This show graces my evenings with good humor, wit and encounters with celebrities. It takes me back to a more civilized time when good manners and proper etiquette ruled the day.
Rage and extremism have distorted our times. Family dinners make a huge difference in so many ways. Everyone ate together back then. A lot of learning went on at the dinner table. Attention spans were longer as a result. Greed and warfare have had repercussions too. A different time.
I worked with Ms. Ashley a few years ago. Being a huge fan of WML and having seen most of the episodes because of this TH-cam account, I was excited to bring up this episode when we had some time alone together. Not surprisingly, she couldn’t remember a thing about being on the show, as she had made so many TV appearances over the years. I mentioned how I was a big fan of Dorothy, and while she said some pretty derogatory things about Dorothy and her column, she did say that Dorothy had a sister, Eleanor, who she thought was very nice and very smart and happened to be her husband, George Peppard’s agent and very close friend. I thought that was an interesting bit of information.
@@onaluna2519 I can’t remember the exact word she used, but it was a harsh insult to Dorothy’s intelligence followed by a condemnation of her column. I was surprised, because while I knew celebs weren’t fond of her column, I didn’t think she was viewed as unintelligent. I thought she was praised for her work as an investigative journalist aside from her gossip column.
Elizabeth's reply to Dorothy's guess about her being a columnist was very telling. Elizabeth didn't like the idea and Dorothy apparently was a little taken aback and hurt which was understandable since Dorothy was a columnist. This was while the panelists had there eyes covered.
Norman Bates tended to obscure all the other fine work Perkins did on stage and other non-Hitchcock non-horror films. He was involved in two rather memorial WMLs -- the 1960 episode where Arlene had her eye in a sling and one of the contestants was a large Arkansas lady justice of the peace and in which Dorothy dominated just about everything. the 1961 episode where he and Debbie Reynolds and Martin Gabel were all guest panelists and the mystery guest was Dorothy Kilgallen returning to activities from her hospitalization.
I did as a small child. I was a wonderfully low tech world where people cared about appearance and family mattered.Mothers were homemakers, literally. It was possible to raise a family on one paycheck. That made a difference.
I haven't seen a mystery guest get up and leave so abruptly after the game ended for quite some time. Usually they stick around and chat a bit about what they're up to.
What's My Line? Not memory -- research. It's Vahan who remembered who the contestants were -- but ask away! (Hey -- how'd I get italics?!!) [edit: That whole sentence in the parentheses was in italics until I submitted the comment -- but now it's not.]
Elizabeth originated the role in "Barefoot In The Park" that Jane Fonda would play in the movie, opposite Robert Redford (who had originated the role on stage with Ashley). Clever how the panel finally figured it out that she had left a play that was still running rather than appeared in a play that had closed!
She made it clear with only 1 guess to go that the show was still on and she stopped disguising her voice. She wanted to be recognized. The best MGs are more secure and are fine stumping the panel and winning. The insecure MGs don't want people to think they are other than big stars that can't be guessed.
@@preppysocks209 She was defending Barefoot ... It was a smash hit. She must have left the show to do The Carpetbaggers, also a huge success with costars Peppard, Carol Baker, Alan Ladd and numerous other first-tier stars. She had already gotten nine nos and would have pitched a shutout if not for Dorothy's unintentional (?) snub.
After all the years and programs, I am amused that the long-time panelists ask if a response is a "yes" or "no" during the MG segments when they can hear Mr. Daly say either "that's x down and x to go", which he says after a "no" answer, or he moves on to the next panelist without saying anything else besides the panelist's name when the answer was a "yes".
Forbes is a city in Dickey County, North Dakota, United States. The population was 53 at the 2010 census. According to the United States Census Bureau, the city has a total area of 0.25 square miles (0.65 km), all of it land.
@@3seven5seven1nine9 I don't think under the terms that they use, grass would be considered alive. Farm products like wheat for example, are alive, but not on What's My Line. Alive would, I think, apply only to animals.
To guess Elizabeth Ashley's identity, the panel could not identify her by recognizing her voice or by naming a movie star who was in town at the time. They succeeded based on Arlene's detailed knowledge about the plays that were on Broadway.
Sometimes I get the feeling that the contestants are looking at the panel like they are from outer space when they ask (all the time!) questions like are you on the ground when you perform your service. I guess if you haven't seen the show much or do not pay attention then that sounds pretty weird.
Sprongo But not surprisingly so. And anyway, so what? I've looked at things from the past seeming more formal than today for most of my life. What's new?
I was right. I made a comment a number of episodes back that Arlene was NOT wearing that beautiful ring of hers on her left hand, but instead was wearing it on her right hand. Wasn't sure if I was not remembering correctly. But here it is, currently she IS now wearing it back on her left hand. Does anyone know what that was about? It was around the time she told Martin to come home, all is forgiven.
@@keithhyttinen8275Or.. maybe she burned or cut her finger or sprained them, and the ring was uncomfortable. Could be a few reasonable explanations. Why do people always want to read something into something, jump to conclusions, and always assume the worse, about people they don't know?
wasnt born till a few decades after this but damn why are these golden oldies so entertaining, compared to today's crap Television game and sketch shows.
I remember, before the Verrazano Bridge was built, being told that the toll would last only long enough to pay off the bridge. No one I knew believed it, and for good reason; politicians never take their hands out of our pockets once they get them in there.
