ICC war crimes charge strengthens Netanyahu's position in Israel | Ian Bremmer | Quick Take
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- The idea for any Israeli civilian, any Israeli civilian that their country, that their leadership could be somehow put in equivalence to the terrorist organization that attacked them on October 7 is utterly unthinkable so the response here is going to be stronger support for the Israeli government inside Israel, stronger support for the Israeli prime minister and defense minister inside Israel.
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Ian Bremmer's Quick Take: Hi, everybody. Ian Bremmer here and a Quick Take to kick off your week.
Plenty of breaking news right now. And what I want to focus on is the International Criminal Court, the ICC, which is now seeking arrest warrants for Hamas leadership and Israel's leadership, putting both on a level with Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has been friends with both Hamas leadership and Netanyahu over the years.
So it's kind of an interesting club. But this is certainly a challenging headline. And if you're watching this around the world and you're seeing that the International Criminal Court is making these cases against Sinwar who runs Hamas and other senior deputies, and the Israeli prime minister and the minister of defense.
What you are seeing, what you feel, the takeaway you would have is moral equivalence, culpability. Well, both of these must be, you know, sort of engaged in crimes against humanity, acting against international law. These are bad people. These are criminals. And I mean, I want to just take a step back for a second. Seven months after the worst killing of Jews since the Holocaust, you are seeing that democratically elected leaders of Israel, the only strong, albeit far from perfect democracy in the Middle East, is being put on the same plane as the terrorists that raped and tortured and killed Israeli citizens, still, seven months later, holding them hostage and want to destroy Israel as a country. That is an extraordinary headline for people to see and people around the world who are on very different sides of this conflict will respond to that very differently, radically differently.
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#QuickTake #ICC #IsraelHamasWar
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So according to Bremmer, when you press legal charges against the Israeli leaders, this only strengthens them domestically, empowers the far right, makes it harder to remove Netanyahu, etc.
So what do you think happens when you launch a genocidal war to “destroy KHamass”? Does that strengthen or weaken Hamas domestically?
Get your facts straight. Genocide means killing according to ethnicity which is exactly what Hamas did but not Israel.
@@jiahan3849 lol that's some serious coping. Anyway your view isn't important, it's what Arabs in the region think that's important.
@@MRTY323 God's view is important. The whole region belonged to Israel. They were there for 3000+ years.
@@jiahan3849
Get your facts right. Ashkenazi jews ruling Israel now are of European decsent.
Jews of Semitic ethnicity have been living in the region as a minority among other semitics of different believes. That does not make the land belong to only current day Israelis.
@@jiahan3849 Your abrahamic god doesn't exist, you might as well pray to harry potter or optimus prime
The law isn't that vague, prosecutors present evidence and accused have chance to refute
news media and politicians don't seem to like the idea
Especially when they are complicite. People do not seem to realise the ICC and the ICJ are the highest courts in the world. Its not about opinions. They are worth little in a court of law as every rational person knows. Without evidence no alledged criminal could be found guilty. Further to rhis, Scotland Yard was handed a Dossier with 800 pages of evidence on politicians, journalists and corporate entities in the UK that have supported and shielded Israel in its execution of war crimes. Expect that many countries legal establishments will be presenting similar Dossiers to their own bodies. The UK Dossier will expand to include other actors abroad. This includes multinationals that went to Israel to support the commital of war crimes. Pay attention to your words. If you are someone with influence your posts may come back to bite you.
I don’t view these possible warrants as Israel being put on the same plane as Hamas, I view it as an international body applying the same international law to actors in the conflict, with no one being considered above the law.
And I don’t agree that the US “doesn’t view the ICC as a legitimate body.” The US often welcomes proceedings of the ICC when they comport with US interests, with the US even being an observer in the past. It is accurate to state that the US is not a state party to the Rome Statute of the ICC. That is a big difference.
Yes. Unless the ICC treats everyone the same they lose legitimacy. The Israeli people already see Netanyahu as a bad actor in this war. How they react will be telling but they will gain sympathy if they support the move.
@@marymarlow3646 good point.
