Telegraphing at close range isn't a big issue, because at close range you have less reaction time anyway. In other words, just have a good guard and pick your shots. Just another reason why boxing is real and works. It has a good guard.
Boxers use elastic recoil not telegraphing like you keep telling people in the comments, they don't just pull back when throwing certain hooks just because it's easier than throwing it out from guard and sure you can telegraph at that range because you have very little space to cover but anything further away will get easily countered by anyone who is even half competent.
Great clip. I've been doing martial arts most of my life and I learned more useful stuff in 8 hours of tuition with Mick about how to have a fight than I did in all the other TKD, kickboxing, JJ, krav etc combined. His body mechanics for throwing the high and lowline shots are spot on - constant offensive pressure and GLF. He is also someone who really understands the difference between sparring, competing and violence.
Boxing all my life, and to me the biggest weakness of an untrained fighter is that they telegraph their blows so far in advance. They never have a chance against a trained boxer. Thanks.
@@WesternCombatives of course they do, to a certain degree. You have to rotate your body in order to generate any kind of power. What sets actual trained fighters apart is understanding of distance and timing.
Great topic and well articulated point. Defensively, here’s my two cents. This helped me get hit less: Olympic style headgear (no “face saver”), gumshield and 16 oz gloves. Take turns slipping punches. Continuous head movement increases odds of slipping jabs, moreso with loaded punches. You will get hit but less. Start slow and at 50% power, then pick up speed/power over next few weeks. Switch to 14 oz gloves then 12 as you get better. Works for sport. I don’t do street fights cause I like my clean police record. However like sport, I bet my odds of getting hit less in the street will also improve after training this way for at least 6 weeks 4 days per week. If you stop, you lose it. Have to maintain this type training.
I always had a work mate who usually pokes my stomach and I usually fail to block it because he is too close to me and this video really explains it well out about effective telegraphing attacks. So I started creating distance and he finds it hard to attack me although some times ending up with his successful poke and now I was thinking should I eye jab him so he can stop this stupid behavior but I decided not to. Yas they say the person who controls the distance controls the fight. And not only that as a combat practitioner I am putting that person's mind to his option A of attack I just don't want to let people around know that I am learning how to combat and that's another form of telegraphing.
What a great vid this is, and absolute brilliant and simple demonstration including explanation of what he means, simplicity works, no need to over think stuff.
DJ Jamie Dee the neuroscince behind this has actually been overly simplified to the point where it is not applicable, becase different motions have different reaction times. As well, the simpler way to punch is to go straight out, not bring it back firs and then throw it. 1 step is simpler than 2
Jeff Phillips Self Defence omg You found a typo, how clever of you. Obviously I don't know the word if I used it correctly but typed on my phone wrong. Man, just wear your sensitivity and insecurity on your sleeve why don't you Because there's an e missing in science? Lol are you serious? What a loser
Powerful strikes can be done from a neutral stance , but it requires a lot of practice to get the speed along with the power. It is advanced technique that most schools do not teach. There is a time and a place for those techniques for example if your in a tight area where you can't get in a traditional fighting stance.
First off I agree (as someone trained in Medicine) but please note that it makes a difference is what part of the body telegraphs AND how the brain interprets that information ... the brain is very poor at analyzing the movement of a single hand versus... the brain is far more likely to recognize the shoulder and the chest moving than the hand ...
there seems to be a lot of experts on the matter this guy is one of the best combat instructors that ever lived if I'm gathering right he's saying it doesn't matter if you Telegraph your punch especially if your arms already out and you throw the first punch if you're close enough your opponent won't see it coming it takes more time to bring your elbows back into your body to throw an on telegraphic punch so throw a punch where your hands are already at but I could be wrong I'm no expert
OK, this isn't a video about glassing, but I think this single cowardly attack illustrates just how easy it is to hit someone before they can get a hand up to defend themselves. Mick mentioned in another video that the person who hits you with the glass they're holding while you try to move your hand from your glass into position to hit them has already won the fight and I agree. There's nothing 'telegraphic' about someone holding a glass in a bar but it may as well be a Stanley knife for the damage they can potentially do. We've had some absolutely horrific glassings here in Australia - often woman-on-woman - and in each case you know it had to be in a situation so many of us have found ourselves in : crowded bar, everyone (ok - almost everyone) seemingly enjoying themsvles and bam : instant, life-changing violence. I believe I know the pub where this young woman was glassed - haven't been there for many years but I'm surprised that they haven't abandoned glass in favor of plastic as many other pubs have done: i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2018/10/01/20/4678410-6228557-Miss_Watson_pictured_was_brutally_glassed_in_a_pub_after_a_short-m-51_1538421707309.jpg If the line about 'chicks dig scars' applies to the tough guys out there, I dont believe it applies to women who have to go through life with a facial scar like that. Here's hoping pubs put an end to this madness, even if drinking from plastic cups is no-one's idea of a good time.
Arthur Watts agree mate and this illustrates exactly that, it is very easy to hit some with an empty hand or implement. We have another couple of videos that talk about this just uploaded
Can’t say I completely agree. In a street situation, you probably won’t be facing profesional boxers. But in a ring with a profesional, every advantage helps. The tiniest of telegraphing can give you away.
You don't telegraph with your hands, you telegraph with your eyes and your legs. Eyes telegraph intent and legs telegraph power. You can't hit accurately without scoping out your target. You can't do a powerful hook or roundhouse without a wide stance. You can't do a powerful straight or push kick without a forward/back oriented stance. By noticing stance orientation and when feet are planted you get advanced notice of power strikes and you can tell whether it will be rotational (wide stance) or linear (forward-back stance) and from which side it will come depending on which of the opponent's legs is trailing. These are the strikes that can deal serious damage through your guard, the jabs and kicks thrown from a neutral stance can be easily checked and guarded while you counterattack. They will have less than half the power of a strike from proper stance.
B.R., yes you can actually perform a quite powerful roundhouse with either front or rear leg, push kick with front or rear leg, jab or cross or hook/uppercut with front or rear arm, all from the same neutral stance. You will add a bit of power though by changing to a more wide or forward oriented stance. But with proper control of your balance it is quite surprising what power can be generated from a neutral stance.
I can throw multiple kicks from one stance front leg back leg, and throw many punches from one stance, there is no way you will know exactly what coming depending on my stance you might guess that I am a kicker or likes to punch more but that's it I might throw a hook kick, round kick, spinning kick, front kick and I am still in the same stance and my eyes are always planted on your chest so you won't get anything from my eyes mate I can see your entire body while looking at your chest use your peripheral vision. there is no way you can know what kick I will do from my stance orientation unless I telegraph but that just means I am a bad fighter and told you what I am going to do by flinching or doing a step before I kick etc unless I use that flinch as a fake and follow up with something different that isn't telegraphed which is always a nice move.
B. R. A good striker does not need any of these things to execute any of those strikes. Almost Every basic strike should be done from a stable and consistent base with everything moving in only one direction. On that some note, people do telegraph with stuff like that which is why this guy is incorrect, because if youre a telegrapher the first indication youre giving is not the hand loading up, thats your second or third indiction, which is why it's critical you don't load your shots because it's easier to focus on not telegraphing with your hand than it is to not telegraph with your feet, hips, eyes etc. If i step, turn my hips and load my hand ive eaten up the action v reaction time, whereas if it were just one or two of those it might be ok, without taking into account anticipation. There isn't even an point in "Loading" your shot, so to perform a superfluous action which benefits your opponent is retarded. You should always worry about every detail of every thing. The advocating of cutting corners is just ridiculous.
