Defeating the smaller group of monsters that are attacking from a different direction first actually is analogous to tactics in a real-life firefight. When you’re getting flanked by a maneuvering squad, it’s critical to deal with them as quickly as possible so you’re no longer getting shot at from multiple directions.
"If at any point, a player asks 'what the f am I supposed to do here' that's a combat puzzle" Ah, so getting lost in a maze for 5 minutes not knowing what any buttons do what is a combat puzzle. Good to know (I jest, I jest, I am a Jester)
Hi Jester, I am an unfunny person. The difference is in the situation the question is asked. Are you asking like it's a Sunday and you're trying to figure out how a brand new toaster works, or are you asking as if you've lost control of your car and are about to veer off a cliff?
Great video! Interesting to see an actual person talking in a Doom video, given how many Doom TH-camrs represent themselves using their avatars. Looking forward to the next one!
I can't overstate how impressed I am by this tutorial. Legit, if I wanted to teach someone how to Doom, and I had ONE tutorial to show them, this would be it.
TH-cam is basically telling me I’m a sh** player at DooM by recommending this to me. This was an awesome video. Finally some good content thank you sir!
So the rules for combat puzzles are (in no particular order): 1. Decrease the number of hostilities from blind spots. The smaller the amount of attacks that are outside your field of view, the better. 2. Reduce the types of different attacks (I.E. Hitscan, seekers, etc.) to one. They’ll take up less room in your mind. 3. Regain as much space as possible for maneuvering. Don’t get trapped! It’s oversimplifying obviously, but that’s what I mainly got from this video
Doomer man understands system simplification better than many coders. Have sensible default behavior, but also analyze whole system and look where meaningful reductions in cognitive load can be achieved. Good video.
The first prioritization strategy reminds me of Cost of Delay Divided by Duration. This is a strategy used in product development for deciding what to work on next. The "cost of delay" in this instance would be how much damage an enemy can cause per unit of time and the duration would be how long it takes to kill the enemy. So enemies that don't cause much damage can still have high priority if they're weak enough.
Outstanding video man! The fact that analysis at this depth on this game can exist almost 30 years after its release is not only a testament to the game's staying power but also your ability as a player, writer, and content creator. Keep it up!
Fun and funny, and THANK YOU for the MAP NAMES in the upper right corner! I know it's a lot of work, but it's a great way to expose people to new levels and match it to a name. Much appreciated!
Damn got the trick question wrong! Funny video, not the kind that makes me go LOL but the kind that makes me smile occasionally and appreciate the editing. Also surreal seeing this type of video in the classic doom space...you did a great job at melding this genre of youtube video with classic doom. Not sure how well this topic can be taught since context informs like 99.999% of combat, and experience is obviously the best way to get better, but I appreciate the effort and fun look at some fundamentals that I take for granted and only register both unconsciously and automatically in my mind when playing.
Also while I think it's impossible to create any universal rules about doom combat, and just loose generalizations is even difficult to create, your point about simplification is definitely one of those generalizations, simplifying angles of attack, types of attacks, simplifying situations to make them more manageable, is a good general rule of thumb (exceptions still remain though, sometimes you may want to release more crap into a fight to cause an infight which may temporarily cause more chaos than there was originally, for example)
Haha yeah you're definitely not the "target audience" since you're kind of absurd at this game. :P But I'm glad you could get some enjoyment out of it! Context absolutely is 99% or more of combat. It was difficult to talk about this while trying not to get into *space* or *infighting* and other things, since they all deserve their own video. But hopefully it's a nice toe-dip into breaking down combat. We have to start somewhere! Thanks, bud.
> Funny video, not the kind that makes me go LOL but the kind that makes me smile occasionally So, this is an incidental comedy. Now let's see if SoBad can do comedy puzzles...
An IWAD map I think provides a good example of proper enemy prioritization is the opening of Perfect Hatred, particularly on fast monsters. You're being shot at by a bunch of Imps, and have a half dozen Cacos storming towards you, as well as one hidden near you blocking the radsuit, while you just have a Shotgun. Waking up and killing the Caco blocking the radsuit asap is imperative, but you gotta focus killing the Imps before targeting the other Cacos despite them being the more pressing threat, since you'll kill the Imps a lot faster and reduce the amount of fireballs you have to dodge. When I did my fast monsters Pistol start playthrough, I was struggling a lot here because I was mostly ignoring the Imps while focusing on the Cacos, but it became a lot more manageable when I prioritized taking out the Imps instead.
Welcome back mate, you were missed. As an aside, I try to include as many monsters as possible in my large fights, since it does lead to interesting fights and lots of infighting. Sometimes you have to prioritise running around like a clueless moron in order to survive. And I'm reeeeally good at that
yea but just there mere idea that "noob traps" exist at all, as per this video's demonstration, i would be terrified of running cluelessly right into one and trapping myself.
@@dfghj241 that's part of the fun. Frustrating at times, but I can appreciate that the map author has planned for my 'Oh fuck, what do I do now?' style of gameplay.
I see now that I wasn't supposed to suggest infighting as the real solution, because in basically every example given in the first 7 minutes infighting is an answer that works.
Yeah I wanted to dedicate a whole video to infighting (and start as simple as possible) so I tried to avoid it as much as possible here. It's really hard to talk about any concept/tool in isolation since every fight is kind of a mix of everything. :/ Though I do sincerely doubt infighting is helpful in the trick question example. You're tight on time and that knight can't do much for you. Also if he's not infighting and he does toss something your way, you have no armor so you might take 64 damage. You don't have the budget for that.
You make a good point that a part of enemy priority is what weapons you have. For example, in a map I'm working on, an early fight pits you against teleporting-in waves of zombiemen, shotgunners, and imps that caps off at the end with a hell knight. . . . But all you have at that point is the regular shotgun. So what sounds on its face like a really easy encounter becomes more interesting because the arsenal is so limited.
Exactly. Pain Elementals become way more dangerous if all you have is rockets (and almost totally harmless if you have the bfg). Great mappers know this well and are super careful about what weapons they give you. It'll be fun to talk about all that stuff soon!
