Review of Cheap 500W Air Cooled CNC Spindle with Power Supply and Speed Regulation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2024
- Detailed Review of 500W Air Cooled CNC Spindle with Power Supply and Speed Regulation
00:00 Introduction
03:03 Close look at Power Supply w/Schematic
09:10 Spindle RPMs and Power Consumption
12:34 Noise test in dB
13:36 Power Consumption Comparison w/500W Trim Router
14:22 Runout Testing
16:22 Electrical Noise Test
17:59 Mounting the spindle in CNC machine
20:18 CNC Routing wood test
22:06 CNC Engraving Circuitboard test
24:37 Conclusion - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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Detailed review of a popular affordable 500W Air Cooled Spindle Set including power supply. It's a bit of a mixed bag, so I'll let you chose whether this will work for you.
Follow up: th-cam.com/video/BU1FQxib6w8/w-d-xo.html
@Paolo Liverani Hi Paolo, send me an email on the address I have under About.
Cheers,
Jake
i used one of these cheap spindles on my little CNC machine for years.
First thing you need to do:
1) design, and mill a new front bearing housing to fit the motor.
2) Replace the front bearings with angular contact bearings (this is why you redesigned the front bearing plate to accommodate the new bearings, and to pre-load them)
3) replace the cheap plastic fan on the back with one cast, or machined out of aluminum, lock-tight, or mill a small flat on the shaft, and set screw the fan in place
4) Balance EVERYTHING. balance the motor spindle with fan installed.
5) design an mill a new aluminum back plate and bearing housing. These typically come with rubber boots, which is just a terrible idea. You need your bearings to be firmly press-fit into place.
6) Check the amount of runout at the spindle, and the collet, and adjust the collet chuck as needed
If you do these things, the motor will actually serve you quite well on light duty machines, i wouldn't try to push anything hard with it, light depth of cut aluminum milling will be about the best you're going to get.
Hey thanks for your videos I just built a cnc machine and bought a 500w brushless spindle same vibration problem I just removed the fan made a big difference so I'll get it mounted back up with an external fan like you had and see what the performance is like. Thanks again you were a huge help!!
I'm really glad I found your channel - not only do I have the same CNC machine as you, I just bought the exact same spindle last week! I really enjoyed your full review (and the follow up video). I don't have as much vibrations as in your video, but I am going to remove the fan and relocate it like you have to see if it further improves. There seems to be some kind of harmonic vibrations though at just over half spindle speed and it interferes with the Y axis in my case, i.e. misses steps or I get motor chatter.
Very detailed; well done! The EMI test is nice
Really great video, it's quite silly that something that spins at 10k rpm isn't properly balanced from the factory, but your analysis and how to approach fixing such a fault is brilliant. Thanks for the upload!
Excellent review, I have same spindle 200w,300w with the same cheap PS, so after my 3r time I've got a 110v shock, I decided to look for some review, then came accross your video, it's very helpfull, I removed the PS governor and use my bench variable PS, hook up anf it's work fine , no more eclectrocution. thank's for your help.
Very good video, covered many facets of the motor and power supply.
Such a high quality video, thank you. I am a novice with much of the electronics but even I can tell it is quite dangerous so its good to get some good advice. Thanks
Fabulously helpful to me. Thank you!
Definitely the best inspection on this product, but power comment is absolute
Best review on this kit!
Hi nice video, I have an electrical question which is making me crazy: with the same spindle as the one of this video i experienced EMI, but i discovered that if i connect the power supply of the spindle to power source via an extension cord the EMI disappears. Have you an idea about how is this possible ? Hope you have time to reply :)
Very good review. I ended up with one of these from TwoTrees -- it was mounted inside a nice-looking enclosure, and I was given the same motor. Frankly I'm not too happy with the power supply; there outside is definitely not grounded correctly and I did have at least one arc flash trying to forcibly discharge the unit as I tried to figure out why it stopped working (long story). Something I discovered, though, is that connecting a relay to the on/off terminals DOES NOT WORK. TwoTrees did this so the CNC controller could turn off the motor, but I found that for some reason yet to be determined, the relay would stop working after one use. My working hypothesis is that the contacts got fused into the off position, but I'm still not sure why.
