TRRS 477: "Whoops!" CSX Freight Train Stalls on Grade
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2024
- Aug 13, 2016 EAST SAUGATUCK, MI -- Underpowered trains in the rain on a hill: not a recipe for success.
Follow along with this misadventure, as we capture CSX's Q326 stalling in real time on a rainy Michigan summer morning. The train, at 9200 tons, was already pushing the limits on this hill, the ruling grade for the run, and the rain didn't make it any easier!
CSX Q326
Consist:
- UP 6812 [AC44CW]
- CSX 8880 [SD40-2]
- 88 cars [Mixed]
Location/Time:
- (1) CSX Grand Rapids Sub, East Saugatuck, MI, 55th St xing, on 8-13-16 from 07:46 to 07:55 EDT
- (2) East Saugatuck, 136th Ave xing, at 08:48
- (3) East Saugatuck, 55th St xing, from 09:57 to 10:18
- (4) Zeeland, Centennial St xing, at 13:05
- Grandville, along Chicago Dr, at 28th St overpass, at 13:33
(1) Stalls on the crossing at 55th St; (2) First Half double to the siding; (3) Grabbing the second half for the double; (4) Back together and underway with 10:10 recrew
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Videography Equipment:
-Primary: Sony PJ790 Camcorder
-Edited with: Cyberlink PowerDirector 13
People:
-Alex C: Owner, Producer and Narrator
Copyright 2016 Thornapple River Rail Series by Alex Christmas, All Rights Reserved
Being an engineer for 43 years my favorite saying was , you can lie to me about the tonnage , but you can’t lie to the locomotives
WHAT HAPPENED HERE?? I DO NOT UNDERSTAND?
@@tommythompsonsurfer Locomotives were not strong enough to make it up steep grade and rain slick tracks.
Well said!
In the days before computers, when clerks added up the tonnage, the yardmaster, just wanting to get the damn cars out of his yard, deliberately fudged the tonnage lower than it was. It was called "pencil-whipping" the tonnage, and the result was about the same, either a stalled train on the hill, or broken knuckles from the surging action.
Wow! I know I’m female but imho you had the dream job. Yes, I’m one of those nerdy girls who loves trains. I envy your career. I bet you’ve got stories to tell.
Train engineer: I wonder why there is a guy filming with a tripod.
~3 minutes later~
Train Engineer: I'm giving her all we got Captian!
Mac Omegaly too bad the trains don’t have Hill Assist to help them out 😂😂
they have it.. Without some form of traction control those powered wheels will wheelslip to the moon and beyond
Who decides how much power is required? Dispatch seems to have a smart-s answer. Not being a railroader it must be annoying to be in this position. Or is it only due to the rain?
@@bjjasper A rough estimate for the power required to go up an incline is P = v*M*(sin(theta) + crr*cos(theta)).
Where:
- v = Velocity
- M = Train's weight
- theta = Maximum grade = arctan(%Grade / 100)
- crr = Rolling resistance coefficient, typically 0.0025 worst case for railway wheels on rails, can be replaced by friction coefficient for sliding surfaces
Could do a better job explaining releasing sand onto the tracks for traction. Couldn’t see it in the visual. Great insight into railroading. An engineer told me the steam locomotives were used to help the diesels move the cars uphill. Also he mentioned closing all the doors to reduce wind resistance for speed.
I was a CSX ENGINEER for 43 years .I worked the great lakes division .Our bad ass hill was B.D at akron ohio . When we stalled on that hill and there was no one to shove us up which was 99% of the time The conductor would have to walk back and make a cut then he would ride the rear car until we got to a siding then shoved the cut into the siding go back tie on to the train pull up the train to the siding cut off go in get the head cut pull out shove back tie onto the train get the air make air test with my R.D.U release and go .bad part was if it happened in winter it would be really TUFF .and you cant blame the power bearue or how ever you spell it sometimes one of your engines would just break down.
this guy is like a professional sports commentator for trains
If you think this guy's good, check out the channel by the name of Distant Signal
@@watcha4me we don’t do that here never comment saying to go watch another channel and saying that this guy is worse
@@district2productions what the heck are you talking about? I'm recommending another channel for him to add to his viewing library! This video was great! So are the ones posted on Distant Signal... Soooooo have a nice day and pull the stick out of....
And who is "we" and where is "here"???
@@watcha4me we= Railfans here= a Railfan video
I imagine there was an amazing amount of cussing in the lead unit when the whole meghilla started rolling back. Mostly directed at whatever yardmaster gave them their paperwork.