Bro that intro is off the charts!! Also, I probably wouldn't put a spider mastermind in the highest tier, as you pointed out (I know some people are gonna take that list too seriously). Most (good) mastermind fights are designed around getting out of their LOS and e.g. crushing them later, or around making them infight. You'll rarely have to face a mastermind upfront, and even then you'll rarely be killing her first, without using her for infighting.
You're absolutely right. I actually tortured myself about where to put her before just biting the bullet and putting her up top given the potential danger. :P
i guess the way of thinking about it is like, theres the monster priority of how dangerous they are, the spatial priority depending on where they are, and then the infight potential depending on the enemy formation.
You goofy lad you, I adore your script and presentation. I learned something and I had a great time throughout. The generously sprinkled impromptu additions and jokes are just the best.
Hell yeah, I've been looking forward to the next How To Doom, and it didn't disappoint. This is a neat little bit of tech for designing combat setpieces with intention behind them that reaches a little further than what a fairly green mapper (such as myself) would think to include. Immediately through this lens, I look at my favorite wad (Going Down) and see that one of the keystones of its combat is letting you build a threat model in your head and then upending the table with a new one, repeatedly. Blind playthroughs of MAP14: Secrets and Lies showcase that beautifully as a cascading series of oh-shits and adjustments where you have to *very quickly* recalibrate your target priorities and spatial threat models as things go wrong, and that's the secret sauce to its feeling of "chaotic evil", imo.
Cyriak is especially good at giving monsters multiple ways to traverse areas or setting multiple triggers for the same trap, so his maps are harder to predict. It makes things so much more frantic and fun. Huge talent.
This video shows why Doom is so fun, all these decades later. Because it's not just a mindless gorefest. It's a challenge that stresses your reflexes and precise manual skills but also your strategic and tactical thinking. And it's a whole lotta fun at the same time. Excellent game design.
This is brilliant! I was instinctively doing the first thing you mentioned in prioritization, but by the time you got to the hell knight versus 30 revs, you got to an area I really need to improve on. Thanks a ton for these tips. Also, HUGE thanks for showing the map names in the corner. Liked, subscribed, commenting for the algorithm. I can't wait to see more from you. I shared this to the r/Doom subreddit, crediting you and hoping to get more eyes on your channel.
This reminds me about my rule when dealing most bosses in any video game where the bosses as minions which is "if I can kill all the extra damage first"
You did a great job of explaining how experienced players play the game, and things that are given for them or might not think about since they are on autopilot kicking butt. Great video, looking forward to the next one.
Great video! Another nuance to fighting Revs is that you can pacify them from attacking you with their missiles by kiting them from a short distance. So, you can kite a bunch of Revenants with little chance of them actually hurting you, while at the same time you can concentrate on killing enemies that CAN attack you like Hell Knights.
Had an idea for another how to doom, if you decide to do another. A video on how to maneuver through dense slaughter map fights would be useful. So basically how to get from enemies pouring in from all sides to circle strafing to win. You could discuss how to identify a good gap vs a bad gap, where to use the plasma to cut through vs rocket launcher vs BFG, using pain states to delay specific monsters and create a gap, and how to clump up enemies (I think this has to do with the fact that if they're further away, they move more and attack less, so as you circle around, the nearer monsters move less than those further away who move towards you, which on average keeps everything moving towards the center as you circle strafe).
woah this was a great video. super enjoyed the breakdown of the 'anatomy' of fights and situations. Honestly the on-the-fly puzzle solving mindset can be brought over into most competitive FPS shooters as well. Positioning, Target Choice, Rotating. Thanks for uploading. Earned a sub from me, homie.
00:00 Intro 00:39 *Incidental Combat vs. Combat Puzzles* 01:29 *The Absolute Basics (in Incidental Combat)* 02:23 Examples 03:30 Tier List 04:29 *Context* 05:39 *A Trick Question (Don't fall for it!)* 06:26 *Simplification* 08:29 *Meaningful Change* 10:35 Outro 10:51 And on the topic of Sunlust Map15...
Wonderful job! Initially I thought the editing was too frenetic, but you established a nice style across the video once I was acclimated to it. It still might have been a bit much--when you pop in upside-down at the beginning I said aloud, "What the fuck is he doing?"--but the whole thing is informative and entertaining and establishes you as the only Doom player on earth willing to show his face.
This is an absolutely incredible video holy shit, it's easy to follow and makes total sense. On top of that it's hilarious and engaging. That'll sure get me through Sunlust now!
I like your analysis style! Great video And it’s true. When I interviewed Sandy we talked about combat puzzles. They were totally made for OG DOOM, not just Eternal Chaingunners are a good example of a glass cannon I think too. High priority. Context is key, I think cyberdemons can get pretty nasty especially if a player is more novice, and how it’s all placed. Mastermind has a chaingun shotgun! Which is crazy. It’s all situational for sure
i love this video! i'm so impressed with the production values, the face reveal, and how funny it is! this is some doom content that is needed and it delivers!
Thanks, bud! I forget if I mentioned this before, but your Rocket Jumping guide impressed the hell out of me. Made me want to make better stuff. You did a phenomenal job. Actually, here's a link to that for anyone leafing through the comments who might be interested: th-cam.com/video/QfYoztSMdRE/w-d-xo.html
1- Finally! I was waiting for another how to Doom since that great video on Revenants. 2- It could be interesting a wad with 32 short fighting puzzles like those proposed by you. Or a level being a set of different but similar puzzles, like the 3 or 4 that you presented. 1 wad with 32 maps, each of one with 3 or 4 rooms of the "same" puzzle. Just to train Doomers, like the map made to practice killing Cyberdemons with 2 BFG shots each.
You did pretty great in front of the camera, mate! You kept the informative stuff while still being funny and now also visually more interesting, so great job!
I definitely have to practice some more! Lost tons of takes to looking away from the camera before I finished my whole sentence. But anything and everything with time, right?
