I’m the customer Nick mentioned. I just drove an hour home with my newly installed system, and I couldn’t be happier. Building a dream system for my truck has been a goal of mine, so I spent months on forums and TH-cam looking for guidance, especially since my experience was mostly with basic setups in my cars. Being fairly handy, I wanted to create something that sounded incredible while saving on labor costs. Until I met Nick, I had NO HOPE of finding a reputable shop to handle the installation and tuning. Now, the system in my truck is unbelievable-I didn’t want to get out when I got home! I highly recommend Nick and his team. It’s rare to find people in car audio who truly deliver top-notch quality.
Yep...I also had the privilege of experiencing the Audio Control HP filter and wondered why in the past that other amps I had run with less power had my subs digging much lower down into the low 20 HZ territories. Ditched the AC amp and now have bass you can truly feel and for far less money as well.....
I cannot express how happy I am that I found you on here. You are a car audio savant. I also cannot express how excited I will be to have a consult one day. Do it right the first time is my motto and I know that’s what everyone gets with you. No bs.
I'm at the beginning stage of planning my dream system and for sure this will be money well spent. It's wild the differences in audio shops and after watching so many of your videos and Peter's it's scary to pull the trigger and drop thousands of dollars without knowing how it will turn out.
Nick, your last few competitor spotlights and this video have been incredibly educational. I hope you continue putting out content like this. The info your providing comes across differently when you provide actual evidence like you did here. I'll be contacting you about some upgrades after the new year.
Anyone on the fence about using nick. Don’t be. The guy knows what he is talking about. Small nick story. I contacted him and he spent hours and weeks even working up different quotes for me. Finally he told me, look don’t waste anymore money. Let me fix what you have instead of you spending 25k more. He would rather you save money and he’s honest about that too. Ultimately I had him tear out everything and redo it anyway because I wanted a system that he built. Don’t sleep. Nicks the real deal. And a good dude on top of that.
Thank you for confirming that I need to get rid of my AC mono amp. I agree after installing the AC amp it my subwoofer sounded "off" in one way or another. even with playing around with tuning.
I've recently noticed the Kicker CXA amps all have a fixed 25 hz subsonic filter. I've got a 400.1, 800.1 and 1200.1, but I haven't tested them out yet.
When you are dedicated enough to have drivers for such narrow bandwidths... Anything is possible. A sealed enclosure could be tuned to 5hz if you really want it.
I'm extremely glad you dropped this video as I was preparing to buy an audio control LC-5.1300 DSP amplifier. Now I know to steer clear of it and obtain the helix instead. I'm going to want to speak with you soon before I purchase anything and help me plan my way forward. Thank you for everything you do as you have instrumentally changed my entire outlook on equipment, insulation, and anything car audio!
@@ResoNixSoundSolutionsjust saying. Its a decent entry level way of getting into dsp system if people want to play with stuff on their own. Just putting that subwoofer in the front puts that out of the funds for people who would be using an audiocontrol amp. If i was dropping that coin on just a front subwoofer, im not using big box store stuff. Lol
@@electrontransferconduit657 Shame. If only you can hear the difference a front sub playing 80-40hz makes... You wouldn't think the same if you actually heard a well put car with one.
Incredible!!! We never hear about not using Audio Control . Normally it’s regarded as quality for SQ. Not sure if anyone approves on this channel but I use the new Alpine C60 DSP and think it’s pretty solid for its price point. I also use the JL Audio RD900/5 along with a Kicker CAX1200.1. So for it’s really clean sounding. But naturally I am never satisfied always trying to perfect the sound. Thanks to people like you, Peter and Raw Cat
Do you think there's much need to play under 20hz? I run a ported enclosure in a full size suv and I find I really like a lower tuned box. The difference between a 27hz and 30hz port tune is not very noticeable, but I always prefer the lower one. I don't think most of my music plays below 30hz, but I do like my Epicenter. I use a 20hz subsonic filter. Does being able to play bass down to 15hz or 10hz make that much of a noticeable difference?
Unless you're listening to a lot of pipe organ content, there's not a lot of music with infrasonics- and even when it is present, it's felt rather than heard. Digging below 20Hz is important in home theater (assuming you're not using a streaming service, all of which significantly compress the audio). For example, the Blu-Ray for Blade Runner 2049 features audio information all the way down to 12Hz! Again, this is inaudible, but it creates a more visceral experience. Oftentimes, films use infrasonic tones to heighten tension and unease. So If your goal is to build a theater on wheels, you should definitely aim to play below 20Hz. My impression is that when people talk about a mobile audio system having significant output below 20Hz, it's usually to indicate that there is no roll-off in the 25-30Hz range. If I'm wrong, I'd like someone to correct me!
I recently tested the frequency range of each component in my system and my enclosure. I tuned my ported enclosure by ear. Turns out it was 22hz. My system can only play down to 18hz due to the headunit. I think this is low enough for me, but I'm curious what other people think. What's strange is I can feel the extra low end (18hz-26hz) even if the music beats are all above 30hz. ( I can see what frequency each bass beat is using an electrical rta in real-time) Some of the subs I test can play strong down to 18hz and some tend to roll off under 27hz. Just listening to regular music you can hear/feel the difference. Maybe the main or primary beats in the music are above 30hz, but there are lower tones or rumbles there that I'm not seeing on the rta? IDK, I'm learning as I go along. Lol
The rest of my equipment can play much lower than 18. It's just my headunit is the limiting factor. If I ever need to swap it out I'll try to get something that can play lower. For now, I'm good playing down to 18hz.
I have a 23 Ram 1500 and that hump over the instrument cluster is an imaging alterer! How can I get the file to 3D print a mount for the tweeters in the sail panels? I want to believe... 💯
I wonder what a graph with the new subs and enclosure woulda looked like using the AC amp. I’m thinking the lack of performance was mostly due to the original sub/enclosure combo.
