Well... there are a bunch of big companies like BBC, 9GAG, Pfizer, Crowdcube, TourRadar, Ratio, About You, PedidosYa using Laravel. PHP is going to version 8.2 this year, november, and it is becoming an awesome safe and robust language like most of mainstreans languages aren't yet (except Java and C++). PHP is becoming faster and faster each version released. There are now the PHP Foundation giving support to PHP future. With Swoole module, it is faster than NodeJS. PHP Will Never Die.
I'm a Javascript dev (Node, Angular, Typescript, RxJS, etc.), where I work I had to learn PHP + Laravel, at first it was something boring and tedious, but once I got the hand of it, I started to see things the other way, Laravel is a nice and pretty opinionated Framework.
I have seen Laravel used in a large international fintech company that deals with near 24/7 extremely heavy loads. Laravel scales very well as microservices cluster. Keeping Laravel and PHP version up to date unexpectedly isn't too bad either.
A very mature and inspiring approach. I watched this assuming it was going to be another PHP or Laravel bash, but was pleasantly surprised. I myself am a heavy user of Laravel, and know that Laravel powers some very large projects, in terms of scale. When talking about BIG development projects I find it is useful to understand what defines big. Are we talking feature set or popularity? If it is about feature set, then any framework is going to struggle just as much as the next when it comes it a lot of functionality, and it is more down the the software architectures that the framework can support that will enable you to scale out a BIG project. 9 times out of 10, it is the developers mindset that causes issue with scale in a project, not the tool itself.
One of my brothers in law are Directors of tech for a pretty large corporation, he also used to work before that for other, pretty impressive multi-billion euros tech companies.. I actually had a similar talk with him about a year ago, not specifically about this or the other programming language, but I was hiring dev for a project, and wanted some insider info about what some things.. he told me something that can apply to PHP as well - first of all most tech companies are trying as best as possible to not publish and completely hide the tech stacks that are used for their most crucial systems, this reason is easy to understand: security. second of all, a lot of companies today try to look like they are "cool" and "hype" so they advertise that they only use the most bleeding edge stacks.. which is not always right, especially not for the larger companies who must have stable, secure and maintainable code. PHP is probably used in MANY huge and dependable projects without our knowledge. heck in one project my company did not too long ago, we had the entire front-end done with the most cutting edge super cool front-end stuff to make it look sleek, but the backend which is the "brain" behind the UI was done in PHP and two other, not so "cool" enterprise level programming languages, the key was stability, maturity and maintainability.. the budget for that project seven-figures and SELF FUNDED, and it was worth way more afterwards
There is some truth here but PHP is frown upon due to the security vulnerabilities. Large enterprises that do system scanning like Qualys, Twistlock, etc that scans your code base and deployment, PHP apps have 40x more publish CVEs. This requires the dev time to comply and fix to pass cybersecurity audits. I rather work on a code base with 1 or 2 CVE showing up on a code scan versus dealing with 40. Jquery is another example of what I avoid for the same reason. It is more work to keep updating to pass these code scans.
I've used Laravel with everything from critical hospital patient systems to large media companies and while people will hate on it almost as a fashion, it's still being used everywhere. The truth is the web stack is a lot more than just one of the languages involved and Laravel is just one piece of a larger software architecture that includes modern front-end languages such as Vue and React as well as a lot of APIs that may well be coded in anything from Python to C#. Pick the right tool for the job and keep in mind your team's core competencies.
PHP is more than capable and that is just a fact. I do think that people often don't use it because either they don't like the syntax, they avoid it just because they have heard bad things, or because it is so so web centric. Other languages (other than JS where you generally just do web but can do both frontend and backend) are good for other areas of software development too, such as desktop, games, iot, ai etc. I would feel limited with PHP (also not a fan of the syntax anyway). Probably why I focus on C# (web, games, desktop, iot, cloud etc etc, and full time employment rather than freelancing gigs, there are twice the jobs in C# to PHP on job sites I look at where I am in the UK) and JS/TS/React (as it is the language of the web).
I think the problem with php for me and again not hating it my best friend loved it and even as someone who loves c++ I hate to admit it has flaws too that make rust better.
my only issue with php when using it as backend for my flutter app, is that it keeps sending the wrong types. even though I've specified an attributes as int/string in the Laravel attribute casting
PHP is a "real" programming language, which even now at version 8 has very little sugar in compare to the more recent "hype" languages.. since it's a "real" language which is super mature, been around for long enough, and is capable of extreme complexities, some devs don't like it - because in order to be really proficient you have a steep learning curve.. most "OG" devs who work with PHP on very large projects, normally started with PHP after writing in other languages (e.g. CPP, Java, etc..) for several years before, so they have an easier way with it. You will also not find many online courses that are really teaching PHP, because it's too hard to create a worth-while course, there is just too much stuff to learn...
@@davideyt1242I learned php on yt back in php 5 coming from c++ and java. It was like a frickin playground lol, int? string? char? who cares just put a $ in front there's ur variable. There are lots of languages that abstract from lower levels, but php's abstractions are my absolute favorite. "10" == 10 ? true "10" === 10 ? false :D
PHP (>=8) has been excellent to me, it has A LOT of builtin functionalities and even if the syntax is not incredible, it can be used with OOP or functional patterns and gets out of the way most of the time, it's honestly great.
I started experiement with web development due to some open source game emulator based in java and mysql. We wanted to build a website with user authentication and some players statistics etc. I had no idea how to code a hello world message. For some reason i stamped across laravel since i searched ready to go authentication frameworks. It was hard at start in order to understand some concepts and php syntax but after 6 months and a lot of reading i managed to create full scale app (still operating to this day). Thanks to laravel i understood many concepts, apis, sessions, payment gateways,cache systems with redis, database relationships and much more. Documentation and community around laravel its awesome. Also you can use it as back end tool only and create awesome websites with react, vue and other js libraries. Your limit is your brain. keep coding
It is with most programming languages, As soon you understand and comprihand the fundaments moving to an diffrent languages wont come with to much hazzle.
I love using PHP and MySQL, I'm now learning Python and microphython, i find it smooth as in transitions. Along with easier to in twine with each other.
