I remember a HEMA instructor said something along the lines of, "I appreciate that you're trying to personally improve as a swordsman, but this is a historical revival first and your personal journey second. If you find a better technique then we'll compare it to the manuscripts and see how they compare in a historical sense, but this *is* a revival *first.* "
This is why Mixed Weapons Martial Arts / Freefencing is becoming a thing. There are a lot of people people who want an MMA competition format but for weapons. Katana vs. Longsword, Kali Stick vs. European Singlestick, Bowie Knife vs. Kukri, etc etc. etc. With full grappling and striking capacity. Traditional Weapon Based Martial Arts are already a dead language. HEMA came out of nowhere and started live, full contact, steel fencing with actual properly made swords. Which is awesome. But they also put accuracy to historical manuscripts above actual Fighting ability. Which just kills it. They caught lightning in a bottle... and don't know what to do with it. :( Imagine Filipino Martial Arts, but with the top level gear HEMA uses. Or even Kenjutsu/Kendo breaking from tradition and steel sparring again. That would be incredible.
I kinda feel like its cool, and all we have treatises like Fiores to see what people were doing back in the day, but i also see how its like trying to figure out dead language. All that context in culture, and everything that has changed its like looking through a window to alien world for us. I still wish to start HEMA for my history enthusiasm, but if i would want to actually learn how to fight in useful manner in modern world i would pick mma club every day of the week.
@@hailhydreigon2700 at this point, HEMA community is splitting itself again. One side tried to preserve history above fighting, which is not a wrong thing, and one side trying to evolve the art through contact with other nation arts (like how the Chinese are doing right now, using HEMA to revive and evolve their own ancient weapon arts). The weapon based martial art in the future will be just like hand 2 hand martial art now days
The big difference between HEMA and a lot of TMA is if something works, you will most definitely find it in one or more texts that are considered HEMA sources. And similarly you will rarely find anything that just plain doesn't. Also, it pays to remember there is no centralized ideology behind all of HEMA; there are people who seek to recreate certain historical combat styles as accurately as they can, people who want to fight the best they can based on all available material (I am in this group, same as the club I attend), and there are people who only want to compete and don't care about whether they look authentic doing so as long as they win.
Every martial art has it's own language and it's own dialects. Wrestling has Greco-Roman and shute. Jiujitsu has BJJ and judo. Taekwondo has WTF, ITF, and ATA. Karate has shotokan, goju, and kenpo. Kickboxing has, Muay Thai, lethwei, and K1. Kung Fu has a bajillion versions. I love the analogy, and it's a great way of saying that if you focus on one aspect you will get really good at that conversation to the detriment of all others. If you practice everything to a passing amount you can get by but will never truly succeed. I still love the line "Now get out there and train," because it doesn't matter what you train, just so long as you train something. Just, please, don't put the blinders on when you do so.
nicely said. no need to throw more complications on something already so complicated, lol! personaly, i think the analogy is way off, but a nice try. everyone has a straight punch, everyone has a cross, everyone has a hook.. know what i mean?
I don't think is fair to say that Muay Thai is a dialect of Kick Boxing. And the Gracies learned western wrestling, the original Gracie brothers learned CACC and Graeco from Dudu, and Rolls learned Folk Wrestling from Bob Anderson.
I understand what you tried to say, but Muay Thai and Lethwei are not the dialects of Kickboxing. Muay Thai and Lethwei are centuries older than Kickboxing.
"Don't seek to follow the footstep of the wise ; seek what they sought" The first part is literally almost every TMA styles are doing right now while modern mixed martial art is doing the 2nd part.
In all fairness, MMA is ultimately for entertainment. More comparable to gladiators, which is pretty niche. The military, law enforcement, and organized crime are more akin to seeking what most martial artists of old sought.
@@LgLegion I'm not saying they aren't skilled fighters. but obviously against someone with modern weaponry and tactics, gladiators would lose horribly. If you transported Samurai from the past into modern times, they wouldn't be swinging swords. They'd be learning how to fly F-35s.
Another good reason to learn Latin is that there is a wealth of valuable wisdom written in Latin and you always lose something in translation. You can get translations of Saint Augustine's Confessions or Saint Thomas's Summa Theologica, but it's not the same.
It's not that there aren't good reasons to learn Latin, it's where your priorities lie. If you aren't fluent in English then >99% of people would be better served to learn English before Latin. If you are fluent in English, >99% of people would be better served to learn Spanish / Mandarin / Russian / Japanese / Arabic before Latin. For >99% of people, there will never come a good time to learn Latin, that's the point of it being a "dead language".
As a linguist this was wonderful to listen to, I had no idea you had that background! You could also say TMA schools are like language prescriptivists placing artificial and archaic rules over what's the "correct" way to speak versus recognizing that the rules that actually exist are whatever leads to effective communication
A lot of them did, yes, and explicitly so. See, for example, Funakoshi's book, in which he explicitly states that Karate should keep evolving, but then you have whatever karate is now and I just look away in confusion.
@@cahallo5964 that's not because karate "evolved" that's because dipshts that didn't and still don't know anything are teaching martial arts and they shouldn't be teaching at all because they're terrible fighters themselves. Never trust an instructor who can't even beat you or let alone anyone else in the class.
Literally had this conversation with my TKD master the other day. How growth and adapting the art to the times matters more. That is what the original masters would want. How any art even outside the martial arts can hope to survive with the passage of time is to evolve. To think anything else isn't realistic. If I ever threw a kick in a street fight, it's to the leg firing in the straightest simplest way. Not a tornado kick to the head. The shortest path between two points is a straight line. To study a martial art is to teach to you a way of controlling your body. To fight.. is to understand how to realistically apply. That is found in actual sparring and fighting and being willing to be open to interpretation in your art. No style is perfect. No one skill set is enough.
Ramsey Dewey is the type of guy to mix martial arts and linguistics. How can you not love this channel - so enlightening, entertaining, and insightful. I’ve noted many parallels between languages and martial arts, and I really like the angle you took with your own comparison and analogy of the two. Great content Ramsey, always appreciate your input 🙌
I literally just found him in my recommendations a day or two ago, and he's really impressed me with the few videos I've had a chance to watch. Quite the warrior-philosopher.
Iirc there was a story of two people who met at a comicon type event. They spoke separate languages except for Klingon so they were able to communicate with that
I remember meeting the woman from this story online. I think one of them was Polish? Which if you're familiar with, shares very little with those of us who speaking latin and germanic root languages. They fell in love, got married. Learned more conventional languages over time together.
I love this comparison between martial arts and languages. I love linguistic studies and after hearing your explanation, it makes so much sense and now I wonder why I never thought of it in the first place. What a fascinating and interesting video coach
Its silly to me when people criticize traditional martial arts for kids. It teaches body coordination. I'm a bjj guy, but my kids are gonna start in tae Kwon do or karate so they can learn to use their little limbs
It's just more weapons in their arsenal. Tkd techniques are everywhere in mma. Sticking to one style no matter what, is the only thing that doesn't work any more. BJJ has it's pratfalls, as well, like trying to pull guard on concrete, or facing multiple attackers. Yeah, you got the guy in an armbar, but his friend stomped on your face. Even aikido, for all its flaws, can be useful in some situations. My kids will also start with tkd or karate, for the reasons you said, it's a great starting point for little kids.
@@idontwantahandlewtf id also add that TKD and Karate instructors are used to teaching kids. Teaching little guys vs teens vs adults is very different.
@@idontwantahandlewtf correct, but they are NOT styles. If you please, read my long comment above. Just for the record, you do not face multiple attackers with wrestling whatever type of wrestling it is; and TKD are only incidentally in MMA just like ballet has a lot of workleg. But again, sorry to keep you, if you have a minute to waist, I have explained above.
i feel ya there. people tend to overlook some of the other things TMA tends to teach people. without TMA, I probably would be a bit more cocky and have less self control.
Ed Parker believed strongly in having respect for tradition, but not letting it bind you, and that a martial art should continually evolve. I’m happy to have studied American Kenpo before moving on to MMA.
Guns are retarded.. completely unnecessary in modern times. In order to be effective you’d have to have very far warming that something was gonna happen. Or keep it loaded at all times. Then your aim better be insane like James Bond level and you better not make a mistake because the consequences are irreversible. Keep a gun at your house to protect your family? Your kid might get in there and accidentally hurt himself or someone else. Learn to fight or run fast, if you’re worried for your safety, better for the world. And even then you can usually use your brain or words to avoid or keep safe.
Here we go again... No matter how many times it gets pointed out to you that Boxing, Judo, Muay Thai, Wrestling, even Kickboxing are traditional arts as well, and yet have been shown to work time and again for hundreds, and in some cases, thousands of years, you keep pushing this "TMA are bad/useless" narrative, and now Ramsey's doing it too. The worst thing is that even that Krav Maga guest you had on (my bad for not remembering the name) exempted Judo and Muay Thai, and you even agreed and now you're doing it again. It's truly beyond me why, unless it's to pander to the crowd. So yeah mate, it stands to reason that you'd like this analogy, because you do it all the time too, unfortunately.
Agree with Alan. Primarily Ramsey conflates traditional martial arts with dogmatic adherence and then acts as if that definition is the correct way to look at it. Funny enough, this mentality does not help move the “language” forward, it holds it back. Such a shame to see. All that said, I still like RD I just think he’s way off on this point.
As a black belt in karate and jujutsu i see all the techniques shown in this video as something i have practised a lot. However, i would like to add that it is the lack of "realistic fight training" that is the difference between mma and other martial arts. In mma, they fight FOR REAL, and i am not talking about kumite or randori, which is "real" but has their own rules applied to it. Sure, we can also say that mma has its own rules as well since its a sport but the realism of real impact punches and kicks and takedowns etc makes the practitioner more ready for a real life situation. I think its rather the method of HOW you train your techniques that matters and how often you apply them in a more realistic combat system. That was my 2 cents :) Keep the great content going!
Yup use what works, discard what doesn't, add what is your own. Means be honest about your art, evolve and tailor it to whats best for each specific individual. Bruce Lee was very correct
One of my boxing coaches was the head of Canada's Olympic boxing program. He was teaching us to be coaches and one of his lessons was understand why your teaching something so that you can explain to your students the purpose of the technique. I often ended a lesson in some combination or just a simple one punch lesson with 'why do we do this?' and then proceed to explain the point of it. We do this because that's the way it's always been done does not hold a lot of water.
The shift to conceptual development over purely physical execution unleashes the potential of the old techniques while simultaneously allowing for “newer” or “modern” techniques of movement to come to fruition. Great video!
If you had the honor of tasting Jiro sushi (or any high-end sushi), you will understand the value of preserving the tradition. In mastering the tradition. Lex Fridman had a fascinating conversation with Tyler Cowen on this. However, preserving the history and tradition is often in tension with adapting to the ever changing landscape of the modern society. As a casual observer, I appreciate both MMA and TMA. In my own life, I just do rock climbing.
to be puntcual, there is MMA in taditional martial arts, and there is TMA in modern soldier training. It is just, one is for weapon , say TMA, the other is for bare knuckle self defence or combat sport. SOrry I hope I do not sound agitated and rude. one example. KARATE IS NOT BARE HAND, KARATE IS ONLY FOR TOOLS USED AS WEAPONS AND LIGHT WEAPONS. Karate has been adapted to bare hand fight, this is why the confusion has risen. THE NAME ITSELF KARA-TE was distorted as karate become the official Japanese sport: it comes from the chinese ASIAN-HAND or CHINESE HAND and it was distorted into a similar sounding word BARE HAND to make people forget it was originally for WEAPONS and EQUIVALENTO OF KUNG FU.
Excellent content here! It reminded of the stories that my Tai Ji instructor had shared in the classes. Shortly after the White Policy of Australia was banished, he came to study in Australia. The environment back then had him learning the Southern Praying Mantis to help him better manage the encounters "on the streets". As he has a relentless pursuit to learn and improve in his martial arts, he attended a Yang Tai Ji seminar with the goal to speak with the instructor and to be his student. He said that in the short demo, he was thrown to he ground by someone that is 20+ years senior to him. There began his life journey of learning and sharing the art of Yang Tai Ji. I enjoyed his Tai Ji classes as he has sparring sessions and he would also integrate the striking components from Praying Mantis into the classes too.
There are Latin speaking communities where you can have full conversations in Latin. They have incorporated new words for modern day techonology. It's so sad to think that many martisl arts are more dead than Latin
You touched the most sensitive point in Traditional Martial Arts: bigotry of traditionalism! A fighting system refusing to incorporate and to adapt (for) a more efficient technique deserves to die. Simply because it fails in its own meaning: allowing you to win the fight ... and survive. The real mastery of Martial Artists is to adapt. All the Martial Arts, traditional or not, have this basic principle: adapt to your opponent. Remember Bruce Lee: "Be water, my friend!"
This video is beautiful! In my HEMA interpretive work I came across a number of conclusions which are in line and coherent with what you say! The old fighting method is an old language, and the old language was based on the training method of the period, training method was (as it is now) bound the the degrees of freedom of ancient training equipment... The chain of connections keeps going, but the ending result is simply “another language” different sometimes from the one we speak now in the modern training environment, equal in others!