You do know that if there wasn't a toll, you would be paying for more of the bridge's ongoing maintenance (If you lived in New York) even if you never use it?
It is not unusual for a shy person to go into acting to be able express themselves behind the mask of a character in a way that they cannot do in real life. I have read that it was true for Anthony Perkins. It may also have been true for Elizabeth Ashley, a possible reason for her hasty retreat after the end of her segment.
Lois Simmons I don't think Anthony Perkins is particularly shy. He's just not showbiz with a celeb magazine-friendly personality. And he's been vocal on this show before about not seeing himself as a "star". I see him as a theatre professional who happened to veer into Hollywood movies.
That was thought to be the case with Peter Sellers, the reason he could disappear into so many characters. I read an article at the time of his death about how he once was listening to someone giving a speech in his honor and they benignly said, "Who is the real Peter Sellers, anyway?" It was reported that that statement brought him to tears.
Marty O'Connor is also listed online as the owner of the Chicago Owls, a team that played in the Professional Football League of America in 1967. After two leagues merged, they were members of the Continental Football League during that league's final two years: 1968-69. Unlike other episodes were they go into some explanation of how a woman came to be employed in a field that is very male-dominated, there is little to no explanation of how Marty became the GM of a pro minor league football team. Presumably she liked football, had money from other sources and bought teams or paid the franchise fee to join leagues. And "Marty" probably would have been short for Martha or Martina, etc., making it less obvious that she wasn't just one of the boys. The Chicago Panthers were still playing in 1966 as a member of the Central States League. However, the article in which this information appears identifies her as "Mrs" while here she identifies herself as "Miss". Apparently the reporter made the assumption that Marty was following an older convention of identifying herself under her husband's first name (for example, Arlene Francis would sometimes be identified as Mrs. Martin Gabel; therefore Arlene might have been called Marty Gabel). According to another article, the semi-pro Panthers were still being formed at the time of this episode and didn't play their first game until mid-August 1965. To locals, they were known as the Niles Panthers because they played their home games at a high school field in Niles (IL). The article also claims that Marty was the only woman in pro football at the time and that 4,000 people attended their opening game, helped by support from various local industries. I can find no other mention of Marty O'Connor (and I checked under Martha and Martina).
2 observations: 1) This episode has an air date of 11/22/64, which is exactly one year to-the-day after President Kennedy was assassinated (I thought WML aired on Sunday night, but apparently not in 1964). 2) Dorothy Kilgallen did not look well here.
I always thought it cool and interesting how a minor league or semi-pro team could exist in a major town with the same sport. At one time there were several Continental Basketball League teams in major league cities like the Philadelphia Kings, Baltimore Metros, and Detroit Spirits, among others.
That's a very good point. Back when the San Diego Padres were a minor league team, we had semi-pro baseball teams in the San Diego area. But I have heard nothing about them since the Padres went major league.
ghshinn There is (I think it is still there) a minor league baseball team in Brooklyn! Plus the basketball Nets are now The Brooklyn Nets. I get a nice feeling when I hear about sports returning to Brooklyn. I wonder if major league baseball could work in Brooklyn today, provided they had a place to play? Any of you baseball girls want to take a swing at that?
Joe Postove The Brooklyn Cyclones indeed remain a Class A minor league team of the Mets. But no, you will never see the majors return to Brooklyn nor any third team to the broader NYC area for a simple reason. Invading another team's "territorial rights" means a new franchise would have to pay an exorbitant penalty fee to the other teams for the right to play there. The big penalty fee is why the Nets had to sell Julius Erving when they joined the NBA after the merger from the ABA and the New Jersey Devils had to pay a similar one to three NHL teams when they moved from Colorado in the early 80s.
How about the minor league Philadelphia Phantoms, a hockey team coexisting with the Flyers. Of course, overseas, a large city may have several large and rich soccer clubs coexisting with lower division teams that are semipro in all but name.
Chris Barat The Phantoms are no longer in Philly once the old arena, the Spectrum was torn down in 2009, but their existence was a case of them being an affiliate of the parent Philly club. They simply played in the Flyers old arena after the Flyers moved into their new one.
I wondered the same, until I looked it up and found one of the the meanings: the traveling or of transporting goods, such as roads or railroads. "a city providing excellent road and rail communications"
This has been discussed on other videos, too-- it would have been totally out of place for the JFK assassination to have been mentioned even casually on a show like WML. It was light, escapist entertainment.
***** Partly it's just the time capsule element of WML, which obviously encompassed the JFK years. But there's also the Dorothy Kilgallen connection. Whatever one thinks about the various theories on how she died (a topic I discourage being discussed, for just the same reasons as why WML never mentioned the JFK assassination), she *was* legitimately associated with the JFK assassination by virtue of being the reporter who leaked the Warren Commission report before it was supposed to have been made public. There are some folks out there whose interest in WML was spurred by their interest in Dorothy via the JFK stuff.
At the time of this episode, William "Haystacks" Calhoun was a favorite box office attraction in the world of pro wrestling. From McKinney (TX), he stood 6'4" and weighed in the mid-600 pound range. He was more athletic than other super-heavyweight wrestlers at the time. For example, even though "Happy" Humphrey outweighed him by 100-150 pounds, Calhoun usually beat him, often by tossing Humphrey out of the ring and Humphrey would be unable to climb back in within the allowable time limit. Calhoun got his nickname when to demonstrate his strength he tossed hay bales into a high loft on an episode of Art Linkletter's "House Party".
