What if Japan Won the Battle of Midway?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
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In 1942 Japan lost the Battle of Midway and so began their eventual fall by the United States. But what if during WWII Japan didn't lose the Battle and instead pushed on?
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This is a pretty quick and simple video due to the subject matter. However the wait won't be long for the next video which will focus on a Turtledove book we all know, *cough* aliens *cough* WWII.
Yay, that guy again!
AlternateHistoryHub ..... what?
AlternateHistoryHub I commented
AlternateHistoryHub Could please do a video about a Roman Army in the 1st or 2nd century C.E . Invasion of Sub Saharhen Africa.
The Worldwar franchise, to "spoil" it. Oh, is anyone working with you? Like say, EmperorTigerstar? CosmicMapping?
“What would have happen if Japan won?”
“They would have lost”
“But what if they won?”
“No”
-american made video
@@velcranoxofficials9970 luckily there is literally no way the Japanese could win the war.
@@FishwicksREAL there would have been a way: destroy the Pacific fleet, Pacific naval yards and the Panama canal within the first few months. The US wouldn't recover from that in time and sending their Atlantic fleet all around South America or the Indian Ocean wouldn't have been a great idea (just like Russia in 1905). That wouldn't have been easy, though.
@Stefan B. The Panama Canal was over 3000 miles away from Pearl Harbor so the Japanese wouldn’t have enough fuel, Japan only had a 19% hit rate so they probably couldn’t have hit them, and the aircraft carriers were hidden so the us probably could’ve won battle of midway anyways
@@quocthainguyen9288 Theres a way Japan could if they had beaten US at Midway crippled their Carrier forces like their Battleships then flopped on the beach they return to the island chain where they had aircover the Yamato and sister ship and Japans supercarrier and submarine projects would have time to be implemented along into carrier groups also Japan would have kept key pilots that were lost if the US tried anything in far west Pacific they'b be decimated Japan would have a huge well supplied fleet and with China beat Japan would have the Islands well defended build naval guns and could focus on producing ships US could outproduce them but it would be unlikely they retake guam and other naval bases due to local airpower and the carrier fleet the US with all its carriers would still be outnumbered every push would hurt the US fleet if they force taking Guam Japan could only lose like 1 Carrier, 1 Battleship, 2 Cruisers to USs 5 Carriers,4 Battleships, 12 Cruisers and not take the island
To be fair, it wasn't incompetence, as much as bad luck that ultimately lost the battle. Those bombers getting lost and accidentally finding a sitting duck fleet was really a stroke of luck ;)
Not to mention all the planes defending that sitting duck were too low to stop dive bombers because minutes earlier they had just shot down torpedo bombers. Also they were mid changing armaments on the planes and the bombs where just laying on the floor of the hangar, they were essentially floating powder kegs.
It wasnt a stroke of luck, they went to their former position and found the destroyer Arashi who was looking for the USS Dauntless and followed it back home to the fleet
While luck was present in this battle, the sacrifices of many of the first torpedo pilots helped save the day, as it forced the Japanese carriers to take evasive maneuvers and delayed them being able to launch aircraft and switch out the armaments. There are usually a lot of factors that sway the outcome of a battle, and Midway is no exception.
@@patrickazzarella6729 I think maybe he was being sarcastic about the luck part
I don’t agree with luck. That’s just war. Who’s to say that Japan didn’t stumble across pearl by pure luck? It’s not luck just men trying to kill men
What did Admiral Yamamoto say to the Japanese minister of war after the US Navy was not completely crippled at Pearl Harbor?
I Tojo so....
Oh me, such silly jokes, stop it you sexy man!
Noice 👌👌👌👌
Medic! Oh God, I'm hit, I'm hit low...
Well he actually said something along the lines of "if we do this I can only promise you around 6 months of complete control in the pacific.
@@ReaverLordTonus dammit that joke was mine XD
During the months between pearl harbor and midway, Japan conquered half of asia... the philippines, papua-guinea, french vietnam and singapore, indonesia and so on
Cojimoto Misashi
Yes, but they also suffered a draw at the battle of the coral sea.
during ww2 philippines was in the hands of the USA
Funny 2 years after Midway the US Navy pulverized the Japanese Navy
Sreekrishnan Kp Nah, the Japanese took the Philippines and occupied it for much of the war. If the Japanese hadn't taken that, we would have had a pretty decent place to attack the crap out of them with.
@@---uf2zl Japan won at the Coral Sea. They lost only a light carrier whereas the Americans had lost a fleet carrier (Japan also believed the Yorktown had been sunk, so in their eyes, it was doubly as successful). In any case, the damage Yorktown took was extensive.
What if Cody’s cat shut up at 3 am?
More snuggles. -nod-
He would get a full night's rest, and videos would actually come out on time.
Brendan Murphy The universe would dissolve into an amalgamation of all the cruelty existence has caused
I like mine better. :-p
"For half a year both sides basically didn't do anything." What about the battle of the coral sea?
It is nothing XD
Or the Doolittle raid?
look, I like japan just as much as the next guy, but there's no situation at ALL where the Japanese could have possibly won the war, they simply did not have the industrial capacity to do so. even if they had figured out that aircraft carriers were the next important technological advancement for force projection, they still would have lost due to the sheer industrial capacity the united states had at its disposal. hell, even if the u.s didn't figure out about those neat things called aircraft carriers and build increasingly large battleships instead they would have still won. besides, I like modern western-influenced japan. not shitty imperial rapey japan.
@@mgpmisterk2322
Japan should assault the Soviet Union...then USA if wish.
@@mgpmisterk2322 but if they won midway it would leave america out of the fight for the next 6 month's. They would go on the defensive and unlike our timeline, be better at defending. They knew they couldnt take on the us head on. They would do what Vietnam did in the Vietnam war and hide. Wait for america to attack.
Guys I have the script of the next video! Here's the full text:
"What if Poland won at Wizna?
This video is sponsored by World of Warship. If you really like PtW games and grindhell, have a look at this great game.
So, what if Poland won at Wizna, the famous 40:1 battle? It's simple: they couldn't have.
This video was sponsored by World of Warship, the famous online multiplayer wargame that puts you in control of the most powerful ships of World War 2 (only after years of grinding or shiny coins). You can play it online against other people playing online in their computers."
Messer Morfeo haha seems like Cody is turning to the Dark Side of cashgrab
Warships unlike tanks isnt grind hell and it doesnt take that long to get a T10 as long as youre semi-competent and you can make profit at T10 also unlike in tanks
This video is good, what did you want to hear, lies that Japan would have beaten the US? He needs to pays his bills, of course he's gonna be sponsored
Dude if you actually know history, then you would know that the Midway military base was basically a fortress. They had tons of aircraft and personnel waiting. There isn't much to speak about. What did you want to hear? That Japan was a mighty match to the American Navy? Um, it never was. Both Japan and Nazi Germany had brilliant ground troops, that when managed well, could have taken over Europe, but that's it. Their Navy would never ever beat the American one. That's it. I think the video did justice. It was a good roast of Japan
Nithin Srivatsa Then title this video "why Japan lost at Midway". What's the point of an alternate scenario if you don't want to create it in the first place?
Is this possibly the shortest video in years? Basically sums up Japan's hopes against America
Saltius Maximus thief you stole my logo
Lord CRYO I liked his comment cuz I love parodies
I would have won aganist USA if transported in to the Japan Empire.
This video is bullshit japan would take midway and then hawaii and the united states would surrender. I mean come on how is 400 men gonna defend against 4 carries thats just bullshit.
@@shadowcobra69 400 soldiers on the island
Wasn't the main objective of the battle of Midway by Japan was to destroy the American carriers?
Admiral Yamamoto specifically mentioned that Japan was to pursue for peace after dealing a major blow to America to have more power on the negotiating table.
Also i totally dont agree on the "Japan just flops over". Without naval and air supremacy in the local area, Midway would just pretty much end up like Tarawa but for USA.
