Thank you for taking this subject up. In Denmark, we are now allowed to convert cars to electric if. 1: The motor and controller has passed EMC together, and you can document this with a copy of the report. Not just the certificate. 2: the installation must be safe. (There is a standard you’ll have to pass) 3: the battery may not be mounted in the cabin, in front of the front wheels, or behind the rear wheels. 4: you may not increase the power with more than 20%. 5: you may not add weight. If you think your project can meet these requirements, you contact the government, and they look at your documentation, and tell you, if they think the project will pass. If the say yes, you build the car, and document the build, and if they are satisfied, they’ll allow you to go to the MOT, and get the car inspected. When that’s done, you go to the tax office, and they’ll appraise the car, and tax you, or refund you, and then you can register the car. So basically if I wanted to use your 911 kit. I would need: 1: A EMC report for the kit. 2: Documentation that it applies to the electrical safety regulations. 3: The battery may not be in the crumble zones. 4: the kit may not be to heavy. 5: the power may not exceed with more than 20%. (This is possible to exceed, it just take some more paperwork) But this is new legislation, and only a few cars have been registered. So in practice, a shop, would need to need to buy your kit, register one car, and after that, they’ll be able to convert all the cars they wanted after that very easily, as long as they don’t make any changes to the installation. Easy enough…. 😂
Just point 3 alone is a serious limitation for conversions, as in most cases the only realistic places where you can put batteries, in a old ICE car, is on the motor compartment and the trunk, putting the battery exclusively inside the passenger space, is way harder and will force a smaller battery and less range. And in many cars would probably require drilling holes in the chassis, so that point there, will prevent most ICE to EV conversions. And IMO that point there, is not there, for inocente reasons and certainly not because they care for safety.
Useless Bureaucracy constantly stifling the ability of UK and EU to make any advancements. Now and in the Future UK and EU will be economically annihilated by nations and societies free to build invent and innovate free of the INSANITY of USELESS Government lay-a-bouts.
@@deltajohnny they used to be a lot worse. EU made a rule, that the government translated to. ALL conversions has to pass a EMC test, at a certified test institution. That meant that the test was too expensive for anybody pay.
@@pablopicaro7649 On the other end of the spectrum, here in the US you never know what kind of danger you are being exposed to on the road. There is a guy on YT who dumped a Honda Odessy body on a striped \cut off Tesla chassis. Fun but not the safest thing (mostly for himself and his passengers) on the road.
Every time I watch one of your videos, I get flashbacks to Back to the Future II & the idea of people 'hoverconverting' their old road cars! Love the channel.
Very interesting video. Some things I think are not quite correct regarding modifying existing body shell. If the vehicle is chassis based rather than monocoque then the bodyshell can be altered as it is not part of the vehicles structure. If it is monocoque then it does get more challenging but there is an allowance for cutting into unstressed panels (ie how on earth do ALL the pop top converters do lifting roofs on campervans otherwise). This was clarified by ACE direct with the DVLA a few years ago (very unfortunately ACE are no more). They also confirmed that welded mounts and strengthening can be ADDED to existing structure but nothing can be removed or altered. I think the problem has been, for example with the famous mini conversion that was stripped of its V5 was that holes were drilled too close to edges/corners/structurally significant areas. The difficulty is that how close is too close, theres no rule book.
In Ireland, the conversion requires an inspection by an automotive engineer. Once approved, the vehicle can be reregistered and then taxed as an EV. The car can then go through a NCT test and be certified and approved for road use.
Here in Switzerland it is almost impossible to convert a classic car to electric. Yes, there are companies that do that, but they only do it for those who can afford such a conversion. This situation has now reached the Federal Council in Switzerland, and people are now thinking about whether they would like to adjust the rules. Thank you for this video, and greetings to you and your team from my home Switzerland
Dem Bundesrat sind die Dekarbonisierung und der Klimaschutz wichtige Anliegen. Deswegen hat der Bundesrat am 28. August 2019 die Erhöhung des Klimaziels der Schweiz bis 2050 beschlossen. Bis dahin wird eine ausgeglichene Treibhausgasbilanz ("Netto Null") angestrebt. Gleichzeitig muss aber sichergestellt sein, dass die grundlegenden sicherheitsrelevanten Anforderungen weiterhin erfüllt und auch kontrolliert werden. Beim serienmässigen Umbau von Verbrennungs- zu Elektromotoren ist bereits heute die Erteilung einer "Umbau-Typengenehmigung" durch anerkannte Prüfstellen möglich. Soll also eine ganze Serie von Fahrzeugen umgebaut werden, kann eine Genehmigung für die ganze Serie beantragt werden. In diesem Fall muss nicht jedes Fahrzeug einzeln geprüft werden. Nach derzeitigem Kenntnisstand bestand dafür bislang jedoch keine Nachfrage. Der Spielraum für weitere Erleichterungen beim Umbau von Fahrzeugen mit Verbrennungsmotor zu solchen mit einem Elektroantrieb ist aus Gründen der Verkehrssicherheit eng. Die Betriebssicherheit, die elektrische Sicherheit und die elektromagnetische Verträglichkeit müssen weiterhin sichergestellt sein. Der Bundesrat ist indessen bereit, den bestehenden Spielraum zu nutzen und im Rahmen einer laufenden Revision der Vorschriften weitere Erleichterungen zur Diskussion zu stellen. Weitergehende Erleichterungen in Bezug auf Einzelfahrzeuge sind nach Ansicht des Bundesrates nicht zu rechtfertigen. Seems there are no big changes to come for single vehicles, but maybe a conversion kit could be legalized as a series of conversions. In general the federal council wants to decline that "Motion"...
😂Wait to see Spain, you cannot even install or modify a light bulb.... The law prohibits you, unless you move so many paperwork signed and approved by an engineer that makes a simple change of light bulb rise to exorbitant prices, a simple change of light bulb color can be worth more than the car😂😂😂
It would be interesting to hear from the viewpoint of one of the DVLA inspectors. What are they seeing, how different is it from a traditional ICE inspection. Did they have to go through additional training related to EVs in general?
Very interesting. I used yo work at Lunaz who do very high end EV conversions. We had to hold to great lengths to install things using the same mounts and holes etc. You aren't allowed to weld on new mounts (which does seem a bit ridiculous), but you are allowed to make brackets that clamp on to existing components. Such as chassis legs etc. These xan also be bonded on for extra strength. Which makes the no welding rule a bit of a farce. I also in the past ran an LPG conversion business and you were allowed to mount the tank within the cabin (boot) and you were specifically required to drill holes for vents, mounting bolts and pipes. However, you weren't required to register it as LPG on the V5, in fact it was practically impossible to do so. But the was a legal body called LPGA that had worked to define a code of practice for installations, training schemes and installer/inspector registration. And an LPG register and certification system which the insurers had approved and could access. EV conversions could really do with something similar. It will no doubt happen when someone either gets seriously hurt by a converted EV or there is a vehicle fire. But it will take dome time to put a governing body together and code of practice.
Thanks Richard. The main point of the regulations is that safety is maintained. Secondly, the buyer knows what they are purchasing when you sell the vehicle.
The result is fewer people will convert their car & those same cars will go about, burning fuel & polluting, when they could have be EV and cleaner. ..
In the 1970s 5* was withdrawn. In 2000 4* petrol mostly disappeared from forecourts with Lrp following suit in 2003. E5 is only guaranteed to be available till 2026. No vehicle owner as far as I am aware was asked before hand on their opinion. I haven't spent thousands of pounds and unknown number of hours on my classic cars to have them sit in the garage. If I can keep enjoying the experience of driving my 60 & 70 plus year old cars, with the bonus of knowing the conversion has been carried out with the respect these old cars deserve then that's fine by me. Plus of course the conversion makes having a modern car unnecessary.
@@ElectricClassicCars The problem I see with using original locations is the weight of the new components on the old mounting points... Eg 100kg engine 15mm bolts changed to 250kg battery still using DVLA 15mm bolts/mounts that`s a hell of a lot of weight difference on those old locations to restrain in an impact... I do see a lot of issues like battery packs snapping those old spec size bolts in the future... Already seen some battery boxes just resting and not bolted on chassis rails and still pass the DVLA rules... Suspecting motors mounts are the same Eg lots of power old spec size bolts/mounting points.... The knock on effect will be law suits for owners/builders/kit providers... The DVLA have literally made a trap that people have not seen in the small print... A ticking time bomb just waiting to happen...
@@kylereese4822Having been involved in countless DVLA technical inspections I can assure you that they would not pass a car whose battery box is simply resting on a chassis rail or held insecurely in any way.
