[Konwitschny] Beethoven: Choral Fantasia Op.80
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- Ludwig van Beethoven (1770-1827)
Fantasia in c minor for Piano, Chorus & Orchestra
(Choral Fantasia) Op.80
Günter Kootz (piano)
Rundfunkchor Leipzig
Franz Konwitschny (conductor, 1960)
IMHO, the Best Performance
00:00 Piano solo
03:28 Finale (Allegro): Piano & Orchestra
04:41 Meno allegro: Main theme
07:45 Allegro molto
09:35 Adagio ma non troppo
11:54 Marcia. Assai vivace
13:53 Allegretto ma non troppo (quasi Andante con moto). Choir entrant
15:57 Presto - เพลง
![[Ránki Dezső] Beethoven: Pathetique Sonata Op.13](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/luo4wUQMwYY/mqdefault.jpg)
Wow ... having heard this it seems like the 4th movement of his 9th Symphony was something he was trying to express his whole life and finally got right in the end.
Obviously. Is this just working for a living or doing what "dad" says. Always a student... until he lost his hearing. Some say due to genetic sysphilus. Who knows? Wake up. Wake. the fucking up and play with the chauffer. If you know what I mean? A Wake. A Wake. Thanks.............. I AM. here.. I am here.... Yes, I AM HERE. CHARLES DAVIS, PEP. UNITED STATES OF CONSCIOUSNESS. PRESENT. and accounted for.
@@charlesdavis7087 based Beethoven schizo
Cool
Or Beethoven was cooking with leftovers.
This is an astounding quality recording for being made in 1960.
Recordings were just fine in 1960 - maybe better because there was no loss due to digital sampling.
I first heard this piece a couple of weeks ago on Cape Cod’s (commericial) classical music station, WFCC, 107.5 FM. I missed the announcement of its title, and tuned in just as (what I now know is) the solo piano introduction was beginning, and I was thinking, “This sounds very Beethoven-ish, but Ludwig Van is never this ‘jocular…’ not nearly moody enough. “
I continued to think it was a very demanding, very upbeat solo piece until (surprise!) the orchestra entered, and I then thought that I had come in in the middle of a piano concerto by one of Beethoven’s contemporaries…
…and then (surprise!) the chorus entered, and I swear I started thinking, “I hope Beethoven lived to sue this bastard, because he ripped him off shamelessly!”
Then the piece ended, the announcer came on and again gave the title, and the composer’s name…
OOPS.
This composition has a very interesting back story, and it explains why, formally, this is like nothing else he ever wrote:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choral_Fantasy_%28Beethoven%29
when you listen to this it sounds simple and beautiful - but then you look at the score and realize the complexity and impossibility of the composition - but yet it's been written by a mortal - or has it - truly the voice of god...
16:23 looks like the "Triumph! Triumph!" Right after Tamino passes the test of fire and water in the magic flute
It really does have a Magic flute vibe about it.
Sheer, sublime beauty...as only the Maestro could write it.
13:29 that chord scared the shit out of me.
First heard by the public on December 22, 1808 this piece was specially composed as a finale to the 4 hour concert which presented the 5th and 6rh symphonies among other pieces. Two centuries later we can barely struggle to wrap our heads around what the audience heard that night, which included severl improvisations by the master.
probably a bunch of dissonant harmonies from an underpracticed amateurish orchestra and an almost deaf pianist who yelled at them all the time because of their playing..
Today's performances are often polished to perfection, which couldn't be further from the truth in his time
Have heard at least a dozen performances, this eclipses them all! Beethoven forever ❤️
This text is from Johannes R. Becher a big writer and later the minister of culture in GDR( east Germany) This Text was written for the world festival 1951.
Only the word "Kraft" is the same in the new and the old text. Recordings on vinyl with the Text from Becher are very rare. But wonderful, wonderful wonderful
Beethoven on paper uses the simplest harmonies and the basicmost way to orchestrate, but on the field it actually is revelead he used them in the most convincing, incisive way possible.
