it boggles my mind how people still try to use the "Christianity stole from egyptian myths" argument. notice how anyone using that fallacious argument will NEVER give citations directly from the primary source documents themselves......... because if they did, their argument would immediately collapse upon itself. well done Cliffe!
Well Rome did change the sabbath and stole PaganSymbolisms like the Bal sun wheel jajajaja that’s as close as there going to get , enjoyed this comment so true God bless
@@partsrepair9393 If you think that the Bible in any way endorses a white jesus you are sadly sadly mistaken. are you an atheist? also it is actually quite comical that you are trying to use dan barker as a reliable source (the man whom in a moderated debate took issue with his opponent quoting his own published writings). i urge u to watch the debate with james white and dan barker. th-cam.com/video/-XKOlOnRsD4/w-d-xo.html
@@partsrepair9393 Are you going to give any good evidentiary arguments or are u taking the historically inaccurate position that dan barker takes? There is a reason noteworthy atheists take debating james white seriously, its because he knows the material he works with, he knows the opponents material, and he is an expert in the languages i.e. greek and hebrew. You are simply shouting assertions without providing any substance or support for them. i can easily do that as well but ill let u do that since i care about truth and intelligible conversations. you clearly have an incredibly lopsided view of christianity which is quite sad bc it is the christians who have been a light in this dark dark world for around 2000 years at this point. remember now mr parts repair, anyone who harms people groups or individuals in the name of jesus is directly contradicting Jesus Himself. Now about the talking snakes and donkeys, if we operate on the assumption that God is real and operates miracles and or strange events in time, then a talking snake and donkey is not impossible in the slightest, granted He made all things and can introduce unusual miracles into His creation as He sees fit. now you on the other hand operate on the assumption the we are all cosmic accidents, here by blind, indifferent chance. you believe that nothing created everything which is an impossibility within itself, then evolved over billions of years, and that somehow the applicability of things like mathematics just happens to work, and that things such as morality just happened to come about. you will most likely claim that morality is subjective but im willing to bet that you live as if morality is objective which would contradict your atheistic naturalistic worldview. so please explain that one to me. u are in quite a deep ditch here my friend. try actually formulating an argument with substance instead of typing nonsense in all caps.
@@partsrepair9393 You need to START engaging in relational and intelligible conversations. Why are you so angry? Are you incapable of talking about the things I mentioned? It's okay if you are, there's no shame in being uninformed.
Why? I only want to watch it to see if my original thinking is valid. Cliff was off in this one. Abrasive and out of Character. Didn't appreciate the hand and the apple very much
It's astounding on how people will work over time in arguments to disprove Christ, but eventually find themselves looking foolish. God bless Cliff on his researching.
@@jean-paulmaillet4670 I disagree, out of all of his videos I've watched, I haven't seen him do that once, but try his best to prove his point when some students make irrational claims. Are you watching most of his videos? And even if he did, why do you even care? He's a human being just like you're a human being, so please don't comment on here as if you never had days of aggravation or frustration, and I don't even know who you are. At least the man is reaching most of these lost students about who Jesus is in a respectable and accurate way while you still home waiting for your next episode on Netflix to waste your life away 🤷🏾♂️
I will admit I avoided this video for a long time. There are certain things about people you know at a glance. I knew how the first speaker would act. God Bless him, but he had no interest in anything except proving a point. It was a game to him. He was also woefully under prepared, & asked the crowd to prove his point. It was laughable. I hope he reads the Bible, especially the four Gospels as historical narratives & asks himself & God in prayer, if they are true. Great Job Cliffe! You were gracious under fire, & that is not easy. He was gunning to get under your skin. A pleasure to see you victorious, & I hope that helps him. Great example to all Christians. Either way, God knows your heart. God Bless!
I've watched dozens of the videos on this channel by now. Í personally feel for Cliff, answering the same sort of questions (like slavery and genocide) over and over again. Ofcourse these students can't know from videos like I do. But wow, what a great display of christian faith and respect for man (specifically still understandably selfabsorbed youth studying and reading popular science and stuff) to have and show such patience and debate so consistently and overall firmly.
The natural laws are actually immaterial much like the language of abstract math that define scientific laws 100 times out of 100. The real question is why should the physical realm be subject to immutable, metaphysical laws. And how could they even exist if mindless matter is the only game in town,!
The first guy breaks my heart. He’s hardened his heart so much. He can’t admit that he doesn’t comprehend what Cliff is trying to say and so he decides to puff up with knowledge.
The older I get, and I just turned 76, the more I see resistance to God through these weak arguments as the desire to avoid one's accountability before God and elevate one's self to the statue of God.
It is clear the strong biases these kids have towards the bible. Their main concern is to takedown the bible rather than understand it in context and listen to arguments. That shows their arrogance and intolerance.
@@milisha98 It takes faith to come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, even a little bit of faith. “ But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.” Hebrews:11:6.
I did a little research on Mithra. Nothing about a resurrection. Apparently he was born by a sacred stream and under a sacred tree. He was born with a dagger and torch and rode on to slay a life giving bull. He was a light god. Personally I think comparing Jesus to these figures illustrates perfectly the difference between Jesus and these other figures the guy is trying to compare.
It's mythology not a historical event but TRUTH can be presented in mythical form but we have only one historical resurrected account. From the time of Adam and Eve God has promised a redeemer Genesis(3:15) this is how tradition was past down. Shalom
Probably because to believe it would have made you a Christian; and thus your writings would just be counted under 'Christian' writings - of which we already have numerous samples.
Absolutely Nathan, i was raised Christian and I was raised up to believe the gospels, they were presented to me as fact, and that's generally how I saw them. As a child, when adults tell you things that they believe are true, it's very hard not to believe the things they tell you. But as you get older, and you are given more information which contradicts what you were originally told, it gives you food for thought and a desire to find out more. Absolutely there are 'numerous samples' of Christian writings, but how do you go about determining the truthfulness of them.? Was Mark an actual witness to the miraculous events he writes about? If these gospel accounts are of imperative importance to my eternal soul, why do we not have any original copies? Having copies of copies of copies it opens them up to corruption and falsification. Why didn't Jesus write anything down if his words were of such importance to mankind?.. better it came from him personally surely.
@bonnie43uk: Thanks, Bonnie. You've raised a number of good points, so try to be patient the reply is going to be lengthy. Who was the author of Mark? According to no fewer than four of the early church fathers (Justin Martyr, Tertullian of Carthage, Clement of Alexandria, and Irenaeus of Lyons), Mark is Peter's interpreter and wrote the gospel. While this belief was wide-spread in during the early to mid second century (so decades after authorship), we also know that the attestation to this authorship was geographically wide-spread. This is important, since information spread was slow in those days (copying the text by hand, transporting, and gaining 'oral' acceptance in a new community could take years since literacy levels were low). And given the wide geographic spread, this process had obviously happened numerous times, gradually circulating further and further out, which would have taken decades. So the authorship of the gospel was probably first attributed fairly close to the time of writing (or at the very least close enough for competing claims of authorship to become known). However, there are no competing claims to the gospel of Mark's authorship. There is also other evidence, such as numerous internal indications of Peter's influence on the gospel. Furthermore, what would be your motivation to attribute false authorship? Perhaps you wanted to introduce your own beliefs (as the Gnostics tried in the second century) by attributing authorship of a well known disciple. However, Mark was not a major figure so an unlikely choice, and the theology is in line with other early Christian writings. So for these reasons I think the early attestation to Mark's authorship is accurate, even though I know there are some modern scholars who have different ideas (and I've listened to a few scholarly debates on the issue). Why don't we have any original copies? Quite simply papyrus can't last that long - especially that which was often handled, and not stored in pristine conditions. But more to the point, it's not the writing material but the information that matters. For example, my great grandma had an good cookie recipe. I've got a copy from my mum, who got it from her mum, who got it from great-grandma. Does it matter that I don't have the original piece of paper? It's information, not material that matters. Now can I be sure that the information was copied accurately - even when great grandma's recipe was lost? Like perhaps, it really had 'raisins' rather than 'sultanas' in the recipe? One way I could do this is by collating the recipes my other relatives have. I could look at my mums recipe, and I could ask my aunties and uncles for theirs. Now, imagine I found that one of the recipes did have 'raisins', and another four had 'sultanas'. Can you guess who had made the transmission error? It is most probable that the one who copied 'raisins' had made the error, and the original said 'sultanas'. Now, with New Testament writings, we have over 40,000 copies. Yes, as skeptics point out there were numerous errors (although most are spelling errors, or different ways of saying the same thing). And by using the technique above, we know with almost complete certainty not only what the originals said, but what the transmission errors were. There are only a four contentious issues - and absolutely none of them have any impact on any tenant of Christian belief. Now, why didn't Jesus write down his words? To borrow an analogy that Cliff used, in a court of law which would the judge more convincing? The accused putting up his hand and saying, 'I wasn't at the crime scene, your honour', or a two or three witnesses saying, 'we didn't see the accused at the crime scene, your honour'? There's also a probably better reason; human-kind has a tendency to deify things. If we had the original writings of Jesus, would stop a skeptic from still proclaiming that it's made up rubbish? Of course not. However, would the original writing would be idolised and deified (like the Muslim's do the Quran), and draw millions of pilgrims (just like ancient pieces of wood that allegedly came from the cross of Jesus does)? Almost certainly. So all it would encourage is idiology and not truth. Besides, there is something else that Jesus promised something else with even far more certainty than pieces of paper passed down over generations. He promised his Holy Spirit would remain and testify to his truth. Now, I understand as a skeptic that is laughable for you. But for those of us who have experienced him, it is not. My wife was not a believer. Many years ago, she and her ex-husband were having a baby, and she suffered a placental abruption which nearly killed her and the baby. Her life spiraled out of control - after the birth she was unable to look after the baby, and her husband was jailed for beating the baby almost to death (leaving him with brain damage). Having barely enough to live on let alone taking care of a baby with special needs, he was taken away to a foster home. My wife had continuous bleeding that lasted years afterwards, and what little funds she had were spent on doctors and specialists. Despite undertaking several Dilation and Curettages's and a lot of investigative work, different medications, it persisted and the cause was not found. She was told numerous times by different specialists that she was unable to have another baby - and if she did it would probably kill her. And that's when we met, and I she let me pray her her every night, even though she herself was not religious and almost despised Christianity. She always wanted another baby; she just wanted us to be a family, but we heeded the doctors advice, and we were not hopeful of any change. And then one day, Jesus came to her in a vision, and showed her a scene with us and two children playing on a beach. Not long after that vision my wife stopped bleeding, and soon after she conceived. We now have two girls (a 5 and 2 year old), just as her vision showed. And she is now a Christian, and has since occasionally had other visions of Jesus.