@@Dav.vid1 no, it was mostly the amp. Modeling the subs shows they perform close enough in frequency response. But the amp severely limits low end due to a baked in subsonic filter that's way too high in frequency
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions gotcha, I looked into it and the amp I checked was permanently set to 24hz, idk why so high but good to know. Great content btw 👍🏽
@@ResoNixSoundSolutionsnick, the one built in is 24hz@18db slope. Did you feel like it was much higher than that? Thanks. I was also your customer w tuning :)
@@daveroski it just felt too limiting regardless of what it's exact setting was. Why sell an amplifier that cuts off and limits half an audible octave, then everything below that includes tactile feeling without any way to defeat it. Silly.
Awesome info! I have a sneaking suspicion I'm using the same morel 3 way set and see the same issues with the mids in the dash by the windshield. I'm in an f150. Do you have a mid range you recommend for a truck dash location that will give a good response?
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions This is true. Most of these issues can be minimized with decent window tint it it's legal in your area of the world. I've had mine on top of my dash for 3 years and have not had a problem. I have had sealed tweeters in the same location puff up, not great!
I also made that mistake. LC1.1500. It sounded good on my Morel Ti124, but it was lacking the lowest notes. I had a spare Steg K2.03 two channel with no subsonic filter. Hooked the Morel on the Steg bridged; you could even see the inaudible lowest tones move the cone, which I never had seen with the Audio Control. I researched if the built-in subsonic filter could be disabled, but unfortunately I couldn't find anything. Is the Audio Control a good subwoofer amplifier; yes. Does it have a major flaw; definitely....
@JasonWW2000 The "flaw" is the fact that Audio Control doesn't provide a bypass off the subsonic filter. What isn't talked about in this topic is also the loud fan of the amplifier, which is continuously on, hot or cold, and the extreme high temperature the amplifier gets under normal conditions, especially for a class D amp.
@umtbozkr2358 Again, whether a person considers if a flaw or not is a matter of opinion. What fan are you talking about? I wasn't aware the LC1.1500 had a fan. So it's fan cooled, yet still runs hot?
@JasonWW2000 Exactly, the fan is always on. I've got 3 of them (for two rear Ti124 and a front Morel PowerSlim 124D sub), and all 3 have the same issues. Sound quality and power are good. Only the downsides are the fixed, 24Hz, subsonic filter, noisy fan, which is always on, and how hot it gets during normal listening. And lastly, for me it's not a big issue, it can only handle down to 2 ohms, not 1 ohm.
@umtbozkr2358 Yeah, now I see it. A fan in the center of the board moving air from the top to the bottom. I've always been skeptical of fans that have no clear inlet and exhaust. Hot air needs to be extracted and fresh air pulled in. A fan in the center like that just seems to move internal air around. Not very effective. They say it's microprocessor controlled. Maybe it runs constantly at a low speed and gets faster as heat increases? IDK. It sounds like you might consider swapping them out.
So sad for audio control because they make the epicenter and are known for bass extension equipment, I got a D1200.6 and was going to buy two LC-1500s for my subs one to each SQL12 and I'm glad I didn't people warned me I even called Audio Control and talked to them and your stuck with it if you buy their equipment. I was going to run all audio control and because of this very issue they missed out on me at least showing my car at car shows with a full-on Audio Control system.
Hey nick you should host a challenge with some friends where you give the competitors a budget and see who can setup the best system within the budget. You’ll really see who can tune and who can’t !
Just an fyi and anyone can use what they want, but their dsp amps dont have any filtering and you can pick it within their software if you want a subsonic. They used to have that in their software when it first came out but they got rid of it from people complaining. Just wanted to clear that up for people reading. This video is for their non-dsp amps that have that non-defeatable subsonic. edit: after looking at all their new amps it seems they have defeable subonics and they never updated their LC line for some reason.
18:43 haha. i just asked on another Video if a pair of IB 8's will integrate into a IB 18. lol. i do wonder what an IB 18 will do though, right now im in the planning phase for a new setup. my current install is a 2-way in the doors and 2 12inch Alpine SWG 1244 in 120Liter(4.2 cu-ft ish) tuned to 25hz and its all 100% shit. ive had an older pioneer 12" subwoofer before on about a thousand watts rms that played low well but it wasnt loud enough. needed like 8-10db more.
Thats weird because on the Epicenter micro for example they have a PFM switch that is defeatable under the cover when you open up the Epicenter micro. I wonder why they dont have that on their amplifiers. Im a fan of an infrasonic (subsonic, which is actually the wrong term) on ported enclosures.
Obviously I want an adjustable infrasonic, not some arbitrary number that the company chooses. Do better Audio control, I'll stick to selling Arc and Mosconi
@@AlastasiusI totally agree. I've installed maybe 5 DM810 processors and I wasn't a fan. Although admittedly I'm a big fan of Arcs software out of all the companies
@melissathompson7229 Seanomatic in this comment section is saying some of the Arc amps also have a non defeatable subsonic filter at 25 Hz. The Epicenter Micro has the defeat switch accessible from the outside. It's super easy to turn on or off. An adjustable filter would be better. I also think they should build in a line driver. It's a pretty great unit.
AudioControl was a major player back in the day, with their analog stuff, because it was fantastic for what it was. All of their newer stuff has had poor decisions written all over everything they make, just add this to the list.
@@swabby913 frankly, I base it off first hand experience these days. I know most dont have the first hand experience and that I do, so this is not a great way to tell for those without a lot of quality hands on experience.
