,,👍agree. They can throw all the stones they want at Pete, but they can't erase his accomplishments, honors, victories and the joy he brought to the fans who saw him play.
I was a kid in the Philly area in the late 70s and 80s when Rose was there. After games at the Vet many of us kids waited for the players to come out and we would ask for autographs. There was one player -- and only one player -- who always stopped to sign autographs and chat with us -- Rose.
@@johncreech6617 yes you can…a degenerate gambler is a degenerate gambler…rules are rules…and disgusting lying human beings are disgusting lying human beings….he had quite a few years to come clean…he waited and waited….just like he will be waiting outside that door of the hall of fame for eternity…..quite a appropriate legacy…will teach kids quite a bit….grow up.
When you consider what today's players are merely suspended for (not banned) and considering that every conceivable aspect of American sport is dominated by betting/gambling, it's absolutely ridiculous that Pete Rose is not in the Hall of Fame
So players are allowed to bet on games now? No? Because it's still the cardinal rule you don't violate. Oh, and Roberto Alamor is permanently ineligible. Go ahead and look up what he did. The consequences for violating actions today are way more severe than they were for similar infractions back in the day.
I stand by my comment, which references American sport, including baseball. Illegal drug use/doping, assault, illegal carry/possession of a firearm, and gambling/betting. These are all things professional athletes have been suspended for (not banned) and were allowed to return to their respective leagues. I understand some athletes have been permanently banned from their sports, I'm saying outright bans are few and far between, suspensions (sometimes with pay) are far more likely. In today's America, doping, assault, and illegal firearm possession are far worse to me than betting on games
Johnny Bench told Dan Patrick that Rose WAS offered a second chance but Rose refused to make the required lifestyle changes. This conflicts with Dan Patrick's theory that Rose's alleged gambling as a player was the point of no return for reinstatement.
😢 Rest in peace, Pete Rose. I must give and show respect to Pete Rose, the player, instead of judging the man. He was a player who put forth the effort, every time he was on the field. One is hard pressed to find his drive in many players today. To wait until now, when Pete Rose can not smile and accept it, is a crime against him. Rest in Respect
Pete was a PDFile for what he did with that 14 year old girl. Oh and he's not getting in the Hall btw, he's PERMANENTLY ineligible - death doesn't change that.
Violated Rule 21, Dowd Report, MLB being told by SI that they were digging into a story of Rose and his gambling, Rose signing a paper accepting his ban for life cause of the overwhelming evidence against him.
No freaking way. He bet on baseball as a MANAGER. There are reports that he bet against his team. Even if he didn't do that, you can't bet. Especially now, when sports gambling is becoming huge... You have to draw a red line. The threat to the game that widespread gambling poses is no joke.
Yeah, he should be in but it's his own fault that he's not. All he had to do was express ANY regret and apologize right away and he's in before 2000. Instead, he mercenarily tries to monetize the apology to sell a book. It's all sad but he wasn't a victim. I can't remember which former teammate said it but he was too wrapped up in his "Charlie Hustle, macho, toxic masculinity" stereotype. To me, sometimes the bravest words a man can utter are "I'm sorry". Too bad that the "never apologize" mindset is often praised.
Costas is right on this one. HOF is a place to celebrate the game, it is a museum. Fact that they do not have Pete Rose or Joe Jackson in the HOF is missing huge part of the games history. I believe they did not let Rose in out of spite and by keeping him out it keeps people talking about the HOF - ie it is better for their business. Always follow the money.
I’m glad the HOF held fast. ALL who cheats should be held accountable. Kids emulate these privileged athletes so there is a responsibility for them to fulfill their “role model”status whether they like it or not.
then ban mlb itself for creating a system where one team can spend many times more money to sign the players it wants than the other teams. that's called cheating...
Betting as a manager is actually worse than betting as a player. A manager can leave a pitcher in too long to win a bet. A player would always be going all-out for the win, I would think, with no real chance to hurt the team if he bet on his team to win. My take is contrary to what most would think, but it feels like it has not been fully discussed by others. The natural reaction is to say that betting as a player is worse, but baseball is a solitary game. Each player can only interact with himself, and if a player bet on his team to win, I don't see where there could be conflict. Pete betting as a manager is far worse. I think be bet as both a player and a manager, but I feel that most people's hot takes on the matter are backwards.
Bob, I understand your angle. you always wax poetic about the history of the game. But it is quite clear what the signs of says in every clubhouse. “You can’t bet on baseball”
Ugh, NO. He was asked to be contrite by the old commissioner before even being considered to have the ban lifted. He was still arrogant as hell about it. Gambling on the sport you play and manage in should be an automatic no entry into any historic hall of fame which should be an HONOR to be in. He didn't make a real apology. That's why he was never considered again.
You are so correct. He was an arrogant jerk who never stopped gambling; what's worse, he openly cavorted around with teenage girls! Pete Rose was a great baseball player, but that was the only thing great about him. Other than that, he was a first class jerk. Bob Costas is too!
Bud Selig made it a condition that anyone coming forward to be a commissioner of baseball had to agree not to reinstate Pete Rose. That tie to Bud Selig has to be broken then at least postumously Pete Rose can get into the hall of fame. 4,256 hits - Put an asterisk next to Pete Rose's plaque saying that he bet on baseball but put him in the Hall of Fame, enough Bud Selig.
The Hall is about accomplishments. Pete is on the top of the hits mountain. He was a champion. He deserved to get in. Miss me with him hurting “the integrity of the game, brought to you by Draft Kings” bs. I’m on the other side of Dan on this one. Of course Bud “came across” like there was more, he had it in for Pete. I’ll take Costas’ word on this one over Dan’s bash fest with Bud Selig.
@@Bibbo8844hdbks The richer someone gets the less empathy they have. You might want to read the work of sociologist Paul Piff. Look up the Monopoly experiment.
No, Bob. You are incorrect. Pete Rose knew the rules against betting on baseball. He not only got caught red handed, he lied about it for decades. Not only did he constantly call his bookie from the clubhouse phone, he wrote a check to his bookie! He never came clean until he had a book to promote.
No sir. Joe was paid to throw a game, regardless of his effort in that game/series. Pete bet as a manager on his team to win. Different. Pete's playing career belongs in the Hall.
I'm a huge Costas fan - especially about baseball - but seriously which is more likely? That there's no evidence Pete Rose bet on baseball while he was a player, or that Rob Manfred actually cared enough to find out? Also - that little allegory about the kid? That fictional conversation should be the dad telling the kid that he watched this great baseball player who isn't there because he thought he was above the rules.
