The Good the Best and the Ugly | Choosing a Hand Plane
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2020
- When Buying a hand plane should I get a new or used plane? what should I look for in anew plane, and what price point is best for a new hand plane.
How to chose an antique hand plane: • What To Look For When ...
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The original Stanley irons are perfectly functional with the mouth and cap iron properly adjusted. Vibration is usually the result of the frog being poorly seated. I discovered that restoring a "restored" Bailey. The "restorer" had painted the entire interior including the bedding surfaces for the frog. Cleaning the paint off those surfaces, especially the bits stick in it, made the difference between awful and excellent. Also adjusting the frog forward helped a bit.
Great video brother , nice breakdown . Due to present Covid restrictions the flea market near me has been canceled . This forced me deeper in the woods to scour for tool sources and what a blessing it was . I discovered an old man out in the country who sells tools out his old barn . I stepped in to it and nearly fainted . All I could see was wall to wall old tools . Long story short , I bought a #4 , 5 , 6 ,7 Stanley all in great shape for $20 each . Your videos are the best man . I've learned a ton from you. Bless up Brother !
Oh I love finding those honey holes. so nice!
This was so helpful! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Still a great video. I agree completely. Ive actually been using some antique Craftsman planes made by Millers Falls. They work beautifully. After restored of course. I hot rodded mine with new custom D2 irons, new mahogany totes and knobs, and fresh paint jobs. I found that I love to bring old planes back to life.
I got a Craftsman branded Jack Plane from my dad and it is my go-to for that size of plane. Very well made and absolutely solid, I use it for stock preparation and for my shooting board (with a different straight flat iron). Not sure where mine was made, it was bought here in Canada, but I would get more of similar age without question.
I should really look up who made mine and the actual age of it (at least 50 or 60 years would be my guess as it would of been early in my Dad's carpentry career. He bought it to shave down doors when hanging them.
Thank you for a great video and sharing your knowledge
Wowzer! Thank you for your list of suppliers. I will be back for more and will tell my furniture making chums about your channel (and links).
thanks man. if you ever have any questions please ask. i love to help any way posible.
You forgot one of the best aspects of getting an antique plane...you get to go antiquing! Oh yay! 😊🤣❣️ Better yet...go with your boys! 😊
LOL so true!
Yeah
Fantastic, James! Thanks for all the tips! 😃
Here in Brazil it's really hard to find a Veritas or Lie Nielsen plane and when you find... Damn, it's expensive! 😬
The last time I saw a Lie Nielsen it was 3300 reais, which would be around 647 dollars...
The old Stanleys are easier to find and you can find them already renewed for around 200 reais, about 39 dollars. Not a bad deal, actually.
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
thanks man. ya south america and the midal east are crazy hard to find them. I have heard it is even easier in Africa.
A couple years ago Stumpy Nubs did a video on making a Harbor Freight plane into a scrub plane. I thought that was a great idea and went ahead and did that. I'm very happy with it in that role, and the price is perfect.
Right on. I have one of the very same.
i purchased the custom veritas about a year ago with a high angle frog. That thing is worth every penny.
Right on. got to love that beast!
I bought the $50 cad. Spear & Jackson from Amazon and with some tuning it is a good smoothing plane for the price paid. It’s still a $50 low end plane made in India. My Stanley/Bailey #4 (Canadian made 1947/48) purchased second hand for $100 cad. works well with very little work but is light in hand to the S & J. My intent is to move up into a quality modern plane, the Veritas Custom line, probably a #4 or 4 1/2 and eventually add a # 5 1/2 . Considerably more money than the second hand or inexpensive planes but I am anxious to go down that rabbit hole. I find hand planing challenging but relaxing. 🇨🇦👍👨🦳Interesting that the Taytool #4 looks identical to my Amazon cheapie. Probably made in China or India and aren’t really a bargain.
I picked up a "Kobalt 9.75-in Bench Plane" from Lowe's for about $35 last fall. It has been working great since. It looks very much like the Stanley and the TayTools planes you show. You might want to have a look at it for comparison to bring up the quality on low-end "big-box" store planes. Great content by the way! Keep 'em comin!
Yup. I have used them in the past. The one I had was trash. But most reports I get on it are 50/50. Some get a great one and some get boat anchors. If they would work on the quality control it would be great.
Very informative video, thank you.
my pleasure!
I bought a super cheap plane half a year ago, it was junk for smoothing but ended up as a pretty decent scrub plane, luckily I already had an Ulmia which we got for 5€ at the flea market which I was just too lazy to get working and after sharpening it and stuff it's a really great smoothing plane, so for now have the planes that I need
After searching the local market for a fixable couple of planes I bought a pair of grizzly planes. The #4 needed very little setup, maybe a half hour, the#5 needed substantially more and I use a scrub iron in it for the most part. Both have performed adequately in the tasks I've put them to. Oh, bought a small set of the narex chisels, what a joy to play with! Now if I can just figure out how to hold my ancient 1/8" chisel to hone it consistently I'll be a happy old curmudgeon. Hope your mother in law is doing well and all of you stay safe.
