PHILOSOPHY - Religion: God and Morality, Part 1
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- Part 1 of a pair. Stephen Darwall (Yale University) considers the relationship between morality and God. Specifically, he asks: is morality the same thing as the commands of God? Is there no morality if there is no God? Ultimately, Stephen will argue that morality and God's commands are distinct, even if there is a God and she commands moral things. However, in this first video, Steve considers why you might like the view that morality just is God's commands.
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Morals are not a result of religion. They are a result of humanity.
Presuppositional apologists disagree
N what's human??? Even the bad things we do are human so it makes no sense
And humanity is the result of God
@@diogovara-y7s Gos is created by human just like santa claus.
As well as religions and gods.
"Is there morality without God?"
**SPOILER ALERT** : yes, there is.
KandaPanda He has a one problem: supernatural forces didn’t create morals. We did.
The people who had “good morals” tended to survive longer, thus passing on their traits. Those with “bad” traits died out earlier. Take example murder. A murderous tribe might have more food, but they will kill off each other in the end with other murderous tribes. The peaceful tribes however, mostly outlasted the violent ones, thus passing down that moral.
Other animals can have our seemingly “bad” morals too. Some animals kill their babies. While you might recoil at this, there is a simple explanation. Those animals eat their babies because there are simply too many of them. The animals that didn’t eat some of their babies didn’t have enough food for their offspring and eventually those morals died. But the animals... you get the point.
Our morals come, not from god, or any other supernatural force, but from nature. (More specifically, natural selection)
If there are certain things that you just cannot do (torturing babies) even if god exist and he said otherwise, then yes there is morality without God.
No there is not. Humans were never nice creatures among animals. The other animals are much more unuted with natute meanwhile thise among humans who deny God mostly are the ones emotionally abusing and exploiting others. There are only 1 % truly morale and faithful beings like me and i know i have been attacked by both self proclaimed religious peoppe that use the religion for their own benefit and atheists so yeah please only those believong god got to know moraltiy. We are animals. Imagine for example someone abuses me and harm me and bully and cornwr me in a world without god and imagine he is so smart to make me look liek an idiot the cops do not believe. I would be scared of my own life and what this guy would do to me so i wouldfight him because o feel hopeless and alone. But eith god i at least can pray and still forgive. We are human beings and our soul can crumble and be crushed to a point where we just go crazy so god and the faith keeps us from it. I tried to seek help everywhere bit none took me serious but once o went deeper into my religion Islam i felt peace and save. Even if modt misunderstand me and seek to destroy me mentally, God ((Allah)) helps me. Miracles happened. My life was almsot over and people almost ruined my future but i always got out even if it made no sense and i knew God wants me one who has no allies but is one of the most righteous or tries to be to survive. Humans who say we do not need god for morality just wabt to play the highest lifeform and continue to abuse life of other animals with their interference in everything. These people hate the fact that they can be judged and that in the end they are not above the law. A world without god wiuld be very dabgerous becuase it means people like me can be destroyed and tortured mentally without any justice but god created all pf life sp it is unthinkable that god does not exist. God is "beyond". Just let people believe what they want as you are only one individuals not everyone else. Speak for yourself because atheists and non-believers always come i groups. Never do they speak alone
No there is not. Humans were never nice creatures among animals. The other animals are much more unuted with natute meanwhile thise among humans who deny God mostly are the ones emotionally abusing and exploiting others. There are only 1 % truly morale and faithful beings like me and i know i have been attacked by both self proclaimed religious peoppe that use the religion for their own benefit and atheists so yeah please only those believong god got to know moraltiy. We are animals. Imagine for example someone abuses me and harm me and bully and cornwr me in a world without god and imagine he is so smart to make me look liek an idiot the cops do not believe. I would be scared of my own life and what this guy would do to me so i wouldfight him because o feel hopeless and alone. But eith god i at least can pray and still forgive. We are human beings and our soul can crumble and be crushed to a point where we just go crazy so god and the faith keeps us from it. I tried to seek help everywhere bit none took me serious but once o went deeper into my religion Islam i felt peace and save. Even if modt misunderstand me and seek to destroy me mentally, God ((Allah)) helps me. Miracles happened. My life was almsot over and people almost ruined my future but i always got out even if it made no sense and i knew God wants me one who has no allies but is one of the most righteous or tries to be to survive. Humans who say we do not need god for morality just wabt to play the highest lifeform and continue to abuse life of other animals with their interference in everything. These people hate the fact that they can be judged and that in the end they are not above the law. A world without god wiuld be very dabgerous becuase it means people like me can be destroyed and tortured mentally without any justice but god created all pf life sp it is unthinkable that god does not exist. God is "beyond". Just let people believe what they want as you are only one individuals not everyone else. Speak for yourself because atheists and non-believers always come i groups. Never do they speak alone
@@simonli4484 There were murderous tribes?
It wasn't religion that brought peace, it was society and its differences that brought peace. For example some of the highly religious places do not have peace, these places are also the places with a horribly structured society
Have you seen the US or Canda or really any place that has multiple religions? just because you don't see it doesn't mean there aren't religious wars going on. Also, differences do NOT always make peace especially with some of the bigger issues like religion or politics
You dont get the point
hmmm... what's morality? I don't think it's about "feelings" or "internal compass"....