You're right to point out that one of the operation's major goals was to draw out and destroy the American carriers. I agree with his overall conclusion, but I think he is underselling how devastating the loss of three carriers would have been.
To your second point, good thinking bringing up the battle of Tarawa, but there are some key distinctions that need to be mentioned. At Tarawa the Americans outnumbered the Japanese 10 to 1. The IJN's invasion force consisted of 2,000-2,500 marines who would be facing 5,000 American marines stationed on Midway.
Tarawa was a bloody battle despite the fact that the American invaders outnumbered the Japanese defenders 10 to 1. If things played out similarly, Midway would have been a bloodbath with American defenders outnumbering Japanese attackers 2 to 1.
At the battle of Wake Island Japan had a 5 to 1 advantage and still ended up taking 5 time the casualties as the outmatched American defenders. Japan would have needed to send 10 times as many marines to have any hopes of taking Midway.
So why did they send so few? For one thing, Japan didn't know just how many Americans were on the island. They were operating on outdated intel, which is why they were planning on properly surveying the island after defeating the Americans and gaining air superiority. Maybe Japan would have held back their marines after seeing how well defended Midway was, or maybe they would have focused on capturing a toehold that they could hold onto until reinforcements could be brought up.
So yeah, on one hand I agree with the video in that Japan would have been cut to ribbons if they just pressed forward mindlessly. But if they did destroy three American carriers without losing one of their own then they could have pressed their advantage cautiously to put America in a pretty bad position. So I agree with you that just saying "Japan just flops over" is a bit of an overreach.
That said, it's hard to imagine that things would have worked out any better for Japan in the long run. Japan was defeated in the ship yards, not the battlefields. Holding Midway would not have improved their ability to replace ships as America destroyed them and I don't think it would have convinced America to surrender.
America would have had to delay major offensives by six months, but then they would have had more fleet carriers then Japan and would have gone on the offensive (I'm looking at the actual ship build rate for both sides) www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm explains it in more detail.
Well the key would be to destroy the fresh water facilities on Midway, wouldn’t it?
even if they won at midway japan would still have lost the war just america has such a massive advantage in industry it would've just taken longer really
The US built 24 Essex Class carriers. Each superior to every other carrier in the world and with larger air arm. There is simply no way Japan could have won that war.
Moral of the story:
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall;
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again.
Make that "All the EMPEROR'S horses, and all the EMPEROR'S men", because the Japan had/has an emperor.
Wait... huberis? That was the whole point of that rhyme?
Another version:
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall;
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Said "Fuck it, he's only an egg".
They never actually say that Humpty Dumpty is an egg.
Ben Garfath Humpty Dumpty was actually a cannon
Actually, had the Japanese won the naval Battle off of Midway, they would have been able to take the island itself. Midway did have a garrison, but it wasn't exceptionally large, and it was damaged during the naval battle. And while the Marines manning Midway were relatively capable, they didn't have coastal batteries that could deal with Japanese battleships and cruisers, which were the bulk of the Midway strike force that the Japanese deployed. The four fleet carriers were their most important naval weapon, but the did have battleships and cruisers that could and probably WOULD serve in a shore bombardment role.
And Japan had done PLENTY of this in the Pacific area since December 7, so there is no reason to assume that they couldn't land successfully at Midway. Japan wasn't like Germany with regard to amphibious warfare... Germany didn't start real research into that sort of warfare until 1939... the same year WW2 started in Europe, and wasn't anywhere near ready when France fell in 1940... Japan DIDN'T have that limitation. They'd been developing amphibious warfare tactics through the 20s and 30s and HAD the landing ships needed to do so. And they applied them well early in the Pacific War...
They made landings at Wake Island in 1941. They made landings in the Philippines in 1941. They made landings on Guam in 1941. They made landings in the Dutch East Indies (modern Indonesia). And so on... So it wasn't as though they were just "shaking their fist" at America from December 1941 to the summer of 1942... And neither really was the US. In fact one of the problems in the Pearl Harbor raid was that they failed to get the American carriers there those carriers eventually launched the Doolittle Raid on Tokyo. The raid did little real damage, but was taken as a cultural shock, which then inspired the decision for the 1942 campaign to take Midway along with Attu and Kiska in the Aleutian Island chain...
And had they somehow won the naval battle... Japan would have been able to take the island. As the island itself was not so well defended that the Japanese would have been defeated on the ground. Without the US Navy there... Midway would have been overrun.
However, capturing the island might not necessarily win the war. As while they might gain Midway Island and that would put the Hawaiian islands within range of land based bombers flying from Midway... Japan didn't have the manpower or fuel reserves (even with the Dutch East Indies under their control) to keep expanding at the pace they'd been at after Pearl Harbor. Which could well mean that while they'd take Midway Island, they wouldn't have the resources to then leap to the Hawaiian islands in the near future...
That's ultimately where I'd agree with your end point... That Japan really didn't have a chance... At least they didn't given the circumstances of history. America outpaced them in both population and industrial capacity... From 1941 to 1945, the US built some 20 fleet carriers of the Essex class (and they built even more light carriers and escort carriers) while in the same time, the Japanese built at most 5, one of which originally intended to be a battleship. So... unless America just surrendered because it'd lost a battle, as the Japanese expected, Japan didn't really have a shot in the war as a whole.
Japan did build more than 5 but 2 were converted whilst some others were only finished by 1945. Even that is not enough to match USN though. And i don't think US is gonna easily surrender after the loss of all Pacific Carriers. Not like you cannot go on the defensive and use the airbases on the islands to sink the enemy's floating airfields.
Japan didn’t do so well in taking Wake and Midway would have been a tougher landing versus bolstered USMC.
Japan had the industrial output of the state of Ohio in WW2. So it was Ohio vs entire USA in military production. A Japanese victory was samurai fantasy as even Yamamoto knew.
TheAmir259 - I agree. In the bigger picture, Japan was badly outclassed with regard to industry and population and that winning one battle wasn't going to win the war...
Paul Gee - Japan had a lot of weaknesses with regard to the war as a whole, but in the Summer of 1942 with the US Government largely taking a "Europe First" strategy, that doesn't mean that Japan was incapable of taking Midway island...
As while the Marine garrison may have been strengthened from its peacetime status, it wasn't going to be large enough to defeat amphibious landings supported by aircraft and naval gunfire. The garrison on Wake Island did fight hard, and given the circumstances did far more than what the Japanese expected, but without any real naval strength to relieve the island, Wake Island DID fall to the Japanese. Midway really wouldn't be any different.
And while I agree that America had massive economic advantages over Japan, that has more to do with the war as a whole and not necessarily with one battle, particularly at a point in the war when much of America's industries were being retooled from peacetime production to war time production. One cannot snap one's fingers and expect every industry to be ready and arranged over night.
Sam Nary Thank you. I was very dissapointed by the lack of research and effort put into this video, and you just about summed up why half of what was said in the already short video is simply wrong.
The Midway atoll is, as seen very clearly in the footage provided, *very* small, and *very* flat. With a superior naval force in the area, nothing would be able to stop not only a successful, but an easy steamroll of a Japanese landing. With no hills/(volcanic)mountains to provide any cover, the US forces stationed there could have been subjected to weeks upon weeks of naval bombardment without much protection other than concrete bunkers under sand. Some resistance would likely survive, but with the islands being so small, it would be possible to provide direct supportive fire from the warships onto any defensive positions even *during* a landing itself.
It is ofcourse self-evident that Japan would've eventually still lost the war, as you mentioned as well.
I relate so much to the "my cat is enver going to shut up at 3am" line lmao
*sigh*
Everyone did. Thats why he said it. To be relatable. He is an entertiner. It is his job.
I feel cheated by this video :/
Yeah, I mean, what if Japan had the power of God and Anime on their side? What would've happened then, huh!?
It's kinda like what if the T34 was never invented or what if the Battle of Stalingrad was lost, the war would still end in German failure because the overall strategic numbers have always been stacked against them.