Brilliant...only someone as knowledgeable as Ms Simmons would be aware of "Haystacks" Calhoun...he's the first person I thought of when the contestant's occupation was revealed.
Yes, indeed. Bennett said it irritated the other panelists whenever Dorothy's questions clearly revealed the correct answer, but she would continue a series of round-about questions to get more time on camera.
Bigwave2003 Joe Postove I do think, though, that it's pretty striking how little she does this in the 1960s shows versus in the 50s, when she seemed to do it just about every week.
@@WhatsMyLine Gary, I sent you a text. I have been banned from posting in the FaceBook group until the middle of October. I have attempted to contact two other administrators seeking an explanation, to no avail.
I didn’t know Elizabeth Ashley. You can tell, by her signature, that Elizabeth is her first name, and Ashley is not her last lol. (I looked it up once I guessed that)
@@davidsanderson5918 Yikes! Gender stereotyping or what?Because a performer has an off night she is “menopausal”? 😱So if Bennet has an off night, what would he be??
What's My Line? He also considered vegetables to not have been alive in another episode. To him "alive" meant animals and, of course, humans. Strange bird for such a highly educated man.
@@danielfronc4304 I think John should have had cards at his desk defining categories as reminders to him as to what animal, vegetable, mineral meant. Because vegetation is alive until it is cut off from its source of food. So a Christmas tree, being an evergreen, is alive, but is dead once cut down and decorated in your parlor, even if it looks pretty. But it nonetheless had once been alive. I do think he got himself all screwed-up in his mind concerning animal traits like consciousness or the human trait that plagues us of self-consciousness. John had a good education, but he was not an intellectual by any means. He'd get all confused as to wheether birds and fish were animals. They are part of the animalia kingdom in zoological, biological terms. Should not have been at all as confusing as the several discussions of what worms are a couple of times. One time with a salesman he got all messed-up in saying we don't eat minerals. Of course, lots of foods have mineral content, but that is beside the point and not quite the same thing as eating minerals, just because we ingest them as content within an animal, vegetable food stuff. In fact, we eat one mineral on its own as part of a regular diet all the time: salt. He did need flash cards to remind him of certain basics for consistency, if not accuracy, on segments of WML. It did keep the rest of us alert, though.
"Profit Making" yes indeed. Most businesses don't want to just earn a living, they want to make a Profit or more money than their business costs to run & one of the ways they do it is by charging too much, or $$$ or £££ for items that cost pennies. "Service"? Self Serving.
She manages the Panthers outdoors and has no enclosure??? And it requires no special training? Misleading, too much "No"s". And hay has not ever been alive, but grows?
Sorry she married George Peppard a real selfish person, he caused a big problem on Password Plus with Allen Ludden I remember they had to cancel airing his episodes on that show.
They mixed it up sometimes. On rare occasions, even Bennett would sit somewhere other than his usual last seat as well. Much more often it was the women who switched chairs, though.
Johan Bengtsson In the first few years of the show, I think Dorothy always sat on the outer side and Arlene always sat between the two men on the panel. At some point still in the 1950s, I think, Dorothy and Arlene starting alternating positions every episode. So if Dorothy was first to be introduced one week, Arlene would be first the next week, then back to Dorothy, then back to Arlene, etc. Hasn't it continued that way ever since?
Bennett's the only person who thought Bennett was funny. LOL! There was one excellent wit on that show, and it belonged to the one-and-only Arlene Francis (there was a legitimate reason why she was paid more than the others).
Hay is grass, legumes or other herbaceous plants that have been cut, dried, and stored for use as animal fodder. Under the longtime terms of what constitutes "alive", hay does not qualify. It's been that way for awhile on WML.
That may be, but given that hay has no other constituent components other than dried grass, the ruling was even more absurd than usual (and it's fair to say that their rulings on whether or not something had ever been alive were always rather suspect). Especially when you consider that they go on to stipulate that the product "grows". I'd love to see written down precisely how they defined terms like alive. Maybe there was something in Fates' book?
***** I don't remember anything about it in Fates's book, and I rather doubt that they ever had anything in writing regarding this topic, but there was an interesting clarification about it in a recently posted episode featuring Tony Randall as guest panelist: What's My Line? - Jerry Herman; Henry Fonda; Tony Randall [panel] (Sep 13, 1964). Check out What's My Line?'s top comment for the exact time signature of this clarification. It makes no logical or scientific sense to me at all, but basically the WML "terms of reference" only recognize animal life as being alive. When pressed, they will admit that plants are alive, but when *not* pressed, they will answer "no," whenever asked if something derived of plant life has ever been alive.
The hay topic interests me. While in high school after classes we'd have farmers come in looking for kids to work baling hay. Took advantage of that the most I could since you needed some scratch to take girls on dates. The girls also liked the fact that you became well-developed and muscular. Sorry, getting off track. The hay HAS to grow, so it was alive at some point. Maybe I'm missing something here.
rick charles It's just that my understanding of the rules which govern WML, they do not consider vegetable life in the same category as animal life. Caprious? Perhaps, but a longstanding rule, nonetheless.
