Breaking Down Karate Master vs Aikido Master
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2024
- Jesse Enkamp the Karate Nerd recently fought against Aikido master Leo Tamaki. Here are my thoughts about their exchange.
Watch the original video here: • I Fought An Aikido Mas...
#Aikido #martialarts #mma
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Welcome to the Martial Arts Journey TH-cam channel!
My name is Rokas. I'm a Lithuanian guy who trained Aikido for 14 years, 7 of them running a professional Aikido Dojo until eventually I realized that Aikido does not live up to what it promises.
Lead by this realization I decided to make a daring step to close my Aikido Dojo and move to Portland, Oregon for six months to start training MMA at the famous Straight Blast Gym Headquarters under head coach Matt Thornton.
After six months intensive training I had my first amateur MMA fight after which I moved back to Lithuania. During all of this time I am documenting my experience through my TH-cam channel called "Martial Arts Journey".
Now I am slowly setting up plans to continue training MMA under quality guidance and getting ready for my next MMA fight as I further document and share my journey and discoveries.
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You can't box a person in based on a 10 minute video, but these are my thoughts from what I saw. I hope you will find value in them and will also look critically at my perspective, as much as the original video itself, as we should never believe something just because a "master" said so :)
If you want to check out the original video, watch it here: th-cam.com/video/PtibobLK56I/w-d-xo.html
As soon as I saw Jesse’s video pop up I was counting down the time when you would respond 😂
You should either do a longer interview with Sensei Tamaki or visit him yourself. That would be awesome :D
Leo Tamaki talks a lot about how deadly he is, and he always acts all serious like his a cold killer... I think he's mostly a poser and wouldnt stand in an MMA match.
Because... You know... He's too deadly and stuff.
What would be even more amazing is if you collaborated with other people who pressure test aikido, such as this guy!
@@Jenjak What he said (in another video) in his own language (french) is that he don't train for sport, he train in what was used by samouraï, japanese spy during WWII or the japanese Gestapo, to end any any threats as quickly and efficiently as possible and survive a battlefield, so not something you want to see in a MMA figth or any sport competition (also aknowledging that, if you have to figth unarmed, something really went wrong before).
Sure, he could sound like any mac dojo con artist, and i'm pretty unable to judge, but he seem pretty legit if you look at him a little.
I think we can all agree we need to see Rokas meet this aikido master in person.
Was that even up for debate?
That would make a very interesting video.
YES, PLEASE
Yes I joyfully agree 😅😊😅
Lmao I'm imagining rokas meets him and for whatever reason they get into it but rokas uses his aikido and it's kind of like a stand down like in baki when it was doppo vs shibukawa
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Rokas! 🙏(And please don’t call me a master 🙈) See you at the Ultimate Self-Defense Championship! 💪
Lol I was scrolling through, after posting my own comment, and I was thinking "I don't see Jesse in the comments!" And here you are. 😆
Thanks for the original video Jesse! Can't wait for the second season of ultimate self defense championship - good luck!
Hey you commented 😄.
You both rock 👊
Love your Videos. Looking forward to seeing you in the Self defence championship :D
Aïkido sensei: Can't attack the eyes in MMA.
Jon Jones: That's inaccurate.
Shout-out to my ear-biters out there
@@KeelHeelhahaha! Tyson would be proud
you actually can attack the eyes in MMA, you just cannot do it with your fingers. But you can do it with an elbow, knee or your toes. Remember in MMA as in life if it is not forbidden it is allowed. If you invented a new addictive drug you'll be fine selling it ...until the authorities decide it is now listed in illegal substances
it clearly worked for him lol. as well as the dangerous knee kicks
All these tma masters who said no attack to these and that in MMA, they seems to forget about NHB days, where Joe Son was hit in the nuts like 50 times, and Nakai lost one of his eye due to deliberate eye pokes in vale tudo Japan 95.
For me I do respect some of his points, but I don't see a big difference between him and Lenny Sly, who also has a direct aggressive style of aikido, his throws execution also takes a similar non circular directions
My favourite concept from the video was his discussion of open frame and closed frame. Basically his idea that the more intense you go the more you need rules when sparring in order to keep it safe. Interesting to hear him say that.
I also think he was not bagging on MMA, just pointing out how he is different, with an honest mistake in terms of attacking the knee.
Yeah he talks common sense, but mostly he's doing LARP.
Actually in the UFC there have been talks about not allowing some hits to the KNEEs due to potential long term damage from hyperextension (the bruce lee kneecap kick that is very popular nowadays).
@@Jenjak Aikido is nothing but LARP, so that fits lol
@@stryed3483 that is called a stop kick. And a lot of UFC fighters think it should be banned, but it does not make sense to me because blows to the head are way more dangerous than a blow to the knee. A blow to the knee may end your career but a blow to the head may end you life.
It is correct that when you remove some of the supposedly deadlier moves, it allows you to train with more intensity. That’s why sports combat does a far better job of teaching people how to fight then traditional methods of training. You can go back to the invention of Judo to see how this works. Kano removed the techniques from Judo/traditional jujitsu that were too dangerous to safely practice at full speed and full intensity. Then there was a big challenge match of Kano’s judoka versus the traditional guys, and the judoka won almost every match. And that was because they spent a lot of their time actually fighting/Grappling at full speed and intensity, versus the other guys that were mostly only going through the motions.
My favorite thing about Jesse's video I'd that the Aikido instructor also acknowledged that Jesse was going light.
yea he is a humble guy. i like him a lot
@@bruhmoment3731'humble' fetish alert
@@jamescarr4662right I can’t stand it 🙄
Well, he was honest, after all, it was pretty obvious to see, and people should not get the impression that it is actually that ease to catch people in mid strike to do joint manipulation to them. 99% of time, trying that will get your face smashed
The fact that he put “Real Sparring” in the title kind of invalidates everything in the video. I mean I understand why he wasn’t going harder with a guy he just met for a demo, but don’t try to pass that off as real sparring.
You can totally "attack the eardrum," in MMA (with a slap, for instance)... but you can't stick your finger in their ear.
I was thinking the same thing, but was just wondering what sensei Tamaki meant by attacking the eardrum. I am guessing he meant clapping the eardrums, but I guess he could have had sticking a finger into the ear too. Although I'm not sure how effective that would be
What about ripping off an ear? Is that allowed? I wonder how Holyfield feels about the subject?
Stockton slap
@MartialArtsJourney even punching the ear drum or right behind the ear can rock people or completely knock then out.
@@CalebClark No, that would be illegal. The foul would be "clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh."
I was actually about to send you this video to have your opinion on it XD
I trained with Leo for years, roughly 3 to 5 trainings a week, so I can definitely say this video shows a very low percentage of what we actually do practice in the dojo. However: though we practice in a framework (looking for a kind of efficiency inside of it), a lot of students developped the "little samurai complex" and tried hard to be effective whatsoever, which is obviously unrealistic, especially because one of the main focus of Tamaki's trainings is "get rid of opposition", "don't give tells to your partner" etc. His aikido is way more participative, a collaboration without resistance, and in this sense it is more "aikido" than many dojos I visited during my 20-ish years of practice.
But: Leo trains 2 to 4 hours per day, going at the gym, sparring with his brother or other senseis, and those advanced techniques they only show to aspiring teachers of the school for instance. Which means, no matter how much you train your aikido, it won't be as effective as Leo's, just because he trains himself to be an athlete besides practicing his aikido way more hours per day than you average student can do!