Well, that is just verbal acrobatics with no substance whatsoever
Israel being put on the same plane as Hamas, = an international body applying the same international law to actors in the conflict AND handing out the same sentence to both
Ian, I watched John Meirshaimer lecture at the CIS in Australia. (it's on le youtube). His case is compelling. Sir, thank you Sir.
What has Israel done to Palestinians prior to Oct. 7th
Lots. There is an ongoing investigation that dates back to 2016.
They steal land in the west bank. They removed settlements in Gaza but manage what goes in and out of its borders.
@@Mslindyrose It should date back to 1947 or even the start of the British Mandate.
Two international terrorists received warrant from court.
Finally some sense making.
I fail to see how seeking arrest warrants for Hamas and Israel leadership puts them on the same moral plane. And I find parroting that argument dangerous. It means, in the eyes of ICC prosecutor, both leaderships are committing/have committed crimes. It doesn't mean it's the exact same crimes, or that there is moral equivalence between the crimes.
Well put. Just because they fall under the same broad umbrella doesn’t mean they’re morally equivalent, regardless of one’s thoughts on whether they are valid or not
How come no one said "Palestinians have the rights to defend themselves". Palestinians have been living in this open air prisons for many years. hundreds of thousands were killed. Who is going to give them justice? Who is going to hold Zionists accountable for the atrocities, killing, bullying, oppressing, etc on the Palestinian people?
@@jolness1 I mean obviously since Israel has killed 34 K civilians and funded and propped up Hamas as the government of Gaza for almost 20 years of which it would be impossible for a weak terrorist group to govern on their own and made it possible for Hamas to pull off Oct 7th, it's not a moral equivalence. It's just one type of arrest warrant so both Israel and Israel's proxy Hamas, have to be given the same arrest warrant.
You are right. There is no equivalence. The crimes listed are different. However, in politics the perception of statements is more important than the content of them. I think Ian got the "optics" of this statement right.
The system of morality I subscribe to implies that with more power, and more knowledge, comes greater responsibility, accountability, and expectation for rational behavior.
We expect better of the Israeli government. That's as it should be.
Frankly, I think a lot of the finger pointing towards Hamas is used to lower the morality bar on the Israeli side. Is that really the kind of government you want? Marginally better than a terrorist group?
Personally, I'm at least on the side of the ICC symbolically. The ICC answers the question: "What would the ideal case be, if we had rule of law all over the world?"
So basically ian bremmer is saying if someone is guilty or suspected of being guilty, but he is a gentleman from high society, rich , posh , well educated, he should not be held to account because it would make him look bad.
So far there are no arrest warrants yet. The court still has to decide if they agree with the opinion of the prosecutor.
Likely a mere formality, rarely are warrant requests turned down
3:15
Would any war criminal willingly provide evedance of his war crime?! 😂😂😂
It is funny US cannot "difinitively" suppot these accusations given the current US intellegence budget.
Will the USA keep sending weapons to war criminals?
You already know the answer
Ian has completely become the trumpet of the foreign policy establishment
aka "Ian says something I don't like and/or disagree with, and therefore he is part of the establishment." stop it...
@@valetudo1569 How is that any different than Ian whining about what the ICC did that he doesn't agree with?
@@avinashtyagi2 What video are you watching? He's giving his professional opinion... nothing was even remotely close to whining. Take your personal feelings out of things and try to be objective and actually listen to other educated viewpoints that are made in goodfaith
@@valetudo1569 I'm being very objective, the entire video is trying to spin Israel as the good guys, and the ICC request for a warrant as a bad thing. When we know this is completely at odds with reality. By any objective standard Israel's brutal assault has been wildly disproportionate, has purposely targeted aid workers and civilians and especially in light of the fact that they are no where near eliminating Hamas, has been merely an excuse to do collective punishment on a largely innocent group.
It's very reasonable of ICC to demand that Israel's leadership face arrest same as Hamas' leadership.
You and Ian need to stop cucking for Israel
I fail to see how the cutely added “since Holocaust”, what does the Holocaust and Nazi crimes have anything to do with the crimes committed by the current Gov. of Israel? As if Israel can do no wrong because of Holocaust happened?
