Who wants to volunteer to join matts housecarls? Matt will buy 30 dane axes and we will in join his retinue and protect him for it! So i volunteer! 29 to go?
Luftetari Ilir I think he doth protest too much, he is probably assembling an elite unit of cohorts as we speak but does not want to tip off The Watchers.
"If fifty people come to you...I won't say there's fifty, but there are quite a lot. If twenty people, and there are twenty. Twenty-to-thirty. If twenty-to-thirty people offer--I'll come back in again." Nobody expects the Dane Axe makers!
Here's an idea: take all the axes, make a video with all of them (analyzing build quality and reproduction accuracy for each), than chose one to keep for yourself and auction off all the others. Balance prices so you can recover all the money you spent on them and donate any profits to a charity of your choice. This way 20 or so blacksmiths will get a chance to be acknowledged on your channel, you get to make some more popular videos, we get the chance to buy a decent Dane axe reproduction and a worthy charity cause may get a useful donation.
20 products will create an inflation? How small is this market? If we consider only Matt's subscribers as potential customers, let's say just 1% of them will count as potential buyers, that's 1720 people, so most of them won't be able to get an axe from the auction. Consequently some of them may chose to order additional replicas from the blacksmiths, giving them more work, not less. I fail to see your point here.
Matt is it possible that the reinforcement was added as a means to prolong the life of an axe whose hardened edges were sharpened/blunted off too much ? Like a Grandfather's axe , whose life was prolonged by simply welding a new edge to an otherwise perfectly fine axe? Have they done the X-Ray testing to check if new edges were tacked on to older ruined ones ? p.s. Will also explain why some had it while some did not. Also it could be an upgrade of a kind to get a thin edged one to start with and tack a reinforced edge reforged on it when you get the money?
sounds plausible but for weapons to see that much use they'd probably have had many owners... more importantly even if a new edge is welded on it doesn't need to be thicker, the fact they were was probably a deliberate choice
Nick L, if you put on a new layer over an existing one, it will be thicker but it also gives the advantage of a wider wedge that will not wear off enough, less sharp but more robust. Over time they possibly perfected it to the diamond edge.
Nick L, yes it might seem they had many owners, or maybe the way they used it was more aggressive causing greater damage to the extra-thin edge and requiring more maintenance, until there was no reasonable amount of hardened edge left. There they would not mind welding a lump of better steel to the remainder of an axe rather than melt the head and reforge it. Seems economical, reasonable and simple to do with basic blacksmithing skills on a mobile campaign.
Such a weld is a common thing in fire welding an egde to a mild steel body. The axe is made from mild steel, the edge is chiselled open and then the carbon steel edge is set in and welded in the forge. This part will always be thicker after the welding. Usually, it is forged down and ground to be invisible. So it might be that the ones with the reinforced edge are cheap ones, or that it was useful, or personal preferrence.
As a blacksmith, my first thought when I saw Matt's picture was, "that's a repair." Not only is it just like the "Grandfather's axe" repair you mention that was extremely common 150 years ago when axes weren't "disposable", there seems to be a slight differential in the weathering pattern that suggests the iron for that thickened section is different than the body (and presumably steel). I suspect the original axe was made with a wrapped eye and the steel bit was enfolded in the wrought iron near the edge while the axe was still fairly thick (see www.geraldboggs.com/Axe_article.pdf). The advantage to this approach (called a cleft weld) is it protects the steel during the weld. Steel is much more susceptible to "burning" than wrought iron, since the carbon lowers steel's melting point. In this case, the thickening is perhaps mere artifact. On the other hand, it is entirely possible this edge is deliberately forged despite a cleft weld. And/or that the original manufacture involved wrapping the steel around the edge rather than a cleft weld at all. I have seen documentation of commercial axe production (early 1900s) that involved a wrapped weld, not a cleft weld. X-ray or other metallurgical testing could tell composition, but unless signs of two forge welds of steel show up (remains of original + repair), there's not really a conclusion to draw. It's very unlikely that any of this is an "upgrade". The cost of forging the reinforced edge originally is minimal and and axe like this without a steel edge would have an impractically soft and bendy edge. However, if any axes did lack a steel edge, then exactly this kind of reinforcement might make them work. I think that unlikely, but if so, these are the "cheap" axes!
I forged an axe about 15 years ago with a wrapped, vs. cleft/inserted, steel edge, and the cross-section came out very much like the reinforced edge shown.
I look forward to seeing the dane ax you will get with the proper specs your looking for!!! Its exciting to see what the finished product is going to be!!!
But then he'd have to find room to store all the housecarls. I mean, housecarls are for keeping them in your house, hence the name. They're like house elves.
So I thought about it for a while. Considering we don't actually know Mat's size because of camera magic, it's possible there is actually enough space to put 20 housecarls behind him with the wall swords and the wallhammer, but I don't think he has enough wall space for hanging 20 housecarls.
Ask for examples of their work. Ask them to describe how they plan their axe to look. Ask how they plan to achieve this. Set up a competition of these proposals and involve us your audience in the choice. On a related note the dane axe( based upon your previous video and the examples in the museum )make me think of the dane axe as more a kin to a saber blade on the end of a pole than the wood chopping tool in my garden shed!
To sort the offers, ask for the ones who are skilled and confident enough to leave the blade raw in its forge scale (except for the bevel, of course). You recognize quality when the attention to detail is paid during the forging, which requires the most rigorous planning. A skilled smith doesn't even need to grind the forged piece clean.
You should make a reality TV show called "Schola Gladiatoria: the Axening", and have all then compete to forge the best dane axe ever. For the judges you can invite Tobias Capwell and rotate among all other weapon youtubers (Skallagrim, Lindybeige, Metatron, etc)
I wonder if the flared edge ,or reinforced edge, would help keep the ax from getting stuck, plus be stronger if hitting something hard, like a iron band on a buckler.
If you email Craig Johnson of Arms and Armor, my guess is that he would gladly make a version of their Dane Axe with a reinforced edge. He's an absolute pleasure to work with and is very accommodating of requests for custom or modified work.