Morality is the process of differentiating between intentions, decisions, and actions that are appropriate from those inappropriate. Each and every individual is the sole arbiter of his/her own morality. One cannot pass the responsibility of moral assessments onto a mythological deity. Each individual is soley responsible, capable, and culpable for their own intentions, decisions, and actions.
Murder is wrong because it's subjectively true, not Objectively true. Even a 10 year child who has no knowledge about morality knows that murder is wrong. Why does the brain tells us that muder or rape is wrong?
@@michaelmiller9191 Social evolution.
@@theoskeptomai2535 Is murder wrong? If it is then that's just your opinion.
@@michaelmiller9191 I consider murder immoral. Like I stated, each and every individual is the sole arbiter of his/her own morality.
@@michaelmiller9191 Wouldn't you agree?
morals existed before the bible. just look at Egypt and ancient meso America. one may argue that morals existed before written language
That's epistemological
God=/=the bible. If the being of God did exist, then objective morality would exist in all possible worlds. Even those without humans/moral agents
He has a one problem: supernatural forces didn’t create morals. We did.
The people who had “good morals” tended to survive longer, thus passing on their traits. Those with “bad” traits died out earlier. Take example murder. A murderous tribe might have more food, but they will kill off each other in the end with other murderous tribes. The peaceful tribes however, mostly outlasted the violent ones, thus passing down that moral.
Other animals can have our seemingly “bad” morals too. Some animals kill their babies. While you might recoil at this, there is a simple explanation. Those animals eat their babies because there are simply too many of them. The animals that didn’t eat some of their babies didn’t have enough food for their offspring and eventually those morals died. But the animals... you get the point.
Our morals come, not from god, or any other supernatural force, but from nature. (More specifically, natural selection)
@@simonli4484 we have a utalitarian here
I find the writing hand to be distracting and annoying to the point that I can't watch this.
Just listen lol
Morality had to exist before the notion of God arrived on the human landscape. Human societies already had laws and without fundamental moral pillars such as empathy, compassion, and reciprocity, civilizations would not have evolved to the point that allowed the invention of religion.
Try arguing that with a young earth nutcase
Human societies only had laws and moral pillars for there own society, They didn’t care for any outside of there civilization, Humans still ate each other, steal each other’s crops or food, destroy other civilizations, Without religion, humans will revert back to wild animals
@@RenzaissanceTV you should read up on what the Bible says about the Canaanites, and how the Israelites should deal with ttem.
@@benjamintrevino325 Reading fiction doesn’t help.
@@DLF218 that's what I was getting at.
Has anyone ever questioned the general idea of the word morality.
In reality, and historically, morality has always been fickle in nature. Meaning different societies through time have always adapted and adjusted to their own morality. Usually branched from some sort of religion. And social construct.
Presently. I find a lot of how people use morality. In regards to control and manipulation. To be nothing less than the same as ancient times.
The idea that the majority of the world cannot look at the human body. Which would be considered one of gods creations. And not sexualize it? To shame, creation itself? Is incredibly hypocritical to me.
I don’t believe that most people realize that much of our current standards of morality. Are based on unsubstantiated biblical stories such as. The virgin birth. And an asexual Messiah.
Yep we still hold ourselves back intellectually. And continue holding onto these toxic beliefs. Which benefit no one. Because ultimately any form of repression or shame, comes out of a human psyche as something very dysfunctional and dangerous.
How do we know we have the same morals as God and that he didn’t give us the opposite morals than us
He created us in his own image and gave us the 10 commandments.
Regardless of what society people live in they generally understand that it is wrong to kill, steal, cheat etc which are all included
Right, this is what I struggle with too. We see every day that people like televangelists tend to twist the words of God and people follow them regardless. How do we know the words of God weren't twisted right from the beginning?
Ok so we are still fighting the morality wars. The question posed is” without god, can anything be good or evil?” Apart from “of course it can, we decide our own morality “ being an answer, there are other ways of looking at it. One, obviously, is to dismiss the question on 3 grounds ( existence of god, demonstration of his morality, evidence that those following his morality are not particularly , er, moral.) another is that throughout the world, followers of 2700 gods, and followers of none recognise a general standard of morality which cannot have just come from one deity, and observably did not.
Like it or not, the confection of a supernatural being who decides the rules leads to planes flying into buildings, to beheadings, to bomb vests at pop concerts, to women being imprisoned for not wearing face coverings. Not because god didn’t decree this, but because he did. Read your holy book. Tell me the bastards who carry western hostage heads around in a bucket are not inspired by their god. Take your godly morality and ram it as far as it will go. Don’t you dare tell me you are more moral than I am.
A lot of Christian "morality" is nothing but PRUDISM anyway, which I think people can really DO WITHOUT.
“Without God, everything is morally permissible.” - Doestesvky
Oh yeah! Why would I do the bad thing on my own accord when I can use a "holy" book to justify it.
@@vacuousbard6410 exactly! Morality (right and wrong) isn’t supposed to be on one’s own accord which is subjectivism/ relativism. Surely, any moral wrong doing that a person does is condemned in the Bible.
Did you watch the video?
@Kitalia the kitsune in the south yeah they did . You right. Not in the North tho.
A lot of Christian "morality" is nothing but PRUDISM anyway, which I think people can really DO WITHOUT.
How do you address the contention that God is the "ground" of morality? Craig often contends that the being of God is the basis for objective moral values. It isn't simply that the commands of God are the basis for objective moral values. Then God's commands reflect his perfect nature which is the ground for objective moral value.
