There reason why there is no difference in att stats with helmet att % + core att % is that the att % DOES NOT STACK MULTIPLICATIVELY instead it’s stacking additionally. Let’s say 1000 att + helm 15% + core 30% = 1000*1.45 = 1450. What you’re expecting is (1000 + 15%) * 1.3 (30%) 1150 * 1.3 = 1495. What we are looking for is if (at all times) is % att > additional att and vice versa If at 10,000 atk, 30% att = 3000 additional attack.
you need more upvotes brother. actually pin this if possible. Was about to comment this exact same thing. There is a point at which you gain less by stacking one multiplier instead of another. This is called diminishing returns. In this case, stacking more attack% without boosting base attack has diminished returns vs if you stacked more base attack instead of attack%.
True, but the point here is also, that additional attack does not take part in the attack % calculation. At some point attack % might be best for hunters too.
It's not diminishing return in this case. It's just common math and one that most of us know. 1000% of 1 is not more than 10% of 1000. It's common knowledge that u need base ATK to make % work. The point was to show that % was always better for SJW because he scaled off 2 weapons and hunters off one. Now atm, it's still better for add ATK because it tops off higher but at Lvl 95 we should see % work better as long as sjw has a certain base atk
1) i think when he meant diminishing returns, i think he meant… for example If you have 1000 atk and get 100% atk increase it will bring you to 2000 atk. And increasing that again by 100% atk will bring you to 3000 atk. The flat value of atk stays the same, 1000 each, however the increase in % from the starting stats/base is 100% then 50% . 2) yes, somehow some additional atk does get affected by atk % increase like the weapon but not the artifact (i only tried with 1 artifact) anyway… the numbers did not make sense for some of the calculations. Like for example i did a core atk increase of 2.67% of 150 atk weapon gave me 14 more atk instead of 4. As to why it doesnt make sense, im not too sure. It could be that some % are calculated differently or first and some are added. For case of weapon vs artifact. (Base + weapon atk) * atk increase vs (Base * atk increase) + artifact atk. This is just my guess. Either way it’s not perfect but try things out for yourself:) there could be some backend formula errors and what not. By fixing it, it may/may not be better for the players. Things will change with updates too. Happy leveling.
@@vimal21_Sanatani its better to be sure than rush things then regret, some people are just obsess of getting power even not knowing what consequences might be
not necessarily, keep in mind that cha's core was a higher level on % attack than jinwoos core was on additional attack, therefore giving more % atk in comparison to what the additional attack is providing. If the additional attack stat would have been on the same level as the % attack stat, it would have given jinwoo more attack than the percentage one.
To determine the basic values you also have to calculate the gemstones, first subtracting the additional values and then deducting them in percent.
Thank you so much Payne, I got a legendary core with attack % and crit damage for Jinwoo (and the extra 5% attack) and now I know that I should max it out
I got my Plum to A6. I removed it from my list after A5 and added bow and the new daggers. I pulled 2 ssr on the same pull and got both dagger and Plum. A good 50/50 loss.
5929 attack of A10 (+15% all stats) mean a BASE stat of 5156, so 5156 must be the base number to all calculations BUT, with a 5156 as a base (100%) we must get a 7695 with the core (149,25%, 15% A10 + 29,25% core, +5% light type) instead of 7328, and this means only a 142,14% bonus
So basically our same stat breakdown so far, though it seems crazy to not include the gear total and only the weapon. Odd design choice, but i guess it keeps power down lower for now.
Looking like the reason why %Atk is better for Jinwoo is due to his ability points increasing his base stats (so if you put all of his points into Attack, his overall % benefit will increase exponentially) whereas the hunters don't have this benefit, the only way a hunter can increase their base stats is with their weapon, so you'll plateau faster on a hunter than you would on SJW. So all in all, flat stats will always be stronger on Hunters and for any stats SJW isn't investing points for.
Hi Payne, I really suxx at maths so does it apply to artifacts and gems too ? From now on should I focus on % for SJW and flat for hunters artifacts, and mix my gems grid so everyone is happy ?
@Payneblade is it safe to assume that flat stats are better to hunters because of this discovery of yours? Like atk for atk based hunters, hp for hp based hunters etc. So we can also apply this in relic if that's the case. But for SJW, atk % is better because he got stats that we can boost like STR? Let us know your thoughts.
