What are your thoughts on the Ingenieur? Should they have dropped the price way down to attract more people to this property? Is its design playing it too safe? I feel that with an effort to create such a 70's inspired, masculine design, much of its elegance and grace as an integrated sports watch has been lost in favour of too many derivative traits that we've seen too much of by now.
Agree with all your changes including the price drop and I’d add one more, micro adjust on clasp. IWC does great job on pilot bracelet and micro adjust but fail here. All the more reason to pay half and get the Mark XX!
I afraid I can’t agree with you. Can’t place pilot hand on this as everyone will say that they just used what they has in the bin to make a new watch. 1970s model is what this model trying to recreate not the 1950s model. It is very similar and manages it elegantly. Price is high ang I for one, think it could be cheaper. However it is in line with completion or better. Do you think AP is cheaper? I think you have been a little harsh to what will be a very successful design model for IWC in recent years.
It seems like it's priced appropriately or even underpriced. All the ADs I've spoken to say it's already allocated 100%. Maybe they're not being truthful, but we'll find out shortly.
@@timeisahumanconstruct9251 I’m sure they’re going to go like hotcakes to everyone who wants to say “I have one!” Lol 😂 I still think it’s over priced but I guess anyone could argue that of any luxury watch! We’re all crazy in this watch obsession!
Thank you for your thoughtful reviews. I am an engineer and likely the center of the fairway of the targeted customer. The four main areas of your critique are the hands, crown guards, script and price. I have to tell you that I was invited to an early release video conference and fell in love immediately. I didn’t have the 1950’s reference in mind, but just looked at the new design with a fresh, new model perspective. All three of your main design enhancements could work well but I have to say that I prefer the ones IWC chose. I own 14 IWC watches ranging from simpler Big Pilots to the Ceratanium Perpetual Calendar and respect all of their design languages. After cost, the crown guards seem to be the most controversial elements. I think that today’s tool watches need a crown guard to firmly say “I’m a working watch and offer no excuses for my faded jeans”. Somehow guardless crowns feel like dress watches trying to be “tough” to me. In terms of cost, I am constantly in the market for watches in many price categories. After recently purchasing a Blancpain diver, GP Laureato and Rolex Skydweller, I’m pretty comfortable with the price points of the Ingenieurs. They maybe are 10% high and I guess the market will be the ultimate judge. I ordered the black face and titanium!
I agree. I prefer the actual model over the changes he recommends. I also prefer to the 1970’s SL over the 1950 original. I also believe most of the naysayers have not put one on wrist and experienced it in person. It’s a very masculine design but I do think there are elegant touches (dial is amazing in person, photos/video doesn’t do it justice, the polished edges on the bracelet and case, and the thin case feels very elegant on wrist).
You're the 1% who likes the handset change! Ah, welcome! I really dig the elegance of them but they would NEVER fly today (pun intended) 😆 Still, we can dream. Thank you Garrick 🥃
You have just said EVERYTHING I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS WATCH! But I didn't have the words for it. Perfect video... As always! ;) And I couldn't agree more
I love that your criticism always offers a solution. No other youtuber is doing that. 9/10 times your renders are better than the manufacturer design. You'd think someone would snag you as a consultant.
Great videos. I paid for mine on release date so asking price was not an issue in my opinion. I'm not a previous IWC customer, mostly Vacheron and Rolex so I don't have any outrage about the asking price. Most important to me, many similar style watches miss the mark on bracelet H link design (Czapek bracelet) or too angular brutal watch case shape (weird extra side angles on Royal Oak), bracelet flare beyond the case etc, so when this one was released I called my boutique right away. There isn't much I don't like about it. I would delete the crown guards if I could but on wrist these little things don't detract from the experience.
About 10 years ago, when I'd just gotten into watches and hadn't yet learned that you could actually take the caseback off of your own watch, I took my dead Seiko Flightmaster to a local jeweler in for a battery change. While I was sat across from this probably 80 year old guy at his desk, while he put in a new battery into my Seiko, I asked him about the gold watch that he was wearing. Yup, it was a 1950s IWC Ingenieur on a brown leather strap, with the ornate "International Watch Co Schaffhausen" script & dauphine handset. I remember him saying "It's an old IWC, you've never heard of them?". Needless to say, I went home and googled IWC lol. This new Ingenieur does nothing for me at all. Great video, thanks!
I always appreciate seeing your proposed design changes. Regarding the watch in general, though-I can’t remember if you addressed it in the video, but I’m beginning to feel a bit of fatigue towards the whole integrated bracelet steel sports watch thing. I wonder how others feel and whether the industry is going to lean harder into it or move onto the next thing (only to come back to it later, since I’m sure this would be cyclical).
Fatigue has definitely stepped in (for the enthusiasts) brands are still pumping them out (and many are still interested) but I fear it'll be a fad... much like so many fashions of the times... As long as people keep buying them, the more they'll produce. Whether or not people will keep wearing them in the years to come is another question entirely 😉
The integrated bracelet won't go away anytime soon. It's been present for a while, it's nothing new, but it was mostly unaccessible for enthusiasts. Who can afford a Nautilus or a Royal Oak, Streamliner etc? Microbrands are only now giving us decent alternatives - Tissot PRX, Horage Supersede, C.Ward Twelve, Direnzo Mondial and so on. Major brands see the interested is still present, and so they refresh their models. I think it will become just a watch type present in every brands catalogue - diver, dress, pilot, integrated...
I love your design of the watch! I think its universally agreed that the cost of this watch should have been around £6k-7k. I think that would have been fair. I was quite shocked when i seen the price of it and very disappointed.
As always a fantastic video 👌🏻 for me the dealbreaker with this watch is and will always be the price. No matter the changes I would never pay above 4 - 5k usd for this watch, it’s just not that kind of watch.
Very valid, if the watch arrived at half their recommended price we'd all be looking at it differently. It's frustrating how money ruins everything. And thank you Viktor! 🥃
@SaintWill agree. This isn’t the only one. I see IWC like Breitling - not accepting their place in the luxury watch pecking order up and down their catalog.
I'm laughing at the pricing too. However, with inflation I think they could ask for 6k, or absolute max 7k usd. I think it's a quality watch and well designed.
My favourite watch of this kind is the Czapek Antarctique, and the best cheaper alternative to that is the brand new Christopher Ward The Twelve. I'd much rather have that one for 1.2K than this for 12K, even if I had a spare 12K just for watches(which i don't).
Amazing what a decimal point can do 😉 It's such a pity that a brand like IWC could've undercut their steep competition and offered so much on top of it... money ruins everything, words to live by 🥃
I was honestly obsessing over this watch since the second it was announced, despite the price....until April 27th. Immediately preorded the titanium CW twelve. I know its unoriginal and borrows design cues, but I also really appreciate CW's honesty on that front in all of their marketing materials. Their designer came drom Czapek... Genta designed many very similar watches for different brands in the 70s, and yet we celebrate all of them today, despite their obvious similarities. I very well still might pick up the Ingenieur one day, but I also may look elsewhere for such a grail-level purchase, like a Reverso Duoface. I own a Mark XX by the way, and the movement has been nothing short of fantastic, but the Mark XX is priced so much better...