Oh yes , they needed/need to be light enough to make fast follow up strikes , but heavy enough to do the damage that made them the feared weapons that they were . Looking forward to see what you get :) cheers from Denmark.
The thing with the reinforced edge or not, some of them might not even have been heath treated. The exist in a time where unhardened swords where not that uncommon, and where armor was not so common.
Do you think it could be possible the reinforced edge could have made the axe cheaper rather than more expensive? The fact that it'd use much less high quality steel, only on the edge, with most of the axe head iron, might it be that the extra labour and technique needed to construct it like that could have been less costly than using steel the whole way through?
In my opinion you could do your own Dane Axe "Forged in Fire" while giving 'em enough time to make a proper work and you keep the best as a trophy. "Thank you guys you served the community well"
I think the reason why some have reinforced edges and some don't is a simple choice of cost to produce. The rich guy can pay for the good stuff, the poor guy gets the one that breaks easier.
Modern steel means that you don't need the reinforced edge. The whole axe head can be light yet strong. Maybe you still might want a difference between body and edge, but it's not necessary.
Good problem to have, I want 30 Dane axes. On the edges, heard it was to cleave people out from under horses, and it needed to be reinforced to drive through the horses legs, but made the axe heavier. Don't know how true that is. I haven't went over all the saga's but so far, haven't seen any mention of it.
Personally, if you are going to explore possible Dane axe uses, I would like to see a side by side "working" comparison of a good reinforced replica and nonreinforced replica. At least, that would be my suggestion.
Make a competition of it. Have all people send in dane axes and whichever one is the best wins and you feature their axe in a video and give their channel/workshop a shoutout so they can be noticed.
If they are making the axe for Hmb or battle of the nations there is a weight restriction so don't think it would be to heavy but you make a good point about most blacksmiths making it from just a picture.
For some reason I doubt the reinforced edge was separately forge welded on with a higher carbon steel. I don't recall you saying they had analysis on the metal. I'm guessing they were forged to shape and simply deferentially quenched to provide a harder edge. Its much easier to simply dip an axe edge in water (I'm guessing this was before tempering) then it is for swords. Now I'm curious if they quench hardened mace heads...seems reasonable.
Forge welding was known to certain viking smiths for sure, the authentic surviving Ulfbert's show us that. I don't believe it was a skill known to all, or possibly the requisite materials and technology were only available at certain locations. As you say, cost isn't likely to be the case if you're commissioning a weapon for personal use. However, I did wonder if there was information on who bore the cost of a House Carls arms? If it wasn't personal choice it could have been economic necessity, newly outfitting multiple parties.
the differences could simply be attributed to different makers as well. If it's an assemblage of folks for a raid, maybe they came from different towns with different weaponsmiths.
Matt off topic subject . I've been studying and researching medieval and renaissance grappling from the treaties. What I found their are no rear naked choke. The rear strangle hold is a highly effective move , why was it not taught in the old treaties?
I don't know if this is why they are not covered in the books, but in a real life-or-death fight (in my opinion) there is little use for a rear naked choke, because anyone who is behind their opponent can simply hit them on the back of the neck. This is a quicker and more reliable way to 'end them rightly'! When watching contests in MMA (etc) you should remember that some of the most effective fighting techniques are banned, including blows to the back of the head or neck.
It might seem a bit sterile and mightn't be best suited to this situation, but I instantly thought of a tender process. It seems very fair and should get the best bang for your buck, but I'm not sure how well it scales down.
Matt, as a maker of weapons for re-enactment I must say I have found it very hard to get all the specs on original weapons, living in the "New World" we get get access to originals only in limited exhibitions or by traveling long distances. The most important specification is weight and it is most often lacking in written references. I understand exactly what you are saying but the unrealistic construction is a necessary evil. The abuse and punishment re-enactor meatheads (myself included) dish out to their weapons is phenomenal and completely unrealistic. I cringe every time one of my weapons crash down on a helmet not in the least because it is often my helmet. Inspired by you and the other sword You Tubers I am starting to make some sharp, true to original pieces. Your site as well as the work of Roland Warzecha at Dimicator, and all the sword design/dynamics work of Peter Johnson, Vincent Le Chevalier et al, is taking me to new levels. Please keep it coming.
might this be a good way to make reenactment axes better? having a thin body but also a thick edge for safety? not to mention lighter blunt weapons are also safer
What to do with so many of axe choices. 1) You take 5 offers. 2 ) You do an inspection, quality and mild "Abuse" tests on them. 3) You decide what axe you want for your self. 4) Give Away Competition! Each axe and maker get their own video. You review the axes as above and compere them to the price the smiths would normally charge for such a product. As this is a collecable (instead of non-reenactment) you should lay weight on Historical Accuracy and function. This could be supported by Patreon community or by the smiths themselves.
I dont know what reeactmen dane axes you see, but in Poland they quiet light (about 800-1000 gram blade). And most smiths make from schematic from archeological books which is easy to find in internet ;)
First and foremost to look scary, both in battle and in non-combat situations, for example when equipped by huscarls following their lord on more dangerous matters. Additionally, it offers good reach and leverage, so supporting the shieldwall from the second row, and if the warrior is exceedingly well-armored (Varangian guard, for example), to act as shock infantry with quite nimble and a really strong 2-handed weapon. 2-handed weapons are also reasonably effective at keeping several enemies occupied at once, thus being effective in crowd-control and as a bodyguards weapon.
It's good to hear you got some good offers. The axe I suggested from Gransfors Bruks actually does fall within the criteria you laid out with reinforced edge, it's a replica of an axe in the Jämtlands Läns Museum in Östersund. It's out of manufacture, but I just wanted to point out this exception to most retail axes. www.gransforsbruk.com/app/uploads/2014/11/507_4-1024x730.jpg
I don't recognize this at all? The ones we, well most of us at least, use here in Denmark for reenactment/competitive fighting are lightweight, it's a 30/30/30 split between complete taper, reinforced edge, and hollowed w/ a cross. I know Barry Gaynor from Fingal Living History Society in Swords/Dublin carry ones like'em as well, if you're looking for something "closer to home"?
the thumbnail image made me think there was going to be more detailed discussion of specific measurements... *is mildly disappointed* Here's hoping for that in future videos though!