Exactly. Played the game like you want it to be played but he literally gambled it away and let his friends/supporters linger out there for over 10yrs lying on his behalf (believing his innocence claims).
@@markjackson6134 He was a great player I'm sure. But he didn't play the game the way I would want it to be played. He ruined a catcher's entire career when he ran over him in an all-star game. Seriously, what kind of player/person would think it's okay to do that in an exhibition game? Beyond his playing days and his career as a manager, Pete was by many accounts a jerk. He wasn't contrite at any point about what he did unless it benefitted him. HIs comments earlier this year comparing his situation to Ohtani's were (at the very least) borderline racist, he felt the need to denigrate Ichiro's accomplishments because he was threatened by the idea that another guy may have even been suggested to have had more hits playing professional baseball, and on and on. It's always so interesting to me how many people are desperate to advocate for guys like Bonds or Rose. Both tarnished their own legacies and did so with a middle finger to everyone in the sport. Pete LITERALLY signed his own death warrant from the sport and then wanted it reversed later. Why should MLB be required to take a high road for a guy who broke the cardinal rule of baseball when Pete refused to do the same for them all those years? He even repeatedly lied about it. They've never denied his accomplishments, his talent, or anything else. They just don't see him as a fitting representative for the sport. And given how flagrantly he did it, what should he have realistically expected?
@@CodemanAmerica I meant minus that act in the allstar game and jumping on a 2nd baseman or SS in the playoffs, I believe? There's also reports of him (and bad quotes from him about it) with underage females. But he did play hard always. I respect that. But that's about it.
@@CodemanAmerica Wrong. Read the newspaper stories at the time. It was a totally clean play. Fosse was blocking the plate without having the ball. First, this is illegal in baseball. Second, if the game was meaningless, then Fosse should definitely not be doing it. Rose did nothing wrong versus Fosse. Fosse did the wrong and illegal thing, and got hurt because of it. If Rose would have slid, he would have risked breaking his leg -- because Fosse was blocking the plate wearing shin guards. As it was, Rose injured his thigh/knee and missed three games. Fosse didn't miss any games.
You have to follow the rules, no matter who you are. That's the example that has to be set. We stopped doing that, which explains a lot of what's going on today.
He was one of a kind, Charlie Hustle. I didn't like what he did to Fosse and to a lightweight Harrelson, but I admire his talent and accomplishments. He took a bite out of the apple, knowing the consequences. May he Rest in Peace.
I totally disagree with Costas. Pete bet on baseball. That particular rule from the rule book is and has always been posted (since 1919) on the way out of every major league clubhouse. There is not excuse. I grew up in Cincinnati during the Big Red Machine era and worked for them when Pete returned to the Reds. I continue to say that Pete is the player that made the absolute most of his abilities - no one can even come close to that in the history of the game. But Pete was also the only star from the Big Red Machine that wasn't a nice guy. Much of that comes from his using a chip on his shoulder to drive himself. He thought he was bigger than baseball. He refused to admit he gambled on baseball when given the opportunity - he lived with those consequences.
I have been saying the same thing for years. If the numbers don't matter then put Bo Jackson in the H.O.F in Baseball ,and while were at it put him the Football. H.O.F.as well. Bonds and Rose not being in makes it more of joke than a true measure of greatness
You can't let Pete in without Joe Jackson, too. And that's not going to happen. We may never know the full story with either one, but especially Jackson because it was so long ago. Separating fact from fiction there is impossible now. Baseball had a serious gambling problem then, with many teams and many players; the White Sox simply were the ones that got busted and made examples of to try to stop the problem.
The irony of your statement is the reason Rose was banned for life bc of gambling was bc of Joe Jackson and his fellow Black Soxs threw the WS in 1919. This led to the most important rule in MLB, NO GAMBLING.
Most people don't get it about Rose. There is 1 unforgivable act in MLB, betting on baseball. After the Black Sox 1919 WS, MLB was a hairs breath from ending. The penalty is known. There's no vagary. Gamble on MLB and you're done. MLB was never going to let him in while he was alive. MLB was never going to allow him to receive the adulation and credit he rightfully deserved. Now that he is dead, MLB will put him in.
I both believe that Pete Rose should be in the Hall of fame AND reject the defense that when he bet on his team he only bet on his team to win…. The reason for the second part is that a manager can choose to load his line up for an important game, and then hope to coast through a less important game….. more than any other major team sport. And while it may be out there but i have never read an article where someone has examined his coaching decisions and concluded that he never “robbed peter to pay paul” to give himself the best chance possible on games he bet on, then coasted on a couple of games before or after.
Pete received way more notoriety and likely made more money because of the controversy surrounding his exile than he would have if they had put him in with the asterisk or note on his plaque about being banned. Rose was always unrepentant, always arrogant about it. He only feigned a small measure of contrition and admitted what we all, already knew when he was hocking his biography. He embarrassed the game and took its caretakers as well as the fans for fools. In the end Pete Rose screwed Pete Rose.
I believe that nobody wanted to be the one to make him eligible. Although I think some believed he should’ve been in. I remember before Selig took over and they talking about the next Commish. One of the sticking points was would that person make Rose eligible. Very interesting
1) He knowing signed an agreement calling for a permanent ban, my feeling is he signed so further transgressions weren’t released. 2) Betting on your team may sound noble but it influences the way he’d manage. 3) When he finally came clean it was self motivated he was never contrite in my opinion. 4) Even after so call apologizing he made statements that made a mockery of it. While he was a great player he broke the golden rule and you can’t tell me he didn’t wait until he was a manager to start betting on baseball. For my money I’m placing Jackson, Bonds and Clemons in before Pete.
Betting on your team influences the way you manage? Like trying to win? Like what anyone should be doing as a manager? Number 3 and 4 are your personal feelings and irrelevant, no offense. He was a HOF player. Not a HOF manager. Separate the two. If he bet as a player, that should have been the reason for the ban, not stating you bet on your team to win as a coach. No one even cares about that.
@@ChiliPeppers246484 Say for example he loses a bet that had 20,000 on. His next game he bets on to make up for changes lineup to give him a better shot at winning that bet. No way to guarantee either way true but with his history of lying it is highly likely he did just that
@@charlesdoyle3630 If you are betting to win, you are betting to win. Now as soon as you do one to lose, that is a completely different situation. Now he may destroy his pen or something to win which may set them up to lose the next couple games following, but please also realize this isnt todays era of situation baseball. Back then they pretty much rolled the ball out and let the best players play.