@@ElectricClassicCars I think you had shown previously how the weight of the new components is designed not to exceed the existing weight distribution, I have a feeling most mounting points on UK classic cars were a bit "over engineered" anyway, even if BLMC had to add additional anti rattle bars and gearbox restraint wires as builds changed over production runs. Is there a problem with battery mounting compared to petrol fueling inso far as generally for weight "the tank is always full"
Well explained! I’ve converted many many vehicles in the UK and not always followed the rules by the letter in the past ie Porsche engine swaps into T1 Beetles and T2 vans back in the 1980’s!! 😂
Complicated process, appreciate hearing about it. Have to agree with the DVLA approach to this, seems well thought out. My brother in law was an engineer for the Australian version of the DVLA and worked on testing conversions to see if they complied with law. He loved the job.
Very interesting and I've always loved that your conversions are completely bolt-in. I'm in the US and I converted a Ford Ranger. A nice heavy frame rather than a monocoque body certainly gave me a lot more options but the heavy stuff mostly used existing mounting points. The front battery box is attached to the old engine mounts and the motor/gearbox combo is using the original transmission mount. Under the bed in the back I built a frame to hold the battery boxes. It basically rests on top of the frame rails. I did drill some holes to bolt it in place so it won't move. And I did drill a few holes for cable management. I had to trailer it to a DMV inspection station. The state has a checklist they use. As you said, most of the items are safety related including weighing it and putting it on a brake tester (drive on the big metal plate and hit the brakes). And the most important things was for them to verify there was no longer a place to pour fuel so I could be exempt from our biennial emissions tests.
I am in Georgia and I sent in photos and a letter from EV West saying that the car was 100 percent electric. The registration now says that the vehicle is electric.
Thanks. Once I get in there I can determine if it is part of a bolt-on wing structure (which I don't think counts) or part of the main structure. Ugly bracket in the boot then!
Lots. Any car with a roll cage (which means the whole rally industry is working illegally), any van that’s been converted to a camper, any LPG converted car, any classic car that’s had seat belts retro fitted, etc the list is long. 😉👍
Great info, one thing I have also wondered is how a conversion to electric effects insurance? Would a conversion mean insurance would go up or down because of the new power of the target vehicle? Thanks ⭐️
I did an electric conversion on my 1966 beetle using parts and the schematics provided by EV-West. I drilled several holes in the sheet metal in the floor pan and a few other places for fastening wires. The state🎉 (Georgia) approve the changing of the fuel type to electric. My car is insured as an electric vehicle but it has never been inspected other than photos. Thank for all the cool stuff you are doing. Ron Riley
I have a stretched Land Rover, modified at Solihull to what later became the 127 spec. It is registered as a 110 pickup because there was no other model designation existing at that time. Presumably a similar situation applies to other pre-production vehicles when a new model is yet to be launched.
I'd be interested in hearing about which UK insurers (if any) are good about insuring a highly-modified car as an electric conversion would be. Insurance always an important concern!
Great to get not just a clear video re DVLA EV rules and the points system as well as see from comments how various countries (and states in them) adapt to consumer love of classic cars yet wish to future proof them a bit re fuel changes. One thing that it raises is how on the points system does it work when you change the subframe and on that subframe it also has the suspension mounts. Was that classified as a suspension change or only if the suspension items themselves change? Otherwise you would only end up with 7 points (5 for the chassis and 2 for the steering). Hopefully you got the suspension points even when the mount they are on changed. I didnt see any Ferrari gearbox letting you keep the axel points.
once, I wanted to bring back to Italy a motorbike I bought while I was living in the US. So, I went to the local DMV to know if it was possible to register it and any modification I might have to do. They replied to me that I had to bring the bike in for them to give me an answer. So, I explained to them that it was the same model sold in Italy, and I wanted to know what to expect before spending thousands to ship the bike. They replied to me .... that I had to bring the bike in for them to give me an answer. And, that was pretty much it!
It won't affect you, but the DVLA won't update the fuel type of 2001+ cars. Basically any car that has the emissions on the v5. They still send the inspector though
@@rkan2 LOL, I'm not sure I have the range to do that. I don't have fast charging yet and the nearest ULEZ zone would be a ferry ride and several hundred miles away. .
Nice, thank you! Although I'm located in the Netherlands, I am interested in the costs involved and time from request to plate so to speak. Thank you for that😀
This process is much closer to doing modifications to Aircraft than the "wild west" approach in the USA to car mods. We have to do everything in accordance with approved data and it can be a major exercise to do the most basic mods and repairs with a major paper work trail . In aviation we have a saying that when the paperwork weighs the same as the aircraft its ready to fly....
I live in Northern Ireland (still part of the UK but we have a slightly different MOT system here😉) and when I contacted the DVLA to inform them of my EV conversion I was advised to get it MOT'd first, then send in the V5. I then had to take my car to the MOT centre for inspection. Other than that everything was as Moggy said.
@@hughmarcus1No an MOT centre would not have done an IVA, that’s a much more in depth process than an MOT and is carried out at specific test centres. 👍
@@ElectricClassicCars Isnt the point that NI MOT is Govt Run rather than private garages - so it is more like the commercial vehicle COF. testing and plating testing stations in GB
@@hughmarcus1you're right about the guys in the MOT centre but amazingly they were not allowed to do anything except a visual inspection and take photos. These were sent back to the DVLA for them to make the decision remotely. It's bonkers.
Very timely episode! I just finished upgrading my electric 914 with 6 Tesla battery modules and it's on a ship now from America to my new home in Spain. I've hired a guy who handles car imports into Spain, mostly coming from the UK. Since the car has been converted to electric, he says the car needs to be inspected by his engineer who writes a report, then taken to his favourite inspection station for certification. Fingers crossed! He says the Spanish are particularly interested in headlights and the color and placement of light lenses around the car. I did find out late in the conversion that I need to install a rear-facing fog light - madness!
Good luck with your process! 👏👏👏I am from Spain, and if you are moving your residence to my country, perhaps you will be lucky and succeed in legally registering the car 😁 If you were importing the car as a normal person, it would be almost impossible to do it, bad if you are moving from USA to Spain, things are much easier. Rear fog light is mandatory, but the rest of the things use to be ok
Amazing that people actually want to do this! Genuinely amazed. Your clients clearly are very different from the rest of society. Too much money and guilt about it too.
Very interesting. I believe that for patrimonial cars that people want to keep driving on the roads, conversion is a good idea (tho I'm hearing about planned obsolescence for existing ICE vehicles in Europe with legal age limits for repairs that would send them to the junkyard or static collections. Hope it's not for tomorrow).
Curious if the inspector weighs each corner and checks you've not exceeded the manufactures loading of each axle or shifting the weight bias significantly.
I looked into it a bit for France, and they used to make it almost impossible, but I believe they now, or will soon, allow conversions to be done by shops that are qualified by them to do it. I don't know any more details.
I wish it was more like the US here, cheers DVLA for depriving us of such an interesting element of vehicle culture. Look at all their restomods with improved suspension geometry etc. Like many of our laws, it's totally unenforceable. How many cars do you think have an extra hole somewhere for a sound install, camper conversion etc. If everyone wanted an inspection it would take 100 years and most cars over 10 years old would be on Q plates.
In Bulgaria too, unfortunately! I was living in England for ~15 years and went back to Bulgaria to do ICE to EV conversions (and photovoltaics). However it turns out that the organisation responsible for the checks (Technotest) don't even have the equipment to do EMC checks and they are not even planning to buy some 😡! So it is better to do the conversion in Romania otherwise you won't be able to make the car road legal. Just to mention that both countries are in the EU, it comes to show how different the legislation from country to country is.
I was interested to hear you suggest that drilling a van floor for a drain in a camper should be reported. I've never seen any TH-cam converter mention that. I have a long-term van conversion ongoing, but I intend to drain my waste tank via a pipe through an open door. I'm terrified of drilling holes through the body! Thanks for a really useful video.
I was also wondering about that, seen as my Vauxhall Vivaro campervan conversion has the diesel heater under the drivers seat and a large hole for the turret had to be cut out of the floor. But it was my MOT garage that carried out the work as he also converts campervans and if it was an issue he would't be doing these conversions.
A lot of people and companies do these kind of mods every day but they don’t inform the DVLA. If they did then they’d fall fowl of the Radically Altered points system and lose their registration.