What a great video! I love the style and presentation to this, absolutely fantastic to engage this audience in a new and memorable way :) these tips will hopefully make me tackle UV a bit more comfortably now!
excellent advice. ur previous video on how to deal with revs genuinely made me better at playing doom and i've honestly been kind of disappointed u hadn't made another for some time because i was craving more instruction like that. i've been playing for a very long time but haven't until recently really been concerned with being good at the game, particularly, and the rev video came along at the perfect time to help me toward that goal this video seems to cover something a bit more fundamental than the rev video, and i think that's a great place to start for a series like this. i think if u play doom long enough this kind of thing becomes second nature, but having it spoken abt explicitly i'm sure will help a lot of ppl not get locked into having to dodge multiple projectile types and avoid chip damage when it isn't necessary, which ofc, is absolutely necessary to playing anything challenging i really really enjoyed the movement guide on revenants and've been wishing there was someone out there that spoke abt movement in doom, as i feel that's kind of the difference between someone who can play the iwads well and someone who can tackle any challenging map relatively blind w/o too much frustration. i hope u decide to do more guides like that when u feel its appropriate. thank u for doing the community this service!
Yeah, Interesting thought! Quickly assessing situations, especially bad ones, are a mandatory skill also present in the OG DOOM and DOOM II. It's just that most of us dry-played it so many times that the encounters have their own "chroegraphy" to execute. It's a skill that really can help. For example, if people try to mess you around in the streets, quickly assessing to most threatful dude or ways to escape or have a profitable situation is key. Or in case of a car crash happening or about to happen. Long story shot: The quicker you assess a situation, the better you can deal with it. I think that, generally speaking in most arenas, shooting down the small hitscanners can make a huge difference. And, even if Revenants are fast, it actually plays in the player's favour, especially in the fight you did that has an extra Hell Knight. Because they do not shoot a too close range, it leaves a margin, and also their speed makes it easier for the player to put a Revenant (even if they do that themselves) between the shooting ones and them. Even if they do not infight, tanking the homing missiles can really save time. Regarding the Imp and the Hell Baron case... As a general rule of thumbs (and it also kinda work with the Pain Elemental), when you're fighting tough enemies or even in boss fights, it is preferable to clean the trash mobs first and then focus on the boss. Because too often, the boss deals big slaps while the trash mobs slowly nibble your health. Getting rid of those small fries can make you last longer in Boss fights, especially ones where the lone boss attacks permit you to heal if needed.
Loving these videos! I subscribed after seeing this video, because it's amazing, but it was seeing how you handled the (surprisingly civil and constructive) feedback on the Italo Doom video that made me glad you're coming up in the Doom community. Keep that level of integrity my man, it will serve you well and is a sadly rare thing on the internet. Definitely gained my respect!
@@sobaddoom you're welcome! And that's weird... I have been getting spam replies to comments sometimes but so far as I know I haven't become a spam bot. I'll have to perform a self diagnostic.
Excellent video, before I watched this I was thinking about how there's almost nothing on monster prio and general combat strategy on youtube. Looking forward to more great content!
That was great, much like explaining a chess concept: "knight is worth 3, queen is worth 9, /but it depends/". Gradually honing in with more accurate heuristics. I'm really looking forward to more of these.
I started my first playthrough of Ultimate Doom 4 days ago, I ended the game 3 hours ago on ultra violence and I wish I had the brains to make those simplifications before, it would've made some headaches WAY easier, specially E4M8, that level is absolute hell!. Hopefully I can apply the stuff you said in this video in Doom 2, I can't wait! Pretty amazed that people STILL make content about this game, that's insane.
Welcome to Doom! There's so much cool custom stuff out there waiting for you after you've smashed Doom 2. I swear, every new year becomes the best year to get into the game. Definitely check out the Cacowards when you're feeling more adventurous!
@@sobaddoom That's cool! Already taking an eye on plutonia aswell, although from what i've seen it's WAY harder than Doom 2, but yeah one step at a time
A great way of putting what we do into words. Also really like the inclusion of the map titles, so people can have a go at the background chaos themselves.
Bro, this video was amazing!!! And I'm not saying that because I happen to own that exact same t-shirt, but because of the editing, humor and face reveal. This is perfecto. The content is also really good for people who are new to Doom-style shooters (aka they are CoD babies who grew up with health regen and cover shooting).
@@sobaddoom Happy to be here along for the journey, man. Your playthroughs may not be uploaded as regularly or be as polished (yet!!) as some other youtubers, but that's OK because you have a genuine personality and pleasant character (i.e. you're actually enjoying the game!) that come across well in your videos. I hope you put out more content when you have the time/energy for something that inspires/tickles you the right way. IMO it may seem like all topics are covered, but there's always an update, a new take, or just a new way of presenting that can make a difference. Either way, I'm subbed and got DAT BELL going so I can catch more content from you. I wish I was a twitch viewer so I could support you there too, but alas, could never get into that site. Cheers, mate!
@@sobaddoom Rewatching your video because for fun and I just now realized that your mic was unplugged for this whole video 😂 Don't compromise on your humor/style, dude. We'll be here for when you have the time and inspiration to create more videos ❤
Great video, can't wait to see future videos on this topic, instantly subscribed. I've been playing Doom forever, as have most Doom players by this point, but even then it's still good to hear these things and have them reinforced even if you already do them subconsciously. When you posted your tier list, I personally had Spider Mastermind much lower and Lost Souls and Pain Elemental on top tier with Chaingunner. I'd also put Archvile a tier lower. However, this was because of me subconsciously already factoring in weapon choice (lost souls and pain elementals become significantly bigger issues when you have rockets) and infighting (archvile is very easy to distract, Spider is a great infighter). Cant wait for more!
Absolutely! The tier list gets jumbled up with each different gun and in every new room. (We could easily design a fight where the baron is the #1 guy to shoot). I'll "debunk" it more and more as I make videos that get into *space* and *weapon efficiency* and *infighting* and other fun stuff. But we have to start somewhere! Totally agree with your instincts regarding where you've placed those monsters. It all depends on the context!
I think back on this video a lot. I think on some level I knew this information, but it's said so well and concisely, it's definitely updated my playbook. So very good.
Well, infighting was outside the scope of the video, but also this fight's likely over before the hell knight would've killed even one revenant. His DPS is inconsequential. And if you kill his target for him, he's right back to shooting at you again. Plus you have to manually set up the infight. Not worth it at all, imo.
