I knew nothing about Jet Engines before I started watching your videos. Because of you, I now have an idea how they generate thrust and work. Thanks for the videos. I've really enjoyed them.
Thanks Jay for doing these videos. I also want to thank Graham for following and commenting on this channel. Reading his comments make me feel as if I am a guest visitor at the R & D department of a gas turbine manufacturer.
Greetings from the south coast of England, late on Christmas Eve, where the forecast is for the warmest Christmas Day on record, with a predicted high of 14 or 15degC. On the subject of taking what I know as a lump hammer to those turbine blades, the first blade you picked up (but did not assault) was definitely an Olympus 'C' HP turbine blade. As I believe I've mentioned previously, back in 1971, I was working on the drawing board next to my senior colleague, Alan C***, a highly experienced turbine blade designer. He was designing that blade, while I, an inexperienced young designer, was designing the LP turbine blade. If you had taken the hammer to that blade, I think that I might have regarded it as sacrilege.
Your discussion about correctly set VSVs is exactly what our public power consortium went through to improve the power output of our peaking (grid connected) electrical power turbine units from approx 20 MW to 24 MW for equivalent fuel consumption. In terms of payback, the difference is huge.
On the subject of variable turbine nozzle guide vanes, I was going to mention that I believe some of the big, 'heavyweight' industrial gas turbines have variable stage 1 NGVs: however, I've been beaten to it. Nevertheless, the one application of which I have some limited knowledge, and which has variable power turbine stage 1 NGVs, is the WR21 marine gas turbine engine. as used in the Royal Navy's Type 45 destroyers.
Hello again, AgentJayZ. I'm hoping against hope that my six-year-old granddaughter doesn't wake up ridiculously early and then rouses the whole house, when she discovers that Santa has visited and left presents. Moving on quickly to gas turbine business: you are possibly alluding to me as your 'visitor' and, yes, your comment about the early RB211 having a variable final nozzle for the core does stir a vague memory. However, I am quite certain that the -22B engine did not enter service with such a feature. I will try to check the history if I can, but I do have a vague recollection that a variable nozzle for the core engine was considered during the early stages of the project.
I've now watched, and enjoyed, every video on your playlist. Just want to say how impressed I am with your hard work, attention to detail, and for the enthusiasm you show in the making of the videos. Ron Gabel
Hi Jay and all Just a quick note about variable turbine nozzles on the LP turbine. Yes they are used in some units for control of the output revs with varying loads, things like power generation and compressors for LNG plants. the units i have seen them on are GE frame 5 to frame 7 units and an LM6000. these are big units up around the 80 to 90 MW link to a picture that shows the variable nozzle control ring at back of unit www.geoilandgas.com/sites/geog.dev.local/files/styles/568_x_318_crop/public/ms5002d_np-03066_media-120414.jpg?itok=pu2W7JIc link to a picture that shows the gas generator core www.unionmillwright.com/geframe7.jpg
You should get in contact with the Hydrolic Press Channel, and send them some turbine blades to torture test on the press, with their furnace, and LN2. That would be fun to see.
canada... give this man the highest civilian honor possible. i love AgentJayZ (in a brotherly, jet engine kind of way). if you're ever in New Jersey, i'll take you out for some pizza and beer.
Hey! The beard's gone! That must mean you're back in your house. That's great! I'm so happy for you. Just in time for Christmas. May you and yours have a wonderful joyous Christmas and New Year.
I love your fantastic and wonderful videos. God bless you. Q1: What is the maximum thrust engine you have ever tested ? and Q2: Which is the most Technically challenging one and why?
Hey -- the house must be done !!!! no mouse den on the face anymore... Question for you Agent007JayZ --> on the turbines that you worked on for the jet boat team, as the water intake for the jet drive impeller ventilates, the load on the impeller will drop significantly, this should cause an increase in RPM of the power turbine. (I am guessing, but I would think the power turbine would increase 10 - 50% in rpm. ) When the water intake for the impeller is no longer ventilating and under load, I would guess again that the power turbine would return to nominal RPM. My question is, I would believe that this would happen suddenly as the power turbine goes from full load, to no load, back to full load. This has to place tremendous torque spikes on the output shaft. Do power turbines for jet boats have the standard output shaft, or is the output shaft of the power turbine more substantial to handle the fluctuations in torque? Merry Christmas -- and what in Heaven's name is boxing day? Thank you, I truly look forward to every video that you do.