The person asking the question mentioned that symfony is big. But I think it's quité the opposite. You can build on the building blocks of symfony as your application grows. But it starts out small and neat. Laravel comes with a lot of stuff which is nice. But can also be overwhelming I think
“You can build on the building blocks of Symfony” Like Laravel does🙃 Stephan also defends PHP, saying that all its bad reputation is from way before and does not apply to modern php, but then falls into the same trap when comparing Laravel and Symfony. “I didn’t look into it in a long time”
About Symfony vs. Laravel: Laravel has a very good Developer Experience, but it is also very opinionated. It is very good to quickly and easily setup a new application and also to get it to production without much hassle. The very moment you want - or need - to do something different than the "Laravel Way", you quickly run into problems. In most projects this should not happen, but I've been there several times in the last few years. The documentation is also very good and it allows even less experienced developers to quickly find their way around, so this is also a plus (if you need this). Symfony on the other hand takes longer to get into, and the documentation is less easy to understand for developers which aren't yet on a senior level. But it is less opinionated and once you get the hang of it, it gives you more ways to tackle your business cases. If you want to switch out business functionality, the documentation about this is extensive (you won't find that part in the Laravel docs). Laravel is actually built on top of large chunks of Symfony and while it makes it easier to do the usual stuff, it sometimes can make it harder to get into the more sophisticated topics. I have way more experience with Laravel and I usually prefer to use it over Symfony, but that's only because I feel like I need more experience. I am sure that the more I'll work with Symfony, the more I'll tend towards using it. To a beginner I would recommend Laravel, but for example to a Java pro who want's to have a look at the PHP world I would recommend Symfony. That doesn't mean that Laravel is just for Juniors and Symfony for Senior Devs. Laravel definitely improved a lot there (and also Symfony improved a lot regarding documentation and Developer Experience). One more thing: Symfony is way better encapsulated, providing you better ways to only use specific functionalities. Try to add the routing and database connection from Symfony to a Vanilla-PHP legacy project and then try to do the same with Laravel components :) I actually tend to use Symfony components there and add a layer of Laravel-like functionalities in-between to make it easier to use, the best of both worlds :D
"The very moment you want - or need - to do something different than the "Laravel Way", you quickly run into problems" - Please give examples. Otherwise your comment is straight up bullcrap. I am using Laravel since v3 to v9.x now. I've worked on Symfony projects and I'm going out and say that Symfony devs just like to smell their farts and overengineer stuff (e.g. Checkout Shopware v5 even v6 code. Absolute dogshit). I'm pretty sure that if you find problem doing something "not the laravel way" and you find issues, it's most likely you have PHP knowledge issues. I just don't see what could be so problematic in a modern PHP application with composer and dependency injection and whatnot. And yeah your "try to do hurr durr on a legacy project" well fuck me, Laravel router is actually "nikic/FastRoute" with encapsulation and that one can DEFINITELY work on legacy codebases. I know because I've done it. And about the database, I'm fairly certain Eloquent ORM can be loaded through composer as a standalone. So yeah, I'm all years about what's so problematic to do in Laravel. It's fine if you don't reply. I've had plenty of people refusing to follow up on their claims ;)
Laravel is the best tool for Rapid Application Development and small projects with Eloquent queries in controllers that is difficult to maintain as the project grows. Symphony is a better choice for large projects with complex business logic and architecture, using the Doctrine Data Mapper with Repository pattern, Unit of work etc., which makes it easier to maintain enterprise level projects.
I've been using Laravel since 4 and love it for all my backend development and as an API for my JS frontends. Also, love the shots fired at Ruby in the last couple seconds lol
People seems to forget that php 8 already mature and laravel does the job generally. Javascript is client-sidely good and hyped, i personally use julia if high performance is needed in the backend.
I work in a fairly large e-commerce company. We mostly use PHP, but none of our ~150 services in our ecosystem use Laravel. All of them, if written in PHP, use Symfony, and I think using Symfony instead of Laravel was a good decision. Maybe it's my preference, but I think Symfony is great, but it has worse marketing. And I think it's easier to decouple the business logic from the framework when using Symfony.
Big project with Laravel : Twitch A smaller PHP framework than Laravel ? Code Igniter. But Laravel provides Lumen which is a lightweight version of Laravel. Symfony is mostly popular in France but Laravel is the most popular PHP framework in the world. Working with Laravel I never faced any limitation. I think that if you find a limitation it is mostly an edge case but Laravel is good for the majority of projects. As you said it will depends on your team skills. You have people doing Java ? Go for Spring. People doing JS ? Go for node. ...
REAL TALK AS A PROGRAMMER FOR MANY YEARS, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO UNDERSTAND THE PROGRAMMING FUNDAMENTALS, BE AS LOGICAL AS POSSIBLE AND MAKE SURE YOU IMPROVE YOUR CODING STYLE FROM TIMES TO TIMES
Based on my experience laravel (php) consume more CPU, i had to serve laravel project in a middle to high server to handle big transaction, lots of concurent user, and deal with large database. When i use java its just need a half server spesification to handle the same thing. But I dont know for sure what is actually happened, maybe my configuration and other things are bad or maybe that's how it is.
Does Laravel maintain backward compatibility? One of the reasons why I code in Vanila PHP is because of backward compatibility. The PHP people really work hard on making sure your old code still works in a new major PHP release. Yes, it takes longer to develop in plain PHP. But it takes less time to upgrade your code and run it on the latest PHP also. If your framework dies, so does your code. An example is Kohana framework.
I code vanilla PHP (5+ years now I think). I have built small dynamic website to full blown E-learning and E-Commerce sites with it. Frameworks are not bad imo. But the main take away should be, programmers need to be flexible and adaptable to what the stack of a project requires. If its more costly and time consuming, pivoting the already available devs or else learn and adapt. Programming is solving problems at the end of the day I guess.
If you where to make that code open source , does it then become a framework? I don’t understand the issue with updates, couldn’t i Just... not update?
I totally agree. There is no inherent reason why Laravel cannot be used in big development projects. In fact, Laravel is a powerful and popular PHP framework that is used by many developers and companies to build robust web applications, including large-scale projects. However, there are a few reasons why some companies may choose not to use Laravel for their big development projects: Legacy Systems: Some companies may already have a legacy system built on a different technology stack, and it may not be feasible to switch to Laravel due to the high cost and risk involved in a complete system overhaul. Complexity: Big development projects can be complex, with many moving parts and intricate workflows. Some developers may feel that Laravel, while powerful, is not as well-suited to handle this complexity as other frameworks or technologies. Scalability: While Laravel is scalable, some companies may feel more comfortable using other frameworks that they perceive as being more scalable, especially if they anticipate rapid growth and expansion. Expertise: If a company lacks developers with experience using Laravel, they may choose to use a different technology stack that they are more comfortable with, rather than investing time and resources in training their team on a new framework. Ultimately, the decision to use Laravel or any other technology stack for big development projects will depend on a variety of factors, including the project's scope, the company's technical expertise, and the specific needs and requirements of the project.
I think the issue is that at some point in time PHP was lagging behind on the other frameworks and every big company when they updated chose to go with other languages and end up using node/java/.. & php for their backends / microservices. Thus making it hard and costly to switch frameworks. I for one if I have the option i'll always go back to Laravel/Lumen/Symfony(ApiPlatform) in a microservices structure, with the frontend being Vue/React/Angular
I use both Symfony and laravel, You already asnwered the question it comes down to the task at hand what you should be using. I tend to use laravel for smaller projects and symfony for larger project (or onces that are more complex).
hello sir, until what age are we, our contribution is still used in startup companies or the coding world. because I am pessimistic about the future of my profession. btw I am currently 27 years old, and my competence is still standard
I saw quite some big project using Laravel. But i think the really big players with big resources tend to avoid using any framework and limit external libraries the most, they rather build their own codebase no matter the language.
I am personally am using trongate, much faster than other frameworks in terms of speed, and has a lot going for it. Once you move away from MVC into HAVC its opens a whole new level of possibilities.