This is how Im feeling right now. im training with a guy who trained Kyokushin with Mastatsu Oyama and hes a massive wealth of knowledge. The issue is, its become obvious to me that his focus is on preserving the tradition with a large focus on kata and weapons training as opposed to learning to really defend physical confrontations and seeking what they thought. Im hoping I can take what I learned there and try to apply it in a more direct fashion to better forms of training I can find at other gyms.
So much wisdom in a video! Personally, I think what happens is a generalised dishonesty and egotism between teachers-students and also teachers-themselves in the traditional martial arts. I trained Bujinkan Ninjutsu for a while, but I was lucky and had an honest teacher: he said to us in our very first class that the point of Ninjutsu was to play with the techniques, and that most of them were used in battle in the past but are no longer suitable for our reality. This posture requires courage, both to admit to your students that your martial art won't work in a real world fight, and (perhaps most importantly) to admit to yourself what is the reality of what you're teaching. I really enjoyed those classes anyway, and I believe these traditions should still be preserved and teached - but respecting this kind of honesty I mentioned. Edit: I too study linguistics as a hobby, including dead languages like Sumerian and Old Norse. Yeah, it's pretty useless knowledge nowadays, but it's fun to learn! So, why not?
My problem with this video is that the comparison doesn't work. Latin is dead because it was changed and switched with other languages to create new languages and the original users died out / began to use new languages until its now something to be learned from old writings most Latin students don't even speak Latin where as traditional martial arts are still widely practiced from lineages passed down in person - there are reconstructions and they more fit that analogy but they aren't the majority of traditional arts I also have a problem with that definition of traditional arts because it's not the majority of traditional arts - ones like aikido perhaps but so many of the most popular traditional arts were based in adding and evolving, so many more based in learning concepts and applying them to any situation the difference to training say bjj is what kata? The Japanese language? Yes there are obviously schools that have these issues but that is not the art the majority of times and its why I've never liked that definition and the issue that they rufuse to add what would be better techniques, can we don't say the same of boxing not allowing backfists and parrys, of American kick boxing not allowing elbows and knees, of mauy Thai not allowing judo throws of bjj not allowing slams etc And lastly my issue is even if that were the definition of traditional martial arts then what of the arts that aren't like that but are not combat sports. What of the fillipino arts that use their drills in any style what of the wing chun systems that use their chi sao to adapt to grappling and clinching what of the Japanese jujitsu systems that still practice full contact the same as judo the fusen ryu that rolls like bjj what of all these arts that hold to their traditional principles but still train against any technique because all of these techniques have been around since the traditional times so they've always had at least the principles you can learn to use them.What of teakwondo a style that is no longer at all its traditional form it is in fact a sport and yet far less than what it was before that, fencing, shotokan in many cases sports have changed styles to the negative even judo which once had all of the bjj syllabus in their system as well as weapons defence and more is now far less than what it was Combat sport competitions themselves are not even new concepts these systems have been testing long before bjj long before mma but they were never made just for the sport they continued to practice the art. What if they enter combat sports. What if karate combat becomes the next big thing, they're still using karate so what does it change.
and there, i believe, you have just made this analogy work so much better. i think "modern martial artists" seriously have an ego problem that they need checked, because they all have the exact same problems as those tma schools they condemn so much
Judo never had all of BJJ syllabus. BJJ is fundamentally different from Judo for you wrestle for the Mount and / or Back Mount instead of wrestling for the Osaekomi. And even the sole, iirc, judo leglock was added to their syllabus by a non-judoka, and so much in the beginning of Judo, Kano was still alive, that it hardly matter anyway, just like BJJ's striking. Get your things straight.
@@memysurname7521 @Me My surname judo had submissions you did not always look to hold down you could in fact look to get control and choke or submit and all the techniques were already there. As for the techniques from non judoka, most were added from jujutsu, the leg lock was part of fusen ryu. Jigoro kano asked the fusen ryu practicioners who defeated his students to help him improve and develop his art with their techniques he didn't have, they were implimented and mixed with the larger variety of take downs judo had and became part of the syllabus. Along with the locks and submissions judo already had
I trained at an Aikido dojo for decades. While we did DO traditional Aikido, and we had the normal testing and requirements, and followed the traditions handed down, we ALSO did A LOT of mixing it up with other martial arts. Wresting, boxing, BJJ. Anyone we could get into the dojo to train with us, we did. We had military people, police tactical training, weapons people. And yeah, we attempted to adapt 'Aikido' to various situations as much as possible. Hell, we even incorporated scuba diving, why? Because scuba requires balance and breathing and awareness and concern with your diving partner. We found value in our Aikido roots, and we found enlightenment by pull up those roots and giving them legs to walk and run. I believe this could be done with ANY traditional MA. But good, fluid instructors are difficult to find. One of Aikido's advantages was I could travel to almost any place in the world, and find dojo to train at. And we spoke a common 'Aikido' language, but rarely did I find places that were willing to push the boundaries of Aikido, and make it a better art. To be honest, I think Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido, would be turning over in his grave by people who would solidify what he taught. Aikido itself is a mix of several arts such as fencing, Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu and more. "Life is growth. If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O Sensei.
Plz don't ever delete this vid bro!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻 There may be times when I might feel sad/severely depressed/suicidal & I plan on coming back 2 this video in hopes of feeling better after watching the video & reading the people's comments. This video zapped me like a bolt of lightning & awoke something within me (something I didn't even know was there) Ty brotha 🙏🏻💚💜
Ramsey all I wanna say is, you are genuinely one of my favorite martial arts youtubers and this is honestly because you are one of the few few who approaches these talks from a none biased perspective while crediting everything what they are good at but always being critical what they are bad at. which is something very few on here do, for they are so obsessed with the "shock value" with click bait titles "BOXING WILL GET U KILLED" and what not.
But not as a fluent spoken language, only as root words. More like archaic parts we use for new purposes in English. Sciene in general uses Latin BECAUSE it is dead. This way it can be a language base exclusive to science and thus prevent slang changes from ongoing common usage.. Ramsey gets into this 7:030ish. Can't even understand my own langauge anymore. So science uses Latin as it is and it doesn't change across generations....
I get your point (and don't study any traditional martial arts), but I also can't help but think when you're speaking about real fighting that MMA is about winning fights in a tightly constrained environment. MMA has weight classes, gloves, no weapons, and it's fairly safe to go to the ground-to be really good at fighting in that environment isn't the same as to be good at fighting, full stop. This isn't even about "on da streetz wher der is no rulz" but I don't believe that they train navy seals or army rangers in MMA, since their job is to actually kill people (granted, mostly with guns). The (American) police don't train in MMA because clinching when you have a gun on your belt is a bad idea, and why give up the advantage of a stick or a riot shield? Etc. I think that, in the end, there just isn't such a thing as being good at fighting, and there's only being good at fighting in a specific context, or range of contexts. I'd be more likely to bet on the kung fu guy who actually trains with real, sharp knives (and an EMT on standby; I'm thinking of a specific guy and not trying to generalize to all kung fu teachers) over the MMA guy who never trains with knives in a fight against a knife, even if kung fu may not be as overall effective in an unarmed fight.
I love your videos and how real you are, it makes me feel more comfortable at my gym. I travel all over and am not so good at sparring yet and always am at new places with people I don’t know. Having these videos helps me with the questions I would normally not know. Appreciate it my dude
Isn’t Muay Thai also a traditional style though? Latin would be an alive, thriving language if we just got a couple thousand people, made our own city, and started speaking it. Tma can be revived! Just look at Hema. The problem is, most tma schools haven’t even accepted that there is a problem.
HEMA is a historical revival, not a how to win a sword fighting method. Muay Thai is an old combat sport, not a traditional martial art. The sport has changed a lot over the years and continues to do so. Keeping up and passing down uniform traditions of Thai martial arts are not the priority of Muay Thai. Winning fights is. Look at the most traditional part of Muay Thai, the Wai Khru Ram Muay. (The ritual bowing, dancing, and prayers that precede a Muay Thai fight). No two fighters do it the same way though. When Thai fighters compete in China, they don’t do the whole song and dance beforehand.
Spot on. I use this language analogy all the time with my music students. I think language is such a deep and rich metaphor for learning in general because it's not only one of if not the first skills children develop, but it may be the world's first meta technology enabling the formation of all other tech.
I actually think Traditional martial arts are cool! But when they act like they are some great fighting system or they can defeat five people with weapons at the same time or no touch knock outs or any of the other silly stuff. Then they are just asking for it.
@@memysurname7521 I've been in the martial world for 34 years now. Just listen to these guys talk, and understand that the same "rules" you apply to a traditional martial artist, must also apply to a modern martial artist. Its the process of growth, man. The ego in the martial arts today, is unbelievable. Take, fir example, your response to my comment. You are SO SURE of yourself in this point of view. Ridiculous? Seriously? You already have a prejudice befire even starting the conversation.. you never even took the time to understand where I could be right, but also where I could be wrong. As I've said many times, you will always find masters agree more than disagree, and amateurs disagree more than agree.. take your time to watch and listen, and you will find startling similarities. Its a commonly known factor in psychology..
This was a good speech. Imma type some stuff real quick. Lots of stuff. Just skip over it if it’s too long. Couple things I’ve been reflecting on lately: 1. A friend of mine and I were reacting to one of sensei Seth’s recent videos with Wonderboy Thompson. We were really impressed with Wonderboy (my friend had actually been to one of his fights in person). We were trying to figure out how either of us would beat him. I went for an infighting approach to shut down his counterpunching. My friend being more mma minded immediately said “get him against the cage.” I was like “what cage?” My training (although I have competed in several amateur formats) did not take the cage into account. That may not exist in the real world environments TMAs were designed for. 2. My main TMA is Baguazhang - a Chinese wrestling system similar to Taijiquan only with more emphasis on footwork. While many of the strategies and techniques of bagua were initially hidden from me, once I learned to box and wrestle I’ve had almost no problem actually applying bagua in sparring and in self defense situations. I’m grateful to combat sports and combat sport coaches like Mr. Dewey for showing me how to apply what I’ve learned. The thing about bagua, though is that’s how it was supposed to be. We have no idea how the founder of the art actually fought. He would only accept students who had already mastered another style of kung fu. And then he taught each student based on their body types and previous experience.The only people keeping bagua ‘traditional’ are those who don’t apply it to other systems and don’t try to use it in actual situations. 3. My other TMA is Arnis - a weapon system from the Philippines. Once you get past our culture’s obsession with empty hand fighting, you’ll realize that Arnis is extremely capable and functional for actual fighting. It is BS proof because otherwise you will get stabbed! There isn’t a single thing in the Arnis that I practice that couldn’t be used against another human being. Stick, knife, sword, cane, empty hand, ground fighting. Would it work in a cage? Can I take a sword into the cage? 4. I realized recently that my TMA’s may be a lot more functional than many other people’s training and experience. Training in combat sports have only made it better. I’m confused as to why so much Bullshido has been allowed to spread. It kind of bothers me how there are so many ineffective TMAs around today. I don’t understand. I hope that yes, more people will train effective combat sport material but I also hope we will see more effective TMAs in the future. I’ve seen effective TMAs and they have their place.
I absolutely would love to hear you sing a Klingon Opera ! That piece of Information, that you´ve learned Klingon made my day as a Trekkie. I also love your Point of View on TMA, and i already feel the stiffness of tradition as I've started my journey of traditional Tae-kwon Do when i turned 40 this year. sure, i did not have started it because to become a great fighter but to dig deeper in movement, to evolve my knowledge of moving and balance and learn more about my Body and eventually get a glimpse of the History of that other culture too. It is a great hobby with big health benefits for me, just like i do my Yoga and Climbing. I´ve tried Capoeira, Tai Chi and ju-jutsu for some years for the same reason and the more i learn the more i love that stuff. By, adding, mixing and awareness i can still honor the tradition but also help shaping the evolution of it, that is just awesome. Because of that i feel like what ido, think, add, or change might matter someday for someone too, no matter if i teach it to my child or maybe to a student in some years. Language is fluid just as Movement and i love to apply that principle to Movement whenever i can. Thank you for your thoughts on this matter and sorry for my english I´m from Germany, i still have to learn and practice my skills a lot. LLAP 🖖
I respectfully disagree with the idea that TMA are a dead language, because the foundation of MMA is traditional martial arts...Muay Thai is a TMA, Jiu Jitsu is a TMA, the Karate and Tae Kwon Do kicks that we see in modern MMA fights are TM. I think the issue is that during the 70s,80s and early 90s mass media by way of Kung Fu movies and things like Power Rangers diluted the combative logistics of TMA so the perception was that it was ineffective because it became mystical. TMA like KyoKushin, Krave Maga, Tae Kwon Do, forms of Kung Fu such as Shuia Jiao and Sanda HAVE been proven effective.
Dead language doesn't mean it doesn't work. The goal of TMA is to preserve the ashes of the past while modern martial arts is to keep that fire from the past burning in future fighters. This has nothing to do with TMA effective or not.