A lot depends on the performers and conductor. Interpretation makes or breaks Beethoven. Sometimes it flat-out rescues him too.
hard disagree. i think beethoven is a lot more lenient on the player than other composers. it all comes down to beethoven structural brilliance for me, and his ability to create so much with so little. beethoven is very solid, even a poor performance of any given symphony, piano sonata, concerto etc. won’t destroy the piece. some composers (schubert, chopin, mozart etc.) are far less forgiving
is it just me or the performance is very clean ? I mean like seriously detailed and perfection ...
You do Beethoven right or not at all. : )
THE music that can take any soul to ecstasy... to the spiritual heights... the emotive content in this piece is absolutely astounding. Wonder what inspired him to write this ...
I heard this was like a practice run for the last movement of the 9th. Brilliant in any case! Thanks for sharing.
THANK-YOU, THANK-YOU, THANK-YOU!!!!! I've always wanted to see the score for this piece and follow along......awesome!
Imagine being at the first performance of this piece, following the 4th concerto, 5th and 6th symphonies, with Ludwig improvising up and down the keyboard......wish I could time travel.
Go to imslp dot org, the Petrucci Library, you can download all the important scores you need.
You know it's on the internet, right?
Incredible!
Beethoven is so amazing...
Perceptive comment, Dominic. There is an old-fashioned air to much of this. Beethoven with his characteristic passing the theme around the orchestra. I only recently discovered this piece at a local performance. One of those "Wow" experiences that only B could produce, that makes you glad you're alive.
This is an amazing performance!
This is at this moment far the best version on youtube! At last a version without a lot of coughing. Thanks!
00:00 Piano solo
03:28 Finale (Allegro): Piano & Orchestra
04:41 Meno allegro: Main theme
07:45 Allegro molto
09:35 Adagio ma non troppo
11:54 Marcia. Assai vivace
13:53 Allegretto ma non troppo (quasi Andante con moto). Choir entrant
15:57 Presto
👍
מגניב(-:
13:25 Allegro - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choral_Fantasy_(Beethoven)#Form
A 3 Minute Piano piece with 10 Minutes finale. Very good 😄
Grandios...! Etwas von Beethoven, dass ich nicht kannte.
It's been ages since I've heard this piece. Thank you.
The theme of the 9th symphony finale can be heard here
I don't understand why everybody is commenting about the piano being out of tune. First of all, I don't hear any pitch issues with any instrument. Second of all, it's all beautiful! Why don't we all just watch and listen, and enjoy?
yes, this often happens with reverb when recording choral works. I recorded this piece with an orchestra years ago and we were in the recording session into the wee hours of the night with the sound technician trying to fix the odd pitches on the reverberations.
Here Beethoven fully flexes his mighty musical muscles. With dazzling inventiveness he effortlessly segues from piano sonata to piano concerto to choral symphony, all with clear structural unity. Our great gratitude to tnsnamesoralong for sharing this awesome score, which when followed along with the music adds further depth to our appreciation of The Master.
Please - everybody - stop writing like this under classical videos. It's disgusting.
@@SelectCircle wdym?
@@SelectCircle Thank you. So many ignorant comments in these comment sections.
@@tr7938 Here we are - well into the 21st century - and woke fanboys are writing with as much pretense as powdered aristocrats from the 18th century - and with no awareness of how ridiculous they sound - as if worshiping media gods is what we're supposed to do - and that's called human progress. ... A pet peeve of mine. : )
Danke! Thank you!
I was looking for a sung version of the Becher lyrics for hours now!
Endlich eine Aufnahme mit dem Text von Johannes R. Becher wunderbar wunderbar wunderbar
this is completely and absolutely awesome... the only thing that it is missing is the big round of applause at the end!
piano was amazing...
16:16 Symphony 9
Belo momento!
yes, the best interpretation !
and- with the wonderful lyrics by Becher.