@@irishrover63They’re obviously not aware of the rules or choose to ignore them. If you’re unsure whether the modifications are a problem you can contact the DVLA directly via phone or email. 👍
Thanks for the video.. but Spitting feathers ! . Is it still true you don't get a 2nd go? if the inspector declare a fail on an extra hole , the reg is cancelled & you can't weld it up & call him back, pay again . Despite this being a "rebuilt car inspection" which will have had lots of welding already. The IVA route will also ban alot of dash board features on classic cars as too sharp, & does it need expensive battery proving. Is there any hope of the DVLA becoming more relaxed about this? For America look to Super Fast Matt on youtube conversion of a Jag to tesla , we are talking half the chassis cut away
Why aren't the subframes considered to be part of the chassis? They are a structural part of the car and if removed from the vehicle will affect the structural integrity of the vehicle? I know that you will put your own subframe in to add stiffness where the engine and subframe were, but surely that's a modification. Imagine if the whole car was made up of bolted sections, where would the chassis end?
Well having been watching Jonny Smith _radically_ alter an Austin Allegro (aka "The Agro") over on The Late Brake Show channel, then I guess we can expect to see a Q plate on that vehicle. I mean, he's literally gone for 0 points. New engine, new trans, new steering, new axles, new suspension, and numerous welds and mods to the monocoque. Funny that I don't recall him discussing any of that though. 🤔
@@marcos3ltrv6As far as I'm aware the "Radically Altered Vehicles" rules on the DVLA site apply to _all_ vehicles that are modified. I see nothing that links it to converting from FF to EV. If the Agro does not have a Q plate, it's going to be illegal to use it on the roads.
Richard, Very useful video as I am doing a conversion at the moment. What would the DVLA view be on, for example, enlarging the current fuel filler hole to accommodate a CCS connector? Thanks
Belgium requires that the original manufacturer certifies the modification. Unlikely they would do such thing. So if you want to modify a vehicle to electric on Belgium, you likely would first register it in germany or the Netherlands and then export it to belgium
That Defender seems to comply with the eight present or upcoming English CAZ Zones, the Scottish CAZ but fails the London ULEZ zone. Is it exempt in London?
My word, I had this exact thought last night and was trying to find where would be a good video to post it. I’ve missed the chance to put the lottery on tonight 😂
What happens when other/previous work has already contributed to a point reduction. e.g. if you'd done a leaf to coil-over conversion in the past and are there any exceptions where work is done to increase safety, not just roll cage type work but say if you fitted 3-point seatbelts to a classic that previously only had lap belts.,
This is a problem. If you convert a car to electric that previously had work done on it that is deemed a modification to the chassis or monocoque e.g. retrofitting seatbelts onto a classic car that never had seat belts by drilling holes and using spreader plates or welding mounts in, or having a roll cage.
@@ElectricClassicCars TUV rules(even more strict than the UK) over in Europe they allow you modify the chassis boot floor/spare wheel well to mount the battery box a minimum 200 mm inboard of the rear bumper mounts thus leaving a crash absorbing structure... That allows the battery to be in its own sealed box safely away from passengers and as far away from the passenger cell as possible... That`s were the DVLA dangerously fails... Losing points for safety in this case by stopping the relocating of a danger to as far away from occupants as possible.
@@rkan2 There may be less brake wear if regen , though the retardation force is the same (but some is dissapated as electric charging rather than being all heat)
Though it still does not answer the questions about the DVLA changing the V5 to electric then back to ICE, as discused in several online groups for post 2001 vehicle conversions.
I’m not familiar with the regulations in my home country, Spain. But considering the recent delivery of the beautiful black Land Rover Defender to your client in Barcelona, I was wondering if this Land Rover is going to be road legal in Spain or if its owner is going to have to go through further domestic legal procedures to obtain some sort of permit for Spain. Thanks in advance.
@@ianrobins5501 "New regulations are planned to enter into force in autumn 2024." - transportstyrelsen Is Sweden planning law changes this year for electric car conversions?
Doesn’t effect most of your conversions, except some recent defenders, but have the DVLA changed the rules on the 2001-2017 cars then. Didn’t think the DVLA allowed cars from that period to be converted at all because the taxation class can’t be changed. London Electric Cars raised it as an issue several years ago
In Germany it's nearly impossible to convert cars legally tp electric. You would need to take stakes as high as if it would be a complete new car with Crashtests etc...
Not sure why my response is not showing but the above is simply not true. There are clear rules on how to go about it and there are several companies doing this. I have ridden in 3 converted cars and know of a half a dozen more. No crash tests etc. The biggest problem is finding a TÜV engineer that will take on the project and most of them won't... Was der Bauer nicht kennt...
Here in Taiwan prohibits all forms of engine modifications. In addition to engine, transmission and fuel type changes being prohibited, the length and width of the vehicle body also cannot be altered. Hope one day I can legally convert my old Honda into an electric vehicle in Taiwan.
Does this mean that every rally car (ICE or electric!), for example, should be IVAd or Q-plated? They are heavily modified monocoques, weld in roll cages, modified suspension, altered fuel systems with modified and relocated fuel tanks etc. Surely motorsport rules don't overrule that of the dvla/govt., or have they got some special exemption? In which case, why haven't other vehicles got the same?
Might seem crazy question but could you glue something to the chassis or would that count as a modification? I mean if Lotus can glue a chassis together why couldnt you glue the mount for an inverter or a small junction box in place?
Very interesting video, I have often wondered of the feasibility of someone offering an engineered kit to convert a popular car say a modern IC powered Fiat 500 to electric. I completely understand the logic behind re using existing holes because the chassis will have been tested for structural integrity. Taking it as far as not allowing screw fixing for cabling does seem a bit extreme and by all accounts there must be loads of cars that would fail this test, any car that has an aftermarket stereo fitted is likely to have extra holes drilled to mount amps and fix cabling, similarly all those cars that had powerful driving lights added a couple of decades ago, (I might have done that, oops), I think the mounting holes are the least of the regulators problem. :0) Amazing and professional looking job you guys do here, although I am a little conflicted over swapping out the original and often characterful engine from a classic IC powered car. Given how little use these cars get, surely better to convert older ‘cooking’ models? A standardised kit for popular cars perhaps. But I guess there isn’t the money for this market, which makes it all a bit niche doesn’t it?
Sorry if my comment came across as a bit negative, I really like the work you do. I guess, as some one who worked on the development of regenerative variable speed drives for electric vehicles back in the early 80's I'm more than just a bit frustrated that it has taken so long for the benefits of electric drive to become mainstream.
….so you keep the number plate and chassis number- if the original vehicle was exempt from road tax and MOT due to age, does the electric conversion mean all those processes have to be restarted?
In Australia, the rules with regards to Electric Conversion of vehicles are similar to the rules in the UK. I am not sure if the UK follows a British or European Standard, but in Australia, any Electric Vehicle Conversion must follow NCOP 14. I am also not certain with regards to the Technical Inspection / Approval Process in the UK, and who pays for that to reach completion? In Australia, it isn't cheap, and this Technical Approval Process must be funded by the owner of the newly-converted EV. Also in Australia, following EV Conversion, you are issued with new Registration Plates, and the new Registration Plates must also bear a small blue triangle with the letters "EV" within this triangle. The sole reason for the blue EV triangle, is for the identification of the vehicle, for first responders, such as a Road Accident or vehicle fire. For anyone contemplating an EV Conversion of any Classic Car, my advice is to do some groundwork. The first thing, would be to make contact with your Vehicle Insurer, and explain to them your intentions. This was the first thing that I did, before completing an EV Conversion on my '71 Super Beetle, back in 2019. Hope that this helps.
So you in effect are saying every van in the uk that has ply panels in the side does not meet standards due to holes drilled for self tappers also when a police car has holes drilled for cables and aerials that also does not meet standards .
I have built an electric cobra in the UK and gone through registration process. as it was effectively a new car (not previously registered ) I had to get it IVA tested, however before it could be IVA tested it needed to be tested by MIRA for compliance with R100.1. This is a simple process, but bloody expensive. However, if you are spending 50-100k on a conversion / restoration / new build then I would say that the price of this option is probably not a deal breaker.
MIRA is very expensive to get r100.01 testing. It’s a shame you can’t post pictures in TH-cam comments as I’d love to see the Cobra. I love Cobras. Do you have a link to it?
@@ElectricClassicCars I have a few posts on Facebook groups , Tesla Conversions and the Zero EV group. Should be in a few magazines soon. Its tesla LDU, 12 tesla modules, petersen gauges, dce epas, Zero EV CCS system. Scratch built on a 2024 plate
Hey - awsome video - again - I Love your defender - best car ever !!! What abtut the biiig defender you buhlt Witze the three Moterbikes on - was it swedisch - same Jules for them ? Í'm so Interesse hol Thi in Germany works wich the TüV ?!
Can you please confirm - it's not possible to EV-convert any monocoque car that has had bodywork modifications, if you want to retain the original registration?
If the monocoque has been modified and the owner has declared that modification to the DVLA the likelihood is that the car will lose the original registration.