The second guy answers his own questions. Example: He asked, Why do we bury the dead when Jesus said let the dead bury the dead. The guy who was talking to Jesus said my father had just died let me bury the dead before I follow you. To me, it seems clear Jesus was talking directly to this man. He said Follow me, don't worry about your father who just died. The (spiritually dead) will bury and take care of him. Remember, Jesus traveled, so if he left, you may not get another opportunity to follow him again.
I've taken physics too and he makes sense to himself, but did not get cliffs analogy. Cliffs analogy wasn't if the apple was material or Gods hand isn't material like the guy was trying to argue. Cliffs analogy was simply to show how God can introduce his hand to change a law.
***** Cliff was actually spot on. there are two basic points the guy was missing because he couldn't understand what cliff was saying. 1.when he was saying its one thing for a physical being to put his had v a non physical being, his listening skills did not allow him to realise the cliff was saying God... this non physical being created the world lol. (the physical) 2. cliff was also brilliant in communicating the specific analogy with the apple. Gravity is still pulling the apple down while the apple is in The hand but here comes an intervention to stop the effect of gravity.
***** Not really because gravity is the thing that causes it to fall. A hand annuls the EFFECT.. he uses the words that seem to technical mind as the essence of gravity. but he is trying to communicate that the effect is annulled. evidenced by his analogy and disagreeing with the guys assertion that he believes that cliff is teaching that god redefines gravity for a second. "But God either physically catches the apple or changes the law" This is a false dichotomy. A spiritual being that CREATED the physical universe cannot be bound by the physical. it was funny when I heard that objection, the guy just couldn't understand because he was not listening. (when he says change the law he defines it as "what normally happens")
+Victor Swans Correct. But be aware we may already have a presupposition on what some laws are. e.g a man can create a law saying every time you play dead a bear will leave you alone and sure enough when he does it a few times the bear leaves him alone. but then one day he is mauled by the bear whilst doing that. the "laws" of the universe are derived from physical interaction of things. how the spirit interacts with the universe is another matter. Don't you think so? ps when I mention the point that the spirit that created the world is not bound by the physical I meant that there is no disparity in a spiritual being interacting with the physical as the spiritual created the physical and thus by necessity interacts with the physical.
I like intellectual debates and I usually like Cliff’s style; but in this one I felt that the intellectual exchange must also be accompanied by love and compassion to fully embody Christian evangelization
The act of answering the young man shows compassion. Cliff didn’t dismiss him. Cliff took time to answer his question and Cliff doesn’t blow smoke at people, he is honest and tries to answer their questions.
13:40: I love how Cliffe says, "... evil enters the human experience..." If it enters (and it did enter) it had to have entered from somewhere else... Some people claim that there was no death pre-Fall... When in fact, [the] Satan had already been kicked out of heaven due to his rebellion because God, being that He knows and sees all, would not have knowingly allowed Satan to remain in heaven having gone down to make mischief within the Eden
The hatred of slavery comes from the spirit of Love blowing through one's soul. That is WHY people get upset about the subject, it's because HE is upset by it! God created good things for humans to experience, so it is a travesty for an evil being to get a human to twist the experience that was supposed to be good into something unpleasant for someone else! We like to make and do things, have projects, and accomplish things for our loved ones, so one person shouldn't hijack another into working for him and his family instead. Sex is supposed to be great, so forcing it on someone roughly so as to hurt them is another travesty that the Holy Spirit is repulsed by...also God is faithful, so abandoning or killing the baby offends God's spirit deeply. We all have Him in the "outer courts" of our souls, & His rules are written on our hearts. Ignoring them to be selfish is like searing one's conscience with a hot iron, Scripture says. It involves defining good and evil in order to see all this from the point of view of the Creator, of both the experiences and the beings doing the experiencing. It's the "seared" people giving the nasty answers, and having a cocky attitude towards Cliffe and his message of Love and Forgiveness from God.
I heard an interesting insight recently: one of the big reasons the Germans of the 1800s tried to discredit the Resurrection of Christ by referring to ancient myths (This was later shown to be false.) is simple: they were anti-Semitic. They could not stand to think that the idea of a bodily resurrection came from Jewish sources.
This makes no sense as the whole religion is based on the story of a Jew modifying a Jewish religion. It's no secret that Jesus was killed for proclaiming to be king of the Jews wasn't he?
Excellent job as usual Cliffe! Both gentlemen in this vid furthers the evidence that atheism/humanism is in systematic failure. The absolute refusal to listen and using redundant, debunked arguments, from the first guy, to cherry-picking and jumping all over the Bible by constantly talking as a way to sound smart, the second guy, are the some of the last attempts of atheists trying to justify their atheism by attempting to make Christianity look bad.
I'm talking generally, both Christians and atheists cherry pick, I'm sure if I went through a few of Cliffe's video's I'd see him mention a certain biblical passage to back up his point. I'd be very surprised if Cliffe never quotes from the book he believes in. I may be wrong. EDIT: at 25:35 Cliffe mentions the Apostle Paul in 1st Cor: 9 .. he's cherry picking a quote to make his point about Sports. I think it's interesting that there is nothing in the bible about Golf, it's one of the top games in the world and yet Jesus never mentions Golf. Think about it. No Golf.
Tom Horwat Okay I see what you are talking about. Yes in general however like I said that the majority of people who claim to be atheist, not all, use debunked arguments, not necessarily cherry picking the Bible.
2:01 An analogy is an analogy because it is about a different thing. If you ask for an analogy to be on the same thing, it is not an analogy, but a demonstration you want.
It's pretty obvious the first gentleman has a mental stumbling block. Regardless of evidence, he immediately rules out anything super natural. So, there's basically no point in giving him any evidence because, by definition, he won't accept any of it on principle alone. He'd rather blind himself to the truth than accept the possibility of anything super natural. Also, the analogy of the apple works perfectly well. However, I would have brought up video games to him. Think about this, in the video game Mario, we normally control Mario and can normally jump a certain height. Now, the programmer of Mario can go into the game, alter the height of which Mario can jump, and change many other things as well. To the programmer, this wouldn't be an issue. They literally made the game from the grond up. To us, this would be amazing to see. Because all we see is the normal height that Mario can jump and every other normal other regular thing we see in the game. But to the programmer, it would be easy to change. However, try telling the programmer to make Mario jump and not jump at the same time. Or what about telling the programmer to make Mario and Princess Peach be the same character and 2 different characters at the same time? You see the issue? God, of course, could have possibly made a universe where the laws of contradiction don't apply or where 2+2 equals 5, but that is not what he did. His character is not illogical. So, yes, we can see that making a square circle and 2+2 equal 5 is not the same as turning water to wine, walking on water, or healing the sick. In a similar way, a video game programmer can make Mario jump higher, but they can't make Mario jump and not jump at the same time. In saying all of that, I really do pray for that young man. He's obviously older now. But my heart still goes out to him deeply. In the might name of Jesus I hope and pray that he seeks and finds the truth. Amen. P.S. thank you to Cliff and everyone who makes these videos. You all are a huge blessing 🙌 🙏
I appreciate your boldness in Christ and willingness to go out into the world to evangelize. I noticed the Institutes by John Calvin in your library. Keep studying reformed theology!
You chose a shocking example by citing the Big Bang Theory, which was hypothesized by a Catholic priest (but avid astronomer), Reverend Georges Lemaître. It challenged the scientific consensus of an eternal universe, and was rejected by the scientific community as 'mere pandering to his theistic beliefs' and that speculating a beginning was just Lemaître's way to get a divine foot in the door. Despite Lemaître's protest that his work should stand or fall on its own accord, astro-physicist Sir Arthur Eddington stated it was "unjustifiable from a physical point of view". Albert Einstein told him in 1927 that "Your calculations are correct, but your grasp of physics is abominable", although they formed a friendship and later stated he liked the beauty and simplicity of it. Lemaître was also the first to observe that the universe was expanding and speculated further expansion, and not contracting. However, the scientific community was largely skeptical of Lemaître's work until Hubble's observations later confirmed them.