Old Stanleys are hard to come by in the PNW. I have three Bears-the smoother, the jack, and the jointer. Grizzly doesn't use the Stanley numbering system, but they're pretty decent updates of the 4, 5, and 7. I put Hock irons and chip breakers in the smoother and jointer, spent a couple of hours each dialing them in, and love 'em. I also have Narex chisels, and have yet to reach their technical limits. I recently got a set of the Narex cryogenic chisels, haven't completely bonded with them yet. You don't have to cough up a lot of money to get users.
here is an old video on sharpening thin chisels. th-cam.com/video/xyjR-8uNR8I/w-d-xo.html I know a lot of people that really like their Grizzley planes. if they worked on their quality control they would be in a lot more houses at that price point.
Great information.
Vintage Dunlap and Craftsman planes can be found on Ebay that are very nice and affordable. I have a few and are great to use.
the stanley plane is probably the best long-term user of the bunch. The modern premium planes are a bit overweight and the perfect milling of the sole makes the friction from them quite a bit worse.
I started using hand planes several years ago and restored three Stanley planes: two #5s and a #3. Your comments about the time commitment to getting these planes on working order is accurate: it takes hours for each plane. None of mine had sides 90 degrees to the sole even though the soles are flat. I have been looking for a shooting plane and ordered the Taytools #4 after viewing this video last week. I had tried one of the cheaper versions previously - lots of quality issues and unworkable. I returned it. Same thing happened with the first Taytools’ #4. Decided to give it a second try, requested a return and replacement, and the second one I received is as good as the one in your review. After only having to flatten the back of the blade and hone the edge, the plane did a marvelous job on a piece of maple. Looking forward to years of use. Thank you for a very helpful review.
Sounds about right. Interestingly enough the idea of having the sole flat to the side is a new one. It used to be something that was not very important. almost all antique planes are out of alignment because no one checked that historically. If you need to use a shooting board the lateral adjuster will take care of any angle problems because it's not the measurement from the sole to the side that's important it's the measurement from the side to the iron.
A few years ago when I had almost no money, I bought a Harbor Freight $12.00 stanley knock-off. I couldn't get that thing to work. Diad all the things everyone said to do to set it up, no shavi hs of any kind, not one. Several tube makers showed many of the fUlts with this plane, and showed how to fix them. But they used $10,000 equipment and Ll I had was sand paper and a granite block, and a heap Rotating sander. Did what I could. Over a couple of years, I put about 300 hours into this plane trying to make it work. I succeded. It took its first shavings last weekend and when it did, it was then time to move up and geta better plane. I just received it today. Over 3 hours into set up and it was whittling down the crookedness of a 2×4.
I chose a Taytools #5 for its versitility. The price from Taytools was $99. Amazon wanted $119.00. There isn't a whole lot of descriptio on this plane. It's a bailey platform with the screw on the lever cap i stead of the snap down lever. It has a 2" wide blade like a #4 so blades are interchangeable.
Because I speent so much time rebuilding the hf #4, I was sensitive to the many aspects of a plane. With a critical eye, I addressed each issue I found.
Back ip a bit..it was beautifully packaged. Double boxed and the plane rested on a bed of memory foam. When I removed the lever cap, it was thick and heavy! The lateral adjustment has some heft, too!
It did have some sharp, jagged edges on different parts, but it doesn't any more! Areas that should be flat, really are, now.
The sole was flat. I didn't have to do any work on it. The sides 90° from the sole. The sides were hollow, they aren't any more. The edges were nicely rounded. But the blade...omg was that thing pathetic! Hollow from tip to tip along the edge. It took forever to get a sharpenable edge. I Even had to resort to an oil stone for the first time ever...but first, I had to flatten that! Then had to give everything a bath with a scrub brush to cut the oil co tamination on the diamond stones. You know how things can cascade.
It's done, works beautifully and I can't wait to see what she's like with some premiere blades and chip breaker.
Most people wouldn't do the work I did, but I didn't want to skip anything and have to troubleshoot a mystery such as with the hf.
"Tae" is beautiful, functional, inexpensive and appropriately priced for her class. And yes, "Tae" is her name. If you get a good blade from the start, the setup time will likely be a whole lot less.
I've never seen nor used a premium plane such as lei neilson/veritas so Ll I can compare with is sow's ears and a few stanleys. Tae has the potential to be an excellent plane with a new dress and some tlc.
Ok my no 33 is my scrub plane from the start. Tay tools are renranded to grizzly tools, I have a grizzly jack that I love. Took some prep work but it works and feels good in the hand. One sorce of older planes you did not cover was sargent planes, lower cost compaired to have and were made in the same plane count as stanley. Yes I have a sargent 24" plane that was at $100. to my door just saying. Good video.
Would love to see you make a new tote for your #62.
I have some LeighNielsen planes- very nice. I have some old Bailey’s and Stanley’s that I have rehabbed that are nearly as good as the LN. Garret Hack has a very nice plane book that shows you how.
Frank
There are a world of high quality hand planes built around the world, Clifton from the UK and H.N.T Gordon from Australia are superb and worth every cent.
thank you
I inherited two planes when starting my woodworking hobby (two jack planes from my dad, a Craftsman and more modern Stanley Bailey) and after watching Wright videos and Paul Sellers videos started to look for a small smoothing plane. Got super lucky without realizing it and found a used #4 vintage Stanley hand plane, in basically perfect shape. Came with the box and only needed a bit of cleanup to get flat/shiny. Lovely tool and got it for a steal. I was recently given a modern "blue" Stanley Bailey Jack Plane which seems to be pretty poorly made, but even that worked well as a scrub plane with a wider mouth and dedicated curved iron.
