This guy Jason has a quite similar bite to what I used to have. Thankfully for him, unlike me, he didn't have premolar extractions (I did when I was 14). I did have DJS where they did a 3-piece segmented LeFort w/ advancement, and a lower jaw setback (I think it was 4mm set back); thankfully it did not result in OSA. This is when I was almost 20. My bite ended up anterior edge-to-edge and posterior crossbite. I just recently underwent MARPE/DOME and am still expanding as part of that (age 45 now). If I could do it all over, this is what I'd do: a big LeFort advancement, leaving the lower jaw alone. For the upper transverse expansion, I'd either do a MSE/DOME beforehand, or just a 2-piece segment during the LeFort surgery
Also, there's the option, when doing the LeFort advancement, to use an internal distractor to slowly advance the upper jaw to where it needs to be (especially if it's more than a 12mm advancement), via distraction osteogenesis, rather than simply moving it during surgery and using fixation. I would have considered this option as well, for the advancement part
Sure Jason! One other thing I just remembered; I don't know if techniques have changed since I did the DJS 25 years ago, but in order to do the transverse expansion piece of my upper jaw (the 3-piece segment), the doctor had to use bone grafts to fill the empty spaces. The bone was harvested from my parietal (skull) bone (he would have used iliac crest bone but said mine wasn't dense enough). I can't say for sure, but I think my doctor said that there was a limitation on how far transversely he could expand based on having to use these bone grafts. I suspect that there was a bit of relapse as well due to having to do these bone grafts, so consider this when you proceed. Whatever surgeons you talk to regarding doing LeFort advancement and possible transverse expansion, ask them if they'd have to do bone grafts and ask if there might be some relapse as a result, and if so, if the surgeon would consider over-expansion to compensate
Apologies new to all this. I have v similar bite to Jason. What do you mean by a 2-piece segment during the LeFort surgery? LeFort surgery seems exactly what I need, I am fairly sure I need my maxilla bringing forward. But is there anything else necessary after bringing the maxilla forward? Are braces then needed? Is that what you mean by doing an MSE/DOME beforehand? Apologies for the newbie questions - appreciate any help.
@@rgoddard 2-piece LeFort just means that in addition to moving the upper jaw forward, it is also cut in half down the middle so that it's also spread apart to make it wider. This would do the work that a MSE or DOME would have done instead
All of these conversations are so great thanks for sharing them. I'm rooting for Jason and hope he finds a solid team and plan to get him what he needs
Plus, if moving the lower jaw and the upper jaw were equal options to solve a discrepancy between the two jaws…why would you ever choose to mess around with the position of a jaw that “moves” and is associated with a mobile joint? All things being equal (which they are not) you would always want to choose the non-mobile jaw…the maxilla. But things are NOT EQUAL. The problem lies with the upper jaw. Treat the problem….the maxilla. (Verified of course by radiographs)
It's only "double" jaw surgery if they cut both top and lower jaws. Upper jaw surgery alone is generally a Le Forte I or II. Lower jaw surgery is usually the BSSO operation. Double jaw surgery is the same as bimax/bimaxillary surgery. Also, there are many jaw surgeons who say surgery before braces or any kind. Healing is usually quicker if they don't have to wire/fix the mouth closed because everything can move in it's new position more quickly. Ask around, get triple opinions before deciding on a surgeon.
At 4:50 the “patient” claims to not have TMJ symptoms. That’s probably because there’s nothing wrong with the lower jaw and its position, and hence the function of the TMJ is fine. All discrepancies appear to be coming from the maxilla. I would guess “Avoid the face mask”. Don’t involve the lower jaw and forehead with face mask treatment if the problem lies with just the maxilla. Just use surgery to treat the isolated problem…the maxilla. This of course would have to be supported by skeletal measurements after X-rays and evaluation
@@famouz5880 , if pressure is being applied to pull mid-face “foward” with some appliance, there are probably forces pushing something else “backward” with the same appliance…which is not good.
