When I started my EE career we had a bunch of these machines both as host machines for some very special hardware (over SCSI of course) and for running 24 hour long compiles. They are simply bulletproof, only time they ever went down was when we had to reboot them due to a driver issue with for the attached hardware.
Yes! It was fun to get back to working on this kind of stuff. After getting the machines to boot... I already ordered some upgrades. More videos to come!
The reason the 2nd ultra 60 and the ultra 10 took so long to come up is because the nvram is dead so they did a full diagnostic test. If you plug into the serial port you can see the 1000 or whatever tests it does.
That makes sense. I didn't notice until pretty late in the editing process that the NVRAM in the first Ultra 60 still had data. This explains the difference between the systems. I didn't remember the difference being so dramatic on the SPARCstation 5, but... it didn't have 2GB RAM!
@@Myself-yh9rr Apple had been standardizing on more PC-ish hardware as early as1995, with the introduction of PCI and IDE on their entry level offerings (and even before that, much of what they did was standard, just not to PCs - e.g. NuBus and SCSI), and by 1998 their full range had PCI and (with the introduction of the G3 Macintoshes) IDE. Macs of this time period (and starting with the second generation Power Macs) also used OpenFirmware, which is an implementation of OpenBoot, making Macs quite similar to Sun systems (and, unsurprisingly, even closer in similarity to IBM RS/6000 workstations, which also used OpenFirmware and PowerPC chips). I'd estimate that Macintosh part compatibility was likely very similar to Sun part compatibility of the time, with some differences based on architecture and firmware implementation.
I had previously missed this whole generation of Sun machines. I used the SPARCstations that came before and the Blade workstations that came after, so this was new for me too. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
The UltraSPARC II processor cards also remind me of the cards used in second generation Power Macintosh machines - I really like that generation of machine from Apple because a lot of those computers are very upgradeable. I have a Power Macintosh 7600, as well as a few Sun systems, and I love working on them. Great video :)
I would have thought the almost 50lbs of computer would be enough to prevent theft. Lol. The cable through the plastic block would also prevent people from opening the case.
Amazing systems and a very funny video. And yes, the serial port really helps in this process. I cannot wait to see how you install the OS. I will have to do it on my two Sun in storage and would really learn from you !!
I used to work for Sun back in the days. I hated working on those because customers would always try to do their own thing with them. I rarely worked on them as I worked mainly on the server/enterprise stuff. I left about a little over 2 years to start my own thing. Wasn’t the smartest move. Dot com crash came shortly after. But I did have a couple of sun Ultra Enterprises 2 machines fully loaded. Customers who upgraded just gave them to me. Last machines I recall working on was the E10K. The computer that came with another computer just to talk to it. 😂😂. Sadly I don’t remember anything from those days except the gbic disaster that plague Sun’s hardware. I think the ibm brand were the faulty ones. I don’t recall. I did enjoy working there though. Except for some clients, looking at you major bank that will be unnamed in the “Citi”
The caps lock key will occasionally blink on a Sun keyboard while it's booting, but the serial terminal is the best way, in case there is a problem with the keyboard or framebuffer. I use a laptop with null model cable.
I've been looking at disk options for all of these machines. The IDE-to-SATA converter would be pretty good for the U10, but it would still suffer from the slow integrated IDE controller. Sun made a SAS controller for the U60, but it has to go in the PCI slot that a faster video card (like the Expert 3D) would want to be in.
In so many ways, patience is for sure a virtue in this hobby. I don't think it would be doing fsck until after starting an OS... but maybe I'm wrong? It may well have been doing some kind of diagnostics. Next time I start it up, I'll have a terminal connected to the console serial port. I'm sure some information was being logged there.
I have a Sun U60 which I upgraded quite a bit. I think it's got 2x 333Mhz, 2GB RAM, USB card, GigEthernet card & XVR-600 graphics which run Quake very fast! 300gb scsi running Solaris 10.
That's good to know! I have an XVR-600, and I wondered if it would work in the U60. The official support chart says no, but... I couldn't think of a reason why it wouldn't.