Is it just me, but both Bennett and Arlene never seem to change very much from episode to episode, even through the years. Dorothy on the other hand can look drastically different from one episode to the next. Sometimes she looks very elegant, and other times......well...........she sometimes looks like hell
I guess i've seen more episodes because Arlene maybe 1 in 5 episodes looks a bit haggard; of course i'm guessing most of the times due to her having "a few" which she had been known to do but was maybe even funnier at those times ala Ed McMahon
Hay WAS once 'alive'... Look at Arlene at 20.03. Getting a sideways view of the celebrity ? She 'guessed ' correctly....after a few unnecessary questions.
@@RonGerstein Says you. A man. Women weren't allowed to say they found it obnoxious (but have come out in droves to say so, since), and you never had to experience it yourself. So how would you know?
![What's My Line? - Buddy Hackett; Carol Channing [panel] (Nov 29, 1964)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/qQYQOKDnhoU/mqdefault.jpg)
![What's My Line? - Lee Remick; Orson Bean [panel] (Jan 10, 1965)](/img/n.gif)
Always appreciate the respect each has for co workers. Just good people. Love the show.
This show graces my evenings with good humor, wit and encounters with celebrities. It takes me back to a more civilized time when good manners and proper etiquette ruled the day.
Nov. 22, 1963
Me too.
Tony Perkins ‘ wife was killed on September 11th on American Airlines flight #11.
@@leesher1845 really? I can’t find that anywhere.
A friend teased me about watching old shows, but this was an era of class. Love these shows.
Great talent, style & respect back then ...love the old shows
Rage and extremism have distorted our times. Family dinners make a huge difference in so many ways. Everyone ate together back then. A lot of learning went on at the dinner table. Attention spans were longer as a result. Greed and warfare have had repercussions too.
A different time.
They called it the Tiffany network for a reason.
I worked with Ms. Ashley a few years ago. Being a huge fan of WML and having seen most of the episodes because of this TH-cam account, I was excited to bring up this episode when we had some time alone together. Not surprisingly, she couldn’t remember a thing about being on the show, as she had made so many TV appearances over the years. I mentioned how I was a big fan of Dorothy, and while she said some pretty derogatory things about Dorothy and her column, she did say that Dorothy had a sister, Eleanor, who she thought was very nice and very smart and happened to be her husband, George Peppard’s agent and very close friend. I thought that was an interesting bit of information.
Oh, my. What did she say about Dorothy?
@@onaluna2519 I can’t remember the exact word she used, but it was a harsh insult to Dorothy’s intelligence followed by a condemnation of her column. I was surprised, because while I knew celebs weren’t fond of her column, I didn’t think she was viewed as unintelligent. I thought she was praised for her work as an investigative journalist aside from her gossip column.
Elizabeth's reply to Dorothy's guess about her being a columnist was very telling. Elizabeth didn't like the idea and Dorothy apparently was a little taken aback and hurt which was understandable since Dorothy was a columnist. This was while the panelists had there eyes covered.
I binge watch these so much over dinner that I sometimes have to stop and comment! Totally joyful for these videos!!!
Anthony Perkins was an absolute doll baby....... I'm utterly smitten. - Thanks for posting! :)
So true! He was gorgeous beyond word!
@@anchitaroy9126 all his life
I half expected Dorothy to ask the haystack fellow if she'd look funny carrying the product whilst walking down 5th Avenue.
Norman Bates tended to obscure all the other fine work Perkins did on stage and other non-Hitchcock non-horror films. He was involved in two rather memorial WMLs --
the 1960 episode where Arlene had her eye in a sling and one of the contestants was a large Arkansas lady justice of the peace and in which Dorothy dominated just about everything.
the 1961 episode where he and Debbie Reynolds and Martin Gabel were all guest panelists and the mystery guest was Dorothy Kilgallen returning to activities from her hospitalization.
Check out Perkins in the film "ffolkes".
Thank you for your wonderful services!
Who the heck doesn't like What's My Line, and actually gives it a thumbs down ?!?
God knows.
Elizabeth Ashley must have had a cab waiting for her. Off she went. Thanks for the video.
I really wished I lived back in this time period!
No, you don’t. Then you would be old, like me!
I did as a small child.
I was a wonderfully low tech world where people cared about appearance and family mattered.Mothers were homemakers, literally. It was possible to raise a family on one paycheck. That made a difference.
@@jazzfan67 Thank you, young person 💚
Elizabeth Ashley is a goddess, beautiful beyond words
Quite a beauty - very much an Audrey Hepburn look!
Tony is so handsome and polite!
"Oh, my bakin' yak!" ...
Great heavenly days...
The handsome Tony Perkins!
I haven't seen a mystery guest get up and leave so abruptly after the game ended for quite some time. Usually they stick around and chat a bit about what they're up to.
SaveThe TPC I've seen it done with at least three others: Silvana Mangano, Cantinflas, and Ralph Richardson.
Yes, it's odd-- especially since she got no prompting from John. It's as if she was terrified of having to talk normally, as herself!
*****
Ralph Richardson - July 28, 1963; Cantinflas - Sept. 18, 1960; Silvana Mangano - Aug. 19, 1956. Like I said, it's been a while! :)
SaveThe TPC Wow-- what a memory. I may be asking your help, if you're willing, for a certain project I've mentioned previously. :)
What's My Line?