I admire Rose immensely. But why have rules if you’re not gonna enforce them? I agree with Costas for the first time ever when he said steroids harm the game more than gambling.
I am no fan of Bob Kostas. I think he has a good understanding of baseball. But needs to read the US Constitution more often. That said, on this point, I agree with him. Pete Rose was a truly great baseball player. a lot of young players today could learn that baseball is a game of hustle, and he was Mr. hustle. I think he has done far less than a lot of people who have tried to destroy the game with steroids, etc. Rest in peace, Pete. We love to watch you play. You were truly one of the best.
The idea that it's hypocritical because the MLB gets money from gambling companies is insane. Context is everything. It doesn't matter how many alcohol adverts you see, if you go on probation and part of the conditions on your probation is that you can't drink alcohol, you have to accept it. If you breach those conditions, you go to jail. Those are the rules you have to live with. It doesn't matter who CAN bet, players and coaches CANNOT bet. That said, he needs to be in the Hall of Fame, there's no other way.
It probably hastened it, but stress of that kind won't kill you decades earlier. He probably should have been in, although he should also admitted earlier. I still think he should get in after his death, he doesn't know what is going on know, doing right has no end.
@@D.D.-ud9zt true story. My friend played baseball at Yale. As a freshman he scored from first base and a double. He was winded and at the top of the dugout some guy was smoking a small cigar. My friend said “ who is the asshole smoking a cigarillo. Another player said its the president of Yale. My friend said oops. Giamatti was a chain smoker of cigarillos. Chain smoking is not good for you.
No h is not in because the HOF does not want him, nor do the voters. The MLB has zero to do with the HOF. The HOF is totally separate from the MLB. The HOF decides who is and is not eligible. The HOF has not only decided that all banned players are not eligible, but they have also decided that players that they think were doping are also not eligible. For example, with zero actual evidence they have banned Barry Bonds. Why is he banned, because the voters have decided he is guilty, and will never vote him in. The HOF could make Rose eligible today, and no way are the voters ever gonna vote him in. Several HOF voters including Bench have said they' never vote for Rose to get in the HOF. They look at it as he broke the number one rule posted in ever clubhouse, so he is never getting in. Same reason why the 1919 White Sox players are never getting in.
@@Gnofg if giamatti simply had a heart attack and not passed on, would he have considered being banned from cigarillos for life fair? i realize pete's situation and the commisioner's aren't the same and i have no particular grudge against bart but the twisting of the knife and the need for mercy costas discusses here and elsewhere should have been doled out.
The part about feeling like it's twisting the knife if Rose is inducted posthumously, I agree if it's short term (5 years or less after death) or on the anniversary of his death no matter how long he's been dead. But I would disagree with the twisting the knife expression the longer it goes after he's dead.
The induction ceremonies at the HOF are not an official MLB function anyway. And I agree with Bob Costas. Putting Pete in now would be an insult to him in NOT letting him go in when he was alive. And MLB is really grandstanding when it comes to Rose's gambling. They have gambling ads all over the place and promote gambling like drinking water.
@@docadams7099 Those are for the fans period. You can still get suspended permanently if you are affiliated with baseball if caught gambling on. Now I hate the gambling bullshit yes but they just recently did just that to a player.
@@charlesdoyle3630 But MLB puts the temptation out there. Besides, players are fans of the game, too. It's like Budweiser famously coming out against drunk driving. "Drink a little, but don't drink too much" when they do a volume business and clearly profit from sales.
Pete WILL be inducted in the Hall now that he's dead. They didn't want him to give a speech. He was bitter and always unpredictable. Greatest PLAYER all time. He played on artificial surfaces his entire career that took a greater physical toll. Ge never played as a D.H. He played against tougher N.L. pitching his entire career. If Pete would of played on grass and D.H.'d his last years in the league he would of had 5,000 hits and played to age 50! His unreal career numbers are understated. He signed a LIFETIME ban. That's over now.
Make it make sense: after you see the stats I type how could Shoeless Joe Jackson have been in on the supposed fix of the 1919 World Series ?! Joe led both teams players in batting average, he set a World Series record at the time for base hits, he hit the only HR of the series (an inside the ballpark HR!) He was errorless-had a 1.000 fielding percentage for the entire 8 gm series. Like I said MAKE IT MAKE SENSE!
It’s time for MLB to own up that somehow a huge mistake was made in the investigation of the 1919 World Series that banned .356 lifetime hitter Shoeless Joe Jackson from MLB.
The Baseball Hall of Fame is like a club. Not every player from the past can have a plaque. The MLB has not erased any records. The history of the game of baseball is present in the Baseball Hall of Fame museum.
Just a point of context for those who might not already know: the HOF is NOT owned or controlled by MLB. It is an independent organization NOT institutionally bound in any way by the rules/regulations/decrees/disciplines of MLB. The HOF alone controls its own mandates and by-laws for admission on its voting ballots. The HOF has NO obligation to abide or even consider any MLB declarations signed by Rose. The HOF surely has a friendly/mutually-cooperative relationship with MLB, but HOF can place Rose's name on its ballots anytime it so chooses without any consultation/approval from MLB. So MLB has NO legal/contractual power to keep Rose out of the HOF. That choice is solely on the HOF.
@aiavecchia They voted not long after he was ruled permanently ineligible by MLB to exclude anyone that was banned. So there are 2 separate bans. One by MLB and one by HOF
@@charlesdoyle3630 , Understood, the HOF was influenced by the MLB ban ... but can unilaterally reverse/alter its action if ever it so chooses. MLB and it's Rose banishment cannot/do not dictate HOF administrations. The HOF is solely accountable for Rose's absence in its Hall of Plaques.
Agreed, baseball should be ashamed of what they did to Pete Rose. This game was sponsored by Draft Kings, sign up now for your first free bet of $20. Smh…
"People who poisoned the records books by taking steroids probably damaged the game more than Pete Rose ever damaged the game, they are on the ballot"... so therefore Pete Rose should be on the ballot - listen to yourself Bob Costas.
It is much more likely that O. J. Simpson’s bust will be removed from Canton before Pete Rose’s plaque will be installed in Cooperstown. And the chances of either of these happening are none to less than none.
As long as people remember baseball, they're going to remember Pete Rose. Being in the HOF is irrelevant. It's just like Lance Armstrong: his name can be removed from the record books, but nobody will forget who he was. "It still happened." No HOF can change that.