For those who get around to this comment, I'm still looking for an alternative, safer power supply. The motor itself is just fine.
cnc need controller use only small current, need external SSD relay not broken small controller own relay, working well spindle start/stop if use big external relay and controller small relay only give control signal to external relay. and some modification can use mach3 or linuxcnc PWM speed controller too in computer display.
Thanks foir the best review I've seen! Any recommendation for a better power supply without all those issues that is newbie-friendly? Mainly also having a way to add a potentiometer to change the speed without much hassle.
Thanks, it's not too bad as long as you are careful with the potentiometer and the connections. You could mount the whole power supply and potentiometer in a plastic box (or a metal box where you connect the box to earth ground) with some connectors, that is what I am planning to do. Alternatively the cheapest way to get the power supply isolated from the mains would be to add an isolation transformer, but a 500W isolation transformer will probably cost $50-100, so a bit expensive unless you are lucky and find a cheap 2nd hand one.
Cheers,
Jake
Very complete and interesting review. I have a diy cnc that's using a makita 3709 trimmer, Do you think one of these dc spindles can handle cutting and engraving some materials the same way the makita does? I work mostly with mdf, acrylic sheets and aluminum composite, and I'd like to upgrade with something a little better just for the noise
Hi, this spindle is less powerful than your Makita 3709 trimmer (I have the same trimmer) but I'd say it does well in most materials, but you might need to run it a bit slower than you would with your trim router. However when it comes to engraving and fine detail work, this spindle performs better than the Makita because it's got so little runout. I'd say if you are not in a hurry and you like a much quieter spindle then it's worth a try. You can always switch back to the Makita when you need more power for a project.
Cheers,
Jake
Hey man, do you have a measurement of the output shaft size that the collet is set screwed on with?
i have this spindle motor 4 years :D
Looks like the one I have. It was near impossible for my arduino+grbl shield to hold a wired usb connection with the laptop for more than a few minutes while the motor was running. Strangely though, when I tried using a bluetooth connection between the laptop and arduino it was fine, not a single dropout in 5 years.
Hello Chris... just wondering where you buried the 300 watt brushless spindle you once teased us with. Please do a review on it. It would be very much appreciated! There isn't a single review of the brushless version that I can find. Cheers.
Weird things happen in betwenn ground and vcc when connecting different power supply... without wiring looks that the electrical noises get isolated.
Thank's for this vidéo. I would like to know if it's possible to cut carbon fibre with it. Stéphan
Yeah 200-300W seems closer to reality, although its hard to find any sellers who aren't putting these super high numbers.
Been looking at upgrade spindles for my 3018. Was tossing up the pros and cons of the 48V and 100V ones. Now my mind is made up. Vbration doesn't come in to it - these 100V things are bl**dy lethal! No isolation from mains voltage and the only thing between your fingers and that voltage is some heat shrink?! 😲 No thanks. Thank you for saving me from a potentially dangerous mistake. A 48V spindle with a proper PSU is the (safe) way to go 👍
As usual superb. I also have MicSig oscilloscope, early model, they are superb company, recommend their products.
Don't want to make similar total disassembly, measurements review (for PV) of some lights and such that you could use later for shooting your next videos?
Thanks, yeah I love my Migsig scope, it is really good, I am planning to do a full review soon, but I can say I'm very happy using it.
@@TheStuffMade Love sometimes is irrational thing and you are still not happy (rationally, in the morning usually) :-)
Would you think it safe to ground the chassis or better to leave ungrounded when connecting mains?
Yes, I'd recommend grounding both the power supply chassis and the CNC machine itself.
Cheers,
Jake
Excellent stuff! I wonder if 500w is power required to stall the motor though.. Would be interesting to see consumption during an aluminum cut or with a brake attached. I bought my own but my router is a bit flimsy. Exact same issue with vibration from fan. I might print a new fan or balance the current one. Think this can make a really quiet machine at some point!
Thanks, yeah perhaps if the spindle is stalled it will consume 500W before melting down. But I don't believe it's a 500W spindle, I compared it to a 500W Makita trim router and the trim router feels like it's got a lot more power. I'll probably do a short follow up where I'll attempt to do something about the vibrations, it would be a much better spindle if it didn't vibrate so much.
Cheers,
Jake
yeah the power consumption will go through the roof under a heavy load.....
As for the fan, you could take it to a local machine shop and see what they'd charge for truing it up. It's a must because from the sounds in the video, it's bad enough to cause premature wear on the bearings.....