I'm assuming that cussing started upon arriving at the job site and seeing only two locomotives available to him.
The train slowly coming to a stop, with all the creaks and pops, was mentally satisfying.
Train ASMR
😅
Goes to show you how long these things would take to roll to a stop without the brakes
Yeah, metal is stressed to the maximum, you have locomotive pulling on one side, and gravity on other.
Mentality satisfying maybe to some, (not all), rail "enthusiasts" who have their hands in their pockets playing with themselves most of the time.
“We should probably add another locomotive on here “
“Nah”
“It won’t make it up the grade “
“Hahaha yolo !”
There wasn't a grade there before. What gives???
(tonnage clerk)
Amateurs !
Damn, you can hear the couplings popping and cracking long before he finally stalled. That's a heavy loaded down sonofabitch.
Lex5576 they are lucky non gave way with that amount of weight.
It's irresponsible to load the couplings so heavily. They may be strong, but the one attached to the locomotive has to pull the weight of every single car behind it. They should've slaved a second locomotive in the middle of the train to pull the second half of the cars, or at least slaved one to the rear to push the last few cars.
@@deusexaethera These two locomotives would not be powerful enough to break a sound coupler knuckle even in dry conditions. However, there are indeed restrictions on how many units can be at the head end of a heavy train, especially in hilly or curvy terrain, and crews can (and do) replace coupler knuckles (the intentional weak link) when they occasionally break in service.
Very good video, excellent narration and no crappy music. Very impressed!
yessss..but you forgot the quality of the audio and the editing. well you did - no crappy music! All of which made it possible to fully appreciate the creaking in the cars as the stack slows down. the insane tension that is distributed along the entire length...
I like the no music approach. I've seen railroad video that got pulled due to some copyrighted music.
There are very few times that music adds to the enjoyment of a video like this. You can hear the ramping up of the diesels, the bucking of the drive trucks, the creaking of steel under tremendous load. This video got it all, and yes, the narration and editing was spot-on.
Half the enjoyment of watching trains and planes is their awesome sound.. I really don't get people who put music over it.
LUN4T1C 78
Best part was watching those cars coming to a complete stop knowing there was still full power being applied. Was just a mind bending sense of the magnitude of mass that was present. Wow!
its not power actually.. It's the traction that gets all trains at grades. There simply isn't enough traction between just 4 powered wheels per engine locomotive to haul that much on grades. Your car might have 2000Hp but if you cant put that power meaningfully onto the road you are going nowhere mate..
It wasn't full full power, that would have broke a knuckle if they did that. You have to back off once you start to stall or else a single wheel slip will break it in two. Surprised the engineer looks like he tried to take off again without getting helpers. Probably very green and stalled due to not backing off the throttle and giving it a little independent on time. Then again some old heads I know if have no idea what to do in these situations either.
@@Steezicus
So you're saying he could've made it without stalling using the technique you describe, with just the two engines?🤔
The photography in this video is first rate. Outstanding in all regards, not just the technical; the compositions are just beautiful.
This somehow manages to be both very boring and incredibly interesting at the same time.
Moving right along... slowing... slowing... uh oh... aw NUTS we're stalled... ... wait... what... AAAAA! HitTheBrakes!HitTheBrakes! We're rolling back down! :D
I'm stuck in this vids, without understanding anything of what is happening, but I'm still amused and I want to know how will this end
IKR😂😂😂😂
Right! Wtf! Lmao
Greater truth hasn't been spoken. 😂😂😂
I am regularly amazed at the power generated by the electric motors of the locomotives!
Thank you for sharing all these train adventures. I watch these and realize the Tomboy in me never went away. Lol When I had my son we both enjoyed hot wheel cars and trains. When the train would come through our town I would run him to town to see it. Had the pleasure of getting a short ride inside an engine also. We both had our own Lionel train sets, his was a Diesel engine and mine was a steam engine lol Mom and son making memories together. Even had the pleasure of watching him get excited over riding with Thomas the tank engine. My excitement was seeing the amazing Union Pacific Big Boy and standing inside of it engine department lol Unforgettable experiences. Thank you again.
Thank you for using a tripod. Great to watch steady video.
And then catch the ground shuddering at the end. Truly amazing
I love it when it's dead quiet all around with only the slow train sounds. Very cool!
The balls of steel on the guy just walking across the crossing toward the end of the video.