@@ElectricClassicCars - a mini that has its original shell, chassis number and is running on it's original engine, so has never had any modifications declared to the DVLA, but has been de-seamed?
No more holes! What a ridiculous rule. I've made an awful lot of holes in my van over the last 25 years, adding battery mounts, moving bits elsewhere in the engine bay, and putting a camper conversion in the back. OK, I'm not changing the fuel, but it never occurred to me in that time that there might be any restrictions on such a thing. Obviously mounting the batts and motors on something sufficiently solid makes sense, but not adding cable and pipe management brackets is silly.
So you leave the Chassis unmodified, so that gives you 5, and I assume you leave the steering assembly unmodified, so you keep 7. The transmission and engine are obviously modified, so you lose 3 there. They explicitly state axles, but I assume they are using that to also refer to driveshafts, so that counts as modified and you lose 2. But, what is classified as non-original suspension? For the Teslarossa, you aren't using the original suspension mounts as you aren't using the original subframe, nor are you using the original or OE-matching coils and dampers as you are using semi active coilovers from raceshocks. So how do you still get the +2 points for original suspension?? I am currently in the planning phase of my own conversion and the rules are so unbelievably vague, and I cannot afford to break any of them as I'm on a rather tight budget, any help would be greatly appreciated :).
So, when you have international customers, like the Swedish one, is that converted according to the rules of that country or is it a private import back and fourth somehow and British rules apply?
Is it a big deal to not be able to keep the original registration number and have to go for an IVA test? The point system seems very restrictive. Many classic cars have outdated components to begin with and would best be upgraded to handle the extra torque/HP.
I'm an international immigrant viewer. I went with the much simpler route of just buying a new EV so I'm unfortunately unsure how that would work. I've never seen an EV converted vehicle out here. I am curious how to make my electric scooter lighter as handling the current weight makes my muscles sore if I ride it any lengthy distance
I believe the 2000 Passat should be fine but anything after 2001 the DVLA can not change the fuel type to electric on their system for some reason. You still need to inform them though. 👍
At least the DVLA are using independent inspectors who actually know about vehicles. The DVLAs own 'trained vehicle inspectors' know almost nothing. On more than one occasion, I've had to point out that the long number on the frame of an older Italian motorcycle, prefixed OGM or DMG, is the type approval number for the model. For decades they've been getting this wrong and occasionally wondering why they have so many duplicate frame numbers, but not actually doing anything to fix the situation.
Interesting information. It’s obvious that the cars must be save. Can you drive a converted car into a country where the regulations are different from the country where It is build? By the way, the Ferrari V12 looks so much better than the Tesla motor.
Could somebody please explain the way the British use the word "engineer" when talking about cars. In the United States we think of an engineer as someone who has spent 4 years in college and has earned a bachelor's degree. The impression I get is that when the British refer to an "engineer" they are referring to an auto repair specialist of some sort. I have the impression that this sort of engineer is something beyond the average mechanic but I definitely don't understand the details.
I think the British have been speaking English longer than any other country so probably have the right to claim the correct usage of the language. In this case the person involved will probably have some form of degree in mechanical engineering, therefore an engineer.
An auto engineer has done a recognised college qualification involving doing the materials and maths. This will be an advanced Tech course like a HND or an actual Degree. They will also have probably qualified as a welder and or MOT/SVA inspector. That said if you have decades of practical experience in producing modified vehicles and are fitting quality aftermarket components then there is still the competition vehicles inspections and engineers inspection and report. That would go to an MOT inspector or DVLA and your insurance company. There remains the idiots that lower their suspension and fit big wheels, exhausts and turbos that blow off just going down the road and tyre sizes that cause problems.. as well as rip the underside off and damage tyres and rims because of speed control humps..aka sleeping policemen 😂 or the god awful state of the roads with water filled pot holes that claim countless cars m/cycles and bicycles daily. 😬 Even if your driving a Landrover.
In English English to engineer is also a verb. Designing and creating something technical is to engineer it and so the person doing it is an engineer. Anyone can be an engineer. Do you think George Stephenson, Isombard Kingdom Brunel and Thomas Telford had degrees from college? And for me just having a degree from college doesn’t necessarily make you an engineer even if you did engineering. You actual to have have engineered something. That can be software engineering, electronic engineering, mechanical engineering, civic engineering, bio engineering and so on. So yes, what’s being done here is very very much engineering.
@@alibro7512we speak a hodgepodge of imported languages, English is really just a mix of French and Dutch-German with a few modern additions from languages urdu. You could probably claim Americans speak a purer version of English as theirs hasnt evolved much since C17; where as British-English is constantly evolving. Engineer in this context is the construction process, rather than the person although a technical skill set is needed wasting years at university for a piece of paper saying you showed up to class occasionally isn’t required in Britain. Many of Britain’s most famous engineers will have been trained through an apprenticeship approach.
@@ElectricClassicCarsif the regen is set to decelerate you quite firmly when you let off the accelerator, does it turn on the brake lights? I have a car (ICE) with hill descent mode and that puts on the brake lights.
@@nickwagner9339 I don't have ALL the info, but I can tell you what I know based on some friends that did it. In Italy you can't modify anything on cars nor register cars that shouldn't be sold here. SO we register them in Germany, do the TUV safety test for the registration there, then with all the correct German paperwork they're imported in Italy.
That’s incredibly helpful. Also, it goes to show why conversion- done properly- can never really be done on a shoestring budget.
Thank you for taking this subject up. In Denmark, we are now allowed to convert cars to electric if.
1: The motor and controller has passed EMC together, and you can document this with a copy of the report. Not just the certificate.
2: the installation must be safe. (There is a standard you’ll have to pass)
3: the battery may not be mounted in the cabin, in front of the front wheels, or behind the rear wheels.
4: you may not increase the power with more than 20%.
5: you may not add weight.
If you think your project can meet these requirements, you contact the government, and they look at your documentation, and tell you, if they think the project will pass. If the say yes, you build the car, and document the build, and if they are satisfied, they’ll allow you to go to the MOT, and get the car inspected. When that’s done, you go to the tax office, and they’ll appraise the car, and tax you, or refund you, and then you can register the car.
So basically if I wanted to use your 911 kit. I would need:
1: A EMC report for the kit.
2: Documentation that it applies to the electrical safety regulations.
3: The battery may not be in the crumble zones.
4: the kit may not be to heavy.
5: the power may not exceed with more than 20%. (This is possible to exceed, it just take some more paperwork)
But this is new legislation, and only a few cars have been registered.
So in practice, a shop, would need to need to buy your kit, register one car, and after that, they’ll be able to convert all the cars they wanted after that very easily, as long as they don’t make any changes to the installation.
Easy enough…. 😂
Just point 3 alone is a serious limitation for conversions, as in most cases the only realistic places where you can put batteries, in a old ICE car, is on the motor compartment and the trunk, putting the battery exclusively inside the passenger space, is way harder and will force a smaller battery and less range. And in many cars would probably require drilling holes in the chassis, so that point there, will prevent most ICE to EV conversions.
And IMO that point there, is not there, for inocente reasons and certainly not because they care for safety.
Wow! Very strict regulations, and they make sense 👍👍
Useless Bureaucracy constantly stifling the ability of UK and EU to make any advancements. Now and in the Future UK and EU will be economically annihilated by nations and societies free to build invent and innovate free of the INSANITY of USELESS Government lay-a-bouts.
@@deltajohnny they used to be a lot worse. EU made a rule, that the government translated to. ALL conversions has to pass a EMC test, at a certified test institution. That meant that the test was too expensive for anybody pay.
@@pablopicaro7649 On the other end of the spectrum, here in the US you never know what kind of danger you are being exposed to on the road. There is a guy on YT who dumped a Honda Odessy body on a striped \cut off Tesla chassis. Fun but not the safest thing (mostly for himself and his passengers) on the road.
Every time I watch one of your videos, I get flashbacks to Back to the Future II & the idea of people 'hoverconverting' their old road cars! Love the channel.
Very interesting video. Some things I think are not quite correct regarding modifying existing body shell. If the vehicle is chassis based rather than monocoque then the bodyshell can be altered as it is not part of the vehicles structure. If it is monocoque then it does get more challenging but there is an allowance for cutting into unstressed panels (ie how on earth do ALL the pop top converters do lifting roofs on campervans otherwise). This was clarified by ACE direct with the DVLA a few years ago (very unfortunately ACE are no more). They also confirmed that welded mounts and strengthening can be ADDED to existing structure but nothing can be removed or altered. I think the problem has been, for example with the famous mini conversion that was stripped of its V5 was that holes were drilled too close to edges/corners/structurally significant areas. The difficulty is that how close is too close, theres no rule book.
