WOW! Clean water, lots of cover from predators, and a large supply of bugs in all of that grass covering the creek makes for some aggressive trout that are much bigger than anyone could expect. Great video and beautiful fish.
I love these series. First thing what stroke me was that barbed wire in the middle of nowhere. Civilisation is everywhere. Even in the most unexpected places.
I went to college in AZ and worked as a Wildlife Biologist for AZ, USFS and USFW. Id love to know where that is to research the history of the area which is a hobby of mine
If not for the barbed wire , those range maggots would be walking and laying in the creek, while destroying the riparian area and banks . To make matters worse, this type of destruction of trout habitat regularly takes place on public lands, lands that YOU own.
The Lahontan evolved in a giant ice age lake called Lake Lahontan, it was the size of one of the Great Lakes and stretched across NW Nevada, SE Oregon and NE California. The largest remnant of the lake is Pyramid Lake Nevada which holds some absolute monster size fish.
I made the 2 hour drive to pyramid once a week for ten years, my biggest was just north of 20, but I've seen tarpon sized fish roll there. I firmly believe there are 100 lb fish in that lake
I have found that repeatedly to be the case with various forms of Cutthroat Trout in various locations across their range: tiny streams - big fish. But don't take my word for it - get out there and check it out for yourself! :D
You and Andrew must be the best small stream fly fisherman in the country! The size of the fish you pulled out of that little spring creek was amazing. I’ve hiked several miles to fish for these beautiful little, living gems in a much wider creek and I felt very fortunate to catch an 8 incher. The fish you caught were truly outsized for stream-resident Lahontan Cutthroat trout. As always, your close up beauty shots showed us the spectacular colors of these unique and scarce trout. I look forward to your next video. Based on your comments I think you have a real treat in store for your viewers.
They are kooks who stomp through small creeks, destroying natural habitat. There's NO reason to stomp in a 2-3' wide creek. These guys are morons in and out of the water. I'd prefer they stay on the banks and catch and cook than stomp through those native creeks.
Cutthroat trout were the first New World trout encountered by Europeans when in 1541, Spanish explorer Francisco de Coronado recorded seeing trout in the Pecos River near Santa Fe, New Mexico. I'm glad it's our state fish. I'm subbed!!
Everything about this video was absolutely amazing. The colors of the trout, the creek and the scenery. Thanks so much again for a wonderful adventure.
Insane fishing you would not have found if you didn't put in the hard work to get there. Did I miss what wilderness area you were in? Great footage as always, guys. Native trout are the most beautiful fish.
Absolutely beautiful Cutty's ... the way they sparkle in the sunlight was impressive. The large size of some of those fish in such shallow water was also surprising. The stream covering must really contribute to the protection of those fish. Any type of natural predator in the area ? No doubt those fish would have some great taste but there were just too dang purdy to eat ! Thank you for this amazing video.
What an amazing day of fishing for gorgeous cutthroat at a beautiful creek. That's about the best trout fishing anyone could ever ask for. Awesome experience and video.
I wanna say thank you for the fly fishing tutorials! They have helped me pick up fly fishing and it is a nice switch up from my traditional methods! Watching you slay these cutties now. I miss CA sometimes
You have to see it to believe it. Such a narrow stream (one can easily jump over it) so full of good sized trout (time 11:38). And if that wasn't enough, those trout are gorgeous (time 3:58) with an incredible red colouring. Once again this TH-cam channel makes us live a dream. A real pleasure to watch, as usual.
My father and I are both avid fly fishers, he more so than I though. He is in a local club and one of the members passed away. Among the items his wife did not know what to do with was his mounted trophy Lohontan (Pyramid lake, Nevada '94). The other club members didn't want to see it tossed in the trash and my father ended up approaching me to see if there was a place for it in my shop (I have a bunch of old fishing stuff on the walls) So now it lives over the main door with the plaque giving credit to the gentleman still attached.
Thank you, Jon and Andrew for this awesome video. I have something new on my bucket list now. Those Lahount cutties are gorgeous. Was a real pleasure watching y'all catch, land, and release those beautiful trout.
I live in reno nevada pyramid lake fly fishing has some of the largest cutthroat trout. Love for you to come and fish. 20 pounds can be cought many times. Your a great fishermen. Love watching your videos.