Roughly 19 minutes in - the dude asking about the quote "let the dead bury the dead," happy Cliffe answered that correctly, regarding the Jewish tradition. It wasn't that the man's father was dead or dying, because if he had been, he wouldn't have been amongst Jesus and His company. Jewish law stated that a person had to be with their father when they were dead or dying, because they were responsible for burying them and taking care of all that. If a man left his family and did not do these duties, the man would lose favor with his family. The man was more concerned with losing favor with his family than following the living Christ. Jesus was speaking symbolically again when He answered, but also expressing (as Cliffe said) for the man to get his priorities straight: "Let the (spiritually) dead bury the (physically) dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God." --Luke 9:60 Cliffe does so well with so many of these students, it amazes me. Very educational for all people from all backgrounds to watch these videos. If only more settings like this were possible - where people share beliefs and ideas, respectfully.
I get what the guy is saying, however in the realm of science not everything that exists is material, and thus to limit the intervening things only to the material (molecular or atomic) you have excluded parts of natural science itself that tells us that there are indeed things that are not made of visible and tangible matter that we have defined
If only these kids who are determined to misunderstand were as smart as they think they are. They're not. Cliffe exposed their ignorance and arrogance...that always go together.
cliff.. have to ever heard of "zeitgeist: the movie?" it is a TH-cam video/movie that has convinced many with lies of characters like Mithra. when they, like the first student in this video, refer to characters that predate Christianity by thousands, that have the same characteristics, of years more than likely they are referencing this video. check it out. It had me at one point in my life, until I figured out it was all a lies (by the father of lies) And I found truth is my Jesus. God Bless you for all you do. I enjoy your video. they challenge me on how to deal with knuckle heads as I once was.
Jap, I also saw this stuff and believed it until I looked up the ancient texts. You can't find anything of those claims in the texts, so yes, it's a lie and a proven one.
I think the analogy would be more valid if the apply stopped above the ground without the hand. As far as the hand stopping the apple the ground stops the apple as well. It's OK to defer.
you have demonstrated in just three posts with me that you hear but don't listen, read but cant comprehend and resort to insults because you cant refute. thank you. And you didn't even get my joke referring to projectile vomit because you were too busy trying to think up some clever new "put downs" you could type. Goodbye to you and good luck with all that
listening would mean learning listening would mean to take an input and have to think about it colleges and even high schools Now teach not to do so just to have a good commands and to do what they're told and right now this young man is trying to do the same to Cliffe to declare what he supposed to know rather than to have dialogue.
Kids at college I am speaking to you. Do you know how many doctors including myself have seen things that can never be explained by us science or any natural law? We have seen what are called miracles. We have seen children that were going to die recover without our assistance. Not every doctor sees this but some of us are lucky enough to have had somebody not die because of nothing we did. Science had reached the end of its course there was no place to go and no way to treat somebody yet we have seen them get better heal recover live on.
So does this happen randomly or as a response to prayer of the faithful? If not random then it should be easily detectable in statistics of health outcomes which are being constantly conducted. I have never had a doctor ask me my faith or recommend prayer. Are these doctors doing us a disservice? Keen on your doctor's perspective.
The boys question is circular reasoning. “Natural laws cannot be changed therefore a miracle cannot change natural law because natural law cannot be changed.” Where his flaw is, without law to establish the normal processes of things, we would not be able to know when those normal processes were interrupted. If everything was chaos all the time then God bringing law and order to the chaos would be Him showing his hand, a miracle. Exactly as we see that everything is ordered in laws and when God defies those norms he shows his hand. His second point on the history, he does need to study more. Those sources predating Jesus are not original but actually altered account dating after Jesus. A lot of other religions after Jesus went back and changed their god myths to be similar to Jesus. We know this because we have the accounts from before Jesus and the writings after Jesus. And we can see the plagiarism of Jesus in the timeline of History. Don’t just look up stories but look at the dates of the documents. Buddha lived before Jesus but only hundreds of years after Jesus did the religion adapt his story into a book and try to incorporate Jesus’s teachings and life.
👏👏👏👏👏👏 congratulations to that first guy for wasting 11 minutes and 28 seconds of my life that i can never get back due to his ignorance 😧. Proverbs 18:2 - "A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his own opinion" 😴😴😴😴😴
♦️The Saint will come back to life in the flesh . 1Thess.4: 16, Mt.27:52 • If we are to believe literally the prophecies of Scripture, we should expect that when Jesus comes again, the saints will come back to life in the flesh. Their bodies, buried in the earth and completely decomposed, will be reconstituted to their original state. • Given the modern state of our knowledge, these prophecies do not make rational sense. This brings great confusion to the Christian faith. • Therefore,it is important that we elucidate the true meaning of resurrection. • Resurrection means to come back to life. To come back to life implies that we have been dead. • To fathom the meaning of resurrection. we must clarify the biblical concepts of life and death. ♦️Biblical Concept of Life and Death ♦️ •When a follower asked Jesus if he could go home to bury his deceased father, Jesus said, "Leave the dead to bury their own dead." (Luke 9:60) •These words of Jesus show 2️⃣ different concepts of life and death: 1️⃣ first, "death" means the end of physical life, as was the case of the disciples' deceased father who was to be buried. "Life" in the sense means the state in which the physical self maintains its physiological functions. 2️⃣ The second concept of life and death concerns those living people who were to bury the deceased man; death refers to leaving the bosom of God's love and falling under the dominion of Satan. The corresponding concept of life refers to the state of living in accordance with God's Will, within the dominion of God's infinite love. •Therefore, even if a person's physical self is alive, if he dwells apart from God's dominion and is in servitude to Satan, he is dead as judged by the original standard of value. •A similar conclusion can be drawn from the Lord's words of judgment upon the faithless people of the church in Sardis in Rev. 3:1: "You have the name of being alive, and you are dead." •When Jesus said in John 11:25, "He who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live," he meant that those who believe in him and live within the realm of God's dominion have life, for even after their physical bodies have returned to the soil, their spirits enjoy life in God's dominion. ♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️ The Death Caused by the Human Fall • Which of the 2️⃣ concepts of death refers to the death brought about by the Fall of the first human ancestors❓ • God created human beings to grow old and return to dust; physical death was alloted to human beings regardless of whether or not they fell. • According to the Principle of Creation, the flesh is to be discarded when it has grown old and weak, and only the unclothed spirit self enters the spirit world and lives there eternally. • Nothing material can live forever. Human beings are no exception; our bodies cannot live eternally. If human beings were to live on earth forever in the flesh, why did God create the spirit world as our final destination❓ •The spirit world was not created after the Fall as a place for fallen spirits to abide. Rather, it is part of the original creation, created as the place where individuals who fulfill the purpose of creation will enjoy eternal life as spirits after their life on earth has come to an end. • Most people are attached to their earthly life. They regret its passing because, due to the Fall, they are ignorant of the fact that after they discard their clothes of flesh, they are meant to live forever in the beautiful and eternal spirit world. ♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️ • The death caused by the Fall refers to the death through Adam and Eve's eating of the fruit. • God told Adam and Eve that on the day they ate of the fruit they would surely die. (Gen. 2:17) • Since God so warned them, it must be that when they ate of the fruit, they did in fact die. Yet after the Fall they continued their earthly life and bore children, who multiplied to form today's corrupt human society. • Hence, the death caused by the Fall does not mean the end of physical life but rather the descent from the good dominion of God into the evil dominion of Satan. • It is written. "He who does not love remains in death." (1 John 3:14) Thus, a person who does not love his neighbors with God's love is dead, even though he remains active and alive on earth. •This is also the sense of the verses "The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life" (Rom. 6:23) • And "To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the spirit is life and peace." (Rom. 8:6) ♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️ • Many have hitherto believed that the death caused by the Fall was the body's return to dust. • Consequently, they have interpreted the biblical concept of resurrection as revival from physical death, and believed that resurrection of the dead involves the biological regeneration of their bodies from the dust. •A decomposed body cannot be restored to its original state. Furthermore, it is not necessary for a spirit to take on another physical body when he is meant to enjoy eternal life in the vast spirit world. • Resurrection may be defined as the process of being restored from the death caused by the Fall to life, from the realm of Satan's dominion to the realm of God's direct dominion, through the providence of restoration. • Accordingly, whenever we repent of our sins and rise to a higher state of goodness, we are resurrected to that degree. •John 5:24 illustrates the process of resurrection: "He who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life." • Based on this verse, we can affirm that resurrection means to leave the bosom of Satan and return to the bosom of God. ♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️ What Changes Does Resurrection Cause in Human Beings❓ • Adam and Eve died when they ate of the fruit. Nevertheless, no significant external change took place in them. At most there were changes in their countenances due to the anxiety and fear they felt over having fallen. •Likewise, no significant external changes should be expected to take place in fallen people when they are resurrected to the state prior to the Fall. •Jesus was truly a man who fulfilled the purpose of creation. Nevertheless, judged by his outward appearance, Jesus was not noticeably different from ordinary people. • The changes a person experiences when he is resurrected and enters the governance of God take place in his heart and spirit. These internal changes also purify his body, transforming it from a haunt of Satan into a temple of God. RSMM,
They just repeat the wrong understanding of what 'slavery' was in ancient Israel. So frustrating to see how badly educated they are but they think they are so knowledgeable.
It's crazy how people keep coming back to this when the Bible makes such a big deal about God freeing the Israelites from slavery in Egypt. Obviously it wasn't okay then.
For those who wonder why Leviticus allowance of slavery, I recommend youtube "racism and slavery" by pastor Alan Nolen of the Cornerstone Fellowship church. He answere all of my questions about the Bible and slavery. And I got to say, my GOD is GOOD.