In Ireland, the conversion requires an inspection by an automotive engineer. Once approved, the vehicle can be reregistered and then taxed as an EV. The car can then go through a NCT test and be certified and approved for road use.
Good information. Thanks for posting. We’ve had a few customers successfully go through that process in Ireland. 👍
Here in Switzerland it is almost impossible to convert a classic car to electric. Yes, there are companies that do that, but they only do it for those who can afford such a conversion. This situation has now reached the Federal Council in Switzerland, and people are now thinking about whether they would like to adjust the rules. Thank you for this video, and greetings to you and your team from my home Switzerland
Good information. Thanks for sharing. 👍
Yes it seams that finally our government realised the nessesity of converting ice cars🇨🇭
Dem Bundesrat sind die Dekarbonisierung und der Klimaschutz wichtige Anliegen. Deswegen hat der Bundesrat am 28. August 2019 die Erhöhung des Klimaziels der Schweiz bis 2050 beschlossen. Bis dahin wird eine ausgeglichene Treibhausgasbilanz ("Netto Null") angestrebt. Gleichzeitig muss aber sichergestellt sein, dass die grundlegenden sicherheitsrelevanten Anforderungen weiterhin erfüllt und auch kontrolliert werden.
Beim serienmässigen Umbau von Verbrennungs- zu Elektromotoren ist bereits heute die Erteilung einer "Umbau-Typengenehmigung" durch anerkannte Prüfstellen möglich. Soll also eine ganze Serie von Fahrzeugen umgebaut werden, kann eine Genehmigung für die ganze Serie beantragt werden. In diesem Fall muss nicht jedes Fahrzeug einzeln geprüft werden. Nach derzeitigem Kenntnisstand bestand dafür bislang jedoch keine Nachfrage.
Der Spielraum für weitere Erleichterungen beim Umbau von Fahrzeugen mit Verbrennungsmotor zu solchen mit einem Elektroantrieb ist aus Gründen der Verkehrssicherheit eng. Die Betriebssicherheit, die elektrische Sicherheit und die elektromagnetische Verträglichkeit müssen weiterhin sichergestellt sein. Der Bundesrat ist indessen bereit, den bestehenden Spielraum zu nutzen und im Rahmen einer laufenden Revision der Vorschriften weitere Erleichterungen zur Diskussion zu stellen.
Weitergehende Erleichterungen in Bezug auf Einzelfahrzeuge sind nach Ansicht des Bundesrates nicht zu rechtfertigen.
Seems there are no big changes to come for single vehicles, but maybe a conversion kit could be legalized as a series of conversions.
In general the federal council wants to decline that "Motion"...
😂Wait to see Spain, you cannot even install or modify a light bulb.... The law prohibits you, unless you move so many paperwork signed and approved by an engineer that makes a simple change of light bulb rise to exorbitant prices, a simple change of light bulb color can be worth more than the car😂😂😂
It would be interesting to hear from the viewpoint of one of the DVLA inspectors. What are they seeing, how different is it from a traditional ICE inspection. Did they have to go through additional training related to EVs in general?
Very interesting.
I used yo work at Lunaz who do very high end EV conversions. We had to hold to great lengths to install things using the same mounts and holes etc.
You aren't allowed to weld on new mounts (which does seem a bit ridiculous), but you are allowed to make brackets that clamp on to existing components. Such as chassis legs etc. These xan also be bonded on for extra strength. Which makes the no welding rule a bit of a farce.
I also in the past ran an LPG conversion business and you were allowed to mount the tank within the cabin (boot) and you were specifically required to drill holes for vents, mounting bolts and pipes. However, you weren't required to register it as LPG on the V5, in fact it was practically impossible to do so. But the was a legal body called LPGA that had worked to define a code of practice for installations, training schemes and installer/inspector registration. And an LPG register and certification system which the insurers had approved and could access.
EV conversions could really do with something similar. It will no doubt happen when someone either gets seriously hurt by a converted EV or there is a vehicle fire.
But it will take dome time to put a governing body together and code of practice.
Thanks Richard. The main point of the regulations is that safety is maintained. Secondly, the buyer knows what they are purchasing when you sell the vehicle.
The result is fewer people will convert their car & those same cars will go about, burning fuel & polluting, when they could have be EV and cleaner. ..
In the 1970s 5* was withdrawn. In 2000 4* petrol mostly disappeared from forecourts with Lrp following suit in 2003. E5 is only guaranteed to be available till 2026. No vehicle owner as far as I am aware was asked before hand on their opinion. I haven't spent thousands of pounds and unknown number of hours on my classic cars to have them sit in the garage. If I can keep enjoying the experience of driving my 60 & 70 plus year old cars, with the bonus of knowing the conversion has been carried out with the respect these old cars deserve then that's fine by me. Plus of course the conversion makes having a modern car unnecessary.
Useful info. But as you say, you've always respected classic cars and you make fully reversible conversion kits. Great business plan!!
Thanks! 👍
@@ElectricClassicCars The problem I see with using original locations is the weight of the new components on the old mounting points...
Eg 100kg engine 15mm bolts changed to 250kg battery still using DVLA 15mm bolts/mounts that`s a hell of a lot of weight difference on those old locations to restrain in an impact...
I do see a lot of issues like battery packs snapping those old spec size bolts in the future... Already seen some battery boxes just resting and not bolted on chassis rails and still pass the DVLA rules...
Suspecting motors mounts are the same Eg lots of power old spec size bolts/mounting points....
The knock on effect will be law suits for owners/builders/kit providers...
The DVLA have literally made a trap that people have not seen in the small print...
A ticking time bomb just waiting to happen...
@@kylereese4822Having been involved in countless DVLA technical inspections I can assure you that they would not pass a car whose battery box is simply resting on a chassis rail or held insecurely in any way.
@@ElectricClassicCars I think you had shown previously how the weight of the new components is designed not to exceed the existing weight distribution, I have a feeling most mounting points on UK classic cars were a bit "over engineered" anyway, even if BLMC had to add additional anti rattle bars and gearbox restraint wires as builds changed over production runs. Is there a problem with battery mounting compared to petrol fueling inso far as generally for weight "the tank is always full"
Well explained! I’ve converted many many vehicles in the UK and not always followed the rules by the letter in the past ie Porsche engine swaps into T1 Beetles and T2 vans back in the 1980’s!! 😂
Complicated process, appreciate hearing about it. Have to agree with the DVLA approach to this, seems well thought out. My brother in law was an engineer for the Australian version of the DVLA and worked on testing conversions to see if they complied with law. He loved the job.
Very interesting and I've always loved that your conversions are completely bolt-in. I'm in the US and I converted a Ford Ranger. A nice heavy frame rather than a monocoque body certainly gave me a lot more options but the heavy stuff mostly used existing mounting points. The front battery box is attached to the old engine mounts and the motor/gearbox combo is using the original transmission mount. Under the bed in the back I built a frame to hold the battery boxes. It basically rests on top of the frame rails. I did drill some holes to bolt it in place so it won't move. And I did drill a few holes for cable management. I had to trailer it to a DMV inspection station. The state has a checklist they use. As you said, most of the items are safety related including weighing it and putting it on a brake tester (drive on the big metal plate and hit the brakes). And the most important things was for them to verify there was no longer a place to pour fuel so I could be exempt from our biennial emissions tests.
I am in Georgia and I sent in photos and a letter from EV West saying that the car was 100 percent electric. The registration now says that the vehicle is electric.
Thanks. Once I get in there I can determine if it is part of a bolt-on wing structure (which I don't think counts) or part of the main structure. Ugly bracket in the boot then!
Thanks Richard, loved this one. Very interesting. I wonder how many vehicles are on the road that don't comply???? Hmmmm!
Lots. Any car with a roll cage (which means the whole rally industry is working illegally), any van that’s been converted to a camper, any LPG converted car, any classic car that’s had seat belts retro fitted, etc the list is long. 😉👍
Great info, one thing I have also wondered is how a conversion to electric effects insurance? Would a conversion mean insurance would go up or down because of the new power of the target vehicle? Thanks ⭐️
Assume power remains the same, but indeed ins cos will reclassify any risk
I did an electric conversion on my 1966 beetle using parts and the schematics provided by EV-West. I drilled several holes in the sheet metal in the floor pan and a few other places for fastening wires. The state🎉 (Georgia) approve the changing of the fuel type to electric. My car is insured as an electric vehicle but it has never been inspected other than photos.
Thank for all the cool stuff you are doing.
Ron Riley
Nice work!
A very informative video - thanks for this. Nice to know that the modifications are reversible too, if anyone wishes to do so.
I have a stretched Land Rover, modified at Solihull to what later became the 127 spec. It is registered as a 110 pickup because there was no other model designation existing at that time. Presumably a similar situation applies to other pre-production vehicles when a new model is yet to be launched.