@@RamseyDewey Im sorry but your assessment just doesn't make sense to me [respectfully] not when MMA stylist 15 years ago were saying things like side kicks and spin kicks wont work in the UFC only to be proven that...they can. The idea of Traditional Martial arts doesn't hold up when MMA stylist are using techniques from TMA and claiming they are outdated. And to be honest I'm a fan of Martial arts in general I think there is something to be learned from martial arts as a whole. Martial arts in my opinion is one of the highest forms of human expression, there is most certainly a combative element, but there is a philosophical element, spiritual elements etc. I think its narrow minded to claim that TMA is a dead language when languages exist for different reasons and for different purposes and I also think its narrow minded to not view MMA as TMA. I love your videos BTW and I say none of this as disrespect. Would I do Kata or Poomsae if I'm being robbed, no of course not, but that's not its purpose. I understand your point but I think there is a bit of nuance missing from the statement that TMA is a dead language.
@@jaketheasianguy3307 I think my point is being missed, I'm saying that MMA and TMA are one in the same so why call it a dead language. There are techniques that evolve with the times, most certainly but there are techniques within ''MMA'' that evolve or prove to be ineffective in certain situations. I most certainly agree that there are schools of combat that refuse to evolve for the sake of tradition...definitely not arguing that nor am I here to argue at all, I just think there is so much emphasis on discrediting what is perceived as TMA when to be technical any martial art system that is decades old with standardized training is TMA.
Basically the main difference between TMA and Modern MA is the way they train, their approach to training and conditioning. Techniques are more or less the same. The mindset and the reason why they train are also different
Ribeiro BJJ guy here....I dig how you are both intellectual and pragmatic, and as a result...a bad ass. Love your stuff, best of luck in your endeavors.
Being a TMA practicioner, I agree with you partly. When you talk about real conversations, TMA practicioners have their own fights and sparring with their own rulesets, they do communicate. It's just not as realistic and efficient as more modern systems. The reasons why people practice TMA and their focus are just different from modern MA practicioners. I wouldn't call them dead though 🤣
That analogy would hold true IF some traditional martial arts didn't still have secrets and knowledge that MMA is only still just discovering. I remember in 2005 MMA was saying the same things about spin kicks, side kicks, backside kicks, etc. *eye roll* Now they use them. MMA is still way behind and is still borrowing things from TMA. TMA is not the "dead language" just yet.
A good point well made...I’m currently training in Goju Ryu and I’ve recently begun to question kata bunkai applications that to me make a defence more complex but am ‘encouraged’ to continue with them despite my own doubts...
If you are learning something practical in a good environment, that's all that matters. I would also point out that Hapkido is a very recent hybrid style that I would kinda be loathe to call TMA. It teaches grappling and striking to some extent already, and if you mix that with other styles and full contact sparring, you likely have a pretty good base.
@@AveSicarius now he doesn’t include full contact sparring, he says you want that join Muay Thai, but the rolling he does in it from his BJJ training is 100% rolling like you see in BJJ. Like he teaches Muay Thai and BJJ to their fullest in their respective classes, but the Muay Thai bits in hapkido he teaches are bag combos, Thai pad combos, and light flow sparring. Which usually includes kick checking and such.
Mr Ramsey Dewey, I have been subscribed to your channel for a few months now. I always find it interesting to hear your opinion on things and I agree with a lot of what you say. I love that you are willing to learn traditional forms to find the original purpose of the sequences in them and to see if they can serve a new purpose to add to your arsenal. I find the comparison of martial arts to languages absolutely fascinating. Although saying learning traditional martial arts is like learning a dead language might be going a little bit too far. A foreign language, maybe. Quoting a Slipknot song, "Old does not mean dead, New does not mean best" (And I do know that a lot of traditional martial arts are not that old) . I personally feel that traditional martial arts and codified styles still has a place in the world of combat sports because everybody is different, what works for one person may not work for another. It also provides a good foundation and/or a different perspective in combat/communication. For example: a MMA fighter that comes from a boxing background and he or she relies on a lot on head punches so much that it comes a weakness in their game. In that case I would have him/her spar under knockdown karate rules at least once a week open their minds to other approaches to their stand up game and add more weapons to their arsenal. I hope that my insight is helpful or at least interesting in someway. God Bless.
I am a martial artist and a linguist and mathematician... This is a very beautiful text. I studied in Heidelberg, Germany. And I spend 2 years in Shanghai. The Motto above the "new university" building there is "dem lebendigen Geist" which means "to the living spirit" or "the alive mind" and is a reminder against repetition without purpose in teaching and learning. Love you content. If I am back in Shanghai, I'll come by to sparr and if you have time, I'll take you out to dinner.
Let's extend your metaphor: MMA is a pidgin language, made up of words from other, complete languages, useful in a few limited contexts. A traditional martial art is complete language, useful in every context, but only within it's culture. Once again, I find one mocking the other as "inferior" as missing the point. Each speaks to a different goal or need. And MMA may be the sport most similar to a fight, but it's still a sport. There is communication. A fight is a violent refusal to listen, truly chaotic and uncontrolled. Then there are the various motivations for assault. If you're justifying mocking a martial art, what is your art FOR? Check in with your motivation for proficiency with violence, then go with what feels right for you. I'm starting to feel about these martial arts evangelists and purists the same way as I do about missionaries and evangelist preachers: who tf are you to get between me and my propensity for/engagement with combat? Maybe I don't train for the octagon. Maybe I train because gang violence in my neighborhood has escalated to terrifying levels, BJJ got some disarms I haven't seen? Maybe I train because my fiancee is getting threats from an ex and his friends, does your gym train for group attacks? What's best is what suits your needs and proclivities, no one thing will ever be The Way. Anyone telling you different is selling something.
The problem is that the ultimate judge of a martial art's utility is in its ability to fight with competent resisting opposition, regardless of their background. MMA practices about as close to street level as sparring and competition can get without extra risk, but TMA tends to have, to put it mildly, less than adequate sparring. It's a result of overfocusing on tradition over practicality. Tradition can be nice, but if you want to pressure test, tradition is usually more hindrance than help. This gets worse in the highest pressure test of all, actual fighting. granted, a good number of those whom you'd fight are dipshits that are liable to do as much damage to themselves as to you, but that doesn't help much if your traditions didn't include sparring with someone who wouldn't just sit there while you do your weird combo.
@@ember3579 I hear this sort of response a lot. I guess there just must be more bullshit schools than I've imagined. I took traditional karate and tae kwon do in a smallish town. I saw plenty of pressure testing and blue or brown belts from ANY school were best avoided, as they liked to go out and test themselves (navy town). One thing I never see in MMA is another guy kicking you in the back while you're trying to choke his buddy. TMA runs those scenarios often. And you fail to speak to my point about communication: it's not all about trade or violence. A black belt in a TMA can talk nuance and application in their "language" to a degree that I feel MMA lacks. If you believe that the sole purpose of martial arts is to kick ass, then you're probably right where you belong.
@@memysurname7521 sure, and you'll always fight one at a time and they'll all be within three pounds of your weight. My premise is that shitting on someone's art is a dick move, how was that wrong?
One can take the metaphor even further I think. Sometimes it is like speaking a language in the wrong place - like speaking Greek in China and await to be understood. As a Taiji practitioner, I have always wondered about many seemingly ineffectual movements in the forms but then I realised as a historian that many people are going about this all wrong. One must research the nature of violence during the period when a martial art was conceived in order to understand what is going on. As far as we know Taijiquan originates in the 15-16th century Henan, China and it was created for military training - fighting in battle or for the protection of merchant caravans crossing the country. So the main aspects of a Taiji conversation are how can I survive as a weaponless person in the middle of a battle fought mainly with swords and spears and how to use a weapon. Does anyone train with this in mind today? Nobody. So trying to speak Taiji in an MMA fight or in any ring in this era is like talking Greek to a Chinese audience. Won´t work.
You want a word comparison. MMA is computer code, TMA is spoken/written words. Both use letters and symbols, but the results are totally different.... on purpose. They use the same characters but for entirely different reasons & outcomes What’s the obsession with comparing TMA & MMA. You don’t see programmers look at poets & say “that won’t code” That’s because the reason for it being isn’t the same Poets aren’t trying to make an app run & programmers aren’t trying to make a sonnet Sorry but the low key condescension is getting tiresome
I really appreciate your definition of "traditional" martial arts as being (paraphrasing) rigidly sticking to the same movements that have been passed down teacher to teacher regardless of effectiveness as opposed to defining "traditional" as being karate, kungfu etc. as a whole.
Your latin comparison is perfect. A few years ago I studied white crane style. I asked the instructor "Why we can't block like that" his answer: "because in white crane we block like that". Now I practice bjj and when I ask a question my instructor has always a pragmatic answer. I don't regret my bjj choice.
Nice to see people out there having similar interests. I m currently a student and a hobby linguist (mainly indo germanium and comparative study) and also life long MA and combat sports practitioner. I also came to the same conclusion as you. The thing most people say if they say they don't wanna learn Latin is that they don't have time learning a dead language. The same goes for TMA when you are seeing it through a combat/practicality lense. I find TMA fascinating and have the time to find out and test the applications but old timmy over there maybe not bc maybe he has a 50 hour week and wants sth that works fast
It's only a metaphor. They aren't perfect and have exceptions. Also all of those arts have very active international competitions and pressure testing.
Just like people use Latin in English all the time. Like the words “people” (from the Latin “populus”) and “use” (from the Latin “usus”). And neither of those concepts the same thing as speaking Latin or doing karate.
@@hypnoticskull6342 Traditional martial arts in the traditional sense are not used in MMA. By being adapted they distance themselves from being "traditional", although they still keep those roots.
Whenever you say that you began this channel to become a better at communicating is inspiring. I just listen to you and it feels like you just "get it".
Kinda. Not really. Traditional martial arts are nice to cross train in. But I know dudes who compete in MMA and don't cross train in a single traditional style. And they win cage fights. Just practicing the sport of MMA.
@@darylfields Some people also think a chance of finding bacteria on Mars is worth spending hundreds of billions of dollars on, while children on our planet starve to death. People are just dumb like that.
This help re enlighten me again as I move forward in growth as a person and martial artist. I thank God for you man 🙏🏿 and others on the same journey as well 🙏🏿
What wasn’t noted is so-named TMA are in fact absolutely modern and only 2 or 3 generations old, while MMA, Grappling/Wrestling, Boxing and full-contact arts much more resembles the arts of antiquity. The modern “Do” and sports schools of the arts were not designed to be about fighting, but about exercising, health and self-improvement. Especially in the West, these arts were sold as fighting/tough guy activities, when in fact the fighting was secondary.
For me, learning TMA initially was like the book Jonathan Livingston Seagull in which the physical led to the mental which led to the spiritual. Combat sports does not have this voyage, Of course, I've evolved, to the best of my ability, my skill set over the years, but I am grateful for the foundation that TMA gave me.
Studying history is important; it gives you a glance at past peoples, but for understanding them, it's like trying to gauge someone's soul from a portrait.
hey so did you know that sanda is both military martial art and kickboxing style thats why i have chosen sanda,kyokushin karate,taekwondo itf muay thai and krav maga
@@walterevans2118 yeah sanda is good better and more effective than shaolin kung fu,wing chun,jkd in self defence,street fighting and works in combat sport mma
No style is superior to one another, it's all about the practitioner. Every style that teach you to make a violence contact upon another human being would work as long as the person already knows how to fight instead of dancing around doing forms all day, even wing chun, taichi, aikido.... Also, doing a bunch of different styles at the same time won't work well in MMA because you can't synchronize them. Focus on 1 solid foundation and then add tiny bit of other styles into your own, that works better
JKD would be more functional for street defense I think. Interesting point above about in MMA having One thing as a foundational fundament & other styles as supplements ....Interesting which ones would serve best as foundations in a sport environment.
Something Ramsey didn't say but I think it is crucially important is that language isn't just a communication tool, after all, you also organize your own thoughts through language. Ported over to martial arts (or jazz improv, right?) it means that when you're training your own training vocabulary is organized by the "language" you're using. If you're proficient in multiple languages, then your ideas can transcend just one single language. This ability to "bridge" across different languages is great tool for lateral thinking and problem solving in general, since you are not limited to a single perspective. The benefits this has when you're improvising (fighting, right?) are pretty clear.
Another problem with Traditional Martial Arts could be summed up by a something that an old master of mine told me, "People in one style of traditional martial arts learn how to fight and defend against others in that style."
Damn I even took the time to read that tremendously written description. A really well informed opinion and a very strong simile to bring your opinion to life.
I understand how they got so committed to these traditions so long ago. It's because people were scared techniques would be lost so they created the forms. But these traditions are now holding them back really bad. TMA needs to be reformed and it's gonna take several generations to get it right. I love Star Trek. The original, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager were excellent!!!
This is like a mini-doc, it is very good beyond other things done here. I think it can be more than just what the thumbnail implies. It should be in shows for short form non-fiction I think.
I spent a summer at BYU in an advanced language class for Spanish . The Army sent me there. It was very interesting, and very difficult . Most of the rest of the class were PHD's , I was a soldier.
