Hi William. Interesting subject. I trawled my first manuscript around the publishers and agents for six months. I discovered that since I am neither a TV Personality, a recovering pop-star, or a minor royal with a chip on my shoulder, no-one was interested. Now, I recognise that the book may not have been any good, but I became so despondent and disillusioned that the industry appears to have a river of gold flowing past their offices, and for the most part, they choose to ignore it. So I self-published. As you say, it was pretty straight forward, and I learned a great deal (via editors/proofreaders/cover designers etc). Now I haven't sold a heap, but that wasn't my objective. Since then, I have published a second and am currently writing my third and fourth. So tally-ho!
Someone recently sent around the manuscript to "Pride and Prejudice" and got nothing but rejections. And depressingly, only one publisher recognised the book. It's a funny world.
Hi William... Enjoyed your thoughts on this. I also find it a contentious subject. 2 comments to depress. At the National Writers Conference a couple of years ago, a publicist for a digital first publisher gave a speech and at the end I spoke to her and asked, 'So you're saying excellent publicity and competent writing will outsell competent writing and excellent writing...' and she said 'Yes.' I related this story to a Waterstones manager and he said if the publicity is there, the writing doesn't even have to be competent. So, for a self-published writer it's more important to develop an audience than develop writing skills (waits for gasp)... I know people who have spent years writing blogs so have a big following and then write the book (ready made audience)... Similar to the celebrity author phenomenon but on a smaller scale. I could go on... So much of what you say is true... Especially quality control. Good editing is essential, but how do you know if the editor you are paying for is good? - Some are brilliant, some are far from it, especially on the developmental side. You definitely learn so much from going down the traditional route and, as you say, it's the time. I need to push the publicity for my latest (traditionally published) book... You sell at the launch date, but what happens next? I need to learn a raft of skills. If I had a publisher saying 'Do this...' I'd be fine, but it isn't the skill learning that takes time it's finding out what skill you need, when and where to deploy it, chasing up the speaking engagements and all while I'm itching to be getting on with my next book. Some very successful self-published writers spend thousands on advertising. Another author I know said he does school events (he is a superb performer) and targets affluent schools - this way he gets a fee for his authors workshops with the pupils and then 200 children from well-off families all want to buy his book. One successful self-published writer said he does it because he gets 14 times the income from each self-published sale than he does from his traditional contract... Self-published is all down to the quality control. On one level you can churn out any old rubbish, but there are some very smart people doing it well - a process that is time-consuming, targeted and very demanding. I think of it like The Voice - there are better singers out there than many who earn a fortune, but not enough people have heard them yet. The reality is anyone can self-publish, but those who do successfully make it a career combine talent with long hours and a shrewd business brain. I have wondered if becoming a successful traditionally published author, building a fan base on the back of the publicity that generates then switching to self-published would be a profitable way forward as you are now selling to an already established market.... Either that, or I build my profile by going on Love Island just before releasing my next book.
Publishers used to give authors a few goes before they dropped them and now it seems if your first book isn't a hit, you're out. So plenty have gone from publisher to self-publishing and I think it's worked for them. But I also think every bit of this is like one cog in an overall machine, that you can use success in one element to leverage success in others. So you go for Love Island. I might even watch.
I've also heard some of the opposite occurring--that successful indie authors are being approached by trad publishers (more frequently than the just the big stories of Hugh Howey and Andy Weir). It's almost like they're using the indies as a slush pile testing ground--the books/authors have already proven themselves sellable in the market.
Hi William, thanks for sharing! In the academic world (humanities and social science) there isn’t really much of a choice. You cannot self publish and MUST publish via academic press, otherwise you will never receive credits for it for for promotion and proper recognition. However, your important points apply mainly for scholars in pension who sometimes self publish.
My first book had a very niche subject, but we were well known to the hobbyists in the niche, had a business that could process credit cards, and were aware there was a company interested in publishing it and keeping the North American rights for themselves, exploiting me and my work. We studied what we would need to do in order to allow book stores and other publishers to find the book, and us. We vetted the book through some of the toughest proofreaders we knew. It was a labour of love, but it became a nice earner for several years and some people even purchased all 3 editions we ended up publishing. We even researched local printers rather than sending it off to unknown entities. When we received requests from all the relevant libraries (local, state and federal) for each edition, we sent these off gladly. It gives me a great feeling knowing I have 3 books in the South Australian State Library. I still sell digital copies online. So for this book, it all went well, but it was a lot of work.
