These are such classy looking guitars! For Sale: reverb.com/item/23847809-video-2019-gibson-sg-standard-61-sideways-vibrola-vintage-cherry-from-original-collection?_aid=growsumo&gs_partner=Trogly
The Trogly's Guitar Show please review a new ES-235 in the ‘34 burst they look like amazing guitars. I really enjoy your reviews and how in depth they are.
Locking tuners don’t “lock” your tuning, they lock the string which makes string changing and tuning up easier. Nothing at all to do with keeping your guitar in tune!
@@l8sk8r86 yeah they do. They eliminate the turns on the tuning post, and the less string you have on the post, the less it will bind on itself or slip at the rapid increase and decrease of string tension that comes with the use of a whammy bar or bends. Locking tuners are popular for a reason, you know, they're not just a gimmick
@@wilhelmtheconquerer6214 You're right, they're not just a gimick. Their use is exactly what L8 SK8R said. They lock the string in place for easier string changes. Does that increase tuning stability? Yes, but that's not they're main function. If you want something meant for keeping your guitar in tune throughout heavy vibrola use, you need a locking nut.
A great debate is happening here. Yeah locking tuners will improve tuning stability, if you set up yout strings well. The principe is to shorten your string length and so limitate the tension to variate. But only locking tuners is not enough to have a proper tuning stability, you also have to lubrificate the nut and the bridge (nor have a roller sadle bridge). So yes it's not the main point but it'll improve your tuning.
It's interesting how they manage to actually install the vibrola system off center. That shouldn't go through CQ unnoticed. Especially not on a 2000$ guitar.
Nobody’s gonna get the sideways trem to actually use it. You get them because they look absolutely badass! They do serve other purposes though. They help counter balance the SG’s neck and they actually have a tone all their own based on the type of sustain they produce. Awesome to see that they use those long screws to mount the trem. You can also buy a kit to block the trem. Then it will stay in tune. You could also just use the trem at the end of songs when you know you’re gonna be retuning anyway..To sum this up: I want one! Gonna get one soon.
Very happy to see this version reviewed! Was always been curious how that trem works (or doesn't). Looking at the front-on view, it appears that the neck is actually misaligned. The high E is closer to the edge of the fretboard and when the low E string was sitting in its non notched position, it got even further from the edge of the fretboard. It also looks like the A string would prefer to sit out of the saddle notch at 3:24. I would speculate that the notches were cut to match the neck misalignment! This is a certain candidate for a return.
No surprise of the tuning instability of the sideways trem. That should not of surprise anybody. But it sure looks purty thooo. Now I'm absolutely outraged that you haven't done the Les Paul Special in TV Yellow yet :P haha
The look is the reason I went for this over the Maestro style one. Never planned on using it. Thought about some tubing to replace the springs as a cheap way to lock it, or spending $125 on a vibrostop for the more expensive route. But $10 on amazon, to try out a rolling tun-o-matic, then I'll decide what I want to do.
FYI, to be nitpicky, the original "Orange Drops" were made by Sprague and they were foil and polyester/Mylar film construction. The caps in that guitar are made by Cornell Dubilier Electronics (CDE), who bought the Sprague Orange drop product line and name. The 225P indicates that they are a non-inductively wound foil and polyester/Mylar film construction that is dipped in epoxy and has copper plated steel leads, which unfortunately do not sound as good as all copper leads. You can use a magnet to double check whether or not the leads are indeed copper plated steel. FYI, film and foil capacitors sound better than metalized film capacitors. The epoxy dip also reduces microphonics. The 223K means 22 plus Three Zeros = 22,000pF = 0.022 µF. It has a 400 VDC rating. It's date coded 10th week of 2015. www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/225p.pdf It would have been better is Gibson had used the 716P Orange Drop series, which are a non-inductively wound foil and polypropylene film construction with all copper leads. www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/716p.pdf
"QC" at Gibson is basically just the term used for the guy who puts the stickers on the back of the headstock. So that he can do 400 a day the MBA's upstairs asked him to focus solely on that task and lose the 'checking' part. Productivity of the QC team went up 4000% in a single quarter and MBA's got nice fat bonuses.
Be positive, the metal gizmo can also be used a handy beer bottle opener. The inspiration for the sideways vibrola must have come from a fancy wine bottle cork remover...from the 1850s.
Great review as always. The "sideways" Vibrola was the invention of "Doc" Kaufman and was used briefly on 50's Rickenbacker guitars among others. They never worked as well as a Bigsby and prompted Rickenbacker to develop their own "Frictionless" Accent Vibrato unit .
Hello, a big thank you for the full test of this guitar. I will watch more and more video. I am very interested in this guitar but indeed the vibrato is the weak point. I need to know if the guitar is tuned perfectly, if the vibrato is not used. It’s really very important to me. Thank you in advance for your answer
1. In 1969 I had an original '61 SG/LP with the same sideways Vibrato (I think it was referred as a "Lonnie Mack" Vibrato back then). Killer tone - especially front Pickup thru a Twin at 8. Vibrola worked sorta OK whenever I dared to do a little "Wiggle-Tailing" on a Chord, etc. but this whammy was Never cut out for Surf Music (I was often tempted to use the Cover as an Ashtray). With genu-wine non-wired Tune-a-matic Bridge, this meant a Saddle would be flying across the Stage at the worst possible Moment/best "string-breaking" Bend you've ever done (& it Did right during a Concert). 2. "spanky, Spanky, SPANKY - we gotta turn them Negative-Nancy's into Nice-Nancys !"
I like how you play the same chords/notes on each pickup. That is the only way to really compare and so many people don't do that because they want to show off.
I haven't read all the comments , so maybe someone else stated....when the bridge is seated @ the factory , the norm would be that each string /saddle are Seated by a 1 stroke tap of a mallet to create the actual groove in the saddle..... LOVE YOUR CHANNEL & EVERY VIDEO/ ROCK ON AUSTIN.... Maybe the Qc just plain intonated the axe very lightly & the Proper Groove Needs to be Re-set for that string & Saddle is all...Not a Tough Fix (Set up man/woman , just Hit or strummed too lightly.....Lovin' All Gib's....Thnx A.
Gibson makes beautiful guitars, but I feel the prices exceed what should be allowed for some of the corners they cut. I'd honestly rather buy an epiphone, because if it comes with a production flaw I can fix it without feeling like I spent 1,999 on a repair project
I’ve seen quite a few of these new sideways Vibrola SG’s and they all seem to have that saddle problem with the low E. A lot of the issue is there isn’t much break angle of the strings over the bridge due to the design of the sideways trem.