It also occurs to me that Divine Command theory still suffers from a "is-ought" issue as the Apologists are fond of telling Atheist they are subject to. Assuming that God's nature is indeed the ground for moral values and that his commands reflect those moral values, does not obviate that there is an obligation, and ought, to obey those commands.
"does not obviate that there is an obligation, and ought, to obey those commands."
As per Christianity, you *ought* to obey those commands because the Christian god, who morality is rooted in, has said you *ought* to.
It is not possible to give you a reason to obey said commands that is both 1) subjective, and 2) truthful, as "ought" is a moral claim, and if a moral truth is involved, it is no longer subjective but objective.
A lot of Christian "morality" is nothing but PRUDISM anyway, which I think people can really DO WITHOUT.
@@daivon7453 So would it be objectively moral if said god were to command rape, genocide or slavery? Should we ought to obey regardless of whether it really is the best decision.
@@enzoarayamorales7220 Were that the case, it would be the best case to obey.
The notion that it is not could be deviance from the objective morality, which is found in the commandment to do so.
If perents take their childrens lives they are immoral monsters.
But If God takes the lives of his children he is good?. Wtf. Christianity is seriously fucked up
This is the Euthyphro dillemma which has been addressed by multiple apologists.
It's not that Good > God or that God > Good, the answer is that God = Good, and to deviate from His nature would make him an imperfect being.
Bs
The most moral people I know are not religious.
wow ,is this supposed to a be a theory!!
Yes Stalin Kim jong of north korea the Chinese xi jing ping cause they don't have a religion with rules they eat almost anything n they even hide things cause they don't fear god they will do bad as long as they can get away with it bad "Rekigious" people aren't even religious cause they don't fear god
scifivideogames yup
Funny enough the Bible explains that pretty well.
1) Humans are “created in Gods image”
2) therefore we all have some built-in understanding of moral truth
3) we each make the choice to except or reject that inner understanding of right and wrong
A lot of Christian "morality" is nothing but PRUDISM anyway, which I think people can really DO WITHOUT.
The Lord said there are those who do the will of the Father though never hearing of God through man.
There’s an old joke where two lost tourists stop and ask a local man if he knows how to get to a certain town. The local man thinks for a bit and says, “yes, but you don’t want to start out from here.”
Reminds me of a joke:
Q. Can you tell me what time it is?
A. You mean now?
Do your students ever learn what God's laws are?
I traced back 1000s of years of my family history and found that my great great great great great great great great great great grandfather was a caveman named Arty and apparently he introduced the concept of morality way back at the dawn of humanity ! Another caveman was beating Arty over the head with a club but Arty, being the enlightened caveman he was , grunted out some sounds which in caveman language meant “hey stop hitting me over the head ! That hurts ! How about instead , I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine !” And walla ! The basic concept of morality was laid down thanks to my great caveman grandfather. No need for religion .
Arty was a profit of god. We should create a new religion after him.
All morality is subjectivley relative and it varies depending on the environment. Through discussion and experimentation we can come to objective moral decisions which best benefit everyone as we come closer and closer to the same type of environment. No god needed.
I may agree on the first part, but subjectivity plus subjectivity plus subjectivity is still subjectivity no matter how much discussion and experiment you do. "Everyone" is s superlative and is hard to enforce becuase there will be people who wull deviate from "everyone". It is impossible to cone to objectivity in this way if you claim moralitt is subjective.
You can claim that a certain moral standard is the best subjective or that it is conpatible with the most, but with your main claim, you cannot claim objectivity and "everyone".
Note that i am not atta king your viewpoint of morality is subjective. Im merely pointing out the logical flaw of what you said.
There can only be an objectvmive with God. Now whether God is real is irrelevant. God (in the judeochristian tradition) by definition is the standard of Good morality hence, Objective Morality. If you claim morality can be organizrd by humans through discussion and experimentation, then by definition since its just human opinion its subjective. With these premises, objective morality cannot be attained by humans. Only if you put God into an equationca you get morality that is objective. Again whyherGod is real is irrelevant. This is all within the realm of logical reasoning, thd only theistic part of what I said in this post is that I defined Hod in the Judeo Chrisitan sense.
@@seanpecson2858 You are right to say that there is no such thing as objective morality, because there will always be those who deviate from certain moral codes, no matter what. But that’s where the majority rules comes into play. For example, if the ratio for sexual assault/rape was 99 against it to 1 for it, does that 1 person really get a say? Likely not. While it is not objective because there is 1 going against the crowd, it is so near objective that we can safely state that it is objective. Now this does rise the question, what if there was an overwhelming majority that supported something we personally deem wrong, does that make our opinion meaningless? Perhaps it does, perhaps it doesn’t. I think that depends on whether or not you look at the world pessimistically or optimistically. Maybe if you tried exploring the other side’s perspective you would end up agreeing with the majority. Maybe you would explore it and still disagree with the majority. Maybe you would refuse to explore it. These are difficult parts of humanity, but something we just have to deal with.
Without God, there would be not right and wrong. So whatever we decide, that's subjective, not objective.
@@BerishaFatian It’s hard to make a concrete claim like that. There could be right or wrong without god, just think about people raised atheist/agnostic. They can be good people, but they don’t have any religious belief. Morality, even morality among religious people, is so subjective. I mean, if there was an OBVIOUS right and wrong, then why do some Christians feel differently about certain topics? Or some Muslims, or Jews? Shouldn’t they know which is right and wrong according to their religion? It’s not as simple as you stated.