Seriously, the size of those fish in that tiny stream! And they are indeed a beautiful trout! Love watching you guys on this latest adventure! Tight lines yo!! LETS GO!!!!!!!
I feel the same way as you do at the end of this series. I'm currently making fishing videos with my dad in them, which started out as just sharing in his hobby that he's enjoyed since before coming to Canada. But they have become a precious memory bank of stories and experiences.
Beautiful trout! Not sure they are more beautiful than the goldens you caught, but beautiful nonetheless. So when you say they are the largest NA trout, are you excluding char such as lake trout? I think they grow larger.
Fantastic to catch those fish from such a small stream, a really marvelous session. What colours! They aren't in very good condition though, they are so very thin, there can't be much food available for them to eat. That's probably why they're so easy to catch, they're so hungry that they'll eat anything and have to get to it quickly before another fish gets it.
Fished a little high elevation stream like that in the big horns a few weeks back for Yellowstone cutthroat. Surprised how many 12 inch plus fish there were in the 200 yards I fished. They may be small in width, but there’s good amount of water flowing.
I'm not trying to say that those cutthroat aren't something special, but have you ever seen trout we have in Lake Cresent, outside of Port Angeles Washington. the Beardslee trout is found nowhere else in the world and is in my opinion the most beautiful rainbow there is. the lake is not a popular fly fishing location but it is a spectacular experience none the less.
Amazing! It's great to see truly wild indigenous fish in such abundance and obvious prime condition. It shows that even in heavily populated California, once you get far enough away from the populated areas Mother Nature still rules. I'm primarily a surf fisherman and I catch legal California halibut (22" minimum) along the Orange County beaches with surfers and tourists all around. I'm starting to think we humans aren't as all-powerful as we think we are. Other animals are strong and fit for their environments, too, and still thrive even in places like California where the conventional wisdom says they should have long been eradicated from.
Wow, do you guys know how fortunate you were to have come so far in unfamiliar territory and scored like this. Being from CA, i can only dream of stumbling across this kind of wayer amd having this kind of day. Stoked!
You ever fly fish the Platte River in Wyoming? It's #2 fly fishing destination in the world. Rainbows, Browns and Cut-Bows can reach up to 30"-40" easily and several in a day!
I had the same experience fishing for Lahontan last summer. I fished maybe 200 yards of stream and caught a couple dozen. The stream I was fishing was about twice the size of the one you guys fished, but equally challenging with the vegetation. They are a blast to fish for. i had some crazy dry fly eats too. I cant wait to get back to California to fish for them again.
Man, I thought it would take me weeks to find this place on google earth, but this was an easy one, thanks! Ill have to check this out next time I am near San Diego.
Awesome! Fishing in a culvert never looked so awesome! I've been excited waiting for this series to upload. This inspire's me to do my own channel here in georgia. And by the way, what epic soundtrack were you playing at the culvert, it was amazing!?
Thanks for the reply! I'm definitely going to check out epidemic sound. I can't wait for part 5 of this series! Keep it reel out there and keep fishing!
These are truly beautiful fish. They aren’t all in tiny, remote creeks. Do some exploring, and you can find these fish in some well known but overlooked spots…
@@etahno all Lahontan cuts are in the sierra around Tahoe. These guys are too, just in a spot I don’t recognize (it looks like private land) but you don’t have to go very remote to find cutts
Man, if you guys are ever passing through Utah, I would love too take you guys to a spot that us locals don’t even really even hit too often that has massive browns and Cutthroats and fished best on streamers. It is pretty pretty tough rugged terrain on the way in, but it is one of the last sweet spots left in Utah!
Beautiful. Years ago I fished a high country cattle pond in the Sierras that had the only population of Grayling in California. Sadly the drought dried up the tiny lake years ago Never knew those trout existed in 58 years living in Cali. Quite a trophy
Are you talking about that pond that was on top of the mountain outside of Bridgeport, Ca off US 395? i was last up there in 1986 & we caught Grayling there, im trying to remember the name of it! i live in Hawthorne, Nv about 50mi as a crow flys from Bridgeport. not to many places i dont know about around the Eastern Sierras & on into Nevada!