As you can imagine, I loved this. Having both self-published and publishing houses, they are definitely different animals. The experience with a developmental editor at a major publishing house was not great, but certainly agree having an editor is good. The point of getting to an audience or finding readers is now my mantra. I've done better than I ever thought I would by self-publishing, but then again I was not trying to make a living by it. I wanted readers. I can't say if you publish it, they will come; but I can say I have found ways to make it happen much to my surprise. And delight.
+10 for needing an editor. Aside: remember when the original Mac and ImageWriter first came out and people promptly began producing eye-watering documents?
Yes! I also remember working with a writer who was incredibly critical of everyone using clipart -- and he was using it extensively too. But that's different, apparently.
My understanding is that publishers largely do not promote books for mid-list authors any more. This seems to be the scuttlebutt. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) The general consensus is that nearly all of the advantages of traditional publishing are disappearing. When you factor in the huge difference in royalty between self-publishing and the pittance paid to you by publishers, I feel that those going self-published are now the ones in the know. There are many successful self-published authors who would respectfully take you to task on this video.
And I would ask them to define successful. It is certainly possible to do extremely well, but it is ferociously hard and so much is out of your control even as you would think everything is down to you. And you're right, of course, about royalties being far lower from a publisher, but the amount per book is one thing, the number of books sold is another.
@@WilliamGallagher Interesting. I think I was defining success in the usual way - really in the only objective way you can measure it: books sold and money made. Artistic success, levels of self-fulfillment and such are intangible, and while certainly central to happiness and feelings of success, cannot be measured in any meaningful way except subjectively. I think if a person is living off the books they write, then we should do well to call that success. Some are doing this many times over. I'm going to disagree with the amount of control one has over this success. Success always carries a measure of chance, but it's surprising (or not) how often smart, diligent, forward-thinking people become 'lucky'. I think in the short term, yes you're spinning the wheels on a slot machine, but sustained effort over time transforms the game into one which favors skill and cunning. I think we concede too much ground to fate and chance.
Thanks William. Very informative as usual. Would love to see a video on how to contact a publishing house. What to say, what to include. Would you only send a summary or the whole book? I know you have covered some of this before but a step by step process would be helpful
There is a 58keys Writing Workshop video coming about writing a pitch email, the very first thing you can send to a publisher, an agent, a producer or so on. It's due to run in the next couple of weeks. I don't think it answers everything you ask, but it may be of use.
You have to know what you're getting into, if you self-publish. Not that it's a good idea to attempt traditional publishing without knowing anything. But if you go into self-publishing unaware, you're probably going to make one of two discoveries: (1) You're going to remain ignorant and dump your book onto Amazon, Ingram, or wherever else without proper editing, promotion, etc. Then you'll "discover" no one but you cares that you self-published. (2) You're going to realize all the work that goes into creating a polished book, suddenly come to terms with all the "new" work that's ahead for yourself, and get overwhelmed. Then you have to make some tough decisions about where to go from there. I chose self-publishing because the writing came later. Not to put my life story in the comments, but my background was in the visual arts and (to a lesser degree) performing arts. Animation, illustration, design, and whatever other job I could get. Becoming a writer was a late (or later, at least) in life accident... which is a story in and of itself. But when I did decide to pursue writing, and studied my publishing options, I looked at self-publishing and thought, "You know what? I've already been doing a fair amount of this stuff anyway. If I can get my writing up to snuff, I'm a good deal of the way there already. I just need to study X, Y, and Z to _complete the set_ and I'm there." Thus began a 10 to 15 year journey of my own, discovering how much work getting my writing to a professional level would be. But all that said, it depends on the project. There are some stories and concepts I want to keep absolute control over, even if I put in a million hours and they never sell a copy. And there are other things where it probably makes more sense to pursue the traditional route.