Ok ok, i have to chip in. Non telegraphing is part of efficient and good technique. Anyone who has fought (and i have fought a lot in competition and in the street), knows. If you telegraph against a good fighter, well you may as well just shit on yourself, because thats the equivilent.... Yes a fight can happen anywhere, and even recently when i beat the fuck out of a criminial who attacked me in a shop, my movement was paramount. i kept on the outside and bobbbed and weaved and used footwork, i didnt just stand there waiting for him to hit me cos he was a straight up animal and i avoided every strike while picking him apart and smashed him into the shelves Actually it didnt go according to plan cos i telegraphed my headbutt a bit and he moved, get it? He moved.. almost cost me my ass. So for the love of god, pipe dowm with your guru like shit, cos theres never a one way fits all...and nothing is fixed... ..if you want to stand and face an animal at that distance then you are a cretin. Rule 1, if they are that close to me, im hitting the fucker as they step into that range...and i find space.
This example may applies short range n if someone still like other guy, if moving then it's not gonna work. On the other hand you cant generate enough power behind.
SickLid then demonstrates why you’ve got to think like that. Because you can’t react in time. You’re arms length away brother. You don’t have space or time for the telegraph to be a relevant factor.
Telegraphic? when fight is on its on. Wide stance tell me he intend to hit hart before it starts, but mostly there is a foreplay and he can take me from every relaxed possition into a headlock to push+hit too, insteat of aiming for a one-hit-wonder suckerpunch where he need stance or distract me with his calmdown up hands. If he come in reach with his hands up simply grap them, stand in base and ask whats up?! ,,If he comes aggressiv shouting with hands moving he invite you for the first Hit, or Takedown when you are nice. Later you can tell him you thought he was Hysteric and it was for his own good, cause now he can still walk.
I'd listen more to a top level boxer than any online instructor on this topic. They know what works against another top level fighter under real conditions. What kind of movement you can and can't get away with. Plus they do for sure know how to get power into a punch as compared to the woowoo-masters and their one inch punches.
Most of the clips was from an active exchange where one or both fighters was pretty wide open and a hook-ish punch landed. That's not really about telegraphing, in my humble opinion. Extend the distance to at least a meter and start from a pretty neutral stance. Then we can study telegraphing and how some people seem to not give away anything and others show a week in advance what they're about to do.
Only works if the guy is not fighting back. Telegraphing will bite you in the ass while closing distance. The load ups you see on tv are disguised in movement.
It's all about distance. At that close range the brain can not process and react. Too long a transmission distance. If they started with the hands contacting, he might be ab;e to react fast enough with one hand to block.
The slap to your chest is actually slowing his response and then the rule atpu placed on what he had yo do to win. just another martial arts teacher trick.
th-cam.com/video/jGYIw_anTBM/w-d-xo.html this punch was thrown and landed from across the ring. I know I know you will argue that the guy was already unstable but are you telling me you’ve never seen that on anyone else? Happens all the time
This is cool to teach people in a self-defense class, but in terms of competitive martial arts, you want your punches to be as difficult to telegraph as possible. Professionals in MMA and Boxing, while they do load up, there is a very small margin of error in terms of landing flush and missing and if you telegraph your shots, your opponent can see the punches more easily and your margin of error becomes smaller.
When in the pocket either during a heated exchange or one sided barrage, everybody telegraphs. It's only an issue when closing distance, looking to get in the pocket. Once in there EVERY boxer telegraphs and loads up. My coach has pulled me up on it before...with good reason, but never when I'm at close range.
I usually don t have much to complain about with your videos but this one I found a bit odd. Telegraphing intent and punches is, for one thing nowhere near as simple a subject as this. It starts at the point you see a person approaching you where you can in most normal cases spot an intent for violence, an odd gait signifying weapon carry and (if you use your head) allows you to position to receive the person in a slightly advantageous position that forces him to change direction/pace etc which will, again, in most all cases, result in an even bigger tell if carrying a weapon, such as resting the hand on a handle, stopping the pendulum of the arm to instinctively "cover/secure the weapon.". Now this was simply the uses it provides before the confrontation even begins. In this test, which was rather stupidly set up in my mind, for one you have the fellow inside of a range most ppl outside of wrestlers and mma dudes don't train at, and you have the dude purposely fixate on your hand when he should be (this part is a bit hard to explain) widen out, the way I do it is look at their eyes, then let my vision "widen" until I can keep track of the opponents entire body language from toe to head without moving my eyes away from theirs. He should be looking for footwork/stances, hip and shoulder rotations and he should be creating the space he needs to accomplish that.
If it was all that flawed I'd be dead today, sure it might not be the optimal system to drill someone into fighting shape quickly but it helps you leverage for a better starting position and allow you to completely negate some fights when the opponent notices the cost involved with attacking you. Especially useful for those 2-3 man thug crews you see around bigger cities at the middle of the night when people are stumbling home from the pubs, they always b-line for you and match your speed, often on the opposite side of the street, all slightly tensed up and sketchy looking, if you payed attention to your surroundings, knowing you were in a dodgy part of town you would have noticed them in a store window as you made a turn... They will almost always peel off to go find easier prey if you notice them early and fake body language that makes it likely you are carrying a weapon. Just a simple example of how telegraphing is bloody useful before the fight even starts, and when aware of your surroundings allows for time and planning. Granted, might be less effective for women and small physique dudes. What I am getting at here is that the human ability for mental cognition will always beat our physical capabilities, we are meat worms built around a digestion system that acquired big brains and learned how to use tools, that's our main advantage. A rock in the hand, a concept of blunt trauma as it applies to acceleration on a narrow stick in power transfer for an attack. All of these weapons and tools we as a species created had one flaw in common that humanity overcame in using them for a fucking long time. They required that you were aware enough of your surroundings as to be able to draw and implement them before you were dead, no? As humans we have that ability, the other apes around us have body language we use for communication. Now, how many things, in any environment you find yourself in cant you pick up or position yourself in orientation to so as to use it for a little bit of space and advantage (say a doorway and a shovel, a walkway + brick, a broom handle.), if not complete victory from the start, at least a much more advantageous position. Got a personal story for you as "practical proof" in a scenario where I was afforded no space, way back when I went to school I had a much older, weight lifting etc macho bs kid attack me. He jumped at me from up a staircase, he got in some hits, pinned me, back curved up against a wall and was trying to land hits while I covered up, I spotted a door handle on my left, swiped his foot and slammed his head into the handle, got him on the floor and turned the entire fight around. Now granted, this was a technique based defense from clinch range but I had the exact same mindset here, I arched my back to get space to move and make it harder for him to land hits on my head which seemed all he knew how to do, I scanned my environment for tools while avoiding damage, I found a tool and applied it to his head. And to be fair, back then i was an idiot hothead that let people land hits first for the "I got an excuse to fight", dude jumped of off the staircase to get on me as I was turning around, was a million telegraphing signs showing what he was intending to do while we were arguing that would have allowed me to ram him neck first into those stairs, mid jump, But my thought was: "I want proof of innocence in starting physical violence", dude got some fractures so I got in trouble anyway, not really legal to defend yourself over here.. We all get stuck into our own mindsets when it comes to violence based on the experiences we have had in life, I have faith in my philosophy since it has been adjusted to keep me alive for 30 odd years so far and I made some shit choices and had some shit luck long the way. And I believe it provides advantages to more mainstream mindsets as it allows for interception and reaction before the confrontation even starts in most cases which is the most valuable tool you can have. I imagine military personnel that gets sent to a hot zone must be drilled in something similar to this idea so as to expect and cover potential dangerous angles in any environment?