Pink shirt guy has so many questions, which is great, but no interest in listening to amazing answers. Hope he learns to use his ears more than his mouth
The Bible is against slavery in both Old and New Testament! In the OT Exodus 21:16 states "16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death." Kidnapping and selling would result with the death of the seller, but Leviticus records that people sold themselves back then also. Leviticus 25:47 "47 And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and ****sell himself*** unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family:" So any person who an Israelite bought, would have to willingly sell themselves, or any other seller would be breaking the law according to Exodus 21:16! It seems that Cliff is not aware of this unfortunately. In the NT we find 1 Timothy 1:9-10 " Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for ****menstealers****, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" Here again we see menstealing (stealeth a man) as being contrary to God's doctrine, and is grouped in with everything ungodly.
Every society has a moral code so God gave the Levitical law to a people that had no king and thus no laws to govern their society. Kids like these and atheists do not understand this which is why they poke from the OT laws so much in an attempt to show God of the Bible as immoral. They do not understand He is personal and had those laws with those particular people because their hearts were so hard and had to be extremely strict with them to try and pry their hearts away from sinning.
I just have to say, majority of the kids are learning from the surface level due to technology, I believe and they don't go in enough to go in depth with what their learning.
This guy simply wants to be right much more than he wishes to see someone convinced that Christ alone will save them if they confess Jesus as Lord and believe that God has raised Him from the dead. He is not doing the work of an Evangelist he is working at being a debater! He allows the opposition to set the parameters of the debate and uses his debating skills to win said debate. The Gospel is the word of God and the promise of that word of God is it will never return void. My words, my debating skills will always return void!
This outreach must have been quite a few years ago ,because in 2022 you would probably see less people listening to Cliffe because they are too busy on Facebook or Instagram or listening to people like Lady Gaga or Kim Kardashian
CLIFFE WAS RUDE IN THE FIRST ONE. When Aron Ra did that to him everyone cried. He shouts down the students and loses badly to adults who have studied this. CLIFFE IS AN INTELLECTUAL BULLY
I wish he preached the gospel, and not philosophy, there's no power in this, people need to be saved, not argued with, and debated... All these kids listening...The Gospel is the seed of the word.
if they are not with you they re against you light vs dark good vs evil lazerus and the rich ruler there are only two ways in life one that leads to death or the one that leads to life or destruction or holy
You just didn't explain your example to his understanding. You kept on saying that God has a physical hand, so that is why he misunderstood your example.
I am trying to help a friend on here who has lost faith I won't name them but they're looking for an answer does anyone on here know if there's ever been a person by a miracle of God been cured of spina bifida not necessarily by doctors medicines because her I would have heard about that but specifically by God please let me know I want to be able to share that with them thank you!
It really pisses me off especially the second guy he asks Cliffe all these questions and can't wait to talk over him as he's about to answer him. Very dishonest.
I don't necessarily agree with your approach or the way that you respond to the way people are challenging you. You've made accusations against the kid that obviously make him out to be the bad guy because you're not completely sound in your deliverance and I think it's a cheap way or form of a scapegoat. (I'm a Christian by the way so this isn't a biased observation if that's what you were thinking)
this guy is trying to find fish in land but not in ocean....God's action area is spirit level not body or flesh level... God's hand fix the issue at soul so that it replicates into the body... 😇😇
Angelo Stevens How do you know God is fiction? You have posed no argument to defend your position other than the fallacious, "It's old, therefore its false."
Let me correct myself. How do you know the gospel accounts of Jesus's life are fiction? What evidence do you have to back your claim up? "I never said it's false because it's old" What on earth were you suggesting when you said "from Bronze and Iron Age Middle Eastern mythology invented by people who didn't even know the Earth revolves around the Sun" What was the point of even making that statement? The time period in which a document was written or the scientific knowledge of the writer, has nothing to do with the truth of the document. Would a better way of interpreting your comment be "Theists get their fiction from old stuff"
Or have I completely missed the point of your original comment and you are actually defending the claims of conspiracy movie zeitgeist, BA in Greek mythology acharya s, bill maher, and gerald massey? Which in that case, hahahahahaha.
"What evidence do I have to back the claim that religion is man made? We have a fairly good historical account of the origin and evolution of many religions. These creations and changes are evidently a product of man. The fact that many of these religions, including the Abraham religions freely admit that their texts were written by men. The fact that we've never had a verified case of any religion being created by anything other than man." I agree! 100% All holy books were written by men. So what? Does that mean they are false? I've never met any Christian that has claimed the bible was written by the hand of God. No where does the bible even claim it was written by God.Also, where can I learn about the great history and origins of Christianity or Judaism that would convince me to believe Christianity is merely a lie con, delusion, a legend that evolved over time, an attempt at establishing political power, attempting to control others, etc. "The fact that no religion has provided any knowledge that is verifiable or of any piratical value which wasn't already available at the time it was created." Again, so what? Because the writers of the gospel accounts did not include advanced scientific information means what? Does that mean its false? Does that mean its untrustworthy? Where are you getting the qualifier "For a book to be divinely inspired in must give us amazing advanced scientific information that only God could know! If it doesn't its not true" That is what your argument sounds like. "it's mathematically impossible for us to have the population size we have now if everyone came from Adam and Eve just 5000-6000 years ago, to name just a few glaring issues." You are making the mistake of assuming every Christian is a young earth creationist. Did you know that many Christians including Augustine, a Doctor of the Church, believed the creation account of Genesis was not a literal 24 hour day story? This was around 300-400 AD! Did you know the Catholic Church is open to evolution, the big bang, and a 13 billion year old universe? You know the big bang was first proposed by a Catholic Priest? Georges Lemaitre? In my experience, it's in the American evangelical conservatives that you'll find the Young-Earth ideology thriving. Do you disagree? do you believe that the bible ONLY teaches a young earth view? "To point out how silly it is to assume that the myths, laws, and notions of morality of some primitive people who didn't even have the most basic understanding of reality somehow had the ultimate answers for everything." Because the writers of the gospels did not have advanced scientific truth that means that they didn't have any truth? No one is claiming the writers are all knowing. "The Bible makes all sorts of claims that we now know are untrue." Can you give an example?
Angelo Stevens, I have a question. Can you please sight one of your claims above? "The Bible makes all sorts of claims that we now know are untrue." Can you please tell me one of those claims?
The first guy destroyed Cliffe and that's why he asked him to sit down. He could not adequately defend his position and he knew it. Cliffe got heated because he knew he was being slain by a college kid and his ego couldn't take it. Well done college kid. You give me hope that kids won't be so easily manipulated into believing in fairy tales like generations before.
The kid spoke fallacy, there are no other accounts of a resurrection other than Osiris who was clearly an Egyptian myth. You can't go around in circles when there are other students waiting to have a turn.
When cliffe loses a point he makes it personal to muddy the waters. Cliffe says you don't respect me or you think I'm stupid, very emotional. You can say these others were myths, but they were believed just like cliffes Yeshua. Cliffe is arrogant and condescending. Empty assertions with no tangible evidence.
it boggles my mind how people still try to use the "Christianity stole from egyptian myths" argument. notice how anyone using that fallacious argument will NEVER give citations directly from the primary source documents themselves......... because if they did, their argument would immediately collapse upon itself. well done Cliffe!
These are pretty much just kids who watched 'Religulous'
Well Rome did change the sabbath and stole PaganSymbolisms like the Bal sun wheel jajajaja that’s as close as there going to get , enjoyed this comment so true God bless
@@partsrepair9393 If you think that the Bible in any way endorses a white jesus you are sadly sadly mistaken. are you an atheist? also it is actually quite comical that you are trying to use dan barker as a reliable source (the man whom in a moderated debate took issue with his opponent quoting his own published writings). i urge u to watch the debate with james white and dan barker. th-cam.com/video/-XKOlOnRsD4/w-d-xo.html
@@partsrepair9393 Are you going to give any good evidentiary arguments or are u taking the historically inaccurate position that dan barker takes? There is a reason noteworthy atheists take debating james white seriously, its because he knows the material he works with, he knows the opponents material, and he is an expert in the languages i.e. greek and hebrew. You are simply shouting assertions without providing any substance or support for them. i can easily do that as well but ill let u do that since i care about truth and intelligible conversations. you clearly have an incredibly lopsided view of christianity which is quite sad bc it is the christians who have been a light in this dark dark world for around 2000 years at this point. remember now mr parts repair, anyone who harms people groups or individuals in the name of jesus is directly contradicting Jesus Himself. Now about the talking snakes and donkeys, if we operate on the assumption that God is real and operates miracles and or strange events in time, then a talking snake and donkey is not impossible in the slightest, granted He made all things and can introduce unusual miracles into His creation as He sees fit. now you on the other hand operate on the assumption the we are all cosmic accidents, here by blind, indifferent chance. you believe that nothing created everything which is an impossibility within itself, then evolved over billions of years, and that somehow the applicability of things like mathematics just happens to work, and that things such as morality just happened to come about. you will most likely claim that morality is subjective but im willing to bet that you live as if morality is objective which would contradict your atheistic naturalistic worldview. so please explain that one to me. u are in quite a deep ditch here my friend. try actually formulating an argument with substance instead of typing nonsense in all caps.
@@partsrepair9393 You need to START engaging in relational and intelligible conversations. Why are you so angry? Are you incapable of talking about the things I mentioned? It's okay if you are, there's no shame in being uninformed.
I am simply addicted to his videos (the same video I watch more than once). I have learn so much. thankyou and God bless you...
Why?
I only want to watch it to see if my original thinking is valid. Cliff was off in this one. Abrasive and out of Character.
Didn't appreciate the hand and the apple very much
@@landofthefree2023 well I disagree
I have become addicted too...lots to learn and think and debate!
I'm enjoying the lesson and the gospel he preaches to these college pupils
@fesant same 😂
It's astounding on how people will work over time in arguments to disprove Christ, but eventually find themselves looking foolish. God bless Cliff on his researching.