I'd be interested in hearing about which UK insurers (if any) are good about insuring a highly-modified car as an electric conversion would be. Insurance always an important concern!
The modified car scene is massive in the UK and plenty of insurance companies to cater for it. 👍
Thanks. I've often wondered. Seeing real examples makes the points beautifully clear.
Great to get not just a clear video re DVLA EV rules and the points system as well as see from comments how various countries (and states in them) adapt to consumer love of classic cars yet wish to future proof them a bit re fuel changes. One thing that it raises is how on the points system does it work when you change the subframe and on that subframe it also has the suspension mounts. Was that classified as a suspension change or only if the suspension items themselves change? Otherwise you would only end up with 7 points (5 for the chassis and 2 for the steering). Hopefully you got the suspension points even when the mount they are on changed. I didnt see any Ferrari gearbox letting you keep the axel points.
once, I wanted to bring back to Italy a motorbike I bought while I was living in the US. So, I went to the local DMV to know if it was possible to register it and any modification I might have to do.
They replied to me that I had to bring the bike in for them to give me an answer.
So, I explained to them that it was the same model sold in Italy, and I wanted to know what to expect before spending thousands to ship the bike.
They replied to me .... that I had to bring the bike in for them to give me an answer.
And, that was pretty much it!
It won't affect you, but the DVLA won't update the fuel type of 2001+ cars. Basically any car that has the emissions on the v5.
They still send the inspector though
And although the car will be registered as electric it will not appear on the V5.
@@alibro7512 wont that effect ULEZ and local authority parking permits and so on ?
@@highpath4776 We don't have ULEZ in NI so it doesn't effect me.
@@alibro7512 You could still take your car to anywhere where there is ULEZ.
@@rkan2 LOL, I'm not sure I have the range to do that. I don't have fast charging yet and the nearest ULEZ zone would be a ferry ride and several hundred miles away. .
Do DVLA charge for the inspection?
Not for a basic inspection but if you radically alter the car then they charge for an IVA test.
A very eye-opening episode! Mahalo, Richard!
Impossible in Malaysia too unless you register the car as a prototype under a company.
Nice, thank you! Although I'm located in the Netherlands, I am interested in the costs involved and time from request to plate so to speak.
Thank you for that😀
This process is much closer to doing modifications to Aircraft than the "wild west" approach in the USA to car mods. We have to do everything in accordance with approved data and it can be a major exercise to do the most basic mods and repairs with a major paper work trail . In aviation we have a saying that when the paperwork weighs the same as the aircraft its ready to fly....
I live in Northern Ireland (still part of the UK but we have a slightly different MOT system here😉) and when I contacted the DVLA to inform them of my EV conversion I was advised to get it MOT'd first, then send in the V5. I then had to take my car to the MOT centre for inspection.
Other than that everything was as Moggy said.
Interesting. Thanks for letting us know about that. Worth noting. 👍
The MOT Centre will have effectively done an IVA on it. They have some very skilled guys in their staff.
@@hughmarcus1No an MOT centre would not have done an IVA, that’s a much more in depth process than an MOT and is carried out at specific test centres. 👍
@@ElectricClassicCars Isnt the point that NI MOT is Govt Run rather than private garages - so it is more like the commercial vehicle COF. testing and plating testing stations in GB
@@hughmarcus1you're right about the guys in the MOT centre but amazingly they were not allowed to do anything except a visual inspection and take photos. These were sent back to the DVLA for them to make the decision remotely. It's bonkers.
I'm in the early stages of planning one, in NZ. Really hoping there's a lil leeway in some parts of the build I have in mind!!
Very timely episode! I just finished upgrading my electric 914 with 6 Tesla battery modules and it's on a ship now from America to my new home in Spain. I've hired a guy who handles car imports into Spain, mostly coming from the UK. Since the car has been converted to electric, he says the car needs to be inspected by his engineer who writes a report, then taken to his favourite inspection station for certification. Fingers crossed! He says the Spanish are particularly interested in headlights and the color and placement of light lenses around the car. I did find out late in the conversion that I need to install a rear-facing fog light - madness!
Good luck with your process! 👏👏👏I am from Spain, and if you are moving your residence to my country, perhaps you will be lucky and succeed in legally registering the car 😁
If you were importing the car as a normal person, it would be almost impossible to do it, bad if you are moving from USA to Spain, things are much easier. Rear fog light is mandatory, but the rest of the things use to be ok
Amazing that people actually want to do this! Genuinely amazed. Your clients clearly are very different from the rest of society. Too much money and guilt about it too.
Very interesting. I believe that for patrimonial cars that people want to keep driving on the roads, conversion is a good idea (tho I'm hearing about planned obsolescence for existing ICE vehicles in Europe with legal age limits for repairs that would send them to the junkyard or static collections. Hope it's not for tomorrow).
Curious if the inspector weighs each corner and checks you've not exceeded the manufactures loading of each axle or shifting the weight bias significantly.
Nope! They don't even check for electrical safety.
I looked into it a bit for France, and they used to make it almost impossible, but I believe they now, or will soon, allow conversions to be done by shops that are qualified by them to do it. I don't know any more details.
There is a tour company giving tours of Paris in concerted 2CVs so it must be doable.
I wish it was more like the US here, cheers DVLA for depriving us of such an interesting element of vehicle culture. Look at all their restomods with improved suspension geometry etc. Like many of our laws, it's totally unenforceable. How many cars do you think have an extra hole somewhere for a sound install, camper conversion etc. If everyone wanted an inspection it would take 100 years and most cars over 10 years old would be on Q plates.
Thank you for the video. In Russia, unfortunately, it is not possible to register a converted electric car.
In Bulgaria too, unfortunately! I was living in England for ~15 years and went back to Bulgaria to do ICE to EV conversions (and photovoltaics). However it turns out that the organisation responsible for the checks (Technotest) don't even have the equipment to do EMC checks and they are not even planning to buy some 😡! So it is better to do the conversion in Romania otherwise you won't be able to make the car road legal. Just to mention that both countries are in the EU, it comes to show how different the legislation from country to country is.
I was interested to hear you suggest that drilling a van floor for a drain in a camper should be reported. I've never seen any TH-cam converter mention that. I have a long-term van conversion ongoing, but I intend to drain my waste tank via a pipe through an open door. I'm terrified of drilling holes through the body!
Thanks for a really useful video.
I was also wondering about that, seen as my Vauxhall Vivaro campervan conversion has the diesel heater under the drivers seat and a large hole for the turret had to be cut out of the floor. But it was my MOT garage that carried out the work as he also converts campervans and if it was an issue he would't be doing these conversions.
A lot of people and companies do these kind of mods every day but they don’t inform the DVLA. If they did then they’d fall fowl of the Radically Altered points system and lose their registration.
@@irishrover63They’re obviously not aware of the rules or choose to ignore them. If you’re unsure whether the modifications are a problem you can contact the DVLA directly via phone or email. 👍
Thanks for the video.. but Spitting feathers ! . Is it still true you don't get a 2nd go? if the inspector declare a fail on an extra hole , the reg is cancelled & you can't weld it up & call him back, pay again . Despite this being a "rebuilt car inspection" which will have had lots of welding already. The IVA route will also ban alot of dash board features on classic cars as too sharp, & does it need expensive battery proving. Is there any hope of the DVLA becoming more relaxed about this?
For America look to Super Fast Matt on youtube conversion of a Jag to tesla , we are talking half the chassis cut away
There is an appeals process should you feel the conclusion of the DVLA inspection process is not correct.
@@ElectricClassicCars Does that Appeal Process allow you to correct the items they failed it on & allow you a 2nd inspection?
Why aren't the subframes considered to be part of the chassis? They are a structural part of the car and if removed from the vehicle will affect the structural integrity of the vehicle? I know that you will put your own subframe in to add stiffness where the engine and subframe were, but surely that's a modification.
Imagine if the whole car was made up of bolted sections, where would the chassis end?
We, my wife and myself *LOVE* this channel.
Hello to you both. ❤️👍
@ElectricClassicCars it does us Yanks any good but, thank you for such a great explanation of the procedure.
Well having been watching Jonny Smith _radically_ alter an Austin Allegro (aka "The Agro") over on The Late Brake Show channel, then I guess we can expect to see a Q plate on that vehicle. I mean, he's literally gone for 0 points. New engine, new trans, new steering, new axles, new suspension, and numerous welds and mods to the monocoque. Funny that I don't recall him discussing any of that though. 🤔
It all depends if you inform the DVLA of the modifications you’ve done to the vehicle. 👍
He wont be attempting to change the category to an electric vehicle though. Probably will fall foul of the mot exemption though
@@marcos3ltrv6As far as I'm aware the "Radically Altered Vehicles" rules on the DVLA site apply to _all_ vehicles that are modified. I see nothing that links it to converting from FF to EV. If the Agro does not have a Q plate, it's going to be illegal to use it on the roads.