Well, of any of the changes Gavin Yong, that Germany might have had a better chance with... It was simply being nice. When they walked in there and started shooting, pillaging and raping at times and making the invaded fear the invaders far more than the Soviet's themselves, well then, now they had the actual bigger population and area against them. If they instead tried to fight a war in which the soviets could be rebelled against by the Russians themselves, then well, maybe they would have had a chance.
The answer of this video was obvious. When you look at the ship number the USN in the last year of the war, they were utterly ridiculous huge, compared to the IJN. The fate of the war was only decided at Midway with just how hugely the Japanese lost to a few number of ships.
ltflak Then why make a video about it?
This is the most disappointing Cody's video ever. I love it
the worst coby video ever
“If the general cannot control his temper and sends his troops to swarm the walls, one third of them will be killed, and the city will still not be taken.” -Sun Tzu
oof
That cat joke killed me, I understand your pain
Unever Studios good for you i dont understand
I understand
Why invade when they could just blockade midway until everyone on the island starved?
A wake part 2
Nobody lives on Midway
@@Bigboy-mm3dd hes talking about the military personal on Midway lmao
Japan didn't have the logistics to maintain a blockade and it would have tied up resources needed elsewhere.
@@Crosshair84 what logistic? We are talking about an island in the middle of the pacific, with the US fleet destroyed and planes at the time unable to do journey from land, a few destroyers would have done the trick, heck, even torpedoe boats.
What if Spain joined the axis?
I have to wait 90 days to change my name France falls more quickly then they did in our time line.
France falls pretty quickly... Gibraltar would have fallen.... operation torch was not possible in this timeline bcuz the entry to Mediterranean is now held by Spain...and Mussolini wouldn't have been such an embarrassment
Sif 90 agree with u bruh who the hell needs the Spanish army when the German war machine can enter Iberia through France and guard the Gibraltar....
Sif 90 the thing is if Gibraltar is guarded no re-enforcements will arrive on allies side the only way to Africa is blocked so invasion of Italy is impossible until Gibraltar is again taken by GB or USA
Imagine the Chaos Spain would be if their population knew that USSR was pushing towards Berlin and Franco sided with Hitler.
2nd Cvil war incoming
What if the US join the central powers in WW1
Squiby very unlikely
they'd get slapped by a chinese guy
Squiby Watch zvallid's video about this.
He's already explained it in the Confederate video.
Sir Jaojao not really there was a lot of sentiment to both sides before they joined
Basically if Japan had taken midway the us would’ve been on the defensive trying to secure Alaska and Hawaii giving japan the ability to invade Australia
Japan couldn't invade Australia even if they wanted to. Their forces were already overstretched securing their Asian territories, while suffering massive casualties fighting the Chinese.
At best they would occupy port Moresby and Darwin but thats about it.
No
they didn't want australia tho it wasn't in the southern expansion plan
Imagine if Japan had to defend themselves on a tiny pacific island halfway across the pacific from the most powerful military power in the world while also fighting the British and Australians.
What if Australia won the Emu war?
No memes about it
Seriously though fuck Emu's, they need to be gunned down, nasty fucking ratbirds.
Ww2 would have never happen
Following the nuclear blast a large part of Australia would become an irradiated wasteland.
This would only be a temporary reprieve because giant two headed mutant emus would emerge from the killing zone and terrorize Sidney and Melbourne.
What if the emus had declared war on the Australians and took over the country
Can you make a video about what if Russian Empire won the Russo-Japanese war?
If Wargaming pay him to do so
Soviet Onion He only does tose videos along side his actual videos, these videos are just bonuses
Probably all that changes is that Russia gets full control of Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands a couple decades earlier then in OTL, they'd probably also grab the Liaodong peninsula so they could have the warm water port they wanted. I doubt they'd have conquered anything more of Japan, even the (at the time) sparsely populated Hokkaido; the Russian Empire couldn't administrate and wasn't interested in administrating a distant, densely native populated and highly nationalistic and stubborn colony like mainland Japan would've been.
THUS
"how about, you chill ☞"
3:48 you’re welcome
"What if Japan Won..."? Wrong. Japan uses Yen, so they cannot have Won.
DeepSpace12 Thats funny
Underrated Comment.
The Privileged Capitalist more like comment most americans wont get
ah ! i've caught a fine specimen ! now for some tests ..
ahem .... *TRUMP SUCKS !!!!*
What would happen if Japan won one of the most important battles in WW2? Nothing. They still lose because they didn't have the power of anime and God.
Image 13137 AHHHHHHH!!!
Image 13137 Well Japan was too cocky of its own good. They only thought of Victory in every Battle. But like Hitler found the hard way, America was a sleeping Giant that need a kick in the ass to get it started. Pearl Harbor was that Kick in the ass. After Pearl there be no Mercy or forgiveness, After all America was dragged in by Japan.
If Japan ever Attacked Pearl Harbor the American People would stay out of World War 2 because it was Europe's Problem not America's. although FDR wanted America to join the Fight against Germany, Italy, and Japan there be no reason of America to join. But Japan give FDR a reason he been waiting of and America join the struggling Allies, all the way to Victory!
First Name Last Name Second paragraph, third word, put an "n" in front of it.
This battle is only important because the Japanese lost. If they had won it, it would just be another footnote.
@@fristnamelastname5549 Wym they were cocky bro you are clearly uneducated, the japanese were perfectionalist and were the best in naval warefare in doctrine and in experience, this video was so biased, if you are still there i can tell you my reasons bro.
I don’t think we could stopped invasion of midway as we didn’t stop them at Philippines with 151,000 troops vs their 129,000. Midway had less then 3,500 troops who could just be bombarded to hell for days before ever landing troops. Just as we bombarded islands before sending troops.
So I think if they wiped the fleet out then taking the island would be cakewalk
Plus a blockade would starve them out. No fresh water on midway. You dont even have to invade, just cut off their supplies
I feel like Japan May have put up a fight, but they could never have taken Midway. They were just to unprepared and facing a more organized American force. Even if they won, the war still would have been lost, just at a much slower pace
No they could not, they would be attacked by the nearby aircraft carriers unless they took them out first, but this was not part of the plan.
Their statement that if even if we had lost our carriers they could not have successfully invaded Midway seems idiotic. They would not only have had their carriers and aircraft but they had SEVEN battleships which could have patiently bombarded Midway into ashes. At Guadelcanal there was a huge difference when the Marines were bombarded by Japanese battleships rather than heavy cruisers. It seems a foregone conclusion that if they Japanese had won at Midway they would have easily taken possession of the island.
@@johnmabbett6586 Actually it was the whole plan. The battle was specifically planned by Yamamato to destroy the American carriers in response to the Doolittle raid.
"Sail the ocean blue in 1942." Nice one.
What if the Germany had accustrike nerf guns during World War I? Would central powers win?
Maybe if they figured out how to make them out of metal and fire Tankgewehr rounds.
It's nerf or nuthin'
YES
but germany DID win world war 1
Definitely
Right... the US success of invading and defeating much larger Japanese forces on these islands had nothing to do with the fact that they had overwhelming air and navy support
Yup. I don't know why you can't think Japan would fail here when given those same advantages.
"Sale the ocean blue in 1942."
I see what you did there!
*sail
@@andymadden8183 Sale on the big ocean blue for limited time.
what if the seven cities of gold really existed?
John Garcia
I like it. I like it a lot!
Simple: Hyperinflation. That much gold entering the economy would make gold essentially worthless, as literal cities with streets that have been gilded have far too much gold to reasonably enter the world economy of the time.
There would be lots of wars.
John Garcia I love it, CCCCCOOOODDDDDDYYYYYYY do it
Well, gold as a material is pretty worthless in the first place. Unlike copper or iron
A quick reminder that main objective was not the island but to destroy the remains of US navy, Victory over it would destroy the last carriers in the pacific and grant Japanese control over pacific. Also there was one mistake made by Japanese during Midway it was assigning Chuichi Nagumo to control Japanese fleet and air force. And American victory over Midway was pure luck.
Said Zzed Japan made plenty of mistakes. I don’t think assigning Nagumo was the issue.