Your strategy for Strength and Anger's final fight just blew my mind. That was as far as I could make it in Sunlust without saves and I was only on HMP, excited to work smarter instead of just dying with no clue what to do lmao
Don't feel bad though! That fight punishes you *hard* for being in slightly the wrong place. And there's something to be said about the fact that this strategy only "achieves" letting you focus on fighting 30+ revs at once. So you need to have your rev movement internalized pretty well too. In the video, it's trivial *by comparison* but it's still crazy dangerous. 80-damage rev rockets are no joke!
@@sobaddoom That's one of the tougher parts of improving at Doom in my books, at least for lower skill players. Even if they realize all of that about positioning, monster priority and so on? A lower skill player may not have the skill to capitalize or they get unlucky a few times and abandon the better strategy. This video was great to explain a simple but important aspect of Doom combat.
My tier list is a little different from this video, and it's because of the second part of this video. It's not "who can hit me the hardest", I just shouldn't get hit lol. The question that defines the list is "who makes dodging the most complicated or impossible?" That means a nerf to arachnotrons and imps, and a buff to Revenants, pain elementals and Mancubi, in a vacuum. This allows me to predict more fights, as it's easier to dodge a stream of projectiles, even if they are numerous. This is still just a generic tier list, and staged encounters are still context sensitive, but it gives a better basis for my priority checking. For example, I think I would have solved the trick question simply because of the question I have when making the tier list - "Who makes dodging the most complicated?"
I totally agree. I actually had a whole section of the video focusing on "doing what's best for you". Some people will just never get hit by the mancubus ever because they're gods. So their personal tier list would feature him much lower. But I cut it out because the video was already getting long and the whole thing is so context sensitive anyway. It's just meant to be an absolute first step to considering if there's a better monster to be shooting right now.
Just got to the Revenant Hell Knight "Trick Question" honestly, I'd still fight the Revenants first to dent the horde, as the Hell Knight is much easier to dodge, simply go back and forth or in a circle while fighting the revenants. It also might lead to the Hell Knight hitting a Revenant that way, and then dying to it.
The knight is definitely easier to dodge. But it's not about dodging the revs *or* the knight. It's about dodging the revs or *both.* Whatever movement pattern you autopilot to dodge the knight might make you run into rev rockets and vice versa. I'd be willing to bet you're talented enough to win either way, but you have to admit it's "simpler" if there's no knight around to even have to think about! Ultimately it's totally up to your personal playstyle though. Don't change for my sake if you're already succeeding!
I want to thank you for including the wad names that you're showing footage from. I watch a lot of great videos with bits and pieces of footage like this and sometimes wonder what the wads are because it looks interesting and I'd like to check it out, and you're accreditation of the wads makes it much easier to track them down :)
Thank you so much for this, the new DOOM 1 + 2 remasters came out just a few days ago, and I invited a friend to play it with me, he was struggling hard as he's not used to fast paced boomers shooters like this. I sent him this video and his reaction was literally "OH! I kinda get it now" plus the term "combat puzzle" is genius! is such a good way of describing this game! Thanks so much SoBad!...maybe you ain't so bad after all! *ba dum tiss* xD
Defeating the smaller group of monsters that are attacking from a different direction first actually is analogous to tactics in a real-life firefight. When you’re getting flanked by a maneuvering squad, it’s critical to deal with them as quickly as possible so you’re no longer getting shot at from multiple directions.
"If at any point, a player asks 'what the f am I supposed to do here' that's a combat puzzle" Ah, so getting lost in a maze for 5 minutes not knowing what any buttons do what is a combat puzzle. Good to know (I jest, I jest, I am a Jester)
Hi Jester, I am an unfunny person. The difference is in the situation the question is asked. Are you asking like it's a Sunday and you're trying to figure out how a brand new toaster works, or are you asking as if you've lost control of your car and are about to veer off a cliff?
Great video! Interesting to see an actual person talking in a Doom video, given how many Doom TH-camrs represent themselves using their avatars. Looking forward to the next one!
Turns out this is my avatar, and I'm actually the little pixel guy in real life.
These games are getting really realistic.
No, I'm 99% sure that decino is actually a pumpkin man and Coincident is two-face.
@@sobaddoom I knew it!
@@mjc0961 Civvie goes both ways, at least back when he was using the photos of presumably his face.
I can't overstate how impressed I am by this tutorial. Legit, if I wanted to teach someone how to Doom, and I had ONE tutorial to show them, this would be it.
TH-cam is basically telling me I’m a sh** player at DooM by recommending this to me. This was an awesome video. Finally some good content thank you sir!
So the rules for combat puzzles are (in no particular order):
1. Decrease the number of hostilities from blind spots. The smaller the amount of attacks that are outside your field of view, the better.
2. Reduce the types of different attacks (I.E. Hitscan, seekers, etc.) to one. They’ll take up less room in your mind.
3. Regain as much space as possible for maneuvering. Don’t get trapped!
It’s oversimplifying obviously, but that’s what I mainly got from this video
That's a great start I think! I'm sure we'll update this list though as I have fun delving into more nuanced topics in future vids. Lots to consider!
Interesting and surprisily fresh format. It is like an interview with Doomguy that is just back from a slaughter.
Well done!
Doomer man understands system simplification better than many coders. Have sensible default behavior, but also analyze whole system and look where meaningful reductions in cognitive load can be achieved. Good video.
The first prioritization strategy reminds me of Cost of Delay Divided by Duration. This is a strategy used in product development for deciding what to work on next. The "cost of delay" in this instance would be how much damage an enemy can cause per unit of time and the duration would be how long it takes to kill the enemy. So enemies that don't cause much damage can still have high priority if they're weak enough.
That's an excellent way to break it down. I wish I'd heard of that before I made the video so I could've included it!
Outstanding video man! The fact that analysis at this depth on this game can exist almost 30 years after its release is not only a testament to the game's staying power but also your ability as a player, writer, and content creator. Keep it up!
Where's the future video SoBad? it's been two years!
Awesome video, very informative and a good giggle. Can't wait for more !