Orange Drops, the only part that matters is the "223K" portion - that is the value. It tells you it's 22 The number after that tells you how many zeros follow that to get the value in picofarads, so 3 zeros That means it's 22000 picofarads, or 0.022uF (microfarad), or 22nF (nanofarad) K is the tolerance code, meaning it will be + or - the stated value, and the value for K is 10%. I will say, they cheaped out a little by going with "K" instead of "J" tolerance. J is + or - 5%. I'm a pedal builder and I'll say we generally use a "10% rule," so if we're building a pedal and we don't have a part that is exactly the value it should be, we'll generally be okay with using something else so long as it's within 10% of what it should have been. So if a schematic calls for a 110K resistor and all I have is 100K, it should be fine. When you buy parts, part of what you're paying extra for with valuable stuff like WIMA caps is tighter tolerances and reliability. Yes, these Sprague Orange Drops are high quality, and plus or minus 10% is probably not that discernible to most people, but I think they should have sprung a few more pennies for the J's... I'm holding one in my hand right now, about to solder it into my Rickenbacker. Honestly, it probably costs the same or less if they went with J's that are rated for 200V instead of the 400V ones. (the voltage doesn't matter with a low power guitar signal)
QueeferSutherland I just changed out .33 orange drops on my Strat for a .47 mojotone vitamin T. It was a noticeable improvement. I hear .22 to be the preferred cap for Humbuckers. That said, I think these 61 SG guitars cast a spell on guys like me. I want the Maestro version, even though I know it want stay in tune... Guess it’s because I had a 1969 Standard when I was a kid-
Bought Gibson SG ´61 Standard VC 1600 Euro(about 1800 US) from big store in Europe and have no problem at all with that guitar. Everything is top notch even the smell of the Nashville fabric...
You re asking coz you find the SG headstock is heavy? I've owned 1 like these and i thought it was well balanced , maybe slightly better then the regular ones . the system at itself is horrible , I took everything of which i didn't need
Looks to me like the vibrola is hanging up just before it gets back to pitch. Probably between a little tweaking(maybe lubing?) in the mechanism and right-hand vibrola technique that could be brought under control. Maybe going up a gauge might help,too.
so what's the new QC focus really worth if you still can't play the guitar? What are they checking if they aren't play testing it and seeing that the low string can hardly be used? I had high hopes for the new Gibsons
The bridge saddles ought to be correctly notched, out of the box and from the factory. Not a promising look for the new Gibson. But on another topic: Whammy bars and standard Tune-o-Matic bridges just don't mix. (Which means this lousy vibrato system is vintage-correct!) At the very least, replace the bridge with roller saddles. StewMac makes a roller bridge with the correct 12" radius. Ask them if it would work as a drop-in replacement. And if so, that's great: You can switch out the bridge without making any permanent modifications, and just keep the original one in the case.
Is it possible that Gibson reduced the notch so the string would glide over the knife-edge easier? I'm not stating that as fact I just wonder if it's true.
They should use roller saddles. Sure, that's not vintage-correct. But it'll actually work better. Strings won't jump out of the grooves in the rollers, AND they won't get caught on them. If you buy any of these Gibsons with a whammy bar unit - either this sideways Vibrola, or the Maestro - get the roller bridge from StewMac. Then just put the original bridge in the case, and forget about it.
Wow. Great review. I watched the other video you did with the other SG with the Vibrato. I owned an Original 2. It was dark cherry and had the Vibrato and Mastero bridge. It would always go out of tune on the g. Even after stretching the strings. I later learned to file the slot on the bridge and use nut sauce on the nut slots. That seemed to work. Thanks for your honest review.
The markings on the Orange Drop capacitor CDE225P400V 223K 1510 CDE the manufacturer's marking. CDE stands for Cornell-Dubilier. 225P the Model or Type number for this cap, a polyester film/aluminum foil cap. 400v the maximum voltage rating for this cap. 223 capacitance in picofarads, read it as 22 + 3 zeros or 22,000pF (.022uF). K Tolerance code: K=10% 1510 date code: 10th week of 2015.
What I don't understand is how nobody is covering the return of ebony fretboards on the LP Customs... I'm baffled by the end of the cardboard and Return Of WOOD specifically Ebony on the Customs...yet nothing is being said..
I'm raving all about the ebony being back. In fact not just the customs, but even the Modern series in the USA is pretty cool. Take the SG Modern for example. Ebony board, back to traditional nut width, and no stupid robot tuners or whatever which comes in about $500 cheaper than what the original concept came out to be before Henry left.
I had 61 VOS custom shop which I bought in 2011. Paid big bucks for it. Had the 63 tremolo unit. I could never keep it in tune. Only used as a spare to my 1979 Les Paul standard which never goes out of tune. Ended up selling it.
I got one of these, and mine actually stays in tune well, even when using the vibrola. However, the strap button on the bottom is off center. That doesn't really affect the guitar but you'd want better for the price. It's a great guitar to me, though.
For what it's worth, the other two SGs with sideways Vibrola on Sweetwater's website (one demo model) seem to have the same problem with the Low E saddle. One you can even tell the string is sitting next to the groove not in it. My theory is they didn't make the vibrola unit wide enough.
I think the 00 in the cavity refers to the no model year. The model numbers for the new collections have 00 where in previous years there was a date code. For example SG6100VCNM for the 61 Maestro and LPJR00VTNH for the lp junior.
I like the sideways Vibrola, I have one on a 2015 Black Beauty SGS-3 Ltd Ed.. I don't use it! It looks great but the metal mass adds a nice tone aspect which is why Billy Gibbons enjoys his but he has modified it so it cannot be used and stays solid. It's the best sounding SG I have too and I think it's because of the metal mass in the trem. Also I do like Billy Gibbons and use felt material to mute just behind the bridge as these always have string ringing noise behind the bridge between the string slots in the trem and the bridge saddles. Some folk like that so it's a taste thing. Lastly the string tension is slinky due to the break angle over the bridge being almost like a wrap around stop bar set up.
I hope you will review a TV yellow LP Jr. and an ES-275 at some point in the future. Also, your name is turning up over on the Gibson channel in those Agnesi overview videos - great job on getting your name out there! 😎👍
I am ENRAGED no one is reviewing the hard tail. Seriously though. I'm not a Gibson guy, but this is the guitar to have. Or Gary Clark's. Such an amazing guitar. There's one at my local Sam Ash. It's so glorious. I played it through a 5150 hooked up to 4x12. It sounded MASSIVE. And 24 frets...uh oh I'm rambling sorry VE as in Vintage Eherry
If there’s a negative on a product you sometimes just have to point that out. That’s the point of a review. It’s not crapping on Gibson, it’s a review.
I was upset to not find a review on these too. I had one on order. Had. As I now have one. Trem doesn't let it stay in tune. But for $10 you can get a roller saddle tunomatic for it on amazon. If you don't use it (I didn't plan to) it will keep tune relatively well. But for $10, why not try it right? 225 picofarad 400v capacitor. Pretty typical, lower capacitance will increase highs left in, higher will take them out, relative to the position of the tone knob
Hi there. Love your channel and your strip downs and honest, no bull reviews. Just a question to please my curiosity. Do you: 1. Buy the guitars yourself 2. If do you keep them, sell them etc Just curious! Thanks.
How's the tuning stability if you don't touch the vibrola at all? I'm pretty sure Billy Gibbons has his tech mod them to basically be a stop-bar tailpiece. It would be great if someone would just design a stop-bar tailpiece version of the vibrola. It would look great and stay in tune! After all, I just want the look!
