I appreciate the interview, but would have been grateful to hear more of Ruth's responses. I would have been happy to wait for her to pause and think before responding.
This is incredible! Just hearing your daughters side of the story with her experience with unschooling, I had to giggle a little bit with the interrogation comment and how people just quiz her upon finding out she was home schooled. I feel like I get that from other parents A LOT right now when I say I am home schooling my kids so I can totally relate!
Thank you so much for this video. I was born in the ‘60s, when you had to be nonverbal and constantly bang your head against a wall to be diagnosed autistic. I wasn’t diagnosed till age 59. I am so thrilled to hear about Ruth, who sounds so much like me in her hyperlexia and self-teaching, growing up WITHOUT all the public-school one-size-fits-all ordeal. I sure wish I could have been unschooled! Ruth, you are amazing, and obviously brilliant. Your unique viewpoint and skills is going to change the world, one family at a time!
Thank you for this. I would have greatly benefited from this schooling approach. I'm autistic as well and tried dropping out of second grade (lol, I know) and then successfully left high school at 16 to do my own learning. Went on to graduate college just fine. Public school isn't right for everyone.
I really enjoyed your daughters perspective about unschooling. I have been homeschooling my 7 year old. I have not actually ventured into unschooling and kind of feel as though my son would not learn anything if he had a choice. Did you feel that way when they were younger? I have never worried about socializing with my socail butterfly, he talks to almost everyone.
Hooray! Another unschooler in the wild, super successful because they are following their own curiosities. Our daughter, Riona, has a lot in common with your Ruth. Listening to this video, i could be having the same convo with my daughter. She's 20 and graduating college with honors this week.
I love these types of follow-ups. My big question for Ruth (and any of your children) was what are interests and/or opportunities over the years they each have had the freedom to explore. I would assume Ruth would say art based on other videos, but as I don't know her, maybe not. Then the process you've used, as the parent, to observe and foster those interests? For instance, do you wait until your kids ask to do something before looking up opportunities to support, or is it more you notice things and provide opportunities, especially in the younger years (where I'm at in my journey with my kids now) and how it's changed as they've grown. I imagine it's a but of both but what does that look like for you?
I asked her. She said "Art for many hours every day, reading whatever books I wanted. Ancient Egypt. Ducks and chickens. Beekeeping. Anime. Mystery and Thriller podcasts. Volunteering with the elderly. Art club with other unschoolers."
I had planned to homeschool my daughter from the start, because of my own public school trauma. As I began to research home schooling I was attracted to the flexibility of unschooling. My daughter has a circadian sleep disorder and is very dyslexic. School became a non starter with that set of conditions. It wasn't the dyslexia that made school impossible, but the sleep disorder was a deal killer. Before melatonin, she could not sleep until 8am, then slept until some noise woke her up, often between 10am and 3pm. Once she was put on melatonin, at 8, she could get to sleep between 3-4 am and often stayed asleep until around 11am. Though still a difficult condition to manage, at least consistent sleep happened, which made things like reading attainable.
@@judeross3875 In the US Melatonin is often sold as a supplement, but some Doctors will recommend it. It was a way better than putting an 8 year old on Ambien, like some other doctors suggest.
@@permiebird937 Are you sure he needs any medication at all? Is he better on it do you think? Not sure what symptoms he may have that the doctor thinks need medicating. From what I have noticed that concerns me in the last few years is the rush to put small children on medication without trying other options first. It may just be a cultural thing I don't live in the US. I will look the supplement up as I have never heard of it xx
@@judeross3875 What would you do if your child could not get to sleep until 8 am because of a circadian rhythm sleep disorder? She could not physically fall asleep until morning, and was a light sleeper that just the background noise of the neighborhood would wake her up in a couple of hours. She was literally becoming suicidal at 8 years old because of lack of sleep. The MD suggested Ambien a controversial serious drug for adults, but our ND suggested Melatonin, an over the counter supplement, which is gentle, much safer, and worked very effectively to help my daughter get more and better sleep. She could finally get to sleep well before dawn, and stay asleep until mid-morning which put her at 7-8 hours of sleep with some usable afternoon. It gave both of us our lives back from the serious sleep disorder she suffers from.
@@permiebird937 Thank you for explaining. You have helped me understand. Sounds much better. Wish you all the best. The internet can be a funny place when you not talking to someone in"real life" apologies.
Thank you for this. I’ve been preparing my partner, in-laws, family about my decision to unschool my children. Your videos on unschooling are a wonderful resource.
I always unschooled my kids...but recently I felt the need to do some homeschooling. My 14 year old always was unschooled and he is doing pretty well. But he is gifted and he always learned well on his own. By the time he was 1 or so he could count to 20 or more. He was reading chapter books at 3..etc. But my youngest, 9, she had troubles counting little numbers, and even recognizing numbers and doesn't know how to read. So I started teaching her, within a few days she is spelling 3 letter words. Not bad. Maybe she would have eventually figured it out.. I thought like my son they will pick it up on their own. Not the case for my youngest...
Congratulations on your 4.0, Ruth! 👏 So appreciate your perspective on unschooling v traditional schooling. My 29 year old son’s experience of learning to read mirrors yours. I did not know that being hyperlexic can be linked to neurodiversity.
Oh, how I wish I could have unschooled my kids! Wouldn’t have been allowed to in Norway, though. I homeschooled my (not yet diagnosed) aspie middle girl on two occations when school got to be too much, but my own cronic fatigue makes it impossible after just a few months. Here’s hoping that junior high with special ed will be ok in the fall. My younger daughter struggles with fatigue as well and school is hard! Love hearing about unschooling!