The fun fact is my desillusion from aikido came at the same time as yours, and at the time I stumbled upon your videos! which led me to quit aikido, and even question my practice as an opera singer (I'm a professional opera singer), and to look for evidence based skills for the voice... And now I hit major theatres with bigger roles with real opera skills! So thank you for your hard work and cool videos :)
Idk if i understand your point about the singing. So you didn't learn to sing proper opera at the opera academy? 😮 in that case where did you go or what method did you use to learn singing
@@jake_with_the_BIG_snake well, opera singing and traditional martial arts have actually a lot in common: fantasies about old/foreign exotic supposedly superior techniques, few to none connection with actual physiology etc. And I actually didn't learn proper operatic vocal techniques in more than 15 years of lesson, in various institutions including a major international conservatory, and around a dozen of different singing teachers plus at least twice that number with various coaches specialised in working with singers.
I found actual info and techniques by approaching the CVT method (Complete Vocal Technique) which is an evidence based methods, and by participating in the VCH project (Vocalist Chat Hub) which gathers several expert vocalists from around the world, including Philippe Castagner, Toni Linke and Arnaud Ménard to name a few :)
I am an Aikido instructor. I always try to clear the expectation from early on. Aikido was developed from Daitojutsu, samurai fighting. Samurai are armed and armored. That means catching the hand is important to prevent access to weapons. Armored means punching and kicking are risky moves with low return (especially if the sword/knife is already out). Modern fighting is different. So if you want to learn Aikido to advance sport/competition fighting, I cannot help you. If you want to teach your annoying neighbor a painful lesion, I cannot help you. If you want to be the most physically intimidating person in your block, I cannot help you. I always ask the people want to join of their expectation.
I'll admit, in my younger years, I had a closed mind when it came to aikido. But as I got older and more experienced in martial arts on my own journey, I realized that it ultimately comes down to the practitioner and their individual abilities in their chosen Art. So I'm insanely happy that you haven't abandoned your aikido roots but rather find a way to adapt and overcome. To me, Rokas, you're not just a great martial artist. You're a warrior and inspiration for the generations to come.
i think rokas should be more respectfull whit hes roots... some day he will see that making a video saying aikido does not works was a mistake... the same to other arts he has deshonor...
@@NinpoAndMusic more like me? What do you mean? I only understood probably half of what you typed.
@@fonzievarata607 atakking my spelling is not what i spected but ok... you say in your coment that in your younger years you didnt understood aikido that good and it took to you time and getting more experience to get it... did you say in those times to the world that aikido didnt worked? or did you stay and practice until you did? i think you did the right thing even if you dond wanna hurt rokas feelings... i gues if he is for real he will unerstand in time what i mean... the same whit you and my spelling.
cheers
@@NinpoAndMusic 1) Not attacking your spelling, just stating that I didn't understand what you were saying. 2) I've never trained in aikido and have no desire to train in it. My experience comes from a different path of martial arts. My primary Art at this point in time is Kali, or Filipino Martial Arts. 3) Wasn't trying to spare his feelings, I was speaking the truth.
@@fonzievarata607 what i agree the most is that all comes to the practitioner ... allso "my bad" about my translator gone crazy ...
I Always had this theory that the more Aikido is pressure tested, the more it reverts back to Japanese Jujitsu.
Yes...but AIKIDO should be something different from JIU-JUTSU...should it not?
@@mlabodia Not for just the sake of being different. What works is what counts. Some Arts were developed out of theory from the parent art and just don't work in real life.
@@mlabodiaen lo que se diferencia es el hecho que el Atemi de Aikido no se usa en puntos para lastimar, mientras que en el Jujitsu es usado con fuerza letal ya que los samurai usaban pesadas armaduras y las únicas técnicas efectivas eran atacar articulaciones y golpes donde la armadura no cubría, te recomiendo mirar el Aikido Tomiki, es un verdadero Aikido que busca efectividad y es legítimo.
Aikido is a form of jujutsu
There is no canadian geometry...grappling that works just works
I have heard many, many stories from police officers (some also military veterans) that I have trained with who assure me joint locks do, in fact, work. That's all I want to add. Thank you for the respectful, but honest, analysis!
There's a big cultural imperative to not resist policeman with all available options. He implied they do work with something like bouncers controlling kids.
Both the army and the police have a lot of scary authority and backup behind them. Probably the people they're using the locks on are trying to avoid detention, not kill the guy using them.
Misunderstandings aside. I don’t believe he was bashing MMA. Only stating that all martial arts are “ritualistic” or “closed”, and because of that it comes down to muscle memory: how you train is how you fight. BUT, that doesn’t mean you can’t change your style to being “open” / “asymmetrical”. Any way, fun response. Thanks for sharing. :-)
Love your videos as always Rokas! But I think a little more context has to be given to Sensei Tamaki's thoughts about MMA.
It's not that he mentioned them to discredit the art/ sport versus his Aikido, but rather, he was answering Jesse's question, "Why doesn't Aikido work in MMA" (seen in the full video). To which he directly addressed along the lines of, "because not all Aikido attacks can be used in MMA."
As to whether MMA fighters are good survival fighters and can easily learn "assymetric" self defense attacks, is not something he directly dismissed, but rather, just commented why his Aikido can't work in MMA.
Tamaki sensei trained with Suga sensei and Tamura sensei, two teachers who are famous for being very earnest in their approach to aikido. One of my own teachers also trained with them and shares very similar viewpoints.
I think the aikido fighter was right to say it's focus is irimi and atemi. If you check Morihei Ueshiba Budo book you can see he mostly starts his technique with striking and coming in (irimi).
Exactly. I always tell Aikido people (amd even my fellow Judo practitioners) that striking is a core part of the art's pure version.
Yeah, you won't punch in most Aikido/Judo competitions, but that's just to train an specific part of the art. It is broader than that!
It is very hard to just take someone down with grappling only if they have even a little bit of grappling skills (let alone if they know that you will only use grappling)
And about Irimi: If you do boxing, you'll see that when you slip in or "jam" an attack (push the attacking arm onto the attacker while moving into them) you always end up in a good position for doing grappling (of any kind, not just Aikido) or even trapping.
This also might happen when you attack an opponent and they either get stuned by it or they block it by covering up and leaving themselves vulnerable for other stuff
@@jestfullgremblim8002 Sounds so much like Karate lol All Japanese arts are very similar in their purest form. So seperated and different when seeing only the tip of the iceberg.
@@revariox189 but Karate comes from Okinawa....
Anyways, Karate was actually a weapon martial art and the unarmed stuff that it taught was mostly grappling (including standing joint locks) and low kicks.
Karate didn't even have high kicks at first
@@farorin omg you actually know your stuff!
@@farorin yep! That's why i wrote that i also tell my fellow Judoka the same things i tell the Aikido practitioners.
Our styles are very similar
Really excited to see how you will implement part of your aïkido which you find being usefull in your game, now that you have skills in figthing (I loved the short vid where you showned that you used - without meaning it- some aïkido 's techniques during the circle drill in the USCD, making you able to score all of the 6 points)!
One thing I think is cool is that he was pretty aggressive for an aikido practitioner, he was even throwing kicks every so often.
My favorite part of the video was when he went into the difference between the western and Japanese concept of fairness. Which is I actually think the biggest issue of MMA when it comes to self defense. It's not so much about eye pokes and groin shots, it's about not having a bell sound that tells you the fight is starting. Most times when you see someone get really hurt it's because they didn't realize the fight already started, or they were in "game mode" and the other person was there to kill them.