Question: Whose personal preference? I'm just wondering if you think it would be entirely the preference of the buyer, or the maker. Ok, the answer will almost certainly be, "A bit of both," but hearing some thoughts on it is never a bad thing. I would imagine that for every person with such exacting specifications as a thin and light or reinforced for their personally ordered, bespoke weapon, there's like 20 guys who said, "Gimme an' axe, I got stuff to pillage," and walked off with 'an axe' where the specifications of the head were just whatever that particular weaponmaker thinks is best (and possibly even argue with each other about like we would!).
I know you haven’t said this and alluded to payment for a previous axe, but I really hope you’re wanting to pay for this! I’d hate to think you were doing the old ‘do this for free, the exposure will be great’ routine. If someone sends you something for free which I know sometimes happens to you that’s their choice, but asking for it is completely different. People need to make a living. Very sorry if I’ve misread this situation.
Ian Alexander I'm fairly sure that's not the case. In addition to teaching and TH-cam-ing, the man buys and sells antique arms. I wouldn't want to say he's rich because that's unfair and he's worked hard online and offline to achieve his modest success. However, he has approached other arms makers with commissions, and one gave him a refund after they realised they couldn't deliver what he was after. It's simply a matter of finding somebody sufficiently competent to do a contracted piece of work as all other paths have failed him and TH-cam is a good place to network, in some senses.
Take them and donate the money from the sells. To all those kind smiths you should offer to review, and give the money as a donation to i.E. the British Museum. It seems like a fair deal, you get to actually look and compare stuff (and maybe have surprising insights you would miss otherwise) and the smiths get all the exposure, also the buyers would know their money is for a good cause. WIN-WIN-WIN imo. =)
A very specialized custom-made axeblade is not trivially cheap, and an authentic dane axe blade happens to be fairly uncommon. Buying some 30 pieces might not be financially viable, as not many people can just spend several grands on a whim. I'd say that some $300 per blade would be a rather conservative price considering the requirements, likely higher, and Matt had some 20-30 potential candidates. In short, you're asking Matt to just take a $9000 punch to the chin and smile brightly afterwards. As for the smiths, exposure doesn't pay the bills. Orders do. It would be VERY entitled and frankly unreasonable to expect that most of the smiths capable of fulfilling this order would be willing to do it for free.
Thanks for the video, and hope you get a great axe out of this. One little point - you dismiss the idea that the reinforced edges were sometimes left off because of expense; this does not seem correct. As far as I know, the reinforced edges on those axes, like on many swords of the time period, are made of much higher quality metal than the rest of the blade, and in swords as well it's not always done. It seems likely that the higher quality metal used for these edges was in rather short supply, not always available, and very expensive when it could be obtained. So an axe (or sword) which lacked this type of edging would have been significantly less expensive, and perhaps, depending on the time and place, the only option available.
Have you ever made something like an Axe, Sword, Bow or Shield? Even a pretty basic Shield is at least one day of work, maybe even two (from cutting the planks to shape to the finished shield), an Axe is no different. Especially a Dane axe like the one he wants, because it requires to grind the blade twice, and grinding still is most the work you do on stuff made from metal or wood. making 30 crude Axes is not that hard, you just cut out an axe blade out of steel, throw it under the Hydraulic press a few times, bevel the edge, sharpen it kinda and off you go, but I don't think that is what Matt wants.
Take them all. Make a competition and keep the best one for yourself. Sell the others for charity. If you won't be able to sell all of the 50 dane axes (maybe not 50, maybe 20 to 30) then you can give them away or you can just have a really cool looking collection. I don't think the people making them will mind since you can make a video promoting and reviewing them.
How do you know the high carbon steel was forged onto the axes. Couldn't they have through hardened the iron. Like shown in this video: th-cam.com/video/V_Mp1fNzIT8/w-d-xo.html In the video it shows that if you leave the blade long enough, in the fire with the carbon paste, the carbon will eventually fully soak into the iron. You could do it on the axe blade but only put the carbon paste on the part you want the high carbon steel to be in.
More of a general smithing idea - dead men tell no tales? I'd gues they weren't above skimping on their work if they could tell the buyer didn't know much about weapons or died soon after the weapon broke. Good practice would be asking the buyer if they wanted something like the reinforcement but depending on the *context* the smith might not bother asking?
I'm a blacksmith but not a bladesmith. I want a REAL Dane axe with a reinforced edge. I'm 6'-4" tall at 287lbs. This is my weapon of choice! Especially as I'm 100% Norse decent. How can I find the right person for the job? Thanks.
You should take all 20 - 30 of them, keep ~5 or so and review them (thoroughly), take the rest and send off to people like Lloyd, Metatron, Skallagrim, ThegnThrand, etc. for review with the caveat that they must pass them on to someone else on the list until everybody has the chance to get their hands on and review all of the axes. At the end, each reviewer may keep an axe of their choice and the rest get sold/auctioned off.
It would be great to stoke the embers of our ancient history here in the UK. All to often nowadays its deemed unfashionable and at worse un PC to be proud of ones ancestry and history.... please, please do more videos on Anglo Saxon weapons and fighting techniques of the age.
How can you be proud of something you had no part in facilitating? I get being proud of one's own achievements. I get being a fan of one's "own" history. I get being interested in one's family's past. But being proud of it? How?
There use to be a time when the concept was universally understood, but I appreciate that nowadays in popular culture definitions are often blurred, redrawn or shunned. Pride in your own country, pride in its values... even 'dirty word' flag! I see no conflict in having 'Pride' in others achievements as well as your own or those close to you. You can of course be proud of a wife giving birth to your child, whilst having very little to do with the biological process of the giving birth (apart from the 5 minutes or so 9 months previous ;) ). You can of course be proud in the form of pleasing admiration of the achievements of others perceived as connected to you. I can of course be proud of the achievements and history of a people who gave the world much, proud of course via a cultural connection with the very same people who amongst many things forged England, gave us the English Language and even the word 'pride' in the first place!