@ResoNixSoundSolutions yeah... I get it. I'm about to endeavor on a sq build. Haven't really messed with it for years. Incredible how much power you can buy cheap. Obviously comes with a draw back like all things in life. I'm in between on less is more or just going banger on dsp and individual drivers and seeing whats possible with staging. Fun times
I think review filtering from places like Crutchfield or Best Buy are a big issue. Not that crutchfield doesn’t offer a huge amount of options and tech support, I just think people usually are let down by what they end up with because there’s a dramatic lack of cohesion or timber in their system even though the receipt would say otherwise. It’s like golf… people buy off the rack clubs and don’t improve until they actually get fit and see objective data. People on forums can be snobs but most are helpful. If it wasn’t for people like you and Peter we’d be lost. Like you say, good planning and generous advice can save someone half the money with three times the sound. Understanding the plan is one thing, but understanding measurements is an entirely separate dynamic most aren’t prepared to either pay for, or learn to do. Side note.. my LC4.800 powers my midbass and I love it 🤧
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions what makes them different from a cheap class d though? I honestly don't know. I know I love tubes. I assume it all has something to do with tolerance to changing impedance.
@@swabby913 The application for the topology of an Amplifier is very important. Class D amplifiers have caught up. Audiotec Fischer is a highly competent company which have proven themselves time and time again. The Helix P One is a great example of a well created Class D amplifier. I'd start there.
Wasnt a phase issue. Phase measured fine. At first I thought the Accubass feature was accidently turned back on, but it was indeed off. I think it was a combo of not so great subs and an even worse amp.
@ResoNixSoundSolutions But what actually makes something peaky or beamy? Its more than a dollar sign. I feel like it's cheating to just say, "cheap stuff sucks". Do you think TS params provide an honest representation of real world? Or is it like pyramid amps back in the 90s and their RMS ratings? I've built many enclosures and specd many drivers and I'm with you. It's almost like none of it matters past experience
Robert Zeff designed the AudioControl monoblocks. The ARC Audio amps also have this same exact issue, as they slope HEAVILY around 25HZ. I am not sure why Zeff designs his amps like this, beyond avoiding potential damage in ported enclosures. Audiocontrol's own website for the LC-1.1500 doesn't even have correct specs. If you look at the website, it says frequency response is 10 Hz - 30 kHz. Looking in the manual, it says it is 20 Hz - 300 Hz. Then, they say the amp has a 24Hz PFM. In the past, AudioControl PFM were modules that could be changed. You can't change the PFM/Crossover of their D-Series amps, it is stuck at 24Hz. The new Audiocontrol stuff shouldn't slope at all and has a completely defeatable infrasonic filter down to 0Hz.
@SeanOMatic I'm not seeing any mention of a subsonic. They say it's range goes down to 20hz or 10hz depending on which spec you look at. Are you saying it's an undocumented subsonic filter?
I've never been on board with AudioControl. A lot of the youtube car audio channels and local shops push these things. It's a half baked DSP and half baked amp smashed together for way too much money. Helix, MiniDSP, Down4Sound, Taramps; those are my jam.
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions It depends on the use case. If you have way too much headroom, you're never getting into the distortion of the amps. Now, would I suggest these amps to someone who wants a reliable, one-and-done system? Probably not. For me they work well. No line noise, most of my gains are set to Min and I can still rock out as much as I want. Speaker drivers, proper installation and a decent DSP are way more important than "clean" amps (as long as you have enough power).
@@WestonWillThe Taramps full frequency models, like the 2 and 4 channels are notorious for noise and distortion. Even at very low power. A Brazilian guy once commented that even there, most folks don't use Taramps on the mids and highs. They use a better brand. Lol
New to this channel and just an hour or two in, and it's obvious that you (Nick) have a vast amount of both talent and knowledge in audio. I know that Taramps and D4S are definitely targeting a different demographic than the folks at focal or McIntosh are, but I feel your comment regarding this company and that brand doesn't belong with the x y z's, reminds me of 2 instances that might change your stance if you aren't already familiar with them. 1st is when a braz full bridge was A/B tested against- and please excuse that I can't recall the amp model- but against a half bridge with fancy caps and top of the line filters, equating to a 500 dollar competing against a 8 or 10 or 15000 dollar amp and the sound was discernable to those that tried to determine which was which. The 2nd instance, while honestly I can't stand the face or owner or whatever he is in relation to D4S and I partly hated purchasing something from him that provides him with more resources to continue acting like- well I will stop there. But D4S makes a class A/B in a world over populated with class D that if you haven't had a chance to hear yet.. I think your stance of at least one if not both of my examples might be different after seeing the A/B experiment (which is probably really only going to apply for say 60hz and lower) and if you get a chance to hear warmth and detail of the class A/B they produce. I'm sure you know of both but happy to give specifics to if interested as trying not to name drop on my first or 2nd posting in some time now
What did the customer use for integration from the OEM head unit? Amp Pros work fine but in a Ram im using Idata AR into an Arc Blackbird or PSM Pro. Then it lets us, the installer, change the bass control to subwoofer volume control among other things
Well, there were a few small suggestions. One was an actual issue (the sub amp/sub setup). The second one being a low-hanging fruit upgrade (the midrange and adding a front sub), and a suggestion for further improvement based on what the cars layout offers (moving tweeter to the sail panel), but he ended up also changing speakers, subs, sub amps, doing the front sub, etc. Its pretty much a whole new system minus the Helix P Six Ultimate and P Two, which is what I originally sold him when he contacted me, but already had everything else. But put it this way. It was enough to where he could have just dropped the car off and left a week or so later with a really good system fully installed by a professional. I truly do think the consultation services that I am now offering are a bargain since I see these situations happening quite literally every single day.