Owners of the Phillies busted Pete Rose betting on baseball in LA during playoffs. Betting on his own team. Now you let him off and more players would be betting on baseball. He learned a lesson !!!
wrong. it's one thing to bet on baseball and get caught...it's a whole other thing to lie about it for decades when you and everyone else knows your caught.
Pete Rose said he always bet on his team to win it's a lot worse if you've been on your team to lose he wanted to win he bet on them to win I ain't got no problem with that
Dan is from Cincinnati and grew up a Rose/Reds fan. I believe it is more personal with him. Plus, I can vouch for this from the days when I hosted a call in radio show. If the calls were slow, mention Pete Rose or OJ Simpson and the phones would light up. You didn't have to do any more work after that.
Let's face it, professional sports are largely a racket. The initial momentum for Major League Baseball and the NFL was gambling. Nevertheless, Rose broke the rules and was rightly punished. As Costas said the cautionary tale is obvious with Rose's banishment. If the Hall of Fame is going to feature Pete Rose memorabilia, his plaque should be installed too. Rumor has it that Rose did gamble on baseball as a player, and I have also heard that this suspicion might have factored in the Cincinnati Reds losing him to free agency in 1978. I also heard that Rose's problems in 1989 had something to do with him stiffing certain high-powered bookies, so rather than breaking his thumbs or legs, they decided to ruin his reputation and career. Of course, this having not been established should not be a factor into whether Rose is ever elected to the Hall posthumously. The bottom line is election to the Hall of Fame is not a canonization for sainthood. It's an acknowledgement of a player's extraordinary performance on the field. Pete Rose was the most entertaining player of his era and probably rates among the top 10 players in Major League Baseball history.
Dan you talk about sports ball. Let’s be honest what you “accomplish” really doesn’t matter very much for real life. It’s just entertainment. That said Hit King should have been in the hall decades ago. If he’s not I want. Cobb out for his assault and beating of fans during games & DiMaggio out for abusing Marilyn Monroe. I want Landis and Yawkey out for them keeping blacks out for decades.
If they are letting a Japanese player continue to play. After his buddy bet and embezzlement of his money no way should the best be kept out . Charlie hustle was and is one of if not the best to ever play period
3:13: I know that Roberto Alomar was recently placed on Major League Baseball's permanently ineligible list (not for gambling though) years after he was enshrined in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays were banned (for a while) from working in MLB after they both started doing appearances for casinos following their enshrinements.
I watched Pete late 70's to end of career. Great player, iconic, no doubt. But Hall of Fame plaque will never happen. Black Sox never getting in...Steroid era...I mean other players deserving not getting in, players getting in posthumously...some get in that shouldn't even get a whiff of the hall or even on the ballot. You see the disgusting irony?
The asterisk is him not having a plaque but having his equipment there. He AGREED TO HIS BAN. He VIOLANTED the very well known written rules regarding betting and he lied about it for like two decades. Why should he be inducted?
CAREER OPS+ OF 118 IS NOT GOOD FOR AN AVERAGE OR WORSE ATHLETE (defense, base running)... Andruw Jones has an OPS+ 111 AND played elite defense... Rose is a great player, and nobody talks about Jones???
The rules are the rules. It doesn't matter if he bet on baseball or not. To risk putting yourself at the mercy of the gamblers should be a career death sentence.
![F.HERO Ft. JSPKK x ลำไย ไหทองคำ x M-PEE - ไม่สนิทบิดหมด (Thai Riders Anthem) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kPJZ0UihBfk/mqdefault.jpg)
I don’t care . His career happened and the numbers are there . That can’t be denied . Rest in peace, Charlie Hustle . 🙏🏼
,,👍agree. They can throw all the stones they want at Pete, but they can't erase his accomplishments, honors, victories and the joy he brought to the fans who saw him play.
@@Amick44can’t erase the minors he’s been with either and I’m not talking about baseball…
@@Crymetyme006 oh I know there's some facts there, well you're going to have to scratch a few other names off as well, then.
@@Amick44 then scratch those names to.
I think the lifetime ban should include the hall of fame ban. The damage to the game outweighs the accomplishments.
I was a kid in the Philly area in the late 70s and 80s when Rose was there. After games at the Vet many of us kids waited for the players to come out and we would ask for autographs. There was one player -- and only one player -- who always stopped to sign autographs and chat with us -- Rose.
How much did he charge you??? :)
Makes sense, he notoriously reeeaaally loves kids
Especially if there were young girls there for him to molest.
You can't have a legit art museum without a Picasso.
How true, Mr Baseball pete rose
@@johncreech6617 yes you can…a degenerate gambler is a degenerate gambler…rules are rules…and disgusting lying human beings are disgusting lying human beings….he had quite a few years to come clean…he waited and waited….just like he will be waiting outside that door of the hall of fame for eternity…..quite a appropriate legacy…will teach kids quite a bit….grow up.
When you consider what today's players are merely suspended for (not banned) and considering that every conceivable aspect of American sport is dominated by betting/gambling, it's absolutely ridiculous that Pete Rose is not in the Hall of Fame
Your 1st sentence is incorrect.
They just indefinitely banned a player not that long ago
Players, Mangers, Umps...other officials still can't gamble on baseball games.
So players are allowed to bet on games now? No? Because it's still the cardinal rule you don't violate.
Oh, and Roberto Alamor is permanently ineligible. Go ahead and look up what he did. The consequences for violating actions today are way more severe than they were for similar infractions back in the day.
I stand by my comment, which references American sport, including baseball. Illegal drug use/doping, assault, illegal carry/possession of a firearm, and gambling/betting. These are all things professional athletes have been suspended for (not banned) and were allowed to return to their respective leagues. I understand some athletes have been permanently banned from their sports, I'm saying outright bans are few and far between, suspensions (sometimes with pay) are far more likely. In today's America, doping, assault, and illegal firearm possession are far worse to me than betting on games
Johnny Bench told Dan Patrick that Rose WAS offered a second chance but Rose refused to make the required lifestyle changes. This conflicts with Dan Patrick's theory that Rose's alleged gambling as a player was the point of no return for reinstatement.
If Pete refused to make required lifestyle changes. Then how would he have a chance to be reinstated?
Agreed.
The second chance was not for reinstatement. It was for Hall of Fame eligibility.
😢 Rest in peace, Pete Rose. I must give and show respect to Pete Rose, the player, instead of judging the man. He was a player who put forth the effort, every time he was on the field. One is hard pressed to find his drive in many players today. To wait until now, when Pete Rose can not smile and accept it, is a crime against him. Rest in Respect
Pete was a PDFile for what he did with that 14 year old girl. Oh and he's not getting in the Hall btw, he's PERMANENTLY ineligible - death doesn't change that.