The IJN simply didn’t know how to utilize their large advantage of vessels.
The IJN had a 11-0 advantage in battleships over the USN. The best place to use those battleships would have been to shell both islands of Midway.
Too many IJN vessels just sat and did nothing. Having Kondo’s invasion force south of Midway was a waste. Any invasion force should have come later.
Quite a few cruisers and destroyers and 7 battleships and 1 small carrier the Hosho (15 planes) were sitting back 300 miles from Midway. The carrier should have been used in the battle. The were mainly made of fighter planes to give CAP.
2 battleships should have come from the northern point of Midway and 2 from the South. The Musashi from the west.
This leaves 1 fast battleship and still and bunch of cruisers and destroyers to head east past Midway.
It wasn’t necessary to send a force to the Aleutians either. 2 small carriers the Junyo and Ryujo plus 82 planes and 3 cruisers and destroyers could have used at Midway.
The IJN could have also brought a 5th main carrier the Zuikaku. Probably 70 more planes. IJN could have had 9 carriers at Midway plus close to 500 planes.
Had the IJN planned to just “wound” the carriers with their planes then finish them off with their vessels they could have simply stocked more Zeros.
Imagine a Northern Force, Western Force, and Southern Force. 3 carriers in each force. They are not leading the way. The battleships are. Some planes launch and pass the battleships and the island is initially bombed by 50 planes with 100 fighters knocking out the US Midway planes.
The battleships arrive at Midway island. 2 from North and 2 from South. Their long range guns make Midway’s guns not reachable. Hard for the US to cover for both air attacks and island shelling.
Destroyers and cruisers from the South speed past Midway and looks like they are heading towards Pearl Harbor. The Soryu and Hiryu and trailing and the Zuikaku further behind. This force will then head North and cut off any escape route for the USN.
The Northern Force is made up of a split force with the Akagi and Junyo further north than the Kaga. This force is heading east trailing behind fast cruisers and destroyers.
The Western Force has the Ryujo, Zuiho, and Hosho. This force still has around 85 planes plus other cruisers and destroyers.
So what would the USN have done. Would they launch their carrier planes and hit the battleships to stop the shelling of Midway?
Would the US use their planes to hit the approaching Northern fleet?
Even if the US planes try to go after the IJN carriers...they are all split apart and not easy to find. If they allow the IJN destroyers and cruisers to move ahead then the US risks vessel vs vessel warfare.
If the USN fleet is wiped out here then the IJN just starves Midway. Continuous shelling and air bombing. Cut off the fresh water.
His faffing about before committing to the armament swap and having all that ordinance on the hangar deck was the critical mistake.
No, man Nagumo often gets much unjust blame.
If you want an ACTUALLY good account of the battle of midway, settle down for the 90 minute 3 parter by Montemayor. Part one is now I 17 months old I think and sita at 8,5 mil views, while part 2 and 3 made 300k views in a week, releasing this August.
It's got Animated Battle maps and is told from the Japanese perspective so that you actually understand that and why Japan lost more than the US won...
Pure luck we anticipated the attack and played accordingly
@@Cheekclapper5000 Not pure luck, the Japanese code was broke by the US. The US basically know what the Japanese was planning.
What if Germany won the Battle of Stalingrad
We're going to say Krankenhaus instead Hospital
What if Prussia... did... something...
Just do a Prussia video!
Kievan Rus ok Want if Austrian Empire won The Austro-Prussian war
Didn't quite like how this video turned out.
Feels a bit pointless if we're going to end it with
"It was inevitable."
True, it may have been, but with such a title, I feel duped out of a Japanese-Victory scenario that isn't the out-landish "The Man in the High Castle" scenario.
You should do "what if the Italians weren't shit at war?"
What the bloody hell happened to the Italians? After Rome fell they became a liability in war.
Raving Rando It's always just waiting for them to switch sides.
Italy: Ital Ital?
Germany: Ich can't believe I'm allied vith you.
Massimo Mazzetti Well it did. Mussolini was kicked out of his own facist party. The new goverment started peace negotiations. It basically left the war.
Raving Rando well the big problem 'round WW2 was they didn't have a coal or oil industry which you needed one of to either A. run motorized military equipment, or B. sell so you can use money to expand your army.
Well....an ad. Maybe the channel will rebound with the upcoming Turtledove videos. Last several videos have been a real letdown. Just advertising for sponsors essentially; at least it feels to me.
Hopefully he won't turn into another Matpat.
1. The Japanese were very busy during the six months after pearl harbour, look it up.
2. The Japanese navy were not incompetent. They were undoubtedly the most experienced navy in the world when it came to aircraft carriers. They were headstrong and unsubtle, but that was a cultural thing.
3. The Midway defenses would have been bombed heavily ahead of the attacking forces. That was the main reason the Kido Butai were even there.
4. The plan at Midway was to heavily cripple the American navy. The Japanese wanted to win the war the same way they had beaten the Russians. If they crippled the American navy then they could negotiate for peace with the Americans with a lot of bargaining power. They knew they couldn’t defeat the American industry in a drawn out conflict.
Found the weeb
I doubt even then the united states would surrender. Such a thing back then would unfuryate the public in that time.
@@Rodrick-rx4hd he isn’t wrong
@@PremierCCGuyMMXVI no he is. The Japanese navy was not the best in the world. And even if they were they would not have the industrial power to replenish their lost assets.
@@seantamburrino7446 he’s right they could have won the battle of midway, a drawn out conflict? Unlikely, remember the Japanese Empire pushed the Americans out of Southeast Asia pretty easily
What if everyone spoke one language?
No language barrier.
Less War, tho it would still exist.
I disagree about Japan getting slaughtered on the beaches. With the US Navy gone, it would be all too easy for the the Imperial Navy to cover the land invasion with shelling, bombing, etc. Midway Islands, unlike Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, etc. are just 2 islands that are mostly beaches. It doesn't have any mountains or rough terrain for infantry to seek extensive cover in. Odds are that the Japanese infantry storming the beaches would initially get slaughtered but not for long as all the American positions would be revealed and hell would rain down from above.
While Japan would still most likely lose the war itself, I don't believe anyone can really put up much of a fight on 2 small beach islands with no naval support, while the enemy has ships like; the Yamato raining 460 cm shells down on you.
Yamato? The Yamato? That ship was barely in any battles. It would stay for a time but would leave after some time. That ship was nearly worthless because everytime it took major damage they'd left. As someone once called it, "The right ship but placed in the wrong war." American planes took it out. I doubt that ship would do anything during midway. Interesting idea, just planes were the way of the future.
The Yamato had to refuel every couple hundred miles due to its monster engines. Even if they had knocked out American Carriers, and magically kept all of theirs, the Airbase on Midway could wipe Yamato, a incredibly large target, and any others into the sea. The Japanese Air Force was weaker than the U.S., loosing AC’s about balances it out. But then being stretched on Supply and having superior numbers would tip scales back to the Americans. As Cody said, the only way for the Japanese to not loose to the Americans is not to declare war at all.
@@alshnevermore3741 which is true in OUR time line but in this scenario, the US navy has suffered two major naval defeats and there isnt an aircraft threat to hound the Yamato
Then you're just making the American's out to be stupid.
@@Roamingeast uhh... Midways still had airbases?
Add two years to the Pacific war if after Japan had destroyed the Pacific Fleet then had followed up destroyed Pearl Harbor and the airfields on Oahu.
Dude if they destroyed the 3 carriers in midway then the american fleet would have not supply the japanese in guinea and japan is literally free to do anything for 6 MONTHS
This video was sponsored by Battlestations: Pacific. Oh wait...
That would make sense, pretty good game.
Yoy
Just a question Cody, are you interested in countryballs?
RedEuropa y tho
countryballs is autistic and cancerous
Probably yes, he mentioned in one of his podcasts, but then later on scrapped it.
>Countryballs are autistic
>haha get triggered more, all your clay is mine.
??? I don't seem to get what you're talking about... triggered more?
Polandball/Countryball has been on the decline for a while. the highly immature and cringey fanbase doesn't help either.
