How to write LGBTQIA+ Representation the RIGHT way |
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2024
- In this video I cover a number of BAD types of LGBTQ+ representation that we see in the media; from harmful stereotypes to subconscious defaults. But it's not all doom and gloom, I'll also be talking about three things you SHOULD do when writing LGBTQIA+ characters and representation.
Covering how to avoid the "token gay" and provide diverse representation, as well as suggesting some creators to check out if you want to further your research. Speaking of those creators, you can find them here!
✧ Ash Hardell @HeyThere005
✧ Lynn Saga @lynnsaga1397
✧ Rowan Ellis @HeyRowanEllis
✧ Jessica Kellgren-Fozard @jessicaoutofthecloset
✧ Jamie Raines @Jammidodger
🏳️🌈 TIMESTAMPS 🏳️🌈
00:00 Intro
01:20 Don't do this!
21:08 Do this instead!
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"you wouldnt only have one straight character" i would. i literally cant think of any straight characters in my story 💀
LOL sounds like not having enough LGBTQ+ representation isn't a problem for you 😆
My book I'm writing. It's a superhero book or series, and it just happened that several of my characters felt like they were lgbt. I'm still working out the draft outline, but I have been researching how to write about great and realistic lgbt characters. This video helped a lot
I’m so happy I could help, best of luck!!
I'm drawing a superhero series about one based on me, so she's a geek, neo-hippie, head-banger, African-American, autistic, transgender, and bisexual. In a scary, high-crime city, she's a Gen X high-schooler in the '90s, who survives a school shooting at her inner-city school. She's also based on Venom and Spawn, with Superman-like powers.
"Your sexuality does not make you inherently villainous."
You're telling me I have to work at it like everyone else? *sigh* Alright, then.
Don't worry I'm sure you'll achieve your villainous dreams with just a bit of effort 😆
Most real villains are cis/het people, with scary nicknames, prison tattoos, and muscles.
@@darlalathan6143 Well, the time has come for some skinny asexual villain representation.
*Evil asexual laughter*
Do research, talk to the community, create your character, add the story, incorporate the indenty, avoid the bad tropes/ cliches, be respectful, treat them right. Anyway this is a great video thanks for sharing. I have the themes in my world, because of my alien species in my world at multi-gender. These videos help a lot....thanks for sharing
I’m glad you liked it, thanks! It is a lot when you write it all out😅 but the concepts are usually the same throughout. Glad my video could help 😊
Fanastic Video I think.
Disney is known to give villains very gay coded stuff..But I think "The Owl House"(Disney show but all credit to Dana) is a good example of how to do LGBTQ+ representation
Thank you! And yes I love that show, it’s amazing!
@@WritingWithAsh YES :D
I have a complex, tragic gay character who dies at the end of my book 👀. But all my beta readers (including a sensitivity reader) said it made sense and thought it was a fitting end to his character arc, so.... Hopefully not a "bury your gays" trope?? Idk... 😬
I don’t think it HAS to be the bury your gays trope just because they die, if it fits their arc, it fits their arc. Especially if you’ve been thoughtful about it! It’s more that people would kill their characters off because they were gay, which it doesn’t sound like that’s what you’re doing at all.
I don't think you should worry about it at all.
It's just as bad as a 'trope' to have art conform to a rigid agenda about how certain characters should be depicted. Art should be real, vital, and undermine expectations. Some gay people are tragic or die tragically, and depicting this can now actually be subversive in its own way now. This happened recently in an acclaimed film by a gay writer/director, and it was the correct artistic decision. IMO.
Tbh, if you are thinking about it or worried,, easiest way to avoid it coming off like that is just to have at least one other character who's also gay or queer who doesn't die
Depending on how you write something like that it's perfectly fine and also just because a lbgtq character happens to die that doesn't make it an example bury your gays it sort of depends on how you write the story and how you go about them dying but alot of the time when it either involves the only gay couple or the only gay person in the book then the death is more likely to be branded as being bury your gays.