At this point I would love a large jointer but I've never seen them for sale locally, and they are quite expensive new. I think getting another smoothing plane would be a good idea, but just need to figure out what brand to get. Honestly the new Union X-Plane 4 1/4 seems like it could be a great choice, and unique. The only thing is I may want a smoother with a wider iron though. Always another tool one needs to get!
The world does not have enough tools lol. There's always another one.
not sure if your still monitoring this void, but last week my Veritas CUSTOM 41/2 hand plane arrived. I ordered it over a year ago, and the only reason I didn't cancel the order after 6 months was THE DAMN FENCE shipped three days after the order! My first plane was their bevel up Jack. I went Veritas since I really didn't know squat about hand planing, so why on earth would I handicap my learning with a tool that might not be "right". Glad I did because understanding sharp, blade alignment, mouth opening, taking fine shaving vs "making verneers", etc. would have driven me back to power tools a LONG TIME AGO!
I'm becoming a STAUNCH believer in buying the best quality you can FIRST.
Thanks man. have fun with it. glad it finally arrived!
James, I know you love your Veritas plane BUT I have tried both Veritas and Lie-Nielsen and have found for a smoother the Lie-Nielsen to be better. As far as a low angle plane, the Veritas is better. Thanks for listening. P.S. Please try the Lie-Nielsen smoother and you'll see and feel the difference.
Thanks. I actually used to own a LN smoother. And I've used them quite a bit in other shops. They are very functional and very good, but I still prefer the custom personaly. Now I prefer the LN over the standard veritas, but in my book nothing beats the custom.
I have read somewhere, I believe on lumberjocks blog, that the Rockler bench dog planes are made by tay tools. I have their #4 1/2 and #5 1/2 planes. Haven't used them yet as I'm still trying to find a place to set up a shop.
I believe they are made in the same factory. though I do not know for sure. then bench dog planes have more brass and other things to make them a bit shinneyer, but that ads to the price. great user planes!
I’ve been working on a set of Stanley’s for a few years now. I have several duplicates and I find it amusing how two of the same model can “feel” quite different. I’ve also bought a few clunkers; restoration planes that maybe couldn’t be saved. Usually get some parts out of them though. Some Frankenstein creation planes in my future.
so true. every plane has it's own personality. got to love a good frankenplane
I have come to the same conclusion . I like an Australian copy to the Stanley called "Turner" and I buy several in the size I require keep the one I like and put the others back onto eBay .
That Taytools one looks identical to the Axminster Rider no 4. I bought one about a year ago for about 130€ and I have liked it very much. I just wish that the lever cap on it would have an actual lever on it instead of a screw.
I found it interesting that the expensive Veritas tote, even on camera, was visibly inferior to that on the Taytools. I've used a #1, #3, #5, and #7 and two block planes for the past 35 years, but in retirement I'd like to get a fahncy #4, just because. This video gave me some ideas; thanks!
My first hand plane was the HF #33 and other than the iron needing sharpening way more often than my Stanley planes, it worked. I still have it and it's about perfect now other than the softer iron. Flattening the sole took me all of 20 minutes and that's all I really had to do aside from the usual flattening/sharpening the iron. I bought a new-make #5 jack plane from HD online and I had to do more work to that one to get it right than the HF plane... I wasn't happy but now that it's done, it's beautiful (make a new tote & knob, the plastic tote actually broke mid use on mine). I got a new-make Stanley 4 1/2 from Amazon UK Global and it also needed a lot of work to get it true although the iron is surprisingly better than the one from my jack plane.
My newest addition that I actually just received yesterday is a Stanley #7 Type 14. The 90 year old plane that I don't have to fettle anything on. I sharpened and honed the iron and already put it to good use. The sole came dead flat, the jappaning is waning in some small spots but it works and works well. I actually used the Wood by Wright antique tools page to find the dealer and it was half the price of what I could find on ebay and in better condition.
Sweet. I am glad to hear you like it. the times I have used my HF 33 it only holds the settings for a couple minutes and I have to twerk it.
glad you found the site useful. i will try to keep them coming.
I bought that hf #33 about 15 years ago for under 10 bucks. My first planes were a crappy buck #5 and a little block plane (around 35 years ago). I still use that block plane - the Buck was chucked. My hf #33 just needed to be sharpened and set - haven't done anything else in 15 years to it. On my bench right now is that #33 that I use as an all around bench plane and a vintage Stanley #4 as a smoother. I don't use rough sawn lumber so I don't need a proper scrub or fore plane. At last count, I have 25 hand planes - I only use 3 at the most.
Got the standard set of rehabbed Stanley Bailies that we have all loved for years. Then I got a new Wood River #5 that I am considering marrying. Now you show me an upgraded high tech super soldier? I just cant!
You mentioned that Veritas doesn’t want to go with the Stanley/Bailey design. Half of their line are planes the have similar looking planes with the 45 deg frog but with a Norris adjuster which I like. The Bailey requires disassembly to make frog and mouth adjustment. An adjustable mouth on many good planes made today have this sliding adjustment, even my little Stanley block plane that I purchased years ago has it. Lie Neilson still carries a copy of the Stanley but are made to a much higher standard of quality with the use of modern technology. You definitely pay for it and the name brand.
A watch out for those Boat Anchors!