I never understood why people don't like PHP. I started learning it around 2005/6 and fell in love with it immediately. I can't say the same about JS, Python, C/C++ or any other language I've ever touched.
Hello Stefan. This video surprises me. At least in the country where I live (Argentina) Laravel y used a lot for doing backend APIs and monolithic systems. In fact, 2 months ago I've been hired from a software factory here, for working in a project which is a full system for a healthcare company (u "obra social" in spanish). It's very used! And I love to work with it, hehe.
Bad reputation of PHP was not just based on security. It's the community and teaching materials that exist for PHP that are to this day are pretty bad. I still see PHP developers writing code with SQL injections and no amount of saying "PHP 8 is not PHP 3" can help that. So it's good that new courses are written, but it's not spread wide enough yet.
@@zombiekidcrazy I checked it out. Pretty good quality, but in terms of security not much better than I remember. I watched "PDO part 1" that has "SQL injection" in the title, at 15:46 after he spent 5 minutes explaining that SQL injections are bad --- he added one to his code and just randomly claimed that it's secure enough.
Project manager for a big application here. We use Laravel throughout the application and I must say, Nova is an absolute gem for the highly modular/parameter sensitive development my application requires.
A big reason for this, and PHP's fall from grace over the past 10 years can be attributed simply to being a super-rare major language without a FAANG backing (owning) it. Some 15 years ago, once the PHP consortium made it clear that they will not be controlled by F or A, attacks started, and quickly gave rise to the opinion that it is somehow not worth/capable of doing major projects. This has over time trickled down from unicorns and enterprises excluding the PHP option, to now startups that look up to them as inspo, cargo culting to do the same. This combines with the rise of SPAs made it hard to pitch PHP, and many in the community felt that PHP innovation is stagnant. I'm glad its over.
I always create my own framework and the latest one i have made is lightweight and auto syncs the db with the schema defined within each class, and uses classes for urls using a handler with a default system class
most people stay in comfort zone and keep telling how bad is PHP without check or see latest update on other old language but use in new framework like Laravel etc... This is the blind spot for most modern language adapter. i am lucky jump in web programming at MVC structure php (laravel) but not on vanilla php. PSR standard help on manage team with some flexibility on this language.
3:17 - php is the porn of the programming world. Nobody admits it but a lot of people seem to use it. LMAO!!!! OMG! FACTS! This made me laugh so hard. Love your content btw.
Instead of just bashing or promoting random frameworks. You have a pragmatic approach to choosing what tools to use, incredible that this seems like something rare today. I would argue most modern frameworks are completely equal performance wise, there are nuances, but in the end it will be scaled by your hosting choices or architecture. So the framework is about helping you achieve your results quicker and better. That is more a question of preference and not a objective analysis of the frameworks. With that said, i'm on the bandwagon with Laravel and will be there for a while.
I think it's challenging finding people that know how to use it well. Most of the time people look for a full stack dev whose mind split between two different languages JS/TS on the front end and something else on the back end. It's hard to be a true expert when you're jumping between mentalities. But if you're using something like JavaScript full stack, it can concentrate your abilities. And I already know what people are going to say. "Well I don't have a problem doing that." And that's the problem. You're not "the business" and they have to think about risk mitigation and long-term success where you may jump to another job when things get rocky.
Actually the most reflected view on Laravel I ever heard from a PHP dev, thumbs up for that. Modern PHP definitely offers a lot of cool stuff and became way more mature but unfortunately the libraries are still living in the 5.x or 7.0 ecosystem and that also kind of includes Laravel (no support for properties, no use of attributes, use of deprecated magic, ...). Also for big projects the overhead that PHP and Laravel bring can become pretty expensive. On a small scale of a couple requests the overhead doesn't matter but for projects with large scale traffic, the bootup time can result in a lot of unnecessary costs. I personally like a lot of what Laravel as a framework offers even though I kind of hate PHP so I ended up writing an own framework togehter with a couple of friends and colleagues that brings a lot of the paradigms, simplicity and developer friendliness to the Java world. For example: the api of our ORM ended up being pretty much a copy of the Eloquent query builder and the entity models extend a Model class that provides neat save, delete, restore, ... methods instead of using ugly JPA repositories like all the shitty Java ORM's do.
PHP and Laravel is still good. If you want me to choose I would use PHP over everything. But if it about data PHP is not stronger than node or go. So for the API service I will go with one of them. But for the backend it's better and cheaper to use PHP. for frontend it's depend on the business.
Php will never die. Because it will always be an necessity. All framework are really just copied code. Wrapped up 😁. Laravel has Symphony in it right? So many people jump straight from WordPress to laravel and have a heart attack 😳
the problem for me is the speed yeah i could pick and choose to make it faster but i could also just use another framework that's good out of the box. i also find the updates are complete mess yeah big updates are not my cup of tee, more work for me: update documentation, manuals, tests, QA, meetings etc...
php is the best server side language for the web. it has been tested in wordpress, joomla and many more frame works. those taking about react because of npm.. dont understand composer , react is becoming bloated , like all fads that came before .php has been overlooked because javascript has always been fast because it runs on the browser. however with faster servers, and devices. speed will be a thing of the past.
Fun fact... Laravel is built on top of Symfony. Laravel is literally heavier weight than Symfony. Also Laravel largely solves PHP syntax problems by adding elegant syntax/facades/etc. wherever possible. Lastly, complexity isn't determined by amount of pages... single page applications can be complex enough to require Laravel... for a static site it COULD be overkill depending on your needs. Stefan, great video as always!
Symfony*, i don't blame you, i did the mistake during months myself ^^. Also i agree, Laravel for a good part is some "nice looking" API built on top of packages doing the job. Eloquent uses doctrine, Request uses Symfony request and so on.
@@clementseiller1255 I work with Laravel everyday and don't even usually think about Symfony... appreciate the correction! Also, I edited the post so you just look like a crazy person. lol
@@brezanac Well i don't know in details but clearly Laravel framework code use doctrine classes from some stuff. I know very well both of them are quite different, i did used them both during some time. I remember having seen some usage in the laravel framework DB folder, maybe it's not for Eloquent but for other stuff. I will have a look.
One place I recently interviewed with eschewed frameworks in general but were especially vitriolic about Laravel for 3 reasons: 1) It just added too much overhead, their codebase was tuned to squeeze the last ounce of performance out of a system responding to thousands of requests per second. 2) Eloquent ORM produced terrible performance and they needed devs who understood SQL well enough to not rely on an ORM. 3) Too much under-the-hood magic that meant things had to be done Laravel's way rather than the way their engineers thought things should be done. Are any of all those criticisms valid? I guess the first one can be for extremely heavily loaded systems, and the second one is definitely true in my personal experience. I don't like ORMs in general though.
Late to the show and someone probably already said it, but another thing Laravel is very often used for is to build very powerful and robust admin dashboards, customer support microsites and APIs. Of course those projects wouldn't appear as amazing websites on the internet. I've worked with Heineken before (14.6b USD net worth company) and we've created admin dashboards and apis for them in Laravel.
whats wrong with ruby? i'm a developer since 2015 and now iam a teacher at university, but never since then i ever touch ruby. i heard lots of people avoid it even though it's pretty fast according to most people (almost as fast as c i believe). is it because ruby is so complicated?
