System recovery is made easier and less energy-intensive by first applying a pre-tension to the rope (by pulling on it statically), then pulling on it with a sharp stroke and, very importantly, letting the rope bounce freely.
I think the pattern for the friction hitch this uses is the VT Prusik might be good to do a video about it. I think it’s useful to ascend or descend a rope that it’s tight
we didn't notice it slip at all. you would have to completely unweight the rope for it to beign ot even move. just be ready for 12-20 full body weight pulls to get a full 60m or longer rope to drop. it will come down just when you reach that point of saying "fuck we are gonna have to go back up and get the friggin rope...."
Thanks for a nice review! I have not tried this yet, so I have a question. The mechanics of the device seems to depend on the bungee continually resetting the ”finger trap”, by pulling the rope up. With the full weight of a 60-70 m rope, plus some friction, plus possibly snagging, it seems to me that the bungee may not be strong enough. And if this happens, there would be no way of knowing how secure your rope is. So you would be in a situation where you cannot retrieve the rope, nor climb the rope. Am I correct, or did I get this wrong?
When you weight the escaper the bungee is stretched out. As long as you keep the thing weighted the finger trap is engaged and the rope won’t pull through. The reason for the bungee is so that it will retract when the rope isn’t weighted and then the rope side of the escaper can inch through. So the bungee pulls the finger trap up instead of the rope, and since the rope isn’t tied off it eventually slips through, hope that makes sence
Hey Ryan great channel mate and love your reviews. After watching this there is not a bat shit in hell i would rap off on this product. (Except extreme Emergency) Im a rope access worker and i guess safety is drilled into me as its work and i guess i always take to much gear climbing lol. For the sake of a runner and couple binners to potential save my life its worth it too me. This product i think has flaws not flaws as in safety flaws more mis use flaws in wrong or inexp hands i guess. {Anyone who gets this products needs to practice and get it dialed} Like said in other comments you get that thing unweighted , re weighted , bouncing , a half panicked person on the rope my head would be like holy shit where is that black mark now.When people are stressed shit happens and happens fast. Dont get me wrong im sure its solid as it would not go to market, but i guess we as an individual get to make that risk assessment ourselves. Im also never in the weather that you guys have in Nth Hemisphere as im in Australia and no ice or snow where i am so weather is a lot more predictable. I think you nailed it with saying its emergency only and it still makes you nervous. Awesome reviews mate keep up the good work totally rate what your doing big thumbs up.
The elastic is NOT adjustable for conditions. The heavier your rope (ie wet), or more rock surface friction, or bends in the rope, the less likely the elastic will be able to lift the rope enough to release any bit of escaper line, or the smaller the bit of anchor line will be for each tug. You need to test or estimate all of those factors at the top of your rappel, or risk leaving your rope in place!
The Potrero Chico clip raises a question: isn’t the “ring the belltower” motion the same as a “sawing” motion? You can see in the clip the rope is across a rock below the anchor, seems awful dumb to saw your rope 20 times across a rock.
What specific video are you talking about, I have a couple different ones from Potero Chico, I’m just trying to narrow down which one so I can understand your question, thanks!
@@ryantilley9063 It’s the clip at 8:13. The chains are about 18” above a white colored edge in the rock that appears to be deflecting the rope /creating an indirect pull. If the chains are above a belay ledge, you have to expect the rope to interact with the edge. I just wonder how bad is that edge interaction. On sandstone though it would be sandpapering the sheath. 😬
Ok now I see what you’re saying, sorry for not understanding, first thing I’ll say is I wouldn’t recommend using this device in that situation, or any other time when you can easily rappel with using chains. It’s more of an emergency device, but the main take away is to look at the edge that the rope is rubbing on. If it’s a sharp edge then that will lead to more wear on the sheath of the rope, but it also helps that you’re not putting that much force on the rope when you’re pulling it down. If you do have to use this and the rope is running over a couple of lips or edges it would probably add a lot of friction and make the rope way harder to pull down. It’s best for pitches or clean rope strait up and down.
Hello Mr. Tilley, I read that Alex Honnold and Colin Haley had the escaper with them (in patagonia last time) They have tested and used it, their conclusions are: it does not work well, too long the times to recover the rope, too many problems with this tool, no satisfactory results, say these 2 GREAT climbers ! Best Wishes.
Thanks Ryan, that fiction hitch has been around for a long time. Know as a dog and tails in the Rope rescue circles.
Great video as always, but that anchor was trash.
System recovery is made easier and less energy-intensive by first applying a pre-tension to the rope (by pulling on it statically), then pulling on it with a sharp stroke and, very importantly, letting the rope bounce freely.