I busted up laughing when you said that hahaha
I have a taytools 5-1/2, and like it much better than all my metal bodied planes, with the exception of my Grizzly #5. From what ive seen on youtube, i lucked out on the Grizzly. Seems most people who review them, compare them to harbor "fright" junk, but both my taytools and grizzly planes came to me in sharpen-and-go condition. The only Stanley I ever owned that was sharpen-and-go is my old #6, not a prewar, but pretty old.
come to think of it, the Taytools plane iron took only about 2 minutes to flatten the back of the iron, maybe 3 or 4 minutes for the grizzly's iron, both done on medium-fine grit diamond stones
Having one hell of a time finding fairly priced antique planes. So I think I'm gonna end up with the taytools 5 1/2 jack, followed by the 7 then the 4, assuming they're as good as they seem to be. Thanks for the work here
A plane is about as good as the user until you get to a point where, like the big box example in this video, nothing you can reasonably do will improve the tool to compare against a decent one. Even the mid-low Bailey pattern planes can be fettled and modified to work properly so long as you're willing to put the time in to ensure it works well.
The Taytools 5-1/2 is a sweetheart of a plane, I was just out turning gossamer shavings in the garage (despite being unheated and only 20°f in there)
I also upgraded my old Stanley #6 with a Taytools iron, a vast improvement.
I've got a stanley sweetheart and have attacked the handle with a rasp, file and sandpaper. Now as good as a LN plane I have. Might wanna try that James????
Yup I did that to my other one. But I keep this one normal to show for videos.
There's no doubt there are some great planes available now, I have a little Lie Neilsen block plane which I use more than any other tool but my favourite is my Clifton Nº5 made here in the UK (biased I know). If you really want to save up for a hand plane though, lookup Karl Holteye's Norris type infill planes - a Nº5 used to be around £6K, you would be frightened to use it.
oh ya there is a class of planes that are well beyond premium planes. Karl Holteye is defensively in that class.
If it's any help, the blue Stanley is a Type 20 made between 1962 and 1967 (at least, here in UK) - because they were the only ones...well, you know...painted blue! As far as I am aware, it represents maybe the last of the true 'vintage quality' - or rather - 'designated standard' Stanley Bailey types. I have slightly newer #4 and #4+half that are black but still retain that vintage quality (1967 to maybe late '70's, with less signage on them) and for reference, I call them Type 21's, even though that designation never existed, as far as I know. Later 'types' introduced plastic handles and a mouth so wide you could drive a herd of cattle through them (mid to late 1970's onwards), so I guess they must be Type 22...!? 😐
You weren’t kidding about the Premium planes. I think I’m more an antique and restore kind of guy.
I got the vintage stanley Bailey no 4 for $3 bucks at a garage sale!
And then there are people like me who live in a tool desert. My area in Colorado is too modern for old pioneer planes, too old-fashioned for hi-speed internet or reliable cell service, too sparsely populated for lumber yards, and too sparsely forested to find any wood other than pine, fir, and red oak. Just yesterday I made up a list of every antique dealer, pawn shop, tool retail, and even army surplus store in my local area and I found not one plane, not even junk to take a blade from, except from Harbor Freight. Craigslist has only two listings for planes in the massive area that I'm part of, both of which are over a hundred mile drive just to look at. And when I check your website for locating tools, it's a 300 mile drive to the nearest point on the map. So buying online is basically a necessity, and I'd rather not start my woodworking journey by spending six months buying four or five antique planes before I find a good one.
ya that is not an easy place to find tools. Have you contacted the Rocky Mountain tool collectors? www.rmtc.org/
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I did not know they existed. Thanks for the link, I'll check into them. It'll still probably be painful to reach them physically, as I live basically smack in the middle between Denver and Salt Lake; 300-some-odd miles to reach either one. But at least this gives me a relatively local group to look at.
ya you are in a tough place. no fun!
I like it
I have a nº4 with the same break in the handle. And I'm waiting for the new blade because there are a lot of vibrations and I thought it should help. The blade is very used, bent, and thinner due to restorations. Hope that works and I can feel the same joy the people seem to have with them finally.
And my nº6 is like your Taytools. Maybe they're from the same factory with a different brand? They're too similar in every detail. The thing with that is you don't have to worry about guessing the problem with vibrations and spend more on a new blade that costs more than the plane itself... But I only have one antique. I'll continue trying, maybe with a nº5.
If you are having problems with vibration you may actually want to check the fit of the iron to the frog. Most of the time that's actually the cause. A thin iron actually doesn't create that many vibrations. That's a bit of a misconception that has become a common myth.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Thanks! I didn't hear the myth, I was just guessing wrong. hehe. Most likely you're Wright and that's the problem. I've just realized how bent it is, not making good contact with the frog. It's very worn-out anyways. I'll see if there's a way of straighten up with my limited tools, tho.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo With the new iron making good contact with the frog, it's solved. Hurray!
A 4 Stanley can do as good of a job as a Veritas! It was tough seeing Stanley being compared to harbor freight haha
So true. they are amazing planes. there is a reason most of mine are stanleys.
Not sure if you can put Taytools and Woodriver in the same class because they just aren't! I own both and my Taytools #5 came close to being in the boat anchor category. It makes an okayish scrub plane - nothing else. My Windriver 4 1/2 is a jewel. That being said I also have a Taytools medium shoulder plane that while ergonomically isn't the greatest it functions beautifully.
interesting. all of them that I have plated with were top notch work horses. I have had on and off experience with woodriver. but there are hundreds of both out there. there are going to be bad apples in every batch.
Is the Taytools frog and blade adjustment based on the Bailey or Bedrock? Have you seen the Busy Bee plane?