Fun and funny, and THANK YOU for the MAP NAMES in the upper right corner! I know it's a lot of work, but it's a great way to expose people to new levels and match it to a name. Much appreciated!
Absolutely! I used to put them in the description, but people would always ask anyway. So right in the video they go!
dude, this is a boomer shooter game design treasure trove.
Damn got the trick question wrong! Funny video, not the kind that makes me go LOL but the kind that makes me smile occasionally and appreciate the editing. Also surreal seeing this type of video in the classic doom space...you did a great job at melding this genre of youtube video with classic doom. Not sure how well this topic can be taught since context informs like 99.999% of combat, and experience is obviously the best way to get better, but I appreciate the effort and fun look at some fundamentals that I take for granted and only register both unconsciously and automatically in my mind when playing.
Also while I think it's impossible to create any universal rules about doom combat, and just loose generalizations is even difficult to create, your point about simplification is definitely one of those generalizations, simplifying angles of attack, types of attacks, simplifying situations to make them more manageable, is a good general rule of thumb (exceptions still remain though, sometimes you may want to release more crap into a fight to cause an infight which may temporarily cause more chaos than there was originally, for example)
Haha yeah you're definitely not the "target audience" since you're kind of absurd at this game. :P But I'm glad you could get some enjoyment out of it!
Context absolutely is 99% or more of combat. It was difficult to talk about this while trying not to get into *space* or *infighting* and other things, since they all deserve their own video. But hopefully it's a nice toe-dip into breaking down combat. We have to start somewhere!
Thanks, bud.
> Funny video, not the kind that makes me go LOL but the kind that makes me smile occasionally
So, this is an incidental comedy. Now let's see if SoBad can do comedy puzzles...
An IWAD map I think provides a good example of proper enemy prioritization is the opening of Perfect Hatred, particularly on fast monsters. You're being shot at by a bunch of Imps, and have a half dozen Cacos storming towards you, as well as one hidden near you blocking the radsuit, while you just have a Shotgun. Waking up and killing the Caco blocking the radsuit asap is imperative, but you gotta focus killing the Imps before targeting the other Cacos despite them being the more pressing threat, since you'll kill the Imps a lot faster and reduce the amount of fireballs you have to dodge. When I did my fast monsters Pistol start playthrough, I was struggling a lot here because I was mostly ignoring the Imps while focusing on the Cacos, but it became a lot more manageable when I prioritized taking out the Imps instead.
Great example!
It's the hitscanners every time.
Someone putting archviles in with many multiple hitscanners is just gleefully sadistic.
Welcome back mate, you were missed.
As an aside, I try to include as many monsters as possible in my large fights, since it does lead to interesting fights and lots of infighting.
Sometimes you have to prioritise running around like a clueless moron in order to survive. And I'm reeeeally good at that
Oh absolutely! For almost all big fights you're better off just running in a circle until you run out of room.
@@WorldofFood I still end up circle strafing to lose sometimes though
yea but just there mere idea that "noob traps" exist at all, as per this video's demonstration, i would be terrified of running cluelessly right into one and trapping myself.
@@dfghj241 that's part of the fun. Frustrating at times, but I can appreciate that the map author has planned for my 'Oh fuck, what do I do now?' style of gameplay.
I see now that I wasn't supposed to suggest infighting as the real solution, because in basically every example given in the first 7 minutes infighting is an answer that works.
Yeah I wanted to dedicate a whole video to infighting (and start as simple as possible) so I tried to avoid it as much as possible here. It's really hard to talk about any concept/tool in isolation since every fight is kind of a mix of everything. :/
Though I do sincerely doubt infighting is helpful in the trick question example. You're tight on time and that knight can't do much for you. Also if he's not infighting and he does toss something your way, you have no armor so you might take 64 damage. You don't have the budget for that.
You make a good point that a part of enemy priority is what weapons you have.
For example, in a map I'm working on, an early fight pits you against teleporting-in waves of zombiemen, shotgunners, and imps that caps off at the end with a hell knight. . . . But all you have at that point is the regular shotgun. So what sounds on its face like a really easy encounter becomes more interesting because the arsenal is so limited.
Exactly. Pain Elementals become way more dangerous if all you have is rockets (and almost totally harmless if you have the bfg). Great mappers know this well and are super careful about what weapons they give you. It'll be fun to talk about all that stuff soon!
absolute banger video dude. love it to bits, really fun format. good energy your way!
Thanks Emma! :)
Wow this is SO good. Also actual person on screen??? Jesus yes please. Doomers have such few physical appearances and this is a breath of fresh air.
Bro that intro is off the charts!!
Also, I probably wouldn't put a spider mastermind in the highest tier, as you pointed out (I know some people are gonna take that list too seriously). Most (good) mastermind fights are designed around getting out of their LOS and e.g. crushing them later, or around making them infight. You'll rarely have to face a mastermind upfront, and even then you'll rarely be killing her first, without using her for infighting.
You're absolutely right. I actually tortured myself about where to put her before just biting the bullet and putting her up top given the potential danger. :P
"Where have you bean?" Why doesnt anybody ask "how have you bean?"
The beans are now sad
i guess the way of thinking about it is like,
theres the monster priority of how dangerous they are, the spatial priority depending on where they are, and then the infight potential depending on the enemy formation.
You goofy lad you, I adore your script and presentation. I learned something and I had a great time throughout. The generously sprinkled impromptu additions and jokes are just the best.
Hell yeah, I've been looking forward to the next How To Doom, and it didn't disappoint. This is a neat little bit of tech for designing combat setpieces with intention behind them that reaches a little further than what a fairly green mapper (such as myself) would think to include.
Immediately through this lens, I look at my favorite wad (Going Down) and see that one of the keystones of its combat is letting you build a threat model in your head and then upending the table with a new one, repeatedly. Blind playthroughs of MAP14: Secrets and Lies showcase that beautifully as a cascading series of oh-shits and adjustments where you have to *very quickly* recalibrate your target priorities and spatial threat models as things go wrong, and that's the secret sauce to its feeling of "chaotic evil", imo.