That's also a thing you can't simulate when you say "today we'll spar with groin shots." Because the power of asymmetric tactics are the surprise. You get jumped as you're climbing into the ring, suddenly he pulls a knife, he and six buddies attack you as you're getting your gear bag out of the car. They burn down your house the night before.
Yes. I almost got badly hurt because in a real fight I slipped into 'sparring competition' mode and the other guy was in 'fuck him up as brutally as possible, preferably when he's not looking' mode.
Exactly!!! 👊👊✊✊👏👏👌👌 You understand. 👊👊
On using aikido in MMA, I think it's important to understand that there's a huge difference between a martial art that's overall good for MMA or self-defense and a martial art that has some things that can be used for MMA or self-defense. Training aikido alone compared to training muay thai alone will have a huge difference in results, and the fact that a muay thai person could get a few techniques from aikido that could work doesn't mean that aikido is good overall, it just means that it's not totally 100% bad, which would be very unlikely anyway.
That's why I think that it's important to understand that some martial arts are fit to be the core of your training and focus while others are fit to be a source of specific techniques and ideas.
I think your first sentence is spot on! Very well said. As someone who has done Hapkido (essentially Korean aikido), as well as law-enforcement defensive/control tactics, I can say that standing wrist and arm locks do work in the sense that they are painful and damaging. But they are really only applicable in three situation’s. Those are if you catch your opponent completely by surprise, have a significant size and strength advantage over your opponent, or your opponent is not really fighting back, and just passively resisting. Otherwise, forget it. So yes, there are some things you could take from aikido that could be applied in MMA. But as a whole, as an art, it’s going to fail. And in fact it has been shown to fail over and over again.
I think it’s awesome to see Rokas give insight since he’s an aikidoka and has experience applying it in MMA and combat sports. It would be awesome to see him exchange ideas with Tamaki.
Ive been waiting for Rokas to speak to this man for years. Years ive been seeing and understanding how Aikido works via Sensei Tamaki, I have been ignored. Now that Jesse had a video with him I can only hope it will spark Rokas interest to look deeper into it, But I doubt it, he seems to be on the proving Aikido is no good line, not exploring Aikido deeper and seeing how it does work. Sensei Tamaki and his students never shy away from a sparring. On or off camera.
@@revariox189Rokas es un pésimo aikidoka, por eso nunca creo que se atreva a profundizar como el Aikido puede servir, parece que está traumado con el hecho de que no sirviera su mala forma de entrenar, yo lo practico con fuerza y puedo decir que el Aikido por si solo, es efectivo, también ayuda que tengo experiencia en Boxeo y Karate, pero también Morihei tenía experiencia en otras cosas antes del Aikijutsu
As a hapkido practicioner, I find confusing how aikido focuses so much on wrist. In my school we have that same aikijujutsu base, but we use elbow and shoulder much more than wrist, for better controlling our opponents. I also think the closer to the torso, the better results you'll get in takedowns and submissions (even standing up). I think you could try to learn something from a good hapkido school, you know? I think it could be used to improve your aikido, since hapkido is generally more agressive and self defense oriented.
Great video as always!
finally, a fellow hapkido practitioner! Rokas really should try hapkido and see how it is used in self defence.
I think Aikido peeps *post* more about wrist locks, but in practice there are lots of techniques involving elbows, shoulders, head, hips, etc. Curriculum wise, there are a lot more throws than wrist locks in Aikido. But it is strange they seem to focus on that on social media.
exactly what i told him. Our hapkido sparring sessions looked basically like mma. Plus, the fact that Aikido was created primarily as a meditative practice by Ueshiba, NOT as an explicit fighting/combat system
Daito ryu aikijujutsu practitioner here, I would just like to say that putting things into context is important, aikido simply moved away from becoming about fighting to be honest, I know there are more aikido styles that are focused on fighting but quite honestly those are Closer to a jujutsu style than what most would consider as aikido, however, with hapkido, You don't have the same kind of philosophical development and history of Being against Competition and recreational violence of any kind So you don't suffer from this problem as much (although you do have some mcdojos)
@@michaeldonnelly8068 Agree, I think it started as a japanese combat system blending kenjutsu/jojutsu and daito ryu aikijujutsu, but once O'sensei had his spiritual awakening he softened it up quite a bit and made it more of a vehicle for spiritual development than fighting.
It adds more leg work for aikido practitioners like myself to retrofit it for defense or sparring, but once you figure it out you can go between combative practice and spiritual practice. Especially with cross training. Sparring with weapons is super fun btw, I wish more MMA bros would try it to see the adjustments they would need to make.
As a long term Aikido practitioner, who has also met and very briefly trained with Leo Tamaki (he came to our dojo in Japan earlier this year) I'm glad to see some more sensible videos and discussion of the good and bad aspects of the art.
There's absolutely nothing good about Aikido. How does it feel to have trained in something your entire life that is completely useless in a real fight 😂😂
@@lazydaze3134 When you look back on your life in the future, how will you feel that all that you've achieved is adding to the huge amount of rubbish on the internet with a pointless, trolling post? Why not use your time to go out and do something constructive, like improve your own MA abilities, or use your MA to help a teenager struggling with life to feel confident about themselves.
What is more, if you do a striking or grappling MA, in the future, when your body is worn out from all the hard training, like many people I've met, you'll possibly appreciate something like Aikido, which allows you to practice something that isn't so hard on the body.
@@CurrawongAiki-Chat, yo también me volví aikidoka, a pesar de saber del boxeo y conocer la violencia real, pasando también por mi estudio de Karate para tener un cuerpo fuerte y duro, también las maniobras de Kung Fu, me sentía insatisfecho que al final todo sea brutal, por eso el Aikido y especialmente ahora que me estoy enterando del estilo Tomiki, estoy feliz de que exista el Aikido, algo más que solo superar a otros, el Aikido es un verdadero arte marcial si se practica como es debido, Saludos y buena vida
@@Currawong ya but its useless for self defense
Joint locks are useful to gain an additional level of control over your opponent, but probably won't end the fight. The hard part is flowing into the joint lock. Sifu says "no one will simply put their arm behind their back for you. You are not the police."
Flowing is the key word. I have applied standing figure four locks in real time sparring, but I never TRIED to apply that lock; I just went with what my opponent gave me at the time.
I’d say the issue is that they are standing joint locks. And in standing joint locks, you only have control over the joint you are trying to lock. That’s why they are so difficult, and nearly impossible, to effectively apply to people that are actively fighting back against you. That’s also why they can work in other situation’s, however, like in Brazilian jujitsu. Because in BJJ you are not standing. You are on the ground and using your body to control their body, which then allows you to isolate the joint you’re trying to lock. That it makes it much easier to do and hence, more effective.
@@judosailor610 yeah, being upright definitely makes a difference. It's easy to counter any given technique just by taking a step.
They were both going light, which makes sense. A lot of hard sparring is just a fight with extra words. I really enjoyed looking at what might have been how the original creator of akido intended the art to look.
Wow, didn't expect you to respond this fast 😲 Maybe the next step is to do a video with Leo Tamaki himself? But it's your journey and you should make your own path towards your goal 👍
I think what some people fail to realize when it comes to having an advantage over professional fighters due to "not being restrained by rules" is this: Can YOU pull it off? Are you WILLING to pull it off? Are you capable of setting up your position to pull it off?