What impresses me the most here is the insane amount of creaking and popping as it goes up the hill. Really makes you think about the ridiculous amounts of weight getting up that hill, and you can just hear the stress on everything. I'm surprised more knuckles don't break from things like this.
This happens appearantly often here, as there is a sign with a telephonenumber to report stalled trains! 12:25 :)
@@rosehiptrystrains7613 Ok I see. Here in the Netherlands we have quite similar level crossing barriers (they are from US origin). And there is a small plate on the engine housing that holds and drives the barrier, saying to report any malfunctioning of the levelcrossing at a telephonenumber mentioned. Left behind carriages would keep the block locked and next trains will be stopped by the preceding blocksignal being at danger.
I think the sign was to report stalled cars on the crossing, so that a train doesn't come and murder someone's Nissan Versa.
@@JETZcorp Of course! That's what they mean!
@@JETZcorp Or Nissan Leaf
@@JETZcorp Hey, I have a Nissan Versa and don't want it to get murdered, right now it's all I have. LOL
The close up wheel action!!! This was AWESOME!!!! Great shots!
On today's episode of "random recommendations"...
No shit. I have seriously no idea what so ever how this came into my recommendations.
@@FabledGentleman same
+1
I wasn't sure exactly why this showed up in my recommendations either but I'm glad it did.
I actually like trains, so it is fine. lol
Kind of eerie how the train came to a halt at the 4:40 mark with the rain, the silence only broken by metal making sounds
Until my daughter was 5 we lived in a town that used to have a roundhouse for the Big Four.
It still have a lot of trains going through town every day.
Every time we'd hear the train whistle my daughter would say, "Train daddy, train daddy!"
We would always turn towards the tracks so she could watch the train go through town.
She's 15 now and on our summer visitation we travel a lot. Every town we get to, if they have a museum or old engine on display, we always go to see it.
Well done. You put a great video to explain the difficulties our freight trains deal with. Getting the Commerce delivered. I'm from Minnesota watching Soo line Burlington Northern have the same difficulties in different types of weather.
I guess they couldn't...
Make the grade
Zachary Bucklin b
They got an f
🕶 👌
Beautiful
Zachary Bucklin I know, it was just an uphill battle right from the start.
Mind you, those locos are used to pulling their weight. The driver struggled for a bit, and then after a while I guess you could see the turning-point.
The incredible power and tractive effort on display is soooo impressive, cheers
You said Thanks for watching. I say Thanks for uploading.
Glad you got the wheel spin in the video. Sounded like a GIANT table saw. Metal on metal can be challenging - not much traction (hence the need for sand), but low rolling resistance once you get going.
Reminds me of the last Lionel layout I built with a 3.5% grade S curve. Engines always stalled in the same spot unless the train was about 5 cars or less. I didn’t have as many engines as I have now. A new layout starts this winter. The first 4x8 table was built in April.
Trains are absolute engineering marvel..it simply thrills me to see a train coming from far with it's mighty sounds n horns
production of this video is as railfan videos should be. nice job and nice catch. thanks for sharing
Thanks
Agreed
This has to be one of the best narrated videos I've ever come across, thanks!
Excellent video. You do such a great job! All your videos are just amazing. And, no music, thank you for that. 👍
Great job! Thanks to the many engineers who keep these behemoth moving across the country and keep life rolling for millions of Americans!
... and bring joy to railway lovers all over the world!!! / ... и доставлять радость любителям железных дорог по всему миру!!!
great video that was a heavy manifest but it was cool to too see the big AC4400CW wheel slipping trying to get the 2nd half started
I can just imagine the engineer sitting up front feeling the speed slowing down and thinking "oh shit!!!" and pushing the throttle up more and more and not getting any more speed and still slowing down inch by inch until he comes to a slow death stop the last two feet, and starts sliding backwards!!
Yeah, this is what what happens when I play Train Simulator, except for the derailments after I start breaking couplers.
Wrestling Fanatic Bernkastel economy models construction
What's your favourite SIM? Are there any for rail road design? Or any for working yards?
Wait wait wait, you can do that in Train Simulator?? Derail from a broken coupler??
@@russellgxy2905 TSW is notorious for its many ingame glitches, for example, if you decouple while going above 20, your train will just crash
I don't understand that with all the so-called great technology, how can this happen. It makes me wonder how many deadly errors could have easily been made undetected and luckily avoided.