@@WilliamGallagher Character limits are a problem. I've had TH-cam nuke long replies before. But the short version of the story, possibly in parts to avoid the algorithm deleting it. I went to art school in the late '90s. But U.S. laws (at the time, at least) required us to take a college/university level English and Science course. Being an art school, the teacher focused on creative writing. To all of us it was just a nuisance. We wanted to paint, sculpt, etc. But for our final, I wrote a short story about how nervous I was before my first youth hockey game, from many years ago, many years ago even by the late '90s. The teacher pulled me aside on our last day, and said he was really impressed. Said it was something he'd expect in one of his proper English courses at a local college, where he usually taught. And in my head I just thought, "Well that's good. It means I passed, so I don't have to worry about this crap anymore." →
→ Con. Flash forward to the early '00s. The internet's really blowing up. E-mail and AOL Instant Messenger are becoming a common part of everyone's lives. So suddenly I find myself writing e-mails and messages to everyone, all the time. Sometimes for work, sometimes for personal reasons. And this was spread out over years. But I kept having people compliment my writing. Not constantly, just enough to keep the last time fresh in my mind. And these were just business e-mails, or messages to friends who were having a rough time in their relationships, or me recounting some absurd thing that happened to me. But it just kept happening. And one day, in late 2005, it finally clicked. I'd sent an e-mail to someone who was having a rough go of it lately, and when I saw them in person the next time, they told me I was an excellent writer. In that moment, I remembered that art school English class from (by then) almost a decade ago. Then all the other times people said I was a good writer piled on. And my brain finally went, "Hey. I think we might've missed something important here." So I started writing, realized I loved it-more than visual art, in fact-and the rest is history.
Loved your sign off: writing is the important thing. Whatever path towards sharing your work you choose, the writing is the gift.
Hi William. Interesting subject. I trawled my first manuscript around the publishers and agents for six months. I discovered that since I am neither a TV Personality, a recovering pop-star, or a minor royal with a chip on my shoulder, no-one was interested. Now, I recognise that the book may not have been any good, but I became so despondent and disillusioned that the industry appears to have a river of gold flowing past their offices, and for the most part, they choose to ignore it. So I self-published. As you say, it was pretty straight forward, and I learned a great deal (via editors/proofreaders/cover designers etc). Now I haven't sold a heap, but that wasn't my objective. Since then, I have published a second and am currently writing my third and fourth. So tally-ho!
Someone recently sent around the manuscript to "Pride and Prejudice" and got nothing but rejections. And depressingly, only one publisher recognised the book. It's a funny world.
Hi William... Enjoyed your thoughts on this. I also find it a contentious subject. 2 comments to depress. At the National Writers Conference a couple of years ago, a publicist for a digital first publisher gave a speech and at the end I spoke to her and asked, 'So you're saying excellent publicity and competent writing will outsell competent writing and excellent writing...' and she said 'Yes.' I related this story to a Waterstones manager and he said if the publicity is there, the writing doesn't even have to be competent. So, for a self-published writer it's more important to develop an audience than develop writing skills (waits for gasp)... I know people who have spent years writing blogs so have a big following and then write the book (ready made audience)... Similar to the celebrity author phenomenon but on a smaller scale. I could go on... So much of what you say is true... Especially quality control. Good editing is essential, but how do you know if the editor you are paying for is good? - Some are brilliant, some are far from it, especially on the developmental side. You definitely learn so much from going down the traditional route and, as you say, it's the time. I need to push the publicity for my latest (traditionally published) book... You sell at the launch date, but what happens next? I need to learn a raft of skills. If I had a publisher saying 'Do this...' I'd be fine, but it isn't the skill learning that takes time it's finding out what skill you need, when and where to deploy it, chasing up the speaking engagements and all while I'm itching to be getting on with my next book. Some very successful self-published writers spend thousands on advertising. Another author I know said he does school events (he is a superb performer) and targets affluent schools - this way he gets a fee for his authors workshops with the pupils and then 200 children from well-off families all want to buy his book. One successful self-published writer said he does it because he gets 14 times the income from each self-published sale than he does from his traditional contract... Self-published is all down to the quality control. On one level you can churn out any old rubbish, but there are some very smart people doing it well - a process that is time-consuming, targeted and very demanding. I think of it like The Voice - there are better singers out there than many who earn a fortune, but not enough people have heard them yet. The reality is anyone can self-publish, but those who do successfully make it a career combine talent with long hours and a shrewd business brain. I have wondered if becoming a successful traditionally published author, building a fan base on the back of the publicity that generates then switching to self-published would be a profitable way forward as you are now selling to an already established market.... Either that, or I build my profile by going on Love Island just before releasing my next book.