Thanks for the excellent and informative video. We have just decided to homeschool our 5 year old after trying conventional schooling for a term. We will be having some conventional lessons structure to start but want our child to essentially be allowed to lead by the interest his shows in whatever subjects (currently Greeks and Egyptians!). Kinda exciting for us, but at the same time a little daunting.
This unschooling concept is pretty cool if you ask me and definitely jives with my experience of best learning. School did help a bit with being exposed to a bunch of stuff but that is something I think can be achieved quite easily outside a school environment. My chief complaint with school is the requirements to do a bunch of homework to “learn” stuff for me I never had to do much to learn things other than just pay attention in class and maybe do a few problems here and there. In fact I did the same if not better after switching to BC calculus from AB calculus which covers twice the material in the same amount of time but the difference was my BC calc teacher gave us recommended problems not required problems like my AB teacher I remember being so stressed in that class having to do something like 50 problems every night just to keep my grades up and then was able to focus on learning the more efficient way for me in the more advanced class without the homework requirement. In fact my buddy and I who both switched ended up helping our friends with their homework from the other class because we already learned it weeks earlier and mastered it while they were still struggling with the way they were being taught. For me learning certainly does come naturally and almost of what I know I learned because I was interested in it and did what I call going down the rabbit hole. Basically I would start out with a question on something that interested me and research that then when I encountered something I didn’t quite understand or that interested me I would research that and by the end of the day I’d have about 400 tabs open and my computer crashing because I would just keep going and then go back to something before to finish learning that and then find something else and so on. I mean there is so much out there all at your finger tips these days. You can learn anything. I learned to fix almost everything on my last car just from watching TH-cam and then doing it when something broke and now I have that much more understanding of how a car works that I can apply to my current car or helping someone else out. I’m doing that with learning to grow plants and foraging right now when I see something cool I try to figure out what it is and what uses it might have or it’s function in the ecosystem. I learned how to make soap from campfire ashes from researching what I could do with the left over ashes. And that I can make wood stain from black walnut husks. And how to make jams and jellies and sauces and can them. And how to make diesel from oil and methanol and lye which as it turns out there are ways to obtain the methanol and lye from wood and oil you can press from all sorts of seeds and nuts and even from certain types of algae so you could in effect grow all of your own diesel fuel to run your truck which is pretty darn cool. There is so much you can learn just from reading and going places and searching the internet and it’s all so connected that once you start it can be hard to stop learning something new honestly and finding the next thing and then you learn what you need to in order to do the next like learning the chemistry of the biodiesel and how to get each reactant from the environment you have to learn how to purify those things and extract them in all sorts of ways.
As someone who experienced a mix of public schooling, homeschooling, and educational neglect in the guise of homeschooling--and who is likely to unschool my own kids when the time comes--I feel like this interview leaves more questions unanswered than it answers. Lots of kids do not teach themselves to read at age 2 or do well in college. I suspect Ruth's positive outcomes may have a lot to do with having parents who were able to model good executive function skills in a variety of contexts, and that parents who struggle on this front may have particular difficulty with unschooling. Curious for anyone's thoughts on this. :)
I agree that most people do not teach themselves to learn to read an early age. Two of my children have dyslexia, and they needed a lot of support learning how to read and also lots of technology to help learning be more accessible for them. My intent wasn’t to have a comprehensive understanding of Unschooling. That’s the thing about Unschooling is that it looks different for each individual child.
I'll also say I have excellent executive functioning, but my husband will be the first to admit, he does not (#autism). But I think that gives me credit where it is not due. I didn't start out wanting to unschool. I started out being interested in Charlotte Mason (in retrospect, ugh), and Waldorf. Ruth made it VERY clear from a young age that wasn't going to work for her, so I had to adjust rapidly and follow her lead. Each of my kids has approached their learning in a unique way that reflects their own interests and personalities. Bea has taken loads of formal classes. Hal is starting community college at 15 years old this fall. He prefers audiobooks and podcasts to written books. George taught himself to read very early but learns a lot from documentaries on youtube and his dad reading to him. I'm so sorry you experienced educational neglect - I think that more common in homeschooling circles than folks care to accept. The same way I've seen parents "unparenting" and calling it unschooling...being uninvolved in your kids' lives and learning is not unschooling, and I don't think it should be presented as legit unschooling. As far as Ruth learning to read super early - it had its own challenges. She had no patience for "age appropriate" books and she wanted to read what she wanted to read. At age 5-6, I couldn't get her to do much of anything except draw half the day, and read the other half. She very much liked to keep to herself and read and draw to the exclusion of literally everything else (we didn't realize at the time she was on the spectrum and this kind of intense focus and hyperfixation was normal for her). I don't know if that helps but...I wonder if Bea (who is also an adult now...I don't generally interview my minor kids and try to show them only briefly on camera), might like to talk about her experience as well because as a dyslexic unschooler, and as a kid who has wanted to be a lawyer since she was 7 and has taken EVERY class on Supreme Court case history, legal theory, etc and competed in Mock Trial since age 13...her educational needs and choices look NOTHING like her sister's.