I agree, the fact the CW are up front about where they draw their ‘inspiration’ from completely defuses any criticism for me. They’ve been absolutely smashing it recently.
Great video as always and a great redesign too.. alot of people are underestimating this watch, give it time, this watch is going to blow up and then every person that thought it was too expensive is going to regret not buying it at the current price.. you have the perfect size, great design, attention to details, awesome history plus it wears like a millon bucks, what's not to like!..I know what you're all going to say.. the price, the movement... please people don't be so Karen about it and lets just celebrate that the INGENIEUR is BACK!!! I already put down a deposit for the Aqua dial.. now that is a killer watch! I can't wait! 💪⌚️😃🤘
As always, fantastic video & well considered. Whilst I often side with your designs wholeheartedly, I’m afraid here I think the only adjustment needed is the removal of crown guards & a thinner crown. Everything else imho (hands, markers at 12, text used etc) is spot-on. Aside the price. Should be £7K max. Cheers 🍻
As always some very good thoughts IDGuy. I think your summary was perfect when you said "PRX", I could not have put this better myself. Gerald was a great designer but once again it seems like it has become a trend in the watch industry and as we know trends do change over time. For today I'll stick with my PRX and remember playing those "Space Invaders" slot video games from my teen years. Tomorrow I might wear my Longines Sector dial and think of travelling by rail by a restored steam locomotive power.
I appreciate the 'grace' you added to interpreting a better design of the Ingenieur. Definitely more esthetic in blending all the history. I was intrigued by the watch until I read the price tag. That sank my interest. I would enjoy seeing your take on the new CW Twelve. Now, that is much more intriguing. I wonder though if the dial texture is too much. Hope you had a blast field trialing your BB 54. It would be wonderful to see field video in your future content.
Thank you sir 😉 I think you're one of very few who prefer my interpretation with the leaf hands but hey! The new CW is very interesting but wow, I'm wondering if Czapek won't be sending them a letter!😆
@@ID-Guy same designer, so probably not. We forget sometimes that Genta himself designed very similar watches for multiple brands. Not to mention CW is completely open and honest about their design influences in all of their marketing materials - it's actually quite refreshing the way they admit it. The 12 is like a love letter to Genta.
I agree that it's priced a little high, and I also agree that maybe we're done with AP and Nautilus spin offs. But maybe that's the point! I love the aqua dial version of this IWC, you have to see it for yourself! The colour changes dependant on the light, it's hard to explain. But the stripe/dot chequered texture is a fascinating aesthetic too. The crown guards are brutal I agree, but is that intended? I think it is, and I think it works! It hits the centre line between the sharp, angular Royal Oak and the softer, more curvey Nautilus. Some might say IWC have missed the mark, being late to ride the 70's vibe (and integrated bracelets). But maybe they've just defined the 'fashion' for 70's inspired integrated watch design?!! PS - good skills with the graphics, but I don't think the 're-design' is any good though I'm afraid. It would look more like it's counterparts then. Remove the crown guards and it's more like Tissot PRX. I think they break up the symmetry, in a good way, but that's just my opinion! Well, this whole rant has been my 'opinion', sorry folks ❤️
@@wisamal-hakim5531 The CW was designed by the same guy who designed the Czapek, so nothing disingenuous. Am not sure it’s even possible to design a new watch without looking like another watch, or watches.
@@_AlphaLimaGolf really? I didn’t know that. I’m surprised the Antarctique designer is now working for CW. Interesting. Regardless a lovely watch to copy/replicate etc And yes I absolutely agree almost impossible to design a new watch that is truly different to anything else. Will you get one?
Another great video. The Ingeniuer is just a crazy price so the miss is by a mile for me. I think it is well worth the time to look at the 1950s watch design language - not just for the Swiss giants but the US and U.K. watch companies - Bulova, Hamilton, and Smiths are my favourites. There is something about these watches that capture my heart. Of course, even as a geezer I barely remember the 50s except for the style. Cheers
Great video . I had the version without the crown guards and the true in house movement and while it looked great it was an uncomfortable beast to wear . It was heavy it was thick and fast forward to this model they could not even bother with some sort of on the fly adjustment and for 12k you can’t afford to not be close to perfection …(I am aware PP doesn’t have it either )
I have to say, I think the watch is perfect. I love everything about it and is probably my favourite piece at the moment. As for price, I wish it was cheaper so I could buy it but it's so much Less than the others (you know the ones). IWC might be my favourite Logo. As for the crown guards, Oris aquis style which is the best part of the Aquis... 👌
I hav zero problems with the design. I think it looks great. My problem is entirely with the price. Both as compared to the competition, and compared to their own Model XX.
If you can't afford a watch for CHF 12,000, I'm sorry. This watch is a style icon and will always be. I don't care how much it will cost in 5 years. Watches are bought to be worn, not to be kept in a safe and expected to increase in value. I recommend everyone to respect the old Swiss brands because they deserve it. The rest is a matter of our taste and bank account wealth.
Nice render, bdw they’ve also already updated the clasp to easy adjust modern one used on the Mark XX (among other Richemont brands). It may be introduced as an option
Great job taking another approach to reviewing the watch - the movement/price has been covered and that horse needs no more flogging. Agree 100% on the crown guards - look like a last minute add on. Maybe a little too Genta for their own good. I’m probably in the minority but the AP and PP that this competes with are sports watches in name only. This crown guards are not needed. IWC has a special place for me: remember the gigantic ads as one exited the metro on the Kowloon side in HK. Got me thinking about luxury brands being added to my collection one day.
I can see that you have immense respect for Gerald Genta, but I think you might be a little hard on this particular IWC Ingenieur; although you are correct about the crown guards. My only personal complaint is the1990's "Ingenieur" typeface. It doesn't seem to match the rest of the design language.
My love for the flowy script is too much 😆I agree, overstepped it in a few places (much prefer what I shared on Instagram instead) Thank you for this brother 🥃
I used to work with a older scientist who'd been wearing his Ingenieur since he first started working in the 60s. It was a beautiful watch, simple, tasteful yet strong. A one watch for a one man for a lifetime.
What's your reasoning for choosing the black and white palette? Personally, it feels overtly dramatic and kind of pretentious but I'd love to hear your thought process behind that choice.
I don't actually know but man... the drawing is gorgeous... to get such a clean final result with all of that layering is something else! I'm sure IWC contracted the artist directly 🥃
So when are you doing the Zenith video? (didn't you acquire a Chronomaster? looking forward to seeing a detailed review of the Zenith plus a current SOTC.)
A quickie from me is it's a far cooler design. More daring, interesting to look at (albeit a bit too close to Czapek) BUT still... compared to 12k and being 1.2k in some countries... amazing what a decimal point can do 😉 Frankly, they crushed it...
Great summnary - thanks for sharing. I agree with your point about pricing. How can Ingenieur be twice the price of a Pilot Mark XX when both offer a metal bracelet and the same movement?
Well thought out on your part, unlike the ingenieur. They've gone so far from the original ingenieur, then transitioned to the Genta design, then on to another then back to the Genta. This is obviously a Genta cash grab. Im glad you and few others have the integrity to criticize when it's warranted. I've seen others who were obviously paid to talk about the watch just gush about it, and gloss over so much. Subscribed, I'll be looking forward to more of your content.