I feel like a cane pole or tenkarra fly rod would be perfect for this. But 20 mile hike I can understand brining the best thing you can since you may not know what exactly to expect. When you go back you should do a cane pole.
Just guessing but from the looks of it i would say they are some where in the Eastern Sierras around the Bishop or Mammoth area or around the Owens River area!
Would love to know where this is. Not asking for the exact stream location or anything just the general area . I live in California and have been through most of it but have never seen this kind of scenery. Looks a little like around Lake Crowley but I don't think that's it.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
WOW! Clean water, lots of cover from predators, and a large supply of bugs in all of that grass covering the creek makes for some aggressive trout that are much bigger than anyone could expect. Great video and beautiful fish.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed
I love these series. First thing what stroke me was that barbed wire in the middle of nowhere. Civilisation is everywhere. Even in the most unexpected places.
Yeah I’m sure that was a cattle ranch or something before it was public, I have no idea honestly
With grass and water like that I'm sure it was at least summer pasture for someone. Be interesting to find out the history
I went to college in AZ and worked as a Wildlife Biologist for AZ, USFS and USFW. Id love to know where that is to research the history of the area which is a hobby of mine
@@bixby9797😂😂😂
If not for the barbed wire , those range maggots would be walking and laying in the creek, while destroying the riparian area and banks . To make matters worse, this type of destruction of trout habitat regularly takes place on public lands, lands that YOU own.
The Lahontan evolved in a giant ice age lake called Lake Lahontan, it was the size of one of the Great Lakes and stretched across NW Nevada, SE Oregon and NE California. The largest remnant of the lake is Pyramid Lake Nevada which holds some absolute monster size fish.
Thank God,,only he can breed them so sweet
I made the 2 hour drive to pyramid once a week for ten years, my biggest was just north of 20, but I've seen tarpon sized fish roll there. I firmly believe there are 100 lb fish in that lake
@@badlyniceness2315and thank the state of Utah and the landowner that re-discovered these in his creek.
Who would have thought that "huge" trout would be in such a small area...? Amazing footage and such a joy to witness. Thank you guys. Great work !!
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching
I have found that repeatedly to be the case with various forms of Cutthroat Trout in various locations across their range: tiny streams - big fish. But don't take my word for it - get out there and check it out for yourself! :D
Not a big comment guy, but I wanted to say that this was my favorite of all your videos. You've perfected your craft over the years.
Thank you so much!!
You and Andrew must be the best small stream fly fisherman in the country! The size of the fish you pulled out of that little spring creek was amazing. I’ve hiked several miles to fish for these beautiful little, living gems in a much wider creek and I felt very fortunate to catch an 8 incher. The fish you caught were truly outsized for stream-resident Lahontan Cutthroat trout. As always, your close up beauty shots showed us the spectacular colors of these unique and scarce trout. I look forward to your next video. Based on your comments I think you have a real treat in store for your viewers.
Thank you so much!! And yep the next video is a special one even for Andrew and I. But glad you enjoyed the video!
They are kooks who stomp through small creeks, destroying natural habitat. There's NO reason to stomp in a 2-3' wide creek. These guys are morons in and out of the water. I'd prefer they stay on the banks and catch and cook than stomp through those native creeks.
Cutthroat trout were the first New World trout encountered by Europeans when in 1541, Spanish explorer Francisco de Coronado recorded seeing trout in the Pecos River near Santa Fe, New Mexico. I'm glad it's our state fish. I'm subbed!!
Everything about this video was absolutely amazing. The colors of the trout, the creek and the scenery. Thanks so much again for a wonderful adventure.
I’m glad you enjoyed the video!!
What an amazing series this is - cannot thank you enough! What gorgeous fish!
Still have 2 more videos to go! The next one may be my favorite
Insane fishing you would not have found if you didn't put in the hard work to get there. Did I miss what wilderness area you were in? Great footage as always, guys. Native trout are the most beautiful fish.
Absolutely beautiful Cutty's ... the way they sparkle in the sunlight was impressive. The large size of some of those fish in such shallow water was also surprising. The stream covering must really contribute to the protection of those fish. Any type of natural predator in the area ? No doubt those fish would have some great taste but there were just too dang purdy to eat ! Thank you for this amazing video.