Thank you for sharing this awesome video.
technology cant really help here its steel wheels on steel tracks once they start to slip it hard to get any grip back and it being wet makes it a lot harder.
The fat controller was cross. Fat controller" You have caused confusion and delay!"
Name Dropper 😂
Fat fuck should’ve given the damn train more locomotives then
Production quality 10 for 10.
Thanks!
8888: Unstoppable.
8880: I can dream, can I?
Nice greenery along that line. Good to see a factory issue CSX SD40-2. I know CSX overhauled bunches of 'em. Gave them a sleek, smaller nose. They look great! It isn't uncommon at all anymore to see Union Pacific units in Atlanta yards.
The crew did a crafty job of working and manipipulating that big train up that incline and putting it back together. Hat's off to them!
Actually the SD40-2 was originally built as an SD40 and then rebuilt by Conrail to SD40-2 status at Juniata. But I get what you mean
"You win again, gravity!" Zapp Brannigan
One of the best narrated rail videos I’ve heard.
I think I can, I think I can, I think I.........
Shit I can't.
I thought I could, I thought I could, I though I could...
@@armoricain Shit I couldn't
I thought I could, I thought I could, I thought I....
When you realize that the total amount of contacting surface between the locomotive's wheels and the steel tracks is less than the surface of your fingertips, you really begin to appreciate the traction problem that trains suffer from.
JUST DUMP THE CLUCH U CAN DO IT (my pop)
Excellent commentary and videography. Thanks.
Beautiful train and landscape. Love to see the smoke and feel the engines work harder, plus the slipping and the electric motors behind the wheels.
Interesting to Watch. Thank you for the authentic voices of the train and the environment.
not gonna lie, you should totally do voiceovers and give information in your videos
that narration was really good!
I'm not an expert for sure, but I was surprised in not seeing 3 locomotives, maybe even 4 pulling a freight like that. That's quite a lot of cars.
Tremendous skill and experience to resolve this problem. Impressed indeed!
Right place; right moment. I hope the trainoperators have learned their lesson. Nice video.
The engineer and conductor didn't have any lesson to learn: management did. Train crew just ran with what they were given.
They wanted to save on locomotives used. Well indeed that backfired. If the tracks were dry it might not be a problem. I mean that goodsload came with a reasonable speed! I always thought that Michigan was flat. How much is/was the climb in feet?
That was a really interesting video. Thanks for all the information's during it. Like it very much
Cheers Adam
Everything in this video is top notch ! Nothing boring or dull (no skipping needed)! Great Job !
That is a fantastic catch, thanks for sharing it! I live not too far from there, going to have to make a point of spending some time there. Also neat to see some UP power, don't see it all that often!
Michigan looks like such a beautiful state. Very lush.
It really is, especially in fall
It's generally considered the Hawaii of the midwest!
😀😊😀👍🏼 Great Video Excellent Footage And as Stated No Music Just The Great Sound Of The Train Itself 😀😎😀😀😊 Thank You
I enjoyed this vid very much and the narration was a nice touch. I like trains, but know very little about them. I mean I love to sit and watch trains go by, counting cars &engines and like guessing what is in them and where they have been and where they are going ect.
Interesting video. Good photography and editing, good narration. Thanks for no sappy, crappy music.
I am subscribing.
i don't know anything about the power it takes to make these kind of grades, but this video was very interesting. the crew did what they had to do to get the train over the summit & those guys did a good job!
Great job by the crew and obviously by the unbroken locomotives :) Excellent video!
Great footage, well filmed. 👏 what an amazing train. Thank you
I wonder how often they burn out traction motors with these heavily overloaded locomotives. Great catch.
GE Traction Motors are very resilient. They're designed to be abused!
Thornapple River Rail Series i love abusing trains
Wanna play crash locomotive derby? 😈😵
Very seldom with the newer power
AC power traction doesn’t wear out.
I've watched this video so many times. It never gets old.
I was at a crossing about 1974 when a N & W coal train with 3 locomotives stalled out. We had to wait on a pusher unit with 2 locomotives to go down the line, change over behind and push the train up the hill.
I like your "documentary film style" narration ;)
The sound of those locomotives brings back memories love it
Your voice was made for Railfan Videos on TH-cam. 😬👍 Very Clear and Understandable. 👍
Thanks! 😃
The sound given by these cars and movements are amazing, you can hear the mass, the gravity the laws of physics. Love that. Thx man.
Wow you have some excellent video coverage here, love it.