Eh. To a degree you’re absolutely, 100% spot on; but only in the field of capacity in a fight. Yes, modern MMA is superior in terms of literally everything in a fight, but that stone block had to go through a lot of carving to become the statue it is today. TMA built MMA, and MMA outran it, but I don’t believe the sentiment that TMA has been made obsolete, because competency in real fights is only one of the aspects of martial arts. Many traditional styles build up discipline, confidence, and a plethora of other things that MMA does, but also different things, like meditation, culture, and other things that might not be immediately affective in a fight. To put this in other words, a mediocre practitioner of boxing will kick the butt of most higher-learned Kung Fu martial artists, but that doesn’t make Kung Fu, or any other Traditional style, useless. To stay true to the king fu example, there’s relaxation in meditation that you’ll never find in boxing, there’s discipline in many places that teach Kung Fu that might beat the typical practices of Boxing gyms. Most of the greatest artists of all time in fighting come from a Traditional martial arts setting. TMA is also in many cases a gateway for people breaking into fighting, and can lay the foundations for any individual who might go on to MMA. Another argument for the relevance of TMA is the culture and tradition that it contains. Yes, it makes the different styles stubborn against change, but it’s one of the only experiences that lets us connect with people that were alive thousands of years ago. It lets us keep different cultures and traditions alive while still maintaining the traits I brought up earlier- building physical and mental discipline and several other things that will help anyone with a future in MMA or even just life. Yes, in combat, MMA will always beat any TMA style before you can say Bazinga, but there are many reasons that TMA will always be relevant, most of which I don’t know off of the top of my head and didn’t explore in this comment. It’s worth noting that I have a personal background in Taekwondo and a fondness of traditional arts, so I might be a bit biased in the conversation of TMA and MMA, but I also have a very high respect for MMA. I think the whole debate on this is silly, as TMA and MMA both present things that the other can not even possibly bring out. Both will survive for a very, very long time, and neither will ever become obsolete, and most of all, both should be respected with sincerity and high regard.
I really appreciate this analogy because I’ve always viewed all martial arts as a linguistic and cultural study as well as an athletic pursuit. When I took karate and judo we were required to learn Japanese terminology and phrases to progress.
Interesting video! Funnily enough, I have a friend who is deeply passionate about learning Latin and studying classics. I don't know much about studying language, but I think in a lot of ways my friend isn't learning how to communicate with the living but with the dead. That's not me knocking him; that's by the design. Learning the language gave him an insight into his intellectual heritage that is in some ways foreign to those of us without that ability. I think there is something analogous in martial arts too. Reading Dave Lowry's writings have been fascinating. I don't know if the guy can fight whatsoever (though he did study Judo for some time, so I would imagine that he's more capable than the average person), but his experiences with Kenjutsu are fascinating. Here, too, we see a person who isn't so much trying to speak with the living as much as the dead. Studying traditional Japanese martial arts has given him an insight into Japanese culture that he wouldn't have gotten otherwise. I suspect when most people seek martial arts, they're looking for something best provided by modern combat sports. Most people train in martial arts because they want (or at least think they want) to be more effective at combat. I do, however, think that TMA does provide something, however, that combat sports does not: continuity with the past. For people for whom that is important, TMA might be the better way to go. TMA embodies tradition, or at least tries to, in a way that that few other touchstones with history can provide. So I suppose, as you've said many times, the value one receives through TMA ultimately depends on why a person is looking to learn it.
This was very beautiful Ramsey. When I was a teenager I had a karate teacher that wasn't very good by any modern metrics, he enjoyed drinking a bit too much and got into fights with random dudes on occasion. One day he showed up to class with a bloody nose and said something to the effect of 'yall gotta remember that what I teach you here works against people that also learned what I teach here. Outside, you gotta improvise'. That visionary did the whole 'in da streets' thing 20 years ago. Also got his ass kicked by a boxer that actually learned to punch people in the face.
Took karate since I was a kid. Very fortunate to have a Japanese master that understands that there's the tradition to things and the "combat/street/self defence" to things. Kata stayed to tradition while our kumite was free to evolve a little while using the tradition as the guide. Now I don't think I'll win a belt for the UFC but it's a great balance to keep the tradition and spiritual journey while being more than capable to defend myself.
Man! It's like if you had taken a look at my PhD! My academic studies are based on philology, I'm a philologist (English philology), but more specifically it is focused on the study of traditional Japanese martial culture and its echoes in the Western cultures. And an important part of this PhD is language! I compare traditional martial arts and modern martial arts with a language! You can speak perfectly a modern language, and with no need of delving into its roots... But understanding the roots, you would be able to understand why you use that language and how it evolved from the root! This is, maybe due to the awesome coincidence in thought, my favourite video of your channel! 🙇🏻♂️🙇🏻♂️🙇🏻♂️ Congrats for the video coach!
The problem with traditional martial arts is that we put it in a pedestal while not even really having any idea gow ancient people applied them long time ago. I am 100 percent certain that an ancient fighter would kick ass today esp if he had experience in warfare
I work at call-center as an English support agent. I know a bit of Spanish. Enough to chat with person live and have basic conversation with collegaues, but not enough to speak with Latin America. And I tell you this. It is easy to speak with person who is fluent. New Zealander will never forget that in language that is not inflicted and has no conjugations, word order and presence of certain words matters A LOT. Even if your English is bad (and we have some agents whose English was never developed beyond "had good marks at school"), that guy alone can carry a meaningful conversation. Same goes with Spanish. I easily read what an intellegent person wrote to me and that person understands me in return (even though my level of Spanish, as described by Ecuadorean is "has enough words in right order"). But then we have clients who are not smart. They use wrong words. They mess-up grammar. Their pronunciation is awful. They can't even say certain words or substitute sounds for their local equivalents. Sometimes Russians write to us in bad English and I actually have to flex my native speaking to translate what is said back to Russian in a way that makes sense (including keeping in mind what words are different in English, but same in Russian) and reconstruct grammar that was lost. Slavic languages have very complex grammar, so you can have a relatively meaningful sentence that has nothing but infinitive verbs. In fighting it is the same. It is easy to learn a couple of moves and go to boxing match. You need far bigger vocabulary and fluency to fight a person who doesn't know what the hell they are doing. By the way, yes. A lot of moves in forms are designed to fight an unskilled person. After all, even now it is extremely rare for "real" fighting to occur between skilled martial artist. There simply not that many of us for that to be the case. And there are not that many things martial artists are willing to fight for. It is not that old forms have nothing against a trained fighter, but it is similar to what my Muay Thai coach said: -- Fighting starts you do this. -- And if it doesn't work? -- That's what the rest of Muay Thai is for
Great video and deep thoughts. You have used this "martial arts is a conversation" theme in subsequent videos and I agree 100%. The language comaprision is rich with good analogies. Did you know that when people learn to sign in another language they lose their accent? It remains when they have a conversation, but they can sign without it. I will contrast with a reflection. You statement "Can't understand my own language in my own country..." is the reason we need TMA. It is the reason we attempt to preserve without change the forms and rituals. It is why science uses Latin to make new terms and names, as a dead language it no longer changes. Every person is not a teacher nor fighter nor master, yet it is every one of us s a school that try to carry this body of knowledge across the decades. Who am I to make up something new? Is it fair and honest to experiement on new students? Will rejecting TMA and inventing sometining new really work ten years from now? or will we discover the bad habit flaws or cummulative injrury cycles ourselves in our students the hard way? Can a combat sport school continue to train fighters who arrive at a functional lethal fighter level over and over on it's own? over decades? Won't they have to stop killing and maiming and injuring eachother over time and the teachers finally age into a set of safe methods? Now we have a tradition! Teacher barking at us not to do it that way but they do not tell us why. As a teacher, I can tell you we grow frustrated with students inventing new things to add to our lessons. We grow impatient with young men telling us they want to figure it out themselves, while still claiming the brand we teach. Then they complain about the brand? The traditional approach has reasons related to duplication of instruction over decades. Combat Sports have this now too, their own TMA core. Many TMA spar hard and might have fight contests, they often just do not require all members to do that so I am not willing to say TMA does not have contact sparring. We use archaiac and oudated methods so that all people have a shared history, and I agree that students do not need it. They just need good material to practice in an alive way. The teachers benifit from the reflections on dead languages though, and they serve as a baseline measurement to see if the martial art is drifting away from it's roots. In the famous novel "Ishmael" by Quinn the question was asked: Without Man, can the gorilla survive? But the back of the sign read: With the wild gorilla, can Humankind survive? It is a snake eating it's tail paradox... In your great anaolgy you have forgotten one last thing! There are 3 catagories of language: Archaiac (Old English), Modern (American or British Standard English) and Emerging (texting shorthand, memes, or African American Standard English), a simplified way to organize language use. As new versions of English get standardized and old versions fade away we must classify the new and very small changes as they become their own language. MMA was an emerging langauge in Martial Arts prior to UFC. Now it is the dominant martial art language. But what about grammer? This MMA slang language wears cups and gloves and mouth guards....it schedules fights for specific times inside squares and does allow strikes to the groin or back of the head....As a new standard language, it has bad grammer. This is like using a double negative in English, or saying "ain't ain't a real word...." and many other things we take as normal but which the standard American English has not accepted yet. Will English ever? African American Standard English for example is a real thing, fighting for it's place in academics, yet unaccepted by most people as just "bad grammer." But it is the fastest growing new languag eon Earth, copied in more countries and inventing new words more than any other. You feeling me dog? We speak how our parents spoke, we fight the way our sifu taught us to fight....but only a few learn to sing.
Language flows unstoppably like immeasurable Life. A novel technique against something unpredictable, if it is repeated systematically, over time it integrates into your experience and becomes tradition, for you and for those around you, thus creating new words, new combat strategies. Ancestral knowledge is perfected in acts and deeds. But the time will also come when the discourse on everything we do now will also be a dead language, it will be lost to the supremacy of new names, practices, rituals, adapted for people, teachers and new times. Some will make the network more intricate, others will try to simplify the network. There may be great tricks that get lost along the way, others can be reinvented. This is continuous receiving and continuous giving. The movements and practices that manage to spread and last will be true treasures, of course not so much to keep them as to show them off in everyday life. Wisdom, compassion and grace for you brothers.
I remember a HEMA instructor said something along the lines of, "I appreciate that you're trying to personally improve as a swordsman, but this is a historical revival first and your personal journey second. If you find a better technique then we'll compare it to the manuscripts and see how they compare in a historical sense, but this *is* a revival *first.* "
Yep.
This is why Mixed Weapons Martial Arts / Freefencing is becoming a thing.
There are a lot of people people who want an MMA competition format but for weapons. Katana vs. Longsword, Kali Stick vs. European Singlestick, Bowie Knife vs. Kukri, etc etc. etc. With full grappling and striking capacity.
Traditional Weapon Based Martial Arts are already a dead language.
HEMA came out of nowhere and started live, full contact, steel fencing with actual properly made swords. Which is awesome.
But they also put accuracy to historical manuscripts above actual Fighting ability. Which just kills it. They caught lightning in a bottle... and don't know what to do with it. :(
Imagine Filipino Martial Arts, but with the top level gear HEMA uses. Or even Kenjutsu/Kendo breaking from tradition and steel sparring again. That would be incredible.
I kinda feel like its cool, and all we have treatises like Fiores to see what people were doing back in the day, but i also see how its like trying to figure out dead language. All that context in culture, and everything that has changed its like looking through a window to alien world for us. I still wish to start HEMA for my history enthusiasm, but if i would want to actually learn how to fight in useful manner in modern world i would pick mma club every day of the week.
@@hailhydreigon2700 at this point, HEMA community is splitting itself again. One side tried to preserve history above fighting, which is not a wrong thing, and one side trying to evolve the art through contact with other nation arts (like how the Chinese are doing right now, using HEMA to revive and evolve their own ancient weapon arts). The weapon based martial art in the future will be just like hand 2 hand martial art now days
The big difference between HEMA and a lot of TMA is if something works, you will most definitely find it in one or more texts that are considered HEMA sources. And similarly you will rarely find anything that just plain doesn't.
Also, it pays to remember there is no centralized ideology behind all of HEMA; there are people who seek to recreate certain historical combat styles as accurately as they can, people who want to fight the best they can based on all available material (I am in this group, same as the club I attend), and there are people who only want to compete and don't care about whether they look authentic doing so as long as they win.
Tradition is not to preserve the ashes... but to keep the flame lit! 🔥
My man JESSEEE💯🥋Greatest karate guy I know ❤️
Lol I always say it is passing on the fire not worshipping the ashes.
If only every martial artist knew this!
That's Rene Guenon founder of the traditionalist school, pretty based
Keeping the flame lit requires to change the fuel or add to it. Not by reusing the already used fuel constantly.
Every martial art has it's own language and it's own dialects. Wrestling has Greco-Roman and shute. Jiujitsu has BJJ and judo. Taekwondo has WTF, ITF, and ATA. Karate has shotokan, goju, and kenpo. Kickboxing has, Muay Thai, lethwei, and K1. Kung Fu has a bajillion versions. I love the analogy, and it's a great way of saying that if you focus on one aspect you will get really good at that conversation to the detriment of all others. If you practice everything to a passing amount you can get by but will never truly succeed. I still love the line "Now get out there and train," because it doesn't matter what you train, just so long as you train something. Just, please, don't put the blinders on when you do so.
nicely said. no need to throw more complications on something already so complicated, lol! personaly, i think the analogy is way off, but a nice try. everyone has a straight punch, everyone has a cross, everyone has a hook.. know what i mean?