I've bought three really cheap planes as a project through lockdown and got them working to a fair standard but more importantly kept an old man occupied . All plains come as a kit not a tool .
Interesting that you put out a plane video in the week that William Ng did
great minds. lol
Looking at the design of the Taytools plane, especially the frog adjustment, I would say it's from the same factory in India that makes the Grizzly (and others). Rex Krueger did a good video about these Indian planes and they're actually pretty decent, though they do require some tuning up. I have a Grizzly #5 and it's been great.
Yes. That company makes them for a bunch of different people. But they have a lot of different options you can pick from and so a lot of the different companies have the cheaper options or the more expensive options. For instance, the ones that grizzly gets are cheaper but are a little harder to set up and often have more problems with him. There is Tay tools tends to pick the slightly better options. But that means you pay more.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo yeah, of the two that Rex compared, the Grizzly was the better one 🤷
Hi James! Not to harp about one you didn't discuss, but have you used any Wood River planes? I only have antiques and have considered some new planes for gaps in my collection. Rob Cosman says they're great or as good as Veritas/LN but without the cost. Seems too good to be true and he also works with them on their design. Curious for a second opinion. Thanks and great video as always!
Yes. I generally consider those to be at the very top end of the mid-range planes. they're not quite as good as a Lee Nielsen but they are very good. But if you take treat them right they will work perfectly for you for the rest of your life.
@@WoodByWrightHowToThank you for your input!
Haa, I wish vintage planes were more common in my area. It took months to find the no.4 that I found for $3.
Also I wish I had jumped earlier on TayTool's 5 or 5 1/2 planes on Amazon before they ran out. I dawdled too long waiting on a family member to find my grandpa's. Which I think might either be a no. 5 or 6 if my dad's vague descriptions on it's length is correct.
If I'm too slow on the Grizzly, then I might have to bite the bullet on either paying 120 more for a WoodRiver no. 5 or wait another month or two for the supply to hopefully stabilize a little on the other ones.
Great video!
Thanks man. It can be a chore. Have you looked at the map I have on handtoolfinder.com I've had a few people who can't find anything near them and then look at the map and find several places within a few miles. I had one person who lived within three miles of one of the largest tool meets in the West for years and didn't know it. But there are a lot of places around the world where they just don't exist.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo
I have! It''s a handy map.
The nearest marker is about 40 miles north of me, which isn't too bad if I leave early enough. Looks like a weekend trip is in order in the coming months!
Let me know what you find. I like to keep the map up to date if you find different things from what I have been told.
James, do you have any discussion about setting up your brand new Taylor Tools #4? :) Mine has something sticky all over it. Not certain where to start with it.
They come with a coating of long term anti rust. You can wipe it off with most any thinner or cleaner. I did a video about setting one up for smoothing. Here it is. th-cam.com/video/M_PfYRUOl58/w-d-xo.htmlsi=nSJDCLpXkPqFwP6D
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Thanks!
Up here in canada there's only 15 dollars difference in the price in a wood river #4 and a veritas number 4. Custom is a little more expensive
Ya veratas is a good bit cheaper up there. I love crossing the border for that.
Nice summary James, thanks! I've been wondering about Taytools, especially their No. 7. Oh and one other option on the premium side would be Clifton but they're even more money than Lie-Nielsen.
One other option for the budget conscious are the wedge style EC Emmerich wood planes (the Primus versions are closer to Lie-Nielsen/Veritas in price). I have their smoother, jointer, and moving fillester and have had good results with them all. I actually find I get better results with their moving fillester than my Stanley 78. Totally different learning curve but MUCH less expensive than a premium plane. I've also seen that Infinity Tools carries a line of adjustable wood planes that are relatively inexpensive but I've only seen them online. Just a though for anyone reading this.
Thanks again!
Ya I would put the Clifton in the above premium category along with some of the infill makers and others. I do love the EC planes. But I wanted to compare apples to apples in these.
I'd gladly run a rockwell C on all the irons. I have a calibrated tester, if you need. Id love to donate to the data mine!
sweet. where are you at? feel free to send me an email. I would love to talk. JamesWright@woodbywright.com
Are hand plane sizes universal? Like, is a #4 the same across Tay Tools, Stanley, Union, etc?
generally yes. When someone refers to a hand plan size they're referring to a specific size of plane not a model of Stanley. However there are a few companies that have different model numbers they're still referred to by their Stanley size.
so where do they gtl brass come in? pretty yes but worth getting?
The big thing is the weight. Some people like the heavier plane.
04:38 Oh my.. James: *"Gesundheit"*
10:02 But James: The question here, really is: which brand is *higher* 'high end' [in the sense of the *ultimate superior paramount* high end, you know..]?
the best fit and finish planes of all time are probably. www.sauerandsteiner.com/
the best functioning planes of all time are probably. www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/tools/hand-tools/planes/bench/72531-veritas-custom-number-4-and-number-4-1-2-smooth-planes
A note. high end plane Clifton out of England I have them and they are very good. But hell I am just a person on you tube, so open your mind and have a look at them. In context I collect planes wooden right through metal 50 ish hand planes from many makers veritas, Lie Nielsen, Falcon popes, Stanley's period planes to modern, Luban Muginfang, etc. cheers from Tasmania
Have you tried any of David Eckerts planes ?