Another point is that this fellow is primed to focus only on the hand, making him miss the shoulder movements and eye twitches, clenching of the jaw... but yeah, we all have our own perception, whatever works.
KamiSapmelash so you got jumped? Didn’t you see the intent in the attackers eye, how his pupils change or the other nonsense you rambled on about? You didn’t see it coming? Perhaps he even telegraphed it? No. Time space and effect. Also fictional stories don’t add to arguments, I can make them up just as well.
Like I tried to point out I had a bit of an immature attitude back then, bravado if you will, if you want to believe it's fictional that's up to you, no skin of off my nose XD
What is he talking about. You cannot extend range by moving ur hand back. He was clearly moving to himself. I get his point tho, he got there in the end
You are confusing reach with range. That is the source of confusion here. Reach is how far your hand extends. It changes by body stance, significantly actually. Can you tag the target when your arm reaches out? What about if you rotate your torso just before attempting contact? (You gain 3-4 inches of reach this way and also add power; hooked punches do this naturally but straight punches must do this artificially. However, you slow the speed at which your followup punch will come so is generally only used in combination with a follow up kick or a reset. Sometimes, if your punch connects well, you can continue hand combinations as if you'd thrown a hooking punch.) Range is all of the distances at which a strike is effective. It has both a minimum and a maximum distance. Mick is not talking about your arm magically getting longer. He is talking about how much range you gain inwardly, toward the minimum effective range of your strike, when you are willing to draw your hand backward a little. If you are taught never to pull your hand in before throwing, your range with that strike becomes much more narrow. You lose a lot of your arsenal trying to avoid telegraphing your punches -- and as demonstrated, it's hard to react to that movement. The target was not only too slow with his hands, he generally had not moved his own hands at all before Mick had already struck his chest. Put in terms of science: It takes roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of a second for a trained or even semi-trained fighter to throw a punch. Exact speeds vary based on fighter and type of punch thrown, with hooking punches being slower than straight punches. This measurement is from the first twitch of movement by the fighter to the point of making contact with the strike. It takes the human eye roughly 1/4 of a second to recognize movement and respond with a motor reflex. This means that by the time you see a straight punch, it can already be in physical contact with your face. You almost cannot react to a straight punch. This is why keeping your hands up is important -- you are imposing your hands/arms in the way of straight punches to your eyes and throat, since a strike there is fight ending. The purpose of a guard is to buy yourself that 1/12 of a second to shift your guard/stance and deal with a hooking punch, by removing straight punches as an effective option (as best you can) for the attacker. Practiced defensive movements must always start from guard position and be small enough, efficient enough, to execute reliably in that 1/12 of a second window between your reflexes and the hooking punch making contact. Any slower defensive movement must be predictive -- meaning if you are wrong, you have dropped guard and might take a shot to the face for your bad guess. A lot of predictive defensive movements (the effective ones) are footwork or at least positional, and try to replace your guard position with another means of preventing straight punches. A common one is just stepping in to extremely close range, where only tight hooking punches can be thrown and grappling efforts can start. Another is the bobbing and weaving used by boxers to create the illusion of no target.
Lest C he’s on point, if you’re in range to land effective strikes telegraphing is irrelevant if you’re not in range well you’re not really fighting are you? You’re dancing around, might as well be throwing kisses at the bloke.
Finger to the eye will beat this every time which is why it's not allowed in purportedly real MMA which is nowhere close to real as what I've learned. And the catching his hand bit is a trick. Repeat the experiment only instead of trying to bring your hands together to catch his (or someone elses), just extend your arm to touch the attacker first. Unless you're decrepit you should be able to touch them first every time, it's a nervous system thing; the part of the nervous system to bring the hands together is slower than the part of the system to extend because that is used most often and recruits a faster kinetic chain. Now use that movement to interfere with their punch and you now have the involuntary response that most people implement when confronted with an attack that has a ridiculous amount of gross motor movement. This natural response tends to absorb some if not all of your punch and is really annoying. Finger to the eye as though you're in a slight hurry and pressing a button on the elevator. It's much faster than most would think, because it involves little effort and when directed towards an extremely fragile part of the body which happens to be necessary to place accurate strikes, suddenly an advantage is gained from a simple gesture. And don't do this no aggression hands up shit, it's useless now as everyone and his mother thanks to the internet knows that is a technique to lead into an attack or counter attack. Hands up are a sign of aggression and should be treated as such and really they always have been long before the internet came around. We are primates and as such ploys involving deception are a natural part of our method of fighting. When a man puts his hands up they are in your way, he knows this, they are a defense first and a method to stage a strike. Strikes in general are not nearly as effective as other devices because they do not create the type of pain that induces panic. They can cause damage, but the pain is not severe enough to momentarily disrupt the will to fight. For instance, in a tight clutch, possibly a bear hug, how much pain can a punch induce? Not much, we all know this, or at least we rational people accept this. But chewing off someones nose in this position will instantly render their ability to think impossible if not only the pain but fluids (blood) in their airway. It is in these states of panic that we can use strikes optimally but again, we must stay calm. I've destroyed men that had over a hundred pounds on me and it started with a little eye gouge, and then breaking fingers and finally knees to the solar plexus, instep kicks to the front of the knee separating the knee, to a roundhouse to the trachea. If you want to live, you need to really focus on how to kill a killer not how to out punch a UFC champion because that opponent fights by rules. The most practical mentality as an example is for instance grab an opponents arm with your entire body, yes they will hit you, they might even try to grapple and possible attempt an ankle lock, but how successful will they be at this while you're removing their fingers with your teeth? Think about it, how would you stop a 160+ lb person who is focusing the entire body into holding onto your arm and gnawing off your fingers? What do you do? Do you really think punching them is going to work? Welcome to my world where techniques have been proven to work. Are they honorable? Probably not, but I'm not interested in how it looks, I'm interested in how it feels to anyone who doesn't understand it because they never considered it due to self imposed constraints which in my opinion are typical the underlying cause to nearly every defeat.
It's easy to take down a person who's gnawing off your fingers. You just poke them in the eye like your running to press the button on an elevator. I'm not poking fun at any of what you've said because I agree with some of it, didn't have time to read it all.
pied piper I tell you what tho, it almost half killed me reading the twenty paragraphs in this thread. Poke to the eye, bite to the finger, kick to the knackers? Overrated if you ask me. I'll settle for my 120kg weight behind a solid front snap kick to the head or torso any day.
Here we go again with the "I have some advanced ultra mega deadly technique that involves eyes or balls, and I'll win every fight with it because I'm magic like that". Sure, a thumb to the eye is painful, but if those are your only go to options, then heads up, you don't know how to fight. You think a pro athlete couldn't also poke you in the eye, besides other millions things to fuck you up? Aiming to the eye is not that easy, all it takes is a slight move of the head or even a flinch and then you poke a forehead, which might break your stupid finger. Those are the kind of ninja-techniques people who've never trained or have been lied to by some mcDojo sensei think might actually work.
Silly biocmechanical disadvantage games dont prove a valid point. 1. Lines versus arcs. 2. Self obscuring eyeline of defender. 3. Different muscles and different articulation speeds.
I was having a bit of fun in sparring class a couple of weeks ago. I ran at a guy with my fist out from about 2 steps away and still hit him right in the face. (Picture Superman flying.) By all rights he should have dodged it, or better yet defensive side-kicked me in the ribs. But that didn't happen. I was thinking that perhaps I confused him, but I was able to do it again a few rounds later, and again with someone else. Maybe they both sucked, but nah, they can block normal attacks. Perhaps something else is going on.