Cyriak is especially good at giving monsters multiple ways to traverse areas or setting multiple triggers for the same trap, so his maps are harder to predict. It makes things so much more frantic and fun. Huge talent.
Good video. Lots of thought-provoking combat puzzles/examples, and your editing was on point.
This video shows why Doom is so fun, all these decades later. Because it's not just a mindless gorefest. It's a challenge that stresses your reflexes and precise manual skills but also your strategic and tactical thinking. And it's a whole lotta fun at the same time. Excellent game design.
Man this video was amazing! You couldn't have taught this better. I can tell a lot of work went into making this one.
Thanks, bud! I'm really glad you liked it!
This is brilliant!
I was instinctively doing the first thing you mentioned in prioritization, but by the time you got to the hell knight versus 30 revs, you got to an area I really need to improve on. Thanks a ton for these tips. Also, HUGE thanks for showing the map names in the corner.
Liked, subscribed, commenting for the algorithm. I can't wait to see more from you.
I shared this to the r/Doom subreddit, crediting you and hoping to get more eyes on your channel.
Oh wow thank you! Looking forward to making more soon!
The use of the mic as a prop in this one is genius.
This reminds me about my rule when dealing most bosses in any video game where the bosses as minions which is "if I can kill all the extra damage first"
this feels like one of those educational videos you'd watch in school, but for doom. i like it!
Great to have you back! Decino is playing Overboard and it made me miss you.
Video's great! Look forward to more whenever they come.
The plan is to focus on this type of content so I can get it out semi regularly. We'll see how it goes! And thank you!
You did a great job of explaining how experienced players play the game, and things that are given for them or might not think about since they are on autopilot kicking butt. Great video, looking forward to the next one.
This video got recommended to me. And I’m so happy it did! Finding a new Doom content creator is the absolute best
I´ve signed up for this, How to Doom is the series that gives me hope to beat Plutonia 2 on UV
Heck yeah! You can do it.
this video is incredible. massive props for making doom videos nowadays, i love your script writing and style.
hi i came back to once again say fantastic editing and humor. The delivery on the "there's nobody here" is especially perfect
i love this video, it's not only very informative and entertaining but it makes me appreciate classic doom's combat even more
Great video! Another nuance to fighting Revs is that you can pacify them from attacking you with their missiles by kiting them from a short distance. So, you can kite a bunch of Revenants with little chance of them actually hurting you, while at the same time you can concentrate on killing enemies that CAN attack you like Hell Knights.
Had an idea for another how to doom, if you decide to do another. A video on how to maneuver through dense slaughter map fights would be useful. So basically how to get from enemies pouring in from all sides to circle strafing to win. You could discuss how to identify a good gap vs a bad gap, where to use the plasma to cut through vs rocket launcher vs BFG, using pain states to delay specific monsters and create a gap, and how to clump up enemies (I think this has to do with the fact that if they're further away, they move more and attack less, so as you circle around, the nearer monsters move less than those further away who move towards you, which on average keeps everything moving towards the center as you circle strafe).
woah this was a great video. super enjoyed the breakdown of the 'anatomy' of fights and situations. Honestly the on-the-fly puzzle solving mindset can be brought over into most competitive FPS shooters as well. Positioning, Target Choice, Rotating.
Thanks for uploading. Earned a sub from me, homie.
00:00 Intro
00:39 *Incidental Combat vs. Combat Puzzles*
01:29 *The Absolute Basics (in Incidental Combat)*
02:23 Examples
03:30 Tier List
04:29 *Context*
05:39 *A Trick Question (Don't fall for it!)*
06:26 *Simplification*
08:29 *Meaningful Change*
10:35 Outro
10:51 And on the topic of Sunlust Map15...
Wonderful job! Initially I thought the editing was too frenetic, but you established a nice style across the video once I was acclimated to it. It still might have been a bit much--when you pop in upside-down at the beginning I said aloud, "What the fuck is he doing?"--but the whole thing is informative and entertaining and establishes you as the only Doom player on earth willing to show his face.
Haha yeah I was definitely having too much fun in the editor. But I actually do kind of like the energy of it now. Thanks for stickin' it out!
This is an absolutely incredible video holy shit, it's easy to follow and makes total sense. On top of that it's hilarious and engaging. That'll sure get me through Sunlust now!
your power grows
This is like nakeyjakey teaching DOOM combat. I love this. Please continue.
I like your analysis style! Great video
And it’s true. When I interviewed Sandy we talked about combat puzzles. They were totally made for OG DOOM, not just Eternal
Chaingunners are a good example of a glass cannon I think too. High priority.
Context is key, I think cyberdemons can get pretty nasty especially if a player is more novice, and how it’s all placed.
Mastermind has a chaingun shotgun! Which is crazy.
It’s all situational for sure
i love this video! i'm so impressed with the production values, the face reveal, and how funny it is! this is some doom content that is needed and it delivers!
Dude this is amazing content. Love your style and delivery. The info on map 15 made the horrible fight so easy...
This is an awesome and informative video! I can't wait to see more!
Thanks, bud! I forget if I mentioned this before, but your Rocket Jumping guide impressed the hell out of me. Made me want to make better stuff. You did a phenomenal job.
Actually, here's a link to that for anyone leafing through the comments who might be interested: th-cam.com/video/QfYoztSMdRE/w-d-xo.html
1- Finally! I was waiting for another how to Doom since that great video on Revenants.
2- It could be interesting a wad with 32 short fighting puzzles like those proposed by you. Or a level being a set of different but similar puzzles, like the 3 or 4 that you presented. 1 wad with 32 maps, each of one with 3 or 4 rooms of the "same" puzzle. Just to train Doomers, like the map made to practice killing Cyberdemons with 2 BFG shots each.
Fun idea! There's some stuff like that in Pocket Slaughter, which I really liked too.
“Kill every bastard dressed in red” is my mantra when prioritizing targets. Eliminate all hitscanners, starting with chain gunners first.
You did pretty great in front of the camera, mate! You kept the informative stuff while still being funny and now also visually more interesting, so great job!
I definitely have to practice some more! Lost tons of takes to looking away from the camera before I finished my whole sentence. But anything and everything with time, right?
@@sobaddoom Indeed. It'll become second nature to you in no time, don't sweat it!