My subs mud out at 50 Hz, box tuned to 40 Hz, 2 8 in B2 Audio rage 8 V2 in a 1.4 cu ft box with slot port.low end is awesome but 50 Hz it sounds thin vibrations, like my subs cant produce the Hz. My DSP is set to lp 80 and hp 30. Can someone help me, I also have an audiocontrol lc2i pro for line driver, accubass off
I wonder if there’s a warranty issue with that amp. That built in filter is way off he should absolutely show that response to Audiocontrol and see what they say because that is more like a 30hz subsonic filter not a 20hz. I’m not saying he should keep that amp, but they owe him a properly functioning amp since he paid for it. Personally I’d be pretty pissed off.
No, this is how it is. This is how all of them are. Its a 24hz filter. Pretty sure its a 24db BW filter. This is exactly what he purchased, and it is listed as such right on the product page.
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions LOL. As soon as I saw the guy having the tweeters on the A-pillars flat, facing each other... I knew right then and there he was no good for any application or tuning advice. To his credit, his fabrication is decent, which is kind of what he really should be uploading anyway. It's in his channel's name.
It's a shame, but it's the truth. American manufacturers don't hold a candle to the European offerings. Without name dropping, I would say only two get a pass and even then it's only putting them in line with mid grade offering across the pond.
A little clickbaity, but I'm all for it! It will get more exposure. As a victim of Audio#$@*rol a $250 eval would have saved me months of time and money (back when I was watching Mark zuckernerd and the 4 star boys. Even frog man is a regular there). You can feel the passion in this one and I look forward to more like it.
Yes, I made it clickbaity for a reason. Because I am done being quiet about things I know that can help the end users instead of letting them get shafted by ads.
@@JasonWW2000 I wouldn’t assume your background, but when people reach a certain point they will discover who is sharing real information for better sounding cars, vs popular sell outs. A C marketing dept is on point I will give them that.
@@chloeleedow7250 $250 for a one hour chat about what he should have done would have saved this guy roughly $6000 and a few weekends of his time in the long run. Tell me more about how that's a waste and how my time is limited and valued by many people, myself included :)
You get what you pay for! I’ve bought to much shit twice when I wish I just did it right the first time. I was doubting resnoix at first but I will definitely grab his deadner the next car I do….
I’m the customer Nick mentioned. I just drove an hour home with my newly installed system, and I couldn’t be happier. Building a dream system for my truck has been a goal of mine, so I spent months on forums and TH-cam looking for guidance, especially since my experience was mostly with basic setups in my cars. Being fairly handy, I wanted to create something that sounded incredible while saving on labor costs.
Until I met Nick, I had NO HOPE of finding a reputable shop to handle the installation and tuning. Now, the system in my truck is unbelievable-I didn’t want to get out when I got home! I highly recommend Nick and his team. It’s rare to find people in car audio who truly deliver top-notch quality.
@@VladC6 glad to hear that you love it. As always, let me know if there is anything I can do further. Thanks again!
Hopefully you can sell some of your unused equipment locally on market place. I'm sure some people would be thrilled to have it.
@@JasonWW2000 that’s the plan
Yep...I also had the privilege of experiencing the Audio Control HP filter and wondered why in the past that other amps I had run with less power had my subs digging much lower down into the low 20 HZ territories. Ditched the AC amp and now have bass you can truly feel and for far less money as well.....
What model of AudioControl amp did you have? I just got an EPIC1000 and the subsonic filter has settings ranging from OFF to 50hz.
I cannot express how happy I am that I found you on here. You are a car audio savant. I also cannot express how excited I will be to have a consult one day. Do it right the first time is my motto and I know that’s what everyone gets with you. No bs.
Thanks and welcome :)
I'm at the beginning stage of planning my dream system and for sure this will be money well spent. It's wild the differences in audio shops and after watching so many of your videos and Peter's it's scary to pull the trigger and drop thousands of dollars without knowing how it will turn out.
@@jimmyteter well, feel free to reach out and lets have a chat
Nick, your last few competitor spotlights and this video have been incredibly educational.
I hope you continue putting out content like this. The info your providing comes across differently when you provide actual evidence like you did here.
I'll be contacting you about some upgrades after the new year.
@@williamwilson7943 I plan on it. Glad you are enjoying it all :)
Anyone on the fence about using nick. Don’t be. The guy knows what he is talking about.
Small nick story. I contacted him and he spent hours and weeks even working up different quotes for me. Finally he told me, look don’t waste anymore money. Let me fix what you have instead of you spending 25k more. He would rather you save money and he’s honest about that too. Ultimately I had him tear out everything and redo it anyway because I wanted a system that he built. Don’t sleep. Nicks the real deal. And a good dude on top of that.
@@sambeagle9300 thanks Sam! I'm glad to hear that you're happy with how it all turned out.
Thank you for confirming that I need to get rid of my AC mono amp.
I agree after installing the AC amp it my subwoofer sounded "off" in one way or another. even with playing around with tuning.
Glad I could help. Let me know if you need further help :)
That’s crazy, that’s an insanely huge difference in response and output after you replaced the amp. Nuts
@@SQ_Silverado yep. Small changes can have huge impacts on the end result.
Great video! Wish I knew this when I first started. Had to learn with my pockets 😂 The amount of money I would have saved if i knew you back then.
@@stagsaudio unfortunately this is how most learn
I've recently noticed the Kicker CXA amps all have a fixed 25 hz subsonic filter. I've got a 400.1, 800.1 and 1200.1, but I haven't tested them out yet.
Ya but the kickers still slam
❤❤❤Genius , you are a genius❤❤i didn’t know sealed boxes could play that low WOW
@@denissession9423 definitely not a genius, but I definitely know how to design, install, and tune a great sounding car audio system :)
When you are dedicated enough to have drivers for such narrow bandwidths... Anything is possible. A sealed enclosure could be tuned to 5hz if you really want it.
@@swabby913 that doesn't really have anything to do with it. The new rear subs played CLEAN from 5hz to 120hz. That was as high as I tested.