What are you on about? Who is attacking you? Matt just made this video. Was it banned? Was it un-PC? The museum of london has the axes up on display. Wheres the outcry? Where are the hordes of shrieking SJWs demanding that it be replaced? The british museum has the entire Sutton Hoo treasure on display. You arent being oppressed. Youre just moaning and creating an enemy "other".
Urrmmmm okay, my OP merely said please do more vids on the Anglo Saxons as I feel they are under-represented (due to modern values) in today's UK and the role they played in forging it. I was then asked how can someone be proud of that part of History/Culture having no active role in it. I answered! I didn't feel attacked by Moonface in anyway. As for being oppressed I dont personally feel oppressed but other TH-camrs have been infamously banned for 'Un PC' Weapon/Historical content recently, you should check out the saga of ThegnThrand. ;)
urm ok so there is plenty of anglo saxon material being produced in major forums like the british museum but you are still trying to argue that the PC fascists are oppressing you and saxon history? And your support for this is thegn thrands channel which was not only reinstated but was (wrongly, fair enough) shut down for unsafe practices and nothing to do with being PC. The videos were about asian history so nothing at all to do with the saxons.
I don't think it's in way disrespectful of the craft to ask for experience in precisely the style Dane axe you want, and ask for photos of past work as verification. And then get a price bid.
@Matt Easton (scholagladiatoria) You should reach out to Alec Steele and see if he is interested in putting together a cross-promotional collaboration with you. I would love to see him make something to your specifications, and for you to then evaluate the effort compared to antique examples. If the Dane axe isn't an option, you might be able to sell him on the notion of trying to recreate Wootz steel and forge out a tulwar from it.
you could say yes to all of them.....and maybe send me one!! 😂😂 nawww im kidding.....but it is quite the conumdrum....which to choose? you could allow them all to make them, then show and compare them on the channel and perhaps do a charity raffle or something to get rid of them? (I don't know the legality of that though.....) im sure all the peeps who offered to make them will be happy to! and it would be interesting to see you compare them and give your opinions on which are best aesthetically, ergonomically, and historically......but yeah....just throwing and idea out there ✌😌
It's not just that the modern 'Dane axe' reproductions are too heavy with blades that are too thick and clumsy. Let's just start with the fact that nobody called these things a 'Dane axe' until the middle ages. During the viking age they were known as 'breiðöx' (broadaxe) and they were basically in the same size class as a lumberjack's two handed axe, something you can comfortably swing with two hands. The breiðöx of the viking age was around 20-25cm long and around 18-22 cm broad with a shaft about 80-110 cm long, it came in a large variety of shapes and was used like an axe, it was not a pole-arm. The re-enactment 'Dane axes' of today with 2 meter long shafts are nothing like the originals and have little in common with the historic breiðöx other than the general shape of the axe head. Re-enactment 'Dane axes' are more like medieval pole axes than anything else and the fighting style owes much more to the way pole axes and halberds were used than the historic breiðöx. Recommended reading: sagy.vikingove.cz/tag/danish-axe/
Who wants to volunteer to join matts housecarls? Matt will buy 30 dane axes and we will in join his retinue and protect him for it! So i volunteer! 29 to go?
Luftetari Ilir I think he doth protest too much, he is probably assembling an elite unit of cohorts as we speak but does not want to tip off The Watchers.
Aye! Lets do this!
I'm not joining unless he ALSO gives me a byrnie, a sword, a horse and some arm-rings.
And my axe! ..wait
Luftetari Ilir I'm in! For King Harold!
"If fifty people come to you...I won't say there's fifty, but there are quite a lot.
If twenty people, and there are twenty. Twenty-to-thirty.
If twenty-to-thirty people offer--I'll come back in again."
Nobody expects the Dane Axe makers!
lol
There's so many of them that you need to funnel them through a bridge in order to properly fend them off with a Dane Axe.
Let's forgive his Trump-talk.
Their chief weapon is...well, what do you think?
+Mika Luostarinen I just cringed.
Here's an idea: take all the axes, make a video with all of them (analyzing build quality and reproduction accuracy for each), than chose one to keep for yourself and auction off all the others. Balance prices so you can recover all the money you spent on them and donate any profits to a charity of your choice. This way 20 or so blacksmiths will get a chance to be acknowledged on your channel, you get to make some more popular videos, we get the chance to buy a decent Dane axe reproduction and a worthy charity cause may get a useful donation.
Forged in Fire: UK Edition?
That would totally destroy the dane axe market and cause a huge inflation that would put literally tens of smiths out of work
20 products will create an inflation? How small is this market?
If we consider only Matt's subscribers as potential customers, let's say just 1% of them will count as potential buyers, that's 1720 people, so most of them won't be able to get an axe from the auction. Consequently some of them may chose to order additional replicas from the blacksmiths, giving them more work, not less. I fail to see your point here.
I'm gonna make one! ... for myself. :)
+Vladimir Efimov I think he was making a "joke".
Matt is it possible that the reinforcement was added as a means to prolong the life of an axe whose hardened edges were sharpened/blunted off too much ? Like a Grandfather's axe , whose life was prolonged by simply welding a new edge to an otherwise perfectly fine axe? Have they done the X-Ray testing to check if new edges were tacked on to older ruined ones ?
p.s. Will also explain why some had it while some did not. Also it could be an upgrade of a kind to get a thin edged one to start with and tack a reinforced edge reforged on it when you get the money?
sounds plausible but for weapons to see that much use they'd probably have had many owners... more importantly even if a new edge is welded on it doesn't need to be thicker, the fact they were was probably a deliberate choice
Nick L, if you put on a new layer over an existing one, it will be thicker but it also gives the advantage of a wider wedge that will not wear off enough, less sharp but more robust. Over time they possibly perfected it to the diamond edge.