But what is your point? It's almost as if you are saying it is ok to telegraph, but I don't think that is what you are saying. I don't think people worrying about telegraphing is stunting their development. So what is your point?
Wow this guy is completely wrong. I thought he was going to make a good point about action vs reaction, which he did, but then he goes on to some bullshit about not worrying about telegraphing. Everybody telegraphs Every punch in very striking art. Uh, no the fuck they don't. That'ss just extremely easy to disprove. Look at the best strikers fight and their shots are straight without loading. "Loading" your punch is 9x out of 10 not even going to give you enough of a power difference to matter. In the time it takes you to telegraph, although it might not give the reactor sufficient time to react, you could have at least thrown twice the amount of punches more efficiently. It's an interesting phenomenon when professionals start thinking they can't be wrong and know everything and just start making shit up because so many purple just eat out of the palm of their hand.
Only untrained fighters load up on punches. A trained fighter doesn't. Yes people do load up sometimes, because they have used a jab or hook to distract the other person. But Boxers should be and most are taught to punch from where the hand is, so as not to telegraph. For him to do this to an average guy and hit his chest doesn't surprise me in the least.
Jeff Phillips Self Defence I'm not saying they are not trained. They are improperly trained. Now it's one thing once you have the better of someone, but it you load up without throwing something before you'll be lucky to ever hit anyone. The statement that every boxer loads up for every punch is not true at all.
thomas abel improperly by whose standards? I have seen people run from 5 metres away with fist cocked and still landed the punch and you think someone who adds another 100th of a second within range matters???? Please
Jeff Phillips Self Defence obviously you've never boxed and if you did you were never good at it. Go ahead and keep fooling and teaching people bullshit.
Telegraphing is always bad no matter what range, the demonstration is a gimmick because well the other person can be less experienced which it seems he is, by hitting yourself and then hitting the other person you use yourself as a brake when you hit yourself in the chest if you didn't and hit yourself but stopped in mid air it would be much slower, this makes it faster hitting the smaller guy by using your chest as a brake. And you can tell the smaller guy was relaxed not expecting you to do it while your talking, you might say "But you don't get warnings in the street when they will hit you" Yes but he's trying to prove a point it's a demonstration. Why demonstrate this weird slap and just demonstrate it with a punch I am sure it will be slower 50% and will see it coming, how doesn't it matter when your taking longer to punch me and lose power while doing so. Now when you do that punch saying "Now we need to stop thinking about punching someone from dead still without making any movement to there" Well you won't be dead still you will move with the punch moving your hip to increase the power and no Bruce Lee is not the only one to not telegraph it requires a lot of training because naturally people telegraph which is why we train this natural habit out to be more unpredictable, faster, and hit stronger close range long range whatever range I don't care. Now yes people still get hit even when telegraphed you know what that means! they didn't react quick enough now put a experienced fighter he will utilise that weakness to his hearts content he sees you twitch that arm back to load the punch he will be prepared to block counter whatever, when your not telegraphing you get from point A your guard to Point B the opponents face let's say much faster it's common sense if you think of it that way and this matters yeah maybe not if your opponent is inexperienced or is drunk or blind but yeah it does matter because that weakness will be exploited by many experienced fighters even inexperienced actually. Now you saying boxers telegraph every shot they throw well they must be bad boxers then, no not every boxer loads a punch that is just false. Thai boxer no they actually definitely don't load punches their punches are actually short and snappy because they use their punches for interference and follow with a kick again if they telegraph they are just bad at punching. Now using MMA fighters as a example yeah they telegraph like crazy But MMA fighters have always been sloppy what do expect. Saying people still get hit when somebody is running across the room with their hand in the air running to hit that person and still land just means that guy must definitely be drunk blind or plan stupid or froze because he is scared I challenge anyone to run at me from half way across the room with your hand in the air coming at me and I bet 100% I will move, make a cup of tea and come back that doesn't help your argument at all. So yes Telegraphing does matter no matter what range your showing your opponent where your going to hit before you do hit also making you slower, weaker unless you use it as a fake which is nice. Good video explaining point A to Point B punch and difference between non-telegraphed punch and a telegraphed one. th-cam.com/video/oCW_Pf30ddU/w-d-xo.html
Smilekajo so without addressing each point because quite frankly I couldn’t be bothered. Watch any fight, street ring whatever they load up and have great success.
Yeah that doesn't prove telegraphing doesn't matter it just proves the other person wasn't ready or the attacker is faster more experienced that doesn't prove anything. Not telegraphing will always be better because it's faster and not telling the opponent where your going to hit, it's common sense mate Watch the video that I put it explains it perfectly. It's like for example where boxers think they are cocky so they dance around with their guard down and punch the guy and not get hit and win does that prove that having your guard down is better than having a guard because a boxer won with it well multiple boxers have and so have MMA fighters that have been cocky. it's the opponent fault for not exploiting that mistake he has done. Do you see how ludicrous your argument is? Oh and saying "I couldn't be bothered" is a great argument.
@@MAl-xz7lc All of it, thats why im asking, sir! Do you agree, that action beats reaction in this demo? So pulling back works in this example, although its only 1 variable. Do we agree here, sir? Thanks for your kind reply!
@@TPSTraining IF THE ACTION FAILS CHANCE IS THE REACTION WILL BEAT IT ITS JUST A GAMBLE, NOW IF YOU TOLD ACTION IS FASTER THEN REACTION I AGREE COS YOU NEED ACTION TO CREATE REACTION 👈.. BECAUSE ACTION REACTS FIRST THAT IS FACT.. 👈 SO ACTION IS HARD TO INTERCEPT..BUT BRUCE LEE.. TOLD US LISTEN AND FEEL.. EVEN BEFORE THE ACTION COMES YOU HAVE TO ANTICIPATE.. BY SENSING WHAT YOUR OPPONENT IS GOING TO DO AND WHIT THAT YOU CREATE DISTANCE.. WICH BUY, S YOU VERY IMPORTEND TIME.. 👈 WHIT THIS AND GOOD TRAINING.. YOU CAN BEAT REACTION... COS IN FIGHTING ITS ALL ABOUT MOTION.. YO GET POINT A AS FAST TO POINT B... MEANING THE MOMENT YOU WANT TO MOVE AND THE MOMENT OF IMPACT... SO IF YOU REACT, IT DOESNT MEAN YOUR FASTER AND BEAT MY REACTION TO IT... COS REACTION IS ABOUT TIME PLACE AND DISTANCE 👈... AND EVERYBODY IS FREE TO PLAY IN IT.. BUT ONLY WHO UNDERSTANDS THIS WILL BEAT ANY REACTION OR ACTION... THERE IS ENOUGH PROOF BRUCE LEE SHOWING IT... A GUY PUNCH HIM YET BEFORE THE GUY EVEN REACH HIS FACE.. BRUCE LEE, S FIST IS ALLREADY THERE... SORRY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND.. GR KARMA 🙏 🙏 🙏
Everyone "Loads them up" because they have to. Loading your punch is the only way to exert enough power to knock your opponent out. Sure you can get lucky with one of his strikes, but 99% of the time this type of striking becomes a slap fight that an adrenaline-laden opponent can shrug off. Look at early UFC and you'll witness countless JKD guys with the same principles as Coup lose out to more effective striking.
calling center-line slap telegraphic? reaction time of 2 hands vs one?? blocking with (2!?) arms going towards your body? why not add a unicycle?, it would be a nice circus act.