MII = Media-independent interface (IEEE 802.3u), used for 100 Mbps Ethernet, the replacement for the AUI ports often used for 10 Mbps Ethernet. IIRC these ports were not that common, as I understand it by this time either fixed ports or modules like GBIC (later replacd by SFP) had already started to take over but makes sense on a motherboard ports. Variants of the basic MII signalling is often used even today up to at least 10G.
Had the later model Ultra 60 configured like your model. I had to turn it off in summer because of all the heat it generated. The first Ultra 60 with the quad port gigabit NIC was probably a firewall. We used to run CheckPoint on Ultra 60s back in the day
My E420R is an Ultra 80 in a rack mount case. I saved a lot of money on a NVRAM chip by buying a generic one and reprogramming it from Open Boot. Details are out there. You should hook up a serial terminal to see that. Null modem + Putty on a PC. 9600/8/n/1.
I need to dig out my null modem cable for debugging the Ultra 10. I did that before with the SPARCstation 10. The previous NVRAM chips that I got were from somewhere like Digikey. This time I ordered some from a seller on Amazon. We'll see how that goes. Also... very envious of both the Ultra 80 and the rack mount case! There's a kit to make the Ultra 60 rack mountable, and that would be nice.
If you order replacement NVRAM chips online, they're likely new-old-stock - meaning they've been ticking and discharging ever since they were manufactured. At least that was the case with one I ordered a few years ago. Ultimately, I was able to do some battery surgery and recover the chips (including the new one), but it's not exactly simple. Most instructions I've seen say to dremel away at the chip to access the battery terminals, but I used a heat gun instead to soften the shell and epoxy and peel it off. Maybe I should've documented it in video form...
SUN uses Sync on Green video signal. I have a number of those 13W3 to VGA15 adapters they work with some higher end CRT monitors (including non-SUN ones) but I never saw an LCD monitor working with Sync on Green. I guess they exist since SUN toward the end sold some SUN branded LCD monitors but not encountered those either.
History of... a particular system or of the company? I think there are a few videos about the rise and fall of Sun, but I don't know of any about specific systems or components.
Cool video! I have an Ultra 10 ‘Elite 3D’ version. Does anyone know what that is? Can’t seem to find any info on it Will dig out the specs but the graphics card looks similar to yours and has heat sinks on the chips.
I suspect that just has either an Elite3D m3 or Elite3D m6 card instead of the Creator card. I have acquired some of these cards, and I'm trying to get a video about them out later this year. Other things keep cropping up though.
Maybe I'm too early in the video, but if you don't get video output after a few minutes your best bet is the serial console. Since the nvram is flat, they'll come up in full diag-mode and will let you know absolutely everything going on during startup. Also, the '60 is a lightweight compared to the tank that is the ultra 80. Those mf's are nearly 30kg😰 The server stuff gets even crazier from there edit: that dvd-rom is a sun part. It's just from a later system once they changed the colour scheme a bit
For that Ultra 10, you did not press that front button (at least not on camera); maybe that was the power on? Note that the LED above it was off too. I remember having one of the Ultra 60 machines at work, it was always on and connected to a network with many network computers. I do not know the configuration because the IT guru was managing those remotely from another location and the IT departament at the factory only dealt with Windows machines.
Hollly crap!! BAck in those times probably 10000% of then Linux users were deliriously contemplating about getting those as a personal domestic computer! Their specs sounded like melodies and voices from the future
I miss the old Sun gear with Slow Solaris installed. Loved the graphics, hated the speed. Their saving grace is when you slap a fresh copy of Linux on them, they are tolerably usable again
It should run, but I would fully expect it to be a slideshow. Those cards don't have any texture mapping hardware, so all the rendering will be done by the CPU. I *will* give this a try!
@@TalesofWeirdStuff You may be right, again I heard it second hand. Expert3D could definitely do it from its specs. Elite3D is a bit low on texture fill rate I guess, and I'm not sure about Creator3D - it uses the UPA bus and main system memory for texture mapping. Not sure about the differences between Creator models that you mentioned.