I think the pattern for the friction hitch this uses is the VT Prusik might be good to do a video about it. I think it’s useful to ascend or descend a rope that it’s tight
Thank you, very helpful!
Thanks for the nice review. Have you noticed if the Escaper slips at all if the rappel is not done smoothly and there is bouncing?
we didn't notice it slip at all. you would have to completely unweight the rope for it to beign ot even move. just be ready for 12-20 full body weight pulls to get a full 60m or longer rope to drop. it will come down just when you reach that point of saying "fuck we are gonna have to go back up and get the friggin rope...."
Thanks for a nice review! I have not tried this yet, so I have a question. The mechanics of the device seems to depend on the bungee continually resetting the ”finger trap”, by pulling the rope up. With the full weight of a 60-70 m rope, plus some friction, plus possibly snagging, it seems to me that the bungee may not be strong enough. And if this happens, there would be no way of knowing how secure your rope is. So you would be in a situation where you cannot retrieve the rope, nor climb the rope. Am I correct, or did I get this wrong?
I have one of those as well, ideally you wanna use this on straight rappels or overhangs to prevent what you just said
Bowline Dandy Sounds reasonable, thanks!
When you weight the escaper the bungee is stretched out. As long as you keep the thing weighted the finger trap is engaged and the rope won’t pull through. The reason for the bungee is so that it will retract when the rope isn’t weighted and then the rope side of the escaper can inch through. So the bungee pulls the finger trap up instead of the rope, and since the rope isn’t tied off it eventually slips through, hope that makes sence
Ryan Tilley Ah, so if the ROPE for whatever reason presents a lot of resistance to being pulled upwards, this is not a problem?
Hey Ryan great channel mate and love your reviews.
After watching this there is not a bat shit in hell i would rap off on this product. (Except extreme Emergency)
Im a rope access worker and i guess safety is drilled into me as its work and i guess i always take to much gear climbing lol.
For the sake of a runner and couple binners to potential save my life its worth it too me.
This product i think has flaws not flaws as in safety flaws more mis use flaws in wrong or inexp hands i guess. {Anyone who gets this products needs to practice and get it dialed} Like said in other comments you get that thing unweighted , re weighted , bouncing , a half panicked person on the rope my head would be like holy shit where is that black mark now.When people are stressed shit happens and happens fast. Dont get me wrong im sure its solid as it would not go to market, but i guess we as an individual get to make that risk assessment ourselves.
Im also never in the weather that you guys have in Nth Hemisphere as im in Australia and no ice or snow where i am so weather is a lot more predictable.
I think you nailed it with saying its emergency only and it still makes you nervous.
Awesome reviews mate keep up the good work totally rate what your doing big thumbs up.
The elastic is NOT adjustable for conditions. The heavier your rope (ie wet), or more rock surface friction, or bends in the rope, the less likely the elastic will be able to lift the rope enough to release any bit of escaper line, or the smaller the bit of anchor line will be for each tug. You need to test or estimate all of those factors at the top of your rappel, or risk leaving your rope in place!
It is off the VT knot. You need to be smart enough to reset it. Carry 60m 0.125 amsteel.
The Potrero Chico clip raises a question: isn’t the “ring the belltower” motion the same as a “sawing” motion? You can see in the clip the rope is across a rock below the anchor, seems awful dumb to saw your rope 20 times across a rock.
What specific video are you talking about, I have a couple different ones from Potero Chico, I’m just trying to narrow down which one so I can understand your question, thanks!
@@ryantilley9063 It’s the clip at 8:13. The chains are about 18” above a white colored edge in the rock that appears to be deflecting the rope /creating an indirect pull.
If the chains are above a belay ledge, you have to expect the rope to interact with the edge. I just wonder how bad is that edge interaction. On sandstone though it would be sandpapering the sheath. 😬
Ok now I see what you’re saying, sorry for not understanding, first thing I’ll say is I wouldn’t recommend using this device in that situation, or any other time when you can easily rappel with using chains. It’s more of an emergency device, but the main take away is to look at the edge that the rope is rubbing on. If it’s a sharp edge then that will lead to more wear on the sheath of the rope, but it also helps that you’re not putting that much force on the rope when you’re pulling it down. If you do have to use this and the rope is running over a couple of lips or edges it would probably add a lot of friction and make the rope way harder to pull down. It’s best for pitches or clean rope strait up and down.
Hello Mr. Tilley, I read that Alex Honnold and Colin Haley had the escaper with them (in patagonia last time) They have tested and used it, their conclusions are: it does not work well, too long the times to recover the rope, too many problems with this tool, no satisfactory results, say these 2 GREAT climbers !
Best Wishes.