Had this stand-in guy had any real training, he would have known how to block or parry that shot. That demo was a bit off. As much as I appreciate the occasional bashing of long held myths, here it´s BS. You telegraph, you stand less of a chance of hitting your target clean. All it takes for your strike to not be efficient is your opponent ducking or slipping or raising his arm ever so slightly, and that´s your shot missed because you gave it away by telegraphing. And what he said about boxers constantly telegraphing - bullshit. They are rotating their hips, shjifting their body weight, but it´s not the hands that move. And a shift can turn into anything, a block or a counter, so he does not know really what goes on in boxing.
I just realized how stupid this demo is since mick gets to show off a simple movement while the other guy has do something outlandish and impractical/untrained/unorthodox like putting his hands on his chest. His response time is tripled. I bet it's a different outcome if he asks the guy to hit him instead.
@@WesternCombatives exactly, so this is useless from how he explains it. when someone has ill will toward you they are already en route to you. so why would some asshole attacking you have their hands up in a defensive posture like in this video??
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! Nice gimmick. His test is flawed and rigged so he could make it work. Very intelligent teaching that, hey, be telegraphic, it still works! Might as well also teach kicks to the head against a knife attack, same logic lol.
I think i'll listen to a bloke that has been in pretty much every combat situation imaginable, from government rescue missions to the special forces, over some fat guy in the comment section.
I stopped telegraphing when I unboxed my first cellular phone.
i think he means when you let someone know what move you are going to make in a fight.
chung chan ;)
+CyBerserk You were still telegraphing until then? You never even got to use telex?
chung chan
oh thanks what he meant...thanks mr irony errr chan
Kubilay Ertuna
I’m still using a Rolodex.
Telegraphing at close range isn't a big issue, because at close range you have less reaction time anyway. In other words, just have a good guard and pick your shots. Just another reason why boxing is real and works. It has a good guard.
Good point that I never considered . Same reason why within twenty feet a knife is deadlier than a firearm . Thanks for the food for thought .
This is a great video. I use this method of teaching as well, im honored to see another master use such a good example! Thank you Mr.Phillips.
I call it 'the garlic range' in my class, if you can smell what he had for dinner he can't see the strike comming
Thanks for your videos mate,,,to the point, no annoying hero music, no myth...just to the point...Lots of love mate!
Boxers use elastic recoil not telegraphing like you keep telling people in the comments, they don't just pull back when throwing certain hooks just because it's easier than throwing it out from guard and sure you can telegraph at that range because you have very little space to cover but anything further away will get easily countered by anyone who is even half competent.
so funny and true! Please keep on posting. best regards
Some good points made here
Very interesting experiment.
Best self defense videos on TH-cam.
Is there a part two or follow up video where he explains any possible solutions or some more options to this dilemma??
Great clip. I've been doing martial arts most of my life and I learned more useful stuff in 8 hours of tuition with Mick about how to have a fight than I did in all the other TKD, kickboxing, JJ, krav etc combined. His body mechanics for throwing the high and lowline shots are spot on - constant offensive pressure and GLF.
He is also someone who really understands the difference between sparring, competing and violence.
chuck farley how much does he cost?
Boxing all my life, and to me the biggest weakness of an untrained fighter is that they telegraph their blows so far in advance. They never have a chance against a trained boxer. Thanks.
thebudkellyfiles boxers telegraph
@@WesternCombatives of course they do, to a certain degree. You have to rotate your body in order to generate any kind of power. What sets actual trained fighters apart is understanding of distance and timing.
whats the Mayor from Jaws doing there?
Great topic and well articulated point. Defensively, here’s my two cents. This helped me get hit less: Olympic style headgear (no “face saver”), gumshield and 16 oz gloves. Take turns slipping punches. Continuous head movement increases odds of slipping jabs, moreso with loaded punches. You will get hit but less. Start slow and at 50% power, then pick up speed/power over next few weeks. Switch to 14 oz gloves then 12 as you get better. Works for sport. I don’t do street fights cause I like my clean police record. However like sport, I bet my odds of getting hit less in the street will also improve after training this way for at least 6 weeks 4 days per week. If you stop, you lose it. Have to maintain this type training.
I always had a work mate who usually pokes my stomach and I usually fail to block it because he is too close to me and this video really explains it well out about effective telegraphing attacks. So I started creating distance and he finds it hard to attack me although some times ending up with his successful poke and now I was thinking should I eye jab him so he can stop this stupid behavior but I decided not to. Yas they say the person who controls the distance controls the fight. And not only that as a combat practitioner I am putting that person's mind to his option A of attack I just don't want to let people around know that I am learning how to combat and that's another form of telegraphing.
What a great vid this is, and absolute brilliant and simple demonstration including explanation of what he means, simplicity works, no need to over think stuff.
DJ Jamie Dee the neuroscince behind this has actually been overly simplified to the point where it is not applicable, becase different motions have different reaction times.
As well, the simpler way to punch is to go straight out, not bring it back firs and then throw it. 1 step is simpler than 2
Matthew Van Helden please don’t use words you can’t spell, shows how ignorant you are
Jeff Phillips Self Defence omg You found a typo, how clever of you. Obviously I don't know the word if I used it correctly but typed on my phone wrong.
Man, just wear your sensitivity and insecurity on your sleeve why don't you
Because there's an e missing in science? Lol are you serious? What a loser
Matthew Van Helden youre the one watching my videos.
Matthew Van Helden and that fact you typed OMG says all I need to know
Powerful strikes can be done from a neutral stance , but it requires a lot of practice to get the speed along with the power. It is advanced technique that most schools do not teach. There is a time and a place for those techniques for example if your in a tight area where you can't get in a traditional fighting stance.
First off I agree (as someone trained in Medicine) but please note that it makes a difference is what part of the body telegraphs AND how the brain interprets that information ... the brain is very poor at analyzing the movement of a single hand versus... the brain is far more likely to recognize the shoulder and the chest moving than the hand ...
there seems to be a lot of experts on the matter this guy is one of the best combat instructors that ever lived if I'm gathering right he's saying it doesn't matter if you Telegraph your punch especially if your arms already out and you throw the first punch if you're close enough your opponent won't see it coming it takes more time to bring your elbows back into your body to throw an on telegraphic punch so throw a punch where your hands are already at but I could be wrong I'm no expert
It's been my experience that most people Telegraph with their feet not necessarily their hands. Any suggestions on that?
You can do what you want if you are quick
OK, this isn't a video about glassing, but I think this single cowardly attack illustrates just how easy it is to hit someone before they can get a hand up to defend themselves. Mick mentioned in another video that the person who hits you with the glass they're holding while you try to move your hand from your glass into position to hit them has already won the fight and I agree. There's nothing 'telegraphic' about someone holding a glass in a bar but it may as well be a Stanley knife for the damage they can potentially do.
We've had some absolutely horrific glassings here in Australia - often woman-on-woman - and in each case you know it had to be in a situation so many of us have found ourselves in : crowded bar, everyone (ok - almost everyone) seemingly enjoying themsvles and bam : instant, life-changing violence.
I believe I know the pub where this young woman was glassed - haven't been there for many years but I'm surprised that they haven't abandoned glass in favor of plastic as many other pubs have done:
i.dailymail.co.uk/1/2018/10/01/20/4678410-6228557-Miss_Watson_pictured_was_brutally_glassed_in_a_pub_after_a_short-m-51_1538421707309.jpg
If the line about 'chicks dig scars' applies to the tough guys out there, I dont believe it applies to women who have to go through life with a facial scar like that. Here's hoping pubs put an end to this madness, even if drinking from plastic cups is no-one's idea of a good time.