Now that Rose has died it's time for MLB to lay all the cards on the table and tell everything they know about whatever Rose did that caused his ban.
@@messagesend8239 Per the agreement that Rose signed they probably cannot. Risk being sued by his estate
Violated Rule 21, Dowd Report, MLB being told by SI that they were digging into a story of Rose and his gambling, Rose signing a paper accepting his ban for life cause of the overwhelming evidence against him.
No freaking way. He bet on baseball as a MANAGER. There are reports that he bet against his team. Even if he didn't do that, you can't bet. Especially now, when sports gambling is becoming huge... You have to draw a red line. The threat to the game that widespread gambling poses is no joke.
I love pete rose. He bet on baseball knowing the rules. He decided his fate
Amen buddy
Yes, but still should be in the HOF. Banishment from the game is what should have been the punishment.
@@HankFinkle11 Hall of Fame voted to exclude tho permanently ineligible shortly after he got banned from MLB. 2 separate bans.
@HankFinkle11 hall of fame is an honor not for rule breakers
@@noName-kn1lx He paid his debt! In this country we temper justice with mercy! Your original post is an oxymoron! JMO1
Bob is so right! Pete should be in. HOF. RIP…. Best baseball player I ever saw! ⚾️
Yeah, he should be in but it's his own fault that he's not. All he had to do was express ANY regret and apologize right away and he's in before 2000. Instead, he mercenarily tries to monetize the apology to sell a book. It's all sad but he wasn't a victim. I can't remember which former teammate said it but he was too wrapped up in his "Charlie Hustle, macho, toxic masculinity" stereotype. To me, sometimes the bravest words a man can utter are "I'm sorry". Too bad that the "never apologize" mindset is often praised.
Costas is right on this one. HOF is a place to celebrate the game, it is a museum. Fact that they do not have Pete Rose or Joe Jackson in the HOF is missing huge part of the games history. I believe they did not let Rose in out of spite and by keeping him out it keeps people talking about the HOF - ie it is better for their business. Always follow the money.
I’m glad the HOF held fast. ALL who cheats should be held accountable. Kids emulate these privileged athletes so there is a responsibility for them to fulfill their “role model”status whether they like it or not.
then ban mlb itself for creating a system where one team can spend many times more money to sign the players it wants than the other teams. that's called cheating...
Justice can be tempered with mercy. Thank God!
Completely agree with Bob
He is a HOF player
RIP #14. HOF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Betting as a manager is actually worse than betting as a player. A manager can leave a pitcher in too long to win a bet. A player would always be going all-out for the win, I would think, with no real chance to hurt the team if he bet on his team to win. My take is contrary to what most would think, but it feels like it has not been fully discussed by others. The natural reaction is to say that betting as a player is worse, but baseball is a solitary game. Each player can only interact with himself, and if a player bet on his team to win, I don't see where there could be conflict. Pete betting as a manager is far worse. I think be bet as both a player and a manager, but I feel that most people's hot takes on the matter are backwards.
Bob, I understand your angle. you always wax poetic about the history of the game. But it is quite clear what the signs of says in every clubhouse. “You can’t bet on baseball”
Costas finally says something I agree with.
He broke the #1 rule, betting on baseball. Sorry to say but he should never be in the HOF.
Ugh, NO. He was asked to be contrite by the old commissioner before even being considered to have the ban lifted. He was still arrogant as hell about it. Gambling on the sport you play and manage in should be an automatic no entry into any historic hall of fame which should be an HONOR to be in. He didn't make a real apology. That's why he was never considered again.
Agree.
I agree.
Well…that AND the whole alleged statutory rape thing…
So that's why most MLB stadiums have a sports book on site, right?
You are so correct. He was an arrogant jerk who never stopped gambling; what's worse, he openly cavorted around with teenage girls! Pete Rose was a great baseball player, but that was the only thing great about him. Other than that, he was a first class jerk. Bob Costas is too!
Bud Selig made it a condition that anyone coming forward to be a commissioner of baseball had to agree not to reinstate Pete Rose.
That tie to Bud Selig has to be broken then at least postumously Pete Rose can get into the hall of fame.
4,256 hits - Put an asterisk next to Pete Rose's plaque saying that he bet on baseball but put him in the Hall of Fame, enough Bud Selig.
The Hall is about accomplishments. Pete is on the top of the hits mountain. He was a champion. He deserved to get in. Miss me with him hurting “the integrity of the game, brought to you by Draft Kings” bs. I’m on the other side of Dan on this one. Of course Bud “came across” like there was more, he had it in for Pete. I’ll take Costas’ word on this one over Dan’s bash fest with Bud Selig.
He broke the cardinal rule, repeatedly, as a player and manager, for years. He made his bed, now he can lay in it
By definition, he should be able to get into HOF. His ban was a lifetime ban.
Permanently ineligible. Hof is a separate ban
MLB enforced their rules and they had a right to.
💯
Rich people are petty and cruel about rules they devise.
If there was a Finance HOF for rich people. None would be allowed in. They ALL broke the rules to be rich.
Truf
People are petty and cruel. You don't need the rich part or what it's about.
@@Bibbo8844hdbks The richer someone gets the less empathy they have. You might want to read the work of sociologist Paul Piff.
Look up the Monopoly experiment.
No, Bob. You are incorrect. Pete Rose knew the rules against betting on baseball. He not only got caught red handed, he lied about it for decades. Not only did he constantly call his bookie from the clubhouse phone, he wrote a check to his bookie! He never came clean until he had a book to promote.
If you put Pete Rose in the HOF, you have to put “Shoeless Joe” Jackson in there, too. 😎
And Buck Weaver.
They belong in there.
No sir. Joe was paid to throw a game, regardless of his effort in that game/series. Pete bet as a manager on his team to win. Different. Pete's playing career belongs in the Hall.
@@joshuamervis Even his own teammates said he took no money. And his stats show he did not throw the series. Imo mob did to him for simple payback
@@joshuamervisWrong. Jackson took no money. He had knowledge of the plan and didn’t tell anyone.
hall of fame needs PETE ROSE 🌹
Good lord, I'm agreeing with Bob Costas ... will wonders never cease ...
I'm a huge Costas fan - especially about baseball - but seriously which is more likely? That there's no evidence Pete Rose bet on baseball while he was a player, or that Rob Manfred actually cared enough to find out? Also - that little allegory about the kid? That fictional conversation should be the dad telling the kid that he watched this great baseball player who isn't there because he thought he was above the rules.