Drupal > v8 actually relies on Symfony heavily in it's core codebase. There's a large chunk of developers that are going to have familiarity with Symfony on that basis alone.
I prefer laravel of all most php framework because it is easier to integrate other framework like vue.js, react.js, and other js library and other technologies oike wordpress api endpoint just a few to mention. My thump up for laravel
Young nerdlings don't know what is good. They just foollow (foolishly follow) the last trendy tech. Laravel is one of the best framework out there. It's incredibly well done, so simple to use, and one can create something very complex or very simple in no time. Their ecosystem is HUGE. And they have amazing learning and training contents. I'd go for Laravel anytime at any scale.
I have a question for you. I've seen some of your videos. And this video was very interesting on your take of Laravel. I've been building a really large project with Laravel for several years now. Some of the issues I've run into it is the changes from one version to another has created quite a bit of breakage of my platform. My platform has over 2000 routes and going through and fixing them all has been time consuming. The changes to the framework have been rather large and resulted in lost time. This has been my experience with it. However, there has been some pluses as well. So my question to you is what sort of challenges have you run into using Laravel in your projects? One of the things that I would say to a beginner in choosing Laravel is the learning curve. For the most part the best resource is Laracast which has probably the best tutorials for Laravel. However, those tutorials for the most part are paid tutorials. When learning Laravel the documentation on the website didn't really help as much as I would have liked.
Some of my seniors said that php is not perfect for I/O intensive projects, and most of today's systems and startups turn to sync language, and php isn't one of those
@@xtremescript CI released a newer version, and quite honestly, it resembles laravel. CI was my first MVC, then ZEND. But when I tried Laravel, I never looked back.
I would say it and you cannot just not agree with that - its not only about the tool (the application type), it also comes to how a developer/administrator could handle the application type. I've seen large projects done with WordPress. Its mad, right? But it worked, regardless of your judgment.
my first project that i made using php and javascript/jquery then i started to learn and use laravel until now... then i also learned react and vue for the front end
I do not like Python for treating tabs, spaces, carriage returns, line feeds, and so on, as invisible reserved word. I don't like curly braces either. Legacy means, among other things, it works.
I prefer codeigniter laravel is good but slow and too much dependencies and i hate the fact that they release new Laravel version very quickly we built a project Laravel in Laravel 7 and before the project was done the released Laravel 8 came out while we are preparing to update to Laravel 8 they released Laravel 9 its crazy we cant keep playing and updating the company app every couple months, codeigniter is mush better and fast and stable
I was working as a contractor for the last few years. Came across people you said that Laravel sucks, it's slow, it doesn't have this and that. Ok, no judgement yet - contract gets signed, I get to see the codebase and, as usual: 1. They clearly have done poor research as most things they have done custom is already built-in Laravel, so no need to reinvent the wheel; 2. Heavy code in middleware therefore rendering the application slow; 3. Same old PHP slander from the devs when they explain what they try to achieve. Which brings me to the point - how can you slander a technology you know nothing about / have done poor research on? And why are there some standards in place if you cannot follow them? Framework is not a silver bullet for all cases, you have to follow recommendations / standards to not make it slow as well. If the app works fine... why update? If you are so concerned about security aspects / better APIs that came with time, you can do the upgrades. They are quite frictionless... if you have taken precautions. As with every app.
Drumeo/musora is one impressive Laravel project... The only thing I hate about Laravel is that they keep breaking compatibility every release and they release way too often... but I do like the way the framework is convenient and quick to use...
Thanks for the review unlce Stef ! That was wonderful.... BTW i just did some code pushing at GITHUB in my repo .That makes me love rails anyway.Afterall GITHUB is a rails thing.
Well... there are a bunch of big companies like BBC, 9GAG, Pfizer, Crowdcube, TourRadar, Ratio, About You, PedidosYa using Laravel.
PHP is going to version 8.2 this year, november, and it is becoming an awesome safe and robust language like most of mainstreans languages aren't yet (except Java and C++).
PHP is becoming faster and faster each version released. There are now the PHP Foundation giving support to PHP future. With Swoole module, it is faster than NodeJS.
PHP Will Never Die.
PHP is love !
php sucks
PHP is life.
Sad it took me 15 years to see through the propaganda.
php dies every single request ;-)
I'm a Javascript dev (Node, Angular, Typescript, RxJS, etc.), where I work I had to learn PHP + Laravel, at first it was something boring and tedious, but once I got the hand of it, I started to see things the other way, Laravel is a nice and pretty opinionated Framework.
i had the same experience
I have seen Laravel used in a large international fintech company that deals with near 24/7 extremely heavy loads. Laravel scales very well as microservices cluster. Keeping Laravel and PHP version up to date unexpectedly isn't too bad either.
True
I work at fintech organization, we are using Laravel for our microservice architecture
In php req per sec is 40 but in node or deno it is 2000+ on same server
@@puneetsharma1437 laravel swoole
@@renifer483 php raw performance is never issue it cold-start is.
A very mature and inspiring approach. I watched this assuming it was going to be another PHP or Laravel bash, but was pleasantly surprised. I myself am a heavy user of Laravel, and know that Laravel powers some very large projects, in terms of scale. When talking about BIG development projects I find it is useful to understand what defines big. Are we talking feature set or popularity?
If it is about feature set, then any framework is going to struggle just as much as the next when it comes it a lot of functionality, and it is more down the the software architectures that the framework can support that will enable you to scale out a BIG project. 9 times out of 10, it is the developers mindset that causes issue with scale in a project, not the tool itself.
One of my brothers in law are Directors of tech for a pretty large corporation, he also used to work before that for other, pretty impressive multi-billion euros tech companies.. I actually had a similar talk with him about a year ago, not specifically about this or the other programming language, but I was hiring dev for a project, and wanted some insider info about what some things.. he told me something that can apply to PHP as well - first of all most tech companies are trying as best as possible to not publish and completely hide the tech stacks that are used for their most crucial systems, this reason is easy to understand: security. second of all, a lot of companies today try to look like they are "cool" and "hype" so they advertise that they only use the most bleeding edge stacks.. which is not always right, especially not for the larger companies who must have stable, secure and maintainable code. PHP is probably used in MANY huge and dependable projects without our knowledge. heck in one project my company did not too long ago, we had the entire front-end done with the most cutting edge super cool front-end stuff to make it look sleek, but the backend which is the "brain" behind the UI was done in PHP and two other, not so "cool" enterprise level programming languages, the key was stability, maturity and maintainability.. the budget for that project seven-figures and SELF FUNDED, and it was worth way more afterwards
Good point. I do the same … don’t reveal the details of my backend for security reasons.
@@StefanMischook I do know your teaching site is built using vueJS & Laravel
I applaud you. This ^, THIS.
@@akshaygadekar9926 yep, that is part of it.
There is some truth here but PHP is frown upon due to the security vulnerabilities. Large enterprises that do system scanning like Qualys, Twistlock, etc that scans your code base and deployment, PHP apps have 40x more publish CVEs. This requires the dev time to comply and fix to pass cybersecurity audits. I rather work on a code base with 1 or 2 CVE showing up on a code scan versus dealing with 40. Jquery is another example of what I avoid for the same reason. It is more work to keep updating to pass these code scans.
