BTW: Classic situation at 3:00, where another driver flashes someone to say you can come out in front of me, without considering if anyone else is coming!
I understand your point, but in defensive driving, an headlamp flash simply means, I'm staying here, do what you need to do. The responsibility lies with the drivers around that headlamp flash. Best avoided though in that situation.
Whilst this is obvisouly a (rather good) video about driving in the wet, be warned that modern cars are actually, probably more likely to both bite you, and actually result in a more serious accident when driven in the dry! This is for a couple of reasons: 1) Modern cars, even "cooking models" have a very, very high lateral stiffness these days. What that means, is they are very, very good at turning, so if you apply the wrong amount of steering input, they WILL turn, and turn very very quickly indeed. They also have typically very "fast" steering ratio's ie how much the steering wheels turn per degree of handwheel (what most people call the "steering wheel" but called the handwheel here to avoid confusion with the "steering wheels" ie the front ones!). This means, that get your inputs to the handwheel wrong, especially in extremis, or when grip is breached and even more critically, suddenly restored, and the car can be made to loose control extremely quickly indeed, too fast even for the DSC to save you in come circumstances 2) When it's dry there is more total grip, so you might be tempted to use it, ie to drive faster, and hence, an unexpected loss of grip, due to say road surface change, spilt diesel / oil, or a big pothole, can be more catastrophic because you are going faster then the higher grip is lost To drive safely (and quickly) in the wet is more about reading the road ime, and then as Reg says, it's smoothness, smoothness and smoothness, but with positivity, ie don't let the car drive you!
This is the perfect video I've been looking for!- I'm in the very early stages of looking at the M2 Comp and having never had RWD I'm conscious of the reputation of RWD especially in the wet etc... I have no intention of ripping around, drifting, turning off TC etc however every video I come across is always a TH-camr showing off how easy it is to get the back end out with TC off etc (as if that's all anyone with an M2C wants to do?!?!)... Until now I've never seen someone doing a sensible, real world test of the M2C - I consider myself a 'decent' driver that even in a Peugeot 308 diesel adjusts my driving to the conditions etc so its comforting to see that as long as you are sensible with this car and drive to the conditions its perfectly useable!... Thanks Reg.
I had to laugh at "Hedge-Seeker Supremes" @11:00. I guess for most drivers in the city, the 1.6mm is OK, but for us "drivers", the 3mm is a good recommendation.
Thanks for the video! Picked up my M2 comp on Saturday and it hasn't stopped raining. Just enjoying taking it easy during the break in period, getting used to the car and respecting it & the conditions. Adjusting from FWD fk8 Type R has been easier than expected because the car feels so composed, but I think I'll wait for dry weather before turning ESC off. May save that for the track.
Other things to be mind full of in the wet regarding grip. Iron works (man hole covers and cattle grids). Painted areas of the road. Also tarmac reflects very little light, so shiny = slippery, limit your inputs to the vehicle and plan ahead.
Manhole covers are honestly one of the most dangerous things in the wet. Find one of those at speed while turning and you'll know about it. Certain placements scare me more than standing water.
So to sum up, you can drive M2 in wet safely if you: - drive slower than usually in dry (and at higher gears, and keep more distance for longer braking if required) - are smooth with pedals and steering - watch out for any skidding traps (potholes etc) and avoid aquaplanning (too high speed on a surface covered with water) - leave stability systems on - take care of the car and make sure your tyres thread is still deep enough and that you buy good quality tyres Nothing that I haven't known, but thanks for showing M2 can be driven safely, cheers!
Great video Reg, and very informative. I use the term to "feather my accelerator" in wet and greasy conditions (not sure its a real term) but the point is I drive my M140i to the conditions of the road. I find it surprising that in this modern era of front wheel. four wheel, or whatever term is used, that people believe that rear wheel cars are challenging and will at some point bite you in the bum. I believe its down to driving skill, and also manufactures spend years testing cars in all weathers before the car is launched. I enjoy immensely driving my car in wet weather and will have a rear wheel drive car over any others, any time
I completely agree with you, reading the road and adapting your driving is all that is needed for most cars. I was out for a run in my M140i with my car club the other day and it was quite damp so definitely warranted extra care whilst driving quicker. Mine is a stage 2+ (485bhp) manual and it definitely commands that you respect it’s power in such a short wheelbase in the wet. All down to the driving skill with regards to attitude and application of inputs.