Always appreciate your reviews and in this instance a constructive alternative. If we turned on our time machine and set it to 10 years from today, how would you feel that your Ingenieur design mod decisions might fare? I’ve been asking this question more and more over the years about the timepiece decisions I’ve made and frequently look back at how some of the watch choices I’ve made have fared. In this sense while no timepiece is truly timeless in design as any watch can only represent the era from whence it comes, there are some timepieces from every era that are drop dead beautiful, i.e. polerouter, Reverso, etc.
love the logo at 12 but they would never do that because all brands care about is continuity that's also why you'll never see another rose on a Tudor. However, I feel that putting the propeller hands on this makes no sense and takes away from the engineer aesthetic
Amazing video and completely agree with the design feedback. I would be more inclined to buy this with the changes you suggested given the price. I own the Mark XX and feel that watch is fantastic with a reasonable price point. Would I buy this iteration if the price were 1-2k more than the Mark XX? Yes. But it’s not and so I scrutinize the overall package more and can’t justify buying one.
It's a TOOL WATCH correct? The crown guards protect the crown so they have a REAL FUNCTION for craftsmen who work with their hands. If IWC wants to make a watch that competes with $80,000 luxuray brands then make it with a name that ISN'T ENGINEER.
@@ID-Guy thats exactly what they said forty years ago , ,they just have not gone away ,,, think two tone ,, low and behold the two tone explorer, if it was right then , its right now .... if you want new ideas , read old books.
Dear Mr ID Guy, Hope you’re doing well mate. I just wanted to say how I look forward yo you pulling apart the design attributes of watches, explain and then give us your interpretation. However, for some reason I’m already sick to death of this watch. I don’t dislike the brand, but give me a break with GG design. With respect, of course…🤗
You're not the only one sick to death of the integrated craze Dave, don't worry 😉 Thankfully I've got a Tag Heuer & Omega clip in the works as we speak, no integrateness at all! 🔥 Thank you as always brother 🥃
@@ID-Guy Dear Mr ID Guy, that new Tag Heuer Chrono is 🔥 clean and sharp. I hope the brand becomes stronger and gets some more ❤️ from the community. Have a great weekend bud.
Great analysis regarding the crown guards. This model was over engineered and they lost the art of Genta’s original design. I would have kept the pencil hands. That’s pure Genta. 🥂
Man... Really loving your redesign... For me, let's be honest - even with your design, I would not be affording a 10k IWC.. I guess they wanted to capitalise on the Genta hype. Oh well... I will keep saving and will go for something special some day, but this will not be it.... p.s. currently may grab a bronze Hamilton Khaki 38mm.. Fun little watch that will develop patina which is pretty cool..i hear they're very nice to wind too.. Loving my 70s Seiko Skyliner, but that little crown makes hand winding tricky... WHY IS EVERY DAMN WATCH ALMOST GREAT BUT ALSO JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH !>!?!!?!?! hehehehe Hope life treating you well man. Let me know next time you're in Edinburgh
Personally I love it, and I do think I will probs buy it next year. But then I'm judging it purely on what it is now and paying no care to what it might have been in the past. I love the design (IWCs not yours - with respect) and I'm happy to stump up the money to have it.
I was really excited about this release at first glance, but ultimately it doesn't seem justified for all the reasons you explained here. I was in the watch shop the other week and ended up getting offered the GP Laureato in green at a price a hair below what this new Ingeniur retails for, I couldn't say no. The GP is brilliant.
Great video. I think stick hands and indices similar to the first edition of the AP Code on this watch would have looked amazing. Why does every company have to tick boxes, cramming lume on every watch and ballooning hands and indices. On a side note - Would love to see a video of your thoughts on the Emmanuel Gueit RO Offshore, seeing as its the 30th anniversary this year😉
I was so excited to see this watch, but that turned into disappointment, especially these enormous crown guards, Genta's Watch never had them, so why I have them now? Also the size of the watch and it's thickness, it's just too big and too heavy. And last but not least Genta's case integrated with the lugs, but on this new one the last link of the bracelet goes into the case which is the opposite way it was originally done, I think that makes a huge difference, because that was where Genta was so clever, he added a unique piece of design making the watch case extend into the bracelet. Thanks for the great video, I really am disappointed to be critical of a watch that had so much potential, and I agree with everything you said. To have the full experience only the original will do!!
Nice perspective. It would be great if you were able to compare this to the new Christopher Ward 12… It brings so much to the table at a fraction of the cost of this one not to mention things I did you see I don’t think even could’ve accomplished.
I can’t help thinking that being part of big group has played a major part in the shortcomings afflicting the new Ingenieur. IWC claimed it took 6 years to bring the new Ingenieur to market. So, it sounds like the accountants at Richemont must have spent a very, very long time deliberating on the rate of Gentax they wanted to add to the SRP, whilst design subtlety, finesse, and definitive holistic character took a back seat (or were determined by committee). I totally agree with you design suggestions, not least the ‘International Watch Co’ script, after all IWC has a rude urban slang meaning…. From what I’ve heard most of IWC’s focus now is on restricting availability of the Ingenieur - they seem to believe this, together with the inflated price, is a part of the design! And then there’s the butterfly bracelet, with no micro-adjust or half-links, on a watch costing 5 figures 🤔. Oh, dear.
I would have put the iconic 12/6 Ingenieur numerals from the 3227/3228 on this model as a nod to the IWCs of the 2000s. The IWC logo at 12:00 is a little “on the nose” with the GP Laureato
It is hard to justify such a price. However, some things are worth mentioning : date that starting as 01, 02, etc. then 5 days of power reserve and thickness of 10.8 mm.
@@ID-Guy Agree, it would be release of the year in my opinion. The problem start when you want to make iconic watch even more iconic and that is double edge sword in my opinion.
@@divjan3990 It's a pity how money ruins everything too. They could've had SUCH an edge over the competition by dipping their price down and undercutting everyone... Surely brands want their watches on people's wrists? 🙄
Excellent points and great to get into the Genta/Rams/'50s design weeds! Love your render (the old cursive script!). But finesse, sophistication... IWC?? IWCs modern design direction absolutely pains me - generic, crude and blind to their own heritage. Like other Richemont tribute brands, they're now a pastiche of their former glory, a theme brand majoring in conventional, obvious luxury, while their heritage and culture is anything but. The Ingenieur typifies this - nice enough, but ultimately derivative and safe. And the price just cannot be ignored because it is an insult to their customers. This sort of egregious gouge needs calling out - nearly twice the price of Santos, 3x the price of a Riviera? 11X the price of a CW 12..!