2:49-3:25 is my favorite piano part :)
it is a great work!Beethoven is a Bigest Greatest!
Love it!
Bravísimo Maestro !!
I’m used to hearing this with the standard lyrics. Somewhat interesting to hear in the “Eastern Bloc” version.
I JUST LOVE THIS PIECE!!! THANK YOU TNS AND LUDWIG!!
can anyone else hear the ode to joy in there?
yes. so obvious
What part?
K222 mozart.. The first ode to joy?
@@AmnhaccodienVietNam 6:37
@@AmnhaccodienVietNam & 14:10 :)
Full of wonder!!
Perfekt!
A 12m40,toute la physique de l émerveillement:le soldat perdu croit pénétrer un parc,il est magnifié par un temple...
Quel naturel a grandir l homme sans le brusquer ni le dépayser,chez le pote Ludwig!
Schmeichelnd hold und lieblich klingen
unsers Lebens Harmonien,
und dem Schönheitssinn entschwingen
Blumen sich, die ewig blüh'n.
Fried und Freude gleiten freundlich
wie der Wellen Wechselspiel;
was sich drängte rauh und feindlich,
ordnet sich zu Hochgefühl.
Wenn der Töne Zauber walten
und des Wortes Weihe spricht,
muss sich Herrliches gestalten,
Nacht und Stürme werden Licht,
bravo¡¡¡👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Lyrics in the score are the 1808 original. The recording has the 1951 version by Johannes R. Becher (who later became a senior official in the communist government of the ex-GDR, as another commenter noted)
Geist und Kraft
Seid gegrüßt! Laßt Euch empfangen
Von des Friedens Melodien!
Unser Herz ist noch voll Bangen,
Wolken dicht am Himmel stehn.
Aber neue Lieder tönen,
Und der Jugend Tanz und Spiel,
Zeugt vom Wahren und vom Schönen,
Ordnet sich zu hohem Ziel.
Wo sich Völker frei entfalten
Und des Friedens Stimme spricht,
Muß sich Herrliches gestalten,
Nacht und Träume werden Licht.
Leben wird zu Lust und Wonne,
Wird zu aller Wohlergehn,
Und der Künste Frühlingssonne
Läßt die Welt uns neu erstehn.
Großes, das uns je gelungen,
Blüht im neuen Glanz empor.
»Friede, Friede ist errungen!«
Jubelt laut der Menschheitschor.
Nehmt denn hin, ihr lieben Freunde,
Froh der Gaben schöner Kunst.
Wenn sich Geist und Kraft vereinen,
Winkt uns ewigen Friedens Gunst.
Thanks for pointing out the discrepancy in the lyrics
This is the 2nd version of this theme that B would later use again for a 3rd time in the 9th Symphony in the "Ode to Joy"(The 1st use being in the 3rd mvt of his Piano concerto #4)
I'm amazed that more musicians/music lovers back then didnt notice the "recycling" of this theme.But,back then,recordings werent available,and concerts were often one time affairs,so I guess its understandable.
Where in the fourth concerto’s third movement is it?
One of my all-time favourite choral pieces. This year, at Tanglewood 2014, 24 august, the BSO and Tanglewood Festival Chorus are performing the Choral Fantasia followed by the Ninth symphony. Quite the heady program!
I know Richard. I was there, and it was a great concert! They also played the 9th symphony at the same concert, which is said to be inspired by this work, and it was truly an amazing experience.
OMG, that's never been done before in 200 years.
AAAAHHHH!!SUPERB!!LOVE THIS : "CHORAL FANTASY"ALL POWERFUL INDEED!!MANY THANKS !FROM(U.K.)
tks !!!