Nick L, yes it might seem they had many owners, or maybe the way they used it was more aggressive causing greater damage to the extra-thin edge and requiring more maintenance, until there was no reasonable amount of hardened edge left. There they would not mind welding a lump of better steel to the remainder of an axe rather than melt the head and reforge it. Seems economical, reasonable and simple to do with basic blacksmithing skills on a mobile campaign.
Such a weld is a common thing in fire welding an egde to a mild steel body. The axe is made from mild steel, the edge is chiselled open and then the carbon steel edge is set in and welded in the forge. This part will always be thicker after the welding. Usually, it is forged down and ground to be invisible. So it might be that the ones with the reinforced edge are cheap ones, or that it was useful, or personal preferrence.
As a blacksmith, my first thought when I saw Matt's picture was, "that's a repair." Not only is it just like the "Grandfather's axe" repair you mention that was extremely common 150 years ago when axes weren't "disposable", there seems to be a slight differential in the weathering pattern that suggests the iron for that thickened section is different than the body (and presumably steel). I suspect the original axe was made with a wrapped eye and the steel bit was enfolded in the wrought iron near the edge while the axe was still fairly thick (see www.geraldboggs.com/Axe_article.pdf). The advantage to this approach (called a cleft weld) is it protects the steel during the weld. Steel is much more susceptible to "burning" than wrought iron, since the carbon lowers steel's melting point. In this case, the thickening is perhaps mere artifact.
On the other hand, it is entirely possible this edge is deliberately forged despite a cleft weld. And/or that the original manufacture involved wrapping the steel around the edge rather than a cleft weld at all. I have seen documentation of commercial axe production (early 1900s) that involved a wrapped weld, not a cleft weld.
X-ray or other metallurgical testing could tell composition, but unless signs of two forge welds of steel show up (remains of original + repair), there's not really a conclusion to draw.
It's very unlikely that any of this is an "upgrade". The cost of forging the reinforced edge originally is minimal and and axe like this without a steel edge would have an impractically soft and bendy edge. However, if any axes did lack a steel edge, then exactly this kind of reinforcement might make them work. I think that unlikely, but if so, these are the "cheap" axes!
If you hang the swords behind you in an x pattern, would it be called a kris-cross?
Yes, and they will start singing "Jump".
; D
And will it rockya
I forged an axe about 15 years ago with a wrapped, vs. cleft/inserted, steel edge, and the cross-section came out very much like the reinforced edge shown.
I look forward to seeing the dane ax you will get with the proper specs your looking for!!! Its exciting to see what the finished product is going to be!!!
What do you mean, you can't keep 20 to 30 dane axes? You can't possibly have too many dane axes!
I'd feel guilty!
scholagladiatoria You just need to get yourself some housecarls.
But then he'd have to find room to store all the housecarls. I mean, housecarls are for keeping them in your house, hence the name. They're like house elves.
When the Zombies invade Matt can feed them in a rotary axe thrower powered by submissive - allied zombie hamster wheels.
So I thought about it for a while. Considering we don't actually know Mat's size because of camera magic, it's possible there is actually enough space to put 20 housecarls behind him with the wall swords and the wallhammer, but I don't think he has enough wall space for hanging 20 housecarls.
Clearly the solution is to get yourself those 20-30 Dane Axes and find yourself some Housecarls!
Cool video and thanks for sharing scholagladiators
Ask for examples of their work. Ask them to describe how they plan their axe to look. Ask how they plan to achieve this. Set up a competition of these proposals and involve us your audience in the choice.
On a related note the dane axe( based upon your previous video and the examples in the museum )make me think of the dane axe as more a kin to a saber blade on the end of a pole than the wood chopping tool in my garden shed!
To sort the offers, ask for the ones who are skilled and confident enough to leave the blade raw in its forge scale (except for the bevel, of course). You recognize quality when the attention to detail is paid during the forging, which requires the most rigorous planning. A skilled smith doesn't even need to grind the forged piece clean.
You should make a reality TV show called "Schola Gladiatoria: the Axening", and have all then compete to forge the best dane axe ever. For the judges you can invite Tobias Capwell and rotate among all other weapon youtubers (Skallagrim, Lindybeige, Metatron, etc)
The axening rofl.
the video quality is very good Matt .
Equip your Housecarls with them! :D
613 The Evil i volunteer to join as a huskarl if you provide a dane axe!
If I only had such problems like too much people wanna send me axes...
Well I suppose it boils down to how they want to send those axes. I can imagine that getting axes thrown at you can be a bit of an inconvenience.
I 'd love to have a daneaxe with the reinforcement created in a way to blunten it, but correct in size, weight, and balance.
I wonder if the flared edge ,or reinforced edge, would help keep the ax from getting stuck, plus be stronger if hitting something hard, like a iron band on a buckler.
An Iberian cork axe is quite similar. ..It is used to peel off the cork and is thin and wide.
If you email Craig Johnson of Arms and Armor, my guess is that he would gladly make a version of their Dane Axe with a reinforced edge. He's an absolute pleasure to work with and is very accommodating of requests for custom or modified work.
You're welcome, friend!
Oh yes , they needed/need to be light enough to make fast follow up strikes , but heavy enough to do the damage that made them the feared weapons that they were . Looking forward to see what you get :) cheers from Denmark.
The thing with the reinforced edge or not, some of them might not even have been heath treated. The exist in a time where unhardened swords where not that uncommon, and where armor was not so common.
Do you think it could be possible the reinforced edge could have made the axe cheaper rather than more expensive? The fact that it'd use much less high quality steel, only on the edge, with most of the axe head iron, might it be that the extra labour and technique needed to construct it like that could have been less costly than using steel the whole way through?
In my opinion you could do your own Dane Axe "Forged in Fire" while giving 'em enough time to make a proper work and you keep the best as a trophy. "Thank you guys you served the community well"
If you sell them I'll definitely buy one
I think the reason why some have reinforced edges and some don't is a simple choice of cost to produce. The rich guy can pay for the good stuff, the poor guy gets the one that breaks easier.