The easiest and most obvious upgrade would be to leave the tailpiece and swap out the bridge for a roller bridge. The trem mechanism will pull the strings back and forth through the saddles. I've never seen a design that wasn't in more need of a roller bridge. It'd probably erase most if not all of your issues with the guitar going out of tune.
Thank you for the review. Appreciate you showing which Capacitor value(s) are being used, could you please provide the Capacitor values (when possible) on all future reviews? Beautiful guitar, tuning issues and bridge mounting inserts are still a disappointment.
Thanks for being honest about the review. No notch on the E -string bridge . Hmh looks like Gibson has not improved quality control very much . How could this have passed inspection ??? . Spend $ 2000 .00 and get filing folks .. Er .. playing ... Yep ....that's OUR motto .
If you'd led with "Can't keep this thing in tune" I bet I'd have turned this off three minutes and 27 seconds ago. Thanks for the honest review. I was looking at buying one but staying in tune is a big big deal.
Very nice demo !!.............A few questions I have ! 1-.............Did you stretched the strings before you played it !? 2-.............Why the heck they look orange while vintage ones are of a nice deep red ? 3-.............Can you get yourself a real kick ass amp for your next demo instead of a Pignose ? I liked your demo though !!............thanks for your time !....................Lou
The best/ easiest way to fix the bridge issue is to change the break angle of the strings. The only way to do that correctly is to lock down the vibrola and add a nut and a few washers to the part of the mechanism that holds it down to the body. It's an extremely cheap and easy way to fix these things.
It looked to me like the E and the A were both not properly lining up, I doubt that the longer you own it the more that will get fixed, Personally if I were you Austin I would return it to Gibson. It is a beautiful looking SG and the Vibrola makes it look better but I would not order one with that on there. Gibson should just license a Bigsby and be done with it, I know I know they were going for that "original" look so a Bigsby wouldn't do on this model lol. Over on the "Dylan Talks tone" channel he just did an excellent video on capacitors and stuff and basically the final decision was they don't make a difference, Orange drop or not. It was a very good discussion and since he builds guitars he knows his stuff! Great Review again Austin!
Really interesting and useful review. Thank you. One question about the vibratosystems though. You said that the Sidewaysvibrato got better the longer you used it. I can understand that. In your review of the Maestro SG you experienced that the ABR was moving when using the Maestro. Now that is really worrying and would prevent me from being one. How is that with the Sideways, does it move too? Thanks! Onno
Well I've got myself one because, as a long time SG player, I have always been intrigued by the early ones with the sideways vibrola but was not quite willing to spend a large amount of money on a guitar that most probably had suffered a broken neck and/or headstock in the past, as most of them have. I understand many people complain that the new sideways vibrola won't stay in tune, just like it was often said about the old one . However, my own personal experience is, if you understand how the vibrola works and do some tweaking, it can work like a charm. Contact me for details. It also has been said before that the fretboards on these guitars are awfully dry, they are just begging for a treatment with a good quality fretboard conditioner. After that, it has a classic dark look. I'd like to add, the guitar is drop dead beautiful, the neck feels great and I especially like the pickups, they have a much more open and transparent sound than the 57 Classics they used before, but are still able to deliver a good punch when needed. And the audio taper pots allow a great variety of tones when both pickups are on. The SG is far more versatile than many people think it is, and this one for me is the ultimate classic version. All in all, I do not regret purchasing it, it did have some minor issues at first but the more I play the guitar and get familiar with it, the more I like it.
@@jonathanhudak2059 Hi Jonathan, how can I help you? I realize this is from two years ago - the guitar has undergone some major modifications since then. First of all, after a while realized the sideways vibrola did not work that well altogether. There is some inherent construction flaw which results in too much friction. Every time after lowering (or raising) a note, it seemed to have trouble to return to normal pitch. Tightening the nuts on the bolts would fix that, however that would make it so stiff it was just uncomfortable to use. Also, the cover of the unit is somewhat bulky and kind of got in the way when picking. To make a long story short, I decided to replace it with a Bigsby B7, which has the long tailpiece that will cover most of the holes from the sideways unit and easily make contact to the ground wire. It did need a certain adaptation to make it fit the SG body (remember it is thinner than an ES or Les Paul), but looks cool and most important, is easy to operate and stays in tune. If you want a vibrato for your SG, Bigsby is the best and most reliable IMO. Listen to some John Cipollina occasionally.... Some more little improvements, I replaced the stock tuners with historically correct Kluson double ring tuners, added pointer washers to the knobs and a truss rod cover with "Les Paul" on it. The back of the neck and the headstock received some treatment also to make them less glossy. Now I've got a guitar with a lot of personality, and still way cheaper than a Custom Shop, let alone a vintage SG Les Paul.
Ok this may be a dumb question, but if I don't use the sidebar will it stay in tune... Like does the sidebar cause the stability problem or does the guitar just not stay in tune.
You can put a vibro- lock for the look and will keep it in tune. (So I hear) What I want to know is does having the vibrola give it better sustain or a better sound than the stop bar tailpiece? Or is just the look? (Not speaking about a functional can't keep in tune vibrola)
Maybe it's my background as a Fender guy, but I like the look of the vibrato unit WITHOUT the cover on it. Getting to see all the gadgetry that's going on inside is kind of neat.
This is purely a matter of personal taste and opinion, so there's no objectively correct answer. But I'm glad to know that I've got some good company on this one!
Hey Austin, how about installing a roller bridge on one of those... I know it's not vintage correct nor will it add to its value, but in terms of functionality? I've done that mod to a number of guitars with great results, but they were no Gibsons... So, is it viable to do that with one of these Gibson guitars?
can you please review the epiphone g-400 pro 1966 limited edition? it goes for 429.99 and I really want it but i need a review for how it’s set up. I absolutely love your videos Trogly and your reviews are the best, Thanks!
