Thanks for your video on the diode ring mixer. I was worried I'd get the phasing wrong, but you explained it so well. I've become obsessed with the idea of building an upconverter for my cheap sdr dongle. It doesn't have to be the best upconverter. I hope to keep it as simple as I can. If I can receive some of the shortwave band, I will have succeeded. While I've built many small projects over the years, I haven't used my soldering iron for years now. I agree with what you said about building the mixer rather than buying something. Because you can, and you learn along the way. When I first looked at schematics of diode ring mixers, it looked quite intimidating. With video's like yours, I think I can do it. I hope to build my upconverter completely from parts from my junkbox.
Hi Trevor! Thanks very much for watching and commenting. I'm really pleased that the video was helpful. That sounds like a great little project and I'm sure, as you say, you'll learn a lot in the process. Keep experimenting and having fun with it. All power to you! 73 Nick
Great Video! Ham radio really needs more people like you. I have always said that it`s ok to go and buy something to save time ONLY, if you know how it works and are very familiar with it. (There is little to learn in this case.) Otherwise you should definitely build! There are a couple of points worth mentioning about this build. 1 The three wires should really be the same diameter, otherwise they will create different impedances. 2 When you measure the impedance of the transformer, you should NOT aim for 50 ohms, rather you should aim for an impedance that is many times higher than your intended working impedance at the lowest frequency of interest. eg. Assume 50 ohm, assume this is a first converter, assume lowest rx freq is 1800khz, a good balun would be 6 x higher impedance, so we get around 50 microhenrys, 560 ohms at 1800khz. (You might need to use a softer grade of ferrite or thinner wire.) 3 The actual working impedance is set by the impedance of the terminations of the RF and IF ports, hence the importance of say a 3db pad at either end. The impedance of the LO port is not usually controlled and generally will see a high swr. I don`t usually find the need for a diplexer to dump the harmonics, I follow the mixer with a band pass filter. Complements from Chris, UK (1977 AM Die-hard).
Hi Chris, thanks for watching and for your helpful comments. I'll certainly try your suggestion of using the same diameter wires in the next one I build. I too like pi attenuators and usually try and find any excuse to put one in - usually after amplifiers. Thanks again. 73 Nick
I was all set to buy 25 of the 1N5711Schottky diodes when I mentioned to a friend that I was going to build a couple of your DBM's and go through the tedious job of characterizing all of them, not really a bad job, but somewhat slow for me. He got up, left the room, and came back with a bag of 150 to 200 FH1100 surplus commercial Schottky full-wave bridge diode arrays already wired together into compact vertical assemblies, so I'm sure they are already matched, but I'll take one apart and verify that. Long story short, he gave me the whole lot of them, along with 5,000 individual FH1100 diodes from that batch of surplus. It pays to have friends who scrounge surplus parts. I don't know if the FH1100 is better, comparable, or worse than the 1N5711, but they were sure the right price. Now I won't have to get, match, and assemble the diode bridges to build mixers for my projects for quite some time. Next, on to the toroid transformers... :)
Hi Nick, thank you for your reply on another video. You mentioned that you measured 43-ohms. My understanding, is that to achieve 50-ohms on the twisted pairs, that they should be wound with a pitch of 5-7 turns-per-inch. In looking at yours, they seemed a bit higher; maybe this contributed to the lower impedance? Anyway, nice construction work and description! 73… 😊
Hi again! Yes, you could certainly be on to something there. That's another area where some experimentation might yield some interesting results! Thanks very much. 73, Nick
@@M0NTVHomebrewing might be possible to go from just parallel runs (zip-cord style) to varying pitches, using SWR or RL of a VNA terminated into a non-reactive 50-ohm load, to determine what these impedances are and maybe how frequency affects them; this would seemingly reduce the system complexity and isolate the individual contributing influences (YT-video?).
Great job Nick - the Vienna Wireless Maker Group is about to begin a direct conversion receiver project and I'm encouraging all to build their mixers for the project. You have nicely collected all the great references, Pete, Alan, and Charlie - how can we go wrong? 73 from Virginia - Dean, KK4DAS
Thanks for this Nick, the way you mix theory and practice really helps my and I'm sure others' learning curve. Don't know about overdressed, certainly the smartest TH-cam presenter this year so far! 🤣 👍
Can you give me advices how to solder those components i have no clue and i have this project, the copper is the ground? How to do it without soldering pads? Does island cutter work?