May these kids find Christ.
yes you are right the fool is plenty but wise few
Ciff gets agitated and defensive when he knows his knowledge is wrong
@@jean-paulmaillet4670 I disagree, out of all of his videos I've watched, I haven't seen him do that once, but try his best to prove his point when some students make irrational claims. Are you watching most of his videos? And even if he did, why do you even care? He's a human being just like you're a human being, so please don't comment on here as if you never had days of aggravation or frustration, and I don't even know who you are. At least the man is reaching most of these lost students about who Jesus is in a respectable and accurate way while you still home waiting for your next episode on Netflix to waste your life away 🤷🏾♂️
@@jean-paulmaillet4670raising your voice in order to help those who are intellectually dishonest is not wrong.
I will admit I avoided this video for a long time. There are certain things about people you know at a glance. I knew how the first speaker would act. God Bless him, but he had no interest in anything except proving a point. It was a game to him. He was also woefully under prepared, & asked the crowd to prove his point. It was laughable. I hope he reads the Bible, especially the four Gospels as historical narratives & asks himself & God in prayer, if they are true.
Great Job Cliffe! You were gracious under fire, & that is not easy. He was gunning to get under your skin. A pleasure to see you victorious, & I hope that helps him. Great example to all Christians. Either way, God knows your heart. God Bless!
I've watched dozens of the videos on this channel by now. Í personally feel for Cliff, answering the same sort of questions (like slavery and genocide) over and over again. Ofcourse these students can't know from videos like I do. But wow, what a great display of christian faith and respect for man (specifically still understandably selfabsorbed youth studying and reading popular science and stuff) to have and show such patience and debate so consistently and overall firmly.
The natural laws are actually immaterial much like the language of abstract math that define scientific laws 100 times out of 100. The real question is why should the physical realm be subject to immutable, metaphysical laws. And how could they even exist if mindless matter is the only game in town,!
The first guy breaks my heart. He’s hardened his heart so much. He can’t admit that he doesn’t comprehend what Cliff is trying to say and so he decides to puff up with knowledge.
Same. And he's got a timid demeanour too. I feel so sorry for him
I was saved from getting hit by a car by a angelic being I was 15, now I'm 43 and I still feel that touch and remember that Day.... It's all real
You are awesome Cliffe! God bless you!
I think the last guy had so many prepared questions he didn't have time to listen.
Exactly, really frustrating.
Anyone can read the Bible, but not all will relate to what it says. That's where the Holy Spirit comes in.
Correct, the Holy Ghost will open the eyes of the true believer that truly seek Him, Jesus Christ.
The older I get, and I just turned 76, the more I see resistance to God through these weak arguments as the desire to avoid one's accountability before God and elevate one's self to the statue of God.
Anyone who tries to argue by breaking down what you just said will get nowhere in their argument
It was a great analogy Cliff and it was a great analogy and explanation of question by the student
He preached the gospel!! Yay
truth will set you free
Ultimately, the message of Jesus resonates with people…
Great analogy!
awesome video love to see some of your sermons at church get posted keep up the great work cliffe
It is clear the strong biases these kids have towards the bible. Their main concern is to takedown the bible rather than understand it in context and listen to arguments. That shows their arrogance and intolerance.
The kid clearly knew bible verses, but did not know how to actually read the Bible, as all of the examples he used were taken out of context.
They dont read in context they just grab and use it
@@milisha98 It takes faith to come to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, even a little bit of faith. “ But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.” Hebrews:11:6.
I did a little research on Mithra. Nothing about a resurrection. Apparently he was born by a sacred stream and under a sacred tree. He was born with a dagger and torch and rode on to slay a life giving bull. He was a light god. Personally I think comparing Jesus to these figures illustrates perfectly the difference between Jesus and these other figures the guy is trying to compare.
It's mythology not a historical event but TRUTH can be presented in mythical form but we have only one historical resurrected account. From the time of Adam and Eve God has promised a redeemer Genesis(3:15) this is how tradition was past down. Shalom
Outside of the New Testament there is very little credible evidence of an historical resurrected account.
Probably because to believe it would have made you a Christian; and thus your writings would just be counted under 'Christian' writings - of which we already have numerous samples.
Absolutely Nathan, i was raised Christian and I was raised up to believe the gospels, they were presented to me as fact, and that's generally how I saw them. As a child, when adults tell you things that they believe are true, it's very hard not to believe the things they tell you. But as you get older, and you are given more information which contradicts what you were originally told, it gives you food for thought and a desire to find out more. Absolutely there are 'numerous samples' of Christian writings, but how do you go about determining the truthfulness of them.? Was Mark an actual witness to the miraculous events he writes about? If these gospel accounts are of imperative importance to my eternal soul, why do we not have any original copies? Having copies of copies of copies it opens them up to corruption and falsification. Why didn't Jesus write anything down if his words were of such importance to mankind?.. better it came from him personally surely.
@bonnie43uk: Thanks, Bonnie. You've raised a number of good points, so try to be patient the reply is going to be lengthy.
Who was the author of Mark? According to no fewer than four of the early church fathers (Justin Martyr, Tertullian of Carthage, Clement of Alexandria, and Irenaeus of Lyons), Mark is Peter's interpreter and wrote the gospel. While this belief was wide-spread in during the early to mid second century (so decades after authorship), we also know that the attestation to this authorship was geographically wide-spread. This is important, since information spread was slow in those days (copying the text by hand, transporting, and gaining 'oral' acceptance in a new community could take years since literacy levels were low). And given the wide geographic spread, this process had obviously happened numerous times, gradually circulating further and further out, which would have taken decades. So the authorship of the gospel was probably first attributed fairly close to the time of writing (or at the very least close enough for competing claims of authorship to become known). However, there are no competing claims to the gospel of Mark's authorship. There is also other evidence, such as numerous internal indications of Peter's influence on the gospel. Furthermore, what would be your motivation to attribute false authorship? Perhaps you wanted to introduce your own beliefs (as the Gnostics tried in the second century) by attributing authorship of a well known disciple. However, Mark was not a major figure so an unlikely choice, and the theology is in line with other early Christian writings. So for these reasons I think the early attestation to Mark's authorship is accurate, even though I know there are some modern scholars who have different ideas (and I've listened to a few scholarly debates on the issue).
Why don't we have any original copies? Quite simply papyrus can't last that long - especially that which was often handled, and not stored in pristine conditions. But more to the point, it's not the writing material but the information that matters. For example, my great grandma had an good cookie recipe. I've got a copy from my mum, who got it from her mum, who got it from great-grandma. Does it matter that I don't have the original piece of paper? It's information, not material that matters. Now can I be sure that the information was copied accurately - even when great grandma's recipe was lost? Like perhaps, it really had 'raisins' rather than 'sultanas' in the recipe? One way I could do this is by collating the recipes my other relatives have. I could look at my mums recipe, and I could ask my aunties and uncles for theirs. Now, imagine I found that one of the recipes did have 'raisins', and another four had 'sultanas'. Can you guess who had made the transmission error? It is most probable that the one who copied 'raisins' had made the error, and the original said 'sultanas'. Now, with New Testament writings, we have over 40,000 copies. Yes, as skeptics point out there were numerous errors (although most are spelling errors, or different ways of saying the same thing). And by using the technique above, we know with almost complete certainty not only what the originals said, but what the transmission errors were. There are only a four contentious issues - and absolutely none of them have any impact on any tenant of Christian belief.
Now, why didn't Jesus write down his words? To borrow an analogy that Cliff used, in a court of law which would the judge more convincing? The accused putting up his hand and saying, 'I wasn't at the crime scene, your honour', or a two or three witnesses saying, 'we didn't see the accused at the crime scene, your honour'? There's also a probably better reason; human-kind has a tendency to deify things. If we had the original writings of Jesus, would stop a skeptic from still proclaiming that it's made up rubbish? Of course not. However, would the original writing would be idolised and deified (like the Muslim's do the Quran), and draw millions of pilgrims (just like ancient pieces of wood that allegedly came from the cross of Jesus does)? Almost certainly. So all it would encourage is idiology and not truth.
Besides, there is something else that Jesus promised something else with even far more certainty than pieces of paper passed down over generations. He promised his Holy Spirit would remain and testify to his truth. Now, I understand as a skeptic that is laughable for you. But for those of us who have experienced him, it is not.
My wife was not a believer. Many years ago, she and her ex-husband were having a baby, and she suffered a placental abruption which nearly killed her and the baby. Her life spiraled out of control - after the birth she was unable to look after the baby, and her husband was jailed for beating the baby almost to death (leaving him with brain damage). Having barely enough to live on let alone taking care of a baby with special needs, he was taken away to a foster home. My wife had continuous bleeding that lasted years afterwards, and what little funds she had were spent on doctors and specialists. Despite undertaking several Dilation and Curettages's and a lot of investigative work, different medications, it persisted and the cause was not found. She was told numerous times by different specialists that she was unable to have another baby - and if she did it would probably kill her. And that's when we met, and I she let me pray her her every night, even though she herself was not religious and almost despised Christianity. She always wanted another baby; she just wanted us to be a family, but we heeded the doctors advice, and we were not hopeful of any change. And then one day, Jesus came to her in a vision, and showed her a scene with us and two children playing on a beach. Not long after that vision my wife stopped bleeding, and soon after she conceived. We now have two girls (a 5 and 2 year old), just as her vision showed. And she is now a Christian, and has since occasionally had other visions of Jesus.