Sealed boxes can go lower than ported. Ported just plays louder.
I'm extremely glad you dropped this video as I was preparing to buy an audio control LC-5.1300 DSP amplifier. Now I know to steer clear of it and obtain the helix instead. I'm going to want to speak with you soon before I purchase anything and help me plan my way forward. Thank you for everything you do as you have instrumentally changed my entire outlook on equipment, insulation, and anything car audio!
@@honeybadgerwrx always happy to help. Yeah, good move on steering clear.
Their dsp amps dont have non-defeatable subsonic filters.
@electrontransferconduit657 yeah but they have many other problems that are a long videos worth of their own lol
@@ResoNixSoundSolutionsjust saying. Its a decent entry level way of getting into dsp system if people want to play with stuff on their own. Just putting that subwoofer in the front puts that out of the funds for people who would be using an audiocontrol amp. If i was dropping that coin on just a front subwoofer, im not using big box store stuff. Lol
@@electrontransferconduit657 Shame. If only you can hear the difference a front sub playing 80-40hz makes... You wouldn't think the same if you actually heard a well put car with one.
Incredible!!! We never hear about not using Audio Control . Normally it’s regarded as quality for SQ. Not sure if anyone approves on this channel but I use the new Alpine C60 DSP and think it’s pretty solid for its price point. I also use the JL Audio RD900/5 along with a Kicker CAX1200.1. So for it’s really clean sounding. But naturally I am never satisfied always trying to perfect the sound. Thanks to people like you, Peter and Raw Cat
Do you think there's much need to play under 20hz?
I run a ported enclosure in a full size suv and I find I really like a lower tuned box. The difference between a 27hz and 30hz port tune is not very noticeable, but I always prefer the lower one.
I don't think most of my music plays below 30hz, but I do like my Epicenter. I use a 20hz subsonic filter.
Does being able to play bass down to 15hz or 10hz make that much of a noticeable difference?
Unless you're listening to a lot of pipe organ content, there's not a lot of music with infrasonics- and even when it is present, it's felt rather than heard.
Digging below 20Hz is important in home theater (assuming you're not using a streaming service, all of which significantly compress the audio). For example, the Blu-Ray for Blade Runner 2049 features audio information all the way down to 12Hz! Again, this is inaudible, but it creates a more visceral experience. Oftentimes, films use infrasonic tones to heighten tension and unease.
So If your goal is to build a theater on wheels, you should definitely aim to play below 20Hz.
My impression is that when people talk about a mobile audio system having significant output below 20Hz, it's usually to indicate that there is no roll-off in the 25-30Hz range. If I'm wrong, I'd like someone to correct me!
I recently tested the frequency range of each component in my system and my enclosure.
I tuned my ported enclosure by ear. Turns out it was 22hz. My system can only play down to 18hz due to the headunit. I think this is low enough for me, but I'm curious what other people think.
What's strange is I can feel the extra low end (18hz-26hz) even if the music beats are all above 30hz. ( I can see what frequency each bass beat is using an electrical rta in real-time)
Some of the subs I test can play strong down to 18hz and some tend to roll off under 27hz. Just listening to regular music you can hear/feel the difference.
Maybe the main or primary beats in the music are above 30hz, but there are lower tones or rumbles there that I'm not seeing on the rta?
IDK, I'm learning as I go along. Lol
The rest of my equipment can play much lower than 18. It's just my headunit is the limiting factor. If I ever need to swap it out I'll try to get something that can play lower. For now, I'm good playing down to 18hz.
I have a 23 Ram 1500 and that hump over the instrument cluster is an imaging alterer! How can I get the file to 3D print a mount for the tweeters in the sail panels? I want to believe... 💯
@@markbest4230 feel free to reach out and I can get you some. info@resonixsoundsolutions.com
I wonder what a graph with the new subs and enclosure woulda looked like using the AC amp. I’m thinking the lack of performance was mostly due to the original sub/enclosure combo.
@@Dav.vid1 no, it was mostly the amp. Modeling the subs shows they perform close enough in frequency response. But the amp severely limits low end due to a baked in subsonic filter that's way too high in frequency
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions gotcha, I looked into it and the amp I checked was permanently set to 24hz, idk why so high but good to know. Great content btw 👍🏽
@@ResoNixSoundSolutionsnick, the one built in is 24hz@18db slope. Did you feel like it was much higher than that? Thanks. I was also your customer w tuning :)
@@daveroski it just felt too limiting regardless of what it's exact setting was. Why sell an amplifier that cuts off and limits half an audible octave, then everything below that includes tactile feeling without any way to defeat it. Silly.
@ agree!
Awesome info!
I have a sneaking suspicion I'm using the same morel 3 way set and see the same issues with the mids in the dash by the windshield. I'm in an f150.
Do you have a mid range you recommend for a truck dash location that will give a good response?
For something that's fits in the OEM location, I am not too sure.
No idea if they'll just drop in, but I love my Peerless Mids: "Peerless by Tymphany NE85W-04 2-1/2". I would put these up against a mid at any price.
@WestonWill have seen issues with those in a dash due to not being treated for UV and built to handle heat.
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions This is true. Most of these issues can be minimized with decent window tint it it's legal in your area of the world. I've had mine on top of my dash for 3 years and have not had a problem. I have had sealed tweeters in the same location puff up, not great!
I also made that mistake.
LC1.1500.
It sounded good on my Morel Ti124, but it was lacking the lowest notes.
I had a spare Steg K2.03 two channel with no subsonic filter.
Hooked the Morel on the Steg bridged; you could even see the inaudible lowest tones move the cone, which I never had seen with the Audio Control.
I researched if the built-in subsonic filter could be disabled, but unfortunately I couldn't find anything.