Modern steel means that you don't need the reinforced edge. The whole axe head can be light yet strong. Maybe you still might want a difference between body and edge, but it's not necessary.
Good problem to have, I want 30 Dane axes. On the edges, heard it was to cleave people out from under horses, and it needed to be reinforced to drive through the horses legs, but made the axe heavier. Don't know how true that is. I haven't went over all the saga's but so far, haven't seen any mention of it.
Could the difference between non/reinforced edges stem from different smithy traditions or skillsets?
Personally, if you are going to explore possible Dane axe uses, I would like to see a side by side "working" comparison of a good reinforced replica and nonreinforced replica. At least, that would be my suggestion.
I still can't stop staring at those wAaAaAaAvy swords on the wall.
You got such a response because we all want to convert you to the early medieval era.
Make a competition of it. Have all people send in dane axes and whichever one is the best wins and you feature their axe in a video and give their channel/workshop a shoutout so they can be noticed.
And send the losers back their axes.
Have a dane axe off. Test them all pick the best. Thats would be a series I'd watch.
How can you miss out on this opportunity to open a dane axe shop
If they are making the axe for Hmb or battle of the nations there is a weight restriction so don't think it would be to heavy but you make a good point about most blacksmiths making it from just a picture.
For some reason I doubt the reinforced edge was separately forge welded on with a higher carbon steel. I don't recall you saying they had analysis on the metal. I'm guessing they were forged to shape and simply deferentially quenched to provide a harder edge. Its much easier to simply dip an axe edge in water (I'm guessing this was before tempering) then it is for swords. Now I'm curious if they quench hardened mace heads...seems reasonable.
Could you quench an edge using ice?
Forge welding was known to certain viking smiths for sure, the authentic surviving Ulfbert's show us that. I don't believe it was a skill known to all, or possibly the requisite materials and technology were only available at certain locations. As you say, cost isn't likely to be the case if you're commissioning a weapon for personal use. However, I did wonder if there was information on who bore the cost of a House Carls arms? If it wasn't personal choice it could have been economic necessity, newly outfitting multiple parties.
the differences could simply be attributed to different makers as well. If it's an assemblage of folks for a raid, maybe they came from different towns with different weaponsmiths.
Could you post a link to your picture with measurements? That would help making one... 😆
Scholagladiatoria Huscarl Axes for sale! 20-30 sounds like a GREAT idea to me.
Matt off topic subject . I've been studying and researching medieval and renaissance grappling from the treaties. What I found their are no rear naked choke. The rear strangle hold is a highly effective move , why was it not taught in the old treaties?
Andy Wilson
It may be presupsed knowledge (siblings and populations if boys are grate at grappling practice)
I don't know if this is why they are not covered in the books, but in a real life-or-death fight (in my opinion) there is little use for a rear naked choke, because anyone who is behind their opponent can simply hit them on the back of the neck. This is a quicker and more reliable way to 'end them rightly'! When watching contests in MMA (etc) you should remember that some of the most effective fighting techniques are banned, including blows to the back of the head or neck.
You can ship some of them as a give away.
RE: The reinforced edge - might it not be because of differences between given smiths? Both in preferances and skills?
It might seem a bit sterile and mightn't be best suited to this situation, but I instantly thought of a tender process. It seems very fair and should get the best bang for your buck, but I'm not sure how well it scales down.
Matt, as a maker of weapons for re-enactment I must say I have found it very hard to get all the specs on original weapons, living in the "New World" we get get access to originals only in limited exhibitions or by traveling long distances. The most important specification is weight and it is most often lacking in written references. I understand exactly what you are saying but the unrealistic construction is a necessary evil. The abuse and punishment re-enactor meatheads (myself included) dish out to their weapons is phenomenal and completely unrealistic. I cringe every time one of my weapons crash down on a helmet not in the least because it is often my helmet. Inspired by you and the other sword You Tubers I am starting to make some sharp, true to original pieces. Your site as well as the work of Roland Warzecha at Dimicator, and all the sword design/dynamics work of Peter Johnson, Vincent Le Chevalier et al, is taking me to new levels. Please keep it coming.
might this be a good way to make reenactment axes better? having a thin body but also a thick edge for safety? not to mention lighter blunt weapons are also safer
Have them all make the axes, and do a competition to see which is best :P
Falling a sleep to a TH-camr at times
Whoever you buy from, please let us know. I have been looking for a historically accurate Dane axe for some time.
That would be really helpful indeed.
Whatever I get sent, I will certainly review.
Am I mistakenly remembering Tod of Tod's stuff making a Dane axe once?
If he hasn't, wouldn't he be a good enough weaponsmith?
The reinforced edges were almost
Certainly cheaper
Sorry, not cheaper
Thanks you helped me sleep ,,,,, ..... , 😌
0:53 Ideas involving building longships and sailing off blundering Europe?
You could blunder Europe, but i'd rather plunder it ;)
*massive blushing for typo*
Lol
You could recruit Boris. I think he'd be pretty good at blundering Europe.
Id rather arquebus europe.
It would make sense that you would want them very light if you were going to be carrying them around day in and day out while guarding someone.
So will you do your own Forged in Fire?
What to do with so many of axe choices.
1) You take 5 offers.
2 ) You do an inspection, quality and mild "Abuse" tests on them.
3) You decide what axe you want for your self.
4) Give Away Competition!
Each axe and maker get their own video. You review the axes as above and compere them to the price the smiths would normally charge for such a product.
As this is a collecable (instead of non-reenactment) you should lay weight on Historical Accuracy and function.
This could be supported by Patreon community or by the smiths themselves.
I dont know what reeactmen dane axes you see, but in Poland they quiet light (about 800-1000 gram blade). And most smiths make from schematic from archeological books which is easy to find in internet ;)
Can you talk about the context you think the Dane axes would be used in?