@@elliefuller3667 You don't need to believe in God to know right and wrong, you just need God to exist for there to be right and wrong. If there's no God, then we're made in the image of the universe, and according to the universe there's no difference between you and a rock when it comes to value, which means hitting you and hitting a rock would be the same thing.
Theists individually can be moral, but they have no way to explain through faith why any act is right or wrong. Unless someone can manage it?
I believe we humans as the most social creature, capable of working/being part of giants communities developded these kind of rules for the good of our own giant tribe. Its likely that in the past it was common to steal food of other tribes for instance. Or a countey invade another for territory/resources. It all comes to the good of your tribe. You may be in doubt if murder is wrong or right but it is very much harder to think it is right to murder a brother or a member of your family. Thats because it is your close tribe. Therefore for me it all comes about how close the victims are to you. And the reason for this may be you dont want to be seen as evil, those people wouldnt do any good to you, or just the feeling of love if such exist.
I don't need god's commandments to not covet my neighbor's ox
But ur neighbors may need lol that's the point
Do you need a commandment for someone not to covet and steal your honey buns and car and wife and get away with it and there was nothing you could do about it and they knew it
You need a conscience, which is written on all hearts.
@@vojislavbelic896 not on all
@@scifivideogames lol all my neighboors are atheist. Maybee its because culture taught you so or it gives people who are shitty anyways.
Why would "the source of morality" be confined by people, or time?
One atheist wrote and said that he's a good person because he usually opens doors for others and will often help when asked. He obviously sets the bar just low enough that he can step over. That's what will always happen when we get to decide.
I guess it depends on the religion. The Jewish god of the old testament commanded his followers to kill babies and young children, and did the same himself. Some people make excuses for that, saying that a god can do nothing immoral. That's throwing the bar out the window. I decide for myself what is right and what is wrong based on putting myself in the other persons shoes. I don't rape because I don't want to be raped. I don't abort babies, because I wouldn't want to be aborted. I don't keep gay people from getting married, because I wouldn't want someone keeping me from getting married. I can see where some people need religion though. Phil Robertson from Duck Dynasty said that he would be a serial killer if he didn't have a god to fear. That's scary.
@@spuriouseffect I think knowing the future would be a real game changer. Self defense.
You say you put yourself in the other person's shoes when it comes to moral decision making. Isn't that just empathy? Why is that a good strategy?
I was unable to find the Phil Robertson quote. Many of us would admit that we would steal if we didn't fear being caught but I can't imagine a deep seated desire to be a serial killer.
@@matthewtenney2898 Churches really are hospitals for the sick. You don't steal because you wouldn't want to be stolen from, not because you fear being caught! LOL Empathy was Jesus' strategy. You should consider switching religions and becoming a Christian to learn something from him.
@@spuriouseffect I don't think I ever heard that empathy was Jesus strategy. The word is not in any translation that I can see. Compassion, yes but not empathy.
I grew up in a rough neighborhood and believe me, not stealing from others had no effect whatsoever on other people stealing from me.
@@matthewtenney2898 Without empathy, you cannot truly understand compassion. Without forgiveness, you will never understand empathy.
If God does not exist, everything is permitted .
You are saying that we should depend on Darwin to teach our children morality...
I'm a Christian but I thoroughly believe that people are good and bad regardless of whether they are religious or not. It's just that simple. I'm a firm believer and too much of anything is a bad thing. That leads to excess and greed in addition to radical ideologies. The same can go for religion because in some religions if you believe everything Word per word and you take it literally, Then sometime buy around the 1950s or 1970s Depending upon how religious once family is Some Teenagers and women would not be during menses because it was considered dirty. WHAT? Nasty! I'm Christian and my mother was raised a Baptist Christian and her stepmom would not let her bathe when she was on her menses. Gross! I'm the type of person that if somebody stinks they need to take a bath and that's the time of the month that a woman really really needs to Clean herself even if she just cleans that area. I felt bad for my mom when she told me that story. I used to think it was just old fashioned stuff but no no it's part of the 1st Testament. Just because somebody takes a bath during that time does not make them a bad person. There are things that people who are agnostic and atheist people do, and they don't believe in God. Even though The Bible Even though The Bible and other religious Other religious Teachings Many good attributes and can help Turn big time criminals into nice people. However I've known people who are not religious and don't believe in a God and are pure scientists but they are still nice people with good morals. I don't think wife is black-and-white and it's not always black white and Gray but people are human beings and full of multiple colors like a kaleidoscope. I've known people to be born to poor families and they are Christian but they don't go to church every week but if the parents really do their best to work and pay their bills and treat people kindly and correct to their children when their kids do things wrong, Like being a bully or something, Correcting a child over and over and positive and reinforcement will usually produce Teenagers and grown UPS that do have good morals even if they are not perfect human beings because none of us are perfect and we're not ever going to be perfect. Even in The Bible it says that we are made in God's image and yet we're born sinners and we are always imperfect and only god is perfect. No one should attain to be perfect but just be themselves and be the best version of themselves they can be.