Make fully working one arround 2*UltraSparc3 at 450mhz + 2 graphics card ( one 3D one basic for dual head) + gigabit *4 net card and keep lower specs one for parts (MB, power, CPU s) also move SCSI HDD into working one - Solaris on one possible preinstalled ?!? - maybe a Linux on second
![[LIVE] MCHOICE & MINT AWARDS 2024 at TRUE ICON HALL, ICONSIAM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wMewUeT5nbY/mqdefault.jpg)
That grey and purple was by far the best aesthetic for 90's workstations... and the pizza box design was one of the coolest of it's era.
When I started my EE career we had a bunch of these machines both as host machines for some very special hardware (over SCSI of course) and for running 24 hour long compiles. They are simply bulletproof, only time they ever went down was when we had to reboot them due to a driver issue with for the attached hardware.
Nice seeing some proper workstations
Yes! It was fun to get back to working on this kind of stuff. After getting the machines to boot... I already ordered some upgrades. More videos to come!
@@TalesofWeirdStuffthis reminds me that I should be getting back to resurrecting the Ultra-3 mobile workstation I picked up a while back…
The reason the 2nd ultra 60 and the ultra 10 took so long to come up is because the nvram is dead so they did a full diagnostic test. If you plug into the serial port you can see the 1000 or whatever tests it does.
This is the answer. A new/repaired NVRAM chip and turning off the extended self tests with "setenv diag-switch? false" should fix it
That makes sense. I didn't notice until pretty late in the editing process that the NVRAM in the first Ultra 60 still had data. This explains the difference between the systems. I didn't remember the difference being so dramatic on the SPARCstation 5, but... it didn't have 2GB RAM!
The 10 is basically a PC but with a UltraSPARC CPU...
Yeah... and a UPA slot for graphics instead of an AGP slot. They were definitely designed to be as inexpensive as possible by using commodity parts.
@@TalesofWeirdStuff If it was made by Apple it would not work with any parts most people would have. I will never buy an Apple device!
@@Myself-yh9rr Apple had been standardizing on more PC-ish hardware as early as1995, with the introduction of PCI and IDE on their entry level offerings (and even before that, much of what they did was standard, just not to PCs - e.g. NuBus and SCSI), and by 1998 their full range had PCI and (with the introduction of the G3 Macintoshes) IDE. Macs of this time period (and starting with the second generation Power Macs) also used OpenFirmware, which is an implementation of OpenBoot, making Macs quite similar to Sun systems (and, unsurprisingly, even closer in similarity to IBM RS/6000 workstations, which also used OpenFirmware and PowerPC chips).
I'd estimate that Macintosh part compatibility was likely very similar to Sun part compatibility of the time, with some differences based on architecture and firmware implementation.
fantastic vid as always! ive never seen them sun stations before im from the uk and i dont get to see them
I had previously missed this whole generation of Sun machines. I used the SPARCstations that came before and the Blade workstations that came after, so this was new for me too. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
The UltraSPARC II processor cards also remind me of the cards used in second generation Power Macintosh machines - I really like that generation of machine from Apple because a lot of those computers are very upgradeable. I have a Power Macintosh 7600, as well as a few Sun systems, and I love working on them. Great video :)
That "plasticky" bit with a case screw through it is a Kensington lock, its for using wire to lock it to the desk, preventing theft
I would have thought the almost 50lbs of computer would be enough to prevent theft. Lol. The cable through the plastic block would also prevent people from opening the case.
Amazing systems and a very funny video. And yes, the serial port really helps in this process. I cannot wait to see how you install the OS. I will have to do it on my two Sun in storage and would really learn from you !!
Replacement NVRAM chips have arrived, so I hope to start installing operating systems this weekend. :)
@@TalesofWeirdStuff Whohoo !!!!! Getting the popcorn ready 😀
I used to work for Sun back in the days. I hated working on those because customers would always try to do their own thing with them. I rarely worked on them as I worked mainly on the server/enterprise stuff.
I left about a little over 2 years to start my own thing. Wasn’t the smartest move. Dot com crash came shortly after.