It makes me scratch my head actually. To debut a NEW Ingenieur only for it to look like a less inspired version of the 2005 variant with an even more sterile presentation... I just don't get it. They want it to be timeless but it also ends up looking lifeless? Immortality has its pitfalls 😆
It’s playing at too high a price point I think. Certainly a good watch but not sure why you wouldn’t just have the Zenith Defy for a lot less money and still with an in house movement.
great and informative video as usual… though there is one thing i am not convinced like you… i don’t think iwc made anything wrong with this new interpretation… first the minute and hour hands should not be like you suggest a mixture between 70‘s and 50‘s style, purity and clarity to follow the 70’s was the goal , and the other items different texture for schaffhausen , no crown guards to give this watch more elegance ? in the 50‘s that’s right it started with more dressy style but in the 70‘s the focus was and should be more form follows function and industrial design which this design achieved in my opinion… to put several styles of this icon into the same design would have been an overload … so regarding minute markers , and minute and hour hands , they did a great job , more puristic… but i admit this could be long discussion, just want to put my thoughts into and wondering if you understand my points 🍀✌️
ok, well that wasn't the direction i thought you'd go! For me, lose the crown guards and the date window, but the hands, hour markers, and logo placement are perfect as it is. What this watch needs is the better time only movement from the Big Pilot 43, with its sapphire case back, and add their micro adjust clasp. All the elements for this exist within IWC, they simply chose to use less expensive components to make a higher margin. The price point is fine, but they needed to come to the table with a better movement to support that position.
I think IWC nailed the design, but agree that the price is too high for the movement you get. Yes the finishing is excellent, but then is it really 6 times better than the new Christopher Ward Twelve-it isn’t to my eye, at least from photos. I suspect these will be discounted at the AD in a year or so.
No idea why they thought that they could bump the prices of these so high that even during its release people were scratching their heads 😆 Your suspicions will be correct methinks 🥃
@@markalbert1333 exactly. TBH if I were in the integrated Watch mood I’d consider the GP Laureato over this. Movement would justify the price. IMHO IWC is living in the past. This could have been the offering to bring new people to their brand.
@@WestCoastAce27 totally agree with you. The Ingeniuer is a golden ticket to (finally) be an equal to the other highly regarded integrated sports watch… but it is not yet there. It belongs there in theory, so to get there, they need to have worked their way up first 😂
Stunning design and watch. Yes, you can buy the Mark XX for far less, and you should, if you want a Mark XX. if you want and Ingenieur however, buying the Mark XX would be silly, regardless of price. The crownguards are beautiful, and of course work very well here. Buying a PRX? A CW "The Twelve"? and compating it to this? cheap looks cheap, but, up to you.
The watch is great,we would all like to change something but it is subjectiv,I would like the open case back but it is what it is...about the price no watch shoud be more then 10k perpetual or something this tip of watch 3k the most...
Theres no way this watch should cost more than 7000$. I have no idea what market is this made for, the majority of people wont buy an IWC instead of a Rolex,Omega,Hublot etc and the watch enthusiasts who would buy an IWC surely wont pay 13 000 $ for this.
It's a very odd choice and one that I feel IWC might've kicked themselves. Caché and all the Genta approved design stuff is one thing, but in such a saturated market... a brand name isn't going to be enough to justify the price, nicely said 🥃
Pilot hands on this watch look ridiculous… different is not always good… now the removal of the crown guards, that is something I can support. Have you handled this watch in the metal? I find it disingenuous to criticize something only seen through photographs. From what I’ve heard, the finishing on the case and bracelet is fantastic.
I agree, it seems somewhat soleless overall. Bvlgari's new Octo Roma is a much more elegant take on the genre. I like all of your changes except for the leaf hands, which stray too far from the technik theme. Glad you didn't swap out the butterfly clasp in an effort to add microadjustment, though. I'm not a fan of a big, bulky clasps on anything other than a proper diver, though they are very on trend right now since Rolex puts them on everything.
Hehe, I know they don't. BUT they have so much more "life" in them compared to the usual pencil hands that the other 6000 integrated bracelet models have these days 😉🥃
The design IWC came up with for this new Ingeniuer isnt that bad. It's the price. I think I, like most others, expected such a watch to come in at around $7-8k tops. Its roughly $5k above expectations. Once the price was disclosed at nearly $12k, I think that made a lot of folks shut down... It's nice. But, not THAT nice. I think there might have been less criticism if they didn't try to overhike the price based on the Genta tie-in. I think IWC is trying to put their Ingenier at the same level as an AP RO or PP N (and some done even think those are quite worth what they go for) and it just hasn't quite achieved the merits for that kind of high premium. Too long for me and I think there are videos out there that better explain, if not make an argument for, why the Ingeniuer isn't same level as the RO or Nautilus, for examples.
What are your thoughts on the Ingenieur? Should they have dropped the price way down to attract more people to this property? Is its design playing it too safe? I feel that with an effort to create such a 70's inspired, masculine design, much of its elegance and grace as an integrated sports watch has been lost in favour of too many derivative traits that we've seen too much of by now.
Agree with all your changes including the price drop and I’d add one more, micro adjust on clasp. IWC does great job on pilot bracelet and micro adjust but fail here. All the more reason to pay half and get the Mark XX!
I afraid I can’t agree with you.
Can’t place pilot hand on this as everyone will say that they just used what they has in the bin to make a new watch.
1970s model is what this model trying to recreate not the 1950s model. It is very similar and manages it elegantly.
Price is high ang I for one, think it could be cheaper. However it is in line with completion or better. Do you think AP is cheaper?
I think you have been a little harsh to what will be a very successful design model for IWC in recent years.
It seems like it's priced appropriately or even underpriced. All the ADs I've spoken to say it's already allocated 100%. Maybe they're not being truthful, but we'll find out shortly.
@@timeisahumanconstruct9251 I’m sure they’re going to go like hotcakes to everyone who wants to say “I have one!” Lol 😂 I still think it’s over priced but I guess anyone could argue that of any luxury watch! We’re all crazy in this watch obsession!
You already stated the problem and it's the PRICE. This watch should be $6000-$6500 max.
Thank you for your thoughtful reviews. I am an engineer and likely the center of the fairway of the targeted customer. The four main areas of your critique are the hands, crown guards, script and price. I have to tell you that I was invited to an early release video conference and fell in love immediately. I didn’t have the 1950’s reference in mind, but just looked at the new design with a fresh, new model perspective. All three of your main design enhancements could work well but I have to say that I prefer the ones IWC chose. I own 14 IWC watches ranging from simpler Big Pilots to the Ceratanium Perpetual Calendar and respect all of their design languages. After cost, the crown guards seem to be the most controversial elements. I think that today’s tool watches need a crown guard to firmly say “I’m a working watch and offer no excuses for my faded jeans”. Somehow guardless crowns feel like dress watches trying to be “tough” to me. In terms of cost, I am constantly in the market for watches in many price categories. After recently purchasing a Blancpain diver, GP Laureato and Rolex Skydweller, I’m pretty comfortable with the price points of the Ingenieurs. They maybe are 10% high and I guess the market will be the ultimate judge. I ordered the black face and titanium!
I agree. I prefer the actual model over the changes he recommends. I also prefer to the 1970’s SL over the 1950 original. I also believe most of the naysayers have not put one on wrist and experienced it in person. It’s a very masculine design but I do think there are elegant touches (dial is amazing in person, photos/video doesn’t do it justice, the polished edges on the bracelet and case, and the thin case feels very elegant on wrist).
Indeed the market will judge...
You are too well informed and speak too thoughtfully to be in a TH-cam comment section lol
I normally love crown guards but you sold me on your proposed design. Also, fantastic take on changing the hands.