Payne u need to max out both the att and att percent core to see the difference because flat att is slightly better than att percent when you enhance core then there is a chance it roles more into main stat than sub so i think that is why your att percent gives more att to sjw but flat att still better when you max out
the purpose was to show WHY atk% is better for jinwoo (what i have been saying since early access due to 2 weapons scaling). Of course if the flat atk at the end is higher then u go with that
@@PayneBlade yeah cores plain attack and % atk ain't proportional with artifactas main stats plain and %, also atk% substats escales way better than plain atk subs XD, they just poorly designed it imo, just blame netmarble, i do it lmao
@@PayneBlade yeah no problem good content as always but I think in future when we have like more base att from stat points then maybe att percent will overtake for sjw than just flat on cores
So i would say flat atk is better for all, hunters and jinwoo. In your case atk % was bettwr on jinwoo cause you got that high atk stat but for any non whale with a jinwoo around 20 - 25 k atk flat atk will be better
@@PayneBlade ah okay Thought both hat 74% and % was more My fault Now that I have your attention, hi, Fan from germany What do you think of the Power System in this game? Its kinda stupid that we have all this characters nut for every team I build my meilin is the best Support, just cause I have her a10 with a8 weapon. Even though I run the wund team with Han semi a3, meilin is better Support for damage because of the Power difference And the Power scaling on few enemies. I can do proof of strong lvl 5 Golem which has around 800k but some stages at tier 15 with 400k required Power is compketely broken cause the Deal way too much damage or tank way too much. Baran easy was a joke for my team, first folgt on baran normal was not easy but not hard and the second fight against esil is nearly impossible cause she has 40% health left. My Standard team is around 670k and her required Power is 650k. Dont know sometimes 700k Fights are fairly easy and then theres a fight with 400k which is stupid hard Sure some Things are my Problem but What I want to ask you is: What do you think of the while Power system? Do you think its good or not? Balanced or not?
Do artifacts consider the extra stats the cores give ? For SJW maybe getting a flat stat core would provide more stats if you raise the base stat value and the artifacts after that increase it further with percentages. Didn't run any math btw, just asking about this
It obvious they want players to summon for weaponsf for sjw and also craft them for hunters to go for A10 and it's only acheiveble by summuning as well 😊
36.79% and 3953 addtional when maxed. I already posted all up there. Can take it and calculate. Additional for level 90 is more. When level 95, % should be taking over
@@muhdabsar2893 well for hunters thats their attack scales with HP i think % its better!! Cuz they have 40k+ hp...but defense i think its better flat cuz 20k defense doesnt scale much from %
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There reason why there is no difference in att stats with helmet att % + core att % is that the att % DOES NOT STACK MULTIPLICATIVELY instead it’s stacking additionally.
Let’s say 1000 att + helm 15% + core 30% = 1000*1.45 = 1450.
What you’re expecting is (1000 + 15%) * 1.3 (30%)
1150 * 1.3 = 1495.
What we are looking for is if (at all times) is % att > additional att and vice versa
If at 10,000 atk, 30% att = 3000 additional attack.
you need more upvotes brother. actually pin this if possible. Was about to comment this exact same thing.
There is a point at which you gain less by stacking one multiplier instead of another. This is called diminishing returns.
In this case, stacking more attack% without boosting base attack has diminished returns vs if you stacked more base attack instead of attack%.
True, but the point here is also, that additional attack does not take part in the attack % calculation.
At some point attack % might be best for hunters too.
It's not diminishing return in this case. It's just common math and one that most of us know. 1000% of 1 is not more than 10% of 1000. It's common knowledge that u need base ATK to make % work. The point was to show that % was always better for SJW because he scaled off 2 weapons and hunters off one. Now atm, it's still better for add ATK because it tops off higher but at Lvl 95 we should see % work better as long as sjw has a certain base atk
1) i think when he meant diminishing returns, i think he meant… for example
If you have 1000 atk and get 100% atk increase it will bring you to 2000 atk. And increasing that again by 100% atk will bring you to 3000 atk.
The flat value of atk stays the same, 1000 each, however the increase in % from the starting stats/base is 100% then 50% .
2) yes, somehow some additional atk does get affected by atk % increase like the weapon but not the artifact (i only tried with 1 artifact)
anyway… the numbers did not make sense for some of the calculations. Like for example i did a core atk increase of 2.67% of 150 atk weapon gave me 14 more atk instead of 4.
As to why it doesnt make sense, im not too sure. It could be that some % are calculated differently or first and some are added. For case of weapon vs artifact. (Base + weapon atk) * atk increase vs (Base * atk increase) + artifact atk. This is just my guess.