The most worthless video in history "they would still lose haha"
Most historians say that the IJN would have domination over the Pacific for at least 6 months, in war that is a long time. They may capture Midway? They may threaten Hawaii? They may feel free enough to attack USSR shipping and help the Germans out? How would the next naval battle play out?
The thing about American shipyards winning the war on their own is just a myth, you still need to destroy the enemy. What good is it to pump out aircraft carriers if they keep getting sunk against a superior and as yet undefeated IJN ?
I deplore the whole "haha it was impossible for them to win" especially when the US navy's own wargames showed the Japanese should have won this battle every time.
The United States of America has a very simple win-by-quantity strategy in wartime. Not by quantity of soldiers but by quantity of equipment thrown at the enemy. The overpowered US economy, once properly streamlined to a war effort, can easily replace any losses in ships they take. Japan couldn't crank out ships that fast, every battle where the US lost ten ships and Japan lost one would long term result in one less Japanese ship in the pacific. In a war of attrition, the US wins 100% of the time, just more piece-by-piece. And the only way it wouldn't turn into a war of attrition ist with a successful invasion of the US Mainland.
Threatening Hawaii isn't enough for a surrender. You have to threaten Washington. Or better yet, conquer Washington.
Japan just wasn't going to beat the US in WW2. The best outcome would have been to stall the US long enough that war exhaustion set in at the homefront and the US would settle for a white peace. Or somehow long enough to complete the process of subjugating East Asia and turning the massive potential of China into a streamlined war machine of their own.
what ever nerd
It really is a shit video. He assumes the Japanese, with complete naval and air superiority after a theoretical total defeat of the American navy, is somehow going to get slaughtered on the beaches because the Americans won the island war.
Well, duh, the Americans won the island war because, after Midway, the US had Naval and Air supremacy. They could blockade an island, choke it off of supplies, bombard it for several days, and then send in a well-supported landing force. The Japanese, starved of supplies, tried to stop the landing, inevitably ran out of supplies, and the suicidally charged because they had no hope of relief or support.
Midway's land-base aircraft were all out of date. Hypothetically, long-range bombers taking off from Hawaii could fly in and support, but strategic, long range bombers were almost useless in naval combat because their bombs are incredibly inaccurate and take a long time to fall from 20,000 feet. The long range bombers that were stationed on Midway were effectively useless in this conflict, despite achieving tactical surprise on the Japanese carrier fleet.
Now, in the long run, is the American industry going to overwhelm the IJN? Probably. But would American will to fight last following a devastating defeat and with Japan threatening to capture America's most significant naval base at Pearl Harbor? Again, the US probably stays in the fight, but the course of the war changes significantly because the American navy no longer has total supremacy in the Pacific. The Japanese navy was crippled after because they lost too many of their best pilots and aircraft.
And it's not like Midway was a guaranteed victory even with the extreme value of America's intelligence advantage. If C. Wade McCluskey turns back to the Enterprise when he's low on fuel, the only air group that finds the Japanese fleet is Bombing Group 3 from the Yorktown. The American fleet blows their tactical surprise and gives the Japanese time to launch a coordinated counter-attack.
What if instead of the emoji movie we got an amazing animated motion picture about one of the most recognized and influential Cartoon characters of all time
What if Germany took Africa
Erwin Rommel Germany would get oil and probably blitz through ussr during operation blue
Erwin Rommel in WWI or WWII?
Merkel would spread even more "peaceful migrants" into mainland germany.
You'd have more oil resources though so that's fun.
You still would have lost due to the fact your industrial capability was so far behind that of the US and USSR. Even with unlimited oil the fores of Nazi Germany would have been overwhelmed
There are too many what ifs in life
I’m going to be completely honest these are something I look forward to because ww2 is on my favorite historical time periods and history my favorite I honestly truly loved these video and what ever do please on Gods green earth never stop making these videos
Nahhh I'd rather wait for War Thunder ships mode. If I was ever interested in ship battles.
Keep waiting.
Txtspeak you do know that WOT fans said the same about the ground forces don't you? And right now its superior in every way to WOT...
WT ground forces is shit *grab popcorn*
flipping cod ww2 tank mission is better than WOT.
Opinion
Honestly Cody your editing has become fenominal (idk if I've written this word right)
*Phenomenal.
I hope the video ain't American-biased. 🤣
what do you mean by that? i disagree with the flop at midway but it wouldn't be a crushing land defeat the u.s.a had something like 150 aircraft on the island and who knows how many japan would lose in trying to destroy the
u.s aircraft carriers and how many us planes would land at midway after the u.s carriers are destroyed
cabbage man midway is only 2 tiny islands, there wouldnt be enough room or fuel for 150 planes, most planes from the us carriers would probably have to ditch and swim to shore, what ever planes made it to midway would be tightly packed on to airfields and hangars, so they wouldnt be able to launch any large scale air offensives maybe a few air patrols/scouts and sorties against the ijn fleet with little effect. The parked planes would be easy targets for japanese ships and planes and the garrisoned troops would be pounded but they would probably hold off like Wake island and eventually surrender
@@kennooo535 They already had 128 aircraft on the island
if Japan couldn't have won either way what was the point of this video?
It's so people wouldn't get mad at Cody for not uploading.
So that people know they couldn't have won
I think the point may have been that no matter the result of that individual battle, the US had the industrial capacity to win the larger war.
Sweet, sweet sponsorship and advertising revenue.
Darth Kieduss to satisfy curiosity my good sir.
What if America joined the Central Powers?
JCtitanic15 that would be interesting.
Then the Central Powers would've won.
Central powers win a Pyrrhic victory, first subduing Britain with ease but coming across some trouble trying to invade Russia. However Russia eventually falls after a long drawn out war with massive casualties on both sides due to the combined industrial might of America and Nazi Germany combined. Italy sits in the corner and sucks its thumb.
Vsolid so everything but the Italians war strategy changes?
Slappy the clown ??? We’re talking about WW2.
Japan was actually not confident at all at the start of the war, Yamamoto actually admitted that Japan had no chance of victory after the first 6-12 months of the war
Jpan knew going into the conflict that they couldn't win a long war because they couldn't match American production and manpower, which is why they tried to crush American morale through decisive victories.
Sadly for them, America did not break, and so the war was doomed.
What if germany lost WW1? thx
AngryScottishGinger Germany did lose WW1. It’s called “history.”
Swoosh
Persian Aryanism WHAT
AngryScottishGinger m8 you've been playing too much Kaiserreich
Oh yes, I see you haven't checked Erich Paul Remark's Fuhrerreich. It's about having the Germans lose the Weltkrieg.
It will be explained that after the American entry on the side of the Entente, Germany has been totally overrun by early 1919 by the forces of France and Britain. The Austro-Hungarian Empire is torn into pieces, with most of its Balkanic regions been changed into puppet states under Serbian authority, and the Hohenzollern dynasty is deposed in Germany, being changed into a weak democratic republic.
As a debt of war, France occupies the western bank of the Rhine; spending their energy by struggling against the German patriots, the Entente lets the Soviets win the Russian Civil War, establishing a communist Russia that takes control of formerly German Eastern Europe and Northern China.
In a context of political violence and Red Scare, Germany soon falls into anarchy, partly occupied by French forces and constantly having to deal with communist or monarchist riots. The western democracies themselves, with their Parliaments full of patriotic and chauvinistic war veterans, soon fall into an authoritarian system.
In this chaos, a man arises as the leader of an anecdotical party, the National-Populist Party of German Workers: Adam Dressler is a war veteran from Sudetenland who caught syphilis in the trenches. After a bloody coup tentative in Berlin, he is condemned to only 9 months of jail by a corrupted court. In jail, he writes a manifesto detailing the future that his crazy mind has imagined: a giant German Empire stretching from the Atlantic Ocean to the Pacific one, after the extermination of all inferior peoples and the creation of a perfect man. After his release from jail, he begins an electoral campaign that seduces the humiliated and exhausted German: Dressler is elected as President of the German Republic at the end of the first part.