I don't think is fair to say that Muay Thai is a dialect of Kick Boxing. And the Gracies learned western wrestling, the original Gracie brothers learned CACC and Graeco from Dudu, and Rolls learned Folk Wrestling from Bob Anderson.
I understand what you tried to say, but Muay Thai and Lethwei are not the dialects of Kickboxing.
Muay Thai and Lethwei are centuries older than Kickboxing.
"Don't seek to follow the footstep of the wise ; seek what they sought"
The first part is literally almost every TMA styles are doing right now while modern mixed martial art is doing the 2nd part.
In all fairness, MMA is ultimately for entertainment. More comparable to gladiators, which is pretty niche. The military, law enforcement, and organized crime are more akin to seeking what most martial artists of old sought.
@@kevingray4980 Do you really think a gladiator wouldn't wipe the floor with you or most people for that matter?
Agree 100%. One is traditional in methodology. The other is traditional in spirit.
@@LgLegion I'm not saying they aren't skilled fighters. but obviously against someone with modern weaponry and tactics, gladiators would lose horribly. If you transported Samurai from the past into modern times, they wouldn't be swinging swords. They'd be learning how to fly F-35s.
There was a time when TMA did just that.
This is seriously one of the most beautiful metaphors I've ever heard.
Another good reason to learn Latin is that there is a wealth of valuable wisdom written in Latin and you always lose something in translation. You can get translations of Saint Augustine's Confessions or Saint Thomas's Summa Theologica, but it's not the same.
Like “Amantes sunt amentes”, meaning “lovers are lunatics”. Notice how the two words are separated by only one letter in Latin.
"Subtitles don't do the anime justice" kinda vibe, icic
It's not that there aren't good reasons to learn Latin, it's where your priorities lie. If you aren't fluent in English then >99% of people would be better served to learn English before Latin. If you are fluent in English, >99% of people would be better served to learn Spanish / Mandarin / Russian / Japanese / Arabic before Latin. For >99% of people, there will never come a good time to learn Latin, that's the point of it being a "dead language".
It is very very true.
I agree with this and with the video.
@@mpanini5694 best analogy ever 🤣
As a linguist this was wonderful to listen to, I had no idea you had that background! You could also say TMA schools are like language prescriptivists placing artificial and archaic rules over what's the "correct" way to speak versus recognizing that the rules that actually exist are whatever leads to effective communication
I'm sure those who created those traditional martial arts would want us to re-engineer their system for fighting to fit our day and age.
Already done
A lot of them did, yes, and explicitly so.
See, for example, Funakoshi's book, in which he explicitly states that Karate should keep evolving, but then you have whatever karate is now and I just look away in confusion.
THIS..... right here
@@cahallo5964 that's not because karate "evolved" that's because dipshts that didn't and still don't know anything are teaching martial arts and they shouldn't be teaching at all because they're terrible fighters themselves. Never trust an instructor who can't even beat you or let alone anyone else in the class.
Literally had this conversation with my TKD master the other day. How growth and adapting the art to the times matters more. That is what the original masters would want. How any art even outside the martial arts can hope to survive with the passage of time is to evolve. To think anything else isn't realistic.
If I ever threw a kick in a street fight, it's to the leg firing in the straightest simplest way. Not a tornado kick to the head. The shortest path between two points is a straight line.
To study a martial art is to teach to you a way of controlling your body. To fight.. is to understand how to realistically apply. That is found in actual sparring and fighting and being willing to be open to interpretation in your art. No style is perfect. No one skill set is enough.
Ramsey Dewey is the type of guy to mix martial arts and linguistics. How can you not love this channel - so enlightening, entertaining, and insightful. I’ve noted many parallels between languages and martial arts, and I really like the angle you took with your own comparison and analogy of the two. Great content Ramsey, always appreciate your input 🙌
I literally just found him in my recommendations a day or two ago, and he's really impressed me with the few videos I've had a chance to watch. Quite the warrior-philosopher.
Yeah, I think he's one of the best TH-camrs. There are unfortunately not as many people with his level of insight out there.
Nah Ramsey is a clown and bald dipshit🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭🤭
Iirc there was a story of two people who met at a comicon type event. They spoke separate languages except for Klingon so they were able to communicate with that
Haha, i dont know why, but that kind of warms my heart.
I remember meeting the woman from this story online. I think one of them was Polish? Which if you're familiar with, shares very little with those of us who speaking latin and germanic root languages.
They fell in love, got married. Learned more conventional languages over time together.
This was a plot point in Daddy Daycare.
@@nickcarroll8565 thats hilarious, I’ve never seen it
lol!! that is awesome!
I love this comparison between martial arts and languages. I love linguistic studies and after hearing your explanation, it makes so much sense and now I wonder why I never thought of it in the first place. What a fascinating and interesting video coach
Its silly to me when people criticize traditional martial arts for kids. It teaches body coordination.
I'm a bjj guy, but my kids are gonna start in tae Kwon do or karate so they can learn to use their little limbs
It's just more weapons in their arsenal. Tkd techniques are everywhere in mma. Sticking to one style no matter what, is the only thing that doesn't work any more. BJJ has it's pratfalls, as well, like trying to pull guard on concrete, or facing multiple attackers. Yeah, you got the guy in an armbar, but his friend stomped on your face. Even aikido, for all its flaws, can be useful in some situations. My kids will also start with tkd or karate, for the reasons you said, it's a great starting point for little kids.
@@idontwantahandlewtf id also add that TKD and Karate instructors are used to teaching kids. Teaching little guys vs teens vs adults is very different.
@@idontwantahandlewtf correct, but they are NOT styles. If you please, read my long comment above. Just for the record, you do not face multiple attackers with wrestling whatever type of wrestling it is; and TKD are only incidentally in MMA just like ballet has a lot of workleg. But again, sorry to keep you, if you have a minute to waist, I have explained above.
@@andreainzaghi7373 All martial arts are "incidental" in MMA.
i feel ya there. people tend to overlook some of the other things TMA tends to teach people. without TMA, I probably would be a bit more cocky and have less self control.
using gun is like using a dictionary and thesaurus.
Facts 🤣🤣🤣
“A gun is like a parachute. If you need one and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.”
Ed Parker believed strongly in having respect for tradition, but not letting it bind you, and that a martial art should continually evolve. I’m happy to have studied American Kenpo before moving on to MMA.
Guns are retarded.. completely unnecessary in modern times. In order to be effective you’d have to have very far warming that something was gonna happen. Or keep it loaded at all times. Then your aim better be insane like James Bond level and you better not make a mistake because the consequences are irreversible. Keep a gun at your house to protect your family? Your kid might get in there and accidentally hurt himself or someone else.
Learn to fight or run fast, if you’re worried for your safety, better for the world. And even then you can usually use your brain or words to avoid or keep safe.
@@breadman5048 Go watch Active Self Protection, you might learn something.
"TMA is a dead language" - that's a great analogy! Never thought of it that way.
Here we go again... No matter how many times it gets pointed out to you that Boxing, Judo, Muay Thai, Wrestling, even Kickboxing are traditional arts as well, and yet have been shown to work time and again for hundreds, and in some cases, thousands of years, you keep pushing this "TMA are bad/useless" narrative, and now Ramsey's doing it too. The worst thing is that even that Krav Maga guest you had on (my bad for not remembering the name) exempted Judo and Muay Thai, and you even agreed and now you're doing it again. It's truly beyond me why, unless it's to pander to the crowd. So yeah mate, it stands to reason that you'd like this analogy, because you do it all the time too, unfortunately.
Agree with Alan. Primarily Ramsey conflates traditional martial arts with dogmatic adherence and then acts as if that definition is the correct way to look at it. Funny enough, this mentality does not help move the “language” forward, it holds it back. Such a shame to see. All that said, I still like RD I just think he’s way off on this point.
@@arap8217 all fighting styles you talked about are relative modern. English boxing, Olympyc Wrestling etc.
@@JIUJITSUMAN22
Lol.
Wrestling and boxing goes back way longer than the so-called traditional martial arts
@@ellefsensbarmyarmy8491 i'am talked about english boxing and olimpic wrestling.
As a black belt in karate and jujutsu i see all the techniques shown in this video as something i have practised a lot.
However, i would like to add that it is the lack of "realistic fight training" that is the difference between mma and other martial arts.
In mma, they fight FOR REAL, and i am not talking about kumite or randori, which is "real" but has their own rules applied to it.
Sure, we can also say that mma has its own rules as well since its a sport but the realism of real impact punches and kicks and takedowns etc
makes the practitioner more ready for a real life situation.
I think its rather the method of HOW you train your techniques that matters and how often you apply them in a more realistic combat system.
That was my 2 cents :)
Keep the great content going!
Yup use what works, discard what doesn't, add what is your own. Means be honest about your art, evolve and tailor it to whats best for each specific individual. Bruce Lee was very correct
As a linguist and a martial arts student, I really enjoyed this video!
One of my boxing coaches was the head of Canada's Olympic boxing program. He was teaching us to be coaches and one of his lessons was understand why your teaching something so that you can explain to your students the purpose of the technique. I often ended a lesson in some combination or just a simple one punch lesson with 'why do we do this?' and then proceed to explain the point of it. We do this because that's the way it's always been done does not hold a lot of water.
I could hear this a 100 times, it's so beautifully well put. You also have a great narrator voice so I find it very entrancing lol.
The shift to conceptual development over purely physical execution unleashes the potential of the old techniques while simultaneously allowing for “newer” or “modern” techniques of movement to come to fruition. Great video!
If you had the honor of tasting Jiro sushi (or any high-end sushi), you will understand the value of preserving the tradition. In mastering the tradition. Lex Fridman had a fascinating conversation with Tyler Cowen on this. However, preserving the history and tradition is often in tension with adapting to the ever changing landscape of the modern society. As a casual observer, I appreciate both MMA and TMA. In my own life, I just do rock climbing.
Lex and Tyler are both fascinating individuals.
to be puntcual, there is MMA in taditional martial arts, and there is TMA in modern soldier training. It is just, one is for weapon , say TMA, the other is for bare knuckle self defence or combat sport. SOrry I hope I do not sound agitated and rude.
one example. KARATE IS NOT BARE HAND, KARATE IS ONLY FOR TOOLS USED AS WEAPONS AND LIGHT WEAPONS. Karate has been adapted to bare hand fight, this is why the confusion has risen.
THE NAME ITSELF KARA-TE was distorted as karate become the official Japanese sport: it comes from the chinese ASIAN-HAND or CHINESE HAND and it was distorted into a similar sounding word BARE HAND to make people forget it was originally for WEAPONS and EQUIVALENTO OF KUNG FU.
Excellent content here! It reminded of the stories that my Tai Ji instructor had shared in the classes. Shortly after the White Policy of Australia was banished, he came to study in Australia. The environment back then had him learning the Southern Praying Mantis to help him better manage the encounters "on the streets". As he has a relentless pursuit to learn and improve in his martial arts, he attended a Yang Tai Ji seminar with the goal to speak with the instructor and to be his student. He said that in the short demo, he was thrown to he ground by someone that is 20+ years senior to him. There began his life journey of learning and sharing the art of Yang Tai Ji.
I enjoyed his Tai Ji classes as he has sparring sessions and he would also integrate the striking components from Praying Mantis into the classes too.
There are Latin speaking communities where you can have full conversations in Latin. They have incorporated new words for modern day techonology.
It's so sad to think that many martisl arts are more dead than Latin
You touched the most sensitive point in Traditional Martial Arts: bigotry of traditionalism!
A fighting system refusing to incorporate and to adapt (for) a more efficient technique deserves to die. Simply because it fails in its own meaning: allowing you to win the fight ... and survive.
The real mastery of Martial Artists is to adapt. All the Martial Arts, traditional or not, have this basic principle: adapt to your opponent. Remember Bruce Lee: "Be water, my friend!"
This video is beautiful!
In my HEMA interpretive work I came across a number of conclusions which are in line and coherent with what you say!
The old fighting method is an old language, and the old language was based on the training method of the period, training method was (as it is now) bound the the degrees of freedom of ancient training equipment... The chain of connections keeps going, but the ending result is simply “another language” different sometimes from the one we speak now in the modern training environment, equal in others!
This is how Im feeling right now. im training with a guy who trained Kyokushin with Mastatsu Oyama and hes a massive wealth of knowledge. The issue is, its become obvious to me that his focus is on preserving the tradition with a large focus on kata and weapons training as opposed to learning to really defend physical confrontations and seeking what they thought. Im hoping I can take what I learned there and try to apply it in a more direct fashion to better forms of training I can find at other gyms.
This video also made me realize how much I really want to become multilingual
Why do you make such beautiful content? Really like this.
So much wisdom in a video!
Personally, I think what happens is a generalised dishonesty and egotism between teachers-students and also teachers-themselves in the traditional martial arts.
I trained Bujinkan Ninjutsu for a while, but I was lucky and had an honest teacher: he said to us in our very first class that the point of Ninjutsu was to play with the techniques, and that most of them were used in battle in the past but are no longer suitable for our reality. This posture requires courage, both to admit to your students that your martial art won't work in a real world fight, and (perhaps most importantly) to admit to yourself what is the reality of what you're teaching.