Plus…the term “ForwardDONTICS” leads me to believe the appliance is “tooth focused” not “bone focused”….which is also wrong in most cases. Most cases need “skeletal” repositioning, not “dental/tooth” repositioning.
@@tjam4229that’s not how it works for adults the mandible is already fully developed it’s just an anchor for where the pressure goes only thing that would take the blow is the tmj other than that it’s not retracting anything
MSE + Facemask is a terrible idea for an adult male. It shouldn't even be discussed. This guy needs surgically assisted MSE, and then likely DJS - possibly just upper jaw surgery. That maxilla needs to come forward like 10+ mm. Facemask is not getting there. Don't even think about it.
face mask would take years probably and id imagine that constant force could cause TJM problems, but fase mask would give good forward projection on all his facial features such as nose and checks and brow ridge, surgery can give strange results sometimes when you take the maxila far forward as all the other bones stay behind and dont come all forward in unison leaving a strange result, , ive had double jaw surgery it turn out a total mess it left me class 3 with my lower jaw super far forward and now need a second surgery
@@JawHacks one of these days Id love to do a interview with you, I’ve have had double jaw surgery it turned out a total mess and am now doing MSC, I’ve followed your videos and website from the start, you have truly helped me along the way and I think my experience and everything I have learned could help your viewers alot, plus I want to put shame where it’s deserved on the Sergeon that made a mess of my face as I had a normal attractive face before surgery and now I have a deformed face, I think my insight could help your viewers from making the same mistakes I did
Yoooo tell this guy ASAP (I hope he sees this) there is another guy in Oakville (30 mins drive from toronto) that does MSE and the initial consult is free. Its Olde Oakville dental Dr De Souza. I think he may be relatively new with it as the name must've just been added recently If you didnt see it at the time of this video
@@JawHacks I have an MSE online course by Won Moon that I discovered and downloaded it. Don't remember the source of it. I would like to send it to you. How can I do that?
@@JawHacks I am getting facemask without MSE at 19 y/o for moderate underbite. Do you think after a year of constant effort and using more than 1 band per side I could get 2-3mm of foward growth?
@@33Champiit's been a year but I doubt you got much out of a non MSE facemask. Without MSE there's no suture loosening so your maxilla is super immobile, and it's immobile enough even with mse.
You can try olde oakville dental, they're in toronto, I just don't know how good they are. MSE>MMA would be the ideal scenario as distraction osteogenesis is more stable and predictable, and you can correct any asymmetries which might be created by the expansion during the MMA. On the other hand you might not expand, at which point probably your best bet is to just fix both issues at the same time. If you really want to try non surgical MSE I would hurry it up as if it's possible right now, very quickly that probably will change.
Hi, I am quite scared of doing a big procedure like double jaw surgery or MSE, not because I'm afraid of the risks, but because I do not want to look radically different all of a sudden. Is it possible to go through one or either of these procedures and not have any friends or family notice? No one really understands mewing / the importance of oral posture and jaw development, and I'm just worried what people would think of me for going through a potentially radical change to my face, but I do value my health, and I get how important posture is, it makes so much sense. It just looks healthy having a good posture and jaw. If you think one of those procedures would be very noticeable, I'd prefer to find a way which would be a very slow change to my face over a number of years, unfortunately I don't think mewing alone will do this, do you have any recommendations?
@@luke14946 narrow palate, can't mew. I have poor sleep quality, poor digestion and poor posture..I'm sure these issues will be helped if I can get proper nasal breathing, so it's an incentive to get my face to how it was always meant to be. I also don't like the idea that my face is basically deformed (though i don't think I'm ugly) because I haven't maintained proper posture from young childhood.
@@luke14946 and yes a lot of dental crowding, forgot to mention. "Any particular areas other than the palate that you think need to be improved?" - The mandible needs to widen too and it needs to come forward / (maxilla needs to go back). No extractions.