The second guy answers his own questions. Example: He asked, Why do we bury the dead when Jesus said let the dead bury the dead. The guy who was talking to Jesus said my father had just died let me bury the dead before I follow you.
To me, it seems clear Jesus was talking directly to this man. He said Follow me, don't worry about your father who just died. The (spiritually dead) will bury and take care of him.
Remember, Jesus traveled, so if he left, you may not get another opportunity to follow him again.
That's right, he said " the poor you have always, but you do not have me ( here ) always"
You need to get it while the gettin's good
I read let the dead bury the dead as let the spiritually dead
Well done cliff the first guy was smarter in his head than he was in reality
I've taken physics too and he makes sense to himself, but did not get cliffs analogy. Cliffs analogy wasn't if the apple was material or Gods hand isn't material like the guy was trying to argue. Cliffs analogy was simply to show how God can introduce his hand to change a law.
***** Cliff was actually spot on.
there are two basic points the guy was missing because he couldn't understand what cliff was saying.
1.when he was saying its one thing for a physical being to put his had v a non physical being, his listening skills did not allow him to realise the cliff was saying God... this non physical being created the world lol. (the physical)
2. cliff was also brilliant in communicating the specific analogy with the apple. Gravity is still pulling the apple down while the apple is in The hand but here comes an intervention to stop the effect of gravity.
Josh Jeggs He was desperate to make himself look good
***** Not really because gravity is the thing that causes it to fall. A hand annuls the EFFECT.. he uses the words that seem to technical mind as the essence of gravity. but he is trying to communicate that the effect is annulled.
evidenced by his analogy and disagreeing with the guys assertion that he believes that cliff is teaching that god redefines gravity for a second.
"But God either physically catches the apple or changes the law"
This is a false dichotomy.
A spiritual being that CREATED the physical universe cannot be bound by the physical.
it was funny when I heard that objection, the guy just couldn't understand because he was not listening.
(when he says change the law he defines it as "what normally happens")
+Victor Swans Correct. But be aware we may already have a presupposition on what some laws are.
e.g a man can create a law saying every time you play dead a bear will leave you alone and sure enough when he does it a few times the bear leaves him alone.
but then one day he is mauled by the bear whilst doing that.
the "laws" of the universe are derived from physical interaction of things. how the spirit interacts with the universe is another matter.
Don't you think so?
ps when I mention the point that the spirit that created the world is not bound by the physical I meant that there is no disparity in a spiritual being interacting with the physical as the spiritual created the physical and thus by necessity interacts with the physical.
God bless you all
The second guy is all over the place. i reckon he just googled his verses, without understanding the context where the verses were taken from.
I like intellectual debates and I usually like Cliff’s style; but in this one I felt that the intellectual exchange must also be accompanied by love and compassion to fully embody Christian evangelization
The act of answering the young man shows compassion. Cliff didn’t dismiss him. Cliff took time to answer his question and Cliff doesn’t blow smoke at people, he is honest and tries to answer their questions.
I dedicate my life to worship God the Heavenly Father my aim in life is to do good and be the light yes
13:40: I love how Cliffe says, "... evil enters the human experience..." If it enters (and it did enter) it had to have entered from somewhere else... Some people claim that there was no death pre-Fall... When in fact, [the] Satan had already been kicked out of heaven due to his rebellion because God, being that He knows and sees all, would not have knowingly allowed Satan to remain in heaven having gone down to make mischief within the Eden
The hatred of slavery comes from the spirit of Love blowing through one's soul. That is WHY people get upset about the subject, it's because HE is upset by it! God created good things for humans to experience, so it is a travesty for an evil being to get a human to twist the experience that was supposed to be good into something unpleasant for someone else! We like to make and do things, have projects, and accomplish things for our loved ones, so one person shouldn't hijack another into working for him and his family instead. Sex is supposed to be great, so forcing it on someone roughly so as to hurt them is another travesty that the Holy Spirit is repulsed by...also God is faithful, so abandoning or killing the baby offends God's spirit deeply. We all have Him in the "outer courts" of our souls, & His rules are written on our hearts. Ignoring them to be selfish is like searing one's conscience with a hot iron, Scripture says. It involves defining good and evil in order to see all this from the point of view of the Creator, of both the experiences and the beings doing the experiencing. It's the "seared" people giving the nasty answers, and having a cocky attitude towards Cliffe and his message of Love and Forgiveness from God.
I heard an interesting insight recently: one of the big reasons the Germans of the 1800s tried to discredit the Resurrection of Christ by referring to ancient myths (This was later shown to be false.) is simple: they were anti-Semitic. They could not stand to think that the idea of a bodily resurrection came from Jewish sources.
This makes no sense as the whole religion is based on the story of a Jew modifying a Jewish religion. It's no secret that Jesus was killed for proclaiming to be king of the Jews wasn't he?
@@ismaelmelville47 that’s the reason Hitler hated Christianity. He understood Jesus was born an ethnic Jew, which Hitler despised.
Excellent job as usual Cliffe! Both gentlemen in this vid furthers the evidence that atheism/humanism is in systematic failure. The absolute refusal to listen and using redundant, debunked arguments, from the first guy, to cherry-picking and jumping all over the Bible by constantly talking as a way to sound smart, the second guy, are the some of the last attempts of atheists trying to justify their atheism by attempting to make Christianity look bad.
I think both Christians and atheists cherry pick from the bible to support their cases.
Tom Horwat
Okay where did Cliffe cherry pick?
I'm talking generally, both Christians and atheists cherry pick, I'm sure if I went through a few of Cliffe's video's I'd see him mention a certain biblical passage to back up his point. I'd be very surprised if Cliffe never quotes from the book he believes in. I may be wrong. EDIT: at 25:35 Cliffe mentions the Apostle Paul in 1st Cor: 9 .. he's cherry picking a quote to make his point about Sports. I think it's interesting that there is nothing in the bible about Golf, it's one of the top games in the world and yet Jesus never mentions Golf. Think about it. No Golf.
Tom Horwat
Okay I see what you are talking about. Yes in general however like I said that the majority of people who claim to be atheist, not all, use debunked arguments, not necessarily cherry picking the Bible.
God is the spirit of Love...do you love Cliffe? Are you happy? Other questions pale in comparison to, "Do you love your neighbour as yourself?"
2:01
An analogy is an analogy because it is about a different thing. If you ask for an analogy to be on the same thing, it is not an analogy, but a demonstration you want.
Every time Cliffe wants to punch the student, he shakes his hand instead.
It's pretty obvious the first gentleman has a mental stumbling block. Regardless of evidence, he immediately rules out anything super natural.
So, there's basically no point in giving him any evidence because, by definition, he won't accept any of it on principle alone.
He'd rather blind himself to the truth than accept the possibility of anything super natural.
Also, the analogy of the apple works perfectly well. However, I would have brought up video games to him.
Think about this, in the video game Mario, we normally control Mario and can normally jump a certain height.
Now, the programmer of Mario can go into the game, alter the height of which Mario can jump, and change many other things as well.
To the programmer, this wouldn't be an issue. They literally made the game from the grond up.
To us, this would be amazing to see. Because all we see is the normal height that Mario can jump and every other normal other regular thing we see in the game.
But to the programmer, it would be easy to change.
However, try telling the programmer to make Mario jump and not jump at the same time.
Or what about telling the programmer to make Mario and Princess Peach be the same character and 2 different characters at the same time?
You see the issue?
God, of course, could have possibly made a universe where the laws of contradiction don't apply or where 2+2 equals 5, but that is not what he did.
His character is not illogical.
So, yes, we can see that making a square circle and 2+2 equal 5 is not the same as turning water to wine, walking on water, or healing the sick.
In a similar way, a video game programmer can make Mario jump higher, but they can't make Mario jump and not jump at the same time.
In saying all of that, I really do pray for that young man. He's obviously older now. But my heart still goes out to him deeply.
In the might name of Jesus I hope and pray that he seeks and finds the truth. Amen.
P.S. thank you to Cliff and everyone who makes these videos. You all are a huge blessing 🙌 🙏
I appreciate your boldness in Christ and willingness to go out into the world to evangelize. I noticed the Institutes by John Calvin in your library. Keep studying reformed theology!
The second guy knew nothing about the Bible but wanted to discredit it.
You chose a shocking example by citing the Big Bang Theory, which was hypothesized by a Catholic priest (but avid astronomer), Reverend Georges Lemaître. It challenged the scientific consensus of an eternal universe, and was rejected by the scientific community as 'mere pandering to his theistic beliefs' and that speculating a beginning was just Lemaître's way to get a divine foot in the door. Despite Lemaître's protest that his work should stand or fall on its own accord, astro-physicist Sir Arthur Eddington stated it was "unjustifiable from a physical point of view". Albert Einstein told him in 1927 that "Your calculations are correct, but your grasp of physics is abominable", although they formed a friendship and later stated he liked the beauty and simplicity of it. Lemaître was also the first to observe that the universe was expanding and speculated further expansion, and not contracting. However, the scientific community was largely skeptical of Lemaître's work until Hubble's observations later confirmed them.
***** I'm a Christian and I never discredit evolution or the Big Bang theory what are you talking about, you don't even know me lol
So all the comments that disagrees with cliff are deleted ?
Good video tyvm
Church bell rings as Cliffe says "I've been consistent"
Roughly 19 minutes in - the dude asking about the quote "let the dead bury the dead," happy Cliffe answered that correctly, regarding the Jewish tradition. It wasn't that the man's father was dead or dying, because if he had been, he wouldn't have been amongst Jesus and His company. Jewish law stated that a person had to be with their father when they were dead or dying, because they were responsible for burying them and taking care of all that. If a man left his family and did not do these duties, the man would lose favor with his family. The man was more concerned with losing favor with his family than following the living Christ.