Publishers used to give authors a few goes before they dropped them and now it seems if your first book isn't a hit, you're out. So plenty have gone from publisher to self-publishing and I think it's worked for them. But I also think every bit of this is like one cog in an overall machine, that you can use success in one element to leverage success in others. So you go for Love Island. I might even watch.
I've also heard some of the opposite occurring--that successful indie authors are being approached by trad publishers (more frequently than the just the big stories of Hugh Howey and Andy Weir). It's almost like they're using the indies as a slush pile testing ground--the books/authors have already proven themselves sellable in the market.
Hi William, thanks for sharing! In the academic world (humanities and social science) there isn’t really much of a choice. You cannot self publish and MUST publish via academic press, otherwise you will never receive credits for it for for promotion and proper recognition. However, your important points apply mainly for scholars in pension who sometimes self publish.
I wasn't thinking of academia, and I should have done. Thanks.
My first book had a very niche subject, but we were well known to the hobbyists in the niche, had a business that could process credit cards, and were aware there was a company interested in publishing it and keeping the North American rights for themselves, exploiting me and my work. We studied what we would need to do in order to allow book stores and other publishers to find the book, and us. We vetted the book through some of the toughest proofreaders we knew. It was a labour of love, but it became a nice earner for several years and some people even purchased all 3 editions we ended up publishing. We even researched local printers rather than sending it off to unknown entities. When we received requests from all the relevant libraries (local, state and federal) for each edition, we sent these off gladly. It gives me a great feeling knowing I have 3 books in the South Australian State Library. I still sell digital copies online. So for this book, it all went well, but it was a lot of work.
I so love that it's in the library. My first book is in my local library and it feels fantastic. One day someone might even borrow it.
As you can imagine, I loved this. Having both self-published and publishing houses, they are definitely different animals. The experience with a developmental editor at a major publishing house was not great, but certainly agree having an editor is good.
The point of getting to an audience or finding readers is now my mantra. I've done better than I ever thought I would by self-publishing, but then again I was not trying to make a living by it. I wanted readers. I can't say if you publish it, they will come; but I can say I have found ways to make it happen much to my surprise. And delight.
All I want is to communicate and to write better. I just have to do it in such a way that I earn enough money that I can keep trying.
Timely…
Again, thank you. You may have just given me that little extra tenacity to look closer again.
Thanks. Would you let me know what you decided to do?
@ I will!
Thanks!
Thank you, that's made me beam.
+10 for needing an editor.
Aside: remember when the original Mac and ImageWriter first came out and people promptly began producing eye-watering documents?
Yes! I also remember working with a writer who was incredibly critical of everyone using clipart -- and he was using it extensively too. But that's different, apparently.
My understanding is that publishers largely do not promote books for mid-list authors any more. This seems to be the scuttlebutt. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) The general consensus is that nearly all of the advantages of traditional publishing are disappearing. When you factor in the huge difference in royalty between self-publishing and the pittance paid to you by publishers, I feel that those going self-published are now the ones in the know. There are many successful self-published authors who would respectfully take you to task on this video.
And I would ask them to define successful. It is certainly possible to do extremely well, but it is ferociously hard and so much is out of your control even as you would think everything is down to you. And you're right, of course, about royalties being far lower from a publisher, but the amount per book is one thing, the number of books sold is another.
@@WilliamGallagher Interesting. I think I was defining success in the usual way - really in the only objective way you can measure it: books sold and money made. Artistic success, levels of self-fulfillment and such are intangible, and while certainly central to happiness and feelings of success, cannot be measured in any meaningful way except subjectively. I think if a person is living off the books they write, then we should do well to call that success. Some are doing this many times over.