I've used Laravel with everything from critical hospital patient systems to large media companies and while people will hate on it almost as a fashion, it's still being used everywhere. The truth is the web stack is a lot more than just one of the languages involved and Laravel is just one piece of a larger software architecture that includes modern front-end languages such as Vue and React as well as a lot of APIs that may well be coded in anything from Python to C#. Pick the right tool for the job and keep in mind your team's core competencies.
She is tumach laern women bek laern
Yu Ned Marin telefon. Im coll pollis im bek make probllem
Yu wont my cam hospital im wont toking on yu.
Django , Flask , Larvel , Express , Spring...they are all great.
PHP is more than capable and that is just a fact. I do think that people often don't use it because either they don't like the syntax, they avoid it just because they have heard bad things, or because it is so so web centric.
Other languages (other than JS where you generally just do web but can do both frontend and backend) are good for other areas of software development too, such as desktop, games, iot, ai etc. I would feel limited with PHP (also not a fan of the syntax anyway). Probably why I focus on C# (web, games, desktop, iot, cloud etc etc, and full time employment rather than freelancing gigs, there are twice the jobs in C# to PHP on job sites I look at where I am in the UK) and JS/TS/React (as it is the language of the web).
I think the problem with php for me and again not hating it my best friend loved it and even as someone who loves c++ I hate to admit it has flaws too that make rust better.
Lol js for anything outside of web dev.
my only issue with php when using it as backend for my flutter app, is that it keeps sending the wrong types.
even though I've specified an attributes as int/string in the Laravel attribute casting
PHP is a "real" programming language, which even now at version 8 has very little sugar in compare to the more recent "hype" languages.. since it's a "real" language which is super mature, been around for long enough, and is capable of extreme complexities, some devs don't like it - because in order to be really proficient you have a steep learning curve.. most "OG" devs who work with PHP on very large projects, normally started with PHP after writing in other languages (e.g. CPP, Java, etc..) for several years before, so they have an easier way with it.
You will also not find many online courses that are really teaching PHP, because it's too hard to create a worth-while course, there is just too much stuff to learn...
@@davideyt1242I learned php on yt back in php 5 coming from c++ and java. It was like a frickin playground lol, int? string? char? who cares just put a $ in front there's ur variable.
There are lots of languages that abstract from lower levels, but php's abstractions are my absolute favorite.
"10" == 10 ? true
"10" === 10 ? false
:D
PHP (>=8) has been excellent to me, it has A LOT of builtin functionalities and even if the syntax is not incredible, it can be used with OOP or functional patterns and gets out of the way most of the time, it's honestly great.
which IDE you are using would recommend if you don't mind sharing?
@@rahulj2167most use vs code, it's very popular and easy to use
@@rahulj2167phpstorm for me
I started experiement with web development due to some open source game emulator based in java and mysql. We wanted to build a website with user authentication and some players statistics etc. I had no idea how to code a hello world message. For some reason i stamped across laravel since i searched ready to go authentication frameworks. It was hard at start in order to understand some concepts and php syntax but after 6 months and a lot of reading i managed to create full scale app (still operating to this day). Thanks to laravel i understood many concepts, apis, sessions, payment gateways,cache systems with redis, database relationships and much more. Documentation and community around laravel its awesome. Also you can use it as back end tool only and create awesome websites with react, vue and other js libraries. Your limit is your brain. keep coding
I am using Livewire with Laravel 9 and finding it easy to use without too steep a learning curve. Tailwind is quite intuitive too.
Yeah I still wonder about livewire at scale. Not saying it's good or bad. Just haven't seen it.
@@rayaguilar9085 I think the danger can be too many key up/down event triggered server requests but there are options to prevent that
Nathanael Smith with the debounce function. That comes in handing.
@@blessingayokunleakinbamiwa8645 yup lazy too
Just began learning PHP few days ago, and I'm surprised how easy it is when you already know JS!
Php and JavaScript have been based on c
Yea same. PHP is great if you ask me.
It is with most programming languages, As soon you understand and comprihand the fundaments moving to an diffrent languages wont come with to much hazzle.
@@zanza8197 nice
I love using PHP and MySQL, I'm now learning Python and microphython, i find it smooth as in transitions. Along with easier to in twine with each other.
The person asking the question mentioned that symfony is big. But I think it's quité the opposite. You can build on the building blocks of symfony as your application grows. But it starts out small and neat. Laravel comes with a lot of stuff which is nice. But can also be overwhelming I think
“You can build on the building blocks of Symfony”
Like Laravel does🙃
Stephan also defends PHP, saying that all its bad reputation is from way before and does not apply to modern php, but then falls into the same trap when comparing Laravel and Symfony. “I didn’t look into it in a long time”
About Symfony vs. Laravel:
Laravel has a very good Developer Experience, but it is also very opinionated. It is very good to quickly and easily setup a new application and also to get it to production without much hassle.
The very moment you want - or need - to do something different than the "Laravel Way", you quickly run into problems. In most projects this should not happen, but I've been there several times in the last few years.
The documentation is also very good and it allows even less experienced developers to quickly find their way around, so this is also a plus (if you need this).
Symfony on the other hand takes longer to get into, and the documentation is less easy to understand for developers which aren't yet on a senior level. But it is less opinionated and once you get the hang of it, it gives you more ways to tackle your business cases. If you want to switch out business functionality, the documentation about this is extensive (you won't find that part in the Laravel docs).
Laravel is actually built on top of large chunks of Symfony and while it makes it easier to do the usual stuff, it sometimes can make it harder to get into the more sophisticated topics.
I have way more experience with Laravel and I usually prefer to use it over Symfony, but that's only because I feel like I need more experience. I am sure that the more I'll work with Symfony, the more I'll tend towards using it. To a beginner I would recommend Laravel, but for example to a Java pro who want's to have a look at the PHP world I would recommend Symfony.
That doesn't mean that Laravel is just for Juniors and Symfony for Senior Devs. Laravel definitely improved a lot there (and also Symfony improved a lot regarding documentation and Developer Experience).
One more thing: Symfony is way better encapsulated, providing you better ways to only use specific functionalities.
Try to add the routing and database connection from Symfony to a Vanilla-PHP legacy project and then try to do the same with Laravel components :)
I actually tend to use Symfony components there and add a layer of Laravel-like functionalities in-between to make it easier to use, the best of both worlds :D
The major flaw of Laravel is its dependencies (espcially symfony)
"The very moment you want - or need - to do something different than the "Laravel Way", you quickly run into problems" - Please give examples. Otherwise your comment is straight up bullcrap. I am using Laravel since v3 to v9.x now. I've worked on Symfony projects and I'm going out and say that Symfony devs just like to smell their farts and overengineer stuff (e.g. Checkout Shopware v5 even v6 code. Absolute dogshit). I'm pretty sure that if you find problem doing something "not the laravel way" and you find issues, it's most likely you have PHP knowledge issues. I just don't see what could be so problematic in a modern PHP application with composer and dependency injection and whatnot. And yeah your "try to do hurr durr on a legacy project" well fuck me, Laravel router is actually "nikic/FastRoute" with encapsulation and that one can DEFINITELY work on legacy codebases. I know because I've done it. And about the database, I'm fairly certain Eloquent ORM can be loaded through composer as a standalone.