@@TheStuffMade no no no true, i has used makita router and de walt router small size and big router , makita 900W small router stall lot before than 500W air cool spindle, and 800W air cool spindle have lot lot more power than all router have, not stall speed if cut aluminium, router stall before than spindle motor.
I pulled the fan, mounted it in a model airplane propeller balancing stand and added drops of CA glue with accelerator to the inside of the shroud and easily achieved a perfect balance.
Good afternoon friend. Thanks for the video. Where is the ground on the power supply? thanks.
Hello, there is no ground on the power supply, but I'd recommend connecting earth ground to the metal case just for increased safety if anything shorts inside.
Cheers,
Jake
10:20 - Do you know any kind of spindle which does not vibrate?
Do you think it's possible to control the spindle speed via Adruino uno + CNC shild? instead of the Poti... because there are pwm ports on it.
Yes if you get the version of the power supply that takes a 0-10V input for speed control then it should be possible, check 0:42 in the video.
Cheers,
Jake
Hi can you explain how you connected the on/off to the board? thanks
You have to use a relay. If your control board got a 12V laser output, then use that to drive the relay coil and connect the relay switch to the on/off on the spindle power supply. Make sure to use a protection diode in reverse polarity across the relay coil otherwise you could damage the control board.
Cheers,
Jake
15:26 funny, I was going to say "I bet the fan is the source of the vibration"
Is it better to use a PC PSU?
I have a very similar looking unit that I'm having an issue with. Hopefully you can help me out!
I've been running this 500watt spindle for about 2 months and now when I plug it in, the spindle runs for a few seconds then it blows the fuse. I got a second spindle but kept the silver box but the replacement spindle is doing the same thing. Also it seems to now ignore the potentiometer. Even if I have it turned all the way down it runs a few seconds then blows the fuse. Any ideas?
you have main fuse too little, if spindle use free not use lot current but load and cuttung wood or metall current decline fast because have load lot more, you need change wires and main fuse biggest then not blow fuse. remember if change fuse biggest, need change this line wire gauge too biggest not burn wires. and house.
Had two of these now, both have burnt out after little use, even though doing light passes to keep loads low, notice brushes burn prematurely. Suppose you get what you pay for
It's a good point, brushed motors do require some maintenance and it's best to replace the carbon brushes before they wear out, otherwise it could damage the commutator, I'd expect you can run it for several 100s of hours before it's needed. You can take the spindle apart and service it to replace the carbon brushes, if you can't find the right size, just buy some that are bigger and sand them to size. It might also be a good idea to change the bearings with some decent quality sealed ones while it's apart.
Cheers,
Jake
I found the fan was causing vibrations so I pan it and touched with a scraper, then when I saw where the scapper hits, I put a very small chunck of folded tape on the opposite side as a counter weight and the vibration is 99% gone.
Sounds like a good method to balance the fan wheel.
I pulled the fan, mounted it on a model airplane propeller balancer, added drops of CA glue to the inside surface (with accelerator) and got it balanced up perfectly
Do you know what pwm chip used in this board? The one with 8 legs, Mine is blown up, i want to replace it.
I didn't make a note of what PWM controller it's using and mine is all packed up right now as I'm in the middle of moving, but maybe someone else can help.
Cheers,
Jake
Can this spin a 3 lbs propeller at 5800 rpms? I know a bit about the spindle and wattage. I just don't have one if that makes sense? It's the torque and air cooling that is appealing. The propeller is Carbon Fiber at 49inches total.
You'll need a much more powerful motor, probably at least 20-30 times the size for a 49" propeller depending on pitch. Plus the bearings and housing in this spindle are not designed for any continuous push/pull force.
Cheers,
Jake
Okay, thanks for replying back. So I take it you would suggest, not to put words in your mouth, a 220v or higher unit for this?
I get what you're saying but it's not even 3 pounds. I also do not need 5800 rpms on a constant or I hope ever if I can help it? Typically, 3200 to 3500 would be norm or possibly max. It's a carbon fiber propeller.
@@amc8118 I assume you mean the 3 lbs is the weight of the propeller, not the trust, I'd expect 100+ lbs of trust from a 49" propeller. I'd suggest looking elsewhere, usually small ultralight aircrafts using a propeller this size will use a gasoline powered engine with maybe 20-30 HP to save weight compared to an electric motor with batteries.