First and foremost to look scary, both in battle and in non-combat situations, for example when equipped by huscarls following their lord on more dangerous matters. Additionally, it offers good reach and leverage, so supporting the shieldwall from the second row, and if the warrior is exceedingly well-armored (Varangian guard, for example), to act as shock infantry with quite nimble and a really strong 2-handed weapon. 2-handed weapons are also reasonably effective at keeping several enemies occupied at once, thus being effective in crowd-control and as a bodyguards weapon.
More axes for Mattman. Have you tried Lucius Fox?
Have the 20 axes made, and then make a competition?
Time to make a x factor dane axe addition
It's good to hear you got some good offers. The axe I suggested from Gransfors Bruks actually does fall within the criteria you laid out with reinforced edge, it's a replica of an axe in the Jämtlands Läns Museum in Östersund. It's out of manufacture, but I just wanted to point out this exception to most retail axes. www.gransforsbruk.com/app/uploads/2014/11/507_4-1024x730.jpg
So how much do you estimate the ideal dane ax head to weigh (in your case)?
I don't recognize this at all? The ones we, well most of us at least, use here in Denmark for reenactment/competitive fighting are lightweight, it's a 30/30/30 split between complete taper, reinforced edge, and hollowed w/ a cross. I know Barry Gaynor from Fingal Living History Society in Swords/Dublin carry ones like'em as well, if you're looking for something "closer to home"?
Paul Binns makes some like you describe.
the thumbnail image made me think there was going to be more detailed discussion of specific measurements... *is mildly disappointed* Here's hoping for that in future videos though!
Question: Whose personal preference? I'm just wondering if you think it would be entirely the preference of the buyer, or the maker. Ok, the answer will almost certainly be, "A bit of both," but hearing some thoughts on it is never a bad thing.
I would imagine that for every person with such exacting specifications as a thin and light or reinforced for their personally ordered, bespoke weapon, there's like 20 guys who said, "Gimme an' axe, I got stuff to pillage," and walked off with 'an axe' where the specifications of the head were just whatever that particular weaponmaker thinks is best (and possibly even argue with each other about like we would!).
Ask four different people to make you an axe and you got yourself a forged in fire competition
I know you haven’t said this and alluded to payment for a previous axe, but I really hope you’re wanting to pay for this!
I’d hate to think you were doing the old ‘do this for free, the exposure will be great’ routine.
If someone sends you something for free which I know sometimes happens to you that’s their choice, but asking for it is completely different. People need to make a living. Very sorry if I’ve misread this situation.
Ian Alexander I'm fairly sure that's not the case. In addition to teaching and TH-cam-ing, the man buys and sells antique arms. I wouldn't want to say he's rich because that's unfair and he's worked hard online and offline to achieve his modest success. However, he has approached other arms makers with commissions, and one gave him a refund after they realised they couldn't deliver what he was after. It's simply a matter of finding somebody sufficiently competent to do a contracted piece of work as all other paths have failed him and TH-cam is a good place to network, in some senses.
Take them and donate the money from the sells. To all those kind smiths you should offer to review, and give the money as a donation to i.E. the British Museum. It seems like a fair deal, you get to actually look and compare stuff (and maybe have surprising insights you would miss otherwise) and the smiths get all the exposure, also the buyers would know their money is for a good cause. WIN-WIN-WIN imo. =)
A very specialized custom-made axeblade is not trivially cheap, and an authentic dane axe blade happens to be fairly uncommon. Buying some 30 pieces might not be financially viable, as not many people can just spend several grands on a whim. I'd say that some $300 per blade would be a rather conservative price considering the requirements, likely higher, and Matt had some 20-30 potential candidates. In short, you're asking Matt to just take a $9000 punch to the chin and smile brightly afterwards.
As for the smiths, exposure doesn't pay the bills. Orders do. It would be VERY entitled and frankly unreasonable to expect that most of the smiths capable of fulfilling this order would be willing to do it for free.
Since you're paying for it, tell them to send pics of their previous work. Judge the best quality & there's your smith.
Thanks for the video, and hope you get a great axe out of this. One little point - you dismiss the idea that the reinforced edges were sometimes left off because of expense; this does not seem correct. As far as I know, the reinforced edges on those axes, like on many swords of the time period, are made of much higher quality metal than the rest of the blade, and in swords as well it's not always done. It seems likely that the higher quality metal used for these edges was in rather short supply, not always available, and very expensive when it could be obtained. So an axe (or sword) which lacked this type of edging would have been significantly less expensive, and perhaps, depending on the time and place, the only option available.
Can you give a link to the picture on your thumbnail?
Mat, you can get 20 Dane axes made , and then make the video i requested years ago, about how having multiple arms makes one a more effective fighter.
You should make all 30 and give em away...
...also you can raffle your sword collection off and sell your house for charity.
lol
Have you ever made something like an Axe, Sword, Bow or Shield? Even a pretty basic Shield is at least one day of work, maybe even two (from cutting the planks to shape to the finished shield), an Axe is no different. Especially a Dane axe like the one he wants, because it requires to grind the blade twice, and grinding still is most the work you do on stuff made from metal or wood. making 30 crude Axes is not that hard, you just cut out an axe blade out of steel, throw it under the Hydraulic press a few times, bevel the edge, sharpen it kinda and off you go, but I don't think that is what Matt wants.
Daneaxe deathmatch?
never made swords,played with bionicles and trying to get back in,so I think building a light axe with short head and easy shape should do.
Take them all. Make a competition and keep the best one for yourself. Sell the others for charity. If you won't be able to sell all of the 50 dane axes (maybe not 50, maybe 20 to 30) then you can give them away or you can just have a really cool looking collection. I don't think the people making them will mind since you can make a video promoting and reviewing them.
Dane Axe Contest?
How do you know the high carbon steel was forged onto the axes. Couldn't they have through hardened the iron. Like shown in this video: th-cam.com/video/V_Mp1fNzIT8/w-d-xo.html
In the video it shows that if you leave the blade long enough, in the fire with the carbon paste, the carbon will eventually fully soak into the iron. You could do it on the axe blade but only put the carbon paste on the part you want the high carbon steel to be in.