So yeah, I'm all years about what's so problematic to do in Laravel. It's fine if you don't reply. I've had plenty of people refusing to follow up on their claims ;)
@@xtremescript Could you be more polite in your answer though? No need to bash on other developers or frameworks like that. Thanks :)
@@LenCommu polite or not my point stands.
Laravel is the best tool for Rapid Application Development and small projects with Eloquent queries in controllers that is difficult to maintain as the project grows. Symphony is a better choice for large projects with complex business logic and architecture, using the Doctrine Data Mapper with Repository pattern, Unit of work etc., which makes it easier to maintain enterprise level projects.
I've been using Laravel since 4 and love it for all my backend development and as an API for my JS frontends. Also, love the shots fired at Ruby in the last couple seconds lol
This video was really eye opening. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
I use Laravel and its ecosystem, Vue , AWS, MySQL and its a beautiful beast to develop with.
People seems to forget that php 8 already mature and laravel does the job generally. Javascript is client-sidely good and hyped, i personally use julia if high performance is needed in the backend.
I work in a fairly large e-commerce company. We mostly use PHP, but none of our ~150 services in our ecosystem use Laravel. All of them, if written in PHP, use Symfony, and I think using Symfony instead of Laravel was a good decision. Maybe it's my preference, but I think Symfony is great, but it has worse marketing. And I think it's easier to decouple the business logic from the framework when using Symfony.
Big project with Laravel : Twitch
A smaller PHP framework than Laravel ? Code Igniter. But Laravel provides Lumen which is a lightweight version of Laravel.
Symfony is mostly popular in France but Laravel is the most popular PHP framework in the world.
Working with Laravel I never faced any limitation. I think that if you find a limitation it is mostly an edge case but Laravel is good for the majority of projects. As you said it will depends on your team skills.
You have people doing Java ? Go for Spring.
People doing JS ? Go for node.
...
Lol, Twitch use Go language and C++. Php will cry out loud for help when streaming. Lol
Twitch using Typescript for their Frontend. For backend they use Go, C/C++ and Ruby.
Check the code which leaked bros. You ll see that it is Laravel
REAL TALK
AS A PROGRAMMER FOR MANY YEARS, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO UNDERSTAND THE PROGRAMMING FUNDAMENTALS, BE AS LOGICAL AS POSSIBLE AND MAKE SURE YOU IMPROVE YOUR CODING STYLE FROM TIMES TO TIMES
Based on my experience laravel (php) consume more CPU, i had to serve laravel project in a middle to high server to handle big transaction, lots of concurent user, and deal with large database. When i use java its just need a half server spesification to handle the same thing. But I dont know for sure what is actually happened, maybe my configuration and other things are bad or maybe that's how it is.
more cpu and memory usage
You can use Laravel with swoole for big concurrent users. They are powerful combination.
@@ojsojs6004 thanks, i'll try this
Laminas Project - Enterprise PHP MVC Framework (Zend3).
It is used in Big companies for developing modular-based projects.
Bruh, I am still programing on Zend 1 😂
Does Laravel maintain backward compatibility?
One of the reasons why I code in Vanila PHP is because of backward compatibility. The PHP people really work hard on making sure your old code still works in a new major PHP release.
Yes, it takes longer to develop in plain PHP. But it takes less time to upgrade your code and run it on the latest PHP also.
If your framework dies, so does your code. An example is Kohana framework.
I code vanilla PHP (5+ years now I think). I have built small dynamic website to full blown E-learning and E-Commerce sites with it. Frameworks are not bad imo. But the main take away should be, programmers need to be flexible and adaptable to what the stack of a project requires. If its more costly and time consuming, pivoting the already available devs or else learn and adapt. Programming is solving problems at the end of the day I guess.
If you where to make that code open source , does it then become a framework? I don’t understand the issue with updates, couldn’t i Just... not update?
I totally agree. There is no inherent reason why Laravel cannot be used in big development projects. In fact, Laravel is a powerful and popular PHP framework that is used by many developers and companies to build robust web applications, including large-scale projects. However, there are a few reasons why some companies may choose not to use Laravel for their big development projects:
Legacy Systems: Some companies may already have a legacy system built on a different technology stack, and it may not be feasible to switch to Laravel due to the high cost and risk involved in a complete system overhaul.
Complexity: Big development projects can be complex, with many moving parts and intricate workflows. Some developers may feel that Laravel, while powerful, is not as well-suited to handle this complexity as other frameworks or technologies.
Scalability: While Laravel is scalable, some companies may feel more comfortable using other frameworks that they perceive as being more scalable, especially if they anticipate rapid growth and expansion.
Expertise: If a company lacks developers with experience using Laravel, they may choose to use a different technology stack that they are more comfortable with, rather than investing time and resources in training their team on a new framework.
Ultimately, the decision to use Laravel or any other technology stack for big development projects will depend on a variety of factors, including the project's scope, the company's technical expertise, and the specific needs and requirements of the project.
I think the issue is that at some point in time PHP was lagging behind on the other frameworks and every big company when they updated chose to go with other languages and end up using node/java/.. & php for their backends / microservices. Thus making it hard and costly to switch frameworks. I for one if I have the option i'll always go back to Laravel/Lumen/Symfony(ApiPlatform) in a microservices structure, with the frontend being Vue/React/Angular
I had an interview with Apple for a laravel position, it was business critical reporting too
wow.
can we integrate OpenCV python libraries to do facial comparison in Laravel ??? please i need an answer soon
I use both Symfony and laravel, You already asnwered the question it comes down to the task at hand what you should be using.
I tend to use laravel for smaller projects and symfony for larger project (or onces that are more complex).
How about pricing out to build
Came for the wisdom. Stayed for the Ruby joke. You never let us down Uncle Stef! Lol we appreciate all your advice and knowledge! Thank you sir
hello sir, until what age are we, our contribution is still used in startup companies or the coding world. because I am pessimistic about the future of my profession. btw I am currently 27 years old, and my competence is still standard
11:49
"With the exception of ruby of course"
Why?
It's an old joke.
Wow! Great channel. And your commentary shows so much experience. I need to tell a friend now. Great point about the legacy situation.
Which PHP framework is for large projects?
Great to have you uncle stef :)!
I saw quite some big project using Laravel. But i think the really big players with big resources tend to avoid using any framework and limit external libraries the most, they rather build their own codebase no matter the language.
I am personally am using trongate, much faster than other frameworks in terms of speed, and has a lot going for it. Once you move away from MVC into HAVC its opens a whole new level of possibilities.
what about lapis its a framework in lua
love Lua ... Roblox!
Please I need help in understanding if Laravel is ideal for developing a Livestreaming platforms
It’s not
I never understood why people don't like PHP. I started learning it around 2005/6 and fell in love with it immediately. I can't say the same about JS, Python, C/C++ or any other language I've ever touched.