Arthur Watts agree mate and this illustrates exactly that, it is very easy to hit some with an empty hand or implement. We have another couple of videos that talk about this just uploaded
Thanks - I'll check out the channel.
I like that guys accent
Can’t say I completely agree. In a street situation, you probably won’t be facing profesional boxers. But in a ring with a profesional, every advantage helps. The tiniest of telegraphing can give you away.
No doubt. But he's talking exclusively about street, not sport, situations. And he always makes that clear.
You don't telegraph with your hands, you telegraph with your eyes and your legs.
Eyes telegraph intent and legs telegraph power. You can't hit accurately without scoping out your target. You can't do a powerful hook or roundhouse without a wide stance. You can't do a powerful straight or push kick without a forward/back oriented stance.
By noticing stance orientation and when feet are planted you get advanced notice of power strikes and you can tell whether it will be rotational (wide stance) or linear (forward-back stance) and from which side it will come depending on which of the opponent's legs is trailing. These are the strikes that can deal serious damage through your guard, the jabs and kicks thrown from a neutral stance can be easily checked and guarded while you counterattack. They will have less than half the power of a strike from proper stance.
B.R., yes you can actually perform a quite powerful roundhouse with either front or rear leg, push kick with front or rear leg, jab or cross or hook/uppercut with front or rear arm, all from the same neutral stance. You will add a bit of power though by changing to a more wide or forward oriented stance. But with proper control of your balance it is quite surprising what power can be generated from a neutral stance.
I can throw multiple kicks from one stance front leg back leg, and throw many punches from one stance, there is no way you will know exactly what coming depending on my stance you might guess that I am a kicker or likes to punch more but that's it I might throw a hook kick, round kick, spinning kick, front kick and I am still in the same stance and my eyes are always planted on your chest so you won't get anything from my eyes mate I can see your entire body while looking at your chest use your peripheral vision. there is no way you can know what kick I will do from my stance orientation unless I telegraph but that just means I am a bad fighter and told you what I am going to do by flinching or doing a step before I kick etc unless I use that flinch as a fake and follow up with something different that isn't telegraphed which is always a nice move.
Peter Carlson that's what i was gonna say.
B. R. A good striker does not need any of these things to execute any of those strikes. Almost Every basic strike should be done from a stable and consistent base with everything moving in only one direction.
On that some note, people do telegraph with stuff like that which is why this guy is incorrect, because if youre a telegrapher the first indication youre giving is not the hand loading up, thats your second or third indiction, which is why it's critical you don't load your shots because it's easier to focus on not telegraphing with your hand than it is to not telegraph with your feet, hips, eyes etc. If i step, turn my hips and load my hand ive eaten up the action v reaction time, whereas if it were just one or two of those it might be ok, without taking into account anticipation.
There isn't even an point in "Loading" your shot, so to perform a superfluous action which benefits your opponent is retarded. You should always worry about every detail of every thing.
The advocating of cutting corners is just ridiculous.
Yeah exactly, if I look at the legs in thai I can't check a kick, I look at the chest 80% success rate
Ok ok, i have to chip in. Non telegraphing is part of efficient and good technique.
Anyone who has fought (and i have fought a lot in competition and in the street), knows.
If you telegraph against a good fighter, well you may as well just shit on yourself, because thats the equivilent....
Yes a fight can happen anywhere, and even recently when i beat the fuck out of a criminial who attacked me in a shop, my movement was paramount.
i kept on the outside and bobbbed and weaved and used footwork, i didnt just stand there waiting for him to hit me cos he was a straight up animal and i avoided every strike while picking him apart and smashed him into the shelves
Actually it didnt go according to plan cos i telegraphed my headbutt a bit and he moved, get it? He moved.. almost cost me my ass.
So for the love of god, pipe dowm with your guru like shit, cos theres never a one way fits all...and nothing is fixed...
..if you want to stand and face an animal at that distance then you are a cretin.
Rule 1, if they are that close to me, im hitting the fucker as they step into that range...and i find space.
This example may applies short range n if someone still like other guy, if moving then it's not gonna work. On the other hand you cant generate enough power behind.
"Is this hand going towards me or you?"
"You"
Shakes his head while pulling his hand back towards himself then starts moving it towards the guys face.
SickLid then demonstrates why you’ve got to think like that. Because you can’t react in time. You’re arms length away brother. You don’t have space or time for the telegraph to be a relevant factor.
Telegraphic? when fight is on its on. Wide stance tell me he intend to hit hart before it starts, but mostly there is a foreplay and he can take me from every relaxed possition into a headlock to push+hit too, insteat of aiming for a one-hit-wonder suckerpunch where he need stance or distract me with his calmdown up hands. If he come in reach with his hands up simply grap them, stand in base and ask whats up?! ,,If he comes aggressiv shouting with hands moving he invite you for the first Hit, or Takedown when you are nice. Later you can tell him you thought he was Hysteric and it was for his own good, cause now he can still walk.
Feel like telegraphing depends on distance and opponents skill
How is that, sir?
I'd listen more to a top level boxer than any online instructor on this topic. They know what works against another top level fighter under real conditions. What kind of movement you can and can't get away with. Plus they do for sure know how to get power into a punch as compared to the woowoo-masters and their one inch punches.
Peter Carlson th-cam.com/video/6vgPPUkIm2s/w-d-xo.html
And the point of a video showing clips of knock outs is?
Peter Carlson top level boxers telegraphing
Most of the clips was from an active exchange where one or both fighters was pretty wide open and a hook-ish punch landed. That's not really about telegraphing, in my humble opinion. Extend the distance to at least a meter and start from a pretty neutral stance. Then we can study telegraphing and how some people seem to not give away anything and others show a week in advance what they're about to do.
Peter Carlson but self defence rarely starts at distance
Only works if the guy is not fighting back. Telegraphing will bite you in the ass while closing distance. The load ups you see on tv are disguised in movement.
there is no distance to close. thats his entire point. hes on about close range. within arms reach.
Head but at that close ..or bite
permacultured and free why? Those are far less effective tools. That’s just silly.
It's all about distance. At that close range the brain can not process and react. Too long a transmission distance. If they started with the hands contacting, he might be ab;e to react fast enough with one hand to block.
Docinaplane yeah mate ur right but in a fight you're both gonna be really close anyway surely?
Ahmet - That's for sure. In a fight, closing the distance is never a problem :-) I just like learning the science behind the harsh truth. Cheers!
He's kinda right
The slap to your chest is actually slowing his response and then the rule atpu placed on what he had yo do to win. just another martial arts teacher trick.
Brian Guichet good counter point
th-cam.com/video/jGYIw_anTBM/w-d-xo.html this punch was thrown and landed from across the ring. I know I know you will argue that the guy was already unstable but are you telling me you’ve never seen that on anyone else? Happens all the time
This is cool to teach people in a self-defense class, but in terms of competitive martial arts, you want your punches to be as difficult to telegraph as possible. Professionals in MMA and Boxing, while they do load up, there is a very small margin of error in terms of landing flush and missing and if you telegraph your shots, your opponent can see the punches more easily and your margin of error becomes smaller.
UNITDW th-cam.com/video/AIzdyVenS3c/w-d-xo.html
Look at these hugely telegraphed shots
When in the pocket either during a heated exchange or one sided barrage, everybody telegraphs.
It's only an issue when closing distance, looking to get in the pocket.
Once in there EVERY boxer telegraphs and loads up.