Is the Audio Control a good subwoofer amplifier; yes.
Does it have a major flaw; definitely....
Not everyone is going to see it as a "flaw". It just depends on the person and their vehicle.
@JasonWW2000 The "flaw" is the fact that Audio Control doesn't provide a bypass off the subsonic filter.
What isn't talked about in this topic is also the loud fan of the amplifier, which is continuously on, hot or cold, and the extreme high temperature the amplifier gets under normal conditions, especially for a class D amp.
@umtbozkr2358 Again, whether a person considers if a flaw or not is a matter of opinion.
What fan are you talking about? I wasn't aware the LC1.1500 had a fan. So it's fan cooled, yet still runs hot?
@JasonWW2000 Exactly, the fan is always on.
I've got 3 of them (for two rear Ti124 and a front Morel PowerSlim 124D sub), and all 3 have the same issues.
Sound quality and power are good.
Only the downsides are the fixed, 24Hz, subsonic filter, noisy fan, which is always on, and how hot it gets during normal listening.
And lastly, for me it's not a big issue, it can only handle down to 2 ohms, not 1 ohm.
@umtbozkr2358 Yeah, now I see it. A fan in the center of the board moving air from the top to the bottom.
I've always been skeptical of fans that have no clear inlet and exhaust. Hot air needs to be extracted and fresh air pulled in. A fan in the center like that just seems to move internal air around. Not very effective.
They say it's microprocessor controlled. Maybe it runs constantly at a low speed and gets faster as heat increases? IDK.
It sounds like you might consider swapping them out.
Made me go look up the Trulli TD10S. Very unique & low profile... but damn $$$$$.😵
So sad for audio control because they make the epicenter and are known for bass extension equipment, I got a D1200.6 and was going to buy two LC-1500s for my subs one to each SQL12 and I'm glad I didn't people warned me I even called Audio Control and talked to them and your stuck with it if you buy their equipment. I was going to run all audio control and because of this very issue they missed out on me at least showing my car at car shows with a full-on Audio Control system.
Just out of curiosity, what made you choose to use REW rather than any other acoustic measurements applications. 😶
I use a combo of rew and smaart.
Hey nick you should host a challenge with some friends where you give the competitors a budget and see who can setup the best system within the budget. You’ll really see who can tune and who can’t !
@@ssjdavid that sounds like a lot of work lol
@@ResoNixSoundSolutionshahaha probably 😂😂 would be a fun little challenge though
Just an fyi and anyone can use what they want, but their dsp amps dont have any filtering and you can pick it within their software if you want a subsonic. They used to have that in their software when it first came out but they got rid of it from people complaining. Just wanted to clear that up for people reading. This video is for their non-dsp amps that have that non-defeatable subsonic. edit: after looking at all their new amps it seems they have defeable subonics and they never updated their LC line for some reason.
The DSP amps is recommend even less than the LC amps. The DSP's from them are terrible, and are a whole different story.
18:43 haha. i just asked on another Video if a pair of IB 8's will integrate into a IB 18. lol. i do wonder what an IB 18 will do though, right now im in the planning phase for a new setup.
my current install is a 2-way in the doors and 2 12inch Alpine SWG 1244 in 120Liter(4.2 cu-ft ish) tuned to 25hz and its all 100% shit. ive had an older pioneer 12" subwoofer before on about a thousand watts rms that played low well but it wasnt loud enough. needed like 8-10db more.
Thats weird because on the Epicenter micro for example they have a PFM switch that is defeatable under the cover when you open up the Epicenter micro. I wonder why they dont have that on their amplifiers. Im a fan of an infrasonic (subsonic, which is actually the wrong term) on ported enclosures.
Obviously I want an adjustable infrasonic, not some arbitrary number that the company chooses. Do better Audio control, I'll stick to selling Arc and Mosconi
With the R&D they put into the Epicenter, they could have actually tried to make their DSPs more decent.
@@AlastasiusI totally agree. I've installed maybe 5 DM810 processors and I wasn't a fan. Although admittedly I'm a big fan of Arcs software out of all the companies
@melissathompson7229 Seanomatic in this comment section is saying some of the Arc amps also have a non defeatable subsonic filter at 25 Hz.
The Epicenter Micro has the defeat switch accessible from the outside. It's super easy to turn on or off.
An adjustable filter would be better. I also think they should build in a line driver. It's a pretty great unit.
The Arc X2 series amps. An undocumented 25hz subsonic filter. Have you come across this?
AudioControl was a major player back in the day, with their analog stuff, because it was fantastic for what it was. All of their newer stuff has had poor decisions written all over everything they make, just add this to the list.
❤❤❤Genius , you are a genius❤❤
@@denissession9423 not a genius, but I know a bit about making great sounding car audio systems :)
Can I ask what subwoofer you end up going with to replace the rockford subwoofers?
@@mattroadfeldt9012 it was mentioned in the video. Audiomobile Elite 10's
From advertised specs... How do you determine a high q amp from pyle?
@@swabby913 frankly, I base it off first hand experience these days. I know most dont have the first hand experience and that I do, so this is not a great way to tell for those without a lot of quality hands on experience.
@ResoNixSoundSolutions yeah... I get it. I'm about to endeavor on a sq build. Haven't really messed with it for years. Incredible how much power you can buy cheap. Obviously comes with a draw back like all things in life. I'm in between on less is more or just going banger on dsp and individual drivers and seeing whats possible with staging. Fun times
@@swabby913 Feel free to stop in for a consultation :)
Whats about zapco i have a DSP amp from them the newest one they have i like it so far but i have no tune and install isn't the best.