No worries. The helicopter fuel control has reflexes 100 times faster than even superman. No over speeds, no over torques... It's like a terminator whose only job is to maintain a constant output shaft speed ... no matter what.
do you have a good closeup of the structure in the break zone. I´m wondering if these "one crystal" blades look differnt then a good hardent toolsteel what was cracked in one hit
This deep base humming when the compressor stall, you hear this all the time of a ordinary commercial jet when they start their engines, is this the same happen with these? If so then Im a little surprised that would happen with modern engines with state of the art electronics and stuff.
very interesting about the blade testing. I knew that metals get annealed by heating but i didn't know it makes them that brittle. As for the temperature in Fort st. John area, does the workshop have the heating on all of the time ? I would imagine working on all of those metal parts (inside the workshop) in winter would be a nightmare on a Monday morning if the heating was not on over the weekend
Hi jay could you please explain how fuel is stored on fighter jets in different angles? i mean that, how fuel will be pumped when the gravity is changing every second, when landing and taking off, how the fuel will remain on the bottom of the tank? thanks
What units are used to measure turbine/compressor disc balance and how close to zero do you need to get? Hope this hasn't been covered before (at least not too many times)
Speaking of variable stator vanes, has anyone tried variable rotor blades? I know it's quite an engineering challenge but has it been tried or actually put into production? Thanks.
It would be too complex, too heavy and not worth the effort, in terms of performance and efficiency. However, just hang on for a few years and you will probably see variable pitch fan blades in some of the big turbofans. As I've mentioned in a previous video, back in the 1970s R-R Bristol designed, built and tested a demonstrator engine (the M45 SD02) with fully variable pitch fan blades that could go into reverse pitch.
Is there an easily obtainable turboshaft engine you could recommend for a car project? Seems like there aren't many options that would be good for an automotive application, either 100shp APUs which would offer pitiful performance for the time and money invested or 1000shp monsters. Do turboshafts in the 300-400shp range exist?
The 250 C-20 makes about 400 Hp, and could be adapted to run in a vehicle. I have seen a video of a Chevy S-10 with one replacing the original engine, but I can't find it now.
After watching a few engine test run videos I noticed the laptop screens in the control room are always turned off. I'm pretty sure I know why... or are they really not used?
The main notebook computer has SSD storage because the noise is so great that normal HD disks fail due to their heads rattling off the disk. Its output display is actually the 24 inch monitor, making it easier for everyone in the control room to see it. The main computer therefore looks turned off. The computer and the large monitor both have their own independent UPS, as does the PLC board that is never shown, but is the interface between the engine being tested and the computers. The computer that is sometimes in the middle of three is a backup, and its screen is not activated. The computer on the left is our vibration spectrum analyzer, and it is always on. You're pretty sure of what?
AgentJayZ Okay my guess of why they appear off was very wrong. (thought it was sensitive information). Is the backup laptop a backup of data or to be able to control the engine should the first computer fail? Or are all engine controls done not electronicly and actually ran by a cable?
Just curious, but what method of production is used to make turbine blades? Are they cast, milled or is it a centred metallic compound? I feel like milled would be strongest but logistically impossible?
For modern blades it's investment casting followed by a process to make the blade a single crystal. Very different from normal metal machining. www.appropedia.org/Single_Crystal_Turbine_Blades
They're designed to run in a very narrow power bandwidth, they spool up then basically run flat out from there, subscribe to the "Don" and get learning!
Increase the fuel flow and the engine runs faster, but don't increase the fuel flow too quickly, otherwise the engine may surge. I'm not going to explain the phenomenon here, because AgentJayZ has discussed it in the past.
how nasty is the exhaust pumping out the back end of a jet engine. I'd imagine it would be a lot worse than a diesel engine or even petroleum. so why are jet engines, or any aerospace engines not required to have any filtration method, sort of like the catalytic converter?
+Steven Feser The combustion is more complete, and therefore cleaner than any piston engine. So a catalytic converter would have nothing to do. Plus, they gotta fly, so they get cut a lot of slack, compared to dump truck engines.
The major issue with gas turbine engine exhausts over recent years has been NOx (the oxides of Nitrogen). The latest aero engine combustors have been developed to give significantly reduced NOx levels. Industrial engines have gone even further, initially with the introduction of water injection for NOx reduction. However, the latest industrial engines have specifically designed and developed, so-called dry low emission (DLE) combustion systems, which would be far too big and heavy ever to fly (except as air freight).