The PHP is the porn of the programming languages line was pure Gold and so true.
I love PHP and use it from back in 2005 when there php 4 was still around. The main feature it is missing is asynchronous calls
Hello Stefan. This video surprises me. At least in the country where I live (Argentina) Laravel y used a lot for doing backend APIs and monolithic systems. In fact, 2 months ago I've been hired from a software factory here, for working in a project which is a full system for a healthcare company (u "obra social" in spanish). It's very used! And I love to work with it, hehe.
Appreciate the comment. Good to know.
Thanks for sharing, Stefan! Do you use Vue with Laravel on Studioweb?
Bad reputation of PHP was not just based on security. It's the community and teaching materials that exist for PHP that are to this day are pretty bad. I still see PHP developers writing code with SQL injections and no amount of saying "PHP 8 is not PHP 3" can help that. So it's good that new courses are written, but it's not spread wide enough yet.
Look up programmingwithgio PHP tutorial
@@zombiekidcrazy because it's as bad or because it good?
@@JLarky his PHP tutorial is the best tutorial for anything ever.
@@zombiekidcrazy I checked it out. Pretty good quality, but in terms of security not much better than I remember. I watched "PDO part 1" that has "SQL injection" in the title, at 15:46 after he spent 5 minutes explaining that SQL injections are bad --- he added one to his code and just randomly claimed that it's secure enough.
@@zombiekidcrazy thank you 💙
Great video and practical answers, Thank you Stef! 🖖🏻
Project manager for a big application here. We use Laravel throughout the application and I must say, Nova is an absolute gem for the highly modular/parameter sensitive development my application requires.
A big reason for this, and PHP's fall from grace over the past 10 years can be attributed simply to being a super-rare major language without a FAANG backing (owning) it. Some 15 years ago, once the PHP consortium made it clear that they will not be controlled by F or A, attacks started, and quickly gave rise to the opinion that it is somehow not worth/capable of doing major projects. This has over time trickled down from unicorns and enterprises excluding the PHP option, to now startups that look up to them as inspo, cargo culting to do the same. This combines with the rise of SPAs made it hard to pitch PHP, and many in the community felt that PHP innovation is stagnant. I'm glad its over.
Oh man, you got me with the title of this. Very measured opinions. Think I'll give you a follow on this ol' platform.
I've been using Yii2 for quite a while now (it has served me well), and am now starting to learn Laravel. Really enjoying it so far.
Me too at work I am using yii2 from last 4 years
I'm working for a Big Company and using PHP works great
'nerdling" - I love it! I'm gonna use it!
Hey there's a typo in the title, it should be "Laravel" instead of "Laraval"
Thanks!😀
I need you to complete the last statement "With the exception of Ruby..."
I always create my own framework and the latest one i have made is lightweight and auto syncs the db with the schema defined within each class, and uses classes for urls using a handler with a default system class
Php is a lot more prevalent in enterprises than people realize, not every enterprise advertises their tech stack.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised.
In PHP 8, the "bad syntax" example you gave is actually much more succinct and human readable. PHP 8 rocks.
most people stay in comfort zone and keep telling how bad is PHP without check or see latest update on other old language but use in new framework like Laravel etc... This is the blind spot for most modern language adapter.
i am lucky jump in web programming at MVC structure php (laravel) but not on vanilla php.
PSR standard help on manage team with some flexibility on this language.
3:17 - php is the porn of the programming world. Nobody admits it but a lot of people seem to use it. LMAO!!!! OMG! FACTS! This made me laugh so hard. Love your content btw.
Thanks!
Instead of just bashing or promoting random frameworks. You have a pragmatic approach to choosing what tools to use, incredible that this seems like something rare today. I would argue most modern frameworks are completely equal performance wise, there are nuances, but in the end it will be scaled by your hosting choices or architecture. So the framework is about helping you achieve your results quicker and better. That is more a question of preference and not a objective analysis of the frameworks. With that said, i'm on the bandwagon with Laravel and will be there for a while.
I think it's challenging finding people that know how to use it well. Most of the time people look for a full stack dev whose mind split between two different languages JS/TS on the front end and something else on the back end. It's hard to be a true expert when you're jumping between mentalities. But if you're using something like JavaScript full stack, it can concentrate your abilities.
And I already know what people are going to say. "Well I don't have a problem doing that." And that's the problem. You're not "the business" and they have to think about risk mitigation and long-term success where you may jump to another job when things get rocky.
The same concepts that laravel boasts can be done in any language.
@@gdolphy Everything other languages do can be done in laravel.
I work for a company that manages over 500 million loans. We use laravel and works well
Actually the most reflected view on Laravel I ever heard from a PHP dev, thumbs up for that. Modern PHP definitely offers a lot of cool stuff and became way more mature but unfortunately the libraries are still living in the 5.x or 7.0 ecosystem and that also kind of includes Laravel (no support for properties, no use of attributes, use of deprecated magic, ...). Also for big projects the overhead that PHP and Laravel bring can become pretty expensive. On a small scale of a couple requests the overhead doesn't matter but for projects with large scale traffic, the bootup time can result in a lot of unnecessary costs. I personally like a lot of what Laravel as a framework offers even though I kind of hate PHP so I ended up writing an own framework togehter with a couple of friends and colleagues that brings a lot of the paradigms, simplicity and developer friendliness to the Java world. For example: the api of our ORM ended up being pretty much a copy of the Eloquent query builder and the entity models extend a Model class that provides neat save, delete, restore, ... methods instead of using ugly JPA repositories like all the shitty Java ORM's do.
Which framework, would love to check it out
"php is porn of the programming world" best line ever :))
PHP and Laravel is still good. If you want me to choose I would use PHP over everything. But if it about data PHP is not stronger than node or go. So for the API service I will go with one of them. But for the backend it's better and cheaper to use PHP. for frontend it's depend on the business.
Php will never die. Because it will always be an necessity. All framework are really just copied code. Wrapped up 😁. Laravel has Symphony in it right? So many people jump straight from WordPress to laravel and have a heart attack 😳
Lmao no
the problem for me is the speed yeah i could pick and choose to make it faster but i could also just use another framework that's good out of the box. i also find the updates are complete mess yeah big updates are not my cup of tee, more work for me: update documentation, manuals, tests, QA, meetings etc...
Why is Ruby NOT used in Big Development Projects? Is it an exception ?
php is the best server side language for the web. it has been tested in wordpress, joomla and many more frame works. those taking about react because of npm.. dont understand composer , react is becoming bloated , like all fads that came before .php has been overlooked because javascript has always been fast because it runs on the browser. however with faster servers, and devices. speed will be a thing of the past.
Fun fact... Laravel is built on top of Symfony. Laravel is literally heavier weight than Symfony. Also Laravel largely solves PHP syntax problems by adding elegant syntax/facades/etc. wherever possible. Lastly, complexity isn't determined by amount of pages... single page applications can be complex enough to require Laravel... for a static site it COULD be overkill depending on your needs.
Stefan, great video as always!
Symfony*, i don't blame you, i did the mistake during months myself ^^.