Sounds like you are doing it well, with love and respect for this tragic character. Burying gays is IMO a cheap, lazy way to get an emotional reaction or tidy a meandering plot by removing a character the author considers superfluous. Maybe burying gays is related to fridging the protagonist's love interest.
I'm working on a fantasy novel with characters who are diverse. Of each diverse character I tell myself this individual needs enough "selfness" to be the protagonist in their own story. I don't show every detail, but the reader should sense that this (LGBTQ+, POC, disabled person, atheist) is as real and fully formed as any characters. It's a problem when minority characters are used like fashionable accessories to make the protagonist look good or give them a waif to rescue.
Mind you, I don't have enough written to be sure I'm not creating a mess with dozens of main characters, but that's the plan. With what beta readers tell you, OP, it sounds like you're succeeding. 😊
I low-key subverted the "promiscuous bisexual" stereotype by giving my protagonist a female childhood crush and a male love interest in adulthood.
Some people even LBGTQ people would be getting excited and start saying "Oh yeah we've got an LBGTQ character"but I do definitely understand the argument that ideally its not something we need to get excited about and that it should just be treated like being straight or like that of a character being in a straight relationship.
Exactly. I totally get excited when there's an LGBTQ+ character! But I hope that someday there will be enough representation that it's not a pleasant surprise anymore; it's a given.
"Nonbinary people tend to be afab, skinny, white and androgynous or aliens. But just because that's how I look like that's not every nonbinary person"
The commenter is an alien confirmed 😄
LOL no comment 👽
I have four main characters in my fantasy stories: Elkar and Rikter, who are the gay characters, and Emisia (Elkar's childhood friend) and Zak, who are both straight. They are students at a school that's kind of like the Jedi Order meets the Aes Sedai (from The Wheel of Time). They are about 11 at the start, but grow up as the story progresses.
Elkar is sweet and timid, and he has a flute that he likes to play. He's also a genius, and the only non-human of the group. He toughens up later. Rikter is a prince. He's the third son of the younger brother of the local king, and joined the school when he was 8 because he's unlikely to inherit anything (he's kind of inspired by Aegon the Unlikely in ASOIAF). He's a warrior, and the best swordsman (swordsboy?) in their year. Emisia is a tomboy and very protective of Elkar. I haven't really come up with much of a personality for Zak yet, as I'm still in the planning stages. Well, except that he's slightly (only slightly) uncomfortable with Elkar and Rikter's relationship.
I also have a villain, Volkyn, who's the same race as Elkar (they're the Elves/Valyrians of my world), and a mix between Ganondorf from The Legend of Zelda and Marchion Ro from Star Wars: The High Republic.
There is a third LGBT character I have in my head, a bisexual non-binary eunuch assassin. But before deciding whether or not to include them I'm going to do some research into trans and non-binary people in the middle ages and the ancient world. It's fantasy with a setting inspired by the past, after all. I don't want it to feel too modern.
GL with your research and your story!
I’m sure that there were trans and nonbinary people back then 🤔 they might just not have had the ability to be open about it or had the same words for it. I’d be interested to see what your research finds!
There is a particular series I would like to recommend that I think does LGBTQ+ representation perfectly.
It is called John Finnemore’s Souvenir Programme. Now, if you recognise John Finnemore as a name, that might be because for the second season of Good Omens, Neil Gaiman brought him on to help write it since Terry Pratchet obviously couldn’t help co-write. And I mean, did you see that second season? Representation everywhere.
Anyway, John Finnemore’s Souvenir Programme is a sketch comedy radio show where 5 actors, including the writer John Finnemore, play every character. The first 8 seasons of the show don’t really follow any specific story, they are just funny to listen to. But the 9th season that I am recommending actually has a proper story to it. You follow a family through sketches showing snapshots of their life, starting in 2020 and working your way all the way back to the 1890’s. You don’t need to listen to the first 8 seasons to appreciate the 9th, but there are a few references to the previous 8 in the 9th, so I would recommend listening in full.