Cheers,
Jake
He has all 5 stars from this country. The propeller is $339.00. It's not a piece of crap and I've read carefully. Carbon Fiber is super strong and super light. Of course there's the mount etc. So probably 5 lbs in total. 2.866 pounds total propeller weight or 1.3kg. It's 49 inch 3 blade Carbon Fiber. This is why I'm asking. If this was wood or metal I already know the answer. If you pop in 49 inch 3 blade Carbon Fiber propeller you'll get the same result pretty much anywhere you look, as far as the weight. So now I believe you're understanding why I'm asking this question. If it was 100lbs I would never expect this to carry something like that? I'd check myself in somewhere if I was on that road. So for entire with screws and all necessary equipment let's say 10lbs to 11lbs. If you go back to my first message I mention the 3lbs I believe? It comes down to torque and rpms. I'm even putting solar panels on this plane to charge battery. 5800 rpm is max rpm for propeller. 100kg of thrust would be far more than enough. If I go over 100kg thrust I would be routing at 7000 feet or higher around a speed of 250 to 300 mph, the way this plane would be made. I'll show you plane design so you don't believe I'm out in LA LA Land more than you probably do already? Last thing, plane will weigh under 254 lbs empty weight. That means without me and the crap I bring along.
What thermal camera do you use?
This is the Seek Thermal Pro, it's pure thermal and got a decent resolution plus a very high temperature range. I'm quite satisfied with the performance.
Cheers,
Jake
Hi would it be possible to share name or link for that small vice that holds potentiometer, thank you I have similar one but looks smaller and without sunction sticking thank you.
Yeah, I have a few of them, they're nice because they can stand on their own and they have these little knobs to hold round objects. I'm pretty sure I got mine from Aliexpress, try a search for "mini vice suction cup" that should return some results, they're cheap, just around $5 each.
Cheers,
Jake
@@TheStuffMade thank you, yeah mean while i found actually a few. Already ordered
20:30, can I please ask why it makes that "uh uh uh" sound? I bought this exact spindle myself and I don't know if it's the spindle or the rest of the cnc mill or the bit... because slowing down the feed doesn't help, the only thing that helps is reducing pass depth, which doesn't make sense to me...
It's called chatter, it's a common thing on CNC, Milling machines and Lathes. You can sometimes lower it by changing feed speed and rpms or try another bit with more or less flutes. However I think in this case it's mostly because the machine/material isn't stiff enough to prevent the vibrations.
@@TheStuffMade tysm
Hi I ve a problem whit power supply, it works intermittently and the green led blink, can you help me ?
It's hard to say exactly what the problem is but my best guess is a bad solder joint, try take the power supply apart, but please be careful, the large capacitor can hold a deadly voltage so make sure it's discharged and everything is disconnected from the mains. Then check for bad solder joints on the bottom of the board, especially the larger though hole components. Sometimes it's hard to see and it's a good idea to just reflow all the through hole solder joints.
Cheers,
Jake
Rec for a better spindle for a hobbyist? One that is not an arm and a leg?
It really depends on what cnc you have and how you use your cnc the most, like do you do wood, aluminum or engraving, how important is runout etc.
Cheers,
Jake
@@TheStuffMade At this point wood and softer materials only ans a bit of runout not a concern. Suggestions?
@@terry2346 In that case using a trim router will be a good choice. You can add an SCR regulator/dimmer for speed control and a solid state relay to switch it on/off from software. I use this myself sometimes for wood projects. They are quite noisy and you'll be limited to 1/4" bits, but the performance is excellent and you really can't beat the value for money.
Cheers,
Jake
Could you tell me how to power this motor with a decent power supply please the unit like yours is making my CNC crash randomly
Hello, first make sure your CNC is connected to Earth Ground (including the CNC controller board and the Spindle power supply), that might solve your problem with crashes. Alternatively you could power the spindle from a 500W+ Variac with a rectifier on the output, just make sure you keep the voltage to the spindle below 110V. It might also be possible to use a triac dimmer, again with a rectifier on the output and keeping the voltage below 110, that would be cheaper than a variac, but I can't say how well it would work.