It's not about moral equivalence with Hamas, it's about the application of the LAW, based on facts, and anyone trying to conflate the two is a disgrace.
Hamas is an instrument of the Iranian Ayatollahs. They should be charged with war crimes, too.
Ian you biased in favor of Israel
He is biased in favor of logic and equality and morality
Copium.... @@gregg2696
@@gregg2696 Not really, Israel actions in Gaza can easily be argued to cross the line into war crimes, and Netanyahu is the PM of Israel, and in charge of the war cabinet, so a warrant on him is very justifiable
@@gregg2696 there is nothing moral in cutting off, water , electricity, and food to the entire Gaza population .
@@gregg2696 You mean the logic of Israel to fund and prop up a terrorist group for almost 2 decades, a terrorist group I might add that has the destruction of Israel in its charter... Israel thought it was a good idea to prop up a group like that....that called for the destruction of Israel. I mean, you should really think about that for a second. That's not really sound logic or good governing of the Israeli government and Oct 7th is a result of Israel's failed policies. The Israeli government has the blood of 34 K civilians and 1,200 Jews on its hand.
Do you think any European countries dares to arrest Nethanyahu if he is convicted? If they do arrest him, what will be the consequences?
Don't forget Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden..they all have extra -legal government activities as part of their duties.
Thank you.
This is Amazing israeli government is ofended by ICC and Hamas people are ofended as well, for the same reasons.
People claimed pursuing justice for Trump's crimes would empower him too.
Justice should be served.
Bibi Netanyahu - Mr. Putin - Hamas on the same boat is perplexing! LOL!
The dark lords are becoming exposed...
Yes, it is, what it is!
Hamas and Israel - no difference
I'd say Israel is worse.
because it wears the tag of democratic elected government.
Ian is smart enough to know that but he is not mentioning that!
Karim Khan Qadiyani would have never had the balls to make such a request without the blessings of the United States .
Stop starving children !!!!!
If the ICC arrest warrant of the Israeli prime minister Netanyahu and the war crimes charge strengthens Netanyahu's position as per your pathetic argument, so Netanyahu should be happy and appreciative !! Not worried to death as we saw Netanyahu and his furious attack of the ICC. As for the 2 state solution, Netanyahu rejected that solution years before October 7th and reconfirmed his rejection recently replying to Biden confirmation that the 2 state solution is the only solution to end this decades old conflict.
Mr Bremmer, the charges against the two groups are vastly different, not at all equivalent. I wish you would have highlighted that instead of reiterating Fox News headlines.
THE ICC COULD GIVE THE NEWS IN TWO SEPARATES STATEMENTS... THIS IS RIDICOULOUS. ..
its complicated it is easy to see them as the same
Syria' Assad has a arrest warrant upon his head, just asking...?
I have major respect for the ICC, especially after the threats hurled at the ICC by members of Congress if the warrants are issued (including levying sanctions and barring the ICC judges AND their families from entering the US! Why would Congress bully their families?! The threats notwithstanding, the ICC judges are guided by international law, and are not swayed by the ramifications of their decisions. These are the qualities of impartial judges. The case is pretty simple; The ICC isn’t denying Israel’s right to retaliate to the brutal murder of its citizens on October 7th (heck the ICC intends to issue warrants on the terrorist perpetrators! But the nature of Israel’s reaction (not the reaction) has been brutal and inhumane
Yes, proportionality is part of the requirement when we speak about international criminal law
Mr Bremmer, what opinion do you have about the recent comments from Ram Ben Barak, member of the Knesset about that Israel is losing the war in Gaza?
I heard that too. A matter of fact, I also heard that Americanos are fighting in the tunnels.