My understanding of the classical theist view is that God simply is goodness itself. There is no distinction. This is how the euphryo delimima is solved, bc it's really a false choice. I think it still holds that without God all morals come down to just subjective or cultural preferences. I like chocolate ice cream you like vanilla, to each their own . I don't like torturing babies for fun, you do, to each their own? I can't hold to each your own in the 2nd case.
"I think it still holds that without God all morals come down to just subjective or cultural preferences. "
And with the God of the Bible, it is moral to own other people as your slaves.
@@cnault3244 there are many different ways to read and interpret scripture. Which is beside the point as the initial comment is about how it's difficult to ground morality objectively. How to break out of the subjectivist or culturally based box. How, if it is even possible, to say something are truly good while others are evil. The convetability between being & goodness put forward in the classical theistic view seems plausible by my lights.
@@markbirmingham6011 "there are many different ways to read and interpret scripture."
If the scripture is supposed to be the word of god, as many claim, why is there a need to interpret? Did god mumble or is god unable to get his message across clearly?
"the initial comment is about how it's difficult to ground morality objectively"
Since no one has been able to show that objective morality exists, that comment is moot.
"The convetability between being & goodness put forward in the classical theistic view seems plausible by my lights."
Sophistry. We can keep it simple.
Do you think it is moral to own another human being as property? Yes or no?
Do you think it is moral to punish a person for sins they have not committed? Yes or no?
Do you think it is moral to kill someone just for being a homosexual or for worshiping a different god? Yes or no?
The Bible says yes to all those things. That being the fact, is the Bible a good source for morality? Yes or no?
@@cnault3244 there's a lot there. Again, I'm not a biblical scholar. On your list of yes or no questions you seem to be appealing to some sense of morality I should have. Regarding your view that no one has proved objective morality to exist, again by my lights, we have justified eptstimic grounds to believe our moral intuations as real. I would need considerable evidence and arguments put forward to accept the moral relativist/subjectivity position. To accept the claim that there is nothing really wrong with torturing kids for fun, beyond it just being against social-cultural preferences. Regarding you just asserting sophistry to the view that being and goodness are convertible and therefore evil is privation, that's not quite a refutation. I'm sure such argugements exist, and I'm not a e expert, but that classical theistic worldview, for me, seems plausible.
@@markbirmingham6011 "On your list of yes or no questions you seem to be appealing to some sense of morality I should have. "
They were simple straightforward questions that can be answered yes or no. Simple. But you didn't answer them.
" To accept the claim that there is nothing really wrong with torturing kids for fun, "
Who is claiming that? I asked you simple questions.
Do you think it is moral to own another human being as property? Yes or no?
Do you think it is moral to punish a person for sins they have not committed? Yes or no?
Do you think it is moral to kill someone just for being a homosexual or for worshiping a different god? Yes or no?
It would be wrong for God to expect people to follow morals because he has the ability to make morality redundant to begin with
This is circular.
He says if there were no God's commands then nothing would be right or wrong.
Well, if there were no God, then we wouldn't be here.
So for us to exist and have free will there must be a creator in their view.
So this was a wasted video with no argument.
Excuse me if your god don't like slavery why is it mandated and encouraged in your Bible? Yavhe couldn't wrote "you shall not own an other human beeing" but instead say "get yours slaves from surroundings lands"
People are highly immoral when influenced .
I learned in this experience I had I was Surprised how immoral people are.
You’d be horrified to know what people would do.
That’s why it’s hard to trust people on every level.
Trust people with your passwords, bank card, and personal information .
Can you do it?
Why? Cause people are highly immoral and can’t be trusted
Excellent point. Most people would take advantage of info like that if presented to them. The only thing stopping them? Threat of consequences, such as imprisonment. This is the nature of a human, we have been hardwired since our beginning to take advantage of every situation in order to benefit ourselves, first and foremost, next being loved ones. That’s how we survived as cavemen, that’s how animals survive in the present day. Selfishness was necessary, so unless humans eventually grow so far from our instincts that the instinct of selfishness fades, we will always be influenced to bend or break our moral codes.
Many married couples trust each other with passwords bank cards and personal info . Some work out just fine others don’t
Morality is subjective for all of us even with the divine command theory. Who says god is good? god seems quite evil at times in the Bible.
@@redeemedbygracejohn5755 what?
@@teachpeace3750 If you are the only one who Thinks Murder is wrong Because its your own personal feelings then its subjective. Murdering someone is Immoral and it is indeed an Objective factual truth where all of us agree and know that murdering someone is wrong . So your comments that says morality is subjective is completely a wrong Assessment
@@teachpeace3750 The previous comment made no sense sorry for that
The problem with your illustration from Huck Finn is that God's moral law [in your context will be from the teachings of Jesus Christ] does not condone slavery which directly contradicts the Golden Rule and the Law of Love. In this perspective, it was the law of man which contradicts the law of Jesus and Huck Finn was correct in following the Moral Law of Christ which are the Law of Love and the Golden Rule.
Jesus never explicitly condemned slavery.
Jesus doesn’t explicitly address several biblical topics… That’s a horrible way to justify a terrible example of exegesis of scripture. Read the Good Samaritan in Luke 10 and tell me it isn’t applicable to the issue at hand…. The way the Bible was distorted and manipulated to justify slavery was the same texts that lead Abraham Lincoln to free the slaves…
And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing. If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever: but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.
The god of the bible explicitly condoned, and indeed regulated slavery. e.g. Masters could beat their slaves without penalty, according to these divine commands, as long as the slaves didn't die within a day or two.