Not memory -- research. It's Vahan who remembered who the contestants were
-- but ask away! (Hey -- how'd I get italics?!!) [edit: That whole sentence in the parentheses was in italics until I submitted the comment -- but now it's not.]
Loved Bennett's "mudder and fodder"! 💕
I wish they would leave the commercials in...the old commercials were cool!
For me seeing a vintage commercial once is interesting, more than that they're as annoying as today's ads.
Bennet's puns are so bad , they are good! Lol
Just went over the Verrazano this weekend, in fact.
Very attractive woman, very different. I have always loved her voice.
lovely , talented actress
Elizabeth originated the role in "Barefoot In The Park" that Jane Fonda would play in the movie, opposite Robert Redford (who had originated the role on stage with Ashley). Clever how the panel finally figured it out that she had left a play that was still running rather than appeared in a play that had closed!
She was also George Peppard's wife. Do not forget that.
Not at the time they filmed this.
She made it clear with only 1 guess to go that the show was still on and she stopped disguising her voice. She wanted to be recognized. The best MGs are more secure and are fine stumping the panel and winning. The insecure MGs don't want people to think they are other than big stars that can't be guessed.
@@preppysocks209 She was defending Barefoot ... It was a smash hit. She must have left the show to do The Carpetbaggers, also a huge success with costars Peppard, Carol Baker, Alan Ladd and numerous other first-tier stars. She had already gotten nine nos and would have pitched a shutout if not for Dorothy's unintentional (?) snub.
I remember Elizabeth Ashley doing all those game shows in the 70s and thought she was a knockout.
After all the years and programs, I am amused that the long-time panelists ask if a response is a "yes" or "no" during the MG segments when they can hear Mr. Daly say either "that's x down and x to go", which he says after a "no" answer, or he moves on to the next panelist without saying anything else besides the panelist's name when the answer was a "yes".
Forbes is a city in Dickey County, North Dakota, United States. The population was 53 at the 2010 census. According to the United States Census Bureau, the city has a total area of 0.25 square miles (0.65 km), all of it land.
Based on the 1960 and 1970 census data and extrapolating, their current population is less than half what it was in 1964.
Hay is a grass. Grass is a living thing.
Hay is definitely dead grass, but you're absolutely right that he should have said yes, since it was at some point alive
What gets to me is that there was even a chance for clarification and they failed to do so
@@3seven5seven1nine9 I don't think under the terms that they use, grass would be considered alive.
Farm products like wheat for example, are alive, but not on What's My Line.
Alive would, I think, apply only to animals.
Joe Postove You are right. I think at least once John has clarified this term of reference.
not In the context of WML
Elizabeth Ashley was so pretty.
To guess Elizabeth Ashley's identity, the panel could not identify her by recognizing her voice or by naming a movie star who was in town at the time. They succeeded based on Arlene's detailed knowledge about the plays that were on Broadway.
They were also successful because of that little hint that Elizabeth gave inadvertently towards the end.
Elizabeth Ashley didn’t stay to talk after they guessed her. I would have liked to know more about her.
_Gloves_ and Chanel-type suit: _soignée._ Missed out on those elegant days.
Sometimes I get the feeling that the contestants are looking at the panel like they are from outer space when they ask (all the time!) questions like are you on the ground when you perform your service. I guess if you haven't seen the show much or do not pay attention then that sounds pretty weird.
Elizabeth looks like Audrey Hepburn
Very much so.
I agree
I clicked on the video because I thought it was Audrey Hepburn in the thumbnail
Or a bit like Carol Lawrence, Robert Goulet's wife.
It all looks so quaint now, so formal.
Sprongo But not surprisingly so. And anyway, so what? I've looked at things from the past seeming more formal than today for most of my life. What's new?
I wonder whether people will look back on the 2020s one day as "how rude and informal".
When women wore gloves!
Arlene looking gorgeous as usual 😍
I was right. I made a comment a number of episodes back that Arlene was NOT wearing that beautiful ring of hers on her left hand, but instead was wearing it on her right hand. Wasn't sure if I was not remembering correctly. But here it is, currently she IS now wearing it back on her left hand. Does anyone know what that was about? It was around the time she told Martin to come home, all is forgiven.
Must have had trouble at home with Martin. She's "available". LOL
@@keithhyttinen8275Or.. maybe she burned or cut her finger or sprained them, and the ring was uncomfortable. Could be a few reasonable explanations. Why do people always want to read something into something, jump to conclusions, and always assume the worse, about people they don't know?
Elisabeth is pretty even in her role as the scary mrs. Emerson in that hospital thriller...
Coma?
wasnt born till a few decades after this but damn why are these golden oldies so entertaining, compared to today's crap Television game and sketch shows.
I remember, before the Verrazano Bridge was built, being told that the toll would last only long enough to pay off the bridge. No one I knew believed it, and for good reason; politicians never take their hands out of our pockets once they get them in there.
"V E R R A Z Z A N O"
You do know that if there wasn't a toll, you would be paying for more of the bridge's ongoing maintenance (If you lived in New York) even if you never use it?
It is not unusual for a shy person to go into acting to be able express themselves behind the mask of a character in a way that they cannot do in real life. I have read that it was true for Anthony Perkins. It may also have been true for Elizabeth Ashley, a possible reason for her hasty retreat after the end of her segment.