Anyway, on to talking about the representation. In the 9th series, there are 5 different LGBTQ+ characters in this family. But I think it’s notable, that for only one of them are we actually told their identity. For only one of them we get a scene where he actually says he’s gay. For another we see his husband later down the line. And we have two women from the early 1900’s (one of whom is a “male impersonator”. Sounds like a drag king to me) who are in a relationship, we aren’t specifically told whether they’re gay or Bi or what; but they’re two women in a relationship. And then there is Uncle Newt, the person who I would argue is the main character, he is (I’m pretty sure given one particular scene) AroAce. And he is played by the author John Finnemore himself. He is an amazing character and, like you say, he is a character that just happens to be AroAce. I feel like if I tell you too much about his character it would ruin the show, and I certainly don’t want that. But I tell you this, being ace myself I have looked for a lot of ace representation in media where I can find it. And I don’t think I have found a better Ace character than Uncle Newt.
Also, over the course of the 9 series, every one of the 5 actors plays at least one LGBTQ+ character. There is one sketch in particular I like that uses the fact that most people see straight relationships as a default as a tool to help make the joke land better. Without making LGBTQ+ people the joke.
The sketch is showing two men talking, and well, it’s not a very good conversation because one of them is being incredibly annoying despite the other’s attempts to keep the conversation going. The punchline is the one who is trying to keep the conversation going saying, “So do you go on many dates?”, the other replies, “Oh hundred and hundreds!”, “Any second dates?”, “Not one!”
The fact that most people think straight relationships are the default makes very few people think this sketch is a date until it’s mentioned. And when it’s revealed as being a date, the joke is enhanced because up until that point we the viewers would mostly assume it’s a general conversation that’s not going well. But it being a date and that fact only being revealed later makes the joke even funnier. It’s one of the little details I like.
happy Pride
Happy pride!
I actually have an issue where idk if one of my characters falls into a harmful stereotype or not. I have a non-binary character who can specifically transform into a big cat like creature. And I have heard that there is an issue of too many non-binary characters being shapeshifters and idk if this counts. To add some important context: they aren’t the only character who can do this in fact they aren’t the only one in the main cast who can do this. This ability isn’t abnormal in their world and is limited to one specific transformation per person so they aren’t able to swap to any shape they want. And they aren’t the only Non-binary character in the story ether they are 1 of 4 maybe… I maybe forgetting somebody tbh but the character in question is the one that I’m asking for.
If only 1 of several non-binary characters can shape shift, and only one of several shape shifters is non-binary, I would think that is not at all a problem.
I don't think that sounds like a problem at all, especially if you have more character's who can shapeshift and they aren't the only nonbinary character. Good luck with your story!
@@JaniceLHz Thank you to both of you; your comments help a lot. Also, thank you for your video, Ash.
In my opinion the best way to write representation of any community is to base the characters on people you know rather then archetypes. Take Damien from mean girls, yes, he’s too gay to function but he’s also more then that and tina fey even said he’s based on her actual friends
This is a good tip, yeah!
17:02
Me: thats my gay character.
Them: and that one?
Me: thats my other gay character,,, and my other other gay character. Oh, and youll never guess for the next one--
😂😂
In my story I intentionally wrote my LGBT+ characters to seem as normal as possible because not only have I seen a LOT of stereotypes surrounding the ones I’m trying to write, but most of the ones I’m friends with completely normal. The promiscuous bisexual? Nope, the bisexual in my story hates almost everyone 😭🙏🏾 Flamboyant gay best friend who gossips and shops? The main guy in my story is probably as masculine as you’ll get. And this is not because I’m trying to subvert expectations and show people LGBT people are just people (although I am) it’s because that’s the way those characters would logistically end up because of their respective environments.
Just thought I’d mention this since this representation is very important to me even though I’m not a part of the community.