@@luke14946 When I said maxilla needs to go back I didn't mean that with any certainty, it's probably more the case that the mandible needs to go forward instead. I just couldn't remember which one is supposed to happen or both. But that sounds right that the mandible needs to go forward, i think my maxilla is probably recessed a little too maybe. i can't actually remember what happens when mewing is done correctly, i know the face wides and the distance between the chin and forehead shortens, but I can't remember the specifics. Heard of MSDO....I'm really looking for the least invasive / radical options possible, i want to be in a position where i can improve my facial structure gradually through mewing. Do you think it is possible to widen the palate using mike mew's biobloc, and then use MSDO to widen the mandible, and then just mew after I've done that? I can't remember if the biobloc is capable of splitting the midpalatal suture? And if not, whether having the tongue space to mew correctly after using the biobloc will allow me to split the midpalatal suture through mewing?
I would say the first few things are proper tongue posture/myofunctional habits when eating, sleeping, and nasal breathing throughout the day. I was never really a mouth breather but I constantly would leave my tongue on the bottom of my mouth. I also had a tongue thrust for years growing up. Now I’m class iii and in need of surgery to resolve my health issues
@@acardinalconsideration824 Thank you for your reply! Have you looked into airway dentists? I found one dentist based out of Seattle who corrected an underbite without surgery via expansion. I’ll try to find the post to share here! My older brother has an underbite so I was investigating
What sort of time frame is someone looking at if they do MSE into jaw surgery? How long in braces after expansion pre-op and how long after op? I know you can't give an exact answer but what have you seen from the cases you've heard about? (assuming initial MSE expansion is 2-3 months)
1.5-2 years leading into surgery. Another 6-12 months after for finishing touch ortho. Ideally doing as much ortho prior to surgery as opposed to after. Just a rough estimation based on what i've seen.
I talked to a sergeon he said 3 months minimum after MSC expansion for bones to heal in suture and then it depends on how quickly the orthodontist can get your teeth aligned before surgery, the ideal is that when you do the surgery you will have the perfect bite, so it’s stable for the surgery you want really need orthodontics my surgeon and orthodontist are confident within 6 months of Finishing MSE expansion they will have me ready to do surgery but I’m only doing 2-3mm of expansion
Hey I have a question about DJS and MSE. So, as I understand MSE can increase the nasal capacity and therefore improve nasal breathing. is this also the case for DJS, does this also increase nasal breathing?
DJS can improve nasal breathing, depending on the movements. There are a lot of different techniques and movements that can be done, and not all surgeons are equal. Counter clockwise rotation and downgrafting can increase the nasal space. Advancing the maxilla can also create some nasal space. Some surgeons also do nasal contouring - essentially shaving the lateral walls of the nose. Some surgeons, however, do impaction, which decreases the vertical space of the nose - or they don't do much rotation, or just small advancements. So make sure to go with a good surgeon who knows what they're doing and can increase the airway.
He may be able to avoid jaw surgery by first using facemask for a few months for about 3mm of protraction followed by some SFOT augmentation on top of that for another 2mm.
Facemask will 99% be a waste of time, energy and money on his end. I am not sure if there has ever been a single individual in the world who has fixed an underbite like his with Facemask. MSE/EASE and/or MMA or nothing is the way for him.
How anyone could advice this guy to move the lower jaw back should be put in jail for endangerment. He would be so recessed you could immediately see even optically that he would be suffocating on his own tongue.
It's certainly possible to have soft tissue (muscle) strengthening, tongue strengthening, etc. As for bone, who knows. Probably over the medium to long term, yeah.