As President of the Republic, Dressler soon establishes a xenophobic and militarist dictatorship, along with the immoderate personality cult that gives him the title of Leader, or "Führer". Western democracies, weakened by internal disputes, let him annexing German-speaking parts of the former Austria-Hungary, and ally with the vainquished powers of the Weltkrieg. The German armies easily overrun France, and is rejected by the British forces during a landing attempt in Scotland. Motivated by his own anticommunism, Dressler then decides to invade communist Russia. After first success, the huge Russian army finally destroys its German enemy, and the whole continental Europe is soon invaded by the communist armies.
I can't help but wonder, what is the point of advertising a video game that EVERYBODY knows about?
Wargaming just want to attract more people to play their games and HOPEFULLY, they buy the premium ships Wargaming has to offer.
I ask myself that every time I see a Coca-Cola ad.
Jason Fischer that would be a consumable
Blazar Craft Yeah?
honestly, WG ads is super annoying
If Japan won ; they’d only delay the inevitable.
Seriously tho ; the United States lost in Africa and they still won . The USA would gain experience from losing sure its closer to the mainland but japan wasn’t going to anything
The United States was already in full swing producing the shit out of everything to the war effort so it’s possible the Japanese navy could’ve been obliterated at Hawaii
USA is like factory for war, set it off on any country and it'll win
America's superpower is to be able to lose and keep on trucking.
@@frenchsoldier8485 The USA is an almost unique nation, especially in the middle of the 20th century. It straddled the Atlantic and Pacific, having numerous warm water ports on both. It had near inexhaustible industrial resources located within its borders. And those resources and the bulk of it's industrial capacity were far outside an enemies ability to strike. It further had the ability to move those resources between Atlantic and Pacific with relative speed and ease. The only other nation comparable at the time was the Soviet Union. The outcome of war with either was inevitable as sooner or later the shear economics of the situation would catch up and overwhelm the opponent. All of the Axis powers faced major limitations in industrial resources. The biggest being fuel. That is ultimately what the wars were about. The belligerents seeking to seize fuel resources. A famous statesman once described was as "Diplomacy by other means", which isn't exactly true. War is ultimately "economics by other means". The root cause of war is almost always economics.
@@andrewtaylor940 I'm aware, after all, there's a reason German troops tried to take Eastern Poland, because it had sweet oil
Pretty much, Japan could of won and took over Hawaii and they'd still lose eventually.
What if Cody didn’t sell himself out?
Riley Miller bitch he needs that money to pay for college.
I would have really liked to hear what strategic mistakes the Japanese Navy made in Midway.
I want more details about the midway island defenses.
I HAD TO STOP KATYUSHA EARRAPE FOR THIS
I was listening to that as well.
Just look up stalins singing schoolgirls. You won't be disappointed
I must be on every watchlist then, come get me CIA.
Chandler Short what even is that also don't send me links because I won't click them
YOU WATCH ALTEENATE HISTORY HUB? It's Emperor Leroy!
3:28 "As much energy, or men, or planes it threw..." lmao
"I love 'What if scenarios'...
"This could've happened..."
"This should've happened..."
What happened?
The US developed the atomic bomb first.
Who will be the eventual Victor?
Atomic bombs didn't matter much, they were no more destructive than firebombing. They destroyed no more buildings, killed no more people. Just different flavor.
They were dropped pretty much to try and intimidate the soviets
Love your videos, but you should put less emphasis on your sponsorship, they are a large chunk of the video, which is kind of disappointing as a long term viewer.
Steven Sitzman unless you send him a check regularly you can't complain. Man's gotta make money somehow
Joesolo13 If the quality falls too much, he won't have audience. Without the audience, the sponsorships don't come. Even ignoring the time spent on the sponsorship, this video was very poorly done with little to no apparent research put into it.
The main problem is that he doesn't really address the scenario. He just goes "Japan made a bunch of mistakes that made it impossible to win. If they somehow they win the naval battle, they don't take Midway." That is the entire video's content. However, the Battle of Midway wasn't just the naval part. If Japan doesn't take the island, then they have not won the Battle of Midway.
Normally, he tries to give at least *some* information to set up the scenario, but he didn't even bother with this video.
otako spotted
I’d just like to say that I really appreciate how to the point and short this video was. I would have liked a little more on why Midway island was very unlikely to fall to the Japanese as that has often been over looked but I was really happy that you brought it up at all.
Several important points are omitted.
First, Yamamoto knew that if the U.S. carriers weren't destroyed at Pearl Harbor, Japan would probably loose the war (Luckily they were at sea when Pearl Harbor was attacked). He knew that the United States' industrial might would, in time, overwhelm Japan. Midway was a chance at redemption (a 2nd chance at crippling our carrier fleet).
Second, even though the U.S. had cracked the Japanese code and knew of the attack of Midway (the fake freshwater shortage story), they didn't know where the Japanese carriers were. The U.S.S. Nautilus was led to the location of the Japanese fleet by following a Japanese destroyer, the Arashi. Up until this point, the U.S. forces at Midway were losing badly. Nagumo compounded the situation when he decided to change the mission of the planes on the Japanese flight decks. The torpedoes were removed from the planes (left on the flight decks), while the planes were rearmed with bombs. When the U.S. planes started finding their mark on the Japanese carriers, all the munitions left on the flight decks made for an impressive 4th of July show. Three of the four carriers were sunk and the fourth was heavily damaged. Japan never recovered from this loss.
Had the Japanese fleet not been located, Japan probably would have ended up with air and naval superiority at Midway. The planes and their destroyers would have bombed the snot out of the island before attempting an amphibious invasion. The invasion would probably have succeeded (the Japanese military was not as inept as you make them out to be). The loss of Midway would have put the United States on the defensive for quite some time, prolonging the war.
how the fuck would losing Midway prolong the war or even put the US on the defense? do you have any idea just how much the US was able to produce at that time?
like holy fuck how can you be this shortsighted.
even if this somehow prolonged the war through your magical thinking. JAPAN WOULD STILL LOSE THE SAME WAY. aka making the entire idea pointless.
wow all these mental gymnastics to at best make the war take a few more months to end.
More important question, would Anime exist in smaller or larger quantities?
The Lich King MK not at all
No nukes = no anime.
hard to invent anime if your nation doesn't get cucked by atom bombs.
What a weird coincidence; I was just talking about imperial Japan and nukes.
TheMewx 'tis strange
TheMewx 2 days ago in history my class was class was talking about WW2 mainly the pacific and the nukes.
>What if Japan Won the Battle of Midway?
>"Nothing would have changed, the US would have still curbstomped Japan, the best strategy for them was to not attack Pearl Harbor in the first place"
>What if Japan Never Attacked Pearl Harbor?
>"Russians would have defeated Japan AND Germany, Japan would have become a communist state"
I have a feeling Cody doesn't like the Japanese very much. Next up on AlternateHistoryHub, What if Japan Never Invaded China? The shocking twist will surprise you. (Spoiler: China stops Mao's revolution, invades Japan, deposes the Emperor, and makes them a satellite state)
A month before the Battle of Midway there was the Battle of the Coral Sea where the U.S and Australia smashed Japan so by the time Japan attacked Midway they were already on the back foot not only with naval battles but with the losses on their island hopping campaigns that were first slowed down and halted by Australian Forces. Midway was the nail in the coffin for the Japanese offensive in the Pacific but a lot of other battles built that coffin around them.
Rip that guy at the end, you will be missed.
The point of Midway wasn’t to take it. It was to draw the American carriers out and sink them. And then use that pressure to try to force a end to the war. Japan just wanted the US to take down their blockade on them, not actually take their territory. So it seems a bit disappointing that the purpose of the “invasion”, isn’t looked into here.
What if the Gallic Empire was never conquered by emporer Aurelian and remained a separate Empire from rome
Meta Knight
Gallic Empire
"Gallic Empire" (Latin: Imperium Galliarum[note 1]) is the modern name for a breakaway part of the Roman Empire that functioned de facto as a separate state from 260 to 274.[note 2] It originated during the Crisis of the Third Century.