The god of the bible ordered genocides, the murder of all men, women and children and babies of tribes in order to steal their land. The god of the bible ordered the stoning to death of girls who couldn't prove their virginity, unruly children, adulterers, sabbath breakers, etc, etc, etc.
To suggest the biblical god has made even a single positive contribution to human morality is obscene in the extreme.
1:25 and you already fucced up again the morality and god would be one, it's not a command you've completely strawmaned the actual argument
What if God is the bad guy. How about if God is truly the evils of man manifest before him?. Only God is good and there is no one such as God.. but how about if it is an envy(God) and the only evil that happens is when "God" is envious of the rightness if man. How about if Man is God and the richest or more powerful are God and MUST be considered God?
If a person lives a good life and have forgiven oneslef thier "sin"..but God ". " Is excluded from the equation...is God truly nessesery both as Man or "Spirit". Isnt "God" just a statuses like President or King, to be obtained through pelf or strength?
As it was before.. man showed his worth and strength and " it was good".. but these days.. is God truly needed?. As intellectual beings, is God not just A Word..meaningless unless someone or oneself gives it value?
This guy teaches at Yale? He made like 4 different errors in presenting his argument. Yikes.
This explanation created a false god and then said that this false god need not exist since this other force, which he called morality, could contradict said god. But the God as in the Bible doesn’t just issued laws, he is the law. He is like math: 1+ 1=2. He is this equation. God isn’t separate from morality.
Which are based simply on beliefs and generated out of fears like God like things are illusionery. No God or so.
That does not prove morality is from God, If Morality was from God than we would all agree on the same laws.
Which would Indicate two or more things, either there is more than one god or we have a conscience which differs from person to person. Which would mean we are relying on our individual conscience, experiences and education which would explain the difference in opinions.
The way I see it morality is what the majority agree upon, it isn't necessary an absolute.
Divine Morality would be when more then 99.99 percent or close to that, Of people can see that it is wrong.
One person believing they have done the right thing does not I mean they have.
an unseen god just simply doesn't exist plain and simple
Why Do you need to see something in order for that someone or something to exist?
Your argument is inconsistent and you make a strawman of slavery in the bible while assuming that God commands people to obey the law of the land over his commands in the Bible.
I don't claim to know everything, but if you teach this, then you need to do your due diligence and read/watch Christian philosophers to understand the argument better so you don't accidentally make a strawman out of it.
Bring up the slavery in the Bible even if its the slavery you think it is, is still a red Herring.
"Is god necessary for morality?"
That would depend on what this alleged god says is moral. Since this god hasn't said anything to me my morality must come from me.
A lot of Christian "morality" is nothing but PRUDISM anyway, which I think people can really DO WITHOUT.
@@samsendar5155 A lot of Christian morality is following what prophets (aka other humans) tell them, so I would take any Christian sermons with a grain of salt.
i wonder what that morality is like
The one moral that trumps all - Might Makes Right
Even the most moral, principled can be made to follow Hitler and not even realize they are doing it! See Religion
I thought the golden rule, treat others the way you want to be treated, was the moral that trumps all 🤔
@@elliefuller3667 And yet religions like Christianity & Islam dump billions of unbelievers into hell - we are talking pregnant women, children, even babies, loving families - all callously set apart based on belief alone & dumped into gas chambers in hell to be brutalized forever!
AND THEY SAY THIS OPENLY!
So much for the Golden Rule
@@ramaraksha01 Excellent point ‼️
@@elliefuller3667 Thank you - most theists starts abusing me when I say this
What frightens me is the silence of the educated & esp the morals
These ideas of division and hate based on religion are PRMOTED OPENLY!
They are not hiding these ideas & yet the silence
Basically reducing a person to just a belief - nothing else matters - who we are as people, what we did in life, morals, values - none matter
How is that any different from blacks being condemned for their skin color?
Jews condemned by the Nazis for just being Jews?
The above 2 are evil, but religious hate is OPEN!
Can't believe I live in the 21st century!
How is it that religion is able to brainwash even the best of minds? Not even ATHEISTS speak up!
Amazing!
@@ramaraksha01 Oh I’m not a theist, I’m atheist/agnostic through and through! I think organized religion needs to be abolished. Only religion should be individual worship.
In my opinion morality does not exist without god , of there's no god then the whole universe and everything is created of matter and matter does not have morality it doesn't know what's evil or what's good
HERE IS WHAT THE BIBLE TELLS US - About Morality. Please cite the passages that promote morality.
1. You can own slaves. You can buy and sell slaves. You can even sell your own daughter (Exodus 21:7-10). If she fails to please her master, you must refund him the purchase price..
2. You can beat the living shit out of your slaves without being punished, as long as they do not die within two days (Exodus 20:20-21). Under what standards of morality is it ever okay to beat another human being like that and not suffer any consequences? It is reassuring the bible endorses property rights, but a source of morality it is not.
3. The bible not only condones slavery but sets prices for them (Leviticus 27:3-7). The bible obviously was concerned about human traffickers getting a fair price for their goods.
4. Surely Jesus had compassion towards slaves. He tells slaves to be obedient and subservient. That is why slave owners in the Americas pushed Christianity onto their slaves and punished those caught practicing their ancient religions.. Very reassuring. Accorging to Jesus, it was okay to beat slaves, those who unwittingly made mistakes were to be given few lashes, those who knowingly violated rules were to be given many lashes. Ownership rights, you know.