Under duress, and a general rule of thumb, people don't suddenly rise to expection, they fall back to their training. A lot of the people who make those frivilous claims most likely aren't trained, experienced or hardened.
There is a different point - ability to quickly cause serious harm is a weapon in the hands of unarmed opponent. Being skilled in attacking vital areas like eyes or neck can improve your situation in a similar way as a weapon does. Today, everyone is taught that knife is an ultimate weapon no matter who holds it in the hand, right? This is a bit similar. Some ability, that makes your situation in a fight easier. And it is the ability, that may solve situation differently then every MMA fighter would.
I realised this while watching ultimate self defense championship, the episode with knife attacker in a small room. Sensei Seth managed to do perfect sidekick and then smash his enemy with full force against the wall, yet he ended stabbed as everybody else. It seemed quite unrealistic to me. Knife attacker survived all this without much harm and pain ONLY because of all the padding he had on him. I highly doubt he would be so keen on stabbing Seth's back after being smashed against the brick wall by 100kg sumo expert.
That's why in some closed-door continental China and Vietnamese wingchun schools they encourage their practitioners to seek fights on the streets. It sometimes backfires of course, the guy from one such family I briefly trained under had been in a jail for quite some bit
Any 'Master' that says his Martial Art is the 'best' because it has techniques too dangerous to use in competition is totally talking bullshido.
I was waiting for this video.
Glad to hear it!
Same
Everyone in the karate nerd's comment section was waiting for Rokas' thoughts on w😅
Nice to know your perspective on the video.
I like the part where the aikido master mentioned if aikido people did mma like Machida did with karate, it made me think of you immediately 😄.
Overall this was a great video, can't wait to see Jesse in USDC season 2 😄🥊.
Maybe Leo can join too....
Good video! My biggest gripe is this idea that people who have no experience kicking a resisting opponent thinking they will magically land a groin kick in a life threatening situation.
Their argument that "training for sport does not prepare you for self defense" (i.e. "you fight like you train") goes *BOTH WAYS*. Doing cooperative drills does not prepare you for the mental and physical overwhelm in a survival situation.
Also, we know from experience that attacks to the eyes, groin and small joints during sparring don't register as effectively thanks to adrenaline. I have broken fingers, toes and ankles wrestling, and not realized it until hours later. I have been eye poked and groin kicked in sparring and in unprovoked attacks (funny story) but the response is unreliable - it's not always a dramatic loss of motor function.
Furthermore, self defense PPE exists. Training with reduced power exists. Many special operations and armed forces personnel use these methods, usually both.
Instead, some "self defense" schools always seem to argue "we can't train at 100% intensity, so we'll do some cooperative exercises instead". (Nothing against cooperative drills - they're not enough on their own)
Great points. I would even argue if you even land a kick to a "sensitive spot" the attacker typically works through it. It's no guarantee. And no offense to sensei Tamaki, but to those of use who have practiced kicks over and over, his kicks are not great.
Anyone who's done a grappling art for awhile (Judo, BJJ, whatever) will certainly have taken a few shots to the groin. If you're one of those, think back -- how many of those would have ended your fight, and how many would just make you angry? I know for myself, every time it's happened, I stop in the moment because we're sparring. But I also know that if it was a real fight, it would definitely not stop me.
A fight-ending groin strike will have to be delivered with such exquisite precision and force, I don't think it's realistic to plan for it. If you can do *that*, then you probably have enough skill and physical advantage to win a whole lot of other ways.
One final anecdote: once while serving as a token "bad guy" for a self defense seminar, one of the lady students didn't hear the instructions. Instead of pulling her knee kick to my groin, she threw it with all she had. It was a pristine on-target delivery. As described above, I checked myself -- could I continue fighting if I had to? Heck yeah! And it would flip every rage switch in my body, too. You have to burst a testicle to accomplish anything.
To put it simply, Leo Tamaki is saying that Aikido is based on entering and striking in a way that causes injury. If you're hoping to see something that looks more like "Aikido" then you'll be disappointed because Aikido tends to be made round and circular for aesthetic and philosophical reasons by people who aren't interested in fighting. Traditional martial arts in general are about entering and striking. As for joint locks, could you enter and strike a joint to cause injury to a joint? Yes. Should you try to grab someones wrist or arm and then power them into submission? Probably not, when theres a more direct solution (entering and striking). As for illegal techniques, Mr. Tamaki is essentially saying that some techniques cause injury more easily than others and that those are the techniques you should use to survive a life threatening encounter. It doesn't mean you cant or shouldn't spar/play combat games for attribute building, but you should understand that you'll be depending on different techniques.
Nice video !
Do you think one day to meet Tamaki sensei? He travels a lot, maybe he will organize a workshop near to your place and maybe you could take the opportunity to meet him?
Very valuable perspective!
Thank you. Glad to hear it.
The point about joint locks is that they dont actually stop someone trying to kill you.
I don't think he's saying that MMA doesn't work. He's just saying that the mindset is different. GSP said on a podcast, that he would rather fight Francis than Bas in a street fight, because Bas always has that "street fight" mentality. He explains that if he had to fight someone like Francis in a streetfight. He would attack the eyes, knee the groin, when they least expect it. It does not matter how big or strong you are, if you can't see you can't fight, if you can't breath you can't fight, if your groin got kicked and you're on the ground from unexpected pain, you can't fight. I think this is what he's trying to get by asymmetrical fighting.
I've posted the same comment on Jesse's video but I think it might be welcome here too.
Léo Tamaki is a bit of an idol of mine. I'm from Judo and BJJ, and I don't necessarily agree with everything he has ever said, but I respect him immensely and I think he has a lucid view of what fighting is - hence why his Aïkido involves front kicks, arm drags and headlocks. He also stresses the importance of strength and conditioning and being in fighting shape in general.
Léo is neither the usual Aïkido "master" who passes off dancing as fighting nor a man with an identity crisis who will essentially do MMA and call it "effective Aïkido" or something. He has very definitely chosen his art and he's aware of what it is and isn't, and more importantly he gives himself every chance of interacting with people from combat sports backgrounds and also exemplifying purposeful athleticism and a productive life hygiene.
He does seem to have fallen victim to the idea that he could sneak eye pokes and groin strikes past a lifelong skillful grappler, only to be thwarted by those annoying MMA rules. I've several times invited people in sparring to try to touch my eyes. The thing with grappling is that positional advantage is fundamentally advantageous -- there are no eye pokes against someone who knows how to establish and maintain control.
First thing i thought when i saw the Jessie vid was i wonder what you thought
Same🤣👍
To be fair, the aikido master didn't say joint locks were useless, he just said that he doesn't use them.
I appreciate your critique. It was fair and open minded while still being grounded in reality. 👍🏽😎
I commented on his video about you reviewing this video. I called it 😁😁😁
Man its the most incredible thing to see someone who was fed illusions by his former aikido experience to then meet real precise violence of action in a match and realise his mistakes. And not only that, but actually train MMA and become an actual dangerous fighter. I couldnt give you more praise. It takes a healthy mind to see the truth and remain critical to your surroundings. It doesnt mean the time training Aikido was wasted, its just realising what works and what doesnt. Youre an important role model for so many delusional men who have main character syndrome and fantasize about looking cool in a street fight. Sadly thats 90% of Jesse´s viewer base in that video as you can see from all the comments.