@@coolme241 I wouldn't touch em
I think review filtering from places like Crutchfield or Best Buy are a big issue. Not that crutchfield doesn’t offer a huge amount of options and tech support, I just think people usually are let down by what they end up with because there’s a dramatic lack of cohesion or timber in their system even though the receipt would say otherwise. It’s like golf… people buy off the rack clubs and don’t improve until they actually get fit and see objective data. People on forums can be snobs but most are helpful. If it wasn’t for people like you and Peter we’d be lost. Like you say, good planning and generous advice can save someone half the money with three times the sound. Understanding the plan is one thing, but understanding measurements is an entirely separate dynamic most aren’t prepared to either pay for, or learn to do.
Side note.. my LC4.800 powers my midbass and I love it 🤧
I think big TH-cam channels pushing products that they get paid from is the problem here
I was always a fan of AudioControl…what else you recommend?
@@thegrizzlyfamily1374 start with something that doesn't remove the bottom half of the first audible octave 😂
@@ResoNixSoundSolutionssuch as?
@@swabby913 I typically use Mosconi Pro or Helix for mono amps. In this car we used a simple JL RD1000
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions what makes them different from a cheap class d though? I honestly don't know. I know I love tubes. I assume it all has something to do with tolerance to changing impedance.
@@swabby913 The application for the topology of an Amplifier is very important. Class D amplifiers have caught up. Audiotec Fischer is a highly competent company which have proven themselves time and time again. The Helix P One is a great example of a well created Class D amplifier. I'd start there.
Did you mention the subwoofer amp that replaced the AC?
JL RD1000.
Ac d-6.1200 has this flaw 😳?
@@1VIPWRX not sure. Wouldn't really be applicable since it's not powering a sub
@ ok , appreciate the response . Fellow Rockland resident 🤓
@1VIPWRX ugh, I hate it here 😂
@ lol , i understand the hate .
Rumble thing had to be a phase issue related to impedance. Whats your theory?
Wasnt a phase issue. Phase measured fine. At first I thought the Accubass feature was accidently turned back on, but it was indeed off. I think it was a combo of not so great subs and an even worse amp.
@ResoNixSoundSolutions But what actually makes something peaky or beamy? Its more than a dollar sign. I feel like it's cheating to just say, "cheap stuff sucks". Do you think TS params provide an honest representation of real world? Or is it like pyramid amps back in the 90s and their RMS ratings? I've built many enclosures and specd many drivers and I'm with you. It's almost like none of it matters past experience
Robert Zeff designed the AudioControl monoblocks. The ARC Audio amps also have this same exact issue, as they slope HEAVILY around 25HZ. I am not sure why Zeff designs his amps like this, beyond avoiding potential damage in ported enclosures. Audiocontrol's own website for the LC-1.1500 doesn't even have correct specs. If you look at the website, it says frequency response is 10 Hz - 30 kHz. Looking in the manual, it says it is 20 Hz - 300 Hz. Then, they say the amp has a 24Hz PFM. In the past, AudioControl PFM were modules that could be changed. You can't change the PFM/Crossover of their D-Series amps, it is stuck at 24Hz. The new Audiocontrol stuff shouldn't slope at all and has a completely defeatable infrasonic filter down to 0Hz.
Which Arc Audio models do you mean?
@JasonWW2000 ARC X2.
@SeanOMatic I'm not seeing any mention of a subsonic. They say it's range goes down to 20hz or 10hz depending on which spec you look at.
Are you saying it's an undocumented subsonic filter?
@JasonWW2000 Yes
@@SeanOMatic Interesting. Did you see it on an electrical rta or by some other means?
Are their LOC’s still good? Audio Control that is.
Its 2024. Why would you ever use a LOC? Unless you are only adding a sub? Honestly, I am not sure. Havent used a LOC in over 10 years.
@
Short version. Audi with MMI so fiber optic. Not a lot of options here.
Their LOCs are very good if you want to amplify a stock stereo system or amplify an oem headunit and change out the speakers.
@neil12011audi with mmi is great since you can use a MOST interface.
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions Why do you act like using LOC in 2024 is rare when factory headunits are no longer easily replaceable? Why the dishonesty?
I've never been on board with AudioControl. A lot of the youtube car audio channels and local shops push these things. It's a half baked DSP and half baked amp smashed together for way too much money. Helix, MiniDSP, Down4Sound, Taramps; those are my jam.
@@WestonWill down4sound and especially taramps does not belong with the other two lol
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions It depends on the use case. If you have way too much headroom, you're never getting into the distortion of the amps. Now, would I suggest these amps to someone who wants a reliable, one-and-done system? Probably not. For me they work well. No line noise, most of my gains are set to Min and I can still rock out as much as I want. Speaker drivers, proper installation and a decent DSP are way more important than "clean" amps (as long as you have enough power).
@@WestonWillThe Taramps full frequency models, like the 2 and 4 channels are notorious for noise and distortion. Even at very low power.
A Brazilian guy once commented that even there, most folks don't use Taramps on the mids and highs. They use a better brand. Lol
New to this channel and just an hour or two in, and it's obvious that you (Nick) have a vast amount of both talent and knowledge in audio. I know that Taramps and D4S are definitely targeting a different demographic than the folks at focal or McIntosh are, but I feel your comment regarding this company and that brand doesn't belong with the x y z's, reminds me of 2 instances that might change your stance if you aren't already familiar with them. 1st is when a braz full bridge was A/B tested against- and please excuse that I can't recall the amp model- but against a half bridge with fancy caps and top of the line filters, equating to a 500 dollar competing against a 8 or 10 or 15000 dollar amp and the sound was discernable to those that tried to determine which was which. The 2nd instance, while honestly I can't stand the face or owner or whatever he is in relation to D4S and I partly hated purchasing something from him that provides him with more resources to continue acting like- well I will stop there. But D4S makes a class A/B in a world over populated with class D that if you haven't had a chance to hear yet.. I think your stance of at least one if not both of my examples might be different after seeing the A/B experiment (which is probably really only going to apply for say 60hz and lower) and if you get a chance to hear warmth and detail of the class A/B they produce. I'm sure you know of both but happy to give specifics to if interested as trying not to name drop on my first or 2nd posting in some time now
@neildeatherage2269 I think you're missing my entire point of the video and why I'm saying to stop using these amplifiers.