Jesus was speaking symbolically again when He answered, but also expressing (as Cliffe said) for the man to get his priorities straight: "Let the (spiritually) dead bury the (physically) dead, but you go and preach the kingdom of God." --Luke 9:60
Cliffe does so well with so many of these students, it amazes me. Very educational for all people from all backgrounds to watch these videos. If only more settings like this were possible - where people share beliefs and ideas, respectfully.
First kid got fucking pumped
John 10:11
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
I wish I could meet this person personally.
I get what the guy is saying, however in the realm of science not everything that exists is material, and thus to limit the intervening things only to the material (molecular or atomic) you have excluded parts of natural science itself that tells us that there are indeed things that are not made of visible and tangible matter that we have defined
If only these kids who are determined to misunderstand were as smart as they think they are. They're not. Cliffe exposed their ignorance and arrogance...that always go together.
cliff.. have to ever heard of "zeitgeist: the movie?" it is a TH-cam video/movie that has convinced many with lies of characters like Mithra. when they, like the first student in this video, refer to characters that predate Christianity by thousands, that have the same characteristics, of years more than likely they are referencing this video. check it out. It had me at one point in my life, until I figured out it was all a lies (by the father of lies) And I found truth is my Jesus.
God Bless you for all you do. I enjoy your video. they challenge me on how to deal with knuckle heads as I once was.
Jap, I also saw this stuff and believed it until I looked up the ancient texts. You can't find anything of those claims in the texts, so yes, it's a lie and a proven one.
It happened the same to me with this movie
“Eat of my flesh and drink of my blood. Did he mean that literally” lol my goodness
"if you're familiar with those stories." I can't believe that kid said that
I think the analogy would be more valid if the apply stopped above the ground without the hand.
As far as the hand stopping the apple the ground stops the apple as well.
It's OK to defer.
Cliffe is definitely a gentleman...I would've started swearing at these kids.
these young folks do a whole lot of talking but not much listening
This is a problem that I have had in my life. But I am learning. I watch all of Cliffe's videos.
your anger and despair just oozed all over the floor. You might want to go mop it up.
lol your projectiling
you have demonstrated in just three posts with me that you hear but don't listen, read but cant comprehend and resort to insults because you cant refute. thank you. And you didn't even get my joke referring to projectile vomit because you were too busy trying to think up some clever new "put downs" you could type. Goodbye to you and good luck with all that
listening would mean learning listening would mean to take an input and have to think about it colleges and even high schools Now teach not to do so just to have a good commands and to do what they're told and right now this young man is trying to do the same to Cliffe to declare what he supposed to know rather than to have dialogue.
Cliff reminds me of Vincent Cassel
Kids at college I am speaking to you. Do you know how many doctors including myself have seen things that can never be explained by us science or any natural law? We have seen what are called miracles. We have seen children that were going to die recover without our assistance. Not every doctor sees this but some of us are lucky enough to have had somebody not die because of nothing we did. Science had reached the end of its course there was no place to go and no way to treat somebody yet we have seen them get better heal recover live on.
So does this happen randomly or as a response to prayer of the faithful? If not random then it should be easily detectable in statistics of health outcomes which are being constantly conducted. I have never had a doctor ask me my faith or recommend prayer. Are these doctors doing us a disservice? Keen on your doctor's perspective.
Did you see any amputated limbs grow back?
The boys question is circular reasoning. “Natural laws cannot be changed therefore a miracle cannot change natural law because natural law cannot be changed.” Where his flaw is, without law to establish the normal processes of things, we would not be able to know when those normal processes were interrupted. If everything was chaos all the time then God bringing law and order to the chaos would be Him showing his hand, a miracle. Exactly as we see that everything is ordered in laws and when God defies those norms he shows his hand.
His second point on the history, he does need to study more. Those sources predating Jesus are not original but actually altered account dating after Jesus. A lot of other religions after Jesus went back and changed their god myths to be similar to Jesus. We know this because we have the accounts from before Jesus and the writings after Jesus. And we can see the plagiarism of Jesus in the timeline of History. Don’t just look up stories but look at the dates of the documents. Buddha lived before Jesus but only hundreds of years after Jesus did the religion adapt his story into a book and try to incorporate Jesus’s teachings and life.
There was no reference to the resurrection of Mithra. Yes, Isis raised her mate Osiris from the dead.
The first guy was extremely condescending, I'm glad Cliffe moved him away like he did.
👏👏👏👏👏👏 congratulations to that first guy for wasting 11 minutes and 28 seconds of my life that i can never get back due to his ignorance 😧. Proverbs 18:2 - "A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his own opinion" 😴😴😴😴😴
♦️The Saint will come back to life in the flesh . 1Thess.4: 16, Mt.27:52
• If we are to believe literally the prophecies of Scripture, we should expect that when Jesus comes again, the saints will come back to life in the flesh. Their bodies, buried in the earth and completely decomposed, will be reconstituted to their original state.
• Given the modern state of our knowledge, these prophecies do not make rational sense.
This brings great confusion to the Christian faith.
• Therefore,it is important that we elucidate the true meaning of resurrection.
• Resurrection means to come back to life. To come back to life implies that we have been dead.
• To fathom the meaning of resurrection. we must clarify the biblical concepts of life and death.
♦️Biblical Concept of Life and Death ♦️
•When a follower asked Jesus if he could go home to bury his deceased father, Jesus said,
"Leave the dead to bury their own dead." (Luke 9:60)
•These words of Jesus show 2️⃣ different concepts of life and death:
1️⃣ first, "death" means the end of physical life, as was the case of the disciples' deceased father who was to be buried. "Life" in the sense means the state in which the physical self maintains its physiological functions.
2️⃣ The second concept of life and death concerns those living people who were to bury the deceased man; death refers to leaving the bosom of God's love and falling under the dominion of Satan.
The corresponding concept of life refers to the state of living in accordance with God's Will, within the dominion of God's infinite love.
•Therefore, even if a person's physical self is alive, if he dwells apart from God's dominion and is in servitude to Satan, he is dead as judged by the original standard of value.
•A similar conclusion can be drawn from the Lord's words of judgment upon the faithless people of the church in Sardis in Rev. 3:1: "You have the name of being alive, and you are dead."
•When Jesus said in John 11:25, "He who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live," he meant that those who believe in him and live within the realm of God's dominion have life, for even after their physical bodies have returned to the soil, their spirits enjoy life in God's dominion.
♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️
The Death Caused by the Human Fall
• Which of the 2️⃣ concepts of death refers to the death brought about by the Fall of the first human ancestors❓
• God created human beings to grow old and return to dust; physical death was alloted to human beings regardless of whether or not they fell.
• According to the Principle of Creation, the flesh is to be discarded when it has grown old and weak, and only the unclothed spirit self enters the spirit world and lives there eternally.
• Nothing material can live forever. Human beings are no exception; our bodies cannot live eternally. If human beings were to live on earth forever in the flesh, why did God create the spirit world as our final destination❓
•The spirit world was not created after the Fall as a place for fallen spirits to abide. Rather, it is part of the original creation, created as the place where individuals who fulfill the purpose of creation will enjoy eternal life as spirits after their life on earth has come to an end.
• Most people are attached to their earthly life. They regret its passing because, due to the Fall, they are ignorant of the fact that after they discard their clothes of flesh, they are meant to live forever in the beautiful and eternal spirit world.
♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️
• The death caused by the Fall refers to the death through Adam and Eve's eating of the fruit.
• God told Adam and Eve that on the day they ate of the fruit they would surely die.
(Gen. 2:17)
• Since God so warned them, it must be that when they ate of the fruit, they did in fact die. Yet after the Fall they continued their earthly life and bore children, who multiplied to form today's corrupt human society.
• Hence, the death caused by the Fall does not mean the end of physical life but rather the descent from the good dominion of God into the evil dominion of Satan.
• It is written. "He who does not love remains in death." (1 John 3:14) Thus, a person who does not love his neighbors with God's love is dead, even though he remains active and alive on earth.
•This is also the sense of the verses "The wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life" (Rom. 6:23)
• And "To set the mind on the flesh is
death, but to set the mind on the spirit is life and peace." (Rom. 8:6)
♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️
• Many have hitherto believed that the death caused by the Fall was the body's
return to dust.
• Consequently, they have interpreted the biblical concept of resurrection as revival from physical death, and believed that resurrection of the dead involves the biological regeneration of their bodies from the dust.
•A decomposed body cannot be restored to its original state. Furthermore, it is not necessary for a spirit to take on another physical body when he is meant to enjoy eternal life in the vast spirit world.
• Resurrection may be defined as the process of being restored from the death caused by the Fall to life, from the realm of Satan's dominion to the realm of God's direct dominion, through the providence of restoration.
• Accordingly, whenever we repent of our sins and rise to a higher state of goodness, we are resurrected to that
degree.
•John 5:24 illustrates the process of resurrection: "He who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."
• Based on this verse, we can affirm that resurrection means to leave the bosom of Satan and return to the bosom of God.
♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️♦️
What Changes Does Resurrection Cause in Human Beings❓
• Adam and Eve died when they ate of the fruit. Nevertheless, no significant external change took place in them. At most there were changes in their countenances due to the anxiety and fear they felt over having fallen.
•Likewise, no significant external changes should be expected to take place in fallen people when they are resurrected to the state prior to the Fall.
•Jesus was truly a man who fulfilled the purpose of creation. Nevertheless, judged by his outward appearance, Jesus was not noticeably different from ordinary people.