Yo Matt, are you establishing a housecarl retinue at least???
Where did your family get that Mary Rose sword?
Armour Class, but I do not recommend it.
20-30 dane axes you can't possibly keep.
My mind does not understand this concept. I am very confused
Contact A&A and they will probably make it for you.
More of a general smithing idea - dead men tell no tales? I'd gues they weren't above skimping on their work if they could tell the buyer didn't know much about weapons or died soon after the weapon broke. Good practice would be asking the buyer if they wanted something like the reinforcement but depending on the *context* the smith might not bother asking?
Random drawing?
Keep 2 and sell the rest on consignment of course!
I'm a blacksmith but not a bladesmith. I want a REAL Dane axe with a reinforced edge. I'm 6'-4" tall at 287lbs. This is my weapon of choice! Especially as I'm 100% Norse decent. How can I find the right person for the job? Thanks.
You should take all 20 - 30 of them, keep ~5 or so and review them (thoroughly), take the rest and send off to people like Lloyd, Metatron, Skallagrim, ThegnThrand, etc. for review with the caveat that they must pass them on to someone else on the list until everybody has the chance to get their hands on and review all of the axes. At the end, each reviewer may keep an axe of their choice and the rest get sold/auctioned off.
It would be great to stoke the embers of our ancient history here in the UK. All to often nowadays its deemed unfashionable and at worse un PC to be proud of ones ancestry and history.... please, please do more videos on Anglo Saxon weapons and fighting techniques of the age.
How can you be proud of something you had no part in facilitating? I get being proud of one's own achievements. I get being a fan of one's "own" history. I get being interested in one's family's past. But being proud of it? How?
There use to be a time when the concept was universally understood, but I appreciate that nowadays in popular culture definitions are often blurred, redrawn or shunned. Pride in your own country, pride in its values... even 'dirty word' flag! I see no conflict in having 'Pride' in others achievements as well as your own or those close to you. You can of course be proud of a wife giving birth to your child, whilst having very little to do with the biological process of the giving birth (apart from the 5 minutes or so 9 months previous ;) ). You can of course be proud in the form of pleasing admiration of the achievements of others perceived as connected to you. I can of course be proud of the achievements and history of a people who gave the world much, proud of course via a cultural connection with the very same people who amongst many things forged England, gave us the English Language and even the word 'pride' in the first place!
What are you on about? Who is attacking you? Matt just made this video. Was it banned? Was it un-PC? The museum of london has the axes up on display. Wheres the outcry? Where are the hordes of shrieking SJWs demanding that it be replaced? The british museum has the entire Sutton Hoo treasure on display.
You arent being oppressed. Youre just moaning and creating an enemy "other".
Urrmmmm okay, my OP merely said please do more vids on the Anglo Saxons as I feel they are under-represented (due to modern values) in today's UK and the role they played in forging it. I was then asked how can someone be proud of that part of History/Culture having no active role in it. I answered! I didn't feel attacked by Moonface in anyway. As for being oppressed I dont personally feel oppressed but other TH-camrs have been infamously banned for 'Un PC' Weapon/Historical content recently, you should check out the saga of ThegnThrand. ;)
urm ok so there is plenty of anglo saxon material being produced in major forums like the british museum but you are still trying to argue that the PC fascists are oppressing you and saxon history? And your support for this is thegn thrands channel which was not only reinstated but was (wrongly, fair enough) shut down for unsafe practices and nothing to do with being PC. The videos were about asian history so nothing at all to do with the saxons.
I don't think it's in way disrespectful of the craft to ask for experience in precisely the style Dane axe you want, and ask for photos of past work as verification. And then get a price bid.
What to do with 30 to 40 Dane axes? I feel a visit to Lindisfarne is in order 😈
His ears are those of an elf.
Dane ax "cook off" test them pick the best for you.
You should do a colab with Rowan Taylor. He's your countryman after all. :)
www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=m.th-cam.com/users/RowanTaylor&ved=0ahUKEwjF2Yn75sDXAhUS0mMKHVTGBIEQFggnMAI&usg=AOvVaw3VJ4c64E1twMWeLqMNVZua
@Matt Easton (scholagladiatoria)
You should reach out to Alec Steele and see if he is interested in putting together a cross-promotional collaboration with you. I would love to see him make something to your specifications, and for you to then evaluate the effort compared to antique examples. If the Dane axe isn't an option, you might be able to sell him on the notion of trying to recreate Wootz steel and forge out a tulwar from it.
you could say yes to all of them.....and maybe send me one!! 😂😂 nawww im kidding.....but it is quite the conumdrum....which to choose? you could allow them all to make them, then show and compare them on the channel and perhaps do a charity raffle or something to get rid of them? (I don't know the legality of that though.....) im sure all the peeps who offered to make them will be happy to! and it would be interesting to see you compare them and give your opinions on which are best aesthetically, ergonomically, and historically......but yeah....just throwing and idea out there ✌😌
It's not just that the modern 'Dane axe' reproductions are too heavy with blades that are too thick and clumsy. Let's just start with the fact that nobody called these things a 'Dane axe' until the middle ages. During the viking age they were known as 'breiðöx' (broadaxe) and they were basically in the same size class as a lumberjack's two handed axe, something you can comfortably swing with two hands. The breiðöx of the viking age was around 20-25cm long and around 18-22 cm broad with a shaft about 80-110 cm long, it came in a large variety of shapes and was used like an axe, it was not a pole-arm. The re-enactment 'Dane axes' of today with 2 meter long shafts are nothing like the originals and have little in common with the historic breiðöx other than the general shape of the axe head. Re-enactment 'Dane axes' are more like medieval pole axes than anything else and the fighting style owes much more to the way pole axes and halberds were used than the historic breiðöx. Recommended reading:
sagy.vikingove.cz/tag/danish-axe/