I run Rainsports on my RWD merc, superb in the wet. I also sack mine off for new at 3mm. I really don't get why people get the cheapest ditch finders, is your life worth 50 quid? Great video as always Reg.
I've never been one for budget tyres; always get the best I can afford. If money is tight and I need new tyres, I'll get something mid-range...typically, I'll only do that if I get a puncture. I've had bad experiences with tyre repairs, so always replace, not repair.
Ordering it tomorrow thank you Reg Now...what about one on bikes... food for thought. I remember years ago I bought one from a police motorcyclist called ‘Not the blue book’ made a stunning read.
@15:34 - A courtesy on the road has huge benefits. Both parties get a feedback - everyone likes a "thank you". The highways would be a better place if everyone did this. We are all navigating this world as best we can. If we recognised others, then we could lift up the "happiness" quotient and have a great day. :)
Even though there is traction control I’ve seen a few on TH-cam and one in real life spin out on straight acceleration. I presume it was turned off! I have one myself and never experienced it wanting to swap ends in the dry.
One feature of wet weather is that it seems to make road markings less easy to see and read, particularly if they are worn or poorly maintained. More than once I'm sure I have irritated local drivers by lining up in a left hand lane for a straight ahead exit from a roundabout, only to see, at the last minute that it's a dedicated first exit lane. Recently in Poole I came across a lane which appears to be either a first exit OR a first exit and straight ahead lane depending on whether it is wet or dry. I think that it had been changed on the cheap and painted over.
Great video! Can you advice what do you do to minimize impact when a car hit your from the rear right when there is no clearance on the front and the left?
Great video, many thanks. Would be good if you could get on a wet oily disused airfield etc. and demo that even a really top driver such as yourself can't beat the ESP etc. with it turned off. Other thing might be some more demos of one wheel/side of the car into standing water and video the steering wheel input to show how you control the car. Thanks again.
The car pulling out in front of you (2:59) after being flashed by the on coming vehicle happened to me a few years ago, the driver of a large 4x4 was flashed by an on coming vehicle to pull out to join the traffic flow. He failed to look right and I was on him (at 35mph in a 40) as he pulled out in front of me and then stopped in a panic. My car was written off and my wife and I sustained minor injuries. I now don’t trust any driver that is waiting to pull out onto the highway and find myself slowing down more than I maybe should or need to. I also try to know eyeball the driver and if I can’t I tend to take on an overly unnecessary avoidance measures. 🤬
Thanks for this, Reg; a really helpful summary and reminder. One question about the use of fog lights: Roadcraft (2020 edition) states (page 75) "When there's fog or falling snow at night, fog lights often give a better view than dipped headlights. Use them if visibility is 100 metres (328 feet) or less." Does your experience confirm this?
I've taken to cross climate tyres in the last couple of years; and swear by them. I find they give a little more grip in the icy sludge we tend to get down here in Wiltshire in the winter. As for turning off the stability controls; I've never really seen the need. My car is old, and not particular powerful by modern standards (220bhp), but unless I'm driving in cock mode, I don't see the traction control lights kick in at all.
Good vid Reg, for me one of the worst aspects of spray is when it gets so bad that you can't see the car in front, even with their lights on. And you'll still get those idiots who are 1 second behind who are accidents waiting to happen. It's shocking how close a lot will follow in poor conditions... or normal conditions.
Great driving and tips as always - but does staying in a higher gear really achieve much in a modern turbocharged performance car? Doesn't your M2 hit peak torque at just 2350 rpm?
Perhaps I didn’t spend long enough describing the benefits of this approach. In a higher gear, the car is less sensitive to accelerator pedal movements & results in better control through corners in the wet.
I had the same thought... the torque curve is probably flat 2000rpm to 6000 rpm for a modern turbo engine,... but a higher gear will mean a lower torque at the tire
What are your thoughts on using cruise control in conditions like on this video? I remember seeing something online about a smashed up car where the driver lost control hitting standing water with cruise control.