Very well said.
Exactly. Played the game like you want it to be played but he literally gambled it away and let his friends/supporters linger out there for over 10yrs lying on his behalf (believing his innocence claims).
@@markjackson6134 He was a great player I'm sure. But he didn't play the game the way I would want it to be played. He ruined a catcher's entire career when he ran over him in an all-star game. Seriously, what kind of player/person would think it's okay to do that in an exhibition game? Beyond his playing days and his career as a manager, Pete was by many accounts a jerk. He wasn't contrite at any point about what he did unless it benefitted him. HIs comments earlier this year comparing his situation to Ohtani's were (at the very least) borderline racist, he felt the need to denigrate Ichiro's accomplishments because he was threatened by the idea that another guy may have even been suggested to have had more hits playing professional baseball, and on and on. It's always so interesting to me how many people are desperate to advocate for guys like Bonds or Rose. Both tarnished their own legacies and did so with a middle finger to everyone in the sport. Pete LITERALLY signed his own death warrant from the sport and then wanted it reversed later. Why should MLB be required to take a high road for a guy who broke the cardinal rule of baseball when Pete refused to do the same for them all those years? He even repeatedly lied about it. They've never denied his accomplishments, his talent, or anything else. They just don't see him as a fitting representative for the sport. And given how flagrantly he did it, what should he have realistically expected?
@@CodemanAmerica I meant minus that act in the allstar game and jumping on a 2nd baseman or SS in the playoffs, I believe? There's also reports of him (and bad quotes from him about it) with underage females. But he did play hard always. I respect that. But that's about it.
@@CodemanAmerica Wrong. Read the newspaper stories at the time. It was a totally clean play. Fosse was blocking the plate without having the ball. First, this is illegal in baseball. Second, if the game was meaningless, then Fosse should definitely not be doing it. Rose did nothing wrong versus Fosse. Fosse did the wrong and illegal thing, and got hurt because of it. If Rose would have slid, he would have risked breaking his leg -- because Fosse was blocking the plate wearing shin guards. As it was, Rose injured his thigh/knee and missed three games. Fosse didn't miss any games.
You have to follow the rules, no matter who you are. That's the example that has to be set. We stopped doing that, which explains a lot of what's going on today.
He was one of a kind, Charlie Hustle. I didn't like what he did to Fosse and to a lightweight Harrelson, but I admire his talent and accomplishments. He took a bite out of the apple, knowing the consequences. May he Rest in Peace.
I totally disagree with Costas. Pete bet on baseball. That particular rule from the rule book is and has always been posted (since 1919) on the way out of every major league clubhouse. There is not excuse. I grew up in Cincinnati during the Big Red Machine era and worked for them when Pete returned to the Reds. I continue to say that Pete is the player that made the absolute most of his abilities - no one can even come close to that in the history of the game. But Pete was also the only star from the Big Red Machine that wasn't a nice guy. Much of that comes from his using a chip on his shoulder to drive himself. He thought he was bigger than baseball. He refused to admit he gambled on baseball when given the opportunity - he lived with those consequences.
He had the numbers for the hall of fame so why risk it all on gambling??? He was a gifted athlete but not too bright.
I have been saying the same thing for years. If the numbers don't matter then put Bo Jackson in the H.O.F in Baseball ,and while were at it put him the Football. H.O.F.as well. Bonds and Rose not being in makes it more of joke than a true measure of greatness
if you let rose in then you might as well have no rules. go back years and start with joe jackson.
You can't let Pete in without Joe Jackson, too. And that's not going to happen. We may never know the full story with either one, but especially Jackson because it was so long ago. Separating fact from fiction there is impossible now. Baseball had a serious gambling problem then, with many teams and many players; the White Sox simply were the ones that got busted and made examples of to try to stop the problem.
@@thehaughtcorner Not just a gambling/throwing games. It was run by the mob. Last thing they wanted was a return to that.
The irony of your statement is the reason Rose was banned for life bc of gambling was bc of Joe Jackson and his fellow Black Soxs threw the WS in 1919. This led to the most important rule in MLB, NO GAMBLING.
Sorry Pete was awesome but I am glad they kept him out. It is a shame though to see all the betting commercials and all the spn bet apps etc
I can get on board with letting everyone in to tell the story of baseball. Not if it’s picking & choosing who you like & don’t like.
Pete Rose gambled ON GAMES HE MANAGED! NO COOPERSTOWN FOR ROSE!
Most people don't get it about Rose. There is 1 unforgivable act in MLB, betting on baseball. After the Black Sox 1919 WS, MLB was a hairs breath from ending. The penalty is known. There's no vagary. Gamble on MLB and you're done. MLB was never going to let him in while he was alive. MLB was never going to allow him to receive the adulation and credit he rightfully deserved. Now that he is dead, MLB will put him in.
I both believe that Pete Rose should be in the Hall of fame AND reject the defense that when he bet on his team he only bet on his team to win…. The reason for the second part is that a manager can choose to load his line up for an important game, and then hope to coast through a less important game….. more than any other major team sport.
And while it may be out there but i have never read an article where someone has examined his coaching decisions and concluded that he never “robbed peter to pay paul” to give himself the best chance possible on games he bet on, then coasted on a couple of games before or after.
Pete received way more notoriety and likely made more money because of the controversy surrounding his exile than he would have if they had put him in with the asterisk or note on his plaque about being banned. Rose was always unrepentant, always arrogant about it. He only feigned a small measure of contrition and admitted what we all, already knew when he was hocking his biography. He embarrassed the game and took its caretakers as well as the fans for fools. In the end Pete Rose screwed Pete Rose.
I believe that nobody wanted to be the one to make him eligible. Although I think some believed he should’ve been in. I remember before Selig took over and they talking about the next Commish. One of the sticking points was would that person make Rose eligible. Very interesting
He had a "lifetime" ban. I agreed with it. And now he's served it.
He belongs in the HOF. Now is the time.
1) He knowing signed an agreement calling for a permanent ban, my feeling is he signed so further transgressions weren’t released.
2) Betting on your team may sound noble but it influences the way he’d manage.
3) When he finally came clean it was self motivated he was never contrite in my opinion.
4) Even after so call apologizing he made statements that made a mockery of it.
While he was a great player he broke the golden rule and you can’t tell me he didn’t wait until he was a manager to start betting on baseball.
For my money I’m placing Jackson, Bonds and Clemons in before Pete.