You're the 1% who likes the handset change! Ah, welcome! I really dig the elegance of them but they would NEVER fly today (pun intended) 😆 Still, we can dream. Thank you Garrick 🥃
You have just said EVERYTHING I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS WATCH! But I didn't have the words for it. Perfect video... As always! ;) And I couldn't agree more
I love that your criticism always offers a solution. No other youtuber is doing that. 9/10 times your renders are better than the manufacturer design. You'd think someone would snag you as a consultant.
Great videos. I paid for mine on release date so asking price was not an issue in my opinion. I'm not a previous IWC customer, mostly Vacheron and Rolex so I don't have any outrage about the asking price. Most important to me, many similar style watches miss the mark on bracelet H link design (Czapek bracelet) or too angular brutal watch case shape (weird extra side angles on Royal Oak), bracelet flare beyond the case etc, so when this one was released I called my boutique right away. There isn't much I don't like about it. I would delete the crown guards if I could but on wrist these little things don't detract from the experience.
About 10 years ago, when I'd just gotten into watches and hadn't yet learned that you could actually take the caseback off of your own watch, I took my dead Seiko Flightmaster to a local jeweler in for a battery change. While I was sat across from this probably 80 year old guy at his desk, while he put in a new battery into my Seiko, I asked him about the gold watch that he was wearing. Yup, it was a 1950s IWC Ingenieur on a brown leather strap, with the ornate "International Watch Co Schaffhausen" script & dauphine handset. I remember him saying "It's an old IWC, you've never heard of them?". Needless to say, I went home and googled IWC lol. This new Ingenieur does nothing for me at all. Great video, thanks!
I always appreciate seeing your proposed design changes.
Regarding the watch in general, though-I can’t remember if you addressed it in the video, but I’m beginning to feel a bit of fatigue towards the whole integrated bracelet steel sports watch thing. I wonder how others feel and whether the industry is going to lean harder into it or move onto the next thing (only to come back to it later, since I’m sure this would be cyclical).
Fatigue has definitely stepped in (for the enthusiasts) brands are still pumping them out (and many are still interested) but I fear it'll be a fad... much like so many fashions of the times... As long as people keep buying them, the more they'll produce. Whether or not people will keep wearing them in the years to come is another question entirely 😉
The integrated bracelet won't go away anytime soon. It's been present for a while, it's nothing new, but it was mostly unaccessible for enthusiasts. Who can afford a Nautilus or a Royal Oak, Streamliner etc? Microbrands are only now giving us decent alternatives - Tissot PRX, Horage Supersede, C.Ward Twelve, Direnzo Mondial and so on. Major brands see the interested is still present, and so they refresh their models.
I think it will become just a watch type present in every brands catalogue - diver, dress, pilot, integrated...
I love your design of the watch! I think its universally agreed that the cost of this watch should have been around £6k-7k. I think that would have been fair. I was quite shocked when i seen the price of it and very disappointed.
As always a fantastic video 👌🏻 for me the dealbreaker with this watch is and will always be the price. No matter the changes I would never pay above 4 - 5k usd for this watch, it’s just not that kind of watch.
Very valid, if the watch arrived at half their recommended price we'd all be looking at it differently. It's frustrating how money ruins everything. And thank you Viktor! 🥃
@SaintWill agree. This isn’t the only one. I see IWC like Breitling - not accepting their place in the luxury watch pecking order up and down their catalog.
I'm laughing at the pricing too. However, with inflation I think they could ask for 6k, or absolute max 7k usd. I think it's a quality watch and well designed.
My favourite watch of this kind is the Czapek Antarctique, and the best cheaper alternative to that is the brand new Christopher Ward The Twelve. I'd much rather have that one for 1.2K than this for 12K, even if I had a spare 12K just for watches(which i don't).
Amazing what a decimal point can do 😉 It's such a pity that a brand like IWC could've undercut their steep competition and offered so much on top of it... money ruins everything, words to live by 🥃
I would love to see a comparison to the Christopher Ward The Twelve
Excellent analysis and spot on. I’m glad you wrapped it up the way you did. Before that it was leaning toward apologetic by proxy. Well done 😎👍🏼
I was honestly obsessing over this watch since the second it was announced, despite the price....until April 27th. Immediately preorded the titanium CW twelve. I know its unoriginal and borrows design cues, but I also really appreciate CW's honesty on that front in all of their marketing materials. Their designer came drom Czapek... Genta designed many very similar watches for different brands in the 70s, and yet we celebrate all of them today, despite their obvious similarities. I very well still might pick up the Ingenieur one day, but I also may look elsewhere for such a grail-level purchase, like a Reverso Duoface. I own a Mark XX by the way, and the movement has been nothing short of fantastic, but the Mark XX is priced so much better...
I love my blue dial MKXX with additional brown leather strap.
@@richardcollins586 I bought on bracelet and use a couple of NATOs too, but really want to get the IWC leather and rubber straps.
I agree, the fact the CW are up front about where they draw their ‘inspiration’ from completely defuses any criticism for me. They’ve been absolutely smashing it recently.
I don't celebrate those boring Genta things.
Great video as always and a great redesign too.. alot of people are underestimating this watch, give it time, this watch is going to blow up and then every person that thought it was too expensive is going to regret not buying it at the current price.. you have the perfect size, great design, attention to details, awesome history plus it wears like a millon bucks, what's not to like!..I know what you're all going to say.. the price, the movement... please people don't be so Karen about it and lets just celebrate that the INGENIEUR is BACK!!! I already put down a deposit for the Aqua dial.. now that is a killer watch! I can't wait! 💪⌚️😃🤘
@wolper2155 thank you my friend, I appreciate that. 🙂👍
As always, fantastic video & well considered. Whilst I often side with your designs wholeheartedly, I’m afraid here I think the only adjustment needed is the removal of crown guards & a thinner crown. Everything else imho (hands, markers at 12, text used etc) is spot-on. Aside the price. Should be £7K max. Cheers 🍻
As always some very good thoughts IDGuy. I think your summary was perfect when you said "PRX", I could not have put this better myself. Gerald was a great designer but once again it seems like it has become a trend in the watch industry and as we know trends do change over time. For today I'll stick with my PRX and remember playing those "Space Invaders" slot video games from my teen years. Tomorrow I might wear my Longines Sector dial and think of travelling by rail by a restored steam locomotive power.
I appreciate the 'grace' you added to interpreting a better design of the Ingenieur. Definitely more esthetic in blending all the history. I was intrigued by the watch until I read the price tag. That sank my interest.
I would enjoy seeing your take on the new CW Twelve. Now, that is much more intriguing. I wonder though if the dial texture is too much.
Hope you had a blast field trialing your BB 54. It would be wonderful to see field video in your future content.
Thank you sir 😉 I think you're one of very few who prefer my interpretation with the leaf hands but hey! The new CW is very interesting but wow, I'm wondering if Czapek won't be sending them a letter!😆
@@ID-Guy I am not familiar with the Czapek. I will have to check it out.
@@ID-Guy same designer, so probably not. We forget sometimes that Genta himself designed very similar watches for multiple brands. Not to mention CW is completely open and honest about their design influences in all of their marketing materials - it's actually quite refreshing the way they admit it. The 12 is like a love letter to Genta.
Your design of the watch is excellent and right on point 👍
Thank you brother, count yourself as one of five who likes it! 😆🥃
I agree that it's priced a little high, and I also agree that maybe we're done with AP and Nautilus spin offs.