+Steven feser Gas turbines, like Diesel engine operate at extremely lean air/fuel ratios so compared to the Otto engine they produce virtually zero HC and CO emission which are typically handled by a "Oxidation Catalyst" the main issues are shared by Diesels as well. NOx and particulates.. NOx can be reduced by lowering peak combustion temperatures and improved combustor designs reduce particulates in liquid fuel operation.. gaseous fuel tends to have naturally lower particulate levels.
Plese, make it stop !!! LMAO....No, seriously, it ok to destroy a sick one but not the vise and else. TIL turbine blades are TUFF AF sharp metal thing. Never stick any fleshy appendages in between them. P.S: -28*C......................LOL.
I knew nothing about Jet Engines before I started watching your videos. Because of you, I now have an idea how they generate thrust and work. Thanks for the videos. I've really enjoyed them.
holy shit I am not affraid to fly anymore, that turbine blade really can take a punch
Wow, that blade demonstration was awesome. Incredibly tough. Thanks for that.
OK, that's a pretty sweet demo of how strong those blades are... thanks Jay!
Thanks Jay for doing these videos. I also want to thank Graham for following and commenting on this channel. Reading his comments make me feel as if I am a guest visitor at the R & D department of a gas turbine manufacturer.
That is amazing material! Thanks for demonstrating it for us!! Cheers.
I agree, -28 IS COLD...
Thanks for the destruction show, it really pictures how tough these things are, if anybody had doubts
Smashing that blade was excellent!!!
Greetings from the south coast of England, late on Christmas Eve, where the forecast is for the warmest Christmas Day on record, with a predicted high of 14 or 15degC.
On the subject of taking what I know as a lump hammer to those turbine blades, the first blade you picked up (but did not assault) was definitely an Olympus 'C' HP turbine blade. As I believe I've mentioned previously, back in 1971, I was working on the drawing board next to my senior colleague, Alan C***, a highly experienced turbine blade designer. He was designing that blade, while I, an inexperienced young designer, was designing the LP turbine blade. If you had taken the hammer to that blade, I think that I might have regarded it as sacrilege.
Like I said, they were all too pretty, as well as being far too strong for me and my hammer.
Your discussion about correctly set VSVs is exactly what our public power consortium went through to improve the power output of our peaking (grid connected) electrical power turbine units from approx 20 MW to 24 MW for equivalent fuel consumption. In terms of payback, the difference is huge.
On the subject of variable turbine nozzle guide vanes, I was going to mention that I believe some of the big, 'heavyweight' industrial gas turbines have variable stage 1 NGVs: however, I've been beaten to it. Nevertheless, the one application of which I have some limited knowledge, and which has variable power turbine stage 1 NGVs, is the WR21 marine gas turbine engine. as used in the Royal Navy's Type 45 destroyers.
Turbine blade hyper violence, absolutely love it, Merry Christmas Sensi
Hello again, AgentJayZ. I'm hoping against hope that my six-year-old granddaughter doesn't wake up ridiculously early and then rouses the whole house, when she discovers that Santa has visited and left presents.
Moving on quickly to gas turbine business: you are possibly alluding to me as your 'visitor' and, yes, your comment about the early RB211 having a variable final nozzle for the core does stir a vague memory. However, I am quite certain that the -22B engine did not enter service with such a feature. I will try to check the history if I can, but I do have a vague recollection that a variable nozzle for the core engine was considered during the early stages of the project.
I've now watched, and enjoyed, every video on your playlist. Just want to say how impressed I am with your hard work, attention to detail, and for the enthusiasm you show in the making of the videos. Ron Gabel
I'm impressed with your patience if you watched all of them.
lol jay glad to see ya had a bit of destruction fun, merry christmas from an east coast canadian :)
I seem to recall the turbine blades in the fuel pump for the Shuttle main engines are the size of a postage stamp and extract 300 HP each. Wild.
Wow! Didn't think the blades were that tough. I knew they were strong but gez!
+AgentJayZ - A beard might keep you warmer ... lol.
Thanks for another vid, and the lesson in blade toughness.
Merry Christmas!
-Cache
Hi Jay and all
Just a quick note about variable turbine nozzles on the LP turbine.