My coach has pulled me up on it before...with good reason, but never when I'm at close range.
I usually don t have much to complain about with your videos but this one I found a bit odd.
Telegraphing intent and punches is, for one thing nowhere near as simple a subject as this.
It starts at the point you see a person approaching you where you can in most normal cases spot an intent for violence, an odd gait signifying weapon carry and (if you use your head) allows you to position to receive the person in a slightly advantageous position that forces him to change direction/pace etc which will, again, in most all cases, result in an even bigger tell if carrying a weapon, such as resting the hand on a handle, stopping the pendulum of the arm to instinctively "cover/secure the weapon.".
Now this was simply the uses it provides before the confrontation even begins.
In this test, which was rather stupidly set up in my mind, for one you have the fellow inside of a range most ppl outside of wrestlers and mma dudes don't train at, and you have the dude purposely fixate on your hand when he should be (this part is a bit hard to explain) widen out, the way I do it is look at their eyes, then let my vision "widen" until I can keep track of the opponents entire body language from toe to head without moving my eyes away from theirs.
He should be looking for footwork/stances, hip and shoulder rotations and he should be creating the space he needs to accomplish that.
KamiSapmelash refer to the time, space and effect video to see how your argument is flawed : th-cam.com/video/fXaxU2LiIx4/w-d-xo.html
If it was all that flawed I'd be dead today, sure it might not be the optimal system to drill someone into fighting shape quickly but it helps you leverage for a better starting position and allow you to completely negate some fights when the opponent notices the cost involved with attacking you.
Especially useful for those 2-3 man thug crews you see around bigger cities at the middle of the night when people are stumbling home from the pubs, they always b-line for you and match your speed, often on the opposite side of the street, all slightly tensed up and sketchy looking, if you payed attention to your surroundings, knowing you were in a dodgy part of town you would have noticed them in a store window as you made a turn...
They will almost always peel off to go find easier prey if you notice them early and fake body language that makes it likely you are carrying a weapon.
Just a simple example of how telegraphing is bloody useful before the fight even starts, and when aware of your surroundings allows for time and planning.
Granted, might be less effective for women and small physique dudes.
What I am getting at here is that the human ability for mental cognition will always beat our physical capabilities, we are meat worms built around a digestion system that acquired big brains and learned how to use tools, that's our main advantage.
A rock in the hand, a concept of blunt trauma as it applies to acceleration on a narrow stick in power transfer for an attack.
All of these weapons and tools we as a species created had one flaw in common that humanity overcame in using them for a fucking long time.
They required that you were aware enough of your surroundings as to be able to draw and implement them before you were dead, no?
As humans we have that ability, the other apes around us have body language we use for communication.
Now, how many things, in any environment you find yourself in cant you pick up or position yourself in orientation to so as to use it for a little bit of space and advantage (say a doorway and a shovel, a walkway + brick, a broom handle.), if not complete victory from the start, at least a much more advantageous position.
Got a personal story for you as "practical proof" in a scenario where I was afforded no space, way back when I went to school I had a much older, weight lifting etc macho bs kid attack me.
He jumped at me from up a staircase, he got in some hits, pinned me, back curved up against a wall and was trying to land hits while I covered up, I spotted a door handle on my left, swiped his foot and slammed his head into the handle, got him on the floor and turned the entire fight around.
Now granted, this was a technique based defense from clinch range but I had the exact same mindset here, I arched my back to get space to move and make it harder for him to land hits on my head which seemed all he knew how to do, I scanned my environment for tools while avoiding damage, I found a tool and applied it to his head.
And to be fair, back then i was an idiot hothead that let people land hits first for the "I got an excuse to fight", dude jumped of off the staircase to get on me as I was turning around, was a million telegraphing signs showing what he was intending to do while we were arguing that would have allowed me to ram him neck first into those stairs, mid jump, But my thought was: "I want proof of innocence in starting physical violence", dude got some fractures so I got in trouble anyway, not really legal to defend yourself over here..
We all get stuck into our own mindsets when it comes to violence based on the experiences we have had in life, I have faith in my philosophy since it has been adjusted to keep me alive for 30 odd years so far and I made some shit choices and had some shit luck long the way.
And I believe it provides advantages to more mainstream mindsets as it allows for interception and reaction before the confrontation even starts in most cases which is the most valuable tool you can have.
I imagine military personnel that gets sent to a hot zone must be drilled in something similar to this idea so as to expect and cover potential dangerous angles in any environment?
Another point is that this fellow is primed to focus only on the hand, making him miss the shoulder movements and eye twitches, clenching of the jaw...
but yeah, we all have our own perception, whatever works.
KamiSapmelash so you got jumped? Didn’t you see the intent in the attackers eye, how his pupils change or the other nonsense you rambled on about? You didn’t see it coming? Perhaps he even telegraphed it? No. Time space and effect. Also fictional stories don’t add to arguments, I can make them up just as well.
Like I tried to point out I had a bit of an immature attitude back then, bravado if you will, if you want to believe it's fictional that's up to you, no skin of off my nose XD
People criticising don't know what they are watching. There's mick coup, Lee Morrison and then everyone else
What is he talking about. You cannot extend range by moving ur hand back. He was clearly moving to himself. I get his point tho, he got there in the end
You are confusing reach with range. That is the source of confusion here.
Reach is how far your hand extends. It changes by body stance, significantly actually. Can you tag the target when your arm reaches out? What about if you rotate your torso just before attempting contact? (You gain 3-4 inches of reach this way and also add power; hooked punches do this naturally but straight punches must do this artificially. However, you slow the speed at which your followup punch will come so is generally only used in combination with a follow up kick or a reset. Sometimes, if your punch connects well, you can continue hand combinations as if you'd thrown a hooking punch.)
Range is all of the distances at which a strike is effective. It has both a minimum and a maximum distance. Mick is not talking about your arm magically getting longer. He is talking about how much range you gain inwardly, toward the minimum effective range of your strike, when you are willing to draw your hand backward a little. If you are taught never to pull your hand in before throwing, your range with that strike becomes much more narrow. You lose a lot of your arsenal trying to avoid telegraphing your punches -- and as demonstrated, it's hard to react to that movement. The target was not only too slow with his hands, he generally had not moved his own hands at all before Mick had already struck his chest.
Put in terms of science:
It takes roughly 1/4 to 1/3 of a second for a trained or even semi-trained fighter to throw a punch. Exact speeds vary based on fighter and type of punch thrown, with hooking punches being slower than straight punches. This measurement is from the first twitch of movement by the fighter to the point of making contact with the strike.
It takes the human eye roughly 1/4 of a second to recognize movement and respond with a motor reflex. This means that by the time you see a straight punch, it can already be in physical contact with your face. You almost cannot react to a straight punch. This is why keeping your hands up is important -- you are imposing your hands/arms in the way of straight punches to your eyes and throat, since a strike there is fight ending. The purpose of a guard is to buy yourself that 1/12 of a second to shift your guard/stance and deal with a hooking punch, by removing straight punches as an effective option (as best you can) for the attacker.
Practiced defensive movements must always start from guard position and be small enough, efficient enough, to execute reliably in that 1/12 of a second window between your reflexes and the hooking punch making contact. Any slower defensive movement must be predictive -- meaning if you are wrong, you have dropped guard and might take a shot to the face for your bad guess. A lot of predictive defensive movements (the effective ones) are footwork or at least positional, and try to replace your guard position with another means of preventing straight punches. A common one is just stepping in to extremely close range, where only tight hooking punches can be thrown and grappling efforts can start. Another is the bobbing and weaving used by boxers to create the illusion of no target.