Any tips with some kind of way for me to use elastics to assist in forward pull that isnt the default blue plastic headgear or the crane neck gear? The basic headgear pushes uncomfortably on my head and chin and can fall off easily too at times, even trying to put it upside down as you have before. Also since it pushes on my chin my jaw joint gets tired and painful/cracks after 1hour even as it ends up tense trying to counteract the force of it pushing my mandible in. The crane headgear activates my sympathetic nervous system to some degree and stiffens my neck, causing pain in/around my neck and vertebrate within 1-2 hour. I've been missing out on a few good mm of potential forward growth over the last 8+ months, by trying to only rely on my upper jaw palatal expander to also stretch things forward.
ive studied jaw surgery to the last detail spent 100s of hours speaking to over 20 surgeons, you need me on your channel, they can bring his lower jaw back and his upper jaw forward, the Frankfurt and Andrews Line / analysis will tell him what needs to be done
Hey! Can you contact me so i can give you information about an argentinean leader in mse providing? I think it could be powerfull for people in latam who wants to go trough this process.
This guy Jason has a quite similar bite to what I used to have. Thankfully for him, unlike me, he didn't have premolar extractions (I did when I was 14).
I did have DJS where they did a 3-piece segmented LeFort w/ advancement, and a lower jaw setback (I think it was 4mm set back); thankfully it did not result in OSA. This is when I was almost 20. My bite ended up anterior edge-to-edge and posterior crossbite. I just recently underwent MARPE/DOME and am still expanding as part of that (age 45 now).
If I could do it all over, this is what I'd do: a big LeFort advancement, leaving the lower jaw alone. For the upper transverse expansion, I'd either do a MSE/DOME beforehand, or just a 2-piece segment during the LeFort surgery
Also, there's the option, when doing the LeFort advancement, to use an internal distractor to slowly advance the upper jaw to where it needs to be (especially if it's more than a 12mm advancement), via distraction osteogenesis, rather than simply moving it during surgery and using fixation. I would have considered this option as well, for the advancement part
THAT'S really interesting. Thanks for sharing your experience. It is Jason's future self speaking to him through a time portal.
Sure Jason! One other thing I just remembered; I don't know if techniques have changed since I did the DJS 25 years ago, but in order to do the transverse expansion piece of my upper jaw (the 3-piece segment), the doctor had to use bone grafts to fill the empty spaces. The bone was harvested from my parietal (skull) bone (he would have used iliac crest bone but said mine wasn't dense enough). I can't say for sure, but I think my doctor said that there was a limitation on how far transversely he could expand based on having to use these bone grafts. I suspect that there was a bit of relapse as well due to having to do these bone grafts, so consider this when you proceed.
Whatever surgeons you talk to regarding doing LeFort advancement and possible transverse expansion, ask them if they'd have to do bone grafts and ask if there might be some relapse as a result, and if so, if the surgeon would consider over-expansion to compensate
Apologies new to all this.
I have v similar bite to Jason.
What do you mean by a 2-piece segment during the LeFort surgery?
LeFort surgery seems exactly what I need, I am fairly sure I need my maxilla bringing forward.
But is there anything else necessary after bringing the maxilla forward? Are braces then needed? Is that what you mean by doing an MSE/DOME beforehand?
Apologies for the newbie questions - appreciate any help.
@@rgoddard 2-piece LeFort just means that in addition to moving the upper jaw forward, it is also cut in half down the middle so that it's also spread apart to make it wider. This would do the work that a MSE or DOME would have done instead
Jason whoever tells you to bring something backward, just visibly laugh and leave the office.
I won't argue with that!
All of these conversations are so great thanks for sharing them. I'm rooting for Jason and hope he finds a solid team and plan to get him what he needs
Thank you Bed and Jason
I’m loving these types of videos. Interviewing clients and discussing their malocclusion… Extremely educational.
Surgical case. It will look incredible after. Can’t wait for mine coming up
You need to listen to Ron 100% you need to move the maxilla forward, DO NOT move it back whatever you do.
Factsss ji
I had a very similar case. A year ago I underwent maxillary advancement surgery- lefort 1. I would recommend the surgery.