Yes they are used in some units for control of the output revs with varying loads, things like power generation and compressors for LNG plants. the units i have seen them on are GE frame 5 to frame 7 units and an LM6000. these are big units up around the 80 to 90 MW
link to a picture that shows the variable nozzle control ring at back of unit
www.geoilandgas.com/sites/geog.dev.local/files/styles/568_x_318_crop/public/ms5002d_np-03066_media-120414.jpg?itok=pu2W7JIc
link to a picture that shows the gas generator core
www.unionmillwright.com/geframe7.jpg
Good stuff Jay! Happy Christmas!
Rich.
You should get in contact with the Hydrolic Press Channel, and send them some turbine blades to torture test on the press, with their furnace, and LN2. That would be fun to see.
This is the best video on youtube, mostly due to the fact that I have the blades that you used in this video sitting on my desk. Thanks again!
Signed, so we will all know if you put them on Ebay!
Cheers!
Love the sparks at 22:33
Wow very cool video Jay, Awesome blade destruction. Merry Christmas and happy New Year to you and yours or Happy holidays if your against Christmas.
Merry Christmas !
canada... give this man the highest civilian honor possible. i love AgentJayZ (in a brotherly, jet engine kind of way). if you're ever in New Jersey, i'll take you out for some pizza and beer.
Thanks!
Hey! The beard's gone! That must mean you're back in your house. That's great! I'm so happy for you. Just in time for Christmas. May you and yours have a wonderful joyous Christmas and New Year.
I love your fantastic and wonderful videos. God bless you.
Q1: What is the maximum thrust engine you have ever tested ? and
Q2: Which is the most Technically challenging one and why?
I am unaware of any such program, nor would I be at liberty to discuss it, if in fact such a program did exist.
What's harder, cramming all the stuff into a J47 nose cone, or cramming all the stuff into a round Honda headlight housing?
Hey -- the house must be done !!!! no mouse den on the face anymore...
Question for you Agent007JayZ --> on the turbines that you worked on for the jet boat team, as the water intake for the jet drive impeller ventilates, the load on the impeller will drop significantly, this should cause an increase in RPM of the power turbine. (I am guessing, but I would think the power turbine would increase 10 - 50% in rpm. ) When the water intake for the impeller is no longer ventilating and under load, I would guess again that the power turbine would return to nominal RPM.
My question is, I would believe that this would happen suddenly as the power turbine goes from full load, to no load, back to full load. This has to place tremendous torque spikes on the output shaft. Do power turbines for jet boats have the standard output shaft, or is the output shaft of the power turbine more substantial to handle the fluctuations in torque?
Merry Christmas -- and what in Heaven's name is boxing day?
Thank you, I truly look forward to every video that you do.
No worries. The helicopter fuel control has reflexes 100 times faster than even superman. No over speeds, no over torques... It's like a terminator whose only job is to maintain a constant output shaft speed ... no matter what.
do you have a good closeup of the structure in the break zone. I´m wondering if these "one crystal" blades look differnt then a good hardent toolsteel what was cracked in one hit
This deep base humming when the compressor stall, you hear this all the time of a ordinary commercial jet when they start their engines, is this the same happen with these? If so then Im a little surprised that would happen with modern engines with state of the art electronics and stuff.
very interesting about the blade testing. I knew that metals get annealed by heating but i didn't know it makes them that brittle.
As for the temperature in Fort st. John area, does the workshop have the heating on all of the time ?
I would imagine working on all of those metal parts (inside the workshop) in winter would be a nightmare on a Monday morning if the heating was not on over the weekend
If you had a 21" hole, what engine would you fill it with? Lighter the better...
Hi jay could you please explain how fuel is stored on fighter jets in different angles? i mean that, how fuel will be pumped when the gravity is changing every second, when landing and taking off, how the fuel will remain on the bottom of the tank?
thanks
What units are used to measure turbine/compressor disc balance and how close to zero do you need to get?
Hope this hasn't been covered before (at least not too many times)
Speaking of variable stator vanes, has anyone tried variable rotor blades? I know it's quite an engineering challenge but has it been tried or actually put into production? Thanks.
It would be too complex, too heavy and not worth the effort, in terms of performance and efficiency. However, just hang on for a few years and you will probably see variable pitch fan blades in some of the big turbofans. As I've mentioned in a previous video, back in the 1970s R-R Bristol designed, built and tested a demonstrator engine (the M45 SD02) with fully variable pitch fan blades that could go into reverse pitch.