I really enjoyed those classes anyway, and I believe these traditions should still be preserved and teached - but respecting this kind of honesty I mentioned.
Edit: I too study linguistics as a hobby, including dead languages like Sumerian and Old Norse. Yeah, it's pretty useless knowledge nowadays, but it's fun to learn! So, why not?
My problem with this video is that the comparison doesn't work. Latin is dead because it was changed and switched with other languages to create new languages and the original users died out / began to use new languages until its now something to be learned from old writings most Latin students don't even speak Latin where as traditional martial arts are still widely practiced from lineages passed down in person - there are reconstructions and they more fit that analogy but they aren't the majority of traditional arts
I also have a problem with that definition of traditional arts because it's not the majority of traditional arts - ones like aikido perhaps but so many of the most popular traditional arts were based in adding and evolving, so many more based in learning concepts and applying them to any situation the difference to training say bjj is what kata? The Japanese language? Yes there are obviously schools that have these issues but that is not the art the majority of times and its why I've never liked that definition and the issue that they rufuse to add what would be better techniques, can we don't say the same of boxing not allowing backfists and parrys, of American kick boxing not allowing elbows and knees, of mauy Thai not allowing judo throws of bjj not allowing slams etc
And lastly my issue is even if that were the definition of traditional martial arts then what of the arts that aren't like that but are not combat sports. What of the fillipino arts that use their drills in any style what of the wing chun systems that use their chi sao to adapt to grappling and clinching what of the Japanese jujitsu systems that still practice full contact the same as judo the fusen ryu that rolls like bjj what of all these arts that hold to their traditional principles but still train against any technique because all of these techniques have been around since the traditional times so they've always had at least the principles you can learn to use them.What of teakwondo a style that is no longer at all its traditional form it is in fact a sport and yet far less than what it was before that, fencing, shotokan in many cases sports have changed styles to the negative even judo which once had all of the bjj syllabus in their system as well as weapons defence and more is now far less than what it was
Combat sport competitions themselves are not even new concepts these systems have been testing long before bjj long before mma but they were never made just for the sport they continued to practice the art.
What if they enter combat sports. What if karate combat becomes the next big thing, they're still using karate so what does it change.
Wow! Fantastic! Agreed
and there, i believe, you have just made this analogy work so much better. i think "modern martial artists" seriously have an ego problem that they need checked, because they all have the exact same problems as those tma schools they condemn so much
Judo never had all of BJJ syllabus. BJJ is fundamentally different from Judo for you wrestle for the Mount and / or Back Mount instead of wrestling for the Osaekomi. And even the sole, iirc, judo leglock was added to their syllabus by a non-judoka, and so much in the beginning of Judo, Kano was still alive, that it hardly matter anyway, just like BJJ's striking. Get your things straight.
@@memysurname7521 @Me My surname judo had submissions you did not always look to hold down you could in fact look to get control and choke or submit and all the techniques were already there.
As for the techniques from non judoka, most were added from jujutsu, the leg lock was part of fusen ryu.
Jigoro kano asked the fusen ryu practicioners who defeated his students to help him improve and develop his art with their techniques he didn't have, they were implimented and mixed with the larger variety of take downs judo had and became part of the syllabus. Along with the locks and submissions judo already had
I trained at an Aikido dojo for decades. While we did DO traditional Aikido, and we had the normal testing and requirements, and followed the traditions handed down, we ALSO did A LOT of mixing it up with other martial arts. Wresting, boxing, BJJ. Anyone we could get into the dojo to train with us, we did. We had military people, police tactical training, weapons people. And yeah, we attempted to adapt 'Aikido' to various situations as much as possible. Hell, we even incorporated scuba diving, why? Because scuba requires balance and breathing and awareness and concern with your diving partner.
We found value in our Aikido roots, and we found enlightenment by pull up those roots and giving them legs to walk and run. I believe this could be done with ANY traditional MA. But good, fluid instructors are difficult to find. One of Aikido's advantages was I could travel to almost any place in the world, and find dojo to train at. And we spoke a common 'Aikido' language, but rarely did I find places that were willing to push the boundaries of Aikido, and make it a better art. To be honest, I think Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido, would be turning over in his grave by people who would solidify what he taught. Aikido itself is a mix of several arts such as fencing, Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu and more.
"Life is growth. If we stop growing, technically and spiritually, we are as good as dead." -Morihei Ueshiba, O Sensei.
Another great video from Grandmaster Ramsy!!!
Hey! That's Ultra-Grandmaster Singer of the Seven Sword-Fists Ramsey!
Plz don't ever delete this vid bro!!
🙏🏻🙏🏻
There may be times when I might feel sad/severely depressed/suicidal & I plan on coming back 2 this video in hopes of feeling better after watching the video & reading the people's comments.
This video zapped me like a bolt of lightning & awoke something within me (something I didn't even know was there)
Ty brotha 🙏🏻💚💜
I wonder if the Klingons also had a story about the Tower, and used it as an inspiration to fight and kill their gods?
That’s exactly what Klingons would do.
Ramsey all I wanna say is, you are genuinely one of my favorite martial arts youtubers and this is honestly because you are one of the few few who approaches these talks from a none biased perspective while crediting everything what they are good at but always being critical what they are bad at. which is something very few on here do, for they are so obsessed with the "shock value" with click bait titles "BOXING WILL GET U KILLED" and what not.
If you want to be a doctor, you must learn latin.
Not true at all
But not as a fluent spoken language, only as root words. More like archaic parts we use for new purposes in English. Sciene in general uses Latin BECAUSE it is dead. This way it can be a language base exclusive to science and thus prevent slang changes from ongoing common usage.. Ramsey gets into this 7:030ish. Can't even understand my own langauge anymore. So science uses Latin as it is and it doesn't change across generations....
You've helped me to reconcile my experience in TMA as a teacher student and practitioner with modern reality. Thanks dude. Keep up the good work.
I get your point (and don't study any traditional martial arts), but I also can't help but think when you're speaking about real fighting that MMA is about winning fights in a tightly constrained environment. MMA has weight classes, gloves, no weapons, and it's fairly safe to go to the ground-to be really good at fighting in that environment isn't the same as to be good at fighting, full stop. This isn't even about "on da streetz wher der is no rulz" but I don't believe that they train navy seals or army rangers in MMA, since their job is to actually kill people (granted, mostly with guns). The (American) police don't train in MMA because clinching when you have a gun on your belt is a bad idea, and why give up the advantage of a stick or a riot shield? Etc. I think that, in the end, there just isn't such a thing as being good at fighting, and there's only being good at fighting in a specific context, or range of contexts. I'd be more likely to bet on the kung fu guy who actually trains with real, sharp knives (and an EMT on standby; I'm thinking of a specific guy and not trying to generalize to all kung fu teachers) over the MMA guy who never trains with knives in a fight against a knife, even if kung fu may not be as overall effective in an unarmed fight.
I love your videos and how real you are, it makes me feel more comfortable at my gym. I travel all over and am not so good at sparring yet and always am at new places with people I don’t know. Having these videos helps me with the questions I would normally not know. Appreciate it my dude
Isn’t Muay Thai also a traditional style though? Latin would be an alive, thriving language if we just got a couple thousand people, made our own city, and started speaking it. Tma can be revived! Just look at Hema. The problem is, most tma schools haven’t even accepted that there is a problem.
HEMA is a historical revival, not a how to win a sword fighting method.
Muay Thai is an old combat sport, not a traditional martial art. The sport has changed a lot over the years and continues to do so. Keeping up and passing down uniform traditions of Thai martial arts are not the priority of Muay Thai. Winning fights is.
Look at the most traditional part of Muay Thai, the Wai Khru Ram Muay. (The ritual bowing, dancing, and prayers that precede a Muay Thai fight). No two fighters do it the same way though. When Thai fighters compete in China, they don’t do the whole song and dance beforehand.
Spot on. I use this language analogy all the time with my music students. I think language is such a deep and rich metaphor for learning in general because it's not only one of if not the first skills children develop, but it may be the world's first meta technology enabling the formation of all other tech.
I actually think Traditional martial arts are cool! But when they act like they are some great fighting system or they can defeat five people with weapons at the same time or no touch knock outs or any of the other silly stuff. Then they are just asking for it.
Well thing is that most of the people claiming such things are just frauds, and not actually well educated in a traditional martial art.
you mean like mma "fighters"?? lol!! its a human issue, not a tma vs. mma issue.. right?
@@alfonsonajera2439 Don't be ridiculous, MMA aren't at the same league with TMA when it comes to Bulshido, even because MMA is ridiculously young
@@memysurname7521 I've been in the martial world for 34 years now. Just listen to these guys talk, and understand that the same "rules" you apply to a traditional martial artist, must also apply to a modern martial artist. Its the process of growth, man. The ego in the martial arts today, is unbelievable. Take, fir example, your response to my comment. You are SO SURE of yourself in this point of view. Ridiculous? Seriously? You already have a prejudice befire even starting the conversation.. you never even took the time to understand where I could be right, but also where I could be wrong. As I've said many times, you will always find masters agree more than disagree, and amateurs disagree more than agree.. take your time to watch and listen, and you will find startling similarities. Its a commonly known factor in psychology..
This was a good speech. Imma type some stuff real quick. Lots of stuff. Just skip over it if it’s too long.
Couple things I’ve been reflecting on lately:
1. A friend of mine and I were reacting to one of sensei Seth’s recent videos with Wonderboy Thompson. We were really impressed with Wonderboy (my friend had actually been to one of his fights in person). We were trying to figure out how either of us would beat him. I went for an infighting approach to shut down his counterpunching. My friend being more mma minded immediately said “get him against the cage.” I was like “what cage?” My training (although I have competed in several amateur formats) did not take the cage into account. That may not exist in the real world environments TMAs were designed for.
2. My main TMA is Baguazhang - a Chinese wrestling system similar to Taijiquan only with more emphasis on footwork. While many of the strategies and techniques of bagua were initially hidden from me, once I learned to box and wrestle I’ve had almost no problem actually applying bagua in sparring and in self defense situations. I’m grateful to combat sports and combat sport coaches like Mr. Dewey for showing me how to apply what I’ve learned.
The thing about bagua, though is that’s how it was supposed to be. We have no idea how the founder of the art actually fought. He would only accept students who had already mastered another style of kung fu. And then he taught each student based on their body types and previous experience.The only people keeping bagua ‘traditional’ are those who don’t apply it to other systems and don’t try to use it in actual situations.
3. My other TMA is Arnis - a weapon system from the Philippines. Once you get past our culture’s obsession with empty hand fighting, you’ll realize that Arnis is extremely capable and functional for actual fighting. It is BS proof because otherwise you will get stabbed! There isn’t a single thing in the Arnis that I practice that couldn’t be used against another human being. Stick, knife, sword, cane, empty hand, ground fighting. Would it work in a cage? Can I take a sword into the cage?
4. I realized recently that my TMA’s may be a lot more functional than many other people’s training and experience. Training in combat sports have only made it better. I’m confused as to why so much Bullshido has been allowed to spread. It kind of bothers me how there are so many ineffective TMAs around today. I don’t understand. I hope that yes, more people will train effective combat sport material but I also hope we will see more effective TMAs in the future. I’ve seen effective TMAs and they have their place.
I will use your Metapher forever. Seriously great!!!
I absolutely would love to hear you sing a Klingon Opera ! That piece of Information, that you´ve learned Klingon made my day as a Trekkie.
I also love your Point of View on TMA, and i already feel the stiffness of tradition as I've started my journey of traditional Tae-kwon Do when i turned 40 this year. sure, i did not have started it because to become a great fighter but to dig deeper in movement, to evolve my knowledge of moving and balance and learn more about my Body and eventually get a glimpse of the History of that other culture too. It is a great hobby with big health benefits for me, just like i do my Yoga and Climbing. I´ve tried Capoeira, Tai Chi and ju-jutsu for some years for the same reason and the more i learn the more i love that stuff. By, adding, mixing and awareness i can still honor the tradition but also help shaping the evolution of it, that is just awesome. Because of that i feel like what ido, think, add, or change might matter someday for someone too, no matter if i teach it to my child or maybe to a student in some years. Language is fluid just as Movement and i love to apply that principle to Movement whenever i can. Thank you for your thoughts on this matter and sorry for my english I´m from Germany, i still have to learn and practice my skills a lot. LLAP 🖖
I respectfully disagree with the idea that TMA are a dead language, because the foundation of MMA is traditional martial arts...Muay Thai is a TMA, Jiu Jitsu is a TMA, the Karate and Tae Kwon Do kicks that we see in modern MMA fights are TM. I think the issue is that during the 70s,80s and early 90s mass media by way of Kung Fu movies and things like Power Rangers diluted the combative logistics of TMA so the perception was that it was ineffective because it became mystical. TMA like KyoKushin, Krave Maga, Tae Kwon Do, forms of Kung Fu such as Shuia Jiao and Sanda HAVE been proven effective.
Dead language doesn't mean it doesn't work. The goal of TMA is to preserve the ashes of the past while modern martial arts is to keep that fire from the past burning in future fighters. This has nothing to do with TMA effective or not.