• The changes a person experiences when he is resurrected and enters the governance of God take place in his heart and spirit. These internal changes also purify his body, transforming it from a haunt of Satan into a temple of God.
RSMM,
I have an Iranian friend and he even attests that Mithra is just a prophet.
They just repeat the wrong understanding of what 'slavery' was in ancient Israel. So frustrating to see how badly educated they are but they think they are so knowledgeable.
It's crazy how people keep coming back to this when the Bible makes such a big deal about God freeing the Israelites from slavery in Egypt. Obviously it wasn't okay then.
For those who wonder why Leviticus allowance of slavery, I recommend youtube "racism and slavery" by pastor Alan Nolen of the Cornerstone Fellowship church. He answere all of my questions about the Bible and slavery. And I got to say, my GOD is GOOD.
Pink shirt guy has so many questions, which is great, but no interest in listening to amazing answers. Hope he learns to use his ears more than his mouth
The Bible is against slavery in both Old and New Testament!
In the OT Exodus 21:16 states
"16 And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death."
Kidnapping and selling would result with the death of the seller, but Leviticus records that people sold themselves back then also.
Leviticus 25:47
"47 And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and ****sell himself*** unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family:"
So any person who an Israelite bought, would have to willingly sell themselves, or any other seller would be breaking the law according to Exodus 21:16! It seems that Cliff is not aware of this unfortunately.
In the NT we find 1 Timothy 1:9-10
" Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for ****menstealers****, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;" Here again we see menstealing (stealeth a man) as being contrary to God's doctrine, and is grouped in with everything ungodly.
Every society has a moral code so God gave the Levitical law to a people that had no king and thus no laws to govern their society. Kids like these and atheists do not understand this which is why they poke from the OT laws so much in an attempt to show God of the Bible as immoral. They do not understand He is personal and had those laws with those particular people because their hearts were so hard and had to be extremely strict with them to try and pry their hearts away from sinning.
Slavery isn't always wrong. It isn't wrong to be a slave to Christ
well done i just wish u tackeled the slave issue
I just have to say, majority of the kids are learning from the surface level due to technology, I believe and they don't go in enough to go in depth with what their learning.
This guy simply wants to be right much more than he wishes to see someone convinced that Christ alone will save them if they confess Jesus as Lord and believe that God has raised Him from the dead. He is not doing the work of an Evangelist he is working at being a debater! He allows the opposition to set the parameters of the debate and uses his debating skills to win said debate. The Gospel is the word of God and the promise of that word of God is it will never return void. My words, my debating skills will always return void!
This outreach must have been quite a few years ago ,because in 2022 you would probably see less people listening to Cliffe because they are too busy on Facebook or Instagram or listening to people like Lady Gaga or Kim Kardashian
Lady gaga, kim Kardashian this isnt 2010 lol
CLIFFE WAS RUDE IN THE FIRST ONE. When Aron Ra did that to him everyone cried. He shouts down the students and loses badly to adults who have studied this. CLIFFE IS AN INTELLECTUAL BULLY
Aw no, fragile feelings have been hurt.
I wish he preached the gospel, and not philosophy, there's no power in this, people need to be saved, not argued with, and debated... All these kids listening...The Gospel is the seed of the word.
Perfect example of scripture manipulation as the atheist employ, and willfully no hermeneutical skills applied.
if they are not with you they re against you light vs dark good vs evil lazerus and the rich ruler there are only two ways in life one that leads to death or the one that leads to life or destruction or holy
You just didn't explain your example to his understanding. You kept on saying that God has a physical hand, so that is why he misunderstood your example.
Dude.. he's been teaching this nearly two of your lifetimes... He didn't contradict himself... 🤦
so sad and these are collage students
He isn’t trying to understand the analogy
Humbly ask Jesus he will answer you..!!!!
I am trying to help a friend on here who has lost faith I won't name them but they're looking for an answer does anyone on here know if there's ever been a person by a miracle of God been cured of spina bifida not necessarily by doctors medicines because her I would have heard about that but specifically by God please let me know I want to be able to share that with them thank you!
You really are a dim wit. What are you asking? Whether God does spina bifida? Really?
Something definitely off.
There's something extraneous occurring here.
It really pisses me off especially the second guy he asks Cliffe all these questions and can't wait to talk over him as he's about to answer him. Very dishonest.
I don't necessarily agree with your approach or the way that you respond to the way people are challenging you. You've made accusations against the kid that obviously make him out to be the bad guy because you're not completely sound in your deliverance and I think it's a cheap way or form of a scapegoat. (I'm a Christian by the way so this isn't a biased observation if that's what you were thinking)
this guy is trying to find fish in land but not in ocean....God's action area is spirit level not body or flesh level... God's hand fix the issue at soul so that it replicates into the body... 😇😇
Anti-theists get their academic info from Zeitgeist and Bill Maher, Gerald Massey, and Acharya S.
Angelo Stevens How do you know God is fiction? You have posed no argument to defend your position other than the fallacious, "It's old, therefore its false."
Let me correct myself. How do you know the gospel accounts of Jesus's life are fiction? What evidence do you have to back your claim up?
"I never said it's false because it's old"
What on earth were you suggesting when you said "from Bronze and Iron Age Middle Eastern mythology invented by people who didn't even know the Earth revolves around the Sun" What was the point of even making that statement?
The time period in which a document was written or the scientific knowledge of the writer, has nothing to do with the truth of the document.
Would a better way of interpreting your comment be "Theists get their fiction from old stuff"
Or have I completely missed the point of your original comment and you are actually defending the claims of conspiracy movie zeitgeist, BA in Greek mythology acharya s, bill maher, and gerald massey? Which in that case, hahahahahaha.
"What evidence do I have to back the claim that religion is man made? We have a fairly good historical account of the origin and evolution of many religions. These creations and changes are evidently a product of man.
The fact that many of these religions, including the Abraham religions freely admit that their texts were written by men.
The fact that we've never had a verified case of any religion being created by anything other than man."
I agree! 100% All holy books were written by men. So what? Does that mean they are false? I've never met any Christian that has claimed the bible was written by the hand of God. No where does the bible even claim it was written by God.Also, where can I learn about the great history and origins of Christianity or Judaism that would convince me to believe Christianity is merely a lie con, delusion, a legend that evolved over time, an attempt at establishing political power, attempting to control others, etc.
"The fact that no religion has provided any knowledge that is verifiable or of any piratical value which wasn't already available at the time it was created."
Again, so what? Because the writers of the gospel accounts did not include advanced scientific information means what? Does that mean its false? Does that mean its untrustworthy? Where are you getting the qualifier "For a book to be divinely inspired in must give us amazing advanced scientific information that only God could know! If it doesn't its not true" That is what your argument sounds like.
"it's mathematically impossible for us to have the population size we have now if everyone came from Adam and Eve just 5000-6000 years ago, to name just a few glaring issues."
You are making the mistake of assuming every Christian is a young earth creationist. Did you know that many Christians including Augustine, a Doctor of the Church, believed the creation account of Genesis was not a literal 24 hour day story? This was around 300-400 AD! Did you know the Catholic Church is open to evolution, the big bang, and a 13 billion year old universe? You know the big bang was first proposed by a Catholic Priest? Georges Lemaitre? In my experience, it's in the American evangelical conservatives that you'll find the Young-Earth ideology thriving. Do you disagree? do you believe that the bible ONLY teaches a young earth view?
"To point out how silly it is to assume that the myths, laws, and notions of morality of some primitive people who didn't even have the most basic understanding of reality somehow had the ultimate answers for everything."
Because the writers of the gospels did not have advanced scientific truth that means that they didn't have any truth? No one is claiming the writers are all knowing.
"The Bible makes all sorts of claims that we now know are untrue." Can you give an example?
Angelo Stevens, I have a question. Can you please sight one of your claims above? "The Bible makes all sorts of claims that we now know are untrue." Can you please tell me one of those claims?
and still today we have atheist who are trapped in the Zeitgeist propaganda.
Refer to hindo religion, you can find thousands in their books which is five thousands years old and still applicable
To be honest it was a poor analogy. Virgin birth was a miracle and the analogy falls flat.
Kids are so arrogant these days. In truth, Cliff is right, this kid has no respect
Cliffs failed here. Leviticus refers to bond-servitude and not chattel slavery. Bummer.
Cliff can't have a real conversation with others, he just repeats his sermons every time.
The kid kept repeating something that was already debunked, move it along pal others are waiting to ask questions.
The mithnra, and repeat stories about Jesus have all been debunked. Time and time again.
This kid has made alot of assumptions
He debunked himself
This guy is so arrogant while talking. Millennial madness
What a phony. He gives Christians a bad name.
The first guy destroyed Cliffe and that's why he asked him to sit down. He could not adequately defend his position and he knew it. Cliffe got heated because he knew he was being slain by a college kid and his ego couldn't take it. Well done college kid. You give me hope that kids won't be so easily manipulated into believing in fairy tales like generations before.
The kid spoke fallacy, there are no other accounts of a resurrection other than Osiris who was clearly an Egyptian myth. You can't go around in circles when there are other students waiting to have a turn.
the kid have low IQ if you look and listen xame thinking to a muslim thinking how they interpret the koran 😂
When cliffe loses a point he makes it personal to muddy the waters. Cliffe says you don't respect me or you think I'm stupid, very emotional. You can say these others were myths, but they were believed just like cliffes Yeshua. Cliffe is arrogant and condescending. Empty assertions with no tangible evidence.
Projecting isn't brave, the kid got dismantled.
Sorry cliffe it was a poor analogy