Is there an easily obtainable turboshaft engine you could recommend for a car project? Seems like there aren't many options that would be good for an automotive application, either 100shp APUs which would offer pitiful performance for the time and money invested or 1000shp monsters. Do turboshafts in the 300-400shp range exist?
Seems like a Rolls/Allison 250 variant would be a good pick. Any others in that size range that would be popping up in surplus and recyclers?
The 250 C-20 makes about 400 Hp, and could be adapted to run in a vehicle. I have seen a video of a Chevy S-10 with one replacing the original engine, but I can't find it now.
After watching a few engine test run videos I noticed the laptop screens in the control room are always turned off. I'm pretty sure I know why... or are they really not used?
The main notebook computer has SSD storage because the noise is so great that normal HD disks fail due to their heads rattling off the disk. Its output display is actually the 24 inch monitor, making it easier for everyone in the control room to see it.
The main computer therefore looks turned off. The computer and the large monitor both have their own independent UPS, as does the PLC board that is never shown, but is the interface between the engine being tested and the computers.
The computer that is sometimes in the middle of three is a backup, and its screen is not activated.
The computer on the left is our vibration spectrum analyzer, and it is always on.
You're pretty sure of what?
AgentJayZ Okay my guess of why they appear off was very wrong. (thought it was sensitive information). Is the backup laptop a backup of data or to be able to control the engine should the first computer fail? Or are all engine controls done not electronicly and actually ran by a cable?
Just curious, but what method of production is used to make turbine blades? Are they cast, milled or is it a centred metallic compound? I feel like milled would be strongest but logistically impossible?
For modern blades it's investment casting followed by a process to make the blade a single crystal. Very different from normal metal machining.
www.appropedia.org/Single_Crystal_Turbine_Blades
The single crystal is 'grown' as part of the cooling process, immediately after the molten metal is poured into the mould.
The vast majority of the turbine blades for modern engines are cast.
Question: Where did u get the name AgentJayZ?
Same store you bought GoWinPie !
how does a jet engine acelerate
They're designed to run in a very narrow power bandwidth, they spool up then basically run flat out from there, subscribe to the "Don" and get learning!
Increase the fuel flow and the engine runs faster, but don't increase the fuel flow too quickly, otherwise the engine may surge. I'm not going to explain the phenomenon here, because AgentJayZ has discussed it in the past.
First comment!
Great video!
Be careful, JayZ's funny about early commenters, Merry Christmas
I know I want him to comment so I can ask him a question
Why would you talk like I'm not always right here... watching your every move?
SSSSHhhhh. Now he's watching US. Oh how the tables have turned.
philzambo...
Meh... at least he probably watched most of it. I need to put more Easter eggs at the ends of my videos.
how nasty is the exhaust pumping out the back end of a jet engine. I'd imagine it would be a lot worse than a diesel engine or even petroleum. so why are jet engines, or any aerospace engines not required to have any filtration method, sort of like the catalytic converter?
+Steven Feser
The combustion is more complete, and therefore cleaner than any piston engine.
So a catalytic converter would have nothing to do.
Plus, they gotta fly, so they get cut a lot of slack, compared to dump truck engines.
The major issue with gas turbine engine exhausts over recent years has been NOx (the oxides of Nitrogen). The latest aero engine combustors have been developed to give significantly reduced NOx levels. Industrial engines have gone even further, initially with the introduction of water injection for NOx reduction. However, the latest industrial engines have specifically designed and developed, so-called dry low emission (DLE) combustion systems, which would be far too big and heavy ever to fly (except as air freight).
+Steven feser Gas turbines, like Diesel engine operate at extremely lean air/fuel ratios so compared to the Otto engine they produce virtually zero HC and CO emission which are typically handled by a "Oxidation Catalyst" the main issues are shared by Diesels as well.
NOx and particulates..
NOx can be reduced by lowering peak combustion temperatures and improved combustor designs reduce particulates in liquid fuel operation.. gaseous fuel tends to have naturally lower particulate levels.
Steven Feser The US EPA and other international bodies work with industry to help limit emissions.
thanks guys, it makes a hell of a lot more sense now
Plese, make it stop !!! LMAO....No, seriously, it ok to destroy a sick one but not the vise and else.
TIL turbine blades are TUFF AF sharp metal thing. Never stick any fleshy appendages in between them.
P.S: -28*C......................LOL.
Merry Christmas!