Yes! I love that. The best way to subvert a stereotype honestly is just to have your characters be the way they naturally are.
When I was younger, I didn't have Queer characters in my stories either, because I went to Catholic school and didn't know it was even a thing. My parents never explained it to me, but we are also not homophobic. It just never came up. I like it a lot better with my niece, who, freaking genius girl, right, she comes into my office here when she's eight years old and sees me watching a music video by my favourite musician, Jeremy Dutcher. He's where I got the name for my protag and I told him so when I met him back in December. He didn't mind. But the conversation between me and my niece, and, again, she was EIGHT:
Her; "You were watching him last time I was over, too."
Me: "Yep."
Her: "Well, if you love him so much, why don't you MAAAAAAAAAAARRY him?" (You know that way kids say it.)
Me; "Because he likes guys."
Her: "Oh, okay."
End of talk! Seriously, that's how "big" of a deal it doesn't have to be. Granted, she's very smart, and I love my girl, but even a year or two later:
Her: "Mommy, I just saw two women on TV who were kissing."
My sister: "Yeah?"
Niece: "And that's okay?"
My sister; "Yep. So long as they love each other."
The only reason I'm making a slightly bigger deal out of it in my writing is because the aforementioned Austen and Jeremy are also both BIPOC, and where two intersections meet can be a dangerous place. During the climax of the first book, right in the middle, something REALLY BAD has gone down, an you see from my antihero's perspective, right, Jeremy leaning on Austen's shoulder, and Austen all, "Well, we don't know what's happened yet, so calm DOWN, please, and no matter what it was, stop BLAMING YOURSELF, thank you," and he's just a very supportive friend, but Stephen, my antihero, he's only zeroing in on their body language, because he's a nasty little homophobe at this point in the series, and his interior monologue (neither of them know he's spying) is all, "Oh Jesus, why not just shove your tongues down one another's throats while you're at it?" Which isn't even what the scene is about, duh. He's a little shit at the start of the series in ALMOST every respect, but he does clean up his act by the end of book two.
I love this. Kids don't have that bias unless it's taught to them, and I think hopefully the more representation we see, the more that bias won't be taught in the future.
Best of luck with your story, it sounds really interesting!! 👀
I would actually like to see positive asexual representation in media. I am so incredibly tired and hurt by lack of positive asexual representation if we get any at all. We are either portrayed as hyper intelligent, self-obsessed, narcissistic loners who are too brilliant for sex or love, or infantilized like little children who cannot function in the real word. No, Todd from Bojack is not positive- he is yet another stereotype of the "messy asexual" and "manchild asexual" tropes. I was disgusted by the writing in HOUSE where an asexual couple was magically "fixed" by being forced to have sex- it was so incredibly harmful. The only positive depiction of asexuality that I have seen is Dayo from "Raybearer."
I haven’t seen any of the shows you’re mentioning, personally, so can’t speak to that. But I do agree that we need more Asexual representation for sure! It’s something I definitely try to bring to my own stories and would love to see more of in media at large.
I have a smattering of 2SLGBTQIA+ characters throughout my books, and the way the "conversation" went down with one of them was as follows:
Me; "Hey, Austen, you mind being one of the comic reliefs?"
Austen: "UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, I'm gay AND I'm Black, so you had better give me substance, too."
Me; "Yeah...I just need--"
Austen: "NO. Jeremy's bisexual and Indigenous and you don't make him funny all the time, either."
Me: "Good point, good point. Sorry."