I think the problem with a lot of traditional martial artists is that they believe that the techniques they do are SO DEADLY they'll instantly stop a fight. Techniques that the overwhelming majority of them have only ever "done" on compliant partners or training equipment, btw. Anyone who's ever been in a self defense situation or fight (street fight or sanctioned event) KNOWS that is not the case. Nothing is ever 100%. A right cross flush to the chin isn't even 100%. What are you going to do when you meet someone that just walks through something like that?? A lot of traditionalists think they have what it takes to deal with that but the reality is most people don't and they don't even know it.
same thing can be said with a lot of MMA practitioners esp the weekend warriors. just because they go to the gym learn a few things here and there like those fighters they saw in TVs they think aww TMA is 100% useless, people who train TMA is weak, they look down on TMA and the street etc etc.. Anthony Smith a UFC fighter had a hard time fightin a 20+yo skinny dude that invaded his home. lot of MMA peeps think they have what it takes to deal with that but the reality is most people don't and they don't even know it. if someone is bad it's often not the art but the practitioner
Cant say much about the MMA part, but I loved the guy the second he said he doesnt do joint locks. In all the years of Aikido, the one thing that never worked in "free fights" was the joint locks. The movement of Aikido is the extraordinary part in my opinion.
I think this discussion is strictly in the context of Aikido's standing joint locks. A joint lock absolutely works, and on some of the best grapplers in the world. But they also come with a key prerequisite: positional control. Most Aikido joint locks assume some sort of dynamic control, using the circular movement, momentum, and grip to lock the joint at a moment in time where it's "caught". Get any of that wrong, and it doesn't work. OTOH, isolate and control the two joints around the target joint in a static hold, and there's no question the lock works.
I'll say this again and again, there is a reason why mankind never fought wars barehanded...
I don't think Sensei Tamaki was bagging MMA... more trying to explain that there's a difference between competition fighting and fighting for your life, in the sense that in a "fight for your life" situation, there's no such thing as "cheating"... therefore, fighting effectively in his style would require things that don't really work vs a competition style of fighting (either because it would need to cause serious harm to work or would be cheating).
Basically, he's saying it's comparing cheese and chalk! :)
All the anti-Rokas enthusiasts were in the comments section of that video, when in fact, this guy, though he seems more legit than some, uses the same kind of arguments ("if there are no rules, I will kill the MMA guy easily"), and at the same time, he admits much of what Rokas says about Aikido. Jesse went obviously very easy on him, but he also did a good job, especially the head manipulation as you said.
@@neverthelessiamsaved that's an entirely different matter. If anyone has a knife they'll beat a trained fighter with no knife. The question is always about what is effective. Filipino martial arts teach knife fighting so that would be worth studying for real self-defense. But if it's a one on one without rules but also no weapons you can be darn sur someone who has actually been in fighting situations learning to react well and not just doing kata is going to win.
@@neverthelessiamsaved Ok, I am a Christian too, but I'm not sure how this connects to the discussion on martial arts, or maybe you're being tongue in cheek. I guess in the US you would have quite a lot of people with guns and weapons for self-defence, but where I am, this is not something we even think about.
@@neverthelessiamsaved :) I live in a terrible place where gun and knife crime, violent crime in general is pretty rare, we just don't think about carrying weapons around. And I understand that in the US you think in terms of freedom and the 2nd amendment is dear to you and I understand its importance, but I'm glad I don't feel the need to conceal and carry where I live.
Well I know that a lot of martial arts use joint and wrist lock. Including catch wrestling. Heck I remembered William regal( who was trained by Marty Jones ( trained by Billy Robinson) used a lot of wrist lock in his pro wrestling. Plus Regal used to be a carnival wrestler( where they took on audience for cash prize). Wrist lock and joint locks are legal in MMA. So are neck cranks and spine lock ( Hallmark of catch wrestling).
Yeah, in carnival wrestling a good wrist lock was often kept in reserve in case the volunteer from the audience started getting the upper hand
What he means by that, and is not really conveyed in the video (he explained it in another video) is that if a fight is to the death, or is someone doesnt feel pain due to drugs, a joint lock is not as effective because it doesnt stop the fight
I think what he is getting at: Joint manipulation from standing is really dangerous, since A) the person is smaller and weaker, or has a lot less training than you, in which case you break their arm unnecessarily, since you could have used other methods B) is stronger and bigger as well as/or trained individual, in which case they know to defend them and you expose yourself to counters.
Like all joint manipulation, it’s safer and better when you have gotten the opponent to ground and isolated a limb, as they do in BJJ (and in catch for that matter AFAIK). Still, a choke is better.
I think MMA is a great combat analogue because it's a very high pressure, high impact, violent contest... sure there are limiting rules, but it gets you real close (about as close you can get, really) in terms of psychological stress, physical stress, pain, aggression and the general inherent chaos of a violent encounter. Even if one doesn't consider their system to be MMA, MMA should always be the gold standard to pressure test your system against.
Violent encounters doesen't have any rules, nor the attacker is using gloves.
@@marcellolaginhas7370 yes we know. an analogue is something close, not exact.
@@seranonable I know the meaning of the word. The question here isn’t semantics. You’re trying to compare a fight sport with a real threat. And are two absolutely different animals. Your cortex will tell you the difference. Knowing that you are on a ring will never get anyway near of a life threatening event. And some centuries ago, that was the whole purpose of martial arts. Defend oneself against real life threats. MMA is just a sport, cannot be compare with real life.
@@marcellolaginhas7370 I said it's as close as you can get for the purposes of pressure testing. I'm not sure what your argument even is. You seem like you're being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.
Me, Like many others, were waiting for a response from you on Jesse's video. However, I have this funny feeling Jesse would take issue with you identifying him as a karate "master". Knowledgeable and always searching for more within and outside of karate absolutely. Maybe in another 20 years of continuous training and study.
Why is this misconception about knee strikes going around.... Its the athletic associations in certain states that do not allow knee strikes. I'm really surprised so many big youtube martial arts channrls keep not addressing this correctly.
Also he didnt say joint locks shouldn't be used, he said he tries to not use them, implying he will if he thinks it will ve advantageous.
The first thing before any analysis, should be to be aware and informed that Leo Tamaki have created his own independent style of Aikido which is VERY different from classic Aikido that you see everywhere. His style is literaly more close to fighting like an ancient samurai than any modern aikido style.
He is a french-japanese that have a more historical and war/survival oriented approach on Aikido, which makes it a kind of hybrid style with a lot of things he takes from ancient japanese disciplines like Jujitsu, Judo, Karate, when all of them were not seperate disciplines but just a whole samurai knowledge of fighting. His style is called Kishinkai. That's one of the reasons why you see some frames on the wall of his Dojo, with people like Oyama or Musashi, because Leo Tamaki tries to be closer to a wide open style of Japanese techniques.
And he is a previous karate black belt and is very pragmatic in his practice and is very open to always encountering other fighting arts and sports to take from it and prove the efficiency of his own style. He is known, in the french speakers community worldwide, to have done a lot of sparrings with MMA fighters.
So all that just to say that he is in a mentality and way of thinking that is very different from most of Aikido masters or even other martial arts masters. That's why some get surprised when they do some sparring with him, especially "classic" aikido masters that usually get frustrated when they discover that their own aikido simply doesn't work, they get very surprised when they encounter the Kishinkai style.
Leo Tamaki thinks in a way that he is praising the ancient "warrior mindset" of actually.... training out of "the frame" and always preparing for the unexpected. Something that you rarely see in others masters that are most of the time way too much close-minded in their "frame" and forget that in war everything is allowed.