Betting on your team influences the way you manage? Like trying to win? Like what anyone should be doing as a manager? Number 3 and 4 are your personal feelings and irrelevant, no offense. He was a HOF player. Not a HOF manager. Separate the two. If he bet as a player, that should have been the reason for the ban, not stating you bet on your team to win as a coach. No one even cares about that.
@@ChiliPeppers246484 Say for example he loses a bet that had 20,000 on. His next game he bets on to make up for changes lineup to give him a better shot at winning that bet. No way to guarantee either way true but with his history of lying it is highly likely he did just that
@@charlesdoyle3630 If you are betting to win, you are betting to win. Now as soon as you do one to lose, that is a completely different situation. Now he may destroy his pen or something to win which may set them up to lose the next couple games following, but please also realize this isnt todays era of situation baseball. Back then they pretty much rolled the ball out and let the best players play.
If you want him in the hall than become one of the committee members and make it happen
I admire Rose immensely. But why have rules if you’re not gonna enforce them? I agree with Costas for the first time ever when he said steroids harm the game more than gambling.
I am no fan of Bob Kostas. I think he has a good understanding of baseball. But needs to read the US Constitution more often.
That said, on this point, I agree with him. Pete Rose was a truly great baseball player. a lot of young players today could learn that baseball is a game of hustle, and he was Mr. hustle. I think he has done far less than a lot of people who have tried to destroy the game with steroids, etc.
Rest in peace, Pete. We love to watch you play. You were truly one of the best.
He will get in eventually now. Its like Moses & the promisland.
Taking steroids is actual cheating. Those players should be banned.
All of Pete’s accomplishments are in the HOF,there will not be a bust in there for Pete’s likeness.🤷♂️
The idea that it's hypocritical because the MLB gets money from gambling companies is insane. Context is everything. It doesn't matter how many alcohol adverts you see, if you go on probation and part of the conditions on your probation is that you can't drink alcohol, you have to accept it. If you breach those conditions, you go to jail. Those are the rules you have to live with.
It doesn't matter who CAN bet, players and coaches CANNOT bet.
That said, he needs to be in the Hall of Fame, there's no other way.
the commissioners blame Rose for Giamatti's death. That is the reason why he is not in.
It probably hastened it, but stress of that kind won't kill you decades earlier. He probably should have been in, although he should also admitted earlier. I still think he should get in after his death, he doesn't know what is going on know, doing right has no end.
@@D.D.-ud9zt true story. My friend played baseball at Yale. As a freshman he scored from first base and a double. He was winded and at the top of the dugout some guy was smoking a small cigar. My friend said “ who is the asshole smoking a cigarillo. Another player said its the president of Yale. My friend said oops. Giamatti was a chain smoker of cigarillos. Chain smoking is not good for you.
@@Gnofg Lol I'm a chainsmoker, wonder if I'll live longer.
No h is not in because the HOF does not want him, nor do the voters. The MLB has zero to do with the HOF. The HOF is totally separate from the MLB. The HOF decides who is and is not eligible. The HOF has not only decided that all banned players are not eligible, but they have also decided that players that they think were doping are also not eligible. For example, with zero actual evidence they have banned Barry Bonds. Why is he banned, because the voters have decided he is guilty, and will never vote him in. The HOF could make Rose eligible today, and no way are the voters ever gonna vote him in. Several HOF voters including Bench have said they' never vote for Rose to get in the HOF. They look at it as he broke the number one rule posted in ever clubhouse, so he is never getting in. Same reason why the 1919 White Sox players are never getting in.
@@Gnofg if giamatti simply had a heart attack and not passed on, would he have considered being banned from cigarillos for life fair? i realize pete's situation and the commisioner's aren't the same and i have no particular grudge against bart but the twisting of the knife and the need for mercy costas discusses here and elsewhere should have been doled out.
The part about feeling like it's twisting the knife if Rose is inducted posthumously, I agree if it's short term (5 years or less after death) or on the anniversary of his death no matter how long he's been dead. But I would disagree with the twisting the knife expression the longer it goes after he's dead.
The Hall of Fame is its own entity that can do whatever it wants.
Bob is right
Bob is right. you can’t put him in now without it looking absolutely shallow. just keep him out, real ones know who he is
Bob Costas has forgotten more baseball than most of us will ever know, but I'm with Dan on this one. His closing comment was amazing.
The induction ceremonies at the HOF are not an official MLB function anyway. And I agree with Bob Costas. Putting Pete in now would be an insult to him in NOT letting him go in when he was alive. And MLB is really grandstanding when it comes to Rose's gambling. They have gambling ads all over the place and promote gambling like drinking water.
@@docadams7099 Those are for the fans period. You can still get suspended permanently if you are affiliated with baseball if caught gambling on. Now I hate the gambling bullshit yes but they just recently did just that to a player.
@@charlesdoyle3630 But MLB puts the temptation out there. Besides, players are fans of the game, too. It's like Budweiser famously coming out against drunk driving. "Drink a little, but don't drink too much" when they do a volume business and clearly profit from sales.
Pete WILL be inducted in the Hall now that he's dead. They didn't want him to give a speech. He was bitter and always unpredictable. Greatest PLAYER all time. He played on artificial surfaces his entire career that took a greater physical toll. Ge never played as a D.H. He played against tougher N.L. pitching his entire career. If Pete would of played on grass and D.H.'d his last years in the league he would of had 5,000 hits and played to age 50! His unreal career numbers are understated. He signed a LIFETIME ban. That's over now.
Make it make sense: after you see the stats I type how could Shoeless Joe Jackson have been in on the supposed fix of the 1919 World Series ?! Joe led both teams players in batting average, he set a World Series record at the time for base hits, he hit the only HR of the series (an inside the ballpark HR!) He was errorless-had a 1.000 fielding percentage for the entire 8 gm series. Like I said MAKE IT MAKE SENSE!
It’s time for MLB to own up that somehow a huge mistake was made in the investigation of the 1919 World Series that banned .356 lifetime hitter Shoeless Joe Jackson from MLB.
Pete should never go into the HOF
The Baseball Hall of Fame is like a club. Not every player from the past can have a plaque. The MLB has not erased any records. The history of the game of baseball is present in the Baseball Hall of Fame museum.