I've got all of the above you've mentioned ,I seem to have a plane for a while the get rid tho and try something new , some are hard to get rid of tho and some I wish I never got rid of 😂
I picked up a falcon pope 5 1/2 needs a new tote , I'm waiting on some ringed gidgee coming from Aus to make it with, the Falcon pope aren't common here in the UK, they seem identical to a millers falls , really well made .
@@williamn01 No, don't have any in collection. Will do some research on them and see where it leads. Cheers
@robinalexander5772 I've ordered a few , so I will let you know how they are , think will take about 6 weeks or so .
@@williamn01 let me know if you could what they are like to use. Cheers Robin
@@robinalexander5772 Will do Robin mate when they arrive 👍
James I just found a Smoother, looks like a stanley no 3. No Pat dates or markings other then one word "BELMONT" the iron. Any tips on identification websites?
Belmont is a different plane making company. They did make Bailey pattern planes but they also made replacement irons so you could have one of their irons in Stanley. Usually though Stanley has the name cast into it. Unless it was one that they made for hardware stores to rebrand. Feel free to email me some pictures I'll be glad to take a look at it. Usually one of the best ways is to post them in the wood by right hive mind group on Facebook. Or in the unplugged woodworkers group on Facebook. There are a lot of knowledgeable people there.
thank you! I will check out those groups
What do the different colors on the map represent?
If you're referring to the map on handtoolfinder.com They are referring to different types of locations. Some of them are antique stores that have been known to sell hand tools some of them are hand tool only stores some of them are swap meets dedicated to hand tools and there are a couple others. There's a legend over on the left side that should show you what they all mean.
thumbs up for the burp :)
LOL missed that one int he edit!
Has anyone else tried Faithful planes. Got a 5and 6 but cap irons do not match up with blade hole slot. Way too much gap means very difficult to line up and stay lined up. Everything else seems quite good. Flat base, 90 degree sides, reasonable blade metal.
Yeah, I went down that route when I got into hand tool working, and got a new Faithfull #4, #5 and #6 for less than 100 € total. They're certainly usable, and they even came with a free learning opportunity on how to restore planes…! 😛 However, one of them had a very bad blade which wouldn't hold an edge, so I swapped it out for a thicker Hock one.
yup I put them into the same category as Grizzly planes. they are the lower end of the decent planes.
I recall buying a Craftsman block plane - probably 40 years ago. The little instruction manual that came with it was entitled “Plane Facts”.
Good info! 3 years have passed. Does this need to be updated?
I don't know what there is to update.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Have the qualities/values of those planes changed? Are there others that are now on the market that are worthy of note? Do any of them come in fun colors (tie-dye, anyone?)? After 3 years, do you still feel the same way about Tay Tools’ planes?
there has not been much change in the market in the last 3 years. hand tools change a lot power then power tools. I still feel the same about all of these. This is not intended to be an extensive comparison. just a couple samples of the hundreds of choices.
Several years ago, when I discovered your channel, I bought a #4, #5, and a #7, all antique Stanley. I had them fixed up real nice and was just about to get serious.
Then hurricane Harvey came and destroyed all my tools. Over $10,000 worth of tools (not to mention nearly everything else I owned, but that's not relevant to the subject at hand).
Fast forward about a year. I make a great deal on some old Craftsman planes of various condition. Out of the lot, I was able to get 7 planes. I ended up with 3 scrubs, 2 jacks, and one good jointer (#7 equivalent) and a good smoother (#4 equivalent).
Fast forward about 8 months. I finally purchase my first higher quality plane, a Woodriver #5 1/2. I love this thing. Excellent plane.
Since then I've grown my collection of Woodriver planes. #4 1/2 (because my hands are large), #6, and a shoulder plane.
I highly recommend Woodriver for someone that wants a step up.
They are great planes. I would put them on the very top end of the budget planes as their price is still affordable
I am curious how a hurricane can destroy a hand plane. Harvey was mostly a rainfall event. I don't see cast iron planes floating away in something like that. Sure they might have gone underwater and gotten rusty. All of my planes were rusty at one time themselves though.
watching this 2 years later.. unreal how I got a Stanley Sweetheart No. 4 around the time you made this video.. the Stanley Sweetheart No. 4 is about 200 bucks now...
I just picked one up at an antique shop a month ago for $20.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo ... wow.. what a find!! I gotta get into some antique shops and some estate sales based on your advice on previous videos.. I haven't been able to find any such deals online..
How does Spear & Jackson Planes stand up in ypure Opinion?
They are good users but will need some work.
I have a collection of stanley planes ranging from a #2 all the way to a #8. My question is: will they serve me as well as a Woodriver? I just kinda don't like spending that kind of money if a good, restored Stanley will do the same thing. What do you think?
Oh yes. A good restored Stanley will treat you just as well if not better than a Wood River. They are phenomenal users.
Learning as I go, brother..learning as I go..
I have both Stanley and Turner but they don't feel or work as nice as my Seigley Ol school planes .
I had the new number 4 Stanley sweetheart smoother. Hated it! Too clunky in the hand. I prefer the vintage Stanleys, or of course the Veritas or Lee Nielsens. I wouldn't touch any of the mid-line stuff. Go vintage, or open up the wallet.
I think I am mostly in the same boat!