Some authors say that the in-your-head personification of characters doesn't help the writing process, but I find it does help to treat them like real people. Jeremy's my protagonist and resident good-boy, and he's only ever been, to the starting point of the series, with Austen and with a girl named Olivia. Austen's his best friend, and they basically had a thing going from the second Austen hit puberty (Jeremy's a year older), but they were always on-again-off-again without breaking one another's hearts. Jeremy went and dated this girl Olivia up until his dad died when he was sixteen years old, at which point he got really depressed, and they drifted apart. His mom, brothers, and Austen were the only people who were able to get through to him on any level, so he kind of took up with Austen again, but the SECOND Jeremy turned eighteen, and Austen was still seventeen, it was a very strict hands-off, we're just friends territory. This takes place in Florida, where the age of consent is kind of wobbly (you CAN have sex if you are BOTH within the sixteen-to-eighteen range, but neither of them wanted to ride any lines), but by this point, Jeremy was also feeling kind of passionate about Victoria, the new girl in town, and Austen is just like, 'If you MUST." But the two of them have only ever hit the sheets with one another, so I would hardly call Jeremy promiscuous.
Wonderful video!!
Thank you!
This is a great video :)
Thank you so much! 💙
You absolutely have to do a collab with Astrid Lundberg. You all look like identical twins.
Well now I'm following Astrid Lundberg so maybe that's somewhere in the future 😆
Evolution and LGBTQ+ issues? How did you know I used to want to be a biologist 😂
I didn't expect this video to appear in my feed, I wasn't searching or anything.
It's an important topic and I think your well spoken, a little practice in video editing and you could make some good videos.
Happy Pride
Thank you! And yeah, editing is something I'm working on 😅
Happy Pride!
My default is ace, panro, and "gender? Why does that really matter?",,, i remember way back in the day hearing ppl say stuff like "i dont know how to write girl/boy characters" and being like,, "wdym? Theyre the same thing???",,,, yeah, turns out im nonbinary,,, the amount of characters id write when rping with my friends at 3am on instagram dms that went by they/them prolly shoudlve raised some flags(wrote girl and guy characters too,, and didnt know enough for mixed pronouns to be sprinkled in, tho im sure i wouldve if i did,, but it was definitely more than the average population of nb characters, lol),,,,, but yeah,, theoretically,, having a default isnt inherently good, but ive made the executive decision all my characters are gonna be ace bc i am and i said so(and aces could use more rep anyways, especially split attraction model stuff with all the different varieties of combos),, then for romantic orientation,, whatever fits the vibe is what it ends up as,, but my default is panro to keep the options open,,, and gender ill often decide at the start when making the character,, but sometimes im like,, ill go witj this for now,, but maybe ill switch it up later for more variety,,,, also one of the reasons having thembe panro helps if imma just end up switching it anyways, lol
If you're going to have a default it might as well add representation to the world! The "I don't know how to write girl / boy characters" thing always confused me too. Turns out I'm nonbinary... 😆
I sometimes think about a story where two pals, boy and girl, who often go on whacky, dangerous adventures together end up fighting some weirdo mafia for some reason, which causes them a ton of stress. There's also a subplot where the normally brave girl struggles if telling her best friend she's a lesbian is a good idea while he struggles with his own inferiority complex due to him being known as a smart guy while still struggling to read and spell. It's cliché, I'm aware. And definitely has some stuff that needs cleaning. But I always end up chuckling at these idiots shenanigans lol.
Who cares if it’s cliche? Go for it! 👀
I think that when LBGTQ people are being depicted in novels particularly when it comes to LBGTQ men they are typically depicted by default as being weak,extremely effeminant and not very brave.I understand that idea of teaching that not all men having to fit into the catagory of brave,strong,traditionally masculine or even straight but it gets kind of frustrating when I wind up noticing certain types of boxes which LBGTQ male character don't often tend to break out of even while the novels and stuff are being written by LBGTQ people.
Totally! I think that we need more representation of every kind of person and identity; not just one version of them. We want to remove the boxes that people are being fit into, not make new ones.
@@WritingWithAsh I think that rather depends on the nature of the box; they can keep people out in a good way.
@@seto749 True I suppose 🤔I guess it's all about the specific circumstance.
Thanks for the video. But is that an issue if I tend to make all of my lead characters LGBTQ+?
It just happens like that. I just think "oh, it would be cool for the plot if she falls in love with her friend, I kinda ship these two".