IME / IMO, I am fairly happy to use cruise control in poor weather conditions (Of course, There is a point at which full-manual control is needed) - For the most part, Modern cruise control systems will automatically instantly disable should there be a VSA activation, such as due to aquaplaning - I have had this happen (Just driving through a small cross-flow on a motorway), cruise control immediately cancelled, which is about a safe a state as one could ask for. Pairing cruise control with forward observations and intervening with a lower commanded speed or manual throttle control (Or, braking to disable) allows it to be used to "lighten the load" in a safe way despite conditions.
Good question. In conditions where the road is damp, there should be no problem in using cruise control. The problem comes when the road starts to hold water & puddles of deeper water start to form. Remember my advice in the video about standing water & aquaplaning - if you have to drive through standing water, avoid making any inputs. Cruise control gives a throttle input to the car to maintain speed, so using it runs the risk of inducing a skid if the car starts to aquaplane. Of course, stability systems will step in, but it’s still better avoided.
Trust me mate change to pilot sport 4s so much better. I've got m2c and it came with super sport. When they were finished I changed to rear tyres to ps4s so much better
I also changed my PSS to PS4S on my M2Comp two days ago. In the rain it's an awesome tyre. Grippy, silent. I'm running 500HP/700Nm MHD tune now. No sweat. :) Me in my ex 1M @ Zandvoort: th-cam.com/video/YYUljH6gAjo/w-d-xo.html
Probably a styling thing I think. They never did much on cars & were mostly there to keep the car a bit cleaner, but they make a guge difference on HGVs. It’s actually an offence not to have spray suppression equipment fitted to HGVs in the UK.
Just got my M2 competition but no way In hell am I driving it in the rain. Not because I’m scared, but because I don’t want to get it dirty. It’s my weekend car and I always check the forecast before taking it out :)
Aqua planing isn’t an issue until your car realises 🤦♂️lets say your doing 70 mph and it realises it applies traction control your front end dives into the water and your now doing 40mph visibility becomes zero because it’s created a water fall and cars behind you swerve if your lucky 😂
Sometimes it’s easy to know all the theory without having any actual ability. Until you have those first slides in the wet, learn from it and improve, the theory means nothing. I live where there are no national speed limits and I know a few advanced drivers. I’d only rate one behind the wheel. The rest are self certifying posers. Keen to criticise and belittle but never show and definable skill.
Not a bad video mate, but why would you buy an M2 Competition and always have traction fully on, never even turning it partially off? May as well just buy an Audi, something like an RS3. Fast, modern, great build quality, safe and boring. The whole reason you buy an M car is to enjoy having the power at the rear, bringing the back end out if the mood takes you, and keeping you on your toes when you don't want it to come out on you. You have to be mindful of it and respect it, otherwise you end up in a hedge. And that's what makes the cars what they are. Otherwise why wouldn't you just get an Audi? Not sure if you just said it for the benefit of the video and the audience though. Blink twice if you're under duress.
BTW: Classic situation at 3:00, where another driver flashes someone to say you can come out in front of me, without considering if anyone else is coming!
My right foot was through the floor!
'Courtesy causes confusion'
I understand your point, but in defensive driving, an headlamp flash simply means, I'm staying here, do what you need to do. The responsibility lies with the drivers around that headlamp flash. Best avoided though in that situation.
Whilst this is obvisouly a (rather good) video about driving in the wet, be warned that modern cars are actually, probably more likely to both bite you, and actually result in a more serious accident when driven in the dry! This is for a couple of reasons:
1) Modern cars, even "cooking models" have a very, very high lateral stiffness these days. What that means, is they are very, very good at turning, so if you apply the wrong amount of steering input, they WILL turn, and turn very very quickly indeed. They also have typically very "fast" steering ratio's ie how much the steering wheels turn per degree of handwheel (what most people call the "steering wheel" but called the handwheel here to avoid confusion with the "steering wheels" ie the front ones!). This means, that get your inputs to the handwheel wrong, especially in extremis, or when grip is breached and even more critically, suddenly restored, and the car can be made to loose control extremely quickly indeed, too fast even for the DSC to save you in come circumstances
2) When it's dry there is more total grip, so you might be tempted to use it, ie to drive faster, and hence, an unexpected loss of grip, due to say road surface change, spilt diesel / oil, or a big pothole, can be more catastrophic because you are going faster then the higher grip is lost
To drive safely (and quickly) in the wet is more about reading the road ime, and then as Reg says, it's smoothness, smoothness and smoothness, but with positivity, ie don't let the car drive you!