Lois Simmons I don't think Anthony Perkins is particularly shy. He's just not showbiz with a celeb magazine-friendly personality. And he's been vocal on this show before about not seeing himself as a "star". I see him as a theatre professional who happened to veer into Hollywood movies.
Ashely took off like a rocket, I was disappointed.
That was thought to be the case with Peter Sellers, the reason he could disappear into so many characters. I read an article at the time of his death about how he once was listening to someone giving a speech in his honor and they benignly said, "Who is the real Peter Sellers, anyway?" It was reported that that statement brought him to tears.
@@dancelli714maybe she had to be somewhere, or catch a night flight or something.
By this time in the '64 season, the Giants were in free fall and the Chicago Panthers might actually have been able to beat them.
sometimes these people just don't know what it is they do..
Marty O'Connor is also listed online as the owner of the Chicago Owls, a team that played in the Professional Football League of America in 1967. After two leagues merged, they were members of the Continental Football League during that league's final two years: 1968-69.
Unlike other episodes were they go into some explanation of how a woman came to be employed in a field that is very male-dominated, there is little to no explanation of how Marty became the GM of a pro minor league football team. Presumably she liked football, had money from other sources and bought teams or paid the franchise fee to join leagues. And "Marty" probably would have been short for Martha or Martina, etc., making it less obvious that she wasn't just one of the boys.
The Chicago Panthers were still playing in 1966 as a member of the Central States League. However, the article in which this information appears identifies her as "Mrs" while here she identifies herself as "Miss". Apparently the reporter made the assumption that Marty was following an older convention of identifying herself under her husband's first name (for example, Arlene Francis would sometimes be identified as Mrs. Martin Gabel; therefore Arlene might have been called Marty Gabel).
According to another article, the semi-pro Panthers were still being formed at the time of this episode and didn't play their first game until mid-August 1965. To locals, they were known as the Niles Panthers because they played their home games at a high school field in Niles (IL). The article also claims that Marty was the only woman in pro football at the time and that 4,000 people attended their opening game, helped by support from various local industries.
I can find no other mention of Marty O'Connor (and I checked under Martha and Martina).
Thanks for sharing.
Elizabeth Ann Cole
known professionally as Elizabeth Ashley
August 30, 1939 (age 80)
Think 1939 is wrong?
Ashley is a Virgo ♍
What a talented / skilled lady she must have been.
Love Arlene's dress and hairdo!!
Are some episodes lost from early November, or was there only one broadcast between 10/25 and 11/22/64?
2 observations:
1) This episode has an air date of 11/22/64, which is exactly one year to-the-day after President Kennedy was assassinated (I thought WML aired on Sunday night, but apparently not in 1964).
2) Dorothy Kilgallen did not look well here.
This WAS a Sunday night; JFK was murdered on Friday, November 22, 1963; one year later, thanks to LEAP YEAR, 1964, that date would fall on a Sunday!
@@kennethlatham3133 You're right. I wasn't thinking about 1964 being a Leap Year. Good catch.
How does Elizabeth Ashley do it? In look and sound she reminds me of a cat.
soulierinvestments A very pretty cat too..
I always thought it cool and interesting how a minor league or semi-pro team could exist in a major town with the same sport. At one time there were several Continental Basketball League teams in major league cities like the Philadelphia Kings, Baltimore Metros, and Detroit Spirits, among others.
That's a very good point. Back when the San Diego Padres were a minor league team, we had semi-pro baseball teams in the San Diego area. But I have heard nothing about them since the Padres went major league.
ghshinn There is (I think it is still there) a minor league baseball team in Brooklyn! Plus the basketball Nets are now The Brooklyn Nets. I get a nice feeling when I hear about sports returning to Brooklyn. I wonder if major league baseball could work in Brooklyn today, provided they had a place to play? Any of you baseball girls want to take a swing at that?
Joe Postove The Brooklyn Cyclones indeed remain a Class A minor league team of the Mets. But no, you will never see the majors return to Brooklyn nor any third team to the broader NYC area for a simple reason. Invading another team's "territorial rights" means a new franchise would have to pay an exorbitant penalty fee to the other teams for the right to play there. The big penalty fee is why the Nets had to sell Julius Erving when they joined the NBA after the merger from the ABA and the New Jersey Devils had to pay a similar one to three NHL teams when they moved from Colorado in the early 80s.
How about the minor league Philadelphia Phantoms, a hockey team coexisting with the Flyers.
Of course, overseas, a large city may have several large and rich soccer clubs coexisting with lower division teams that are semipro in all but name.
Chris Barat The Phantoms are no longer in Philly once the old arena, the Spectrum was torn down in 2009, but their existence was a case of them being an affiliate of the parent Philly club. They simply played in the Flyers old arena after the Flyers moved into their new one.
How does a toll collector have anything to do with communications ?
I wondered the same thing. Maybe back then "communication" had also the meaning of "transportation" or "physical access"?
I wondered the same, until I looked it up and found one of the
the meanings: the traveling or of transporting goods, such as roads or railroads.
"a city providing excellent road and rail communications"
Dorothy, standing sideways, reminds me of a '57 Chevy with that hairdo.
It was the first anniversary of JFK's assassination. I'll bet there were memorial shows on the network, but not a word here.
Thanks, David!
This has been discussed on other videos, too-- it would have been totally out of place for the JFK assassination to have been mentioned even casually on a show like WML. It was light, escapist entertainment.