Israel IS an apartheid state it’s not a democracy Ian🤨
It also undermines the Democratic process in neighboring countries. If Egypt or Jordan had real democratic governments, they would take a harder stance in defense of the Palestinian people
Sorry to tell you, the people who live in the Palestinian Territories are not citizens of Israel, therefore this CANNOT be apartheid. It is unfortunate for the people who live in these territories, but their leaders certainly have power and never, ever use it to help 'their' people (they don't even live in "Palestine")
@@benb6527 tell that to the thousands of Palestinians under indefinite military detention
@@benb6527 sorry to tell you that there are 15 million Palestinians ruled over by 7.5 million Israelis
@@benb6527 sorry to tell you that 15 is bigger than 7.5
Add one for Geno Joe Biden too
This is a very weak take from Ian Bremmer - come on, you can do better than cliches like "moral equivalency", "only democracy in the Middle East", "terrorists that raped and tortured and killed... and want to destroy Israel".... bla bla bla
According to Ian, if your democracy and elected leader you should be able to get away with genocide
Yup! Some of us know these are all lies created by Isril gov't. What made them think that Palestinians want to touch zionist women.
I agree, it's not about moral equivalency but abiding by international criminal laws, which Hamas of course but also the government of Israel have been stepping on with both feet.
We-e-e-ellll ... I wonder how much his sponsor, Bank of America, influences what he says .... ?
ICJ
Is this a definitive decision that the Israeli government committed war crimes and the recognitinon that Hamas has caused and is not avoiding any action to prevent such crimes ?
The only reason that Israel had to respond to the most heinous violence against innocent civilians is that Hamas have insisted that they want to do this again and again. Maybe you could explain this to Bernie Sanders who insists that a massacre and the response to a massacre are the same thing.
Israel planned the whole incident planned by Netanyahu turned security off so it would happen .
Wants a cleansing obvious.
Bibi is pooping his pants
why are americans effectively paying for the free healthcare in israel when americans can't afford their own? can politicians tell netanyahu to pay back the $263 billion in aid over the many years?
From day 1 there were 4 parties in this war. Netanyahu, Hamas and then the Jewish population and the Palestinian nation.
Netanyahu should have heeded the prior clear warnings at the time. He chose to ignore them for he was fighting for his freedom in court. This war fell in his lap. Hamas’ sponsors must be estatic now that the Hizbollah is attacking from Lebanon, a few bombs from Syria and now Iran. Who lost?? The 2 nations while their warlords are selling themselves as decent (religious) men with a “vision for a brighter future “.
There is no Palestinian nation
@@460masthere is no Palestinian state yet, but there is a Palestinian nation. You do not need a state to be a nation.
Regarding the reality of the Palestine nation the following (Golda Meir)
“In the interview, which Meir gave to British Thames TV, she sarcastically called herself a Palestinian. In so doing, she was essentially trying to emphasize that there is no separate community or people called Palestinians.
“What was all this area before the First World War? Palestine was the area between the Mediterranean and the Iraia n border… East and West Bank was Palestine; I am a Palestinian,” Meir said….She also admitted that she obtained a Palestinian passport under the British Mandate, which was created in 1923 to facilitate the mass Jewish immigration”. Morocco World News. Oct 2033
who is going to enforce this warrant ? ICC is about as useful as the UN
Israel may extradite them down the road, when they have a new government. Serbia extradited Mladic and Milosevic to the ICTJ in ten Hague when it turned the page politically and wanted to normalize relations with the EU. it may take some years and national self reflection.
I stand with israel❤
how is Israel "our strongest ally"??? WTF are you talking about?
Why doesn't this guy just get a job working for the Whitehouse?
lol @ but they were democratically elected to OH NO there are Israeli minsters who are asking to annihilate Gaza to BUT OH NO look at protestors chanting from the river to the sea!! love it..excellent job!! I come here for your comedy sketches 😅
Just like trump. His trials strength his base.
The other big issue is that 2.5 million Gazans are crowded into a postage stamp of semi desert having the water, farmland and other resources to support 1/100th of that number of people over time. How many countries export significantly more food calories than they consume? 10? 15? Out of 195 counties in the world. As global warming gets worse and the total human population continues to climb, feeding Gazans, Haitians, Saudi Arabians, Singaporeans, Brits, etc. is going to get more and more difficult.