Just discovered your channel and I'm howling with laughter! I'm absolutely loving this, and I'm eager to see what the next episode will be!
“But it’s not gonna get you through sunlust”. Iconic lol
Great vid. I love when I find new depth in something that seems simple on its surface. I'd love to see similar info for duke nukem/heretic/blood etc.
Extremely high quality Doom content, subbed
What a great video! I love the style and presentation to this, absolutely fantastic to engage this audience in a new and memorable way :) these tips will hopefully make me tackle UV a bit more comfortably now!
excellent advice. ur previous video on how to deal with revs genuinely made me better at playing doom and i've honestly been kind of disappointed u hadn't made another for some time because i was craving more instruction like that. i've been playing for a very long time but haven't until recently really been concerned with being good at the game, particularly, and the rev video came along at the perfect time to help me toward that goal
this video seems to cover something a bit more fundamental than the rev video, and i think that's a great place to start for a series like this. i think if u play doom long enough this kind of thing becomes second nature, but having it spoken abt explicitly i'm sure will help a lot of ppl not get locked into having to dodge multiple projectile types and avoid chip damage when it isn't necessary, which ofc, is absolutely necessary to playing anything challenging
i really really enjoyed the movement guide on revenants and've been wishing there was someone out there that spoke abt movement in doom, as i feel that's kind of the difference between someone who can play the iwads well and someone who can tackle any challenging map relatively blind w/o too much frustration. i hope u decide to do more guides like that when u feel its appropriate. thank u for doing the community this service!
Very kind of you to say! There will definitely be many more entries in the How to Doom series. :)
Yeah, Interesting thought!
Quickly assessing situations, especially bad ones, are a mandatory skill also present in the OG DOOM and DOOM II. It's just that most of us dry-played it so many times that the encounters have their own "chroegraphy" to execute. It's a skill that really can help. For example, if people try to mess you around in the streets, quickly assessing to most threatful dude or ways to escape or have a profitable situation is key. Or in case of a car crash happening or about to happen.
Long story shot: The quicker you assess a situation, the better you can deal with it.
I think that, generally speaking in most arenas, shooting down the small hitscanners can make a huge difference. And, even if Revenants are fast, it actually plays in the player's favour, especially in the fight you did that has an extra Hell Knight. Because they do not shoot a too close range, it leaves a margin, and also their speed makes it easier for the player to put a Revenant (even if they do that themselves) between the shooting ones and them. Even if they do not infight, tanking the homing missiles can really save time.
Regarding the Imp and the Hell Baron case... As a general rule of thumbs (and it also kinda work with the Pain Elemental), when you're fighting tough enemies or even in boss fights, it is preferable to clean the trash mobs first and then focus on the boss. Because too often, the boss deals big slaps while the trash mobs slowly nibble your health. Getting rid of those small fries can make you last longer in Boss fights, especially ones where the lone boss attacks permit you to heal if needed.
I have been waiting for this and it totally exceeded my expectations! 😂Brilliant, entertaining, informative. Love it!
Loving these videos! I subscribed after seeing this video, because it's amazing, but it was seeing how you handled the (surprisingly civil and constructive) feedback on the Italo Doom video that made me glad you're coming up in the Doom community. Keep that level of integrity my man, it will serve you well and is a sadly rare thing on the internet. Definitely gained my respect!
I have no idea why TH-cam thought this comment was spam. Sorry about that!
And thank you! That's kind of you to say.
@@sobaddoom you're welcome!
And that's weird... I have been getting spam replies to comments sometimes but so far as I know I haven't become a spam bot. I'll have to perform a self diagnostic.
Excellent video, before I watched this I was thinking about how there's almost nothing on monster prio and general combat strategy on youtube. Looking forward to more great content!
Never thought of fights in this way. I guess I could start thinking about it in my future maps. Great, high-production video as well!
That was great, much like explaining a chess concept: "knight is worth 3, queen is worth 9, /but it depends/". Gradually honing in with more accurate heuristics. I'm really looking forward to more of these.
Loved the new style of your video, keep this new format for the future
I started my first playthrough of Ultimate Doom 4 days ago, I ended the game 3 hours ago on ultra violence and I wish I had the brains to make those simplifications before, it would've made some headaches WAY easier, specially E4M8, that level is absolute hell!. Hopefully I can apply the stuff you said in this video in Doom 2, I can't wait! Pretty amazed that people STILL make content about this game, that's insane.
Welcome to Doom! There's so much cool custom stuff out there waiting for you after you've smashed Doom 2. I swear, every new year becomes the best year to get into the game. Definitely check out the Cacowards when you're feeling more adventurous!
@@sobaddoom That's cool! Already taking an eye on plutonia aswell, although from what i've seen it's WAY harder than Doom 2, but yeah one step at a time
Loved the old revenant video, and this is great! Looking forward to seeing more
Great video and you're fun to look at and your funny shenanigans. In the most complimentary way possible.
Dang, that was insightful! Hope this reaches more people!
I enjoyed this greatly, I'm happy to see you return
A great way of putting what we do into words.
Also really like the inclusion of the map titles, so people can have a go at the background chaos themselves.
Bro, this video was amazing!!! And I'm not saying that because I happen to own that exact same t-shirt, but because of the editing, humor and face reveal. This is perfecto. The content is also really good for people who are new to Doom-style shooters (aka they are CoD babies who grew up with health regen and cover shooting).
Oh thank you! I appreciate that. Hoping to make lots more. This game goes deep, and there's plenty to talk about!
@@sobaddoom Happy to be here along for the journey, man. Your playthroughs may not be uploaded as regularly or be as polished (yet!!) as some other youtubers, but that's OK because you have a genuine personality and pleasant character (i.e. you're actually enjoying the game!) that come across well in your videos. I hope you put out more content when you have the time/energy for something that inspires/tickles you the right way. IMO it may seem like all topics are covered, but there's always an update, a new take, or just a new way of presenting that can make a difference.
Either way, I'm subbed and got DAT BELL going so I can catch more content from you. I wish I was a twitch viewer so I could support you there too, but alas, could never get into that site. Cheers, mate!