I'm going to disagree with the amount of control one has over this success. Success always carries a measure of chance, but it's surprising (or not) how often smart, diligent, forward-thinking people become 'lucky'. I think in the short term, yes you're spinning the wheels on a slot machine, but sustained effort over time transforms the game into one which favors skill and cunning.
I think we concede too much ground to fate and chance.
Thanks William. Very informative as usual. Would love to see a video on how to contact a publishing house. What to say, what to include. Would you only send a summary or the whole book? I know you have covered some of this before but a step by step process would be helpful
There is a 58keys Writing Workshop video coming about writing a pitch email, the very first thing you can send to a publisher, an agent, a producer or so on. It's due to run in the next couple of weeks. I don't think it answers everything you ask, but it may be of use.
@@WilliamGallagher Thank you. Look forward to it.
You have to know what you're getting into, if you self-publish. Not that it's a good idea to attempt traditional publishing without knowing anything. But if you go into self-publishing unaware, you're probably going to make one of two discoveries: (1) You're going to remain ignorant and dump your book onto Amazon, Ingram, or wherever else without proper editing, promotion, etc. Then you'll "discover" no one but you cares that you self-published. (2) You're going to realize all the work that goes into creating a polished book, suddenly come to terms with all the "new" work that's ahead for yourself, and get overwhelmed. Then you have to make some tough decisions about where to go from there.
I chose self-publishing because the writing came later. Not to put my life story in the comments, but my background was in the visual arts and (to a lesser degree) performing arts. Animation, illustration, design, and whatever other job I could get. Becoming a writer was a late (or later, at least) in life accident... which is a story in and of itself. But when I did decide to pursue writing, and studied my publishing options, I looked at self-publishing and thought, "You know what? I've already been doing a fair amount of this stuff anyway. If I can get my writing up to snuff, I'm a good deal of the way there already. I just need to study X, Y, and Z to _complete the set_ and I'm there." Thus began a 10 to 15 year journey of my own, discovering how much work getting my writing to a professional level would be.
But all that said, it depends on the project. There are some stories and concepts I want to keep absolute control over, even if I put in a million hours and they never sell a copy. And there are other things where it probably makes more sense to pursue the traditional route.
Writing was an accident? You can't leave me hanging like that. Spill everything.
@@WilliamGallagher Character limits are a problem. I've had TH-cam nuke long replies before. But the short version of the story, possibly in parts to avoid the algorithm deleting it.
I went to art school in the late '90s. But U.S. laws (at the time, at least) required us to take a college/university level English and Science course. Being an art school, the teacher focused on creative writing. To all of us it was just a nuisance. We wanted to paint, sculpt, etc. But for our final, I wrote a short story about how nervous I was before my first youth hockey game, from many years ago, many years ago even by the late '90s.
The teacher pulled me aside on our last day, and said he was really impressed. Said it was something he'd expect in one of his proper English courses at a local college, where he usually taught. And in my head I just thought, "Well that's good. It means I passed, so I don't have to worry about this crap anymore." →
→ Con.
Flash forward to the early '00s. The internet's really blowing up. E-mail and AOL Instant Messenger are becoming a common part of everyone's lives. So suddenly I find myself writing e-mails and messages to everyone, all the time. Sometimes for work, sometimes for personal reasons.
And this was spread out over years. But I kept having people compliment my writing. Not constantly, just enough to keep the last time fresh in my mind. And these were just business e-mails, or messages to friends who were having a rough time in their relationships, or me recounting some absurd thing that happened to me. But it just kept happening. And one day, in late 2005, it finally clicked. I'd sent an e-mail to someone who was having a rough go of it lately, and when I saw them in person the next time, they told me I was an excellent writer.
In that moment, I remembered that art school English class from (by then) almost a decade ago. Then all the other times people said I was a good writer piled on. And my brain finally went, "Hey. I think we might've missed something important here." So I started writing, realized I loved it-more than visual art, in fact-and the rest is history.