You never hear much about the green tupil / keystone Kluson Deluxe tuners, prolly cause there's not much good to say about them (other than them being "traditional" tuners of course)- but are they traditional or do they just look traditional? I will say the latest ones do work very smoothly- all the way up to the first good bang which hoplessly destroys them. Impacts usually break the peening which holds the back onto the frame. After that, it's all down hill. Some even break without ever seeing an impact. These latest Kluson Deluxe tuners are even more of a hybrid in their construction compared to the Klusons Deluxes of a few decades ago. Unfortunately, the diecast back is now "peened-fastened" to the diecast frame (total yuk!). The good part is, instead of the old style press-fit headstock bushing, they now use a higher tollerance 10mm bushing just like a typical diecast tuner. But this peening thing ain't good news folks. The old Kluson Deluxes had a stamped metal back with two bent metal tabs that held the back to the stamped frame. Even this older method wasn't that great at handling abuse or impacts and the newer peening method is just not durable enough to withstand the rigors of a performance. For this same reason, many professional guitarists of the 60's - 80's replaced their keysones with Grovers and Schallers. Grovers are usually considered "a traditional upgrade" on old Gibsons and do not typically devaluate vintage guitars like a new shiny set of Gotohs or Sperzels would. They are definitely heavier though, so if neck weight is of concern, Grovers may not be the best option. Even though the old Kluson Deluxes were arguably more durable, they still weren't as durable as most other tuners you could buy back then. What makes the Kluson Deluxe a hybrid tuner is that the back holds ALL the inner workings together. If the peening should break for any reason, your tuner is usually doomed. You may find yourself trying to fix the broken tuner (which almost never works) or looking on Feebay or Feeverb for an individual replacement with little luck. Consider a nice set of Grover 102s and have your Guitar Guy install em. JMHO. Guitartec
Trog.. Will lubing all contact points on this. trem system correct instability?? What is the radius of the board? My "17" Strat Elite wouldn't stay in tune for a stum either until I went of the saddles, nut and pivot points with nut sauce.. Day and night.. but that system may not improve so much but it appears to have quite a few contact points that can be properly lubricated.. No one should buy a guitar orgun without going over it completely and doing a proper lube job. It's really not fair to the guitar or firearm to expect it to preform optimally out of the box. Kinda like foreplay..without it.. No one will enjoy it. Factory does notin most cases use conditioner on the board but because it comes that way doesn't mean it should stay that way.. My 17 strat and 17 LP standard rosewood boards were dry as a popcorn fart.. What a difference.
Crazy! First thing; thé flower on headstock is not centered !!! And second; how Can they sale a vibrato reissue SG 61 if that level with a non stabilized vibrato? Forget it !!! Take a regular Stop bar Tune'o'Matic Unit !!!! ;-)
I've this exact model in January 2020 and it looks absolutely stunning. However, I disagree on two main criticisms. First I didn't came across any string saddle problem when I first played till few moments ago so I don't if it is design issue or Mr. Trogly got a slightly defective piece. Also to add I play hard, pinch hard and strum hard and so far no tuning issue. All the strings so far are in place and seems perfect. For tunning part I've played this guitar for about 6 to 8 hrs straight and it remained in tune till the end. I picked it again after about a week and did very minute tunning. However with vibrola it tends ro go out of tune. So I don't use it. But I get a lot of effects otherwise. So I disagree because my SG 61 standard with sideways vibrola plays great and it sounds great.
Did you stretch our the strings before playing it? No matter the tremolo if the strings still have play in them it's never going to stay in tune. Since you noted how it kept getting out of tune less I don't think you did as by using them trem your starting to stretch them
I have had three SG's. Sadly enough one I did not like, one needed to much repair and the third I broke a tuner on it but the replacement Schaller tuners work better and look more vintage than the Deluxe ones that came on it. It sounds more like a Gibson than any Gibson that I have ever played.
I like the aesthetic of the sideway vibrola , it's somehow really rock and roll to me.... kinda better looking than the maestro. BUT functionality wise, the maestro wins so looks like I'm gonna have a harder time choosing now
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and attitude with us. These new Cherry/Mahogany SGs from Gibson are absolutely beautiful but : To me , Who would want a tremolo on a Gibson SG (Solid body Guitar). The SG's claim to fame is its bright, sweet, tight tone when plugged into a great vintage amplifier cranked to 11. A tremolo would only suck a bit of the goodness away from that classic tone. If you want to make pretty music get a Fender. I am an old geezer. I remember the band " Quick Silver Messenger Service. The guitar player in that band had a SG with the Tremolo and , he is long forgotten.
Well - with a Strat (along with all the things there are to improve, lubricate etc. the System), try doing your "Whammy-Vibrato" & before resuming playing, quickly do a silent (muted) "Bar- Wiggle" to get things settled back in. An old trick & usually works great for me (BTW, Kudos to that-there Italian guy who showed us this on YT) & impresses the Chicks like crazy !
These are such classy looking guitars!
For Sale: reverb.com/item/23847809-video-2019-gibson-sg-standard-61-sideways-vibrola-vintage-cherry-from-original-collection?_aid=growsumo&gs_partner=Trogly
The Trogly's Guitar Show please review a new ES-235 in the ‘34 burst they look like amazing guitars. I really enjoy your reviews and how in depth they are.
*The double 00 in the pickup cavity may be first batch like in the serial number no?*
Theres a few really odd 80's Gibson SuperStrats on eBay right now.
Pls review the legendary afd Les Paul if so buy it and review it
You miss spoke yourself, This model does not have the new audio taper pots. look it up if you feel i'm wrong.
You're not negative, you're Honest Austin! 👍
Roller bridge and locking tuners are basically a must have for these tremolo systems in my opinion!
Locking tuners don’t “lock” your tuning, they lock the string which makes string changing and tuning up easier. Nothing at all to do with keeping your guitar in tune!
@@l8sk8r86 yeah they do. They eliminate the turns on the tuning post, and the less string you have on the post, the less it will bind on itself or slip at the rapid increase and decrease of string tension that comes with the use of a whammy bar or bends.
Locking tuners are popular for a reason, you know, they're not just a gimmick
@@wilhelmtheconquerer6214 You're right, they're not just a gimick. Their use is exactly what L8 SK8R said. They lock the string in place for easier string changes. Does that increase tuning stability? Yes, but that's not they're main function. If you want something meant for keeping your guitar in tune throughout heavy vibrola use, you need a locking nut.
@@wilhelmtheconquerer6214 No it won't. Locking tuners don't improve tuning stability whatsoever.
A great debate is happening here.
Yeah locking tuners will improve tuning stability, if you set up yout strings well. The principe is to shorten your string length and so limitate the tension to variate.
But only locking tuners is not enough to have a proper tuning stability, you also have to lubrificate the nut and the bridge (nor have a roller sadle bridge).
So yes it's not the main point but it'll improve your tuning.
1:26
Trogly unboxing the guitar in *_ťhë vøįđ_*
Hello lawyer Morty. I would like beans. Hamburger. €¥*. Thank you.
@@assnapkined9295 we only have one rice. Only one singular rice, is that ok?
I like that
It's interesting how they manage to actually install the vibrola system off center. That shouldn't go through CQ unnoticed. Especially not on a 2000$ guitar.
A lot of them are skewed. I've tried about half a dozen and didn't find a single perfect one.
Exactly, is off entirely, doesn't hold the tuning, Gibson is going to sh**t
Nobody’s gonna get the sideways trem to actually use it. You get them because they look absolutely badass! They do serve other purposes though. They help counter balance the SG’s neck and they actually have a tone all their own based on the type of sustain they produce. Awesome to see that they use those long screws to mount the trem. You can also buy a kit to block the trem. Then it will stay in tune. You could also just use the trem at the end of songs when you know you’re gonna be retuning anyway..To sum this up: I want one! Gonna get one soon.
Tune the strings, pull them until they stretch, tune again. Repeat this until you pull really hard and they are 100% in tune.