@@sobaddoom Rewatching your video because for fun and I just now realized that your mic was unplugged for this whole video 😂
Don't compromise on your humor/style, dude. We'll be here for when you have the time and inspiration to create more videos ❤
Yay, a new 'How to Doom' video! I love your insight, will be waiting for more!
Great video, can't wait to see future videos on this topic, instantly subscribed. I've been playing Doom forever, as have most Doom players by this point, but even then it's still good to hear these things and have them reinforced even if you already do them subconsciously. When you posted your tier list, I personally had Spider Mastermind much lower and Lost Souls and Pain Elemental on top tier with Chaingunner. I'd also put Archvile a tier lower. However, this was because of me subconsciously already factoring in weapon choice (lost souls and pain elementals become significantly bigger issues when you have rockets) and infighting (archvile is very easy to distract, Spider is a great infighter). Cant wait for more!
Absolutely! The tier list gets jumbled up with each different gun and in every new room. (We could easily design a fight where the baron is the #1 guy to shoot). I'll "debunk" it more and more as I make videos that get into *space* and *weapon efficiency* and *infighting* and other fun stuff. But we have to start somewhere!
Totally agree with your instincts regarding where you've placed those monsters. It all depends on the context!
You told me to shut up at exactly the right time every time. However...
Amazing video! This channel deserves more subscribers.
My boy making that good!
Nice video, and thank you for the map 15 breakdown.
this is the doom content we've needed for years. top tier video
Great video! Hopefully perfection won't be the enemy of good in allowing you to put out more videos soon. :)
Looks like that room with 5 revs and a cyber would be pretty easy to clear no damage. I bet it would take under an hour.
Why do I tell you anything.
@@sobaddoom I say the same thing to my uncle all the time.
I think back on this video a lot. I think on some level I knew this information, but it's said so well and concisely, it's definitely updated my playbook. So very good.
I waited, and I’m glad I did. Really useful information for getting good at doom. Thanks for this.
7:11 I would rather have the Hell Knight sniper helping kill revenants.
Well, infighting was outside the scope of the video, but also this fight's likely over before the hell knight would've killed even one revenant. His DPS is inconsequential. And if you kill his target for him, he's right back to shooting at you again. Plus you have to manually set up the infight. Not worth it at all, imo.
Your strategy for Strength and Anger's final fight just blew my mind. That was as far as I could make it in Sunlust without saves and I was only on HMP, excited to work smarter instead of just dying with no clue what to do lmao
Don't feel bad though! That fight punishes you *hard* for being in slightly the wrong place. And there's something to be said about the fact that this strategy only "achieves" letting you focus on fighting 30+ revs at once. So you need to have your rev movement internalized pretty well too.
In the video, it's trivial *by comparison* but it's still crazy dangerous. 80-damage rev rockets are no joke!
@@sobaddoom That's one of the tougher parts of improving at Doom in my books, at least for lower skill players. Even if they realize all of that about positioning, monster priority and so on? A lower skill player may not have the skill to capitalize or they get unlucky a few times and abandon the better strategy.
This video was great to explain a simple but important aspect of Doom combat.
Love this format! Looking forward to more. Maybe one on weapons best matched to which demon?
Definitely!
found this video after listening to your interview with nirvana. this video is hilarious and informative!
wow doom related videos is so rare in these times. hoping you will make more in the future.
I love this idea for a video series you have.
Good stuff man, good accessible advice, good format and cool maps
My tier list is a little different from this video, and it's because of the second part of this video. It's not "who can hit me the hardest", I just shouldn't get hit lol. The question that defines the list is "who makes dodging the most complicated or impossible?" That means a nerf to arachnotrons and imps, and a buff to Revenants, pain elementals and Mancubi, in a vacuum. This allows me to predict more fights, as it's easier to dodge a stream of projectiles, even if they are numerous.
This is still just a generic tier list, and staged encounters are still context sensitive, but it gives a better basis for my priority checking. For example, I think I would have solved the trick question simply because of the question I have when making the tier list - "Who makes dodging the most complicated?"
I totally agree. I actually had a whole section of the video focusing on "doing what's best for you". Some people will just never get hit by the mancubus ever because they're gods. So their personal tier list would feature him much lower. But I cut it out because the video was already getting long and the whole thing is so context sensitive anyway. It's just meant to be an absolute first step to considering if there's a better monster to be shooting right now.
Thats a sub. Doom deserves such a fun casual approach to the more complex deeper insides. decino's cousin channel quality content over here.
Just got to the Revenant Hell Knight "Trick Question" honestly, I'd still fight the Revenants first to dent the horde, as the Hell Knight is much easier to dodge, simply go back and forth or in a circle while fighting the revenants. It also might lead to the Hell Knight hitting a Revenant that way, and then dying to it.
The knight is definitely easier to dodge. But it's not about dodging the revs *or* the knight. It's about dodging the revs or *both.* Whatever movement pattern you autopilot to dodge the knight might make you run into rev rockets and vice versa. I'd be willing to bet you're talented enough to win either way, but you have to admit it's "simpler" if there's no knight around to even have to think about!
Ultimately it's totally up to your personal playstyle though. Don't change for my sake if you're already succeeding!
I'm going to fall for the trick question _every_ time. Great video!
No don't do it!
I'm having a lot of trouble adapting to the larger scale battles and traps in Doom 2 compared to Doom 1. I hope this helps me. Thanks for the video.
I want to thank you for including the wad names that you're showing footage from. I watch a lot of great videos with bits and pieces of footage like this and sometimes wonder what the wads are because it looks interesting and I'd like to check it out, and you're accreditation of the wads makes it much easier to track them down :)
So basically "Kill smarter, Not harder"
Good video by the way can't wait for more
Thank you so much for this, the new DOOM 1 + 2 remasters came out just a few days ago, and I invited a friend to play it with me, he was struggling hard as he's not used to fast paced boomers shooters like this.
I sent him this video and his reaction was literally "OH! I kinda get it now" plus the term "combat puzzle" is genius! is such a good way of describing this game!
Thanks so much SoBad!...maybe you ain't so bad after all! *ba dum tiss* xD