5. Thou shalt not kill. Now THERE is a good one. However, it seems there are exceptions:
No sooner had Moses returned from his first trip up the mountains to find a party to which he had not been invited, in a fit of rage he orders his Levite goon squad to murder "every man his brother, and every man his friend and every man his neighbor." Exodus 32:28 "The Levites did as Moses commanded and that day about 3000 of the people died." 'Tough Love' maybe?
6. But there are others. The bible requires the faithful to put to death by stoning;
Adulterers (Deuteronomy 22:23-24, Leviticus 20:10);
Homosexuals (Leviticus 20:13),
Non virgins (Deuteronomy 22:20-21),
any of your neighbors foolish enough to mow their lawn on the Sabbath (Exodus 31:12-15,Exodus 35:1-3,Numbers 15:32-36).
7. Oh, and speaking of rape, surely that ranks high on the ‘Thou shalt nots’ of the ten commandments. NO??? It is not even mentioned???
An oversight perhaps? But then it was so important to forbid mixing fabrics or cooking a kid in its mother's milk (so important that it needed to be repeated three times) and such. Take a look at these REALLY important commandments (there are different versions within the bible). Thou shalt not:
Worship other gods
Work on the Sabbath (death penalty crime)
Take the name of the lord in vain (OMG, ANOTHER capital crime)
Make graven images
Covet thy neighbor’s wife or house or ass
And, oh yes, ‘thou shalt not kill’ and ‘thou shalt not steal’ are in there somewhere near the bottom. But rape? Not one word!!!
How about elsewhere in the bible? Surely somewhere the bible must condemn rape, no?
Oh, yes, here; Deuteronomy 22:28-29 28 "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives"
*YESSS! There it is. Rape is a PROPERTY crime*. The rapist has damaged the father’s PROPERTY and it is he that must be compensated. What justice for the victim of the rape? She has to marry her rapist. Surely she lived happily ever after, no? And what if they were not discovered and the girl kept quiet out of fear?
The bible is quite clear about the fate of girls who are not virgins on their wedding day. Here, as elsewhere in the bible, women are chattel and have no say in their future.
It is interesting to note that, while the bible mandates death by stoning for adulterers and non virgin brides, raping an unbethrothed virgin incurred only a monetary penalty. This is biblical justice?
8. The bible endorses mass murder and sex slavery. Numbers 31:14-18 "14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army-the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds-who returned from the battle. 15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
Numbers 31:35 - "And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him." THIRTY TWO THOUSAND VIRGINS being divided up to be used by “god’s chosen people” at the same time their mothers and brothers by the tens of thousands were being slaughtered like animals. Many of those women would have been pregnant, their unborn fetus dying inside them. And what would have been the crime of young boys of whatever age? 2? 4? 10? There was no distinction about age. This is GENOCIDE, condemned by civilized nations of the world.
If you fail to feel a deep sense of moral outrage at this, how do you condemn ISIS for doing far less? Genocide in whatever form is an ugly stain on humanity. To claim it to be a moral act is the ultimate evil. Why then, should you regard the bible as a moral guide? Is ISIS any less evil?
So what response do we hear from zealots? Shock? Horror? No! Their predicable response is indifference and a callous “They had it coming to them.” We have heard those words echoed by unrepentant Nazis and the barbaric ISIS. And how does that equate to morality? Are not empathy and compassion the cornerstones of morality? Where then is there any morality here?
Perhaps it was just an oversight that the bible nowhere condemns slavery, or rape or molesting children, but yet it was so important to forbid mixing fabrics or cooking a kid in its mother's milk (so important that it needed to be repeated three times). What does that say about biblical priorities?
If the bible is the source of your 'morality', call a mental health hotline, NOW..
God sends Abraham to murder his own son, clearly an immoral act. Abraham is perfectly willing to do so. And for this, the bible praises Abraham. To a rational person, morality is doing what's right, no matter what one is told. Biblical morality is doing what you are told no matter what.
Although an angel was sent to 'stay Abraham's hand', no such courtesy was given Jephthah's daughter made into a burnt offering to the lord (Judges 11:29-40). That should be enough to turn anyone's stomach. And what of Jephthah? Was this murderer of an innocent child punished in any way? Was he condemned? NO. He is PRAISED. THE BIBLE TACITLY APPROVES OF HUMAN SACRIFICE.
To suggest that morality stems from religion is not only wrong, it is frightening. You don't need religion to have morals. If you can't determine right from wrong, you lack empathy, not religion. And the bible has a special message for women: "STFU". We see at every turn they are denied the rights afforded to men; they were regarded as property, either of their father or their husband. It can be a source of pride for women that apparently not a single one of them participated in the writing of the bible. The rights that women have today were not granted them by the bible, they had to fight for them. The bible endorses misogyny.
Some of the rules in the bible are downright strange. Take Leviticus 15:19- 24 for instance that forbids contact with a woman while she is "unclean" (during her period). I mean how is a guy to know? Surely it is impolite to ask. Donald Trump has a way of finding out, but I doubt the average guy could get away with it.
Atheists have greater claim to morality than those who espouse religion. They are moral because it is the intelligent way to behave towards our fellow man, not out of expectation of reward or fear of punishment. If you are "moral" because of those constraints, you are a very dangerous person.