I LOVE YOUR SHOW, you honestly deserve more subs and recognition on this platform. Keep doing what you do. ROCK ON 🤘🏻
Very happy to see this version reviewed! Was always been curious how that trem works (or doesn't). Looking at the front-on view, it appears that the neck is actually misaligned. The high E is closer to the edge of the fretboard and when the low E string was sitting in its non notched position, it got even further from the edge of the fretboard. It also looks like the A string would prefer to sit out of the saddle notch at 3:24. I would speculate that the notches were cut to match the neck misalignment! This is a certain candidate for a return.
No surprise of the tuning instability of the sideways trem. That should not of surprise anybody. But it sure looks purty thooo. Now I'm absolutely outraged that you haven't done the Les Paul Special in TV Yellow yet :P haha
THIS!!!
@@sassycat MEOW!!!
The look is the reason I went for this over the Maestro style one. Never planned on using it. Thought about some tubing to replace the springs as a cheap way to lock it, or spending $125 on a vibrostop for the more expensive route. But $10 on amazon, to try out a rolling tun-o-matic, then I'll decide what I want to do.
Waiting on you to do the new TV yellow Les Paul special !!
FYI, to be nitpicky, the original "Orange Drops" were made by Sprague and they were foil and polyester/Mylar film construction. The caps in that guitar are made by Cornell Dubilier Electronics (CDE), who bought the Sprague Orange drop product line and name. The 225P indicates that they are a non-inductively wound foil and polyester/Mylar film construction that is dipped in epoxy and has copper plated steel leads, which unfortunately do not sound as good as all copper leads. You can use a magnet to double check whether or not the leads are indeed copper plated steel. FYI, film and foil capacitors sound better than metalized film capacitors. The epoxy dip also reduces microphonics. The 223K means 22 plus Three Zeros = 22,000pF = 0.022 µF. It has a 400 VDC rating. It's date coded 10th week of 2015. www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/225p.pdf It would have been better is Gibson had used the 716P Orange Drop series, which are a non-inductively wound foil and polypropylene film construction with all copper leads. www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/716p.pdf
Actually, the internal mechanics of that sideways vibrola has been simplified from the original vintage 1961 vibrola.
There is still a lot of play in the arm though, on mine at least. It's also sort of floated, can bend up and down.
Thank you trogly you’re now my favorite TH-camr and I’m honestly debating on getting this or the les paul classic
For that price, you should not have to modify anything.... How did that ever get through QC?
"QC" at Gibson is basically just the term used for the guy who puts the stickers on the back of the headstock. So that he can do 400 a day the MBA's upstairs asked him to focus solely on that task and lose the 'checking' part. Productivity of the QC team went up 4000% in a single quarter and MBA's got nice fat bonuses.
Be positive, the metal gizmo can also be used a handy beer bottle opener. The inspiration for the sideways vibrola must have come from a fancy wine bottle cork remover...from the 1850s.
Great review as always. The "sideways" Vibrola was the invention of "Doc" Kaufman and was used briefly on 50's Rickenbacker guitars among others. They never worked as well as a Bigsby and prompted Rickenbacker to develop their own "Frictionless" Accent Vibrato unit .
Shaun W Didn’t Doc Kaufman work with Leo Fender?
Hello, a big thank you for the full test of this guitar. I will watch more and more video.
I am very interested in this guitar but indeed the vibrato is the weak point.
I need to know if the guitar is tuned perfectly, if the vibrato is not used. It’s really very important to me.
Thank you in advance for your answer
1. In 1969 I had an original '61 SG/LP with the same sideways Vibrato (I think it was referred as a "Lonnie Mack" Vibrato back then). Killer tone - especially front Pickup thru a Twin at 8. Vibrola worked sorta OK whenever I dared to do a little "Wiggle-Tailing" on a Chord, etc. but this whammy was Never cut out for Surf Music (I was often tempted to use the Cover as an Ashtray). With genu-wine non-wired Tune-a-matic Bridge, this meant a Saddle would be flying across the Stage at the worst possible Moment/best "string-breaking" Bend you've ever done (& it Did right during a Concert).
2. "spanky, Spanky, SPANKY - we gotta turn them Negative-Nancy's into Nice-Nancys !"
I like how you play the same chords/notes on each pickup. That is the only way to really compare and so many people don't do that because they want to show off.
I like Gibson, but the bridge issue with the low-E saddle is not acceptable on a 2.000$ guitar.
Dude, this is the most complete review in the World, electronic, wood, and of course the sound
I haven't read all the comments , so maybe someone else stated....when the bridge is seated @ the factory , the norm would be that each string /saddle are Seated by a 1 stroke tap of a mallet to create the actual groove in the saddle..... LOVE YOUR CHANNEL & EVERY VIDEO/ ROCK ON AUSTIN.... Maybe the Qc just plain intonated the axe very lightly & the Proper Groove Needs to be Re-set for that string & Saddle is all...Not a Tough Fix (Set up man/woman , just Hit or strummed too lightly.....Lovin' All Gib's....Thnx A.
Didnt you buy these guitars from sweetwater? Doesn't say much for sweetwaters ten trillion point inspection and set up before they sell you a guitar.
satrsmndri - prove it
Something wrong with bridge / tailpiece cover. strings not spaced right. It will always have tuning issues until fixed. Expensive wall hanger as is
Gibson makes beautiful guitars, but I feel the prices exceed what should be allowed for some of the corners they cut. I'd honestly rather buy an epiphone, because if it comes with a production flaw I can fix it without feeling like I spent 1,999 on a repair project
I’ve seen quite a few of these new sideways Vibrola SG’s and they all seem to have that saddle problem with the low E. A lot of the issue is there isn’t much break angle of the strings over the bridge due to the design of the sideways trem.
Orange Drops, the only part that matters is the "223K" portion - that is the value.
It tells you it's 22
The number after that tells you how many zeros follow that to get the value in picofarads, so 3 zeros
That means it's 22000 picofarads, or 0.022uF (microfarad), or 22nF (nanofarad)
K is the tolerance code, meaning it will be + or - the stated value, and the value for K is 10%.
I will say, they cheaped out a little by going with "K" instead of "J" tolerance. J is + or - 5%.
I'm a pedal builder and I'll say we generally use a "10% rule," so if we're building a pedal and we don't have a part that is exactly the value it should be, we'll generally be okay with using something else so long as it's within 10% of what it should have been. So if a schematic calls for a 110K resistor and all I have is 100K, it should be fine.
When you buy parts, part of what you're paying extra for with valuable stuff like WIMA caps is tighter tolerances and reliability. Yes, these Sprague Orange Drops are high quality, and plus or minus 10% is probably not that discernible to most people, but I think they should have sprung a few more pennies for the J's... I'm holding one in my hand right now, about to solder it into my Rickenbacker. Honestly, it probably costs the same or less if they went with J's that are rated for 200V instead of the 400V ones. (the voltage doesn't matter with a low power guitar signal)
QueeferSutherland I just changed out .33 orange drops on my Strat for a .47 mojotone vitamin T. It was a noticeable improvement. I hear .22 to be the preferred cap for Humbuckers. That said, I think these 61 SG guitars cast a spell on guys like me. I want the Maestro version, even though I know it want stay in tune... Guess it’s because I had a 1969 Standard when I was a kid-
Bought Gibson SG ´61 Standard VC 1600 Euro(about 1800 US) from big store in Europe and have no problem at all with that guitar. Everything is top notch even the smell of the Nashville fabric...