@@ParkrosePermaculture For sure! And I know you've already put out a lot of other unschooling content that provides a more rounded, complex, and detailed picture. I guess my basic curiosity is--you've shown a case in which unschooling hs lead to really great outcomes here. And I'm really interested in when unschooling does and doesn't work, just as I'm really interested in when other educational formats do and don't work. I think this video is operating at the level of, "hey folks, radical approaches to education can be better sometimes! Here is one human case study." Which I fully support and find necessary. And also, I think that to build the movements we need, understanding the differences between unschooling and educational neglect--and understanding the difference between home and community environments that can successfully support unschooling vs. ones that can't--are important. Way beyond the scope of one short interview, but important and interesting. And at least tangentially related. XD
@@ParkrosePermaculture I would absolutley love to see a survey discussion or a statistical breakdown of how unschooling has played out for your kids and other kids in your community, which includes places where folks have struggled and parents and community members have problem solved in those cases. :)
are you familiar with yes-i-can-write.blogspot.com ? They talked a lot about adult unschoolers. I know perhaps 20-ish adult unschoolers who have gone on to do a diversity of things from college and grad school to trade school to being "nonstarters" living in their parents basement (or, I would argue, developing on their own timeline, not the culture's expectations). I don't really know if that data on outcomes for unschoolers has been quantified, but if you find any, I'd love to see it!! or maybe that's someone's Sociology/Ed D thesis if it's not been studied yet? I am always of two minds about homeschooling - it's been really good for my kids to be unschooled and I know they would have struggled in public school...but I also know kids are neglected in some homeschooling families, and homeschoolers can more easily hide abuse. My husband is a public school teacher. He would be the first to admit there are lots of problems with public school, but for most families, it is the system they must engage with and kids there need and deserve the best educational opportunities possible. In our experience, a lot of folks come to unschooling - specifically secular unschooling - because their kids had very real trauma in public school - often centered around special ed or behavioral issues. They wanted more compassion and flexibility for their kids - recognizing the system doesn't do well in supporting kids who are outliers from the middle. And a lot of homeschoolers we know came to "School of The Dining Room Table" out of a fear of indoctrination and a desire for a religious and controlled learning environment. Those are two HUGELY different groups who often get lumped in together when folks talk about problems with homeschooling...but the potential risks for kids in either group are hugely different. And I don't personally know how much in-depth comparison has been done between homeschool philosophies and risks for educational neglect. Much less to control for the KINDS of kids that are unschooled - are they more likely to be neurodivergent and that's why their parents came to unschooling? That was definitely the case for us.
One more reason I love your channel! Well stated, Ruth! My homeschooled kids enjoyed similar experiences as yours! Their social circle is broad, their interests fanned, their reasoning skills honed. Those of my kids who have experienced college have consistently been on the honor roll. Homeschooling was a great fit for our family!
When my son was 5 , I must confess, I did ask cringy, direct questions of homeschoolers I ran into in weird places. I skipped the preamble of my son was reading at first grade level at 4 and K seemed to be emotional torture for him and jumped to what I was wrestling with. I then quizzed PS kids about states, some math and found 5th graders were not able to do what 5yo was. I was bullied into leaving him in "system" for he certainly didn't learn anything, until he was 8 and clinically depressed for 2 yrs. Even at 18 he had deep test anxiety from those horrid years but easily passed GED. How did Ruth decide to go to college? My son is also aspie and refused to "jump the hoops", even showing him what I thought would be attractive to him... He refused. So he speaks Mandarin, has driven trucks cross country, worked in warehouses where boss didn't appreciate flow improvement, and does calculations in his head that he can't tell you if they are algebra or geometry or calculus involving %, distance, weight or volts. He used to like to spend time with geeks until he discovered the bias against blue collar work. What are your professional goals?
She really wants to work for the Forest Service or USGS (I think watching Oregon Field Guide a LOT as a kid sparked this passion) and knew she'd need at bachelors - at least - in order to get to where she wants to go. She says, "This is a gift I am giving Future Ruth." when some classes are not particularly fun. She got her GED and lives at home while going to school - although this summer she has an internship at PSU's Climate Lab and will be living in their dorms, so that will be a new experience for her. Oh, she says to say she also really loves taking German and is still deciding on whether to double major in German and Fish&Wildlife or just the latter but keep taking German classes.
Thank you! Loved the video!! We mainly unschool and I have been starting to feel the pressure to start regular stricter curriculum type schooling because I’m starting to worry my boys (9 and 13) aren’t learning enough. Or “should” know more by now. How can I pull back from that doubt in my head? How did Ruth learn what she needed to start college? Did she just decide to learn while she found things that interested her? Did she find out what was on the entry exam and study that? When she was younger, did you encourage her to read educational materials? My sons are 13 and 9 and I’m starting to worry my oldest at home will resent me. He has been asking me to teach him recently. I feel like his request is reason enough to start curriculum. Or do I just direct him to do it himself by reading about things that he wants to learn and skip actual curriculum?
I kind of did the unschooling thing backwards. I went to public school through jr college. Then, when I transferred to a 4 year college, I chose to be in a program called New College. The first two years, which I had already completed, were a little more structured in that each semester a particular aspect of general education was emphasized. The second 2 years, which I participated in were totally free choice. Professors would offer seminars on a particular subject or you could contract with a professor on an independent project. I was mostly interested in elementary school teaching and creative writing, so I contracted with professors to visit and report on several alternative elementary schools in the SF Bay area, was the editor of a creative writing magazine, read about a couple hundred children's books and wrote one, created an organic vegetarian sandwich business at the school, among other things. People used to ask me what was I going to be able to do with such an education. I actually found that it gave me entrance to all kinds of fields because employers would not know about what a Special Major in the Liberal Arts meant and I would have to explain what it meant for me. Since I was required to make decisions about what I wanted to study, create a plan, get agreement on the project and be evaluated, most employers recognized that it wasn't especially relevant what my projects were but that I had learned to work on my own, take initiative, get agreement and negotiate with my professors....exactly the skills I would be using in most non-technical jobs.
I think ppl interrogate homeschoolers because they want to confirm that all they stress they went through putting theur kids in public school was worth it. I hate the morning rush and the way the structure and schedule runs our lives!