Hi there! Check out my video here (th-cam.com/video/CpQK0W7TY5g/w-d-xo.html) where I go through the process of preparing the board using a Dremel-like engraving tool. Hope this helps. 73 Nick
Awesome video! I just built a dbm but didn't match the diodes just to see what would happen. It works. kinda. :D Now I have to sit down and do the hard work of matching all of the ones Ive got! BTW "build me diode ring" is an awesome name for a #1 hit single! Great... now I have to write it, don't I?
Thanks very much. Yes, without the diodes being matched you'll struggle to get the balance in your double balanced mixer. When you can match the diodes they can work surprisingly well though. You could be breaking new ground with a song about diode rings!!! 73 Nick
Que ocurriria,si invierto las señales de entrada,e inyecto la señal del oscilador local,en el extremo donde esta el puerto de ((FI))??,que cambio puede haber en el funcionamiento, y perfomance??.Gracias amigo!!
¡Hola! Para ser honesto, aunque ciertamente puede intercambiar los puertos IF y RF, no he intentado inyectar la señal LO en ningún otro lugar que no sea el puerto LO. Me pregunto por qué querrías hacerlo. Pero, ¿por qué no probarlo y comprobarlo usted mismo? No romperá su mezclador si mantiene bajos los niveles de voltaje y podría ser un experimento interesante. ¡Todo lo mejor! 73 Nick
Have a look at sprat 144 page 4/5 a design that uses BAS40-04 which is a pair of diodes in a small smt package as they are on the same subwstrate they will be matched. I think your wire is a bit thick for that core, 32swg would be better - the old vero wire prototyping wire would do nicely. Seems to be a bit rare now, but it did come in several colours. Andy
Thanks Andy - I had a look at that article in SPRAT. David Smith who wrote it actually used a lighter gauge wire on his binocular cores but 28SWG on the FT37-43. My bifilar is actually 26SWG so (as Chris comments above) I might try using three strands of 28SWG in the next one I build. It's interesting stuff isn't it? Thanks very much. 73 Nick
@@M0NTVHomebrewing Yes very interesting stuff indeed. Some DBL mixers are soemthing that has been on my todo lost for ages (the sprat 144 design) While looking about for vero wire prompted by your video I only found a couple of colours (from vero) However I did come across some coloured enameled copper wire intended for craft work No info on what the enamel is, and no real point tryig to ask :-) but a set of ten colours should turn up in a day or so. if thay are insulated well enough, they may be a viable source of wire for building such mixers. Andy
@@andye2005 Thanks Andy. Sounds interesting. If the wires seem OK and you give it a go please let me know how you get on. I like the idea of different colours - it presents less opportunity for me to stuff up the phasing! Thanks again. 73
Hi! Yes, you construct T1 and T2 to be identical. Because it is a trifilar winding you are winding three wires simultaneously as if they were one. This means you haven't got the issue of making sure separate windings all have the same phase. Just watch the connections and you should be fine. 73 Nick
Hi! I'm sorry but I've never built a mixer for anything above about 50 MHz so I can't really advise you. You'd be best off asking in some of the microwave forums. I think it will be seriously challenging though - at those kind of frequencies every mm is a significant fraction of the wavelength of your signal. HF is pretty forgiving but UHF and above is not. All the very best to you. 73, Nick
Hi there! Please can you tell me when did I say that? I've just been through the video again and couldn't find any reference to maximum frequencies. If you can point me to it I'd be grateful. Thanks. 73 Nick
![🔴 ฟุตบอลแชมป์กีฬา 7HD แชมเปียน คัพ 2024 [รอบรองชนะเลิศ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zPm8ClLVhoE/mqdefault.jpg)
Great tutorial on building the transformers. Takes the mystery away. Appreciated.
Thanks Simon! 73, Nick
Some people hate winding coils and toroids, but I find it quite therapeutic, after a stressful days work.
Me too! It's where science meets art! 73 Nick
These videos are so useful in learning construction techniques. Simple and clear. TU.
Thanks very much! I'm glad they are of some help. 73
Great video. Thank you for your valued contribution to amateur radio.