Does all that extra metal in the vibrola help the balance point of the sg?
You re asking coz you find the SG headstock is heavy? I've owned 1 like these and i thought it was well balanced , maybe slightly better then the regular ones .
the system at itself is horrible , I took everything of which i didn't need
I didn't film the test for this one, but the Maestro version I did and it didn't have neck dive. I didn't notice any diving with this one either
I have the 61 Reissue but from 2013. Best guitar i ever owned!
Looks to me like the vibrola is hanging up just before it gets back to pitch. Probably between a little tweaking(maybe lubing?) in the mechanism and right-hand vibrola technique that could be brought under control. Maybe going up a gauge might help,too.
so what's the new QC focus really worth if you still can't play the guitar? What are they checking if they aren't play testing it and seeing that the low string can hardly be used? I had high hopes for the new Gibsons
im so happy that gibson is taking a step in the right direction
The bridge saddles ought to be correctly notched, out of the box and from the factory. Not a promising look for the new Gibson.
But on another topic: Whammy bars and standard Tune-o-Matic bridges just don't mix. (Which means this lousy vibrato system is vintage-correct!) At the very least, replace the bridge with roller saddles.
StewMac makes a roller bridge with the correct 12" radius. Ask them if it would work as a drop-in replacement. And if so, that's great: You can switch out the bridge without making any permanent modifications, and just keep the original one in the case.
lol on his other video the one with the new 2019 gibson bass DC i think the pickup they put on someone installed it backwards
Is it possible that Gibson reduced the notch so the string would glide over the knife-edge easier? I'm not stating that as fact I just wonder if it's true.
They should use roller saddles. Sure, that's not vintage-correct. But it'll actually work better. Strings won't jump out of the grooves in the rollers, AND they won't get caught on them.
If you buy any of these Gibsons with a whammy bar unit - either this sideways Vibrola, or the Maestro - get the roller bridge from StewMac. Then just put the original bridge in the case, and forget about it.
I’ve read all the reviews but I don’t really care, i just love the looks of it, 😅
Wow. Great review. I watched the other video you did with the other SG with the Vibrato. I owned an Original 2. It was dark cherry and had the Vibrato and Mastero bridge. It would always go out of tune on the g. Even after stretching the strings. I later learned to file the slot on the bridge and use nut sauce on the nut slots. That seemed to work. Thanks for your honest review.
Thanks for the tuning tips. Guitar arrives on Saturday.😀
The markings on the Orange Drop capacitor
CDE225P400V
223K 1510
CDE the manufacturer's marking. CDE stands for Cornell-Dubilier.
225P the Model or Type number for this cap, a polyester film/aluminum foil cap.
400v the maximum voltage rating for this cap.
223 capacitance in picofarads, read it as 22 + 3 zeros or 22,000pF (.022uF).
K Tolerance code: K=10%
1510 date code: 10th week of 2015.
What I don't understand is how nobody is covering the return of ebony fretboards on the LP Customs... I'm baffled by the end of the cardboard and Return Of WOOD specifically Ebony on the Customs...yet nothing is being said..
Because most LP players don't dig customs, they are a different beast and most honestly prefer the feel of the standards.
I'm raving all about the ebony being back. In fact not just the customs, but even the Modern series in the USA is pretty cool. Take the SG Modern for example. Ebony board, back to traditional nut width, and no stupid robot tuners or whatever which comes in about $500 cheaper than what the original concept came out to be before Henry left.
More of a taking point: why has the flagship custom ... got 498t and 498r in it?
I had 61 VOS custom shop which I bought in 2011. Paid big bucks for it. Had the 63 tremolo unit. I could never keep it in tune. Only used as a spare to my 1979 Les Paul standard which never goes out of tune. Ended up selling it.
Personally I’d mod it to have a roller bridge
Before you sell this and the Vibrola one (unless it's already sold), try them with roller bridge and see if they stay in tune better.
At 3:19 I heard enough. Thanks for your reviews. Most of all. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for your HONESTY.
I got one of these, and mine actually stays in tune well, even when using the vibrola. However, the strap button on the bottom is off center. That doesn't really affect the guitar but you'd want better for the price. It's a great guitar to me, though.
YES I was looking for this version last night! Thanks Trogly
That bridge is shocking!!!
For what it's worth, the other two SGs with sideways Vibrola on Sweetwater's website (one demo model) seem to have the same problem with the Low E saddle. One you can even tell the string is sitting next to the groove not in it. My theory is they didn't make the vibrola unit wide enough.
I think the 00 in the cavity refers to the no model year. The model numbers for the new collections have 00 where in previous years there was a date code.
For example SG6100VCNM for the 61 Maestro and LPJR00VTNH for the lp junior.
Good theory! That definitely sounds plausible!
I put 61T/R pickups in my LP standard and thought they were harsh. Degaussed the A5 magnets and now I really liked them.
I like the sideways Vibrola, I have one on a 2015 Black Beauty SGS-3 Ltd Ed.. I don't use it! It looks great but the metal mass adds a nice tone aspect which is why Billy Gibbons enjoys his but he has modified it so it cannot be used and stays solid. It's the best sounding SG I have too and I think it's because of the metal mass in the trem. Also I do like Billy Gibbons and use felt material to mute just behind the bridge as these always have string ringing noise behind the bridge between the string slots in the trem and the bridge saddles. Some folk like that so it's a taste thing. Lastly the string tension is slinky due to the break angle over the bridge being almost like a wrap around stop bar set up.
I hope you will review a TV yellow LP Jr. and an ES-275 at some point in the future. Also, your name is turning up over on the Gibson channel in those Agnesi overview videos - great job on getting your name out there! 😎👍
I am ENRAGED no one is reviewing the hard tail. Seriously though. I'm not a Gibson guy, but this is the guitar to have. Or Gary Clark's. Such an amazing guitar. There's one at my local Sam Ash. It's so glorious. I played it through a 5150 hooked up to 4x12. It sounded MASSIVE. And 24 frets...uh oh I'm rambling sorry
VE as in Vintage Eherry
If there’s a negative on a product you sometimes just have to point that out. That’s the point of a review. It’s not crapping on Gibson, it’s a review.
I was upset to not find a review on these too. I had one on order. Had. As I now have one. Trem doesn't let it stay in tune. But for $10 you can get a roller saddle tunomatic for it on amazon. If you don't use it (I didn't plan to) it will keep tune relatively well. But for $10, why not try it right? 225 picofarad 400v capacitor. Pretty typical, lower capacitance will increase highs left in, higher will take them out, relative to the position of the tone knob
Hi there. Love your channel and your strip downs and honest, no bull reviews. Just a question to please my curiosity. Do you:
1. Buy the guitars yourself
2. If do you keep them, sell them etc
Just curious! Thanks.