Haha I was totally attacked by mosquitos in bed last night and am in the midst of huge histamine reaction, so I can empathise there! This was really interesting, thanks. My question would be - do all your children equally enjoy unschooling? I have two, and because we are English speaking migrants based in Italy, I felt it was important for my kids to go to public school so that they speak Italian well, and also feel culturally more Italian (although with a pagan, vegetarian permaculture mother, I guess they'll never fit in totally!). My daughter is super extrovert and social, so I feel like she would really miss the social side of school, but my son is introverted and in many ways I feel homeschool of some kind would suit him better. But he is a child of obsessions, and whereas sometimes it's something like animals or dinosaurs, that seems (to me) more educational...but then he goes through phases where he is obsessed with the world of Cars/Lightning McQueen racers. With unschooling, do you just let them go through these phases? Or do you nudge them to do more productive things or maybe ban tv?
Though a bit disrespectful, I think that the schooling parents are curious about Unschooling and that’s why they ask questions. Tbh I think it’s what we all want.
This is awesome. I suspect it may be a lot different for her as a person with autism.. unschooling may be phenomenal for her.. school may be easier for her.. etc.. but thanks for the video
Awe Ruth. The autism piece makes so much sense. Is that why you, Angela, chose to unschool in the first place? Did it start with Ruth? I am almost 60. A diagnosed ADHD, who now identifies as autistic. The ADD criteria never did fully fit. I found Ruth's early reading experience enlightening. I started reading by three, without really being taught, and entered elementary school asking them why the books were so repetitive and didn't make sense Lol.
Was it difficult for Ruth to attend college and have to sit down at a desk and have that typical school structure after being homeschooled her entire life?
I think this video is reinforcing the benefits of unschooling. I heard her say homeschooling also. I would ask you to consider the benefit to our society of teachers who have earned degrees to teach kids and are passionate about learning. Also consider the kids who benefit from public schooling because they do not have the support at home due to many different variables. For some kids school is a place to feel safe, have food, have shelter, have friends and have support. Ask yourself if there is any benefit of one way of learning verses another. Homeschooling is not the best option for everyone. And by the way Ruth is attending a college, part of the public education system. 😉
the school structure was not right for me at all. i’m autistic+adhd. i went to an independent private school prek-8th and public high school, and things just progressively got worse for me. i did not receive any kind of help until i had already given up, and eventually figured out how to test my way out of high school a year early. my pattern recognition skills pretty much carried me (except for in math, dyscalculia) school is so restrictive. and while i’m grateful for my having access to education, there is so much unnecessary filler information given to you to just spit back out and forget, and there is so much important information being left out. i hate how education is presented as a chore and is forced upon you. as an undiagnosed neurodivergent child, it made me feel like my autonomy was being violated. it made enjoying learning, trying, practicing, patiently working, failing and redoing, and accepting constructive criticism all much more difficult for me. and i don’t know if i’ll ever be able to attend college because of what i experienced with school
Okay so this girl is a genius but not all children will be so the children that are not naturally gifted enough to learn this stuff are going to end up bad off in the long run
The fact that she said “there isn’t much catching up I’ve needed to do in college” implying there was some catching up she had to participate in. And then contradicted herself with her next several statements. And if you put your kid in a liberal arts public school they’ll be exposed to things college kids haven’t explored. Example in my public HS we discussed existentialism. Seems really snooty and pretentious towards those who went a traditional public school route and thrived just as much (if not better) GPA-wise as her.
Good girl Ruth, squeaky voice and all. Angela you did an excellent and wonderful job raising your children. I wish my grand children were like you, they are nothing but a disappointment.
@@ParkrosePermaculture I never said she didn't want to go, or that she doesn't have her own mind. It's just weird to invest so much time into homeschooling/unschooling, only to go to a government indoctrination camp in the end.
Very loaded words you're choosing. "Government indoctrination camp"? Where did you learn that propaganda? I just asked her what she thought about that phrase and she said, "That has not even remotely been my experience. Indoctrinating me to use Z-score tables and calculate confidence intervals?! LOL." For the career she wants, she needs a Bachelors degree, and probably a Masters. She knows where she wants to go in life and is taking the necessary steps to get there.
@@ParkrosePermaculture The funny thing about brainwashed people is that they don't know they are brainwashed. You can learn those things without government schools. You don't go to college for education. You go because of peer pressure to fit into society and make more money than people who don't go. That is it. Women shouldn't be career focused anyways. If you think institutions that teach everything came from a dot that exploded 13.7 billion years ago, and magically evolved into everything isn't brainwashing, then sorry. You're the ones drowning in modernist propaganda.
I un-schooled my daughter until she went to college. She graduated top of her class of 300. She earned many awards while there also. She just finished her Masters Degree and has a good paying job. She was super active in Girl Scouts, 4-h, dance, martial arts and other things. She currently writes grants that can be for millions of dollars. Homeschooling and unschooling are not right for everyone. It is right for some though. I am proud of your daughter for doing so well in school and for knowing what she wants. Good for her and good for you Mom
I appreciate the interview, but would have been grateful to hear more of Ruth's responses. I would have been happy to wait for her to pause and think before responding.
This is incredible! Just hearing your daughters side of the story with her experience with unschooling, I had to giggle a little bit with the interrogation comment and how people just quiz her upon finding out she was home schooled. I feel like I get that from other parents A LOT right now when I say I am home schooling my kids so I can totally relate!