Not going to lie I actually have that nasty harbor freight Windsor 33 and I bought it so I could turn it into a very cheap scrub plane and it works but you will spend hours and hours getting it tuned up then it will work great, until the next day and you have to spend an hour retuning it. Fun fact I bought my Stanley 13-404 which is basically the same as the harbor freight thing and I bought it cheaper than the harbor freight model and it works a little better and once its tuned it only takes 5min everyday you use it to get it back into shape for the day. I'm currently looking for an older Stanley or 4 so I can up my game. This video is coming in And my one question: How do you feel about the big box store Kobalt #4? I've been thinking about buying it cause at $30something it's not a super bad price but I've not come across reviews of it that I trust
Right on. The cobalt is slightly better then the HF. but not by much. i know a few people that have one and use it regularly, but most soon go an get an antique after that.
Check out Rex Kruger, he has a video on doctoring a HF plane, it involves removing the adjustment from memory. Regards Jim UK.
@@jlmfoy365 I actually have watched that video and to be honest I tried to use both planes without the screw adjustments and I personally didnt like the way it felt. I found that the adjusters work better for me as long as I tighten the lever cap down as hard as I can. But yeah I like Rex and his woodwork for humans series very educational and helps to prove you can do woodwork without the high priced items. And Rex was the person who introduced me to James, I had a question about a plane and Rex sent me this way, been here since and until James tells me to leave I'll still be here.
Sorry about spelling errors. I have no sensation in one of my thumbs, and only a little in the other. DD gave me a new phone and I struggle with it.
Lets see you use them!
That is what is in most of my videos.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I just wanted to see you work that cheap plane in frustration. I was given one for a Christmas present a few years ago.
Try Clifton planes. Made in the UK, exceptional quality for a reasonable price. Available from Thomas Flinn, in Sheffield, England, or Dictum, very good, made in Germany, available from Dictum Tools.
Don't buy anything Chinese.
The Windsor no33 was actually my very first hand plane and I've done some amazing work with it. I actually still use it to this day for finer work where I can't get my no4 in, and as uncomfortable as the handle is, I've somehow made it work beautifully.
Same here. I bought the Windsor 33 twenty years ago. I paid 9.99 for it. All I've ever done was sharpen the iron and oil the soil. I use it as a smoothing plane. It just ended up that way. Mouth was pretty tight and the iron is pretty hard steel.
Most people think you need ridiculous tolerances (thousandths of an inch) of flatness, then spread wax on the sole that screws up the flatness to a 32nd or more!
You're woodworking - not building the starship Enterprise. You can use a wooden body plane and do just fine.
If you're starting out - start with whatever you can get. If it's a boat anchor - learn what you need to do to get it into working condition. That experience will make you better for it.
If you buy a 400 dollar boutique plane and start using it, you won't understand what "makes it go" until it stops. Then you just might end up making a very expensive mistake trying to "make it go" again.
Thanks for that! Been beating the snot out of a Harbor Freight plane, and tonight I gave up. I will check out the Taytools and your tool finder. That could be a game changer to find a good old plane to get going on. Also Really cool you know Tim Sway. I love his channel, and that is actually what I am doing is building guitars. Both of you rock on
Hi James. Here in Belgium the antique Stanley planes are very hard to find. Stanley's new tools are often of inferior quality and not worth the money. Now I have a planer supplier in the Netherlands who also has Veritas and Lee-Nielsen but also "Luban" which costs about € 150 for a # 4. Do you know this brand, and if so, what do you think of it.
Hi Andre, the Luban plane is from the same factory as Wood River and Quangsheng which I use and find to be excellent. Hope this helps. Regards Jim UK.
right on. I have never used Luban but I have heard they are good planes.
@@jlmfoy365 Thanks a lot Jim.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo Thanks a lot James
Hi! I got on Amazon a corrugated number 3 Stanley, (made in india) for 20 bucks. Do you think it's worth it? Thanks
Ya sounds like a great user.
I did not know Stanley made planes in India. the first plane I ever bought was a Stanley 4C. I got it for $5.
I got 5 antique plates for only 32 bucks!
I bought the harbor freight a couple months ago. As someone with small hands, it is still very unpleasant to hold. I ended up fully reshaping the tote. The wood is very smelly when worked.I ended up turning it into a scrub. The iron is super soft, too the point that I could cut it with dull files. I also own the Taylor Toolworks,had it for almost 3 years now. It has some challenges, but it is still a joy to use. Namely, I recently got around to actually mating the cap and cutting irons. They were very off from the factory, but fifteen minutes of finessing it fixed that. I also have actually replaced the screw cap with an old Stanley one. Just because it’s easier to use, and I like to be able to use the cap to unscrew the iron assembly. I also own a Stanley 3 & a 6. Those planes are for specific tasks, and they do work well, but for general work, I always come back to the Taylor.
I have 2 if those planes. The El cheapo which I am modifying the same way Rex Cruger did, and a Bosch that is almost identical to you're tai tools. Still need to grind that but nose of the chip breaker but I feels so much better than the harbor freight special
Another issue with the harbour freight plane is worker conditions: there's no guarantee of good worker conditions with any plane but at least we know that people have the satisfaction of making something worthwhile with any of the other planes. Most probably in the harbour freight case people are working long, unsafe hours and are under pressure to turn out junk - quickly.
Where on Earth are you finding antique planes for $20?! Thanks to TH-cam plane restoration videos, and TH-cam woodworkers having WALLS of hand planes behind them, prices on antique planes have skyrocketed. It really sucks for those of us that just need a usable hand plane to get some work done.
I've never spent more than $20 for an old plane. But availability depends on where you are. Many places you're not going to find anything at any price.