Plus, if moving the lower jaw and the upper jaw were equal options to solve a discrepancy between the two jaws…why would you ever choose to mess around with the position of a jaw that “moves” and is associated with a mobile joint? All things being equal (which they are not) you would always want to choose the non-mobile jaw…the maxilla. But things are NOT EQUAL. The problem lies with the upper jaw. Treat the problem….the maxilla. (Verified of course by radiographs)
Super insightful video. Learned alot.
Thanks for the feedback.
It's only "double" jaw surgery if they cut both top and lower jaws. Upper jaw surgery alone is generally a Le Forte I or II. Lower jaw surgery is usually the BSSO operation. Double jaw surgery is the same as bimax/bimaxillary surgery. Also, there are many jaw surgeons who say surgery before braces or any kind. Healing is usually quicker if they don't have to wire/fix the mouth closed because everything can move in it's new position more quickly. Ask around, get triple opinions before deciding on a surgeon.
At 4:50 the “patient” claims to not have TMJ symptoms. That’s probably because there’s nothing wrong with the lower jaw and its position, and hence the function of the TMJ is fine.
All discrepancies appear to be coming from the maxilla.
I would guess “Avoid the face mask”. Don’t involve the lower jaw and forehead with face mask treatment if the problem lies with just the maxilla. Just use surgery to treat the isolated problem…the maxilla. This of course would have to be supported by skeletal measurements after X-rays and evaluation
Use forwardontics bow not face mask.
@@famouz5880 , if pressure is being applied to pull mid-face “foward” with some appliance, there are probably forces pushing something else “backward” with the same appliance…which is not good.
Plus…the term “ForwardDONTICS” leads me to believe the appliance is “tooth focused” not “bone focused”….which is also wrong in most cases. Most cases need “skeletal” repositioning, not “dental/tooth” repositioning.
@@tjam4229that’s not how it works for adults the mandible is already fully developed it’s just an anchor for where the pressure goes only thing that would take the blow is the tmj other than that it’s not retracting anything
MSE + Facemask is a terrible idea for an adult male. It shouldn't even be discussed. This guy needs surgically assisted MSE, and then likely DJS - possibly just upper jaw surgery. That maxilla needs to come forward like 10+ mm. Facemask is not getting there. Don't even think about it.
True, especially for a case this severe
face mask would take years probably and id imagine that constant force could cause TJM problems, but fase mask would give good forward projection on all his facial features such as nose and checks and brow ridge, surgery can give strange results sometimes when you take the maxila far forward as all the other bones stay behind and dont come all forward in unison leaving a strange result, , ive had double jaw surgery it turn out a total mess it left me class 3 with my lower jaw super far forward and now need a second surgery
Thanks for the info, I appreciate you detailing your experience and insight.
@@JawHacks one of these days Id love to do a interview with you, I’ve have had double jaw surgery it turned out a total mess and am now doing MSC, I’ve followed your videos and website from the start, you have truly helped me along the way and I think my experience and everything I have learned could help your viewers alot, plus I want to put shame where it’s deserved on the Sergeon that made a mess of my face as I had a normal attractive face before surgery and now I have a deformed face, I think my insight could help your viewers from making the same mistakes I did
Yoooo tell this guy ASAP (I hope he sees this) there is another guy in Oakville (30 mins drive from toronto) that does MSE and the initial consult is free.
Its Olde Oakville dental Dr De Souza. I think he may be relatively new with it as the name must've just been added recently If you didnt see it at the time of this video
@Jason Wise did you go through with surgery?
Never let them move the mandible backwards
I have that bite and I am correcting it with both
More videos for underbite using mse plus facemask, please.
According to Won Moon, most of the protraction from the facemask happens in the first 2 months.
Good info can you please tell us where you heard that? Thanks bruh!
@@JawHacks I have an MSE online course by Won Moon that I discovered and downloaded it. Don't remember the source of it. I would like to send it to you. How can I do that?
@@stefm5640 can you email it to ronald@jawhacks.com? thanks.
@@JawHacks I am getting facemask without MSE at 19 y/o for moderate underbite. Do you think after a year of constant effort and using more than 1 band per side I could get 2-3mm of foward growth?