Thank you so much for this video. I was born in the ‘60s, when you had to be nonverbal and constantly bang your head against a wall to be diagnosed autistic. I wasn’t diagnosed till age 59. I am so thrilled to hear about Ruth, who sounds so much like me in her hyperlexia and self-teaching, growing up WITHOUT all the public-school one-size-fits-all ordeal. I sure wish I could have been unschooled! Ruth, you are amazing, and obviously brilliant. Your unique viewpoint and skills is going to change the world, one family at a time!
Thank you for this. I would have greatly benefited from this schooling approach. I'm autistic as well and tried dropping out of second grade (lol, I know) and then successfully left high school at 16 to do my own learning. Went on to graduate college just fine. Public school isn't right for everyone.
I really enjoyed your daughters perspective about unschooling. I have been homeschooling my 7 year old. I have not actually ventured into unschooling and kind of feel as though my son would not learn anything if he had a choice. Did you feel that way when they were younger? I have never worried about socializing with my socail butterfly, he talks to almost everyone.
Hooray! Another unschooler in the wild, super successful because they are following their own curiosities.
Our daughter, Riona, has a lot in common with your Ruth. Listening to this video, i could be having the same convo with my daughter. She's 20 and graduating college with honors this week.
I love these types of follow-ups. My big question for Ruth (and any of your children) was what are interests and/or opportunities over the years they each have had the freedom to explore. I would assume Ruth would say art based on other videos, but as I don't know her, maybe not. Then the process you've used, as the parent, to observe and foster those interests? For instance, do you wait until your kids ask to do something before looking up opportunities to support, or is it more you notice things and provide opportunities, especially in the younger years (where I'm at in my journey with my kids now) and how it's changed as they've grown. I imagine it's a but of both but what does that look like for you?
I asked her. She said "Art for many hours every day, reading whatever books I wanted. Ancient Egypt. Ducks and chickens. Beekeeping. Anime. Mystery and Thriller podcasts. Volunteering with the elderly. Art club with other unschoolers."
I had planned to homeschool my daughter from the start, because of my own public school trauma.
As I began to research home schooling I was attracted to the flexibility of unschooling. My daughter has a circadian sleep disorder and is very dyslexic. School became a non starter with that set of conditions. It wasn't the dyslexia that made school impossible, but the sleep disorder was a deal killer. Before melatonin, she could not sleep until 8am, then slept until some noise woke her up, often between 10am and 3pm. Once she was put on melatonin, at 8, she could get to sleep between 3-4 am and often stayed asleep until around 11am. Though still a difficult condition to manage, at least consistent sleep happened, which made things like reading attainable.
Is melatonin a medication? I thought it was a natural hormone. Just curious.
@@judeross3875 In the US Melatonin is often sold as a supplement, but some Doctors will recommend it. It was a way better than putting an 8 year old on Ambien, like some other doctors suggest.
@@permiebird937 Are you sure he needs any medication at all? Is he better on it do you think? Not sure what symptoms he may have that the doctor thinks need medicating. From what I have noticed that concerns me in the last few years is the rush to put small children on medication without trying other options first. It may just be a cultural thing I don't live in the US. I will look the supplement up as I have never heard of it xx
@@judeross3875 What would you do if your child could not get to sleep until 8 am because of a circadian rhythm sleep disorder? She could not physically fall asleep until morning, and was a light sleeper that just the background noise of the neighborhood would wake her up in a couple of hours. She was literally becoming suicidal at 8 years old because of lack of sleep. The MD suggested Ambien a controversial serious drug for adults, but our ND suggested Melatonin, an over the counter supplement, which is gentle, much safer, and worked very effectively to help my daughter get more and better sleep. She could finally get to sleep well before dawn, and stay asleep until mid-morning which put her at 7-8 hours of sleep with some usable afternoon. It gave both of us our lives back from the serious sleep disorder she suffers from.
@@permiebird937 Thank you for explaining. You have helped me understand. Sounds much better. Wish you all the best. The internet can be a funny place when you not talking to someone in"real life" apologies.
Thank you for this. I’ve been preparing my partner, in-laws, family about my decision to unschool my children. Your videos on unschooling are a wonderful resource.
excellent, all of you
I always unschooled my kids...but recently I felt the need to do some homeschooling. My 14 year old always was unschooled and he is doing pretty well. But he is gifted and he always learned well on his own. By the time he was 1 or so he could count to 20 or more. He was reading chapter books at 3..etc. But my youngest, 9, she had troubles counting little numbers, and even recognizing numbers and doesn't know how to read. So I started teaching her, within a few days she is spelling 3 letter words. Not bad. Maybe she would have eventually figured it out.. I thought like my son they will pick it up on their own. Not the case for my youngest...
I’m pregnant and this video made me cry haha oh man! Thankyou for this. I’m going to subscribe!
Thank you! I think that most people in the world are unschooled. They learn from community what they need to learn when they need it. 🙂
Awesome. It’s really great to hear experiences from both parent and unschooler. Agree with all the experiences we are in this season right now
Congratulations on your 4.0, Ruth! 👏
So appreciate your perspective on unschooling v traditional schooling. My 29 year old son’s experience of learning to read mirrors yours. I did not know that being hyperlexic can be linked to neurodiversity.
Oh, how I wish I could have unschooled my kids! Wouldn’t have been allowed to in Norway, though. I homeschooled my (not yet diagnosed) aspie middle girl on two occations when school got to be too much, but my own cronic fatigue makes it impossible after just a few months. Here’s hoping that junior high with special ed will be ok in the fall. My younger daughter struggles with fatigue as well and school is hard! Love hearing about unschooling!