Also worth remembering that no stability system can overcome the laws of physics.
This is the perfect video I've been looking for!- I'm in the very early stages of looking at the M2 Comp and having never had RWD I'm conscious of the reputation of RWD especially in the wet etc... I have no intention of ripping around, drifting, turning off TC etc however every video I come across is always a TH-camr showing off how easy it is to get the back end out with TC off etc (as if that's all anyone with an M2C wants to do?!?!)...
Until now I've never seen someone doing a sensible, real world test of the M2C - I consider myself a 'decent' driver that even in a Peugeot 308 diesel adjusts my driving to the conditions etc so its comforting to see that as long as you are sensible with this car and drive to the conditions its perfectly useable!... Thanks Reg.
I had to laugh at "Hedge-Seeker Supremes" @11:00. I guess for most drivers in the city, the 1.6mm is OK, but for us "drivers", the 3mm is a good recommendation.
Thanks for the video! Picked up my M2 comp on Saturday and it hasn't stopped raining. Just enjoying taking it easy during the break in period, getting used to the car and respecting it & the conditions. Adjusting from FWD fk8 Type R has been easier than expected because the car feels so composed, but I think I'll wait for dry weather before turning ESC off. May save that for the track.
My M2C arrived yesterday, so loving this type of content. Would also love a video covering your favourite uk roads.
Other things to be mind full of in the wet regarding grip. Iron works (man hole covers and cattle grids). Painted areas of the road.
Also tarmac reflects very little light, so shiny = slippery, limit your inputs to the vehicle and plan ahead.
Manhole covers are honestly one of the most dangerous things in the wet. Find one of those at speed while turning and you'll know about it. Certain placements scare me more than standing water.
So to sum up, you can drive M2 in wet safely if you:
- drive slower than usually in dry (and at higher gears, and keep more distance for longer braking if required)
- are smooth with pedals and steering
- watch out for any skidding traps (potholes etc) and avoid aquaplanning (too high speed on a surface covered with water)
- leave stability systems on
- take care of the car and make sure your tyres thread is still deep enough and that you buy good quality tyres
Nothing that I haven't known, but thanks for showing M2 can be driven safely, cheers!
Top video, picking my M2 comp up on Tuesday, expecting pissing rain so this was reassuring!
You’ll love it David - they’re loads of fun!
@@RegLocal Hi, could you describe what you mean by "fun"?
These are tips not only for a high performance car but for every car, it's very useful. Thanks for those informations!
Great video Reg, and very informative. I use the term to "feather my accelerator" in wet and greasy conditions (not sure its a real term) but the point is I drive my M140i to the conditions of the road. I find it surprising that in this modern era of front wheel. four wheel, or whatever term is used, that people believe that rear wheel cars are challenging and will at some point bite you in the bum. I believe its down to driving skill, and also manufactures spend years testing cars in all weathers before the car is launched. I enjoy immensely driving my car in wet weather and will have a rear wheel drive car over any others, any time
I completely agree with you, reading the road and adapting your driving is all that is needed for most cars. I was out for a run in my M140i with my car club the other day and it was quite damp so definitely warranted extra care whilst driving quicker. Mine is a stage 2+ (485bhp) manual and it definitely commands that you respect it’s power in such a short wheelbase in the wet. All down to the driving skill with regards to attitude and application of inputs.
I run Rainsports on my RWD merc, superb in the wet. I also sack mine off for new at 3mm. I really don't get why people get the cheapest ditch finders, is your life worth 50 quid? Great video as always Reg.
I've never been one for budget tyres; always get the best I can afford. If money is tight and I need new tyres, I'll get something mid-range...typically, I'll only do that if I get a puncture. I've had bad experiences with tyre repairs, so always replace, not repair.
Thanks Reg, I found that very useful; a reminder of the important basics and, as usual with your videos, a couple of points of new learning
Very useful video, Reg! Excellent recommendations! Lots of good points to remember!