@@33Champiit's been a year but I doubt you got much out of a non MSE facemask. Without MSE there's no suture loosening so your maxilla is super immobile, and it's immobile enough even with mse.
No TMJ symptoms yet because he’s still 20yo and male 👀
No symptoms except for the giant POP lolol
@@JawHacks haha true
You can try olde oakville dental, they're in toronto, I just don't know how good they are. MSE>MMA would be the ideal scenario as distraction osteogenesis is more stable and predictable, and you can correct any asymmetries which might be created by the expansion during the MMA. On the other hand you might not expand, at which point probably your best bet is to just fix both issues at the same time.
If you really want to try non surgical MSE I would hurry it up as if it's possible right now, very quickly that probably will change.
Won Moon's successful adult facemask cases were female edge to edge class 3, probably a bit too bold to try a facemask in his case.
Some MSE folks will actually do MSE and bring lower back, totally wrecking the airway. Gotta be careful.
good videos ron
Thank you very much, glad you are enjoying them.
Hi, I am quite scared of doing a big procedure like double jaw surgery or MSE, not because I'm afraid of the risks, but because I do not want to look radically different all of a sudden.
Is it possible to go through one or either of these procedures and not have any friends or family notice?
No one really understands mewing / the importance of oral posture and jaw development, and I'm just worried what people would think of me for going through a potentially radical change to my face, but I do value my health, and I get how important posture is, it makes so much sense. It just looks healthy having a good posture and jaw.
If you think one of those procedures would be very noticeable, I'd prefer to find a way which would be a very slow change to my face over a number of years, unfortunately I don't think mewing alone will do this, do you have any recommendations?
@@luke14946 narrow palate, can't mew. I have poor sleep quality, poor digestion and poor posture..I'm sure these issues will be helped if I can get proper nasal breathing, so it's an incentive to get my face to how it was always meant to be. I also don't like the idea that my face is basically deformed (though i don't think I'm ugly) because I haven't maintained proper posture from young childhood.
@@luke14946 and yes a lot of dental crowding, forgot to mention.
"Any particular areas other than the palate that you think need to be improved?" - The mandible needs to widen too and it needs to come forward / (maxilla needs to go back).
No extractions.
@@luke14946 When I said maxilla needs to go back I didn't mean that with any certainty, it's probably more the case that the mandible needs to go forward instead. I just couldn't remember which one is supposed to happen or both. But that sounds right that the mandible needs to go forward, i think my maxilla is probably recessed a little too maybe. i can't actually remember what happens when mewing is done correctly, i know the face wides and the distance between the chin and forehead shortens, but I can't remember the specifics.
Heard of MSDO....I'm really looking for the least invasive / radical options possible, i want to be in a position where i can improve my facial structure gradually through mewing.
Do you think it is possible to widen the palate using mike mew's biobloc, and then use MSDO to widen the mandible, and then just mew after I've done that?
I can't remember if the biobloc is capable of splitting the midpalatal suture? And if not, whether having the tongue space to mew correctly after using the biobloc will allow me to split the midpalatal suture through mewing?
@@luke14946 Not sure what other options i have then?
@@luke14946 sorry i thought someone might be able to deduce a solution based on a description of myself.
Hi Ron, what would be your recommendation for parents to remedy an underbite when it is first noticed? What are the earliest interventions?
I would say the first few things are proper tongue posture/myofunctional habits when eating, sleeping, and nasal breathing throughout the day. I was never really a mouth breather but I constantly would leave my tongue on the bottom of my mouth. I also had a tongue thrust for years growing up. Now I’m class iii and in need of surgery to resolve my health issues
@@acardinalconsideration824 Thank you for your reply! Have you looked into airway dentists?