The foundation of all modern languages is older dead languages. How is that different?
@@RamseyDewey Im sorry but your assessment just doesn't make sense to me [respectfully] not when MMA stylist 15 years ago were saying things like side kicks and spin kicks wont work in the UFC only to be proven that...they can. The idea of Traditional Martial arts doesn't hold up when MMA stylist are using techniques from TMA and claiming they are outdated. And to be honest I'm a fan of Martial arts in general I think there is something to be learned from martial arts as a whole. Martial arts in my opinion is one of the highest forms of human expression, there is most certainly a combative element, but there is a philosophical element, spiritual elements etc. I think its narrow minded to claim that TMA is a dead language when languages exist for different reasons and for different purposes and I also think its narrow minded to not view MMA as TMA. I love your videos BTW and I say none of this as disrespect. Would I do Kata or Poomsae if I'm being robbed, no of course not, but that's not its purpose. I understand your point but I think there is a bit of nuance missing from the statement that TMA is a dead language.
@@jaketheasianguy3307 I think my point is being missed, I'm saying that MMA and TMA are one in the same so why call it a dead language. There are techniques that evolve with the times, most certainly but there are techniques within ''MMA'' that evolve or prove to be ineffective in certain situations. I most certainly agree that there are schools of combat that refuse to evolve for the sake of tradition...definitely not arguing that nor am I here to argue at all, I just think there is so much emphasis on discrediting what is perceived as TMA when to be technical any martial art system that is decades old with standardized training is TMA.
Basically the main difference between TMA and Modern MA is the way they train, their approach to training and conditioning.
Techniques are more or less the same.
The mindset and the reason why they train are also different
Superb explanation to reveal... I got the meaning behind the words with these video even I haven't a english tongue...
Long well sifu Ramsey Dewey 🙏
As a student of Latin I felt personally targeted 😅
Ribeiro BJJ guy here....I dig how you are both intellectual and pragmatic, and as a result...a bad ass. Love your stuff, best of luck in your endeavors.
Being a TMA practicioner, I agree with you partly. When you talk about real conversations, TMA practicioners have their own fights and sparring with their own rulesets, they do communicate. It's just not as realistic and efficient as more modern systems.
The reasons why people practice TMA and their focus are just different from modern MA practicioners.
I wouldn't call them dead though 🤣
That analogy would hold true IF some traditional martial arts didn't still have secrets and knowledge that MMA is only still just discovering. I remember in 2005 MMA was saying the same things about spin kicks, side kicks, backside kicks, etc. *eye roll* Now they use them.
MMA is still way behind and is still borrowing things from TMA. TMA is not the "dead language" just yet.
You have uplifted me today
A good point well made...I’m currently training in Goju Ryu and I’ve recently begun to question kata bunkai applications that to me make a defence more complex but am ‘encouraged’ to continue with them despite my own doubts...
What if your hapkido teacher who also teaches Muay Thai and BJJ also includes flow sparring and rolling in your hapkido training?
If you are learning something practical in a good environment, that's all that matters. I would also point out that Hapkido is a very recent hybrid style that I would kinda be loathe to call TMA. It teaches grappling and striking to some extent already, and if you mix that with other styles and full contact sparring, you likely have a pretty good base.
@@AveSicarius now he doesn’t include full contact sparring, he says you want that join Muay Thai, but the rolling he does in it from his BJJ training is 100% rolling like you see in BJJ. Like he teaches Muay Thai and BJJ to their fullest in their respective classes, but the Muay Thai bits in hapkido he teaches are bag combos, Thai pad combos, and light flow sparring. Which usually includes kick checking and such.
Mr Ramsey Dewey, I have been subscribed to your channel for a few months now. I always find it interesting to hear your opinion on things and I agree with a lot of what you say. I love that you are willing to learn traditional forms to find the original purpose of the sequences in them and to see if they can serve a new purpose to add to your arsenal.
I find the comparison of martial arts to languages absolutely fascinating.
Although saying learning traditional martial arts is like learning a dead language might be going a little bit too far. A foreign language, maybe. Quoting a Slipknot song, "Old does not mean dead, New does not mean best" (And I do know that a lot of traditional martial arts are not that old) . I personally feel that traditional martial arts and codified styles still has a place in the world of combat sports because everybody is different, what works for one person may not work for another. It also provides a good foundation and/or a different perspective in combat/communication.
For example: a MMA fighter that comes from a boxing background and he or she relies on a lot on head punches so much that it comes a weakness in their game. In that case I would have him/her spar under knockdown karate rules at least once a week open their minds to other approaches to their stand up game and add more weapons to their arsenal.
I hope that my insight is helpful or at least interesting in someway. God Bless.
Latin is an awesome and beautiful language. Roma Invicta.
I mean that steak I had last night was pretty awesome as well. It's also about as useful.
@@JohnSmith-ty2he relatable.
Linguare Deorumesque? Est bonum as scium, ad difficulum. Momentum, meam fratres, Roma es imperatus. Roma es aeternus.
@@JohnSmith-ty2he bruh
I am a martial artist and a linguist and mathematician...
This is a very beautiful text.
I studied in Heidelberg, Germany.
And I spend 2 years in Shanghai.
The Motto above the "new university" building there is "dem lebendigen Geist" which means "to the living spirit" or "the alive mind" and is a reminder against repetition without purpose in teaching and learning.
Love you content.
If I am back in Shanghai, I'll come by to sparr and if you have time, I'll take you out to dinner.
Let's extend your metaphor: MMA is a pidgin language, made up of words from other, complete languages, useful in a few limited contexts. A traditional martial art is complete language, useful in every context, but only within it's culture.
Once again, I find one mocking the other as "inferior" as missing the point. Each speaks to a different goal or need. And MMA may be the sport most similar to a fight, but it's still a sport. There is communication. A fight is a violent refusal to listen, truly chaotic and uncontrolled. Then there are the various motivations for assault.
If you're justifying mocking a martial art, what is your art FOR? Check in with your motivation for proficiency with violence, then go with what feels right for you. I'm starting to feel about these martial arts evangelists and purists the same way as I do about missionaries and evangelist preachers: who tf are you to get between me and my propensity for/engagement with combat? Maybe I don't train for the octagon. Maybe I train because gang violence in my neighborhood has escalated to terrifying levels, BJJ got some disarms I haven't seen? Maybe I train because my fiancee is getting threats from an ex and his friends, does your gym train for group attacks?
What's best is what suits your needs and proclivities, no one thing will ever be The Way. Anyone telling you different is selling something.
The problem is that the ultimate judge of a martial art's utility is in its ability to fight with competent resisting opposition, regardless of their background. MMA practices about as close to street level as sparring and competition can get without extra risk, but TMA tends to have, to put it mildly, less than adequate sparring. It's a result of overfocusing on tradition over practicality. Tradition can be nice, but if you want to pressure test, tradition is usually more hindrance than help. This gets worse in the highest pressure test of all, actual fighting. granted, a good number of those whom you'd fight are dipshits that are liable to do as much damage to themselves as to you, but that doesn't help much if your traditions didn't include sparring with someone who wouldn't just sit there while you do your weird combo.
@@ember3579 I hear this sort of response a lot. I guess there just must be more bullshit schools than I've imagined. I took traditional karate and tae kwon do in a smallish town. I saw plenty of pressure testing and blue or brown belts from ANY school were best avoided, as they liked to go out and test themselves (navy town). One thing I never see in MMA is another guy kicking you in the back while you're trying to choke his buddy. TMA runs those scenarios often.
And you fail to speak to my point about communication: it's not all about trade or violence. A black belt in a TMA can talk nuance and application in their "language" to a degree that I feel MMA lacks. If you believe that the sole purpose of martial arts is to kick ass, then you're probably right where you belong.
Your premise is wrong, as a rule MMA is useful in a greater number of contexts than TMA.
@@memysurname7521 sure, and you'll always fight one at a time and they'll all be within three pounds of your weight. My premise is that shitting on someone's art is a dick move, how was that wrong?
One can take the metaphor even further I think. Sometimes it is like speaking a language in the wrong place - like speaking Greek in China and await to be understood. As a Taiji practitioner, I have always wondered about many seemingly ineffectual movements in the forms but then I realised as a historian that many people are going about this all wrong. One must research the nature of violence during the period when a martial art was conceived in order to understand what is going on. As far as we know Taijiquan originates in the 15-16th century Henan, China and it was created for military training - fighting in battle or for the protection of merchant caravans crossing the country. So the main aspects of a Taiji conversation are how can I survive as a weaponless person in the middle of a battle fought mainly with swords and spears and how to use a weapon. Does anyone train with this in mind today? Nobody. So trying to speak Taiji in an MMA fight or in any ring in this era is like talking Greek to a Chinese audience. Won´t work.
You want a word comparison. MMA is computer code, TMA is spoken/written words.
Both use letters and symbols, but the results are totally different.... on purpose. They use the same characters but for entirely different reasons & outcomes
What’s the obsession with comparing TMA & MMA. You don’t see programmers look at poets & say “that won’t code” That’s because the reason for it being isn’t the same Poets aren’t trying to make an app run & programmers aren’t trying to make a sonnet
Sorry but the low key condescension is getting tiresome
Hum
I really appreciate your definition of "traditional" martial arts as being (paraphrasing) rigidly sticking to the same movements that have been passed down teacher to teacher regardless of effectiveness as opposed to defining "traditional" as being karate, kungfu etc. as a whole.
Your latin comparison is perfect. A few years ago I studied white crane style. I asked the instructor "Why we can't block like that" his answer: "because in white crane we block like that". Now I practice bjj and when I ask a question my instructor has always a pragmatic answer. I don't regret my bjj choice.
Nice to see people out there having similar interests. I m currently a student and a hobby linguist (mainly indo germanium and comparative study) and also life long MA and combat sports practitioner.
I also came to the same conclusion as you.
The thing most people say if they say they don't wanna learn Latin is that they don't have time learning a dead language. The same goes for TMA when you are seeing it through a combat/practicality lense. I find TMA fascinating and have the time to find out and test the applications but old timmy over there maybe not bc maybe he has a 50 hour week and wants sth that works fast
People use TMA in MMA all the time. Karate, Taekeondo, Judo, all of those
It's only a metaphor. They aren't perfect and have exceptions. Also all of those arts have very active international competitions and pressure testing.
@@alexsitaras6508
Oh
Just like people use Latin in English all the time. Like the words “people” (from the Latin “populus”) and “use” (from the Latin “usus”).
And neither of those concepts the same thing as speaking Latin or doing karate.
@@RamseyDewey
It just sounded like you were saying that TMA was almost useless in MMA
@@hypnoticskull6342 Traditional martial arts in the traditional sense are not used in MMA. By being adapted they distance themselves from being "traditional", although they still keep those roots.
I learnt Latin at school. I didnt use it much after I graduated, but it def. paved the way of my path towards superior knowledge.
"Be like a böket of vatön"
- Brus Li
Whenever you say that you began this channel to become a better at communicating is inspiring. I just listen to you and it feels like you just "get it".
We all know saitama from one punch man..is really ramsey in disguise.wise and a one world wonder.
Woah, i thought that Ramsey was saitama in disguise, not the otger way around! That's damn impresive
Those first 20 seconds. Bars 🔥
People in the mma community forget they too do traditional martial arts
Kinda. Not really.
Traditional martial arts are nice to cross train in. But I know dudes who compete in MMA and don't cross train in a single traditional style. And they win cage fights. Just practicing the sport of MMA.
@@hailhydreigon2700 But some people think mma is a style
@@darylfields then those people are also a bunch of fools, just like the TMA folks who put tradition over effectiveness
@@darylfields Some people also think a chance of finding bacteria on Mars is worth spending hundreds of billions of dollars on, while children on our planet starve to death. People are just dumb like that.
@@JohnSmith-ty2he Yep
This help re enlighten me again as I move forward in growth as a person and martial artist.
I thank God for you man 🙏🏿 and others on the same journey as well 🙏🏿
HEY RAMSEY I WILL BE BORN TOMORROW AM I TOO OLD TO START FIGHTING?
'Fraid so. You need to start in heaven.
Yujiro hanma be like
yes
I was born today. Started practicing sparring with the other kids at the hospital
@@rosure7 damn, nowdays kids plays minecraft before being born. Mad respect
What wasn’t noted is so-named TMA are in fact absolutely modern and only 2 or 3 generations old, while MMA, Grappling/Wrestling, Boxing and full-contact arts much more resembles the arts of antiquity. The modern “Do” and sports schools of the arts were not designed to be about fighting, but about exercising, health and self-improvement. Especially in the West, these arts were sold as fighting/tough guy activities, when in fact the fighting was secondary.
For me, learning TMA initially was like the book Jonathan Livingston Seagull in which the physical led to the mental which led to the spiritual. Combat sports does not have this voyage, Of course, I've evolved, to the best of my ability, my skill set over the years, but I am grateful for the foundation that TMA gave me.
Studying history is important; it gives you a glance at past peoples, but for understanding them, it's like trying to gauge someone's soul from a portrait.
hey so did you know that sanda is both military martial art and kickboxing style thats why i have chosen sanda,kyokushin karate,taekwondo itf muay thai and krav maga
Not JKD anymore ? Oh dear. Ah well.