Another good reason for using the A/C in damp/wet conditions is that it dries out the car occupants. That's quite handy.
out in Weardale yesterday .. plenty of plenty of practice at driving in the wet!... but the fallen leaves were a far bigger issue than the water!
Ordering it tomorrow thank you Reg
Now...what about one on bikes... food for thought. I remember years ago I bought one from a police motorcyclist called ‘Not the blue book’ made a stunning read.
@15:34 - A courtesy on the road has huge benefits. Both parties get a feedback - everyone likes a "thank you". The highways would be a better place if everyone did this. We are all navigating this world as best we can. If we recognised others, then we could lift up the "happiness" quotient and have a great day. :)
Even though there is traction control I’ve seen a few on TH-cam and one in real life spin out on straight acceleration. I presume it was turned off! I have one myself and never experienced it wanting to swap ends in the dry.
One feature of wet weather is that it seems to make road markings less easy to see and read, particularly if they are worn or poorly maintained. More than once I'm sure I have irritated local drivers by lining up in a left hand lane for a straight ahead exit from a roundabout, only to see, at the last minute that it's a dedicated first exit lane. Recently in Poole I came across a lane which appears to be either a first exit OR a first exit and straight ahead lane depending on whether it is wet or dry. I think that it had been changed on the cheap and painted over.
Great video! Can you advice what do you do to minimize impact when a car hit your from the rear right when there is no clearance on the front and the left?
Great video, many thanks. Would be good if you could get on a wet oily disused airfield etc. and demo that even a really top driver such as yourself can't beat the ESP etc. with it turned off. Other thing might be some more demos of one wheel/side of the car into standing water and video the steering wheel input to show how you control the car. Thanks again.
when do you put winter tyres?
Very, very carefully
The car pulling out in front of you (2:59) after being flashed by the on coming vehicle happened to me a few years ago, the driver of a large 4x4 was flashed by an on coming vehicle to pull out to join the traffic flow. He failed to look right and I was on him (at 35mph in a 40) as he pulled out in front of me and then stopped in a panic. My car was written off and my wife and I sustained minor injuries. I now don’t trust any driver that is waiting to pull out onto the highway and find myself slowing down more than I maybe should or need to. I also try to know eyeball the driver and if I can’t I tend to take on an overly unnecessary avoidance measures. 🤬
5 star Reg.
Thanks for this, Reg; a really helpful summary and reminder. One question about the use of fog lights:
Roadcraft (2020 edition) states (page 75) "When there's fog or falling snow at night, fog lights often give a better view than dipped headlights. Use them if visibility is 100 metres (328 feet) or less."
Does your experience confirm this?
Snowfall which reduces visibility to
Looking forward to the motorcycle in wet conditions video now 😀
Just need to find some way of keeping water off the camera lens Richard!
I've taken to cross climate tyres in the last couple of years; and swear by them. I find they give a little more grip in the icy sludge we tend to get down here in Wiltshire in the winter. As for turning off the stability controls; I've never really seen the need. My car is old, and not particular powerful by modern standards (220bhp), but unless I'm driving in cock mode, I don't see the traction control lights kick in at all.
Thanks Reg
Good vid Reg, for me one of the worst aspects of spray is when it gets so bad that you can't see the car in front, even with their lights on. And you'll still get those idiots who are 1 second behind who are accidents waiting to happen. It's shocking how close a lot will follow in poor conditions... or normal conditions.
Great driving and tips as always - but does staying in a higher gear really achieve much in a modern turbocharged performance car? Doesn't your M2 hit peak torque at just 2350 rpm?
Perhaps I didn’t spend long enough describing the benefits of this approach. In a higher gear, the car is less sensitive to accelerator pedal movements & results in better control through corners in the wet.
I had the same thought... the torque curve is probably flat 2000rpm to 6000 rpm for a modern turbo engine,... but a higher gear will mean a lower torque at the tire
True but wheel torque is what counts here. Wheel torque = engine torque/gear ratio.
What are your thoughts on using cruise control in conditions like on this video? I remember seeing something online about a smashed up car where the driver lost control hitting standing water with cruise control.