What an amazing day of fishing for gorgeous cutthroat at a beautiful creek. That's about the best trout fishing anyone could ever ask for. Awesome experience and video.
This is so insane I've never seen such crazy colors! You guys are literally showcasing a beauty that most don't get to experience thank you!
I’m glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching
I wanna say thank you for the fly fishing tutorials! They have helped me pick up fly fishing and it is a nice switch up from my traditional methods! Watching you slay these cutties now. I miss CA sometimes
It's not often that a single video will earn my subscription, but this is one of those occasions.
Thank you so much!!
Get em my fellow West Virginian’s. Remarkable fishing and stunning trout, I’m speechless!!!!!!!!
Thanks!!!
You have to see it to believe it. Such a narrow stream (one can easily jump over it) so full of good sized trout (time 11:38). And if that wasn't enough, those trout are gorgeous (time 3:58) with an incredible red colouring. Once again this TH-cam channel makes us live a dream. A real pleasure to watch, as usual.
Glad you enjoyed!!!
Thank you for sharing your experiences. They help reinforce my commitment to small mountain stream fishing. God bless you and your brother.
So wild! Beautiful fish hidden in a grass field!
What an incredible fishing trip beautiful fish!! Thanks for lettin us tag along👍
My father and I are both avid fly fishers, he more so than I though. He is in a local club and one of the members passed away. Among the items his wife did not know what to do with was his mounted trophy Lohontan (Pyramid lake, Nevada '94). The other club members didn't want to see it tossed in the trash and my father ended up approaching me to see if there was a place for it in my shop (I have a bunch of old fishing stuff on the walls) So now it lives over the main door with the plaque giving credit to the gentleman still attached.
I love it when you guys drag giant fish out of tiny ditches.. seems impossible, great stuff thank you 👍👍
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed!
Thank you, Jon and Andrew for this awesome video. I have something new on my bucket list now. Those Lahount cutties are gorgeous. Was a real pleasure watching y'all catch, land, and release those beautiful trout.
Thank you!! Glad you enjoyed the video
Awesomely beautiful trout, especially on such a tiny stream! You and your bro are living the dream.
We’re doing our best! Thanks for watching
The thrill of small stream fishing is alive and well, here! These are truly fascinating adventures on these small creeks!
Glad you enjoyed!!
how to find these small streams? high elevation or low? would higher elevation be cleaner and bigger fish due to less predators?
I live in reno nevada pyramid lake fly fishing has some of the largest cutthroat trout. Love for you to come and fish. 20 pounds can be cought many times. Your a great fishermen. Love watching your videos.
Thank you! And pyramid lake is definitely on the bucket list
Seriously, the size of those fish in that tiny stream! And they are indeed a beautiful trout! Love watching you guys on this latest adventure! Tight lines yo!! LETS GO!!!!!!!
Thank you!!! Glad you’re enjoying the videos!!
Going fishing for entertainment is very interesting. Your video is very good, I wish you a happy and lucky fishing day 🎣🐟
Thanks for the ride! You're an inspiration to all us WV fellas haha.
I started watching your channel not too long ago, and it quickly became my favorite fly fishing channel! Great videos
That’s awesome! Seriously thank you!
Wow, that was an AMAZING video! It's so cool that there were so many beautiful hungry trout in such a tiny stream. Thanks for sharing your adventure!
Thank you for watching! Glad you enjoyed
You guys are absolute legends😎🎉 So cool to see these beasts in such a tiny creek
I feel the same way as you do at the end of this series. I'm currently making fishing videos with my dad in them, which started out as just sharing in his hobby that he's enjoyed since before coming to Canada. But they have become a precious memory bank of stories and experiences.
Letsssssss goooo part four of the best native trout series on Yt!!!!
Wow! That bucket list got filled up. Enjoyed watching. 👍
Beautiful fish and scenery. Looking forward to the next video.
Beautiful trout!
Not sure they are more beautiful than the goldens you caught, but beautiful nonetheless.
So when you say they are the largest NA trout, are you excluding char such as lake trout? I think they grow larger.
Wow, beautiful trout in such a little creek.
Wow! I thought part 3 was a good video. Look like the kind of day we would all love to have fishing. Can’t wait for the next video.
What an amazing trout! You guys make the most interesting videos and your passion and excitement is so entertaining, I love it!