Many thanks indeed Stephen. 73 Nick
Thanks for your video on the diode ring mixer. I was worried I'd get the phasing wrong, but you explained it so well. I've become obsessed with the idea of building an upconverter for my cheap sdr dongle. It doesn't have to be the best upconverter. I hope to keep it as simple as I can. If I can receive some of the shortwave band, I will have succeeded. While I've built many small projects over the years, I haven't used my soldering iron for years now. I agree with what you said about building the mixer rather than buying something. Because you can, and you learn along the way. When I first looked at schematics of diode ring mixers, it looked quite intimidating. With video's like yours, I think I can do it. I hope to build my upconverter completely from parts from my junkbox.
Hi Trevor! Thanks very much for watching and commenting. I'm really pleased that the video was helpful. That sounds like a great little project and I'm sure, as you say, you'll learn a lot in the process. Keep experimenting and having fun with it. All power to you! 73 Nick
Great Video! Ham radio really needs more people like you. I have always said that it`s ok to go and buy something to save time ONLY, if you know how it works and are very familiar with it. (There is little to learn in this case.) Otherwise you should definitely build! There are a couple of points worth mentioning about this build. 1 The three wires should really be the same diameter, otherwise they will create different impedances. 2 When you measure the impedance of the transformer, you should NOT aim for 50 ohms, rather you should aim for an impedance that is many times higher than your intended working impedance at the lowest frequency of interest. eg. Assume 50 ohm, assume this is a first converter, assume lowest rx freq is 1800khz, a good balun would be 6 x higher impedance, so we get around 50 microhenrys, 560 ohms at 1800khz. (You might need to use a softer grade of ferrite or thinner wire.) 3 The actual working impedance is set by the impedance of the terminations of the RF and IF ports, hence the importance of say a 3db pad at either end. The impedance of the LO port is not usually controlled and generally will see a high swr. I don`t usually find the need for a diplexer to dump the harmonics, I follow the mixer with a band pass filter. Complements from Chris, UK (1977 AM Die-hard).
Hi Chris, thanks for watching and for your helpful comments. I'll certainly try your suggestion of using the same diameter wires in the next one I build. I too like pi attenuators and usually try and find any excuse to put one in - usually after amplifiers. Thanks again. 73 Nick
Looking forward to tests.
Thanks Kevin. 73 Nick
I was all set to buy 25 of the 1N5711Schottky diodes when I mentioned to a friend that I was going to build a couple of your DBM's and go through the tedious job of characterizing all of them, not really a bad job, but somewhat slow for me. He got up, left the room, and came back with a bag of 150 to 200 FH1100 surplus commercial Schottky full-wave bridge diode arrays already wired together into compact vertical assemblies, so I'm sure they are already matched, but I'll take one apart and verify that. Long story short, he gave me the whole lot of them, along with 5,000 individual FH1100 diodes from that batch of surplus. It pays to have friends who scrounge surplus parts. I don't know if the FH1100 is better, comparable, or worse than the 1N5711, but they were sure the right price. Now I won't have to get, match, and assemble the diode bridges to build mixers for my projects for quite some time. Next, on to the toroid transformers... :)
Great to have friends like that John! 73 Nick
Hi Nick, thank you for your reply on another video.
You mentioned that you measured 43-ohms. My understanding, is that to achieve 50-ohms on the twisted pairs, that they should be wound with a pitch of 5-7 turns-per-inch. In looking at yours, they seemed a bit higher; maybe this contributed to the lower impedance? Anyway, nice construction work and description! 73… 😊
Hi again! Yes, you could certainly be on to something there. That's another area where some experimentation might yield some interesting results! Thanks very much. 73, Nick
@@M0NTVHomebrewing might be possible to go from just parallel runs (zip-cord style) to varying pitches, using SWR or RL of a VNA terminated into a non-reactive 50-ohm load, to determine what these impedances are and maybe how frequency affects them; this would seemingly reduce the system complexity and isolate the individual contributing influences (YT-video?).
Nice ..waiting for test video..73
Thanks very much. 73 Nick
Great job Nick - the Vienna Wireless Maker Group is about to begin a direct conversion receiver project and I'm encouraging all to build their mixers for the project. You have nicely collected all the great references, Pete, Alan, and Charlie - how can we go wrong? 73 from Virginia - Dean, KK4DAS
Thanks Dean. Happy homebrewing to you all! 73 Nick
Nice work as always Nick! I've always been of the opinion that the diode ring is a pretty thing.
Cheers Alan :)
Thanks for this Nick, the way you mix theory and practice really helps my and I'm sure others' learning curve. Don't know about overdressed, certainly the smartest TH-cam presenter this year so far! 🤣 👍
Thank you so much. I'm not sure the dress code will hold up for too much longer though! 73 Nick
What results should one expect using not matched 1n4148 (as I'm currently doing)?