But maybe that's the point!
I love the aqua dial version of this IWC, you have to see it for yourself!
The colour changes dependant on the light, it's hard to explain.
But the stripe/dot chequered texture is a fascinating aesthetic too.
The crown guards are brutal I agree, but is that intended?
I think it is, and I think it works!
It hits the centre line between the sharp, angular Royal Oak and the softer, more curvey Nautilus.
Some might say IWC have missed the mark, being late to ride the 70's vibe (and integrated bracelets). But maybe they've just defined the 'fashion' for 70's inspired integrated watch design?!!
PS - good skills with the graphics, but I don't think the 're-design' is any good though I'm afraid.
It would look more like it's counterparts then. Remove the crown guards and it's more like Tissot PRX.
I think they break up the symmetry, in a good way, but that's just my opinion!
Well, this whole rant has been my 'opinion', sorry folks ❤️
Agree with the logo at 12 o'clock and removal of the crown guards.
Well thought out presentation….with valid points.
I actually like your design more!…. The design team over there should be giving YOU a call!
Personally i like the watch , it would have been nice with the old script but all in all it's a great release . Always appreciate your thoughts 🙏
A pleasure to share JJ and thank you brother 🥃
Good try but still the most uninspiring and overpriced watch of the year so far
A real pity, too little too late it seems 🥃
if it sells out at retail then it's not overpriced. we shall see.
That’s why you buy the ixdao
Great thoughts as always. I’m a fan of the new piece, especially in Titanium. Price is interesting 🤔
A pleasure to share them sir! The ongoing Czapek v CW debate is going to be an even more interesting one 😉
@@ID-Guy amazing how it’s being sold as a fresh unique innovative design. Shame, disingenuous behaviour unexpected of CW
@@wisamal-hakim5531 The CW was designed by the same guy who designed the Czapek, so nothing disingenuous. Am not sure it’s even possible to design a new watch without looking like another watch, or watches.
@@_AlphaLimaGolf really? I didn’t know that. I’m surprised the Antarctique designer is now working for CW. Interesting. Regardless a lovely watch to copy/replicate etc
And yes I absolutely agree almost impossible to design a new watch that is truly different to anything else. Will you get one?
Another great video. The Ingeniuer is just a crazy price so the miss is by a mile for me.
I think it is well worth the time to look at the 1950s watch design language - not just for the Swiss giants but the US and U.K. watch companies - Bulova, Hamilton, and Smiths are my favourites. There is something about these watches that capture my heart. Of course, even as a geezer I barely remember the 50s except for the style.
Cheers
Great video . I had the version without the crown guards and the true in house movement and while it looked great it was an uncomfortable beast to wear . It was heavy it was thick and fast forward to this model they could not even bother with some sort of on the fly adjustment and for 12k you can’t afford to not be close to perfection …(I am aware PP doesn’t have it either )
I have to say, I think the watch is perfect. I love everything about it and is probably my favourite piece at the moment. As for price, I wish it was cheaper so I could buy it but it's so much Less than the others (you know the ones). IWC might be my favourite Logo. As for the crown guards, Oris aquis style which is the best part of the Aquis...
👌
I hav zero problems with the design. I think it looks great. My problem is entirely with the price. Both as compared to the competition, and compared to their own Model XX.
Mind-blowing how they blew the price out of whack 🥃
I love IWC but man the old International Watch Co logo is so much nicer than the current one ... is like night and day ❤JMB❤
Nice videos mate 🥃
Thank you for the video! I agree, not sure about the new design!
Leaf-style hands on pilot watches??
Have you ever seen a leaf?
Your design is cool 👍. Would take a very bold watchmaker to make those changes
I would put modern iwc schafhausen logo at the top. Followed by automatic script below and ingenieur at the bottom to provide symmetry.
Would like your thoughts on the Christopher Ward Twelve vs the IWC. Just released.
Fascinating new piece from CW. I'm wondering if Czapek will reach out and send them a cease and desist? 😆🥃
If you can't afford a watch for CHF 12,000, I'm sorry. This watch is a style icon and will always be. I don't care how much it will cost in 5 years. Watches are bought to be worn, not to be kept in a safe and expected to increase in value. I recommend everyone to respect the old Swiss brands because they deserve it. The rest is a matter of our taste and bank account wealth.
Nice render, bdw they’ve also already updated the clasp to easy adjust modern one used on the Mark XX (among other Richemont brands). It may be introduced as an option
Great job taking another approach to reviewing the watch - the movement/price has been covered and that horse needs no more flogging. Agree 100% on the crown guards - look like a last minute add on. Maybe a little too Genta for their own good. I’m probably in the minority but the AP and PP that this competes with are sports watches in name only. This crown guards are not needed.
IWC has a special place for me: remember the gigantic ads as one exited the metro on the Kowloon side in HK. Got me thinking about luxury brands being added to my collection one day.
How many gauss can it withstand , Faraday cage and all ?
I can see that you have immense respect for Gerald Genta, but I think you might be a little hard on this particular IWC Ingenieur; although you are correct about the crown guards.
My only personal complaint is the1990's "Ingenieur" typeface. It doesn't seem to match the rest of the design language.
My love for the flowy script is too much 😆I agree, overstepped it in a few places (much prefer what I shared on Instagram instead) Thank you for this brother 🥃
I love your videos. They are so different from other watch channels. Can you do a video on Czapek watch design? I'd love to hear what you think.
I used to work with a older scientist who'd been wearing his Ingenieur since he first started working in the 60s. It was a beautiful watch, simple, tasteful yet strong. A one watch for a one man for a lifetime.
Great video, as always. Like your design better and the price just feels like a cash grab on the Genta name.
You're one of about five people who like it, so hey! Welcome to the club Jay! Thank you brother 😆🥃
What's your reasoning for choosing the black and white palette?
Personally, it feels overtly dramatic and kind of pretentious but I'd love to hear your thought process behind that choice.
Who’s the artist drawing at the start is that an IWC employee? I’d love to commission them
I don't actually know but man... the drawing is gorgeous... to get such a clean final result with all of that layering is something else! I'm sure IWC contracted the artist directly 🥃
i think the crown guards have become such a signature element for the ingenieur, love them
So when are you doing the Zenith video? (didn't you acquire a Chronomaster? looking forward to seeing a detailed review of the Zenith plus a current SOTC.)
Please review the new CW XII and give us your thoughts 😊
A quickie from me is it's a far cooler design. More daring, interesting to look at (albeit a bit too close to Czapek) BUT still... compared to 12k and being 1.2k in some countries... amazing what a decimal point can do 😉 Frankly, they crushed it...
Great summnary - thanks for sharing. I agree with your point about pricing. How can Ingenieur be twice the price of a Pilot Mark XX when both offer a metal bracelet and the same movement?
Well thought out on your part, unlike the ingenieur. They've gone so far from the original ingenieur, then transitioned to the Genta design, then on to another then back to the Genta. This is obviously a Genta cash grab. Im glad you and few others have the integrity to criticize when it's warranted. I've seen others who were obviously paid to talk about the watch just gush about it, and gloss over so much. Subscribed, I'll be looking forward to more of your content.