His whole message is about thinking more "out of frame" and preparing for sneaky moves, than thinking in a strict discipline frame of Karate or Aikido or MMA etc...
Coming from various arts myself that are known to be more "efficient", I've done my years of judo, kyokushin, BJJ/Grappling and MMA, I had the opportunity to have a sparring with a long-term student of the Kishinkai school of Leo Tamaki and I was very surprised to face somebody that was fighting more like an ancient samurai than an aikido modern practicioner. It was like fighting somebody who uses a bit of techniques from Judo, Karate and from time to time, you see some surprising things that comes from Aikido, but in a strange way that is actually WORKING, so yeah, my encounter with the Leo Tamaki "world" was a very unexpected one but a very good surprise. Since then I follow his blog (which is in french most of the time) but is literaly a treasure of philosophy and exploration of different martial arts concepts and ideas, and history about feudal japan as well.
Define underrated: Leo Tamaki. The guy is a rare gem.
Please pardon my ignorance, but wasn't the while point of aikido to represent the founder's spiritual philosophy?
He already knew other martial arts and was a proven fighter. He didn't need a "new" way to fight, but wanted to demonstrate his philosophy of harmony and energy.
So what's the deal with all these tough guys trying to make aikido "gritty and real"? If you want to fight, fight! But if you want to understand Ueshiba's philosophy, do aikido.
It's like trying to say that practicing yoga will enable you to bench press twice your bodyweight, without needing to lift weights.
Dude, I like Jeff Chan. But against the knife and bat did TERRIBLE. Don't mispresent things again.
I've been waiting for this.
2:30. I agree with this 100%. I practice muay Thai and karate (karate was more of a childhood longing to practice). And for some odd reason karate practitioners always point out that combat sports fighters aren't allowed to kick the groin, eye poke, etc. While I agree that's not allowed in combat sports, that is also not allowed even in TMA practice because of injuries. Karate preaches about kicking the groin but it's not practiced for obvious reasons. Also you don't really need to take martial arts to kick someone in the groin, eye poke, or biting. This argument is so old and short sighted. It really isn't that hard to aim for the groin once you can properly do round kicks and teeps. So if mma fighters need to kick the groin in a survival setting, I'm 100% sure they'll have more than enough skill to simply aim for the groin. More so than martial artists who don't fight full contact.
Well, it also depends on who trains in what. I’ve practiced TMA, specifically okinawa karate, which emphasizes a lot on groin strikes, joint locks, takedowns, eye gouges and other things. Especially when the okinawans enforce the concept of bunkai, applications of kata techniques.
It really comes down to who trains you and what the training pertains, in my experience
TMA has forms that practice illegal moves and there is some bunkai for it, but it's done in a very careful and controlled manner
I agree with you 100% Rokas. As the Self Defense Championships has shown in a data point, even though Jeff Chan is purely an MMA fighter and not a self defense practitioner, he actually ended up winning the championships. He did this despite a big disadvantage in terms of size and weight. For example, even though Icy Mike, who has a ton of experience, Mike's physical size, at least height wise, didn't do so well.
The only reason, imo, that Jeff Chan did so well was his superior level of physical fitness (the participants were going one after another and you could see how exhausted they were getting, especially against multiple opponents), and his great sparring and MMA experience. I mean, check out how effective Jeff Chan was at taking down his opponents, despite his height and weight disadvantage.
Also, great honest analysis, Rokas. You had both good and bad things to say, which I think is important when you're trying to be honest. Keep it up, Rokas! And yes, I was definitely hoping you'd have a response/reaction video to that one. Also super excited to see Jesse in the 2nd Self Defense Championships. The gofundme or whatever was already at the top but I donated anyways because, one, I think the participants are interesting, and two I want to support endeavors like this. I can only hope videos like these will help aikidokas and other practitioners to pressure test their arts. I know they can have important contributions to the fighting arts if only they properly tested against a variety of styles.
Now i wanna see this aikido master fights that aikido master
I watched the video and I don’t think the guy was downplaying MMA. However I still agree with you that his understanding of the rules are a little flawed.
"Joint locks only work against youngsters that don't know what they are doing". I'd love to try an armbar or a heel hook on this guy. This is crap.
This will never happen, but you can still ask someone around your level in your club. Try do get one of this joint lock while the other guy can do whatever he wants. If you want more fun, give him a (fake) knife in the pocket.
@@simongousseau1275 Joint lock is not just the wristlock. Every joint manipulation is a joint lock. As I said I'd love to see any aikido guy get out of a locked out armbar or a heel hook. I bet they get their arm broken or their ACL torn in half.
@@simongousseau1275 Also I don't have to ask someone in my club, I have around 20 matches combined in MMA and BJJ. So I think that I know how joint locks work by now. I've finished multiple people in competitions with joint locks.
@@uros2321 from your initial comment I quite understood you had experience in that, and I have no doubt that you can't easily escape some locks.
I'm also fully aware of the existence of multiple joints locks. But your answer shows that you are transferring Leo Tamaki's comment on your context (JJB competition), while Leo's referring to this "survival context".
If someone is really decided to kill you or knows that if he loses, he dies, it would be certainly much more difficult to lock your technics. He could accept to get the shoulder, the knee whatever broken to give you that knife cut, or hit your head with the stone (etc, you get the idea) while in competiton, you will tape out. I don't say it is impossible to really lock someone which as really bad intentions, but it is only possible if you are much better than him. You are answering you have successfully in dozen of matchs, but context is different. From what I understand, it's not to completely close the lock which is the hardest part, but how you arrive on the situation to lock it, how you work on the ground to find a way. Would it be possible if the guy bit you? Get a knife ? Would you take the time to look for that good position ? You could do the same, sure, fully agree with that, but would you go for this joint lock ?
Plus, here Leo is probably not thinking about a ground position as commonly in martial arts you don't want to stay on the grounds (multiple opponents, weapons, etc.), more probably of any locks done from a stand up position
I really think many of comments are misunderstansing Léo. He does have much respect for sport fighters because he respects people which are committed to what they do, to people who doesn't spare sweats to get what they want. Every year he organizes events where people from different arts/sports come to teach what they so people keep an open mind about the field of possibilities and so everyone keeps respect for other disciplines, and every year you have people from lutta livre or JJB (David Pierre Louis for example) or MMA.
Leo doesn't say he is better that sport fighters or that he would beat the crap out of anyone outside a ring, he just says that what he trains for is not a ring, so he doesn't develop skills to confront in a ring or cage, but maybe outside, without rules, because required skills are different, because he won't go for a fair fight, it could be different, or not. You can disagree with that and think that MMA and JJB are the best options, everyone is free to chose the best path for himself.
@@simongousseau1275 u dont need to spew all this bs joint locks work in the real world it all depends on the situation but they still work in general you watch too many movies
Leo Tamaki sounds more grounded than ''Sensei'' Seagal.
I did not watch the video yet, but of course Rokas reacting is an awesome idea. Giving you a like in advance, my man !
Bas Rutten "You think I don't know how to poke you in the eyes? I bet I can do it better than you".
As for traditional practioners who claim they're masters at attacking the eyes? How many eyes have they ever poked? I bet they can't even lay a hand on a professional fighter. Are their fingers even conditioned for it? There are some Karate & Kung Fu fighters who have mutilated fingers conditioned for poking.
Thank you for making this video!