Thank you for the kind words!! Glad you’re enjoying the vids
This is such an incredible video! Loved seeing the dry fly takes! Unbelievable footage, watching from Australia 🇦🇺 🎣
Glad you enjoyed it!
Trip of a lifetime boys! Well done and thank you for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed!
Great work guys. Greetings from Fairmont West Virginia
I live like an hour from fairmont LOL
Great video. Thanks for not giving up the spot. I'm sure with just a hint of the location and the trout would be gone and the stream destroyed
I am loving this series...
I live in california and have been planning a trip like this for a while..
I just suck at trout fishing.
Fantastic to catch those fish from such a small stream, a really marvelous session. What colours!
They aren't in very good condition though, they are so very thin, there can't be much food available for them to eat. That's probably why they're so easy to catch, they're so hungry that they'll eat anything and have to get to it quickly before another fish gets it.
Probably not wrong, I’m surprised that stream can hold such a large number of fish. Glad you enjoyed the video!
@@hardmanfishing Thanks for replying.
Fished a little high elevation stream like that in the big horns a few weeks back for Yellowstone cutthroat. Surprised how many 12 inch plus fish there were in the 200 yards I fished. They may be small in width, but there’s good amount of water flowing.
amazing vid, channel will absolutely take off soon
I'm not trying to say that those cutthroat aren't something special, but have you ever seen trout we have in Lake Cresent, outside of Port Angeles Washington. the Beardslee trout is found nowhere else in the world and is in my opinion the most beautiful rainbow there is. the lake is not a popular fly fishing location but it is a spectacular experience none the less.
Great Video guys, thanks for the work, until next outing.
Amazing content and beautiful fish! You’ve inspired me to get back into fly fishing again!! Cheers.
Heck yeah!!
What a beautiful interesting fish. On the bucket list!
I have never hiked ever up a mountain. I went 5 kms up this summer in the canadian Rockies for goldens lol. What a trip 14.5”
Wow. Breathtaking and an absolute blessing.
Thanks for watching!!
Crazy cool video!! What gorgeous Trout!! Great series! Tightlines
Thank you!
Thanks for sharing you two......
Amazing! It's great to see truly wild indigenous fish in such abundance and obvious prime condition. It shows that even in heavily populated California, once you get far enough away from the populated areas Mother Nature still rules.
I'm primarily a surf fisherman and I catch legal California halibut (22" minimum) along the Orange County beaches with surfers and tourists all around. I'm starting to think we humans aren't as all-powerful as we think we are. Other animals are strong and fit for their environments, too, and still thrive even in places like California where the conventional wisdom says they should have long been eradicated from.
Wow I thought the last few episodes were amazing. This one takes the cake
This was probably the most unexpectedly good day of fishing we’ve ever had. Insane.
Wow, do you guys know how fortunate you were to have come so far in unfamiliar territory and scored like this. Being from CA, i can only dream of stumbling across this kind of wayer amd having this kind of day. Stoked!
I’d rather be lucky than good! Glad you enjoyed the video
Another amazing video❤❤❤,but all your videos are awesome
Thank you!!
If you want big Lahontan cutties, go to lake Pyramid. It is just outside of Reno
You ever fly fish the Platte River in Wyoming? It's #2 fly fishing destination in the world. Rainbows, Browns and Cut-Bows can reach up to 30"-40" easily and several in a day!
I had the same experience fishing for Lahontan last summer. I fished maybe 200 yards of stream and caught a couple dozen. The stream I was fishing was about twice the size of the one you guys fished, but equally challenging with the vegetation. They are a blast to fish for. i had some crazy dry fly eats too. I cant wait to get back to California to fish for them again.
That’s awesome!! Yeah these fish are pretty cool and fun to fish for. Thanks for watching
over limit
where in cali did you fish?
@@etahno NE California
Man, I thought it would take me weeks to find this place on google earth, but this was an easy one, thanks! Ill have to check this out next time I am near San Diego.
It’s a little south of San Diego but good luck!!
haha@@hardmanfishing
how tf did you find this on google maps bro
You guys are legends man.
Well, now I have to subscribe to catch the next video. I love sierra fishing
Good stuff… keep hunting those small streams. I have caught 4+ lb Lahontan in a similar setting.
how to find these small streams? on google maps or just hiking and basic common geology sense?