Good question. Check out my video where I put this to the test: th-cam.com/video/UdcfPZgTIz4/w-d-xo.html
Can you give me advices how to solder those components i have no clue and i have this project, the copper is the ground? How to do it without soldering pads? Does island cutter work?
Hi there! Check out my video here (th-cam.com/video/CpQK0W7TY5g/w-d-xo.html) where I go through the process of preparing the board using a Dremel-like engraving tool. Hope this helps. 73 Nick
Awesome video! I just built a dbm but didn't match the diodes just to see what would happen. It works. kinda. :D Now I have to sit down and do the hard work of matching all of the ones Ive got! BTW "build me diode ring" is an awesome name for a #1 hit single! Great... now I have to write it, don't I?
Thanks very much. Yes, without the diodes being matched you'll struggle to get the balance in your double balanced mixer. When you can match the diodes they can work surprisingly well though. You could be breaking new ground with a song about diode rings!!! 73 Nick
Que ocurriria,si invierto las señales de entrada,e inyecto la señal del oscilador local,en el extremo donde esta el puerto de ((FI))??,que cambio puede haber en el funcionamiento, y perfomance??.Gracias amigo!!
¡Hola! Para ser honesto, aunque ciertamente puede intercambiar los puertos IF y RF, no he intentado inyectar la señal LO en ningún otro lugar que no sea el puerto LO. Me pregunto por qué querrías hacerlo. Pero, ¿por qué no probarlo y comprobarlo usted mismo? No romperá su mezclador si mantiene bajos los niveles de voltaje y podría ser un experimento interesante. ¡Todo lo mejor! 73 Nick
The trifilar wire, 'actually looks quite cool', okay Nick, we think so, but would my daughter? Not so sure😂
I guess it is in the eye of the beholder. Whatever floats your boat! 73, Nick
Have a look at sprat 144 page 4/5 a design that uses BAS40-04 which is a pair of diodes in a small smt package as they are on the same subwstrate they will be matched.
I think your wire is a bit thick for that core, 32swg would be better - the old vero wire prototyping wire would do nicely. Seems to be a bit rare now, but it did come in several colours.
Andy
Thanks Andy - I had a look at that article in SPRAT. David Smith who wrote it actually used a lighter gauge wire on his binocular cores but 28SWG on the FT37-43. My bifilar is actually 26SWG so (as Chris comments above) I might try using three strands of 28SWG in the next one I build. It's interesting stuff isn't it? Thanks very much. 73 Nick
@@M0NTVHomebrewing Yes very interesting stuff indeed. Some DBL mixers are soemthing that has been on my todo lost for ages (the sprat 144 design) While looking about for vero wire prompted by your video I only found a couple of colours (from vero) However I did come across some coloured enameled copper wire intended for craft work No info on what the enamel is, and no real point tryig to ask :-) but a set of ten colours should turn up in a day or so. if thay are insulated well enough, they may be a viable source of wire for building such mixers.
Andy
@@andye2005 Thanks Andy. Sounds interesting. If the wires seem OK and you give it a go please let me know how you get on. I like the idea of different colours - it presents less opportunity for me to stuff up the phasing! Thanks again. 73
Question is T2 wound in the same direction as T1?
Hi! Yes, you construct T1 and T2 to be identical. Because it is a trifilar winding you are winding three wires simultaneously as if they were one. This means you haven't got the issue of making sure separate windings all have the same phase. Just watch the connections and you should be fine. 73 Nick
👍
Cheers Steve!
how many wounds or turns did you do in T1 and T2?
Hi there. It is 10 turns of triflar wire on each. 73 Nick
How do I make a 0 gHz to 6 gHz mixer? I would like to build an ultra wide band transceiver.
Hi! I'm sorry but I've never built a mixer for anything above about 50 MHz so I can't really advise you. You'd be best off asking in some of the microwave forums. I think it will be seriously challenging though - at those kind of frequencies every mm is a significant fraction of the wavelength of your signal. HF is pretty forgiving but UHF and above is not. All the very best to you. 73, Nick
@@M0NTVHomebrewing, Thanks.
how did you determine 50Mhz as the max frequency?
Hi there! Please can you tell me when did I say that? I've just been through the video again and couldn't find any reference to maximum frequencies. If you can point me to it I'd be grateful. Thanks. 73 Nick