Also i agree, Laravel for a good part is some "nice looking" API built on top of packages doing the job. Eloquent uses doctrine, Request uses Symfony request and so on.
@@clementseiller1255 I work with Laravel everyday and don't even usually think about Symfony... appreciate the correction! Also, I edited the post so you just look like a crazy person. lol
@@brezanac Well i don't know in details but clearly Laravel framework code use doctrine classes from some stuff. I know very well both of them are quite different, i did used them both during some time. I remember having seen some usage in the laravel framework DB folder, maybe it's not for Eloquent but for other stuff. I will have a look.
@@brezanac Indeed they use it for other stuff but not for eloquent. Thank you for the correction.
Laravel uses some symfony components in it's framework.
One place I recently interviewed with eschewed frameworks in general but were especially vitriolic about Laravel for 3 reasons: 1) It just added too much overhead, their codebase was tuned to squeeze the last ounce of performance out of a system responding to thousands of requests per second. 2) Eloquent ORM produced terrible performance and they needed devs who understood SQL well enough to not rely on an ORM. 3) Too much under-the-hood magic that meant things had to be done Laravel's way rather than the way their engineers thought things should be done.
Are any of all those criticisms valid? I guess the first one can be for extremely heavily loaded systems, and the second one is definitely true in my personal experience. I don't like ORMs in general though.
Late to the show and someone probably already said it, but another thing Laravel is very often used for is to build very powerful and robust admin dashboards, customer support microsites and APIs. Of course those projects wouldn't appear as amazing websites on the internet.
I've worked with Heineken before (14.6b USD net worth company) and we've created admin dashboards and apis for them in Laravel.
unlike what feels like every webdeveloper ever, I am a proud PHP user.
whats wrong with ruby? i'm a developer since 2015 and now iam a teacher at university, but never since then i ever touch ruby. i heard lots of people avoid it even though it's pretty fast according to most people (almost as fast as c i believe). is it because ruby is so complicated?
Just a joke.
There is another PHP framework worth taking a peek at also called Trongate.
looks sure to become popular
Yea, who needs standards
Drupal > v8 actually relies on Symfony heavily in it's core codebase. There's a large chunk of developers that are going to have familiarity with Symfony on that basis alone.
I prefer laravel of all most php framework because it is easier to integrate other framework like vue.js, react.js, and other js library and other technologies oike wordpress api endpoint just a few to mention. My thump up for laravel
Young nerdlings don't know what is good. They just foollow (foolishly follow) the last trendy tech.
Laravel is one of the best framework out there. It's incredibly well done, so simple to use, and one can create something very complex or very simple in no time. Their ecosystem is HUGE. And they have amazing learning and training contents. I'd go for Laravel anytime at any scale.
Codeigniter is an awesome light PHP framework (at least before 4.0), now it's looking more like Laravel with this composer install libraries.
Ow just today I had this question, thank you!👍
“With the exception of Ruby…”. I can fully concur.
I have a question for you. I've seen some of your videos. And this video was very interesting on your take of Laravel. I've been building a really large project with Laravel for several years now. Some of the issues I've run into it is the changes from one version to another has created quite a bit of breakage of my platform. My platform has over 2000 routes and going through and fixing them all has been time consuming. The changes to the framework have been rather large and resulted in lost time. This has been my experience with it. However, there has been some pluses as well. So my question to you is what sort of challenges have you run into using Laravel in your projects?
One of the things that I would say to a beginner in choosing Laravel is the learning curve. For the most part the best resource is Laracast which has probably the best tutorials for Laravel. However, those tutorials for the most part are paid tutorials. When learning Laravel the documentation on the website didn't really help as much as I would have liked.
Some of my seniors said that php is not perfect for I/O intensive projects, and most of today's systems and startups turn to sync language, and php isn't one of those
My favorite lightweight framework is Slim
3:15
Php is the porn of the programming world, nobody admits it, but lot of people use it
A good lightweight PHP framework is CodeIgnitor and it's one I keep in my toolbelt for sites I don't need all the Laravel bells and whistles for!
Do a benchmark. See if it really is lighter. Because I remember working with CI before Laravel release v4 and CI was dogshit.
@@xtremescript CI released a newer version, and quite honestly, it resembles laravel.
CI was my first MVC, then ZEND.
But when I tried Laravel, I never looked back.
As a symfony guy I would go with symfony microkernell as starting point and you add what you want into it.
*we moved from Laravel to php and saved 30% server recourses with 1M per mo uniq page views.*
I would say it and you cannot just not agree with that - its not only about the tool (the application type), it also comes to how a developer/administrator could handle the application type. I've seen large projects done with WordPress. Its mad, right? But it worked, regardless of your judgment.
hease answers is vecause in php you done big projets in 2 wecks but en .js as delay of minimum 2 years and work for hour not for complete projets
Laravel scheduled MAJOR releases every 6 months. BREAKING changes EVERY 6 months? it's insane
my first project that i made using php and javascript/jquery then i started to learn and use laravel until now... then i also learned react and vue for the front end
I do not like Python for treating tabs, spaces, carriage returns, line feeds, and so on, as invisible reserved word. I don't like curly braces either.
Legacy means, among other things, it works.
I prefer codeigniter laravel is good but slow and too much dependencies and i hate the fact that they release new Laravel version very quickly we built a project Laravel in Laravel 7 and before the project was done the released Laravel 8 came out while we are preparing to update to Laravel 8 they released Laravel 9 its crazy we cant keep playing and updating the company app every couple months, codeigniter is mush better and fast and stable
The framework only updates once per year jan / feb
You should follow the framework official update not the minor updates
Plus that particular version has a supported date until then, so gives enough time to upgrade
Why update if it was all working fine in v7 ?
I was working as a contractor for the last few years. Came across people you said that Laravel sucks, it's slow, it doesn't have this and that. Ok, no judgement yet - contract gets signed, I get to see the codebase and, as usual: 1. They clearly have done poor research as most things they have done custom is already built-in Laravel, so no need to reinvent the wheel; 2. Heavy code in middleware therefore rendering the application slow; 3. Same old PHP slander from the devs when they explain what they try to achieve.
Which brings me to the point - how can you slander a technology you know nothing about / have done poor research on? And why are there some standards in place if you cannot follow them? Framework is not a silver bullet for all cases, you have to follow recommendations / standards to not make it slow as well.
If the app works fine... why update? If you are so concerned about security aspects / better APIs that came with time, you can do the upgrades. They are quite frictionless... if you have taken precautions. As with every app.
Well, a open source project called flarum is using laravel. And I guess, that's a pretty big project...
Thanks for this, I googeld it and im sold, this is the best thing i've seen, 100% gonna use it.
Drumeo/musora is one impressive Laravel project...
The only thing I hate about Laravel is that they keep breaking compatibility every release and they release way too often... but I do like the way the framework is convenient and quick to use...
Thanks for the review unlce Stef ! That was wonderful.... BTW i just did some code pushing at GITHUB in my repo .That makes me love rails anyway.Afterall GITHUB is a rails thing.
Lumen is a framework from laravel that is lightweight. we use it on some microservices