@@bane8305Dude ik i have no clue where to find these small streams i’ve been mapping for hours
In my state we have blue backs aka sea run cutthroat biggest I caught was 21 inches
Awesome! Fishing in a culvert never looked so awesome! I've been excited waiting for this series to upload. This inspire's me to do my own channel here in georgia. And by the way, what epic soundtrack were you playing at the culvert, it was amazing!?
I don’t remember! I get my music from epidemic sound
Thanks for the reply! I'm definitely going to check out epidemic sound. I can't wait for part 5 of this series! Keep it reel out there and keep fishing!
Wow! I fish the Sierra's all the time. I would love to add that fish to my catch and release list. Do tell where that is?
Beautiful fish, Love your videos!!!!
Thank you!!
These are truly beautiful fish. They aren’t all in tiny, remote creeks. Do some exploring, and you can find these fish in some well known but overlooked spots…
where else in cali might these guys be. looking for streams/rivers. I mainly fish in inyo county but I think these guys are all up north
@@etahno all Lahontan cuts are in the sierra around Tahoe. These guys are too, just in a spot I don’t recognize (it looks like private land) but you don’t have to go very remote to find cutts
sounds good thanks man@@thecalfisher
Great video. Loved all of it.
Thank you!
Awesome, thank you for sharing.
Beautiful fish in what looks more like a drainage ditch than a creek.
Something that rare I’d be happy just looking at it in the water.
Man, if you guys are ever passing through Utah, I would love too take you guys to a spot that us locals don’t even really even hit too often that has massive browns and Cutthroats and fished best on streamers. It is pretty pretty tough rugged terrain on the way in, but it is one of the last sweet spots left in Utah!
this is the most insane fishing video I have ever seen, I envy you.
Thank you!!!
Anyone else notice those quail? So cool that they're up that high.
Sick Lahontan trout on foam hoppers
Beautiful. Years ago I fished a high country cattle pond in the Sierras that had the only population of Grayling in California. Sadly the drought dried up the tiny lake years ago
Never knew those trout existed in 58 years living in Cali. Quite a trophy
Are you talking about that pond that was on top of the mountain outside of Bridgeport, Ca off US 395? i was last up there in 1986 & we caught Grayling there, im trying to remember the name of it! i live in Hawthorne, Nv about 50mi as a crow flys from Bridgeport. not to many places i dont know about around the Eastern Sierras & on into Nevada!
@@nevadaboy9769
if i recall it was above the timberline above Lonepine or Big Pine. it was not as far a Bridgeport
They are BEAUTIFUL! What are the odds that these fish have never seen a fly before?
I have no idea 😂 I’d think someone has fished for them, just can’t be that offen
Ok, the red ones are crazy!
Awesome! Enjoyed 🎣🎣
I feel like a cane pole or tenkarra fly rod would be perfect for this. But 20 mile hike I can understand brining the best thing you can since you may not know what exactly to expect. When you go back you should do a cane pole.
Amazing fish and video
Thank you!
Just guessing but from the looks of it i would say they are some where in the Eastern Sierras around the Bishop or Mammoth area or around the Owens River area!
@Hardman Fishing Adventures, I hope you kept some to eat. They are loaded in there.
amazing colors!!!!!
Gorgeous in all aspects. When does the next video drop?
Next Friday I think! Depends on how quickly I edit it
Besides gopros what cameras do you guys film with? Like when you zoom in on trout
These get and are bigger than a native Brooke trout? I catch em all the time where I'm from. Serious question Though
Big trout that can tolerate water temps in the upper 70's. How do we get them stocked where I live?
Great video, beautiful area, where is it?
I just started fly fishing about 7 months ago and it is my goal to catch one of these
Im new to all of this, is the elevation high in the mountains for cleaner fish? or is this low elevation?
Would love to know where this is. Not asking for the exact stream location or anything just the general area . I live in California and have been through most of it but have never seen this kind of scenery. Looks a little like around Lake Crowley but I don't think that's it.
Wow! I'm trout speechless.
You guys are more than welcome to come target some 5lb brookies with me at trout opener in small creeks.
Dude! I know this is sacrelig, but what creek is this? Any hints?