Richard, Very useful video as I am doing a conversion at the moment. What would the DVLA view be on, for example, enlarging the current fuel filler hole to accommodate a CCS connector? Thanks
Depends, what’s the car?
2011 Jaguar XK8 (5L V8 aluminium body)@@ElectricClassicCars
@@Classic2EVI wouldn’t advise it, as that’s technically modifying the monocoque.
Great information ❤. I love your workmanship
Just thinking.
Batteries not at front or back or in the passenger compartment leaves very little spare space in most sports cars.
Belgium requires that the original manufacturer certifies the modification. Unlikely they would do such thing. So if you want to modify a vehicle to electric on Belgium, you likely would first register it in germany or the Netherlands and then export it to belgium
Same in Norway 😮💨
That Defender seems to comply with the eight present or upcoming English CAZ Zones, the Scottish CAZ but fails the London ULEZ zone. Is it exempt in London?
Yes. Ulez exempt. 👍
My word, I had this exact thought last night and was trying to find where would be a good video to post it. I’ve missed the chance to put the lottery on tonight 😂
how closely do they look at new holes? kind of hard to find a comparable vehicle like a an old ferrari
Question, the mounting of the cables you make small holes in areas, do they count or what. Thanks very much.
What happens when other/previous work has already contributed to a point reduction. e.g. if you'd done a leaf to coil-over conversion in the past and are there any exceptions where work is done to increase safety, not just roll cage type work but say if you fitted 3-point seatbelts to a classic that previously only had lap belts.,
This is a problem. If you convert a car to electric that previously had work done on it that is deemed a modification to the chassis or monocoque e.g. retrofitting seatbelts onto a classic car that never had seat belts by drilling holes and using spreader plates or welding mounts in, or having a roll cage.
Unfortunate not that easy in Switzerland. But good news, they are on the way to change the rules for more easy registration of classic EV conversions.
Good to hear it will get better. When will that be?
@@ElectricClassicCars when Swill Trains Depart and Arrive late LOL
@@ElectricClassicCars TUV rules(even more strict than the UK) over in Europe they allow you modify the chassis boot floor/spare wheel well to mount the battery box a minimum 200 mm inboard of the rear bumper mounts thus leaving a crash absorbing structure... That allows the battery to be in its own sealed box safely away from passengers and as far away from the passenger cell as possible...
That`s were the DVLA dangerously fails...
Losing points for safety in this case by stopping the relocating of a danger to as far away from occupants as possible.
The brakes system after you change it to regeneration, how do they inspect , authorised that. Very interested 👌
ah yes, me to
Afaik generally the braking requirement will remain the same as what the manufacturer determined to have put in.
@@rkan2 There may be less brake wear if regen , though the retardation force is the same (but some is dissapated as electric charging rather than being all heat)
Though it still does not answer the questions about the DVLA changing the V5 to electric then back to ICE, as discused in several online groups for post 2001 vehicle conversions.
I’m not familiar with the regulations in my home country, Spain. But considering the recent delivery of the beautiful black Land Rover Defender to your client in Barcelona, I was wondering if this Land Rover is going to be road legal in Spain or if its owner is going to have to go through further domestic legal procedures to obtain some sort of permit for Spain.
Thanks in advance.
It’s now road legal in Spain. Maybe we should do an episode on other countries. 👍
I did wonder you made it legal for Sweden. Great video. So yes please do a video how you made your conversion legal for other countries
@@ElectricClassicCars yes please.
@@ianrobins5501 "New regulations are planned to enter into force in autumn 2024." - transportstyrelsen
Is Sweden planning law changes this year for electric car conversions?
Yes, please! It would be great to know more about your conversion process in my country, Spain! 👏👏👏👏
Doesn’t effect most of your conversions, except some recent defenders, but have the DVLA changed the rules on the 2001-2017 cars then. Didn’t think the DVLA allowed cars from that period to be converted at all because the taxation class can’t be changed. London Electric Cars raised it as an issue several years ago
I’m pretty sure these guys have converted some late model Defenders
@@hughmarcus1 that’s why I was asking, they must know. A 2010 converted defender still paying petrol/diesel tax rates would be odd
I believe the situation is you can convert but the fuel type on the V5 doesn't change so you don't get all the benefits of being EV
Yep, 2001 onwards vehicles the DVLA won’t change the fuel type to Electricity, however you are still obliged to inform them of the change. 👍
In Germany it's nearly impossible to convert cars legally tp electric. You would need to take stakes as high as if it would be a complete new car with Crashtests etc...
Not sure why my response is not showing but the above is simply not true. There are clear rules on how to go about it and there are several companies doing this. I have ridden in 3 converted cars and know of a half a dozen more. No crash tests etc. The biggest problem is finding a TÜV engineer that will take on the project and most of them won't... Was der Bauer nicht kennt...
Here in Taiwan prohibits all forms of engine modifications. In addition to engine, transmission and fuel type changes being prohibited, the length and width of the vehicle body also cannot be altered. Hope one day I can legally convert my old Honda into an electric vehicle in Taiwan.
Great job, Richard. Love your work 👍
Does this mean that every rally car (ICE or electric!), for example, should be IVAd or Q-plated? They are heavily modified monocoques, weld in roll cages, modified suspension, altered fuel systems with modified and relocated fuel tanks etc. Surely motorsport rules don't overrule that of the dvla/govt., or have they got some special exemption? In which case, why haven't other vehicles got the same?
Yes. According to the DVLA every rally car should be IVA’d and be on Q plates.
Might seem crazy question but could you glue something to the chassis or would that count as a modification? I mean if Lotus can glue a chassis together why couldnt you glue the mount for an inverter or a small junction box in place?
That would be a question for the DVLA. 😉👍
@@ElectricClassicCars Does the DVLA engineer run or roll the car actually, or they only inspect it at the garage?
Very interesting video, I have often wondered of the feasibility of someone offering an engineered kit to convert a popular car say a modern IC powered Fiat 500 to electric. I completely understand the logic behind re using existing holes because the chassis will have been tested for structural integrity. Taking it as far as not allowing screw fixing for cabling does seem a bit extreme and by all accounts there must be loads of cars that would fail this test, any car that has an aftermarket stereo fitted is likely to have extra holes drilled to mount amps and fix cabling, similarly all those cars that had powerful driving lights added a couple of decades ago, (I might have done that, oops), I think the mounting holes are the least of the regulators problem. :0)
Amazing and professional looking job you guys do here, although I am a little conflicted over swapping out the original and often characterful engine from a classic IC powered car. Given how little use these cars get, surely better to convert older ‘cooking’ models? A standardised kit for popular cars perhaps. But I guess there isn’t the money for this market, which makes it all a bit niche doesn’t it?
Sorry if my comment came across as a bit negative, I really like the work you do. I guess, as some one who worked on the development of regenerative variable speed drives for electric vehicles back in the early 80's I'm more than just a bit frustrated that it has taken so long for the benefits of electric drive to become mainstream.
….so you keep the number plate and chassis number- if the original vehicle was exempt from road tax and MOT due to age, does the electric conversion mean all those processes have to be restarted?
In Australia, the rules with regards to Electric Conversion of vehicles are similar to the rules in the UK. I am not sure if the UK follows a British or European Standard, but in Australia, any Electric Vehicle Conversion must follow NCOP 14. I am also not certain with regards to the Technical Inspection / Approval Process in the UK, and who pays for that to reach completion? In Australia, it isn't cheap, and this Technical Approval Process must be funded by the owner of the newly-converted EV. Also in Australia, following EV Conversion, you are issued with new Registration Plates, and the new Registration Plates must also bear a small blue triangle with the letters "EV" within this triangle. The sole reason for the blue EV triangle, is for the identification of the vehicle, for first responders, such as a Road Accident or vehicle fire. For anyone contemplating an EV Conversion of any Classic Car, my advice is to do some groundwork. The first thing, would be to make contact with your Vehicle Insurer, and explain to them your intentions. This was the first thing that I did, before completing an EV Conversion on my '71 Super Beetle, back in 2019. Hope that this helps.
So you in effect are saying every van in the uk that has ply panels in the side does not meet standards due to holes drilled for self tappers also when a police car has holes drilled for cables and aerials that also does not meet standards .