Thanks for the excellent and informative video. We have just decided to homeschool our 5 year old after trying conventional schooling for a term. We will be having some conventional lessons structure to start but want our child to essentially be allowed to lead by the interest his shows in whatever subjects (currently Greeks and Egyptians!). Kinda exciting for us, but at the same time a little daunting.
This unschooling concept is pretty cool if you ask me and definitely jives with my experience of best learning. School did help a bit with being exposed to a bunch of stuff but that is something I think can be achieved quite easily outside a school environment. My chief complaint with school is the requirements to do a bunch of homework to “learn” stuff for me I never had to do much to learn things other than just pay attention in class and maybe do a few problems here and there. In fact I did the same if not better after switching to BC calculus from AB calculus which covers twice the material in the same amount of time but the difference was my BC calc teacher gave us recommended problems not required problems like my AB teacher I remember being so stressed in that class having to do something like 50 problems every night just to keep my grades up and then was able to focus on learning the more efficient way for me in the more advanced class without the homework requirement. In fact my buddy and I who both switched ended up helping our friends with their homework from the other class because we already learned it weeks earlier and mastered it while they were still struggling with the way they were being taught. For me learning certainly does come naturally and almost of what I know I learned because I was interested in it and did what I call going down the rabbit hole. Basically I would start out with a question on something that interested me and research that then when I encountered something I didn’t quite understand or that interested me I would research that and by the end of the day I’d have about 400 tabs open and my computer crashing because I would just keep going and then go back to something before to finish learning that and then find something else and so on. I mean there is so much out there all at your finger tips these days. You can learn anything. I learned to fix almost everything on my last car just from watching TH-cam and then doing it when something broke and now I have that much more understanding of how a car works that I can apply to my current car or helping someone else out. I’m doing that with learning to grow plants and foraging right now when I see something cool I try to figure out what it is and what uses it might have or it’s function in the ecosystem. I learned how to make soap from campfire ashes from researching what I could do with the left over ashes. And that I can make wood stain from black walnut husks. And how to make jams and jellies and sauces and can them. And how to make diesel from oil and methanol and lye which as it turns out there are ways to obtain the methanol and lye from wood and oil you can press from all sorts of seeds and nuts and even from certain types of algae so you could in effect grow all of your own diesel fuel to run your truck which is pretty darn cool. There is so much you can learn just from reading and going places and searching the internet and it’s all so connected that once you start it can be hard to stop learning something new honestly and finding the next thing and then you learn what you need to in order to do the next like learning the chemistry of the biodiesel and how to get each reactant from the environment you have to learn how to purify those things and extract them in all sorts of ways.
As someone who experienced a mix of public schooling, homeschooling, and educational neglect in the guise of homeschooling--and who is likely to unschool my own kids when the time comes--I feel like this interview leaves more questions unanswered than it answers. Lots of kids do not teach themselves to read at age 2 or do well in college.
I suspect Ruth's positive outcomes may have a lot to do with having parents who were able to model good executive function skills in a variety of contexts, and that parents who struggle on this front may have particular difficulty with unschooling. Curious for anyone's thoughts on this. :)
I agree that most people do not teach themselves to learn to read an early age. Two of my children have dyslexia, and they needed a lot of support learning how to read and also lots of technology to help learning be more accessible for them.
My intent wasn’t to have a comprehensive understanding of Unschooling. That’s the thing about Unschooling is that it looks different for each individual child.
I'll also say I have excellent executive functioning, but my husband will be the first to admit, he does not (#autism). But I think that gives me credit where it is not due. I didn't start out wanting to unschool. I started out being interested in Charlotte Mason (in retrospect, ugh), and Waldorf. Ruth made it VERY clear from a young age that wasn't going to work for her, so I had to adjust rapidly and follow her lead.
Each of my kids has approached their learning in a unique way that reflects their own interests and personalities. Bea has taken loads of formal classes. Hal is starting community college at 15 years old this fall. He prefers audiobooks and podcasts to written books. George taught himself to read very early but learns a lot from documentaries on youtube and his dad reading to him.
I'm so sorry you experienced educational neglect - I think that more common in homeschooling circles than folks care to accept. The same way I've seen parents "unparenting" and calling it unschooling...being uninvolved in your kids' lives and learning is not unschooling, and I don't think it should be presented as legit unschooling.
As far as Ruth learning to read super early - it had its own challenges. She had no patience for "age appropriate" books and she wanted to read what she wanted to read. At age 5-6, I couldn't get her to do much of anything except draw half the day, and read the other half. She very much liked to keep to herself and read and draw to the exclusion of literally everything else (we didn't realize at the time she was on the spectrum and this kind of intense focus and hyperfixation was normal for her).
I don't know if that helps but...I wonder if Bea (who is also an adult now...I don't generally interview my minor kids and try to show them only briefly on camera), might like to talk about her experience as well because as a dyslexic unschooler, and as a kid who has wanted to be a lawyer since she was 7 and has taken EVERY class on Supreme Court case history, legal theory, etc and competed in Mock Trial since age 13...her educational needs and choices look NOTHING like her sister's.
@@ParkrosePermaculture For sure! And I know you've already put out a lot of other unschooling content that provides a more rounded, complex, and detailed picture.
I guess my basic curiosity is--you've shown a case in which unschooling hs lead to really great outcomes here. And I'm really interested in when unschooling does and doesn't work, just as I'm really interested in when other educational formats do and don't work.