I found one dentist based out of Seattle who corrected an underbite without surgery via expansion. I’ll try to find the post to share here! My older brother has an underbite so I was investigating
What sort of time frame is someone looking at if they do MSE into jaw surgery? How long in braces after expansion pre-op and how long after op? I know you can't give an exact answer but what have you seen from the cases you've heard about? (assuming initial MSE expansion is 2-3 months)
1.5-2 years leading into surgery. Another 6-12 months after for finishing touch ortho. Ideally doing as much ortho prior to surgery as opposed to after. Just a rough estimation based on what i've seen.
@@JawHacks that's brutal, I was expecting jaw surgery about a year out from getting the MSE installed. Thanks for the reply.
I talked to a sergeon he said 3 months minimum after MSC expansion for bones to heal in suture and then it depends on how quickly the orthodontist can get your teeth aligned before surgery, the ideal is that when you do the surgery you will have the perfect bite, so it’s stable for the surgery you want really need orthodontics my surgeon and orthodontist are confident within 6 months of Finishing MSE expansion they will have me ready to do surgery but I’m only doing 2-3mm of expansion
@@luke14946 thanks
Is there a specific website that you use to find MSE providers?
Ronald, what do you think of EASE vs MSE. Some people online are saying EASE is now superior
Hey I have a question about DJS and MSE. So, as I understand MSE can increase the nasal capacity and therefore improve nasal breathing. is this also the case for DJS, does this also increase nasal breathing?
DJS can improve nasal breathing, depending on the movements. There are a lot of different techniques and movements that can be done, and not all surgeons are equal. Counter clockwise rotation and downgrafting can increase the nasal space. Advancing the maxilla can also create some nasal space. Some surgeons also do nasal contouring - essentially shaving the lateral walls of the nose. Some surgeons, however, do impaction, which decreases the vertical space of the nose - or they don't do much rotation, or just small advancements. So make sure to go with a good surgeon who knows what they're doing and can increase the airway.
He may be able to avoid jaw surgery by first using facemask for a few months for about 3mm of protraction followed by some SFOT augmentation on top of that for another 2mm.
Facemask will 99% be a waste of time, energy and money on his end. I am not sure if there has ever been a single individual in the world who has fixed an underbite like his with Facemask.
MSE/EASE and/or MMA or nothing is the way for him.
How can I contacts you bro ? I need serious advice
How anyone could advice this guy to move the lower jaw back should be put in jail for endangerment.
He would be so recessed you could immediately see even optically that he would be suffocating on his own tongue.
out of topic question, is it possible to have growth while wearing bottom retainers?
It's certainly possible to have soft tissue (muscle) strengthening, tongue strengthening, etc. As for bone, who knows. Probably over the medium to long term, yeah.
i think his jaw doesnt look particularly long, it's just that his maxilla is too recessed
Yeah
100%
Any tips with some kind of way for me to use elastics to assist in forward pull that isnt the default blue plastic headgear or the crane neck gear? The basic headgear pushes uncomfortably on my head and chin and can fall off easily too at times, even trying to put it upside down as you have before. Also since it pushes on my chin my jaw joint gets tired and painful/cracks after 1hour even as it ends up tense trying to counteract the force of it pushing my mandible in. The crane headgear activates my sympathetic nervous system to some degree and stiffens my neck, causing pain in/around my neck and vertebrate within 1-2 hour. I've been missing out on a few good mm of potential forward growth over the last 8+ months, by trying to only rely on my upper jaw palatal expander to also stretch things forward.
All facemasks stink to a certain degree. You could try The Bow.
ive studied jaw surgery to the last detail spent 100s of hours speaking to over 20 surgeons, you need me on your channel, they can bring his lower jaw back and his upper jaw forward, the Frankfurt and Andrews Line / analysis will tell him what needs to be done
Good info, thanks.
Bro if he do modified lefort 3
First
1love
Second
2love
Hey! Can you contact me so i can give you information about an argentinean leader in mse providing? I think it could be powerfull for people in latam who wants to go trough this process.
Can you post it right here? If not contact me through my blog (link in description).
@@JawHacks Already did it.
OMG that TMJ click 🥲 I can feel you bro.