Always appreciate your reviews and in this instance a constructive alternative. If we turned on our time machine and set it to 10 years from today, how would you feel that your Ingenieur design mod decisions might fare? I’ve been asking this question more and more over the years about the timepiece decisions I’ve made and frequently look back at how some of the watch choices I’ve made have fared. In this sense while no timepiece is truly timeless in design as any watch can only represent the era from whence it comes, there are some timepieces from every era that are drop dead beautiful, i.e. polerouter, Reverso, etc.
love the logo at 12 but they would never do that because all brands care about is continuity that's also why you'll never see another rose on a Tudor. However, I feel that putting the propeller hands on this makes no sense and takes away from the engineer aesthetic
I love stirring up the pot with designs sometimes 😉 And thanks for this Austin. The pursuit of timelessness is a double edged sword 🥃
Amazing video and completely agree with the design feedback. I would be more inclined to buy this with the changes you suggested given the price. I own the Mark XX and feel that watch is fantastic with a reasonable price point. Would I buy this iteration if the price were 1-2k more than the Mark XX? Yes. But it’s not and so I scrutinize the overall package more and can’t justify buying one.
Like your changes, but how about a recessed crown into the case?
It's a TOOL WATCH correct? The crown guards protect the crown so they have a REAL FUNCTION for craftsmen who work with their hands. If IWC wants to make a watch that competes with $80,000 luxuray brands then make it with a name that ISN'T ENGINEER.
it will make a great second hand buy in five years time ,,, thats it.
Deep burn 😆 Feeling you on this though... that's if the Integrated watch fad lasts that long 🥃
@@ID-Guy thats exactly what they said forty years ago , ,they just have not gone away ,,, think two tone ,, low and behold the two tone explorer, if it was right then , its right now ....
if you want new ideas , read old books.
Dear Mr ID Guy, Hope you’re doing well mate.
I just wanted to say how I look forward yo you pulling apart the design attributes of watches, explain and then give us your interpretation.
However, for some reason I’m already sick to death of this watch.
I don’t dislike the brand, but give me a break with GG design.
With respect, of course…🤗
You're not the only one sick to death of the integrated craze Dave, don't worry 😉 Thankfully I've got a Tag Heuer & Omega clip in the works as we speak, no integrateness at all! 🔥 Thank you as always brother 🥃
@@ID-Guy Dear Mr ID Guy, that new Tag Heuer Chrono is 🔥 clean and sharp. I hope the brand becomes stronger and gets some more ❤️ from the community. Have a great weekend bud.
Great analysis regarding the crown guards. This model was over engineered and they lost the art of Genta’s original design. I would have kept the pencil hands. That’s pure Genta. 🥂
Well said Matt. Those crown guards... just...why? 😆
What do you think of the new ‘Christopher Ward ‘Twelve’?
They need to do like GP did few years ago cut the price for the laureato with 40 procent.
You should do a video on the Baume & Mercier Riviera.
Man... Really loving your redesign... For me, let's be honest - even with your design, I would not be affording a 10k IWC.. I guess they wanted to capitalise on the Genta hype. Oh well... I will keep saving and will go for something special some day, but this will not be it.... p.s. currently may grab a bronze Hamilton Khaki 38mm.. Fun little watch that will develop patina which is pretty cool..i hear they're very nice to wind too..
Loving my 70s Seiko Skyliner, but that little crown makes hand winding tricky... WHY IS EVERY DAMN WATCH ALMOST GREAT BUT ALSO JUST NOT GOOD ENOUGH !>!?!!?!?! hehehehe
Hope life treating you well man. Let me know next time you're in Edinburgh
Personally I love it, and I do think I will probs buy it next year. But then I'm judging it purely on what it is now and paying no care to what it might have been in the past. I love the design (IWCs not yours - with respect) and I'm happy to stump up the money to have it.
That Petronas dial is such a winner for this machine too! 🥃
I was really excited about this release at first glance, but ultimately it doesn't seem justified for all the reasons you explained here. I was in the watch shop the other week and ended up getting offered the GP Laureato in green at a price a hair below what this new Ingeniur retails for, I couldn't say no. The GP is brilliant.
Great video. I think stick hands and indices similar to the first edition of the AP Code on this watch would have looked amazing. Why does every company have to tick boxes, cramming lume on every watch and ballooning hands and indices. On a side note - Would love to see a video of your thoughts on the Emmanuel Gueit RO Offshore, seeing as its the 30th anniversary this year😉
I was so excited to see this watch, but that turned into disappointment, especially these enormous crown guards, Genta's Watch never had them, so why I have them now? Also the size of the watch and it's thickness, it's just too big and too heavy. And last but not least Genta's case integrated with the lugs, but on this new one the last link of the bracelet goes into the case which is the opposite way it was originally done, I think that makes a huge difference, because that was where Genta was so clever, he added a unique piece of design making the watch case extend into the bracelet. Thanks for the great video, I really am disappointed to be critical of a watch that had so much potential, and I agree with everything you said. To have the full experience only the original will do!!
Nice perspective. It would be great if you were able to compare this to the new Christopher Ward 12… It brings so much to the table at a fraction of the cost of this one not to mention things I did you see I don’t think even could’ve accomplished.
Agreed, especially the thinness!
I think your version of the Ingenier
Would sell. I would certainly contemplate it.
You're probably the only person who likes it so far 😆 But thank you Michael! 🥃
@@ID-Guy 👌🏻
How about the crown at 22minutes past
Like Seiko 5’s of old
I can't get past seeing American flags in the dial texture. If I'd been in the market for this watch that would have been a no go.
Agreed on the review on all counts.
IWC across the board needs to reduce prices 25% and this Ingenienieur is the worst offender on price.
I can’t help thinking that being part of big group has played a major part in the shortcomings afflicting the new Ingenieur. IWC claimed it took 6 years to bring the new Ingenieur to market. So, it sounds like the accountants at Richemont must have spent a very, very long time deliberating on the rate of Gentax they wanted to add to the SRP, whilst design subtlety, finesse, and definitive holistic character took a back seat (or were determined by committee).
I totally agree with you design suggestions, not least the ‘International Watch Co’ script, after all IWC has a rude urban slang meaning….
From what I’ve heard most of IWC’s focus now is on restricting availability of the Ingenieur - they seem to believe this, together with the inflated price, is a part of the design!
And then there’s the butterfly bracelet, with no micro-adjust or half-links, on a watch costing 5 figures 🤔. Oh, dear.
When I look at the dial, I'm reminded of a Wise Adamascus.
I would have put the iconic 12/6 Ingenieur numerals from the 3227/3228 on this model as a nod to the IWCs of the 2000s. The IWC logo at 12:00 is a little “on the nose” with the GP Laureato
yes the leaf hands would look better. perhaps chrome outlines centres filled red. along with the outer batons 😍
It is hard to justify such a price.
However, some things are worth mentioning : date that starting as 01, 02, etc. then 5 days of power reserve and thickness of 10.8 mm.
Imagine they gave us a watch like this for half the price with all of those amazing features? Ah man... it would've been killer! 🔥
@@ID-Guy Agree, it would be release of the year in my opinion.
The problem start when you want to make iconic watch even more iconic and that is double edge sword in my opinion.