I think this video is operating at the level of, "hey folks, radical approaches to education can be better sometimes! Here is one human case study." Which I fully support and find necessary. And also, I think that to build the movements we need, understanding the differences between unschooling and educational neglect--and understanding the difference between home and community environments that can successfully support unschooling vs. ones that can't--are important. Way beyond the scope of one short interview, but important and interesting. And at least tangentially related. XD
@@ParkrosePermaculture I would absolutley love to see a survey discussion or a statistical breakdown of how unschooling has played out for your kids and other kids in your community, which includes places where folks have struggled and parents and community members have problem solved in those cases. :)
are you familiar with yes-i-can-write.blogspot.com ? They talked a lot about adult unschoolers. I know perhaps 20-ish adult unschoolers who have gone on to do a diversity of things from college and grad school to trade school to being "nonstarters" living in their parents basement (or, I would argue, developing on their own timeline, not the culture's expectations). I don't really know if that data on outcomes for unschoolers has been quantified, but if you find any, I'd love to see it!! or maybe that's someone's Sociology/Ed D thesis if it's not been studied yet?
I am always of two minds about homeschooling - it's been really good for my kids to be unschooled and I know they would have struggled in public school...but I also know kids are neglected in some homeschooling families, and homeschoolers can more easily hide abuse. My husband is a public school teacher. He would be the first to admit there are lots of problems with public school, but for most families, it is the system they must engage with and kids there need and deserve the best educational opportunities possible.
In our experience, a lot of folks come to unschooling - specifically secular unschooling - because their kids had very real trauma in public school - often centered around special ed or behavioral issues. They wanted more compassion and flexibility for their kids - recognizing the system doesn't do well in supporting kids who are outliers from the middle. And a lot of homeschoolers we know came to "School of The Dining Room Table" out of a fear of indoctrination and a desire for a religious and controlled learning environment. Those are two HUGELY different groups who often get lumped in together when folks talk about problems with homeschooling...but the potential risks for kids in either group are hugely different.
And I don't personally know how much in-depth comparison has been done between homeschool philosophies and risks for educational neglect. Much less to control for the KINDS of kids that are unschooled - are they more likely to be neurodivergent and that's why their parents came to unschooling? That was definitely the case for us.
One more reason I love your channel! Well stated, Ruth! My homeschooled kids enjoyed similar experiences as yours! Their social circle is broad, their interests fanned, their reasoning skills honed. Those of my kids who have experienced college have consistently been on the honor roll. Homeschooling was a great fit for our family!
When my son was 5 , I must confess, I did ask cringy, direct questions of homeschoolers I ran into in weird places. I skipped the preamble of my son was reading at first grade level at 4 and K seemed to be emotional torture for him and jumped to what I was wrestling with. I then quizzed PS kids about states, some math and found 5th graders were not able to do what 5yo was. I was bullied into leaving him in "system" for he certainly didn't learn anything, until he was 8 and clinically depressed for 2 yrs. Even at 18 he had deep test anxiety from those horrid years but easily passed GED. How did Ruth decide to go to college? My son is also aspie and refused to "jump the hoops", even showing him what I thought would be attractive to him... He refused. So he speaks Mandarin, has driven trucks cross country, worked in warehouses where boss didn't appreciate flow improvement, and does calculations in his head that he can't tell you if they are algebra or geometry or calculus involving %, distance, weight or volts. He used to like to spend time with geeks until he discovered the bias against blue collar work. What are your professional goals?
She really wants to work for the Forest Service or USGS (I think watching Oregon Field Guide a LOT as a kid sparked this passion) and knew she'd need at bachelors - at least - in order to get to where she wants to go. She says, "This is a gift I am giving Future Ruth." when some classes are not particularly fun. She got her GED and lives at home while going to school - although this summer she has an internship at PSU's Climate Lab and will be living in their dorms, so that will be a new experience for her.
Oh, she says to say she also really loves taking German and is still deciding on whether to double major in German and Fish&Wildlife or just the latter but keep taking German classes.
Thank you! Loved the video!! We mainly unschool and I have been starting to feel the pressure to start regular stricter curriculum type schooling because I’m starting to worry my boys (9 and 13) aren’t learning enough. Or “should” know more by now. How can I pull back from that doubt in my head?
How did Ruth learn what she needed to start college? Did she just decide to learn while she found things that interested her? Did she find out what was on the entry exam and study that?
When she was younger, did you encourage her to read educational materials? My sons are 13 and 9 and I’m starting to worry my oldest at home will resent me. He has been asking me to teach him recently. I feel like his request is reason enough to start curriculum. Or do I just direct him to do it himself by reading about things that he wants to learn and skip actual curriculum?
I kind of did the unschooling thing backwards. I went to public school through jr college. Then, when I transferred to a 4 year college, I chose to be in a program called New College. The first two years, which I had already completed, were a little more structured in that each semester a particular aspect of general education was emphasized. The second 2 years, which I participated in were totally free choice. Professors would offer seminars on a particular subject or you could contract with a professor on an independent project. I was mostly interested in elementary school teaching and creative writing, so I contracted with professors to visit and report on several alternative elementary schools in the SF Bay area, was the editor of a creative writing magazine, read about a couple hundred children's books and wrote one, created an organic vegetarian sandwich business at the school, among other things. People used to ask me what was I going to be able to do with such an education. I actually found that it gave me entrance to all kinds of fields because employers would not know about what a Special Major in the Liberal Arts meant and I would have to explain what it meant for me. Since I was required to make decisions about what I wanted to study, create a plan, get agreement on the project and be evaluated, most employers recognized that it wasn't especially relevant what my projects were but that I had learned to work on my own, take initiative, get agreement and negotiate with my professors....exactly the skills I would be using in most non-technical jobs.
My son also learned to read by the time he was 3.5 completely on his own 😊
I think ppl interrogate homeschoolers because they want to confirm that all they stress they went through putting theur kids in public school was worth it. I hate the morning rush and the way the structure and schedule runs our lives!