Just a point of context for those who might not already know: the HOF is NOT owned or controlled by MLB. It is an independent organization NOT institutionally bound in any way by the rules/regulations/decrees/disciplines of MLB. The HOF alone controls its own mandates and by-laws for admission on its voting ballots. The HOF has NO obligation to abide or even consider any MLB declarations signed by Rose. The HOF surely has a friendly/mutually-cooperative relationship with MLB, but HOF can place Rose's name on its ballots anytime it so chooses without any consultation/approval from MLB. So MLB has NO legal/contractual power to keep Rose out of the HOF. That choice is solely on the HOF.
@aiavecchia They voted not long after he was ruled permanently ineligible by MLB to exclude anyone that was banned. So there are 2 separate bans. One by MLB and one by HOF
@@charlesdoyle3630 , Understood, the HOF was influenced by the MLB ban ... but can unilaterally reverse/alter its action if ever it so chooses. MLB and it's Rose banishment cannot/do not dictate HOF administrations. The HOF is solely accountable for Rose's absence in its Hall of Plaques.
@@aiavecchia Have to hold a special vote on. And they have not done that for anyone. Not even Shoeless Joe. It will never happen
@@aiavecchia I would also argue they would do if they removed him from permanently ineligible list. MLB will not do that
Pete Rose bet on his team when he was the manager. Shame on him
He cheated in an unforgivable way. Great player. But the decision was correct.
Pete Rose should be in Cooperstown
I'll never watch another game, not because of Pete Rose but because of mlb and hall of shame!
He even bet on The Reds as a player/manager. That's low. Charlie Hustle got what he deserved.
I won't spend a dime on anything MLB until Pete Rose is in the hall of fame.
I still think he should get in.
Agreed, baseball should be ashamed of what they did to Pete Rose. This game was sponsored by Draft Kings, sign up now for your first free bet of $20. Smh…
They should put him in right now. They can no longer punish him! Now their just punishing the fans enough already.
"People who poisoned the records books by taking steroids probably damaged the game more than Pete Rose ever damaged the game, they are on the ballot"... so therefore Pete Rose should be on the ballot - listen to yourself Bob Costas.
Pete Rose is/was the game of ⚾...R.I.P. 🙏🏼🕊#14
It is much more likely that O. J. Simpson’s bust will be removed from Canton before Pete Rose’s plaque will be installed in Cooperstown.
And the chances of either of these happening are none to less than none.
Great player but a sign is posted in every clubhouse no gambling….you can have sex, do drugs etc, but no gambling
Through the 60's and 70's Pete could be seen at Lebanon Raceway in Lebanon Ohio.
Gambling is fine just not on baseball…
If Rose does get in, it'll be out of spite.
so now he is no longer Banned! put him on the ballot !!!!!!
If they let Pete in then Joe Jackson should go in
They are called rules…..act accordingly.
As long as people remember baseball, they're going to remember Pete Rose. Being in the HOF is irrelevant. It's just like Lance Armstrong: his name can be removed from the record books, but nobody will forget who he was. "It still happened." No HOF can change that.
Owners of the Phillies busted Pete Rose betting on baseball in LA during playoffs. Betting on his own team. Now you let him off and more players would be betting on baseball. He learned a lesson !!!
wrong. it's one thing to bet on baseball and get caught...it's a whole other thing to lie about it for decades when you and everyone else knows your caught.
Pete Rose said he always bet on his team to win it's a lot worse if you've been on your team to lose he wanted to win he bet on them to win I ain't got no problem with that
Who cares if he bet they all bet
Why does Pete Rose get talked about more than Dikembe Mutombo? Does Dan Patrick have an infatuation with Pete Rose?
Dan is from Cincinnati and grew up a Rose/Reds fan. I believe it is more personal with him. Plus, I can vouch for this from the days when I hosted a call in radio show. If the calls were slow, mention Pete Rose or OJ Simpson and the phones would light up. You didn't have to do any more work after that.
Dan did chat about Dikembe, and holds him in very high regard.
Let's face it, professional sports are largely a racket. The initial momentum for Major League Baseball and the NFL was gambling. Nevertheless, Rose broke the rules and was rightly punished. As Costas said the cautionary tale is obvious with Rose's banishment. If the Hall of Fame is going to feature Pete Rose memorabilia, his plaque should be installed too. Rumor has it that Rose did gamble on baseball as a player, and I have also heard that this suspicion might have factored in the Cincinnati Reds losing him to free agency in 1978. I also heard that Rose's problems in 1989 had something to do with him stiffing certain high-powered bookies, so rather than breaking his thumbs or legs, they decided to ruin his reputation and career. Of course, this having not been established should not be a factor into whether Rose is ever elected to the Hall posthumously.
The bottom line is election to the Hall of Fame is not a canonization for sainthood. It's an acknowledgement of a player's extraordinary performance on the field. Pete Rose was the most entertaining player of his era and probably rates among the top 10 players in Major League Baseball history.
Dan you talk about sports ball. Let’s be honest what you “accomplish” really doesn’t matter very much for real life. It’s just entertainment. That said Hit King should have been in the hall decades ago. If he’s not I want. Cobb out for his assault and beating of fans during games & DiMaggio out for abusing Marilyn Monroe. I want Landis and Yawkey out for them keeping blacks out for decades.
Why does he HAVE to been in the hall?
If they are letting a Japanese player continue to play. After his buddy bet and embezzlement of his money no way should the best be kept out . Charlie hustle was and is one of if not the best to ever play period
I was disappointed that Bobby Brown didn't do it . His son Pete is our family MD. And they are great people . I really thought he would lift the ban
3:13: I know that Roberto Alomar was recently placed on Major League Baseball's permanently ineligible list (not for gambling though) years after he was enshrined in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays were banned (for a while) from working in MLB after they both started doing appearances for casinos following their enshrinements.
You cannot bet for or against your team.
I watched Pete late 70's to end of career. Great player, iconic, no doubt. But Hall of Fame plaque will never happen. Black Sox never getting in...Steroid era...I mean other players deserving not getting in, players getting in posthumously...some get in that shouldn't even get a whiff of the hall or even on the ballot. You see the disgusting irony?
RIP #14....PUT HIM IN THE HOF !!!!!
The asterisk is him not having a plaque but having his equipment there. He AGREED TO HIS BAN. He VIOLANTED the very well known written rules regarding betting and he lied about it for like two decades. Why should he be inducted?
CAREER OPS+ OF 118 IS NOT GOOD FOR AN AVERAGE OR WORSE ATHLETE (defense, base running)... Andruw Jones has an OPS+ 111 AND played elite defense... Rose is a great player, and nobody talks about Jones???
The rules are the rules. It doesn't matter if he bet on baseball or not. To risk putting yourself at the mercy of the gamblers should be a career death sentence.