I reject your thesis. I don't think the ICC charging both Hamas and Netanyahu insinuates moral equivalence nor are they being placed in the same "bucket". I feel you are consequently implying that the ICC should make a democracy exempt from refraining from potential alleged war crimes and that strikes me as beyond outrageous. In fact, I would take it a step further. A democratic country should have even higher standards to avoid participating in potential war crimes (assuming it is determined that there have been war crimes committed) to take the moral high ground. Maybe we should focus more on the merit of the judgement/assessment rather than the perception across the world from the lowest common denominators. Your analysis is overtly political rather than strictly integrity based.
how many civilians have died in Gaza? i.e vs Ukraine? (10.000 vs 35.000) my point being that if we consider Russia's invasion criminal, then surely we have to consider the Gaza invasion equally if not more so criminal. No doubt terrorist organisations need to be managed but at what cost to civilian life and the quality of those that struggle to continue to survive, impossible to imagine.
Israel is a mini Russia
This is not apple to apple comparison
Indeed. It’s human lives
Ukraine v Gaza is a false equivalence. Gaza is one of the most densely populated areas in the world and Ukraine is a large country with large swaths of land to conduct military operations free of civilians.
Russia’s war is a crime as they began a war of aggression against a sovereign nation. Ukraine didn’t paraglide into Russia to murder rape and kidnap anyone they could find and drag them back into Russia to throngs of cheering people.
Putin is a war criminal as he attacks civilian soft targets purposely and kidnaps Ukrainian children. Ukraine (to my knowledge) doesn’t set up their military operations aside the civilian population because, unlike Hamas, they view their civilians dying as a bad thing.
But either way, the wars in Ukraine and Gaza are totally different types of wars. Not every war is proportionate.
Hamas was hand picked from the Brotherhood by USA/Isril to displace PLO led by Arafat. Hamas was supported by USA/Isril via Qatar. They propelled Hamas to a legitimate gov't status. Hamas was voted in as legitimate gov't for Palestinians. Now, these freaking people call Hamas terrorists. Hamas' leadership is in Qatar. How come they have not gotten assasinated yet.
Oct 7th was a preluded to Gaza invasion. Why? 1) for Greater Isril, from the Nile to Euphrates! 2) there is a large reserve of oil/gas off the coast of Gaza and Isril wants it. Isril and USA already signed a contract last year. These tribal members could smell money anywhere.
But for the last half of this, I strongly disagree.
First, it's not a proper democracy, if it's a Jewish state. Not everyone is equal in Israel.
Is there nothing "terroristic" about the systematic evisceration (murder, dispossession & erasure of villages, exile, & no right of return) of Palestine by the IDF since 1948, and perhaps before? Or is that fine and cool because it's become an established state, which--bonus!--gets US$4bn/yr support from the USofA?
How is the failure to recognize the ICC relevant to rightness of the verdict reached?
Does the likelihood that Israelis might balk ("utterly unthinkable") at the thought that there's something like a moral equivalence between the terror of Hamas and that from Likud and the IDF not simply affirm that they've been "educated" into such thought? After all, it's a verdict based on abundant , hard evidence.
As for that last half, 1 surely some among the country's many Arab people (50%?) would agree with the ruling of Bibi's criminality. 2 See also @levantinian, below.
The ICC probably has an arrest warrant for Truman
Thank you for this nuanced take. A lot of comments above severely misunderstand how political signaling works at large, and this Bremmer take is an extremely acute nuance that many are mishearing.
Ian, I listen to you to discover regularly how wrong you are about international affairs. US-biased. Not independent in you thinking.
there was no RAPE, Ian. Please stop saying shit that is not true.
Absolute unfiltered rubbish. This guy disguises a lot of sins under his supposed reasonableness.
I didn’t expect Ian Bremner has morally corrupted, fallen to such a propaganda mouthpiece! Ian, please try this: Is Richard Nixon a democraticly elected American president? Is Trump a elected democraticly elected American President?
Ah, I see Ian got a big paycheck recently. Welcome a new member to the propaganda churn.
Thanks Ian bremmer clear voice
iCC is worthless
Is that a quote from Putin?
The ICC has lost all credibility. It should be disbanded.
Putin was saying that in 2023.
... only because it waited so long before issuing warrants for these criminals.
Now it has a chance to redeem itself.
Karim khan for nobel peace prize and person of the year❤
It makes a mockery of the ICC. A bit like the UN… We live in sad times.