Either way it’s not perfect but try things out for yourself:) there could be some backend formula errors and what not. By fixing it, it may/may not be better for the players. Things will change with updates too. Happy leveling.
this is why I'm still not trying to level up my cores, because I dont want to make mistake...
me too 😊😂 thank god someone thinks same like me for this lol
@@vimal21_Sanatani its better to be sure than rush things then regret, some people are just obsess of getting power even not knowing what consequences might be
@@xernandelacruz6401 yes agreed we should not rush gatcha games regret is painful for these games😅
Glad to know the difference between attack percentage and flat attack. I'll keep this in mind going forward! Thanks for the info!
thank youuuu that's the best video for cores since them released
big W
Big Payne thanks for the shout outs man you deserve to be no. 1
Been waiting for that one
Appreciate king❤
For those who like me just want the conclusion : flat damage core for hunter , % damage for jinwoo
not necessarily, keep in mind that cha's core was a higher level on % attack than jinwoos core was on additional attack, therefore giving more % atk in comparison to what the additional attack is providing.
If the additional attack stat would have been on the same level as the % attack stat, it would have given jinwoo more attack than the percentage one.
Disagree. Flat for all
This may change with the new artifacts tho.
ive tried this experiment by checking how the numbers change. additional is better than percentage for the cores too
Correct atm it is
To determine the basic values you also have to calculate the gemstones, first subtracting the additional values and then deducting them in percent.
for percentage calculation its simple: Atk% of Jinwoo scales of value 10.744. for hunters it scales of 6666. currently add atk is better.
thanks for this bro!! really in-depth and informative!
Good to know how core stats work !! Gg Payne
Thank you so much Payne, I got a legendary core with attack % and crit damage for Jinwoo (and the extra 5% attack) and now I know that I should max it out
Happy Thanksgiving my guy
U TOO!
Pretty clear to me now, ty👍
I got my Plum to A6. I removed it from my list after A5 and added bow and the new daggers. I pulled 2 ssr on the same pull and got both dagger and Plum. A good 50/50 loss.
Yeah.. the % only affects the base atk and weapon without all other bonuses. The flat additional is waay more at like 4k max core
5929 attack of A10 (+15% all stats) mean a BASE stat of 5156, so 5156 must be the base number to all calculations
BUT, with a 5156 as a base (100%) we must get a 7695 with the core (149,25%, 15% A10 + 29,25% core, +5% light type) instead of 7328, and this means only a 142,14% bonus
Pretty sure that dimension advancements don't increase your base atk, but are like a Stat buff you get during the fight
So basically our same stat breakdown so far, though it seems crazy to not include the gear total and only the weapon. Odd design choice, but i guess it keeps power down lower for now.
Just for more info, the increase from core does is not affected by Gems either
Great data, thanks :D
Thanks for doing this video
Looking like the reason why %Atk is better for Jinwoo is due to his ability points increasing his base stats (so if you put all of his points into Attack, his overall % benefit will increase exponentially) whereas the hunters don't have this benefit, the only way a hunter can increase their base stats is with their weapon, so you'll plateau faster on a hunter than you would on SJW. So all in all, flat stats will always be stronger on Hunters and for any stats SJW isn't investing points for.
Currently core flat ATK is better even for jinwoo until probably LVL 95 releases
Funny i literally yesterday talked about it in your discord on sla testing discusion
❤❤❤happy Thanksgiving bro 😢😢 I still cant support bro so I guess I'm missing out this time
9:46 you equipped flat HP not atk% on her as the main stat and the sub stat had the 15% atk was that on purpose?
Hi Payne, I really suxx at maths so does it apply to artifacts and gems too ?
From now on should I focus on % for SJW and flat for hunters artifacts,
and mix my gems grid so everyone is happy ?
@Payneblade is it safe to assume that flat stats are better to hunters because of this discovery of yours? Like atk for atk based hunters, hp for hp based hunters etc. So we can also apply this in relic if that's the case. But for SJW, atk % is better because he got stats that we can boost like STR? Let us know your thoughts.
I've really been sleeping on these codes
a3 merei or a1 charlotte... which one should I pair with cha nd gunhee for wobl
i think the Hp hunters are the only hunters that using precentage and not the flat
made my first tiny purchase today
Payne u need to max out both the att and att percent core to see the difference because flat att is slightly better than att percent when you enhance core then there is a chance it roles more into main stat than sub so i think that is why your att percent gives more att to sjw but flat att still better when you max out
the purpose was to show WHY atk% is better for jinwoo (what i have been saying since early access due to 2 weapons scaling). Of course if the flat atk at the end is higher then u go with that
@@PayneBlade yeah cores plain attack and % atk ain't proportional with artifactas main stats plain and %, also atk% substats escales way better than plain atk subs XD, they just poorly designed it imo, just blame netmarble, i do it lmao
@@PayneBlade yeah no problem good content as always but I think in future when we have like more base att from stat points then maybe att percent will overtake for sjw than just flat on cores
so all weap need be up to 100 lvl to get max support from cores, thx
Would you say that for defense scaling hunters, def% will be better?
im ranked 138 but didnt come up I even changed my name to Monarch. wonder why my name didn't come up?