Yes, I buy them. I sell them on my Reverb page once the review is done. You can find links to the for sale ads in the description
How's the tuning stability if you don't touch the vibrola at all? I'm pretty sure Billy Gibbons has his tech mod them to basically be a stop-bar tailpiece. It would be great if someone would just design a stop-bar tailpiece version of the vibrola. It would look great and stay in tune! After all, I just want the look!
The easiest and most obvious upgrade would be to leave the tailpiece and swap out the bridge for a roller bridge. The trem mechanism will pull the strings back and forth through the saddles. I've never seen a design that wasn't in more need of a roller bridge. It'd probably erase most if not all of your issues with the guitar going out of tune.
Thank you for the review. Appreciate you showing which Capacitor value(s) are being used, could you please provide the Capacitor values (when possible) on all future reviews?
Beautiful guitar, tuning issues and bridge mounting inserts are still a disappointment.
Thanks for being honest about the review. No notch on the E -string bridge . Hmh looks like Gibson has not improved quality control very much . How could this have passed inspection ??? .
Spend $ 2000 .00 and get filing folks .. Er .. playing ... Yep ....that's OUR motto .
If you'd led with "Can't keep this thing in tune" I bet I'd have turned this off three minutes and 27 seconds ago. Thanks for the honest review. I was looking at buying one but staying in tune is a big big deal.
Very nice demo !!.............A few questions I have !
1-.............Did you stretched the strings before you played it !?
2-.............Why the heck they look orange while vintage ones are of a nice deep red ?
3-.............Can you get yourself a real kick ass amp for your next demo instead of a Pignose ?
I liked your demo though !!............thanks for your time !....................Lou
The best/ easiest way to fix the bridge issue is to change the break angle of the strings. The only way to do that correctly is to lock down the vibrola and add a nut and a few washers to the part of the mechanism that holds it down to the body. It's an extremely cheap and easy way to fix these things.
W could be V V for vertical Vibrola since you move the bar vertically when in the playing position
It looked to me like the E and the A were both not properly lining up, I doubt that the longer you own it the more that will get fixed, Personally if I were you Austin I would return it to Gibson.
It is a beautiful looking SG and the Vibrola makes it look better but I would not order one with that on there. Gibson should just license a Bigsby and be done with it, I know I know they were going for that "original" look so a Bigsby wouldn't do on this model lol.
Over on the "Dylan Talks tone" channel he just did an excellent video on capacitors and stuff and basically the final decision was they don't make a difference, Orange drop or not. It was a very good discussion and since he builds guitars he knows his stuff! Great Review again Austin!
Hey Ron, thought I'd say "hey" cause your comment was third on the list for me. Have a good one.
@@roymartin500 howdy Roy!
Best reviews anywhere! Love your work!
Really interesting and useful review. Thank you. One question about the vibratosystems though. You said that the Sidewaysvibrato got better the longer you used it. I can understand that. In your review of the Maestro SG you experienced that the ABR was moving when using the Maestro. Now that is really worrying and would prevent me from being one. How is that with the Sideways, does it move too? Thanks! Onno
Yes, the bridge moves on both models
Well I've got myself one because, as a long time SG player, I have always been intrigued by the early ones with the sideways vibrola but was not quite willing to spend a large amount of money on a guitar that most probably had suffered a broken neck and/or headstock in the past, as most of them have. I understand many people complain that the new sideways vibrola won't stay in tune, just like it was often said about the old one . However, my own personal experience is, if you understand how the vibrola works and do some tweaking, it can work like a charm. Contact me for details.
It also has been said before that the fretboards on these guitars are awfully dry, they are just begging for a treatment with a good quality fretboard conditioner. After that, it has a classic dark look.
I'd like to add, the guitar is drop dead beautiful, the neck feels great and I especially like the pickups, they have a much more open and transparent sound than the 57 Classics they used before, but are still able to deliver a good punch when needed. And the audio taper pots allow a great variety of tones when both pickups are on. The SG is far more versatile than many people think it is, and this one for me is the ultimate classic version.
All in all, I do not regret purchasing it, it did have some minor issues at first but the more I play the guitar and get familiar with it, the more I like it.
Hi J.L. how can I contact you?
Hi J.L, I have a question or two for you as well...
@@jonathanhudak2059 Hi Jonathan, how can I help you?
I realize this is from two years ago - the guitar has undergone some major modifications since then. First of all, after a while realized the sideways vibrola did not work that well altogether. There is some inherent construction flaw which results in too much friction. Every time after lowering (or raising) a note, it seemed to have trouble to return to normal pitch. Tightening the nuts on the bolts would fix that, however that would make it so stiff it was just uncomfortable to use. Also, the cover of the unit is somewhat bulky and kind of got in the way when picking. To make a long story short, I decided to replace it with a Bigsby B7, which has the long tailpiece that will cover most of the holes from the sideways unit and easily make contact to the ground wire. It did need a certain adaptation to make it fit the SG body (remember it is thinner than an ES or Les Paul), but looks cool and most important, is easy to operate and stays in tune. If you want a vibrato for your SG, Bigsby is the best and most reliable IMO. Listen to some John Cipollina occasionally....
Some more little improvements, I replaced the stock tuners with historically correct Kluson double ring tuners, added pointer washers to the knobs and a truss rod cover with "Les Paul" on it. The back of the neck and the headstock received some treatment also to make them less glossy. Now I've got a guitar with a lot of personality, and still way cheaper than a Custom Shop, let alone a vintage SG Les Paul.
Ok this may be a dumb question, but if I don't use the sidebar will it stay in tune... Like does the sidebar cause the stability problem or does the guitar just not stay in tune.
Really? For 2000 bucks I would expect the damn guitar to even make me dinner, let alone having the string to stay in the saddle.
Make you dinner and maybe a massage after too.
I have the maestro model and i dont have this problem at all
Chris Clark 😅
Hi this Guitar is neck heavy or the vibrola adds weight so that is well balanced ?
Strange they would even sell that.
I recommend a Düsenberg Les Trem 2, if somebody wants a trem on a TOM bridge guitar.
You can put a vibro- lock for the look and will keep it in tune. (So I hear)
What I want to know is does having the vibrola give it better sustain or a better sound than the stop bar tailpiece? Or is just the look? (Not speaking about a functional can't keep in tune vibrola)
Another Gibson with QC issues. Darn! Add that to the Les Pauls with dings underneath the scratch plates. That's not good enough.
I love this style maestro! I wonder if blocking off the trem unit and taking the arm off would make it a whole lot more stable.
There is a way to lock these down and immobilize the bar. Many owners of originals do that. I believe you have to buy a special product though
@@Trog You can actually block it off with a simple washer.
Maybe it's my background as a Fender guy, but I like the look of the vibrato unit WITHOUT the cover on it. Getting to see all the gadgetry that's going on inside is kind of neat.
Agreed and so does Billy Gibbons when he rocks his.