Check out handtoolfinder.com I find them at meets, antique shops, and garage sales quite often for 5-$20
Here in Australia, I always buy antique stanley planes. The most I have paid for a #5 1/2 is $40. I’m still looking for a #6 and #7.
@@stevenguy3575 that's great that you have that kind of availability. I never knew Stanley made such inroads halfway around the world. Although I am aware that they wanted to. Good on them I guess? 7s are pretty big. I have a 6 and a 606. I paid $20 for the 606. It has some pitting on its sole though. So it's not a collector's unit. I had a chance to pick a 7 up once. I think they wanted $45 for it? Wasn't in mint condition. The only plane I ever bought used in mint condition was a 4. The rest showed varying signs of age.
I have to agree with you on this. I suppose with a lot of patience and a lot of time, you might find deals like that, but a garage sale scavenger hunt probably isn't the easiest way for someone to get started in hand tool woodworking. Even a neglected old No 4 will set you back $50 - $60 these days, but is still probably a better deal than the H.F. one. I'd really like to find a No 4-1/2, but even one in moderate condition will end up going for over $100.
What about a lowes jorgenson plane
I'm currently testing one of those.
Does TayTools ship to Europe?
I believe so.
I have always worked with power tools. I've recently bought my 1st 2 hand planes. Both are WoodRiver planes. One was a #4, which is quite a bit larger than the Stanley #4 you showed. That one was $200. The 2nd was the #5 Jack plane. It's normally about $220. They had a great sale and it was only $165. I'll now save up to get the #7 Jointer Plane. That's $350. I'll be watching for sales.
Sweetness. I love wood river planes! have fun man. they are based on the Bed rock design rather then the Daley patterns so the sizes are a bit different.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I found the reason a little after writing. There was a mistake at the store and I had two #5s. I went in and exchanged one of them. I now have the much smaller #4 and a #5. I'm really happy with the heft and feel of both of them. I am going to keep my eye open for estate sales.
I bought a Stanley boat anchor from a big box store. I hate that thing.
They're not even good as a boat anchor. Too light…
LOL I have several boat anchors in my shop!
Snide remarks?
"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!"
Lol thanks man.
What, no Suaer Steiner planes?
Lol. Those are in the above premium catagory.
Wood By Wright How 2 I thought being that they are made 20 minutes from where I live I might get the 95% locals discount. So far, no reply.
Ta tools planer where can i get one, im in philippines
I don't know of many sources there. But if you go down the list of online sellers many of them will ship international. Handtoolfinder.com
@@WoodByWrightHowTo thank you i will look them up
What I'm noticing is that most hand planes, even what would be considered the lower end planes, are expensive unless you decide to go with big box stores. In my opinion, these aren't even worth a second look as the casting is hit or miss whether it's actually flat and true. The blades are oftentimes even worse and generally don't use the best steel. The only alternative are the antique planes but how often do you find one that doesn't need restoring?
I found one Stanley No. 4 in mint condition once. It wasn't an antique though. Probably only 40 or 50 years old. I've never restored any other old plane I've ever gotten. Cleaned them up so they work, but I would not call that a restoration. That amounts to giving them a spray down with some penetrating oil, taking them apart and wire wheeling the rust off. Sharpen the iron, bed the chip breaker and that's it.
You can find antique planes ready to go are already restored for you from around $60 to $100. Check out the online sellers list on Handtoolfinder.com
Instead of upgrade irons, you should get upgraded chip breakers instead because the old style does not break chips well and leads to more tear out
I always recommend tooltique.co.uk - they sell expertly restored vintage Stanley and Record planes: a No. 4 usually goes for £34 plus shipping, and it arrives set up and sharpened. Look for “Vintage” in the description. Unbeatable price, at least in Europe: they’re based in the UK. They ship to the US and other countries too, but it won’t be cheap.
yup. they are one on the list of online sellers that do great work.
@@WoodByWrightHowTo A great option for beginners, especially in mainland Europe, where you won’t find many old Stanley planes at flea markets. I’ve never seen a single one in Germany, where wooden planes are super common, but the Bailey type metal planes never really made it into people’s workshops.
I bet the folks at bridge city are feeling a little left out...
LOL they are in a whole nother class with those are beyond premium. I would put them in with some of the infill makers like
Wait, you mean those can actually be used? I thought they were only meant for collector's display cases 😁
@@WoodByWrightHowTo I would never buy one. There's a bunch of videos showing the quality isn't even that good on them. I'd buy a Veritas custom or leigh neilsen anyday
I will say the grizzly tools hand planes are hit or miss so I have the grizzly tools number 4 number 5 and number 7 jointer so the 4 came it was my first and was horrible casting and poor adjuster quality’s like it was trash so sent it back and they sent me a new one and it was amazing so then I got the number 5 and number 7 and they both came great now yes I had to watch all your videos on hand planes and spent probably about 3-5 hours on each plane setting it up and some mill file use and some flattening and shaping and then sharpening but they all work great and you can’t find any other brand where you can get the 4 and 5 and 7 for about $200 brand new now I’m getting into restoring Stanley Bailey pattern planes I have bought a few on eBay and still trying to find a number 3 and 4 1/2 then I will have the 6 I want and am about to get into the restoring process lol should keep me busy for about a year every day after work lol!!!
That's right about what I hear from most people. It's almost as if there's no quality control. Sometimes you get great stuff and sometimes you don't. but I agree with you completely they're about the cheapest plane you can get that you can still get usable quality out of.