I agree, this is an excellent performance indeed. Thank you very much for the score... very nice touch.
p.s. I'm still partial to Brendel+London Philharmonic+Haiting :-)
sounds like the magic flute, the end of the zu hilfe! zu hilfe!, the lyrical melody of the three ladies
Keep in mind, here, (trying to mediate) some of us are live performers and don't encounter this issue so often, and some of us are studio musicians and really understand this sort of issue. No big deal! This goes for you too, delauge...:)
16:24 This is why I like classical music.
I sang this!! So much fun !!
In the 4th movement we can recognize the melody of An die Freunde in the 9th Symphony! :)
You're totally right.
Here in Brasil, when we listen to this, we thing that Beethoven is the one who had more aproximated to the language of God. Thank's for this, german's people.
Hmmm. I think you ought to have a look at the recent studies of The Magic Flute by a scholar called Jan Assman. You might get a surprise as to Mozart's religious beliefs. Beethoven, on the other hand, was orthodox, and worked himself nearly to the grave doing the Solemn Mass just right, questioning all the priests he knew about the precise meaning of every passage.
my favorite may still be Walter Klein and the (Semkow cond.) St. Louis Symphony, but this is excellent, too. thanks.
The joy of seeing the notes more than makes up for any musicianship deficits. What a bear this must be to play.
I had read of a variant (or more verses) to Kuffner's poem when I was in music school but had never come across what that text actually is. Obviously they are using it here, you're completely correct this is NOT the standard text written in the score.
Please note that they are not using the normal lyrics of the Choral Phantasy, but an alternative version written in the DDR (the Becher-Fassung of 1951). It is not too bad (a message of peace), but I like the original more.
que maravillaaaaaaaa
You said from my heart :)
Günter Kootz. You can see other details in description
A 8m22,toute la physique du basculement!Comme si c'était le vertige qui faisait apparaître le monde nouveau.
This piece was written as the conclusion to a much longer program, including the premiers of his fifth and sixth symphonies (or so I've read on Wikipedia).
I guess you have not checked Kissin recording with the vienna philharmonic during the 1991 new years eve concert... that very recording on laser disc... this very piece, started it all for me.
It just shows you how good these pianists are. The score is complicated is it not?
very complicated
It was just now, that I have first heard this piece, and now I know that this was what Ode to Joy was stemmed from.
It says the pianist in the description! :) The pianist is Günter Kootz.
Broken triad 09:23
Octave accompaniment 16:32
Ending 17:20
Yay i just sang this in chior today
6:58 the best part
Amen.
@Greatheil
See the wikipedia, slash wiki slash Choral_Fantasy_(Beethoven). You can find overthere the full text in German and in English
Johannes Becher wrote the alternate text in this recording. Notably, his text excludes spiritual and religious references.
See staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~naeser/becher.htm for a comparison of the original and Becher's alternative texts.
Good performance but my favourite remains Julius Katchen/LSO/Pierino Gamba. Thanks for the upload.
16:12 Brahms Requiem VI "und Kraft"; pretty identifical
Buen dato crack, pero no te he preguntado
Ma version préférée , mais il faut connaître la version Gardiner avec piano forte !!
I don't know what you mean at all, because I am deeply moved my the presentation of this piece. If I am that moved, the players must have been moved as well. Since this is a recording, of course the "audience" will be unable to view the players' emotion; however, that doesn't mean it's not there. :)
Just wunderful music.
Den Text hat Johannes R.Becher anlässlich der Weltfestspiele 1951 neu verfasst. Er war damals zeitgemäss. Nur das Wort Kraft ist in beiden Texten gleichgeblieben
@brianbela ~ ??? This is an absolutely fabulous composition of Ludwig van Beethoven!!!
What on earth made you say what you said in your comment? Disconnected???? Perhaps you were disconnected, when you wrote this. Listen to it once more ~ and when you still feel the same get in touch with me if you want. Until.
As for the Finale titling (I'm not sure if anyone has answered it yet or not) this piece was written as the end for a massive concert in which 2 symphonies (including the 9th I believe) along with some other pieces were premiered. It was written to showcase all the groups (pianist, orchestra, and chorus).