DVLA rules. Not mine. 👍
I have built an electric cobra in the UK and gone through registration process. as it was effectively a new car (not previously registered ) I had to get it IVA tested, however before it could be IVA tested it needed to be tested by MIRA for compliance with R100.1. This is a simple process, but bloody expensive. However, if you are spending 50-100k on a conversion / restoration / new build then I would say that the price of this option is probably not a deal breaker.
MIRA is very expensive to get r100.01 testing. It’s a shame you can’t post pictures in TH-cam comments as I’d love to see the Cobra. I love Cobras. Do you have a link to it?
@@ElectricClassicCars I have a few posts on Facebook groups , Tesla Conversions and the Zero EV group. Should be in a few magazines soon. Its tesla LDU, 12 tesla modules, petersen gauges, dce epas, Zero EV CCS system. Scratch built on a 2024 plate
That's really interesting. I watch a lot of videos on campervan conversions and I often wonder if the modifications they make are actually legal.
Hey - awsome video - again - I Love your defender - best car ever !!! What abtut the biiig defender you buhlt Witze the three Moterbikes on - was it swedisch - same Jules for them ? Í'm so Interesse hol Thi in Germany works wich the TüV ?!
Another wonderfully informative video, keep them coming.
Thanks, will do!
Can you please confirm - it's not possible to EV-convert any monocoque car that has had bodywork modifications, if you want to retain the original registration?
If the monocoque has been modified and the owner has declared that modification to the DVLA the likelihood is that the car will lose the original registration.
@@ElectricClassicCars - a mini that has its original shell, chassis number and is running on it's original engine, so has never had any modifications declared to the DVLA, but has been de-seamed?
@@jamest4890That would be a question for the DVLA directly. They’re very helpful in providing clarity in such situations. 👍
Very informative, shows you need to do your homework when considering a conversion to electric, best left to the professionals like yourselves.
Very informative and insightful video. Thanks for sharing.
Where is the limit eg does drilling a hole in the roof for a beacon mess things up?
That is something you’d need to seek clarification on from the dvla directly. 👍
No more holes! What a ridiculous rule. I've made an awful lot of holes in my van over the last 25 years, adding battery mounts, moving bits elsewhere in the engine bay, and putting a camper conversion in the back. OK, I'm not changing the fuel, but it never occurred to me in that time that there might be any restrictions on such a thing. Obviously mounting the batts and motors on something sufficiently solid makes sense, but not adding cable and pipe management brackets is silly.
So you leave the Chassis unmodified, so that gives you 5, and I assume you leave the steering assembly unmodified, so you keep 7.
The transmission and engine are obviously modified, so you lose 3 there.
They explicitly state axles, but I assume they are using that to also refer to driveshafts, so that counts as modified and you lose 2.
But, what is classified as non-original suspension? For the Teslarossa, you aren't using the original suspension mounts as you aren't using the original subframe, nor are you using the original or OE-matching coils and dampers as you are using semi active coilovers from raceshocks. So how do you still get the +2 points for original suspension??
I am currently in the planning phase of my own conversion and the rules are so unbelievably vague, and I cannot afford to break any of them as I'm on a rather tight budget, any help would be greatly appreciated :).
Great info!!! Top notch conversions, and car owners must be really happy 👏👏👏😍😍😍
Do they need to get a fire certificate, and a sprinkler system?
No, because we’ve taken out the petrol system and replaced it with the, much less likely to ignite, battery system.
Think thats wishfull thinking @@ElectricClassicCars
Thanks for doing this video. Useful and informative.
Can you still maintain the historic tax class of a classic car after electric conversion?
No. Any classic car that has had any modifications will lose its historic tax class. But obviously when it’s electric the tax is still zero £s.
Very helpful and informative video!! Well done ECC!!
Glad it was helpful!
As the fuel classification is changed to EV, is the VED also changed to £0 / year like an EV built from new..? 🤔
Yes. 👍
So, when you have international customers, like the Swedish one, is that converted according to the rules of that country or is it a private import back and fourth somehow and British rules apply?
It’s according to Swedish regulations. 👍
@@ElectricClassicCars Good, then you know them. Any chance you'll create a kit for swapping out the engine of old Volvos? 🙂
Very well explained cheers guys
Our pleasure!
Fantastic explanation. Nailed it! 💯⚡️🔨
Is it a big deal to not be able to keep the original registration number and have to go for an IVA test? The point system seems very restrictive. Many classic cars have outdated components to begin with and would best be upgraded to handle the extra torque/HP.
Great episode thanks for the information
I'm an international immigrant viewer. I went with the much simpler route of just buying a new EV so I'm unfortunately unsure how that would work. I've never seen an EV converted vehicle out here. I am curious how to make my electric scooter lighter as handling the current weight makes my muscles sore if I ride it any lengthy distance
is there not a year limit to have a vehicle changed it’s V5 to electric? So a 2000 Passat could not be registered electric 🤔
I believe the 2000 Passat should be fine but anything after 2001 the DVLA can not change the fuel type to electric on their system for some reason. You still need to inform them though. 👍
Very informative. Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
At least the DVLA are using independent inspectors who actually know about vehicles. The DVLAs own 'trained vehicle inspectors' know almost nothing. On more than one occasion, I've had to point out that the long number on the frame of an older Italian motorcycle, prefixed OGM or DMG, is the type approval number for the model. For decades they've been getting this wrong and occasionally wondering why they have so many duplicate frame numbers, but not actually doing anything to fix the situation.
Thanks for teaching!
My pleasure!
What voltage are the orange cables carrying?
Anyone?
Interesting information. It’s obvious that the cars must be save. Can you drive a converted car into a country where the regulations are different from the country where It is build?
By the way, the Ferrari V12 looks so much better than the Tesla motor.
Yes. You can drive them in other countries. 👍
This is all very interesting. Thanks for doing this.
Could somebody please explain the way the British use the word "engineer" when talking about cars. In the United States we think of an engineer as someone who has spent 4 years in college and has earned a bachelor's degree. The impression I get is that when the British refer to an "engineer" they are referring to an auto repair specialist of some sort. I have the impression that this sort of engineer is something beyond the average mechanic but I definitely don't understand the details.
I think the British have been speaking English longer than any other country so probably have the right to claim the correct usage of the language.
In this case the person involved will probably have some form of degree in mechanical engineering, therefore an engineer.
An auto engineer has done a recognised college qualification involving doing the materials and maths. This will be an advanced Tech course like a HND or an actual Degree. They will also have probably qualified as a welder and or MOT/SVA inspector.
That said if you have decades of practical experience in producing modified vehicles and are fitting quality aftermarket components then there is still the competition vehicles inspections and engineers inspection and report. That would go to an MOT inspector or DVLA and your insurance company.
There remains the idiots that lower their suspension and fit big wheels, exhausts and turbos that blow off just going down the road and tyre sizes that cause problems.. as well as rip the underside off and damage tyres and rims because of speed control humps..aka sleeping policemen 😂 or the god awful state of the roads with water filled pot holes that claim countless cars m/cycles and bicycles daily. 😬 Even if your driving a Landrover.
In English English to engineer is also a verb. Designing and creating something technical is to engineer it and so the person doing it is an engineer. Anyone can be an engineer. Do you think George Stephenson, Isombard Kingdom Brunel and Thomas Telford had degrees from college? And for me just having a degree from college doesn’t necessarily make you an engineer even if you did engineering. You actual to have have engineered something. That can be software engineering, electronic engineering, mechanical engineering, civic engineering, bio engineering and so on. So yes, what’s being done here is very very much engineering.
@@alibro7512we speak a hodgepodge of imported languages, English is really just a mix of French and Dutch-German with a few modern additions from languages urdu. You could probably claim Americans speak a purer version of English as theirs hasnt evolved much since C17; where as British-English is constantly evolving. Engineer in this context is the construction process, rather than the person although a technical skill set is needed wasting years at university for a piece of paper saying you showed up to class occasionally isn’t required in Britain. Many of Britain’s most famous engineers will have been trained through an apprenticeship approach.
@@alibro7512 Engineer is of FRENCH origin, and Latin (Italian) before that , so your argument is of no use
Brake regen effect any laws?
No.
@@ElectricClassicCarsif the regen is set to decelerate you quite firmly when you let off the accelerator, does it turn on the brake lights? I have a car (ICE) with hill descent mode and that puts on the brake lights.
If you’re handy with a wrench, the little yellow Fiat 500 in “Mission Impossible Dead Reckoning” is worth a look…
I should add that if in your european country you can't register your converted classic you can always register it trough the german authority
I would like to know a little more, please explain.
@@nickwagner9339 I don't have ALL the info, but I can tell you what I know based on some friends that did it.
In Italy you can't modify anything on cars nor register cars that shouldn't be sold here. SO we register them in Germany, do the TUV safety test for the registration there, then with all the correct German paperwork they're imported in Italy.