Never trained Aikido but for a little while I trained a conceptually similar style to supplement my striking. Hapkido. my answer to "Why can't you pressure test it". I never thought of the techniques I was learning as being for fighting. I saw it as learning how the body moves and how it shouldn't move because if it moves that way, it hurts or breaks. And the scenarios I thought of where it could be useful were not AFTER the fight had already started, they were to prevent the fight from starting or to just get out of a bad spot. This is why I always thought it was great that I understood the concepts but I don't feel that it is enough on its own.
Nothing prepares someone for fighting, like actually fighting. Training, fitness and sparring help immensely, but until you've been hit repeatedly with bad intentions, and fought through it, you have no idea how you will react. I laughed when he talked about the non-violent types gravitating towards Aikido, because if you really don't want to fight, Track, is the best sport for you! I was sucker punched from behind by a big guy once, and he was shocked that I didn't go down. I turned to fight him and he backed away but kept looking behind me. There were four more guys running up behind me! As, Ron White, so wisely put it , I don't know how many it would have taken, to whoop my ass, but I knew how many they were gonna use! I ran like a gazelle! Usain Bolt, would've been proud!
I trained a couple of seminars with Tamaki. He's fine. I also trained jiu-jitsu for 10 years, and did a year of boxing & some shotokan karate many moons ago. I have trained Iwama takemusu aikido for 25 years - and that style creates very strong beasts. The problem with keyboard warriors is they have either done nothing much, or are still too young to "get" what it actually is. In short they take techniques as literal for combat. They are simply training tools to learn to manage distance, learn to cope with more pressure, practice falling etc .... and it may give some options that might just crop up by chance. Most importantly it develops your bodily structure & an understanding of internal "soft power". A 20 yr practitioner of Iwama-ryu will most likely develop a strong connected body. Think compound deadlifts vs superficial arm curls. However, i am sure that 90% of gentle aikido practitioners who have never had a fight are deluded when they think they could, or can resolve a violent situation calmly without hurting anyone LOL. That said, such people are not warriors and if they have fun and get something from it that gives them health and joy then fantastic.
Aikido can be what you want it to be, from zen meditation to destructively brutal. When he says "aikido is irimi" then that is spot on. Or as Jack Reacher would say "Reacher likes to get his revenge in early". There is no time to 'have a plan' as Mike Tyson put it. Locks are not going to happen with a competent fighter. A drunk idiot maybe .... i've done so more than once. But usually i just make it mentally clear that they would be better off leaving me in peace. Or if i have to then i deal with it. But overall at higher levels once the arrogant young youtube morons have grown up and carry on training they will slowly understand the deeper reality of the internal side of martial arts. When you see karateka, aikidoka, judoka, win chun or (martial) tai chi guys at higher levels, the arts start to blur as they realise this deeper meaning. They are all climbing the same mountain, but on different paths. A thai boxer destroys his shin bones and nerves when young. He can later barely walk right and in constant pain at 50. Many aikidoka carry on balanced and fit enough into their 80s. They instinctively know how to fall without injury instead of the usual frail elderly. They retain some strength in their skeletal and muscular structure. They walk quite normally in comparison to their aged peers. I know which of the two I would rather be.
This is the best comment here by a mile. A lot of the “soft styles” like aikido, tai chi, and judo can be devastatingly brutal if the user applies genuine force but what they all have in common is that they teach body mechanics, flow of power, and balance. You’re strong, but in control. A lot of young people are attracted to combat sports and “hard styles” that basically destroy your body. An old aikidoka is fit and healthy; an old Dutch kick-boxer can’t walk properly.
My friend was an Aikido instructor and his favorite survival move was the tuei technique. Usually with a 38 or 45 revolving method.
Asymmetric warfare. Never bring MMA to a tuei fight. I can dig it.
Very well done.👍🏻
What i liked the most in Jesse's video was the fact that Sensei Tamaki did recognized the "nerdfication", the fact that it's not a martial art for people who can or want to fight nowadays and that's the problem and usually it's a problem in most traditional martial arts. As i said in his video, it's not a problem with the martial art concept, mostly anything that respects biomechanics can work, the problem is in the training.
If a guy can punch, kick and throw based in biomechanical principles, the martial art can be called "Blublablublabla", it doesn't matter and it will work the same but they need to train combat consistently, they need to develop aerobical and anaerobical strength and this warrior mind state needed to fight.
I also agree that it's very hard to use Aikido if you don't want to hurt your opponent and in that matter i still don't believe you "Rokas" can see the true potential of such a martial art because you are a good guy and i don't believe you ever tried to really take someones arm home with you, really tried full psycho hurt someone.
Let me be clear about it, i'm no aikidoka, i never trained it but i trained other styles with similar concepts and the fact is that even someone who is weaker than you, if you go all gentle and slow you will hardly get anything based in stand up grappling techniques because while standing it's too easy to change positions. In the other way, if you go with too much violence, the person you are training with WILL GET HURT. So how do you train that? Something that's extremely dangerous when you put full effort and borderline useless if you do less than that?
Well, you don't, that's why those ninjutsu and Aikido schools suck, because they don't train for real, they don't even know about true power in application, they don't even know how hard it's to snap a bone, how far it can go without breaking, they just slowly apply techniques and then fail in any real time event and honestly it's also ok, most people need to work the next day.
“They don’t train for real!” So when your training MMA with your students you just go ahead snap their arms and legs and whatnot? How can you call MMA a real art if you don’t break your partners arm?
From my understanding of aikido, it can work as a combat sport AND also shouldn’t be used in self-defense except someone attacks you with killing intent. Aikido techniques often seem like, if applied with genuine force, they would really damage, like they’ll break joints.
In the police, they taught us to use joint locks, and as you'd expect it was mostly useless, especially against bigger or hyped up criminals. A dangerous practice for the police to use as it rarely worked.
I didn't get the feeling Sensei Tamaki was saying that MMA was bad or not useful, just different. I could be reading him wrong or perhaps the fact that English isn't his native language puts him at a disadvantage in expressing his feelings.
He was spouting the same nonsense proponents of “secret”, “deadly”, “invincible” martial arts always have
Where theoretical discussions get weird is when they ignore the existence of real-world evidence. Most often MMA fighters do exceptionally well in real defence situations unless outnumbered at least 3:1 or surprised with weapons.
I mean, you would expect someone in excellent physical shape who has a lot of experience with people trying to hit them and hitting them back to do well in a fight with (probably drunk) randoms. But at that point its not about the skill set per se as much as just fight experience. Imagine you remove "MMA" from the equation: if you did fight club for hours a week, for years, even without any formal training you would probably do great in a fight against random dudes for the same reasons. Skill set differences really come in when people are roughly the same in terms of "fighting" experience.
His misunderstanding of MMA rules rubbed me the wrong way as well but his sparring looked ok though as you said you could probably replicate most of what he did in other grappling styles. I guess if i can pinpoint something i didn't like about this sparring is how often he ended up blocking roundouse kicks with his forearms. He can do it in the video because Jesse is a gentleman throwing controlled shots but on full contact intensity you could break your arm.
I attend 3 sensei Tamaki 's aikido stages, and i really saw the approach i alwayse wanted tò see in aikido.
Finally something interesting to learn, different from usually aikido meeting.
I think he Is doing a great job.