***** Partly it's just the time capsule element of WML, which obviously encompassed the JFK years. But there's also the Dorothy Kilgallen connection. Whatever one thinks about the various theories on how she died (a topic I discourage being discussed, for just the same reasons as why WML never mentioned the JFK assassination), she *was* legitimately associated with the JFK assassination by virtue of being the reporter who leaked the Warren Commission report before it was supposed to have been made public. There are some folks out there whose interest in WML was spurred by their interest in Dorothy via the JFK stuff.
***** Hear, hear!
***** You think maybe Bennet Cerf had something...nah, never mind!
When I was a kid, I would watch this show just to see Bennett Cerf’s introduction of John Daly.
At the time of this episode, William "Haystacks" Calhoun was a favorite box office attraction in the world of pro wrestling. From McKinney (TX), he stood 6'4" and weighed in the mid-600 pound range. He was more athletic than other super-heavyweight wrestlers at the time. For example, even though "Happy" Humphrey outweighed him by 100-150 pounds, Calhoun usually beat him, often by tossing Humphrey out of the ring and Humphrey would be unable to climb back in within the allowable time limit.
Calhoun got his nickname when to demonstrate his strength he tossed hay bales into a high loft on an episode of Art Linkletter's "House Party".
?
Brilliant...only someone as knowledgeable as Ms Simmons would be aware of "Haystacks" Calhoun...he's the first person I thought of when the contestant's occupation was revealed.
A rare moment when Elizabeth Ashley isn't smoking a cigarette as seductively as she does!
I think Dorothy in searching for the needle in the HAY, was hogging the camera again!
Yes, indeed. Bennett said it irritated the other panelists whenever Dorothy's questions clearly revealed the correct answer, but she would continue a series of round-about questions to get more time on camera.
Bigwave2003 Joe Postove I do think, though, that it's pretty striking how little she does this in the 1960s shows versus in the 50s, when she seemed to do it just about every week.
Joe Postove
She wasn't the only one. Bennett did it too.
@@libertyann439 Maybe the producers encouraged this behavior, because they thought the audience enjoyed being on the edge of their seats or something.
@@WhatsMyLine Gary, I sent you a text. I have been banned from posting in the FaceBook group until the middle of October.
I have attempted to contact two other administrators seeking an explanation, to no avail.
I didn’t know Elizabeth Ashley. You can tell, by her signature, that Elizabeth is her first name, and Ashley is not her last lol. (I looked it up once I guessed that)
Elizabeth Ashley; my sweeeeet lord.
Wonderfull show and to think that all those people are dead
Elizabeth Ashley is very much alive.
Wish show was in color to see Arlene and Dorothy's dresses
Elizabeth Ashley was sexy in a lot of stuff but I remember her especially for her role in Coma! George Peppard had great taste.
Arlene seems a little sad in this episode. A rare off-night for her.
Don Hailer Menopausal?
@@davidsanderson5918 Yikes! Gender stereotyping or what?Because a performer has an off night she is “menopausal”? 😱So if Bennet has an off night, what would he be??
@@gilliankew manopausal
Elizabeth Ashley was 25 then. WOW, so young
Contestant #2: Hay has never been alive?!? What, is hay manufactured? Made of metal? Oh, John. . . John, John, John.
What's My Line? He also considered vegetables to not have been alive in another episode. To him "alive" meant animals and, of course, humans. Strange bird for such a highly educated man.
@@danielfronc4304 I think John should have had cards at his desk defining categories as reminders to him as to what animal, vegetable, mineral meant. Because vegetation is alive until it is cut off from its source of food. So a Christmas tree, being an evergreen, is alive, but is dead once cut down and decorated in your parlor, even if it looks pretty. But it nonetheless had once been alive. I do think he got himself all screwed-up in his mind concerning animal traits like consciousness or the human trait that plagues us of self-consciousness. John had a good education, but he was not an intellectual by any means. He'd get all confused as to wheether birds and fish were animals. They are part of the animalia kingdom in zoological, biological terms. Should not have been at all as confusing as the several discussions of what worms are a couple of times. One time with a salesman he got all messed-up in saying we don't eat minerals. Of course, lots of foods have mineral content, but that is beside the point and not quite the same thing as eating minerals, just because we ingest them as content within an animal, vegetable food stuff. In fact, we eat one mineral on its own as part of a regular diet all the time: salt. He did need flash cards to remind him of certain basics for consistency, if not accuracy, on segments of WML. It did keep the rest of us alert, though.
It might be interesting to see an elitist “snob off” between Bennett and Dorothy.
I see. Have a nice day.
Isn't Elizabeth Ashley in Russian Doll?
the question asked of the haystack mover "was it ever alive" was INcorrectly answered "no"
On this show they have set the precedent that “being alive” meant animal life. It’s a long standing term of reference within the show.
Ashley is a very good actress.
"Profit Making" yes indeed. Most businesses don't want to just earn a living, they want to make a Profit or more money than their business costs to run & one of the ways they do it is by charging too much, or $$$ or £££ for items that cost pennies. "Service"? Self Serving.
Arlene said, "Does it come up out of the ground".
Yes... that means it has been alive.
Yet three times he said it has never been alive ? Hmm...
Anthony Perkins is so boyishly gangly that he is always stretching out his long legs and long arms - even over the back of Dorothy's chair.