This is purely a matter of personal taste and opinion, so there's no objectively correct answer. But I'm glad to know that I've got some good company on this one!
Hey Austin, how about installing a roller bridge on one of those... I know it's not vintage correct nor will it add to its value, but in terms of functionality? I've done that mod to a number of guitars with great results, but they were no Gibsons... So, is it viable to do that with one of these Gibson guitars?
What’s the point? If you have to retune every time you use the trem bar, why buy this axe?
I love Austin’s reviews. I own the stop tail version of this guitar. These are such great sounding guitars.
What about this specific model doesn't hold the tune when using the vibrola? Did you fixed?
can you please review the epiphone g-400 pro 1966 limited edition? it goes for 429.99 and I really want it but i need a review for how it’s set up. I absolutely love your videos Trogly and your reviews are the best, Thanks!
Trogly is not the hero we deserve, but the hero we need.
You never hear much about the green tupil / keystone Kluson Deluxe tuners, prolly cause there's not much good to say about them (other than them being "traditional" tuners of course)- but are they traditional or do they just look traditional? I will say the latest ones do work very smoothly- all the way up to the first good bang which hoplessly destroys them. Impacts usually break the peening which holds the back onto the frame. After that, it's all down hill. Some even break without ever seeing an impact.
These latest Kluson Deluxe tuners are even more of a hybrid in their construction compared to the Klusons Deluxes of a few decades ago. Unfortunately, the diecast back is now "peened-fastened" to the diecast frame (total yuk!). The good part is, instead of the old style press-fit headstock bushing, they now use a higher tollerance 10mm bushing just like a typical diecast tuner. But this peening thing ain't good news folks.
The old Kluson Deluxes had a stamped metal back with two bent metal tabs that held the back to the stamped frame. Even this older method wasn't that great at handling abuse or impacts and the newer peening method is just not durable enough to withstand the rigors of a performance. For this same reason, many professional guitarists of the 60's - 80's replaced their keysones with Grovers and Schallers. Grovers are usually considered "a traditional upgrade" on old Gibsons and do not typically devaluate vintage guitars like a new shiny set of Gotohs or Sperzels would. They are definitely heavier though, so if neck weight is of concern, Grovers may not be the best option.
Even though the old Kluson Deluxes were arguably more durable, they still weren't as durable as most other tuners you could buy back then. What makes the Kluson Deluxe a hybrid tuner is that the back holds ALL the inner workings together. If the peening should break for any reason, your tuner is usually doomed. You may find yourself trying to fix the broken tuner (which almost never works) or looking on Feebay or Feeverb for an individual replacement with little luck. Consider a nice set of Grover 102s and have your Guitar Guy install em. JMHO. Guitartec
Trog.. Will lubing all contact points on this. trem system correct instability?? What is the radius of the board? My "17" Strat Elite wouldn't stay in tune for a stum either until I went of the saddles, nut and pivot points with nut sauce.. Day and night.. but that system may not improve so much but it appears to have quite a few contact points that can be properly lubricated.. No one should buy a guitar orgun without going over it completely and doing a proper lube job. It's really not fair to the guitar or firearm to expect it to preform optimally out of the box. Kinda like foreplay..without it.. No one will enjoy it. Factory does notin most cases use conditioner on the board but because it comes that way doesn't mean it should stay that way.. My 17 strat and 17 LP standard rosewood boards were dry as a popcorn fart.. What a difference.
Crazy! First thing; thé flower on headstock is not centered !!! And second; how Can they sale a vibrato reissue SG 61 if that level with a non stabilized vibrato? Forget it !!! Take a regular Stop bar Tune'o'Matic Unit !!!! ;-)
Got the option to buy one of the used. Is the trem a problem if you don't use it ?
I've this exact model in January 2020 and it looks absolutely stunning. However, I disagree on two main criticisms. First I didn't came across any string saddle problem when I first played till few moments ago so I don't if it is design issue or Mr. Trogly got a slightly defective piece. Also to add I play hard, pinch hard and strum hard and so far no tuning issue. All the strings so far are in place and seems perfect.
For tunning part I've played this guitar for about 6 to 8 hrs straight and it remained in tune till the end. I picked it again after about a week and did very minute tunning.
However with vibrola it tends ro go out of tune. So I don't use it. But I get a lot of effects otherwise.
So I disagree because my SG 61 standard with sideways vibrola plays great and it sounds great.
Did you stretch our the strings before playing it? No matter the tremolo if the strings still have play in them it's never going to stay in tune. Since you noted how it kept getting out of tune less I don't think you did as by using them trem your starting to stretch them
Yes, the strings were stretched
Almost bought one of these but after 5 minutes of playing I spent more time tuning than actually playing. Quality control needs to be alot better too
i wanted you to play back in black soooooooo bad this one sounds great!
enjoyed sunshine of your love tho
That 10:35 cropped internet messsage about capacitor materials sounds like utter BS to me.
I have had three SG's. Sadly enough one I did not like, one needed to much repair and the third I broke a tuner on it but the replacement Schaller tuners work better and look more vintage than the Deluxe ones that came on it. It sounds more like a Gibson than any Gibson that I have ever played.
I like the aesthetic of the sideway vibrola , it's somehow really rock and roll to me.... kinda better looking than the maestro. BUT functionality wise, the maestro wins so looks like I'm gonna have a harder time choosing now
This is exactly what I am thinking. I like the look of the sideways more than the maestro. Totally agree! I am probably gonna go with this one.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and attitude with us. These new Cherry/Mahogany SGs from Gibson are absolutely beautiful but : To me , Who would want a tremolo on a Gibson SG (Solid body Guitar). The SG's claim to fame is its bright, sweet, tight tone when plugged into a great vintage amplifier cranked to 11. A tremolo would only suck a bit of the goodness away from that classic tone. If you want to make pretty music get a Fender. I am an old geezer. I remember the band " Quick Silver Messenger Service. The guitar player in that band had a SG with the Tremolo and , he is long forgotten.
If I were to just not use the vibrolo, would it stay in tune better?
Maybe tighten those springs so that it comes all the way back. Just a guess. Cuz it seems like they’re not returning
Does it in tune maybe because you need to break in the trem system?
Do the 2019 Junior and SG Junior please!!
RobZoso please the junior yes!
Seeing the A string coming out of the vibrola to the bridge bent that bad is painful to see.
If you want a usable tremolo, stick with a strat
I've never been able to make a Strat tremolo come back in tune, either.
Im afraid to even look at the guitar, I fear it might insantly go out of tune
Well - with a Strat (along with all the things there are to improve, lubricate etc. the System), try doing your "Whammy-Vibrato" & before resuming playing, quickly do a silent (muted) "Bar- Wiggle" to get things settled back in. An old trick & usually works great for me (BTW, Kudos to that-there Italian guy who showed us this on YT) & impresses the Chicks like crazy !
Oh, please review more 2019 models! I was eagering for your review on the TV Yellow Les Paul w/ P-90's!
Sounds nice. You had my phone buzzing with that neck pickup.