But I don't identify with LGBTQ+ community myself, so I have some fear that I could be unintentionally fetishizing my characters.
I mean, I write the premise of the story and then I realize that I ship my character A and character B. I think "okay, I guess it would fit character B to be bi, and A to be gay". But doesn't that mean that the first reason of deciding on their orientation is that I shipped them?
(And that feels somewhat wrong)
And for character B I also think "hmm, it would fit them well to be non-binary or gender-fluid, since they're a spirit that can take different shapes".
It feels natural, but at the same time I kinda feel like I'm overusing LGBTQ+ without thinking deeper into it.
And then I end up thinking "alright, maybe I should also add a hetero couple for a change", cause it feels like I'm underrepresenting it xD
Honestly I think it’s just going to come down to how you portray them in your story. If your lead characters tend to be LGBTQ+ even though you’re not a member of the community yourself, I don’t think that’s a problem. We need allies too!
If you’re worried about how your characters might be coming off, I would suggest trying to find sensitivity readers if possible. But I think that if you’re thinking these thoughts and worrying about portraying them correctly, that’s a good sign that you care and are going to try and write your characters as respectfully and authentically as possible.
I will
A fair case made for LBTQIA+ representation.
I am concerned you are reading stereotypes and "villanous" behaviour based on your own biases.
Nah, media is known for depicting villainous characters as very gay coded.
Disney is a BIG culprit of this. They even admitted to basing Ursula off a drag queen.
Exactly this! When I talked about that bit I was thinking of Disney.
Like the other replier said, there's actually a history of media (especially Disney) using gay coded characters as villains. Rowan Ellis has a really interesting video on it!
@@WritingWithAsh but that is not what you are referencing in your video, you talk about promiscuity and "predatory lesbians" not Disney villains being gay coded. It would be helpful to give examples because as a pansexual and AFAB person those are the things I and others get accused of for just doing perfectly healthy and normal things. There is nothing wrong with promiscuity for example, the idea that it is villainous comes from Christian "morals" of what is acceptable behaviour. As for predatory lesbians, some are accused of being such simply for being platonically affectionate towards straight friends...
maybe I find your suggestions a little upsetting because I come from a time where there was no, none, nada representation in media, no, none, nada information available and no, none, nada in the way of pro lgbt laws. That my lived experience gives me a different view.
@@Deldenary I'm very sorry if anything I said upset you, that was not my intention at all! What I meant was that the media has a history of twisting things.
For example, like you said about lesbians being accused of acting predatory simply for being affectionate towards straight friends, I don't believe that the lesbian showing platonic affection for a friend is doing anything wrong (of course they're not). However negative queer representation would spin it as bad to paint the lesbian character in a negative light. I don't believe that person is actually doing anything wrong, of course!
All I meant with that section of the video is that media used to have a tendency to villainize LGBTQ+ characters (or to code villains as though they were LGBTQ+), and so people who grew up with media like that may accidentally do the same with their villains, not realizing that the original media had homophobic undertones.
3:32 as a predatory lesbian i love writing predatory lesbians
The majority of lgbtq characters are written by lgbtq people, so if theres a problem with the representation then theres a problem with how lgbtq people see themselves and want to portray lgbtq culture.
actually lgbt+ characters are mainly made by companies to get to a broader audience. so yeah no..the bad ones are usually by non lgbt+ people
this comes across quite preachy..
how so?
How so? So you believe that accurate representation and not reverting to tired, harmful stereotypes is somehow preachy? Hmm, maybe you need to take a long, hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why you think that.
W.H.O.C.A.R.E.S
You apparently, clicked the video, watched and commented, lot of effort there...
If you got nothing nice to say, say nothing at all 🧞
if u didn't..why bother clicking on the video
also 'Who cares'? I DO :)
I do and you clearly cared enough to comment so yeah… also why are you hating
I care, you obviously cared enough to comment, that takes some work...