Cheers,
Jake
@@TheStuffMade Thanks for your reply Jake I have everything grounded. I have seen a video of someone using a 48V variable output power supply and he suggests it works fine and shows the revs at around 11,000? Although checking the dc output on my supply( the same as yours) with the rotary control full on its reading 131VDC so what would your opinion be? No responsibilities on you but my knowledge is not great, would the 48volt Power supply still give me maximum speed? Thanks again Jake
@@spannerman4886 Hello, this version does require at least 110V for full RPM, I tried running the spindle from my 60V bench power supply and it probably ran at around 5000 RPM. I believe there is a 48V version available, that's probably the one shown in the video you saw. Unfortunately the power supply that comes with the spindle is made to be as cheap as possible and very noisy. However using something like a Variac to replace it will probably cost just as much as a new spindle.
Cheers,
Jake
@@TheStuffMade Thanks Jake that's a big help 👍🏼
I have an issue with driver of spindle 500W from China. When I switch on the spindle then it rotate only for a while (maybe half of one rotate). I use relay swicht it on. Did someone have similar problem? Maybe it easy to solve. :)
what can i use to filter that noise?
A common mode choke and a couple of capacitors will lower the noise going back out in the mains and perhaps grounding the chassis might help, but to really get rid of all the noise would require a lot of work. I'd recommend going with a different spindle/power supply if the noise is an issue.
Cheers,
Jake
very good review
if i can give 100 likes i will
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So it doent reach the 500 W. Same as mine
Yeah, I don't see any way this spindle could consume 500W continuously and survive.
Cheers,
Jake
@@TheStuffMade do you know any good spindle that can go any higher than 200 real W at least?
@@jaimerodriguez3864 If you mostly work in wood and don't care too much about runout, then I'd recommend getting a trim router for more power. I sometimes use the Makita one in this video when working in wood, but they do make a lot more noise.
Cheers,
Jake
@@TheStuffMade I was looking at the Makita RT0701C since the grabbing area was the smallest i could find but still, i would have to modify my 3018 prover spindle holder to use one of those and I dont know if the rails will supoort its weight of 3.9 lbs. I currently using the Genmitsu aluminum holder.
-Jaime
Wow! It's 110 watts consumption? If so, why even call it a 200-300 watt spindle?
normal used 230V power and then spindle wattege have double more.
you just not put enough load ) feedrate on milling cycle was way too low.
measuring idle power consumption in comparison wit Makita is not correct because it is different kind of motors. Makita is universal motor and this one is permanent magnet DC motor.
I'll change my mind if you show me an example of it consuming 500W continuously without stalling the motor or melting down because of the heat. It already reaches a temperature on the outside of 65+ degree C at ~100W, just think how hot it would get if it dissipated 500W continuously. I can smell the isolation burning on the windings already just thinking about it. lol
The comparison with the Makita is valid, a permanent magnet motor can be up to 5% more efficient for large motors, in this test that makes no difference.
Cheers,
Jake
LOL just fit the makita
The Makita is great for rough work, but it's useless for precision work, too much runout plus It only takes 1/4" bits.
i just fight my makita to trash because cheap air cooled spindle have lot lot better, more power cut more biggest chip and noise have less lot in garage my ear .makita have worst spindle to any cnc dont use.
Just a note: you are probably familiar with other videos.
1) consider balancing the fan
2) consider replacing the internal rubber bearing seat at the output end.
This is all typical Chinese crapola, you buy kits which you must evaluate and repair,...
{ yes I am guilty of buying this stuff also }
However, as per your video I will NOT be buying the power supply,... that is really terrible.
Do you have a notion of how they claim this is a 500w motor?
Stall torque ??
plastic body? wouldve skipped the moment I saw that.
That is incorrect. Where did you get that from?
Chinese death trap!!!
After about 120 ~250 hours they will die.
Which part died in yours? The motor or the power supply? As it is a DC motor you will need to replace the carbon brushes at some point, preferably before the commutator gets torn up.
la causa delle vibrazioni è la ventola, basta metterla sul tornio e bilanciarla asportando materiale, segna una spia col pennarello e porta via. Le vibrazioni spariscono quasi del tutto sempre che il mandrino sia fissato perfettamente all'albero, ma normalmente viene installato in modo corretto. Ogni volta che cambi la fresa puoi utilizzare la vecchia ventola, per sicurezza controlla che si adatti bene all'alberino.
sul legno si usano frese massimo due denti.