I don't know how conductors can handle all those lines at the same time.
The "Academy Concert" at Theater an der Wien, December 22, 1808. Symphonies 5 and 6, the Fourth Piano Concerto, a raft of smaller and solo pieces, and the Choral Fantasy as the "grand finale." (Ninth Symphony was mostly composed in 1818, not performed until 1823.)
Ah thank you for the clarification.
Most certainly; I checked 3 sources before posting. Thayer's "Life of Beethoven," (1866-97;) Time-Life's companion volume to the "Bicentennial Collection" of DGG records (1970;) and Wikipedia... and happily, all 3 agree'd as to details of the Dec 22, 1808 concert. I suspect T-L and Wiki actually use Thayer (which is a milestone book in the art of annotated and documented *Biography* in its own right,) as the source, but there was no conflict in details between them. Regards.
Conductors are trained to be very good at sight reading music.
@tnsnamesoralong
I see! :o) Sorry I have no idea about your question at this moment.
BTW,Beethoven would only have been offended by someone "ranking" his music if that person was a non musician,or compared his music with earlier composers--especially Mozart.He hated that.But he had many musician friends,and many of the people he wrote/dedicated pieces to were quite accomplished musicians,and while he didnt always take criticism well,he DID listen to criticism from people he respected.(He completely rewrote "Fidelio" because so many musicians complained about the 1st version)
Hi! Any chance you know where the lyrics of this piece can be found online? (Translated to English could be great)
Allegro motto reminds me of Franck’s symphonic variations.
Il est clair qu'il s'est échauffé pour la IXème. C'était juste une petite séance en salle ou il se limite à sauter à la corde sans forcer. Il se ménage, il est à l'entrainement, mais il tape déjà très dur par moment sur le sac. On perçois déjà le roi du ring de ce qui sera "Froh, wie seine Sonnen fliegen. Durch des Himmels prächt'gen Plan". L'enclume de Bonn prépare le grand match qui le consacrera champion du monde...
Hey, bad Beethoven is better then most of the **** you hear on the radio these days.
Nice performance... but the text sung is the 'censored' version.
Note the location Leipzig and year 1960: the original lyrics might be to 'reactionary' at that place at that time.
why does the end of the first phrase of the choral theme remind of Mozart's Papageno aria in the Magic Flute?
***** Probably because I have good musical taste, and therefore you do too :D
JKJKJKJK XD
Beethoven's music are often inspired by Mozart's. He is Beethoven's early teacher.
Mozart never teached Beethoven, but he was one of his great inspirative figures, like Haydn, Bach and specially Haendel (Beethoven always thought Haendel was the greatest composer ever)
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fantasie_f%C3%BCr_Klavier,_Chor_und_Orchester
The text by Johannes R. Becher and also the text by Jörg Widmann have been deleted from the Wikipedia page and have been "replaced" by footnotes leading to Nirvana. And that in the Beethoven year. Could it be that the word "peace" was used too often ...
Does this piece begin and end with a climax?
Mother of God O.O
Is a period instrument being used here? I am inclined to think so!
Sounds like it. The tone of the piano is simply gorgeous and characterful
I think it gives it an antique sound
Le scherzo de la symphonie 9 n aurait il pas occulté les merveilles que Beethoven a faites ailleurs avec les timbales,comme ici par exemple dans la partie finale ,ou dans l opus 92-IV(ce n est pas du snobisme,c est beaucoup plus court pour désigner une oeuvre du répertoire !).
Ma question est ,: fut il novateur technique dans le traitement des timbales?
Merci.
Has anyone noticed that quite a lot of the time, the words being sung here are different from those printed in the score? I'm curious to know why this was changed, by whom, and what the source for the new words is. Does anyone know anything about this? Thanks.
Bieen fummaaaadaaa! *---*
For some reason I can see Pope Benedict listening to this, sitting and nodding. His Holiness does enjoy music, it just seems right.