So i would say flat atk is better for all, hunters and jinwoo.
In your case atk % was bettwr on jinwoo cause you got that high atk stat but for any non whale with a jinwoo around 20 - 25 k atk flat atk will be better
Flat ATK is better even for whales atm. It's around LVL 95 we should see atk% give more
But for your jinwoo the atk% was slightly better or am i missing something?@@PayneBlade
@lars3do540 it wasn't maxed that's why. Once maxed. Flt ATK had more
@@PayneBlade ah okay
Thought both hat 74% and % was more
My fault
Now that I have your attention, hi, Fan from germany
What do you think of the Power System in this game?
Its kinda stupid that we have all this characters nut for every team I build my meilin is the best Support, just cause I have her a10 with a8 weapon.
Even though I run the wund team with Han semi a3, meilin is better Support for damage because of the Power difference
And the Power scaling on few enemies.
I can do proof of strong lvl 5 Golem which has around 800k but some stages at tier 15 with 400k required Power is compketely broken cause the Deal way too much damage or tank way too much.
Baran easy was a joke for my team, first folgt on baran normal was not easy but not hard and the second fight against esil is nearly impossible cause she has 40% health left.
My Standard team is around 670k and her required Power is 650k.
Dont know sometimes 700k Fights are fairly easy and then theres a fight with 400k which is stupid hard
Sure some Things are my Problem but What I want to ask you is:
What do you think of the while Power system?
Do you think its good or not? Balanced or not?
I maxed a gold core and use on sjw or hunter just for extra attk boost... Annoying thing is that I need to change that 2 cores everytime I atttk...
Do artifacts consider the extra stats the cores give ? For SJW maybe getting a flat stat core would provide more stats if you raise the base stat value and the artifacts after that increase it further with percentages.
Didn't run any math btw, just asking about this
No, cores are basically like artifacts where any % is calculated with the base stat and additional stats are added to afterwards
This makes it hard bc you can't upgrade it through random core, it has to be identical stats or name
No bro.... U can up with anything.... Just unlock it or else it won't show in upgrade list
@@Daddy_chill123 oh i see, thanks
my boy payne, I have a question. Sorry if this is off topic, I just want to ask what the best artifact build for our new girl Gina.
8 blessing as support
@@PayneBlade thank you
Yes 😊
Jin woos passive gave him +5% attack tho
U definitely want that passive but it won't show in the stat sheet
@PayneBlade
People have been saying for the longest time that attack % is better is it now the case that Additional Attack is better?
Attack% for sjw and additional for hunters
Zaff saying flat attack is better for Jinu and Hunters so with one is better xD
Flat ATK is for core better for both.
It obvious they want players to summon for weaponsf for sjw and also craft them for hunters to go for A10 and it's only acheiveble by summuning as well 😊
Whats the percentage to make choi crit??
It understandable
Still doesn't make sense none of the experiments shows 29% gains after equipping the core
Cause you probably forgot to account in gems
@@zer0467 so it should be higher or lower?
@@finnrawat6926 if you were to replace all your atk gems with healing boost you'd have the 29% increase
never been this early
So attack % for sjw and additional attack for hunters
How do you know how much points you have for the supporter?
Bigger spenders follow
Bro why vulcan hard mode reward is garbage??? its always give me rare but baran easy give me always heroic what kind of stupidity is that???
how to change NID Name? 🤣
GOD DAMN that beard, lookin clean, but older xd
Haha for sure makes me look my age!
does this apply to hp def too?
defense yes but not hp. % usually better
@@PayneBlade crit dmg, defense pen, or dmg increase sub?
so additional hp better then hp% for hunter?
Flat stats are always better for hunters.
@@zaccomptonk590 ouh ok.. thanks
I think max % its 30...and max flat attack its 3k!! So 30% att on sjw is far better than 3k....but for hunter 3k its better than 30%
@@danielmillan6241 same goes for hp and def stats?
36.79% and 3953 addtional when maxed. I already posted all up there. Can take it and calculate. Additional for level 90 is more. When level 95, % should be taking over
No, ADDITIONAL ATK for sjw and hunters is the best currently. I posted a reply up there u can view it the calculations
@@vapezone9763 thx bro!! Didnt knew about it!!
@@muhdabsar2893 well for hunters thats their attack scales with HP i think % its better!! Cuz they have 40k+ hp...but defense i think its better flat cuz 20k defense doesnt scale much from %
Now you see why Payne should be number 1! He does this for the community showing you the actual NUMBERS! He deserves #1 🔥
yo
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