But I did have a couple of sun Ultra Enterprises 2 machines fully loaded. Customers who upgraded just gave them to me. Last machines I recall working on was the E10K. The computer that came with another computer just to talk to it. 😂😂.
Sadly I don’t remember anything from those days except the gbic disaster that plague Sun’s hardware. I think the ibm brand were the faulty ones. I don’t recall. I did enjoy working there though. Except for some clients, looking at you major bank that will be unnamed in the “Citi”
The caps lock key will occasionally blink on a Sun keyboard while it's booting, but the serial terminal is the best way, in case there is a problem with the keyboard or framebuffer. I use a laptop with null model cable.
Sun owner here.
Got the little brother, Ultra5. As a disk i bougt a ide to sata converter.
Works great!
I've been looking at disk options for all of these machines. The IDE-to-SATA converter would be pretty good for the U10, but it would still suffer from the slow integrated IDE controller. Sun made a SAS controller for the U60, but it has to go in the PCI slot that a faster video card (like the Expert 3D) would want to be in.
@@TalesofWeirdStuff my U5 came with a pci scsi controller. Yeah, your U60 looks pretty cool. PCI-X gives a lot of options
Thanks for sharing! Very interesting and cool hardware to play with.
Dictionary definition of workstations right. Ready to work and massive battle stations.
9.5 minutes with a 9 minute FSCK the first time? Not so bad. 😆 Patience is a virtue when dealing with retro hardware.
In so many ways, patience is for sure a virtue in this hobby. I don't think it would be doing fsck until after starting an OS... but maybe I'm wrong? It may well have been doing some kind of diagnostics. Next time I start it up, I'll have a terminal connected to the console serial port. I'm sure some information was being logged there.
I took hundred of Suns, SGIs, NeXTs apart in the 90s this was at a Reclamation Company in the Santa Clara.
I have a Sun U60 which I upgraded quite a bit. I think it's got 2x 333Mhz, 2GB RAM, USB card, GigEthernet card & XVR-600 graphics which run Quake very fast! 300gb scsi running Solaris 10.
That's good to know! I have an XVR-600, and I wondered if it would work in the U60. The official support chart says no, but... I couldn't think of a reason why it wouldn't.
MII = Media-independent interface (IEEE 802.3u), used for 100 Mbps Ethernet, the replacement for the AUI ports often used for 10 Mbps Ethernet. IIRC these ports were not that common, as I understand it by this time either fixed ports or modules like GBIC (later replacd by SFP) had already started to take over but makes sense on a motherboard ports. Variants of the basic MII signalling is often used even today up to at least 10G.
I worked for a University EE department from 2001 till 2004 and they were using a SSU10 as a staff mail/shell server at the time and did until 2012 🤣
I can totally believe that. In 1998 my university was still using a Sun 3/60 as a print server in one of the labs. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Had the later model Ultra 60 configured like your model. I had to turn it off in summer because of all the heat it generated. The first Ultra 60 with the quad port gigabit NIC was probably a firewall. We used to run CheckPoint on Ultra 60s back in the day
My E420R is an Ultra 80 in a rack mount case. I saved a lot of money on a NVRAM chip by buying a generic one and reprogramming it from Open Boot. Details are out there. You should hook up a serial terminal to see that. Null modem + Putty on a PC. 9600/8/n/1.
I need to dig out my null modem cable for debugging the Ultra 10. I did that before with the SPARCstation 10. The previous NVRAM chips that I got were from somewhere like Digikey. This time I ordered some from a seller on Amazon. We'll see how that goes.
Also... very envious of both the Ultra 80 and the rack mount case! There's a kit to make the Ultra 60 rack mountable, and that would be nice.
In the early 90's I had a Sun 3/60 I used as a monochrome X term for a 486-66 with 16MB I had that was headless running Linux. Sun hardware was great!
If you order replacement NVRAM chips online, they're likely new-old-stock - meaning they've been ticking and discharging ever since they were manufactured. At least that was the case with one I ordered a few years ago. Ultimately, I was able to do some battery surgery and recover the chips (including the new one), but it's not exactly simple. Most instructions I've seen say to dremel away at the chip to access the battery terminals, but I used a heat gun instead to soften the shell and epoxy and peel it off. Maybe I should've documented it in video form...