Slavery still exists, but it has been made illegal in virtually every part of the world, NOT because of guidance from the bible, but because it was the right thing to do. Morality stems from empathy and concern for our fellow man. Good people will do good things, bad people will do bad things; but for good people to do bad things, that takes religion. Dictators take control of a populace by instilling fear of punishment, how is religion any different than that?
Mark Twain once said "It ain't the parts of the bible I don't understand that bother me, it's the parts I DO understand."
Now the question: Do YOU understand why the bible is said to be the source of morality? Because I sure don't. Only brainwashed Christians can overlook all this evil doings/teachings in the Bible.
@@irishnich4456 I'm not even christian dude chill out
@@MANMAN-yr7yb Good to know.
@@irishnich4456 thank you for this comment, can you whatsapp it to me? I need to save it
@@MANMAN-yr7yb why couldn't morality occur naturally without a God?
I see no reason to think that it couldn't be an emergent property. In the same way that no hydrogen or oxygen molecules have the property of wetness, but if you put enough of them together, you suddenly have this new property that is not present in any of the constituents.
수많은 신들 중에서 어느 신을 기준으로 하나요?
this video is not sigma
Good is life, evil is death and sin is a desire to do something that leads to death.
To be moral, one must be harmless by never enriching yourself upon the misery of another.
In short, be a pacifist, be a vegetarian and never own more wealth then the poor.
👏👏👏
But I don’t wanna live besides dumpsters and eat vegetables all day. I need other food too. So are rich people evil now? How about the soldiers that fought for our freedom? Are they evil for killing other soldiers? I’m honestly confused, are people who eat meat evil?
You contributed/presented/represented/displayed/proved/shamelessly/and even yet MIRACULOUSLY showed God justice through your hard and devoted work. I have faith in you and always will due to this video. Never let anything nor anyone detour you from this mindset you have formed creating and publishing this video 💜❤💯
let no one ever detour you from your delusions?? spoken like a true superstitious schizophrenic indeed... you know why they call it the religion of slaves right? LOL because you have to be a slave to buy that bullshit in the first place buddy
so be my guest and keep that cage locked up tight against any of us freethinkers, because heaven forbid one of us should set you free from your own enslavement
This should be my youtube name. Wen is in contact with me. Let's set up a google doc or some other medium to have a discussion.
Since god isn't
Time Space Matter
it's non existent
How about this statement. Is this true, because its not in space in time and its certainly not made from matters
shout out sa BSCR 1C dyan na nanonood
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Lakasssss
HAHAHAHA syeeet na shawawt man sawakas
Kirk lang malakas hahah
529 account. 23 squared. 23 = 666.
We are honing in on the objective morality ground into the physics of the inexplicably ordered universe. This universe is ordered because we it was consciously intended to be so.
a god would have to be a god of time space and matter if it's not it simply doesn't exist
Question: is that statement have to be in space in time in order it exists?
@@vashthestamped7653 They mean that in order for a god to truly exist, it has to be a god with control over time, space, and matter.
@@vashthestamped7653 Yes, obviously.
@@gives_bad_advice ok, so what are the material properties of this statement?
@@vashthestamped7653 written language is made from symbols which can be made from all sorts of things. In this case the symbols are displayed electronically.
TABAN TABAN NA SANA HAHAHA
well riddle me this batman, if God was necessary for Morality how do you explain all the moral and ethical practices of people who firmly do not believe in a made up God and were raised in households of scientific thinkers...the question answers itself...do you NEED god, absolutely not, but for others they have to have fables to illuminate the path for them no matter how misguided it is, they still need a learning method to get them there....so it would seem the fault lies in the lack of education rather than someone's particular flavor of made up gods...
If we are talking about the God of the Old Testament, then he has no moral authority. Not only is he not moral in the slightest, he does not wish us to be either.
Morality is a human standard, ingrained over thousands of years. We know what is right or wrong, and act accordingly. By which I mean that we know when something is wrong, but may decide to do it anyway. It’s still wrong, whether we do it or not, and we know that. We do not need an amoral god to lecture us on that.
Why do secularists always refer back to the OT to prove a point that God was evil? Did you forget that he created life?
@@joshuas.6245 Well. I think you have to go a long way to support your second point. I’m happy to listen to you on that. On the first point though, we can’t just ignore the OT can we? Even if he is a “loving “ god in T2, and that is very much up for discussion,unless you disregard T1, it exists, and you can’t deny that. On a fine point, the word I used was not evil, it was Amoral. My point is that he never ever had moral authority.
This is like listening to a child reason. You really think substituting man's law for god's in your argument passes for logical? Lol. If this is what one gets for the enormous expense of a Yale education then they're getting shafted.
Joel Waugh God never came down and wrote those books. So it's a humans morals if we're being honest
He is trying to make sense of where man's law came from. Differentiate what you believe to be God's law, and man's law.
It's from God.
You cannot claim that because you cannot prove that. You don’t even really know if god would follow the morals and ethics we do. You can’t even confirm god exists. As a rule, I generally say “if you can’t confirm it, you shouldn’t say it.” This applies to god as well as science in my book.
Any proof buddy?
@@elliefuller3667 you can't either disprove it.
Where do moral come from?
Can you confirm that in your saying?
@@snek_47 creation. Law of nature.
@@daddada2984 This doesn’t prove anything dude