Meta Knight, not gaul ,gallic
No one thinks the gauls were an empire that'd be ridiculous. The gauls were a tribe that were conquered by Rome. The gallic empire was a separate part of Rome that separated for a few years and then returned. I'm not saying Gaul they were not an empire they just share a similar name.
LET me clarify while yes they share similear names they were separate entities. You can look it up, they existed years apart and had different cultures since the Gallic Empire area had already been under Roman rule for years. They were different entities at different time.
What if Napoleon won the Battle of Waterloo?
Same situation really, it would have only delayed the inevitable.. Had he won it would have only meant a victory against Britain, Prussia and the Netherlands. He had still pissed off the rest of Europe and probably would have been crushed by Russia had the UK failed. Not only that but the UK was in a position to just keep trying until it succeeded given that Napoleon had little chance of matching Britain's navy to the extent that he could invade.
Folks forget that Napoleon crushed the coalition 5 times before he went down and even then he got back up. If the 7th failed there would have been an 8th, 9th 10th etc. until they did him in
My one problem, like with most Midway scenarios, is that it's very pacific centric and doesn't mention the effect this would have on China.
Japan's main focus prior to Midway was on the Chinese front, and their actions elsewhere were intended to supplement it. The ground campaign in China mostly stalled out in the late 1939 after the failure to take Changsha(combined with other setbacks around Wuhan the year prior) and so Japan needed to shore up it's flanks. They took Indochina to cut off one of the two main supply roads, attacked American and British targets in December 1941 to take out their initial fleets, and then conquered the Southeast Asian regions to secure resources for the war in China and to cut off the Burma Supply Road.
Alongside getting resources to continue the war, the secondary objective was to put some buffer distance between the Home Islands and the main threats, the UK and the US. The intent was that once the conquests were complete all the garrison troops on the home islands and Taiwan could be sent to China, giving them enough manpower to win the war by taking Chongqing/Chunking. This was delayed somewhat as after the Doolittle Raid it was decided the American carriers had to be neutralized, cue Coral Sea and Midway, and after that with the fleet crippled they suddenly had to divert those new garrisons to hold off the Americans.
Had Japan won at Midway and the Coral Sea and secured the rest of New Guinea, while yes, America would have had her fleets rebuilt by 43 and would outnumber the Japanese either by 43 or 44 depending on how things went, there is a high chance they could have knocked China out of the war in 1942, as their army could go full force into attacking towards the capital. China's army at the time was not in great shape with most of the German trained divisions lost at Wuhan and Shanghai, and even in our timeline Japan mauled them badly in 1944 at Ichi Go when in worse shape with less troops. A full strength attack in mid 1942 could very well have forced China out of the war, securing Japan more resources and freeing up many divisions to garrison the islands better.
America still would have probably won eventually, but it could end up being a more limited surrender that lets Japan keep Korea and Taiwan
Idea: What if the cold war never happened?
Tennessee Mapping it unavoidable as long as America didn't socialiste or the USSR capitaliste.
Play the game Prey.
It's not unavoidable... The cold war would never happen if it was a warm war. AKA world War 3.
1ProAssassin You aren't wrong.
The Patton plan? Meet the Russians...and engage?
Can you please cover the following scenario:
What if Italy joined the central powers in ww1
Okay Cody, here's a curveball you never considered. What if the American Aircraft Carriers were sunk at Pearl Harbor. While Yamamoto executed his attack on Pearl Harbor brilliantly, he knew the fact the Carriers were still in play would come back to bite him in the ass and it did. The Hornet and Enterprise were instrumental in both the battle of midway and the Doolittle raid on Tokyo, without naval air power in the pacific, the US would have had nothing to counter Japan's massive carrier fleet. Most of the major victories of the war could not have been won without our Carriers and midway was no exception, what carriers remained in our fleet would have likely been the Lexington and Yorktown, both of which at some point were sunk or heavily damaged in the early years of the war. Japan's objective to take Midway was to create a defensive ring around their empire. Making Hawaii the only remaining toehold for the US in the pacific and there would be no way for the US to launch a direct assault from there. Also, not that they would have even tried, if the Japanese took Hawaii, the US would have been forced to the negotiating table as the mainland US was now under threat. Yamamoto made it clear to his superiors, he could wage a successful campaign against the US for 6 months but if Japan had not forced the US into an Armistice before bringing its massive resources to bare, then they were sure to lose. Despite what we know of their failed island defense campaign, the Japanese actually had some impressive victories invading the British, French, and American Colonies including one victory over a British garrison that outnumbered them almost 2 to 1, so with proper planning, they may have stood a chance to take midway island which would have essentially been a second day of infamy.
I'm not much of an online gamer with Battleship games I was just interested in the alternate possible history of Midway that's all that's pretty much it thank you very much alternate history Hub I love your work please keep it up
4:20 nice spongebob reference.
That movie was probably my favorite war movie I’ve seen in the past decade. Dunkirk and 1917 were also great.
I love how the game being sponsored is related to the video, clever girl.
What if the commune of paris had succed ?
Joao Ferreira France would be Communist that's all.
This is the premier argument for why an island nation should not attack a nation that literally has a continent of resources.
One change I can see would be to pop culture. Specifically, Star Trek. The flagship of several series is the Enterprise, which was named such because of the USS Enterprise CV-6, a ship which fought at midway. If that ship was sunk, chances are the creator of Star Trek would have gone with his original thought of Yorktown. A small change perhaps, but an interesting one. At least to me.
Japan basically lost four carriers because one destroyer happened to say "ok fuk that submarine; I'm going back" at the right time.
The IJN Arashi was trying to tail the USS Nautilus, who was tailing the Japanese force, but lost the Nautilus during the chase. She just decided to turn around at that moment a squadron of lost bombers flew overhead.
They followed her course and you know what happens next.
The amount of salt on the comment section is quite astounding, People just don't understand that imperial Japan during WW2 was an inconsequential stain compared to the sheer naval, military, and industrial might of the US.
Once the US won the Civil War, our fate was sealed as a super power nation. Japan could have defeated a United States that was divided North and South.
What if Charles V didn’t divide his empire?
Who came because they saw the midway movie?
Video Title: What if Japan won at Midway
Video: There is no way Japan would’ve won at Midway
Wow what an exciting history discussion
If the japan fleet defeated usa at midway, it would take it also or it would bomb it so hard that it would vanqush from the map...
I already know the answer to this. They would sustain significant damage and casualties while the Americans are routed in far worse conditions. The Japanese celebrate their glorious victory however, with the arrogance of victory they neglect the far superior US military industry that manages to rebuild and refurbish within a years time (and significantly outproduce the Japanese industry). Within 2 years the IJN is reduced to sawdust and scrap metal and the United States seizes a victory as they did in our timeline, just a bit belated. Now lets see how "great" this video has illustrated these points as they would have occurred if Midway was won by the Japanese Navy.
*I really liked the video btw, far better than some of your other, more sketchy videos*
A.) I like that you stated that the Japanese would be "mowed down" while attacking Midway, as the island was preparing for the potential naval invasion and would be very well entrenched. Not to mention the fact that the Japanese were *far* worse at naval invasions than the United States was, their only success with expanding was when they caught their enemies by surprise and after that they were nearly on the defensive the entire war.
B.) I love that you brought attention to what I mentioned above, with Japan being completely incapable of defeating the US navy considering the massive industrial advantage the US had. Even though you made this scenario with unrealistic scope, being the entire navy group was destroyed, I love that you used that drastic circumstance to illustrate Japan's hopelessness with finding victory in attacking the United States.
Thus, I think this is probably one of your best videos as of late. I am an old fan, and I have stopped enjoying your videos as much when they take sort of ridiculous and completely unreasonable turns as you can see with my criticism of your Cuban invasion alt. timeline video. This video was overall well done and it deserves a big fat like.