She manages the Panthers outdoors and has no enclosure??? And it requires no special training? Misleading, too much "No"s". And hay has not ever been alive, but grows?
Could it be that it’s the one year anniversary of JFK,s death?
Dorothy is falling apart at the seams here.
"From New York" It's so refreshing to have entertainment not from California
Sorry she married George Peppard a real selfish person, he caused a big problem on Password Plus with Allen Ludden I remember they had to cancel airing his episodes on that show.
Ashely took off like a rocket. No 15 second interview ? I didn't like that, disappointing.
Arlene just seems as if she didn’t get much sleep (A little tired)?
She was always so busy.
Segments were clipped out ..
What did those consist of that were deleted?
COMMERCIALS
Elizabeth Ashley Born: August 30, 1939 (age 84 years), Ocala, Florida, United States
Andrew Garfield reminds me of Tony Perkins
Anthony Perkins is a dreamboat.
Jack's product WAS alive!
Several subject questions were falsely answered - so far by both the first two , and the attendant host.
Why did Dorothy and Arlene switch seats? I thought Dorothy always sat on the outer side?
They mixed it up sometimes. On rare occasions, even Bennett would sit somewhere other than his usual last seat as well. Much more often it was the women who switched chairs, though.
Johan Bengtsson
In the first few years of the show, I think Dorothy always sat on the outer side and Arlene always sat between the two men on the panel. At some point still in the 1950s, I think, Dorothy and Arlene starting alternating positions every episode. So if Dorothy was first to be introduced one week, Arlene would be first the next week, then back to Dorothy, then back to Arlene, etc. Hasn't it continued that way ever since?
Seems to me like there were an awful lot of single older women on WML.
Back then, most of the younger married ones were housewives.
Elizabeth Ashley did her under Dorothy's skin!
How odd, she jumped up and and left.?
Nobody laughs Bennett jokes more than Bennett!
Bennett's the only person who thought Bennett was funny. LOL! There was one excellent wit on that show, and it belonged to the one-and-only Arlene Francis (there was a legitimate reason why she was paid more than the others).
@@watchman1178 he was a riot!! A very funny guy.
Dorothy is my favorite
Am I the only one here because of Russian Doll??
Hay is grass, legumes or other herbaceous plants that have been cut, dried, and stored for use as animal fodder. Under the longtime terms of what constitutes "alive", hay does not qualify. It's been that way for awhile on WML.
That may be, but given that hay has no other constituent components other than dried grass, the ruling was even more absurd than usual (and it's fair to say that their rulings on whether or not something had ever been alive were always rather suspect). Especially when you consider that they go on to stipulate that the product "grows". I'd love to see written down precisely how they defined terms like alive. Maybe there was something in Fates' book?
*****
I don't remember anything about it in Fates's book, and I rather doubt that they ever had anything in writing regarding this topic, but there was an interesting clarification about it in a recently posted episode featuring Tony Randall as guest panelist: What's My Line? - Jerry Herman; Henry Fonda; Tony Randall [panel] (Sep 13, 1964). Check out What's My Line?'s top comment for the exact time signature of this clarification. It makes no logical or scientific sense to me at all, but basically the WML "terms of reference" only recognize animal life as being alive. When pressed, they will admit that plants are alive, but when *not* pressed, they will answer "no," whenever asked if something derived of plant life has ever been alive.
The hay topic interests me. While in high school after classes we'd have farmers come in looking for kids to work baling hay. Took advantage of that the most I could since you needed some scratch to take girls on dates. The girls also liked the fact that you became well-developed and muscular.
Sorry, getting off track. The hay HAS to grow, so it was alive at some point. Maybe I'm missing something here.
rick charles It's just that my understanding of the rules which govern WML, they do not consider vegetable life in the same category as animal life. Caprious? Perhaps, but a longstanding rule, nonetheless.
SaveThe TPC Sorry, I've again been denied to give you a +, so here it is : *+!* ;)
Is it just me, but both Bennett and Arlene never seem to change very much from episode to episode, even through the years. Dorothy on the other hand can look drastically different from one episode to the next. Sometimes she looks very elegant, and other times......well...........she sometimes looks like hell
+Galileocan g She had a huge face which didnt help her looks.
I guess i've seen more episodes because Arlene maybe 1 in 5 episodes looks a bit haggard; of course i'm guessing most of the times due to her having "a few" which she had been known to do but was maybe even funnier at those times ala Ed McMahon
Hangovers
LMFAO "Bakin' Yak..."
Yes, a spoonerism and a pun in one phrase. Nicely done.
Hay WAS once 'alive'...
Look at Arlene at 20.03. Getting a sideways view of the celebrity ? She 'guessed ' correctly....after a few unnecessary questions.
Hay was never alive?????
Well hay is dead grass
Everyone talks about how respectful and kind everyone was… except that obnoxious catcalling every time a woman under 40 walks onto the stage.
Catcalling was considered a compliment
Listen. "Catcalling"wasn't complimentary sometimes
@@RonGerstein Says you. A man. Women weren't allowed to say they found it obnoxious (but have come out in droves to say so, since), and you never had to experience it yourself. So how would you know?
I didn't hear cat calling. I heard the whistle. But that's not out of line. That's a compliment.
"Hay" is dried plants, which have been alive. Were plants not considered alive in 1960s?
Nope.Ok?
It must be highly offensive to be the secret celebrity and panel not get who you are.