IME / IMO, I am fairly happy to use cruise control in poor weather conditions (Of course, There is a point at which full-manual control is needed) - For the most part, Modern cruise control systems will automatically instantly disable should there be a VSA activation, such as due to aquaplaning - I have had this happen (Just driving through a small cross-flow on a motorway), cruise control immediately cancelled, which is about a safe a state as one could ask for.
Pairing cruise control with forward observations and intervening with a lower commanded speed or manual throttle control (Or, braking to disable) allows it to be used to "lighten the load" in a safe way despite conditions.
Good question. In conditions where the road is damp, there should be no problem in using cruise control. The problem comes when the road starts to hold water & puddles of deeper water start to form. Remember my advice in the video about standing water & aquaplaning - if you have to drive through standing water, avoid making any inputs. Cruise control gives a throttle input to the car to maintain speed, so using it runs the risk of inducing a skid if the car starts to aquaplane. Of course, stability systems will step in, but it’s still better avoided.
Trust me mate change to pilot sport 4s so much better. I've got m2c and it came with super sport. When they were finished I changed to rear tyres to ps4s so much better
I also changed my PSS to PS4S on my M2Comp two days ago. In the rain it's an awesome tyre. Grippy, silent. I'm running 500HP/700Nm MHD tune now. No sweat. :) Me in my ex 1M @ Zandvoort: th-cam.com/video/YYUljH6gAjo/w-d-xo.html
Hi Reg, Why do you think mud flaps have disappeared over the years? and did they help with water spray.
Probably a styling thing I think. They never did much on cars & were mostly there to keep the car a bit cleaner, but they make a guge difference on HGVs. It’s actually an offence not to have spray suppression equipment fitted to HGVs in the UK.
Just got my M2 competition but no way In hell am I driving it in the rain. Not because I’m scared, but because I don’t want to get it dirty. It’s my weekend car and I always check the forecast before taking it out :)
No foglights on M2C :P
is "with a big dab of oppo" the answer to the question??? :-)
Sorry commit below is suppose to be on your book news...just watching the one missed it when punished
Always remember, 9 inches isn’t very much.
Tell me about it. "sigh". :)
@@davidf8749 wouldn't any more be painful though or do you just grin and bear it mate?
the girls i used to go out with never complained!
I saw that jeep today with the red headlight surrounds, it threw me slightly, someone should have a word with driver!!,
Wait till its foggy & someone thinks they’re following it!
If you see it again try to get registration number and report to police. Reg, I'm surprised you didn't do that.
Quality driving instruction in a medium powered vehicle
Germans hate sub 3-5mm , they send us to us. Illegal under think 4mm ??? Soft grippy tyre, matched nice.
I owned a 200bhp Caterham 7 for 20 odd years, I would frequently drive it in the wet. I'd tell other owners to as well. Learn how the car behaves
Too long winded.
Aqua planing isn’t an issue until your car realises 🤦♂️lets say your doing 70 mph and it realises it applies traction control your front end dives into the water and your now doing 40mph visibility becomes zero because it’s created a water fall and cars behind you swerve if your lucky 😂
Do you think everyone should understand the system of car control and be tested on road craft prior to the issuing of their driving licence?
@@ldjwalker It should be mandatory before commenting on here..... :)
This also demonstrates how fiddly and fussy and inappropriate his steering technique is.
Sometimes it’s easy to know all the theory without having any actual ability. Until you have those first slides in the wet, learn from it and improve, the theory means nothing. I live where there are no national speed limits and I know a few advanced drivers. I’d only rate one behind the wheel. The rest are self certifying posers. Keen to criticise and belittle but never show and definable skill.
Just to add to this. The advanced driver who I said I rate. He said exactly the same thing about the advanced drivers and no longer associates.
Not a bad video mate, but why would you buy an M2 Competition and always have traction fully on, never even turning it partially off?
May as well just buy an Audi, something like an RS3. Fast, modern, great build quality, safe and boring.
The whole reason you buy an M car is to enjoy having the power at the rear, bringing the back end out if the mood takes you, and keeping you on your toes when you don't want it to come out on you. You have to be mindful of it and respect it, otherwise you end up in a hedge. And that's what makes the cars what they are. Otherwise why wouldn't you just get an Audi?
Not sure if you just said it for the benefit of the video and the audience though. Blink twice if you're under duress.