SUN uses Sync on Green video signal. I have a number of those 13W3 to VGA15 adapters they work with some higher end CRT monitors (including non-SUN ones) but I never saw an LCD monitor working with Sync on Green. I guess they exist since SUN toward the end sold some SUN branded LCD monitors but not encountered those either.
i used to work next to the sun office at valencia, when oracle bought them they just put a big sticker on top of their door logo :D
I have a bunch of old Sparc 5 & 10 boxes and a SUN monitor. Had it for many years, in storage. Have no idea if it still works or not.
I bought a new sparc 5 to do work at home wish I loved that system. I don’t know why I ever got rid of it.
Sun, best effer machine! Would be great to get more information about the history.
History of... a particular system or of the company? I think there are a few videos about the rise and fall of Sun, but I don't know of any about specific systems or components.
@@TalesofWeirdStuffLike the Compaq history. They did make the difference and really made something epic. But just disappeared
@@TalesofWeirdStuff Thanks! let me check!.
@@TalesofWeirdStuff th-cam.com/video/GjR7sRASjdo/w-d-xo.html // Oral History of Andy Bechtolsheim
Cool video! I have an Ultra 10 ‘Elite 3D’ version. Does anyone know what that is? Can’t seem to find any info on it
Will dig out the specs but the graphics card looks similar to yours and has heat sinks on the chips.
I suspect that just has either an Elite3D m3 or Elite3D m6 card instead of the Creator card. I have acquired some of these cards, and I'm trying to get a video about them out later this year. Other things keep cropping up though.
i love these sun systems so much. i definitely gotta find an ultra 60 some time :p
Maybe I'm too early in the video, but if you don't get video output after a few minutes your best bet is the serial console. Since the nvram is flat, they'll come up in full diag-mode and will let you know absolutely everything going on during startup.
Also, the '60 is a lightweight compared to the tank that is the ultra 80. Those mf's are nearly 30kg😰 The server stuff gets even crazier from there
edit: that dvd-rom is a sun part. It's just from a later system once they changed the colour scheme a bit
Nice
that would have been a ton of l2 at the time
tho i wonder how efficiently it was managed on the two cpu system
We threw many of these machines in the trash last year
Two of the RAM modules are offset from the others at the top in an Ultra 60.
For that Ultra 10, you did not press that front button (at least not on camera); maybe that was the power on? Note that the LED above it was off too.
I remember having one of the Ultra 60 machines at work, it was always on and connected to a network with many network computers. I do not know the configuration because the IT guru was managing those remotely from another location and the IT departament at the factory only dealt with Windows machines.
More Sun please
Hollly crap!! BAck in those times probably 10000% of then Linux users were deliriously contemplating about getting those as a personal domestic computer! Their specs sounded like melodies and voices from the future
I miss the old Sun gear with Slow Solaris installed. Loved the graphics, hated the speed. Their saving grace is when you slap a fresh copy of Linux on them, they are tolerably usable again
I think Creator3D and Elite3D can run glQuake. Not positive, heard that second hand.
It should run, but I would fully expect it to be a slideshow. Those cards don't have any texture mapping hardware, so all the rendering will be done by the CPU. I *will* give this a try!
@@TalesofWeirdStuff You may be right, again I heard it second hand. Expert3D could definitely do it from its specs. Elite3D is a bit low on texture fill rate I guess, and I'm not sure about Creator3D - it uses the UPA bus and main system memory for texture mapping. Not sure about the differences between Creator models that you mentioned.
very nice. i have a Sun pc i need to work on it got bad caps
Make fully working one arround 2*UltraSparc3 at 450mhz + 2 graphics card ( one 3D one basic for dual head) + gigabit *4 net card and keep lower specs one for parts (MB, power, CPU s) also move SCSI HDD into working one - Solaris on one possible preinstalled ?!? - maybe a Linux on second
For next time pop in that processor in bit better !