Thank you, that was very interesting. I do not work in the railroad industry, just enjoy trains is all. Also, thanks for the commentary explaining what was happening. I had no idea what they would do in a situation like that.
wow thats a sick vantage point you got there, GREAT VIDEO!
Great narration, great focus, great coverage. I like watching over n over.
11:57 the amount of math being done right there with regards to friction and tractive effort, is impressive
Excellent videography. Truly a pleasure to watch.
Reminded me when we were heading to our junction to deliver outbound cars. The sanders were not working correctly so we were dipping our gloves in the sand hopper and manually pouring on the rail.
I've done that. Walked 1/4 a mile with a bucket of sand dropping it on the tracks.
I am very impressed with watching the trains. My 3rd Grandfather & his son worked with the L&N railroads. Thank you for sharing. Gail Wilson
I really enjoyed your video. Too many times others think that if they zoom more it is more appealing. You have let the trains tell the story along with your VO. You gained another subscriber today. Keep up the good work.
Excellent video. Unlike many rail videos, this one has some information, narration, context. You do your research.
Amazing catch. She needed two in the middle and one at the back.
2 in the pink and 1 in the stink.
Thanks for this video buddy. Its shame I found you after long time. Going to see previous episodes now.
Worth a try, I guess. Love American railways.. So characterful .
Really amazed at how many trucks that one engine is pulling!!
Great video, and excellent narration.
Marion.
Thanks for not filling this with crap loud music! Nice job.
Used to live about 3/4 mile from the SP tracks and I loved to hear the horn at night. For about 45 years
Awesome video! Well filmed but also very good montage! Subscribed!
Thoroughly enjoyable video as all your work .
Needs more cow bell.
Right
I got a fever and the only prescription is more cowbell
Please let them be played by cows alongside the track.
Even a stone face like Thomas looked ashamed doing the walk of shame lmao
Whoa ! That had as much drama as any daytime soap. lol ! At 11:08, I'm going "come on... come on baby, you can do it, good girl... go... GO..."
Subbed !
"A freight train, a freight train, a freight train...The shame of it, the shame, oh the shame of it."
-Gordon the Big Engine
Isaiah Hamilton 😂😂😂😂😂
Well, grouse though he might, at least Gordon got on with it instead of hiding in a tunnel and blowing steam at Sir Topham Hatt! :P
This is quality content none of us deserve but all of us want. Great video!
Wow, this is my Home turf, and the first I've heard of this tricky grade. I've driven past this area my whole life. I'm going to look this section up at 55th Street next time I visit Home.
I've been told that CSX has a habit of sending out consists under-powered. What would additional power cost vs time wasted and fuel etc wasted doing this.
Excellent narration and excellent video, thanks for sharing , I love American horsepower, EMD or GE its all good!
That's CSX. Two units 2 miles of train, 20 mph
Every Class I Railway in a nutshell. They put too little power on the train and blame the engineers, conductors, _et cetera_ when the train arrives 12 hours late.
@@electric7487 nah, just csx. I never see a UP or BNSF train with less than 13600 horsepower. Most aren't even a mile long.
Nice video! Great videography.
I was hoping to see a shot of the power pass the first cut. But the fantastic close-up of the powered wheels made up for it!
Your minimal narration is very good, I agree. With headphones on it does sound obvious you're reading a script, in a box, though. Keep up the good work though!
Since I wanted to ensure I got the coupling shot, I had to get back down the hill before the run-by would have occurred. While the way I used to get up the hill in the first is short, the other takes about 3 miles on twisty dirt (read crap) roads to get back down the hill. I couldn't take the short way as if the train did beat me, as was kinda likely, they'd be blocking the crossing, as you saw. Just the background on that. Thanks for the comments on the narration - I think it has improved since this, and even this was a HUGE step up from my first forays into it. Half the fun is learning how to do it better! Cheers!
Absolutely, your narration (and the audio quality of it) has improved by leaps and bounds! I still love to come back to this video though, as it is so rare that such an event is caught on film, let alone at such great production quality.
It's a blessing to have access to you incredibly high quality videos for free on TH-cam. Thank you for doing it!
This train is symbolic of me trying to do a simple task.
Espee Productions lol right
What an engaging ‘ride’ for railroad enthusiasts!
You had me at "paltry power offering."
The train was all loads, and had a weight of about 9200 tonnes. The two locomotives have 7400 HP total, and that's only 0.8 HP/tonne. If I were them I'd put another UP AC44CW and another CSX SD40 on the front.