What did the customer use for integration from the OEM head unit? Amp Pros work fine but in a Ram im using Idata AR into an Arc Blackbird or PSM Pro. Then it lets us, the installer, change the bass control to subwoofer volume control among other things
@@melissathompson7229 he actually bypasses the OEM system completely.
@@ResoNixSoundSolutionsoh cool. I assume Bluetooth on a DSP or a DAP?
@@melissathompson7229 Both actually, using a DAP and a Helix BT Streamer
Jeez, how much more did this customer spend on this issue?
Well, there were a few small suggestions. One was an actual issue (the sub amp/sub setup). The second one being a low-hanging fruit upgrade (the midrange and adding a front sub), and a suggestion for further improvement based on what the cars layout offers (moving tweeter to the sail panel), but he ended up also changing speakers, subs, sub amps, doing the front sub, etc. Its pretty much a whole new system minus the Helix P Six Ultimate and P Two, which is what I originally sold him when he contacted me, but already had everything else. But put it this way. It was enough to where he could have just dropped the car off and left a week or so later with a really good system fully installed by a professional. I truly do think the consultation services that I am now offering are a bargain since I see these situations happening quite literally every single day.
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions Have you ever encountered an issue with a Match dsp where only the sub channel stops working?
@@hot99pas no
I had 90's RF amps and "upgraded" to a new 5ch AC amp. oooff it was dissapointing
Even Rockfords newer amps are great sounding and dynamic. Right now they are my go-to amp brand.
My subs mud out at 50 Hz, box tuned to 40 Hz, 2 8 in B2 Audio rage 8 V2 in a 1.4 cu ft box with slot port.low end is awesome but 50 Hz it sounds thin vibrations, like my subs cant produce the Hz. My DSP is set to lp 80 and hp 30. Can someone help me, I also have an audiocontrol lc2i pro for line driver, accubass off
What vehicle is it?
If it's a large suv, your gonna get cancellation that rolls off the frequencies above 45 or 50 hz.
I wonder if there’s a warranty issue with that amp. That built in filter is way off he should absolutely show that response to Audiocontrol and see what they say because that is more like a 30hz subsonic filter not a 20hz. I’m not saying he should keep that amp, but they owe him a properly functioning amp since he paid for it. Personally I’d be pretty pissed off.
No, this is how it is. This is how all of them are. Its a 24hz filter. Pretty sure its a 24db BW filter. This is exactly what he purchased, and it is listed as such right on the product page.
@@ResoNixSoundSolutionsdoesn’t it seem to drop off pretty hard quite a bit before 24hz though?
@@ADeArce look into how crossovers work
I'll just keeping win 1st/2nd/3rd in MASQ, EMMA, and IASCA over here with my AudioControl speakers subs processor and amps. Lol😂
Wait until my sqology podcast to come out where I discuss how competition results don't mean much if at all these days.
Ive been bitching about AC for like 4 years now
Guess that wireless mic came back.
@@TwoStrikes it did :)
Oh, no! Car Audio Fabrication was promoting garbage all along 😱
I'm shocked! (Sarcasm).
@@Alastasius when I get these calls the first thing they say after I mention the problems is "but Mark said..." 🤦
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions LOL. As soon as I saw the guy having the tweeters on the A-pillars flat, facing each other... I knew right then and there he was no good for any application or tuning advice.
To his credit, his fabrication is decent, which is kind of what he really should be uploading anyway. It's in his channel's name.
@@Alastasius they've sponsored his show for years so has JL, difference is jl stuff is good 😂
Also debatable.
It's a shame, but it's the truth. American manufacturers don't hold a candle to the European offerings. Without name dropping, I would say only two get a pass and even then it's only putting them in line with mid grade offering across the pond.
I'M GOING TO SELL MY ZAPCO AP AMPS TO BUY AUDIOCONTROL AMPS 🤣😂🤣😅
You better not change a thing without talking to me first lol
@@ResoNixSoundSolutions nothing will be changed
A little clickbaity, but I'm all for it! It will get more exposure.
As a victim of Audio#$@*rol a $250 eval would have saved me months of time and money (back when I was watching Mark zuckernerd and the 4 star boys. Even frog man is a regular there).
You can feel the passion in this one and I look forward to more like it.
Yes, I made it clickbaity for a reason. Because I am done being quiet about things I know that can help the end users instead of letting them get shafted by ads.
There's no need to be insulting.
@@JasonWW2000 I wouldn’t assume your background, but when people reach a certain point they will discover who is sharing real information for better sounding cars, vs popular sell outs. A C marketing dept is on point I will give them that.
who is frogman?
@@drm9979 irrelevant
Basic set of morels what 500-1000 dollars lmao😂 what a waste of money
Hey, hey. That one guy on TH-cam who recommends AudioControl is Mark from CarAudioFabrication.
Yes, they are one of his sponsors.
Mark Zuckerberg from The Fab Kitchen left the chat.
While I assume you know what you're doing for 250 an hour that's just ridiculous and greedy.
@@chloeleedow7250 $250 for a one hour chat about what he should have done would have saved this guy roughly $6000 and a few weekends of his time in the long run. Tell me more about how that's a waste and how my time is limited and valued by many people, myself included :)
You get what you pay for! I’ve bought to much shit twice when I wish I just did it right the first time. I was doubting resnoix at first but I will definitely grab his deadner the next car I do….