Great kid...totally impressive.
Amazing
How did you teach yourself algebra? Books, youtube, practice?
Haha I was totally attacked by mosquitos in bed last night and am in the midst of huge histamine reaction, so I can empathise there! This was really interesting, thanks. My question would be - do all your children equally enjoy unschooling? I have two, and because we are English speaking migrants based in Italy, I felt it was important for my kids to go to public school so that they speak Italian well, and also feel culturally more Italian (although with a pagan, vegetarian permaculture mother, I guess they'll never fit in totally!). My daughter is super extrovert and social, so I feel like she would really miss the social side of school, but my son is introverted and in many ways I feel homeschool of some kind would suit him better. But he is a child of obsessions, and whereas sometimes it's something like animals or dinosaurs, that seems (to me) more educational...but then he goes through phases where he is obsessed with the world of Cars/Lightning McQueen racers. With unschooling, do you just let them go through these phases? Or do you nudge them to do more productive things or maybe ban tv?
Success story right here. I would love to know what is the success rate of such a method and what causes one to be successful over another.
So not unschooled, but rather home schooled?
Though a bit disrespectful, I think that the schooling parents are curious about Unschooling and that’s why they ask questions. Tbh I think it’s what we all want.
This is awesome. I suspect it may be a lot different for her as a person with autism.. unschooling may be phenomenal for her.. school may be easier for her.. etc.. but thanks for the video
Awe Ruth. The autism piece makes so much sense. Is that why you, Angela, chose to unschool in the first place? Did it start with Ruth? I am almost 60. A diagnosed ADHD, who now identifies as autistic. The ADD criteria never did fully fit. I found Ruth's early reading experience enlightening. I started reading by three, without really being taught, and entered elementary school asking them why the books were so repetitive and didn't make sense Lol.
Was it difficult for Ruth to attend college and have to sit down at a desk and have that typical school structure after being homeschooled her entire life?
I think this video is reinforcing the benefits of unschooling. I heard her say homeschooling also. I would ask you to consider the benefit to our society of teachers who have earned degrees to teach kids and are passionate about learning. Also consider the kids who benefit from public schooling because they do not have the support at home due to many different variables. For some kids school is a place to feel safe, have food, have shelter, have friends and have support. Ask yourself if there is any benefit of one way of learning verses another. Homeschooling is not the best option for everyone. And by the way Ruth is attending a college, part of the public education system. 😉
the school structure was not right for me at all. i’m autistic+adhd. i went to an independent private school prek-8th and public high school, and things just progressively got worse for me. i did not receive any kind of help until i had already given up, and eventually figured out how to test my way out of high school a year early. my pattern recognition skills pretty much carried me (except for in math, dyscalculia)
school is so restrictive. and while i’m grateful for my having access to education, there is so much unnecessary filler information given to you to just spit back out and forget, and there is so much important information being left out. i hate how education is presented as a chore and is forced upon you. as an undiagnosed neurodivergent child, it made me feel like my autonomy was being violated. it made enjoying learning, trying, practicing, patiently working, failing and redoing, and accepting constructive criticism all much more difficult for me. and i don’t know if i’ll ever be able to attend college because of what i experienced with school
🌎🌏🌍🙂
Okay so this girl is a genius but not all children will be so the children that are not naturally gifted enough to learn this stuff are going to end up bad off in the long run
I think she's a pretty typical kid with a learning disability. 🤷♀️❤️
The fact that she said “there isn’t much catching up I’ve needed to do in college” implying there was some catching up she had to participate in. And then contradicted herself with her next several statements. And if you put your kid in a liberal arts public school they’ll be exposed to things college kids haven’t explored. Example in my public HS we discussed existentialism. Seems really snooty and pretentious towards those who went a traditional public school route and thrived just as much (if not better) GPA-wise as her.
Good girl Ruth, squeaky voice and all. Angela you did an excellent and wonderful job raising your children. I wish my grand children were like you, they are nothing but a disappointment.
She was unschooled her whole life, but then goes to government brainwashing college. Lol
“Brainwashing”? Weird take. Also, she is an adult and wanted to go to college. And she knows her own mind.
@@ParkrosePermaculture I never said she didn't want to go, or that she doesn't have her own mind. It's just weird to invest so much time into homeschooling/unschooling, only to go to a government indoctrination camp in the end.
Very loaded words you're choosing. "Government indoctrination camp"? Where did you learn that propaganda?
I just asked her what she thought about that phrase and she said, "That has not even remotely been my experience. Indoctrinating me to use Z-score tables and calculate confidence intervals?! LOL."
For the career she wants, she needs a Bachelors degree, and probably a Masters. She knows where she wants to go in life and is taking the necessary steps to get there.
@@ParkrosePermaculture The funny thing about brainwashed people is that they don't know they are brainwashed. You can learn those things without government schools. You don't go to college for education. You go because of peer pressure to fit into society and make more money than people who don't go. That is it. Women shouldn't be career focused anyways. If you think institutions that teach everything came from a dot that exploded 13.7 billion years ago, and magically evolved into everything isn't brainwashing, then sorry. You're the ones drowning in modernist propaganda.
I un-schooled my daughter until she went to college. She graduated top of her class of 300. She earned many awards while there also. She just finished her Masters Degree and has a good paying job. She was super active in Girl Scouts, 4-h, dance, martial arts and other things. She currently writes grants that can be for millions of dollars. Homeschooling and unschooling are not right for everyone. It is right for some though. I am proud of your daughter for doing so well in school and for knowing what she wants. Good for her and good for you Mom