@@divjan3990 It's a pity how money ruins everything too. They could've had SUCH an edge over the competition by dipping their price down and undercutting everyone... Surely brands want their watches on people's wrists? 🙄
@@ID-Guy would like to know your thoughts on baume mercier's riviera 10715, same movement, similar but less appealing variation
Excellent points and great to get into the Genta/Rams/'50s design weeds! Love your render (the old cursive script!). But finesse, sophistication... IWC?? IWCs modern design direction absolutely pains me - generic, crude and blind to their own heritage. Like other Richemont tribute brands, they're now a pastiche of their former glory, a theme brand majoring in conventional, obvious luxury, while their heritage and culture is anything but. The Ingenieur typifies this - nice enough, but ultimately derivative and safe. And the price just cannot be ignored because it is an insult to their customers. This sort of egregious gouge needs calling out - nearly twice the price of Santos, 3x the price of a Riviera? 11X the price of a CW 12..!
It makes me scratch my head actually. To debut a NEW Ingenieur only for it to look like a less inspired version of the 2005 variant with an even more sterile presentation... I just don't get it. They want it to be timeless but it also ends up looking lifeless? Immortality has its pitfalls 😆
Changes I would make to make it great in my opinion:
- Remove crown guards
- Offer a 37mm case size
- Lower price to round 8k to 9k USD
Nice points here brother. I wonder if they'd ever think about bringing sizes down to 37mm? Will this watch world go smaller collectively? 🥃
I like what they did, and I like what you did, but I prefer logo choice on theirs if I am going to nitpick.
Why a designer at IWC would think he knows better than Genta, and puts them bloody awful crown guards on!
I think the first CG's arrived in 2005... and somehow it stuck over with this new example... I don't get it either 🥃
It’s playing at too high a price point I think. Certainly a good watch but not sure why you wouldn’t just have the Zenith Defy for a lot less money and still with an in house movement.
great and informative video as usual… though there is one thing i am not convinced like you… i don’t think iwc made anything wrong with this new interpretation… first the minute and hour hands should not be like you suggest a mixture between 70‘s and 50‘s style, purity and clarity to follow the 70’s was the goal , and the other items different texture for schaffhausen , no crown guards to give this watch more elegance ? in the 50‘s that’s right it started with more dressy style but in the 70‘s the focus was and should be more form follows function and industrial design which this design achieved in my opinion… to put several styles of this icon into the same design would have been an overload … so regarding minute markers , and minute and hour hands , they did a great job , more puristic… but i admit this could be long discussion, just want to put my thoughts into and wondering if you understand my points 🍀✌️
ok, well that wasn't the direction i thought you'd go! For me, lose the crown guards and the date window, but the hands, hour markers, and logo placement are perfect as it is. What this watch needs is the better time only movement from the Big Pilot 43, with its sapphire case back, and add their micro adjust clasp. All the elements for this exist within IWC, they simply chose to use less expensive components to make a higher margin. The price point is fine, but they needed to come to the table with a better movement to support that position.
Too bad the original is not available.
Wonderful work
I think IWC nailed the design, but agree that the price is too high for the movement you get. Yes the finishing is excellent, but then is it really 6 times better than the new Christopher Ward Twelve-it isn’t to my eye, at least from photos. I suspect these will be discounted at the AD in a year or so.
No idea why they thought that they could bump the prices of these so high that even during its release people were scratching their heads 😆 Your suspicions will be correct methinks 🥃
In summery the Christopher Ward twelve is going to sell well.
It's a fine watch imo, it's so much cheaper than an AP or Nautilus, the iwc brand name carries a lot of prestige so it's worth it imo
I totally agree with you 👍
But, it is not the RO… or Nautilus. Everything has its place (and price point)
@@markalbert1333 exactly. TBH if I were in the integrated Watch mood I’d consider the GP Laureato over this. Movement would justify the price. IMHO IWC is living in the past. This could have been the offering to bring new people to their brand.
@@WestCoastAce27 totally agree with you. The Ingeniuer is a golden ticket to (finally) be an equal to the other highly regarded integrated sports watch… but it is not yet there. It belongs there in theory, so to get there, they need to have worked their way up first 😂
Hear, hear, I could write a book on how many watch brands get their typography wrong.
I miss brands beautifying their scripts... alas... it's something that I now scrutinise today before making choices 😆🥃
The 3227 series is was great; The Mercedes AMG versions in titanium push that Ingenieur idea even further.
My issue with the watch is the bezel. It’s upside down compared to the original Genta design.
Stunning design and watch. Yes, you can buy the Mark XX for far less, and you should, if you want a Mark XX. if you want and Ingenieur however, buying the Mark XX would be silly, regardless of price. The crownguards are beautiful, and of course work very well here. Buying a PRX? A CW "The Twelve"? and compating it to this? cheap looks cheap, but, up to you.
Great 👏👏👏
The watch is great,we would all like to change something but it is subjectiv,I would like the open case back but it is what it is...about the price no watch shoud be more then 10k perpetual or something this tip of watch 3k the most...
Nicely said Nikola 🥃
Check out Nivada Grenchen F77
A faaaar cooler watch! Great shout! 🥃
Theres no way this watch should cost more than 7000$. I have no idea what market is this made for, the majority of people wont buy an IWC instead of a Rolex,Omega,Hublot etc and the watch enthusiasts who would buy an IWC surely wont pay 13 000 $ for this.
It's a very odd choice and one that I feel IWC might've kicked themselves. Caché and all the Genta approved design stuff is one thing, but in such a saturated market... a brand name isn't going to be enough to justify the price, nicely said 🥃
Agree. They will sell these mostly to their existing base. Huge whiff bringing new customers in. I’d even go $9k.
This will be a very rare piece in the world because there will be not too many people willing to pay the crazy asked price.
Pilot hands on this watch look ridiculous… different is not always good… now the removal of the crown guards, that is something I can support. Have you handled this watch in the metal? I find it disingenuous to criticize something only seen through photographs. From what I’ve heard, the finishing on the case and bracelet is fantastic.
I agree, it seems somewhat soleless overall. Bvlgari's new Octo Roma is a much more elegant take on the genre.
I like all of your changes except for the leaf hands, which stray too far from the technik theme. Glad you didn't swap out the butterfly clasp in an effort to add microadjustment, though. I'm not a fan of a big, bulky clasps on anything other than a proper diver, though they are very on trend right now since Rolex puts them on everything.
the leaves hands actually dont belong at all
Hehe, I know they don't. BUT they have so much more "life" in them compared to the usual pencil hands that the other 6000 integrated bracelet models have these days 😉🥃
The design IWC came up with for this new Ingeniuer isnt that bad. It's the price. I think I, like most others, expected such a watch to come in at around $7-8k tops. Its roughly $5k above expectations. Once the price was disclosed at nearly $12k, I think that made a lot of folks shut down... It's nice. But, not THAT nice.
I think there might have been less criticism if they didn't try to overhike the price based on the Genta tie-in. I think IWC is trying to put their Ingenier at the same level as an AP RO or PP N (and some done even think those are quite worth what they go for) and it just hasn't quite achieved the merits for that kind of high premium.
Too long for me and I think there are videos out there that better explain, if not make an argument for, why the Ingeniuer isn't same level as the RO or Nautilus, for examples.
It’s almost as nice as a PRX
Almost, but not quite 😉🥃