@@walterevans2118 yeah sanda is good better and more effective than shaolin kung fu,wing chun,jkd in self defence,street fighting and works in combat sport mma
No style is superior to one another, it's all about the practitioner. Every style that teach you to make a violence contact upon another human being would work as long as the person already knows how to fight instead of dancing around doing forms all day, even wing chun, taichi, aikido....
Also, doing a bunch of different styles at the same time won't work well in MMA because you can't synchronize them. Focus on 1 solid foundation and then add tiny bit of other styles into your own, that works better
@@jaketheasianguy3307 but is jkd both style and philosophy or just philosophy
JKD would be more functional for street defense I think. Interesting point above about in MMA having One thing as a foundational fundament & other styles as supplements ....Interesting which ones would serve best as foundations in a sport environment.
Something Ramsey didn't say but I think it is crucially important is that language isn't just a communication tool, after all, you also organize your own thoughts through language. Ported over to martial arts (or jazz improv, right?) it means that when you're training your own training vocabulary is organized by the "language" you're using. If you're proficient in multiple languages, then your ideas can transcend just one single language. This ability to "bridge" across different languages is great tool for lateral thinking and problem solving in general, since you are not limited to a single perspective. The benefits this has when you're improvising (fighting, right?) are pretty clear.
One hundred and fourth 😌
I was surprised that in this video you were talking about both martial arts *and* languages - two things I absolutely love.
So Esperanto is MMA?
No one actually speaks Esperanto.
@@RamseyDewey What is that?
Another problem with Traditional Martial Arts could be summed up by a something that an old master of mine told me, "People in one style of traditional martial arts learn how to fight and defend against others in that style."
Damn I even took the time to read that tremendously written description. A really well informed opinion and a very strong simile to bring your opinion to life.
Im a combat sports practitioner and a graduated phylologist, and never tought of this comparison. Very wise as always sir.
I understand how they got so committed to these traditions so long ago. It's because people were scared techniques would be lost so they created the forms. But these traditions are now holding them back really bad. TMA needs to be reformed and it's gonna take several generations to get it right.
I love Star Trek. The original, The Next Generation, Deep Space Nine, and Voyager were excellent!!!
This is like a mini-doc, it is very good beyond other things done here. I think it can be more than just what the thumbnail implies. It should be in shows for short form non-fiction I think.
I spent a summer at BYU in an advanced language class for Spanish . The Army sent me there. It was very interesting, and very difficult . Most of the rest of the class were PHD's , I was a soldier.
I went to BYU.
Eh. To a degree you’re absolutely, 100% spot on; but only in the field of capacity in a fight. Yes, modern MMA is superior in terms of literally everything in a fight, but that stone block had to go through a lot of carving to become the statue it is today. TMA built MMA, and MMA outran it, but I don’t believe the sentiment that TMA has been made obsolete, because competency in real fights is only one of the aspects of martial arts. Many traditional styles build up discipline, confidence, and a plethora of other things that MMA does, but also different things, like meditation, culture, and other things that might not be immediately affective in a fight. To put this in other words, a mediocre practitioner of boxing will kick the butt of most higher-learned Kung Fu martial artists, but that doesn’t make Kung Fu, or any other Traditional style, useless. To stay true to the king fu example, there’s relaxation in meditation that you’ll never find in boxing, there’s discipline in many places that teach Kung Fu that might beat the typical practices of Boxing gyms. Most of the greatest artists of all time in fighting come from a Traditional martial arts setting. TMA is also in many cases a gateway for people breaking into fighting, and can lay the foundations for any individual who might go on to MMA. Another argument for the relevance of TMA is the culture and tradition that it contains. Yes, it makes the different styles stubborn against change, but it’s one of the only experiences that lets us connect with people that were alive thousands of years ago. It lets us keep different cultures and traditions alive while still maintaining the traits I brought up earlier- building physical and mental discipline and several other things that will help anyone with a future in MMA or even just life. Yes, in combat, MMA will always beat any TMA style before you can say Bazinga, but there are many reasons that TMA will always be relevant, most of which I don’t know off of the top of my head and didn’t explore in this comment. It’s worth noting that I have a personal background in Taekwondo and a fondness of traditional arts, so I might be a bit biased in the conversation of TMA and MMA, but I also have a very high respect for MMA. I think the whole debate on this is silly, as TMA and MMA both present things that the other can not even possibly bring out. Both will survive for a very, very long time, and neither will ever become obsolete, and most of all, both should be respected with sincerity and high regard.
I really appreciate this analogy because I’ve always viewed all martial arts as a linguistic and cultural study as well as an athletic pursuit. When I took karate and judo we were required to learn Japanese terminology and phrases to progress.
Interesting video! Funnily enough, I have a friend who is deeply passionate about learning Latin and studying classics. I don't know much about studying language, but I think in a lot of ways my friend isn't learning how to communicate with the living but with the dead. That's not me knocking him; that's by the design. Learning the language gave him an insight into his intellectual heritage that is in some ways foreign to those of us without that ability.
I think there is something analogous in martial arts too. Reading Dave Lowry's writings have been fascinating. I don't know if the guy can fight whatsoever (though he did study Judo for some time, so I would imagine that he's more capable than the average person), but his experiences with Kenjutsu are fascinating. Here, too, we see a person who isn't so much trying to speak with the living as much as the dead. Studying traditional Japanese martial arts has given him an insight into Japanese culture that he wouldn't have gotten otherwise.
I suspect when most people seek martial arts, they're looking for something best provided by modern combat sports. Most people train in martial arts because they want (or at least think they want) to be more effective at combat. I do, however, think that TMA does provide something, however, that combat sports does not: continuity with the past. For people for whom that is important, TMA might be the better way to go. TMA embodies tradition, or at least tries to, in a way that that few other touchstones with history can provide. So I suppose, as you've said many times, the value one receives through TMA ultimately depends on why a person is looking to learn it.
This was very beautiful Ramsey. When I was a teenager I had a karate teacher that wasn't very good by any modern metrics, he enjoyed drinking a bit too much and got into fights with random dudes on occasion. One day he showed up to class with a bloody nose and said something to the effect of 'yall gotta remember that what I teach you here works against people that also learned what I teach here. Outside, you gotta improvise'. That visionary did the whole 'in da streets' thing 20 years ago. Also got his ass kicked by a boxer that actually learned to punch people in the face.
That really made sense to me. Thanks, as always, Coach Dewey. Cheers from Texas.
Came for the martial arts, stayed for the deep philosophy and insight. Thanks for the great content as always
This was one of the best essays I have heard in my whole life
Took karate since I was a kid. Very fortunate to have a Japanese master that understands that there's the tradition to things and the "combat/street/self defence" to things. Kata stayed to tradition while our kumite was free to evolve a little while using the tradition as the guide. Now I don't think I'll win a belt for the UFC but it's a great balance to keep the tradition and spiritual journey while being more than capable to defend myself.
Man! It's like if you had taken a look at my PhD! My academic studies are based on philology, I'm a philologist (English philology), but more specifically it is focused on the study of traditional Japanese martial culture and its echoes in the Western cultures. And an important part of this PhD is language! I compare traditional martial arts and modern martial arts with a language! You can speak perfectly a modern language, and with no need of delving into its roots... But understanding the roots, you would be able to understand why you use that language and how it evolved from the root!
This is, maybe due to the awesome coincidence in thought, my favourite video of your channel! 🙇🏻♂️🙇🏻♂️🙇🏻♂️
Congrats for the video coach!
The problem with traditional martial arts is that we put it in a pedestal while not even really having any idea gow ancient people applied them long time ago. I am 100 percent certain that an ancient fighter would kick ass today esp if he had experience in warfare
I work at call-center as an English support agent. I know a bit of Spanish. Enough to chat with person live and have basic conversation with collegaues, but not enough to speak with Latin America. And I tell you this. It is easy to speak with person who is fluent. New Zealander will never forget that in language that is not inflicted and has no conjugations, word order and presence of certain words matters A LOT. Even if your English is bad (and we have some agents whose English was never developed beyond "had good marks at school"), that guy alone can carry a meaningful conversation. Same goes with Spanish. I easily read what an intellegent person wrote to me and that person understands me in return (even though my level of Spanish, as described by Ecuadorean is "has enough words in right order").
But then we have clients who are not smart. They use wrong words. They mess-up grammar. Their pronunciation is awful. They can't even say certain words or substitute sounds for their local equivalents. Sometimes Russians write to us in bad English and I actually have to flex my native speaking to translate what is said back to Russian in a way that makes sense (including keeping in mind what words are different in English, but same in Russian) and reconstruct grammar that was lost. Slavic languages have very complex grammar, so you can have a relatively meaningful sentence that has nothing but infinitive verbs.
In fighting it is the same. It is easy to learn a couple of moves and go to boxing match. You need far bigger vocabulary and fluency to fight a person who doesn't know what the hell they are doing.
By the way, yes. A lot of moves in forms are designed to fight an unskilled person. After all, even now it is extremely rare for "real" fighting to occur between skilled martial artist. There simply not that many of us for that to be the case. And there are not that many things martial artists are willing to fight for. It is not that old forms have nothing against a trained fighter, but it is similar to what my Muay Thai coach said: -- Fighting starts you do this. -- And if it doesn't work? -- That's what the rest of Muay Thai is for
Wisdom is beautiful. This is beautiful and wise and good for all parts of life.
Great video and deep thoughts. You have used this "martial arts is a conversation" theme in subsequent videos and I agree 100%. The language comaprision is rich with good analogies. Did you know that when people learn to sign in another language they lose their accent? It remains when they have a conversation, but they can sign without it.
I will contrast with a reflection. You statement "Can't understand my own language in my own country..." is the reason we need TMA. It is the reason we attempt to preserve without change the forms and rituals. It is why science uses Latin to make new terms and names, as a dead language it no longer changes.
Every person is not a teacher nor fighter nor master, yet it is every one of us s a school that try to carry this body of knowledge across the decades. Who am I to make up something new? Is it fair and honest to experiement on new students? Will rejecting TMA and inventing sometining new really work ten years from now? or will we discover the bad habit flaws or cummulative injrury cycles ourselves in our students the hard way?
Can a combat sport school continue to train fighters who arrive at a functional lethal fighter level over and over on it's own? over decades? Won't they have to stop killing and maiming and injuring eachother over time and the teachers finally age into a set of safe methods? Now we have a tradition! Teacher barking at us not to do it that way but they do not tell us why.
As a teacher, I can tell you we grow frustrated with students inventing new things to add to our lessons. We grow impatient with young men telling us they want to figure it out themselves, while still claiming the brand we teach. Then they complain about the brand? The traditional approach has reasons related to duplication of instruction over decades. Combat Sports have this now too, their own TMA core. Many TMA spar hard and might have fight contests, they often just do not require all members to do that so I am not willing to say TMA does not have contact sparring.
We use archaiac and oudated methods so that all people have a shared history, and I agree that students do not need it. They just need good material to practice in an alive way. The teachers benifit from the reflections on dead languages though, and they serve as a baseline measurement to see if the martial art is drifting away from it's roots. In the famous novel "Ishmael" by Quinn the question was asked: Without Man, can the gorilla survive? But the back of the sign read: With the wild gorilla, can Humankind survive? It is a snake eating it's tail paradox...
In your great anaolgy you have forgotten one last thing! There are 3 catagories of language: Archaiac (Old English), Modern (American or British Standard English) and Emerging (texting shorthand, memes, or African American Standard English), a simplified way to organize language use. As new versions of English get standardized and old versions fade away we must classify the new and very small changes as they become their own language. MMA was an emerging langauge in Martial Arts prior to UFC. Now it is the dominant martial art language. But what about grammer? This MMA slang language wears cups and gloves and mouth guards....it schedules fights for specific times inside squares and does allow strikes to the groin or back of the head....As a new standard language, it has bad grammer. This is like using a double negative in English, or saying "ain't ain't a real word...." and many other things we take as normal but which the standard American English has not accepted yet. Will English ever? African American Standard English for example is a real thing, fighting for it's place in academics, yet unaccepted by most people as just "bad grammer." But it is the fastest growing new languag eon Earth, copied in more countries and inventing new words more than any other. You feeling me dog?
We speak how our parents spoke, we fight the way our sifu taught us to fight....but only a few learn to sing.
Language flows unstoppably like immeasurable Life. A novel technique against something unpredictable, if it is repeated systematically, over time it integrates into your experience and becomes tradition, for you and for those around you, thus creating new words, new combat strategies. Ancestral knowledge is perfected in acts and deeds. But the time will also come when the discourse on everything we do now will also be a dead language, it will be lost to the supremacy of new names, practices, rituals, adapted for people, teachers and new times. Some will make the network more intricate, others will try to simplify the network. There may be great tricks that get lost along the way, others can be reinvented. This is continuous receiving and continuous giving. The movements and practices that manage to spread and last will be true treasures, of course not so much to keep them as to show them off in everyday life. Wisdom, compassion and grace for you brothers.
This is awesome. To be able to learn, adapt, absorb, apply, and abolish... Thanks for the enlightenment!