From someone who did MMA early on, and had great success, I can say this guy, for the most part suffers from what they taught us in philosophy as a logical fallacy known as presentism. Art versus science; or to quotethe great Shaolin, Master: “if you want to win a fight, only, get a shotgun“ MMA is science no art. He obviously thinks the martial arts is only good for “winning the fight” which shows he doesn’t understand the first thing about it :-)
This is an amazing video 👍🏻
I practice Aikido my self and I learnt a lot from this. I’m currently on the 4th kyu
When people say things about how you can't use this style in intense sparring or in MMA, what I'm hearing is that it exists beyond the realm of observation, i.e., it's a form of faith based reasoning, in which case there's really not much reason to listen to any of the claims that follow. It'd be one thing to say something like "aikido hasn't produced a great pro fighter yet, but I think any day now someone's going to get good enough and athletic enough and start winning some big fights," which I would call a sort of empirical optimism, but if you define the style as being fundamentally unprovable to begin with, there's really no reason to even keep an eye on it.
I’ve witnessed you advancing in your pugilistic skills and am impressed with your progress. You’ve been able to tame your ego have taken an intellectual journey towards practical and useful solutions in combative arts. I salute you 🫡
I was so annoyed by the dirty fighting > MMA bullshit when watching Jesse's video. I didn't even finish watching.
I think the biggest takeaway from what he discussed in that video was about how the mindset of a lot of aikido practitioners today focus on one side of what aikido's creator taught to the point of not getting the whole picture. I personally never understood the notion only focus on de-escalation, but then you also train to use a sword which is a weapon that even when used in self defense is only effective through harming your opponent. Is it better if everyone can walk away from the situation uninjured? Absolutely. But it's not always a viable option.
Love that you did not approach this in bad faith. And your editing was nice though i wish it wad longer and had you talk about what he said with O-Sensei.
But ONE nitpick! I took his comments about MMA to indicate engagement within a singularly sport environment and not about MMA application to self defense. This contextualized his comments about MMA and striking to the knee. Immediately it was clear to me that he was talking about outright crushing the knee or isolating the patella to crush it in one go, similarly to what you might see in Silat where they will wrap the leg and fall on the knee intently at a transverse angle to rip the tendon attaching the femur and patella.
No one in any traditional martial art has more experience with eye pokes than an mma fighters
I was an MMA fighter like you, until I took an arrow to the knee.
😄😄 Yeah, those arrows tend to get into the knees
No such thing as pressure testing a martial arts system. You are pressure testing a martial arts practitioner. If the technique works with minimal resistance it works. If it doesn't work for you, you didn't apply correctly either technique or timing. Arm bars work. Only when they do. When they don't probably wasn't the time for it. Pressure training gets a person to realize when and if for technique. What order would you put technique, strength, mindset? This is all an argument about what's better? Rock, paper, or scissors?
Somebody told Rokas!
When I i first saw the thumbnail, i actually thought he WAS you 🤣
this was the video i was waiting for :)
I think about the boxing guard could be too much but what about just the hands up, at least you aren't defenseless against surprise attacks.
Now this is a true landmark video. On one hand you are reviewing an Aikido practitioner who followed the same guiding principles. On the other hand, you know the Uke very well and have trained/sparred with him so you can very confidently make this assessment. And to top it all off, you collaborate with Ramsey Dewey who had a bit of a complication during the tournament (which you designed, hosted and participated - quite effectively I may add - in), just showing a maturity and solidarity that I wish I saw more often (I don't care for the haters, I think season 1 was amazing because EVERYONE was amazing, and that certainly includes Ramsey).
Really, there is just so much to this video, so kudos for every last one of the accomplishments on display here and ... yeah, pumped for Season 2, but also for other videos.
Rokas, could you please provide the name of the master who taught you Aikido?
If you can learn MMA and add some of those deadly old Jujutsu moves that Kano removed from Judo, they you can make it work the same. The whole idea of MMA is mixed martial arts. MMA is not a style. It’s a concept of multiple different techniques of different styles. Yes, there are common martial arts, people practice for MMA, but that doesn’t apply to everyone. You can be proficient in boxing, muay thai and Judo and you’re all set. But that’s just my experience. I did Japanese Jujutsu as well and it served me well in self-defense. But I could do more than just that. And I used my own inner tactics. Something people of all martial arts needs to know.
Hello friend. At the moment the master says "in MMA don't attack the knees" he means to techniques to broke the knees (extreme danger), not simple low kick or wiped low kick to the knees used in regulary kombats. In Karate, they have Gedan yoko geri kekomi to broke the knee (including in kata) but is provided in kumite, sparring, etc. Please think about it.
Tamaki isn't saying he wouldn't use a lock for a person already off balance or for someone already down on the ground. He means that during the take down a lock shouldn't be applied or the uke will resist. That's actually pretty standard advice in Aikido. Tamaki's point about MMA is that Aikido techniques and street fighting techniques can't be practiced without the participation of the uke or the uke will get hurt so any live sparring that includes striking just reverts back to sports boxing and isn't a real test either. Martial art practice is like shooting. We practice by shooting paper, but we don't shoot real people during practice. We practice with rules to prevent injury in all martial arts, but for some reason the martial art people most criticize as not seeming real is Aikido. I believe it's because the ukes are taught so well to receive the technique that to a person who has never taken ukemi it seems the uke could never get hurt. But we practitioners know differently. Resisting the technique instantly causes pain and injury to us. Besides the pain of the joint locks we don't always have mats. In fact my dojo just had a concrete floor with a carpet over it, but no padding underneath the carpet. If the the tori isn't gentle or if the uke doesn't roll correctly he will be slammed down onto a concrete floor. That can cause serious injury or death. The pain we experience through resisting instead of active participation is something we instantly feel and that experience proves to us that the technique works. We can not get an observer to understand this. A million videos arguing over whether Aikido actually works is as stupid as arguing whether a gun can kill a person. Any adult can see it does work quite well. But we'd never want to feel the injury that a gun or any martial art like Aikido could cause to us and we would never want to cause those injuries or pain to anyone else. And as with a gun the power of Aikido is something you can't fully understand or respect until you feel it in your hands yourself. Until you feel that power you can't ever be trusted with it. That is why students are taught to take more ukemi than practicing their atemi. That tradition develops the sympathy necessary to prepare the tori for his responsibility to prevent injury to the uke.
A nice little reaction video to this. I must admit I wondered if you would do something on this since it seems to have followed (timing wise) quite closely behind your episode 2 of your own series. I enjoyed your responses to this, what you liked and didn't like and the fact that you were basing it on your own developed experience and study. Nice work!
The way he fights makes more sense when you consider it was intended initially for defending against sword attacks. The opponent is most dangerous in his distance and both his hands are not free. They wont quickly decide to drop it
Attacking knees is allowed in MMA but it is a tacite rules between fighters to not get severe injuries that cannot been undone. So there's a lot of hypocrisy amongs the MMA community. Also lot of MMA fans and fighters won't admit that MMA by itself is not even a style, only because you can't excel in specific field, either it's striking or grappling, you compensate your flaws with one or the other which is smart. Also, it shows traditionnal martial arts by itself is not enough either. People also missunderstanding the fact that, no matter the masters we are talking about, martial art or MMA, there is also the economic point that allowed fake masters to emerge.
After listening Master Tamaki, i believe the only way to truly use aikido in a fighting tournament would be under "attack head freely and attack joints as you like it doesn't matter what you bend or break", without any martial arts knowledge, aikido in those contexts feels to me like entering the fight only half punching and half kicking
A great video would be Rokas fighting Sensei Tamaki. Make it happen Rokas!!
Well it all good focusing on one opponent. For basic mma, there are something to be said in being to step off or miss direct multiple people