I think you limited this too much to just what would happen with the Pacific war. The US was also fighting Germany, which was considered a greater threat. If Japan won midway there may have been a butterfly effect of cascading events concerning the war in Europe. Say Japan wins midway, then the USA decides to shift focus to defeating Japan first. Because of this the Soviet union doesent get as much help from the US and loses the battle of Stalingrad. Or thay still win but d-day gets postponed. Stuff like this.
U.S. military was massive and considering the Germans didn't have naval superiority even against the British, even if we took a significant portion of our Atlantic fleet and stationed it in the Pacific, it wouldn't change the outcome of the war. Furthermore, the Soviets in no way needed our assistance, they would have defeated the Germans on their own. In addition to that, D-Day wasn't until 44' so the U.S. fleet would have recovered and Japan would be on her knees still.
They would have never taken Midway, plain and simple.
Who here wants to see a timeline where Japan won WW2, but not Germany and Italy, just Japan.
AlternateHistoryHub what if Spartacus won the Third Servile War against Rome?
Go Hiro!!!
Benito Mussolini I see you everywhere
Benito Mussolini boss even Bosnia and Montenegro would have done Better
No.
DiscoverSaussagio dude even if Japan Had a competent leader they still would Loss
The National Fascist Party i don't think so lol
I think you missed the whole point with this simplistic view. IF Japan had annihalated the US Carriers, they would have had air superiority at Midway. I don't care how good the ground defences were, they would have just been bombed back to the stone age before the landings. You are also forgetting that Japan had big bad assed battleships like Yamato and Musashi that could have pounded the defences into oblivion.
Jon Sayson the us would just make more carriers or send other carriers, it’s not like they were lacking in any way of making more
Sometimes I feel like these videos are literally based on opinion and not facts.
They usually are. He also implied a tiny island with a handful of men and lots of flat land with very few defendable points would hold off a much larger invasion force. Or not get bombed to hell and back by naval fire.
Main point right there. "They are mowed down . Just completely, annihilated." By what? Is Jesus just gonna show up and shit on them? Japans plan would have involved destroying the majority of equipment and defences through air attacks and then land a large naval invasion supported by coastal shelling and air support.
The only reason the U.S won was because they intercepted Japanese communication and counter-attacked appropriately.
Shut up u ugly fucktard
@@user-gs9bi9cq4h the problem is that Japan didn't have a very advanced contended landing strategy. Most of their successful amphibious assaults to that point had been at night, against sparsely defended areas.
You are right to point out that they would have had advantages that AlternateHistoryHub didn't mention, but he also didn't fully convey the disadvantages Japan was dealing with.
Because they weren't terribly experienced with taking heavily fortified islands they hadn't developed their strategies for things like coastal shelling and air support with regards to amphibious landing. Contrary to common sense, indiscriminate shelling of an island isn't a great way to eliminate a contingent of dug-in defenders. Japan could have taken out most of the clearly visible defense installations, but they still would have been forced to contend with a well armed and positioned American defenders who would outnumber them at the start of the battle, even after an extended period of preparatory attacks.
A contended amphibious assault is one of the most difficult military moves to pull off. That's why most forces only attempt such a maneuver when they have an overwhelming force advantage, which the Japanese did not.
It should be mentioned that securing Midway was definitely a goal, but it wasn't the only goal of the attack. The Japanese wanted to draw out the American carriers and attack them in a field of their choosing. A surprise attack on Midway was actually a brilliant idea to achieve this goal, the only problem is that the attack wasn't a surprise and instead of catching the Americans off guard the Japanese were caught off guard.
Couldn’t disagree more. That early in the war, a Japanese victory at midway COULD have been the end of the war for the US in the pacific. How they win in a hypothetical scenario could have great impact on the US ability and/or willingness to even stay in the war. For example, let’s say they win because they don’t get caught with their aircraft on their decks switching armament right as US planes arrive. And instead they destroy the American fleet. They could then cutoff supplies to midway and bombard them until they run out of water. At that point it’s mop up duty for the Japanese forces to occupy the island. At that point with no remaining US pacific carrier fleet, could sail back down to pearl harbor and destroy the dry docks and fuel facilities they left intact in the December attack. There’d be no US battle in Guadalcanal so Australia would remain vulnerable. Any reasonable military advisor could look at the situation in the pacific and very easily conclude the US was knocked so far back on its heels that fighting on would be useless and decide to withdraw from the war, which is all Japan really wanted from the US six months earlier. If the US refused to withdraw, the Japanese could in short order occupy pieces of Alaska, Hawaii, destroy the Panama Canal and cruise battleships and carriers off the west coast reeking havoc with the US powerless to stop them. At that point it would be almost impossible to ever re-establish a presence in the pacific. A future fleet built on the east coast would have to sail entirely around South America just to get to the pacific and there would be no base facilities for them to go to. You could have twenty carriers but if you don’t have a naval base to go to what good are they? They show up in the pacific out of fuel and low on supplies or in other words in no shape to take on the Japanese navy. So the whole “sleeping giant” would be powerless to put its might into effect.
Good luck with this when Saratoga and Wasp are still intact - they never participated in Midway so the US would still have two carriers. Also cutting off supplies to Midway when your own fleet is operating at the tail-end of its own logistics is a very hard task to manage if not outright impossible considering a noteworthy US strike force still exists - they had to land and capture it, a blockade would be impossible - which would have failed as the Japanese assault force was dreadfully underprepared and outnumbered. American subs even with shitty Mk14 torpedoes would still score kills and continue harassing the Japanese fleet, whittling them down day by day. Sailing to pearl harbor again would be a suicide mission considering the fact that this time the Americans had already finished building up their aircraft on Hawaii and had fucktons of AAA, and nearly two full divisions of soldiers on the island.
Also the assumption that assaulting and somehow destroying Pearl leads to Japanese assaults on Alaska, Hawaii, and even Panama Canal is a bit wanky, The Japanese don't even have the fuel capacity to even go that far.
Also another thing that is overlooked - IRL the IJN never even had an idea of where Task Force 16 was - the IJN air attack that was caught with its pants down and thwarted was meant for Yorktown and her consorts, Enterprise and Hornet never saw any Japanee aircraft - so the initial victory scenario itself is in doubt
@@terminalius you’re right….Saratoga was still available as it finished refitting around the time midway was wrapping up. I had forgotten about that so Good point. Wasp was stationed in the Atlantic so how it would have or could have played into an alternate version of events is not as certain. However, my scenario above was simply a hypothetical possibility to counter the videos author that says “absolutely nothing” would have/could have been different. Your point about Hawaii being reinforced (and the existence of one pacific carrier) wouldn’t necessarily prevent the fuel farms and dry docks from being destroyed in a follow up attack. Sure, more AA guns could make it more costly, but those targets COULD still be destroyed and then Pearl Harbor would cease to be a useful base of operations like a dried up oasis in the middle of the desert that would take years to rebuild even if the Japanese navy allowed access to it. And it’s widely known the Japanese plans to attack the Panama Canal involved long range submarine aircraft carriers designed to destroy the locks. Not a large gas guzzling fleet per se.
It’s great fuel for discussion and I certainly don’t completely disagree with your points so don’t get me wrong, it’s just the videos creator really seems to lack any creative analysis in his “absolutely no way” video so I was just throwing out something not entirely implausible given a US defeat at midway.
@@babyseals4872 Completely agree, I do feel Cody is a bit lazy and dismissive at times glad we could have a civil informative discussion 👍
@@terminalius The americans had all 3 carriers in midway what are you talking about
@@terminalius And also saratoga and wasp is in the european thearter i think and japan is free to do anything for 6 months so bro it would be like a repeat of ruso japanese war
My history teacher told me that if Japan won at Midway, they would have taken it and would have invaded California.
I see the weebs still can't accept that the IJN and IJSNLF never stood a chance in WWII
Since I'm a history buff as well as a weeb, I know why and totally understand it. They had the burning samurai spirit, yes. But when you're up against an enemy larger, more industrially capable, and more technologically advanced than you... well... spirit only gets you so far when you're getting pumped full of lead 'The Last Samurai' style.