@@adcyuumi Great explanation!!!! loveit!!
2:20 it's simply not true
We've trained to attack with any aggression or being touched. 3 feet too close your gone!
Not sure about this guy
Lest C he’s on point, if you’re in range to land effective strikes telegraphing is irrelevant if you’re not in range well you’re not really fighting are you? You’re dancing around, might as well be throwing kisses at the bloke.
nope mick, boxers don't telegraph their jabs
They don't wind them back and load them up
Bollox!!!
Finger to the eye will beat this every time which is why it's not allowed in purportedly real MMA which is nowhere close to real as what I've learned. And the catching his hand bit is a trick. Repeat the experiment only instead of trying to bring your hands together to catch his (or someone elses), just extend your arm to touch the attacker first. Unless you're decrepit you should be able to touch them first every time, it's a nervous system thing; the part of the nervous system to bring the hands together is slower than the part of the system to extend because that is used most often and recruits a faster kinetic chain. Now use that movement to interfere with their punch and you now have the involuntary response that most people implement when confronted with an attack that has a ridiculous amount of gross motor movement. This natural response tends to absorb some if not all of your punch and is really annoying. Finger to the eye as though you're in a slight hurry and pressing a button on the elevator. It's much faster than most would think, because it involves little effort and when directed towards an extremely fragile part of the body which happens to be necessary to place accurate strikes, suddenly an advantage is gained from a simple gesture. And don't do this no aggression hands up shit, it's useless now as everyone and his mother thanks to the internet knows that is a technique to lead into an attack or counter attack. Hands up are a sign of aggression and should be treated as such and really they always have been long before the internet came around. We are primates and as such ploys involving deception are a natural part of our method of fighting. When a man puts his hands up they are in your way, he knows this, they are a defense first and a method to stage a strike.
Strikes in general are not nearly as effective as other devices because they do not create the type of pain that induces panic. They can cause damage, but the pain is not severe enough to momentarily disrupt the will to fight. For instance, in a tight clutch, possibly a bear hug, how much pain can a punch induce? Not much, we all know this, or at least we rational people accept this. But chewing off someones nose in this position will instantly render their ability to think impossible if not only the pain but fluids (blood) in their airway. It is in these states of panic that we can use strikes optimally but again, we must stay calm. I've destroyed men that had over a hundred pounds on me and it started with a little eye gouge, and then breaking fingers and finally knees to the solar plexus, instep kicks to the front of the knee separating the knee, to a roundhouse to the trachea. If you want to live, you need to really focus on how to kill a killer not how to out punch a UFC champion because that opponent fights by rules. The most practical mentality as an example is for instance grab an opponents arm with your entire body, yes they will hit you, they might even try to grapple and possible attempt an ankle lock, but how successful will they be at this while you're removing their fingers with your teeth? Think about it, how would you stop a 160+ lb person who is focusing the entire body into holding onto your arm and gnawing off your fingers? What do you do? Do you really think punching them is going to work? Welcome to my world where techniques have been proven to work. Are they honorable? Probably not, but I'm not interested in how it looks, I'm interested in how it feels to anyone who doesn't understand it because they never considered it due to self imposed constraints which in my opinion are typical the underlying cause to nearly every defeat.
whipivy
You've obviously really never been in a fight....but Kudos, you sure can write.
It's easy to take down a person who's gnawing off your fingers. You just poke them in the eye like your running to press the button on an elevator. I'm not poking fun at any of what you've said because I agree with some of it, didn't have time to read it all.
pied piper I tell you what tho, it almost half killed me reading the twenty paragraphs in this thread. Poke to the eye, bite to the finger, kick to the knackers? Overrated if you ask me. I'll settle for my 120kg weight behind a solid front snap kick to the head or torso any day.
Top Notch...lol..always an option.smash that lead knee then off to the pub, leaving the prick a crying dribbling mess.
Here we go again with the "I have some advanced ultra mega deadly technique that involves eyes or balls, and I'll win every fight with it because I'm magic like that".
Sure, a thumb to the eye is painful, but if those are your only go to options, then heads up, you don't know how to fight. You think a pro athlete couldn't also poke you in the eye, besides other millions things to fuck you up? Aiming to the eye is not that easy, all it takes is a slight move of the head or even a flinch and then you poke a forehead, which might break your stupid finger.
Those are the kind of ninja-techniques people who've never trained or have been lied to by some mcDojo sensei think might actually work.
I know with fa jing explosive power you can strike without pulling the hand back.
Glenn Watts like this? th-cam.com/video/PHt0JYfgVGY/w-d-xo.html
Silly biocmechanical disadvantage games dont prove a valid point. 1. Lines versus arcs. 2. Self obscuring eyeline of defender. 3. Different muscles and different articulation speeds.
Sorry, this is BS. If you load up on somebody that trains to counter those telegraphed punches you are going to get hurt.
James M watch any fight, boxing included and you’ll see telegraphed strikes land time and time again
I was having a bit of fun in sparring class a couple of weeks ago. I ran at a guy with my fist out from about 2 steps away and still hit him right in the face. (Picture Superman flying.) By all rights he should have dodged it, or better yet defensive side-kicked me in the ribs. But that didn't happen. I was thinking that perhaps I confused him, but I was able to do it again a few rounds later, and again with someone else. Maybe they both sucked, but nah, they can block normal attacks. Perhaps something else is going on.
Telegraphing at close range is a non issue....period.
James M yeah this is total bullshit
what are the odds that you will fight somebody that trains to counter? 1 in 3000 maybe more? will they be drunk or high ?
But what is your point? It's almost as if you are saying it is ok to telegraph, but I don't think that is what you are saying. I don't think people worrying about telegraphing is stunting their development. So what is your point?
That is what is being said. People making too big an issue of being non-telegraphic does stunt their development. I thought that was stated clearly?
Wow this guy is completely wrong. I thought he was going to make a good point about action vs reaction, which he did, but then he goes on to some bullshit about not worrying about telegraphing.
Everybody telegraphs Every punch in very striking art. Uh, no the fuck they don't. That'ss just extremely easy to disprove. Look at the best strikers fight and their shots are straight without loading. "Loading" your punch is 9x out of 10 not even going to give you enough of a power difference to matter. In the time it takes you to telegraph, although it might not give the reactor sufficient time to react, you could have at least thrown twice the amount of punches more efficiently.
It's an interesting phenomenon when professionals start thinking they can't be wrong and know everything and just start making shit up because so many purple just eat out of the palm of their hand.
Rofl
Only untrained fighters load up on punches. A trained fighter doesn't.
Yes people do load up sometimes, because they have used a jab or hook to distract the other person.
But Boxers should be and most are taught to punch from where the hand is, so as not to telegraph.
For him to do this to an average guy and hit his chest doesn't surprise me in the least.
thomas abel totally disagree are you saying these guys, who are all loading up are untrained? th-cam.com/video/6vgPPUkIm2s/w-d-xo.html
Jeff Phillips Self Defence I'm not saying they are not trained. They are improperly trained. Now it's one thing once you have the better of someone, but it you load up without throwing something before you'll be lucky to ever hit anyone.
The statement that every boxer loads up for every punch is not true at all.
thomas abel improperly by whose standards? I have seen people run from 5 metres away with fist cocked and still landed the punch and you think someone who adds another 100th of a second within range matters???? Please
Jeff Phillips Self Defence obviously you've never boxed and if you did you were never good at it.
Go ahead and keep fooling and teaching people bullshit.
thomas abel as a matter of fact I have and very successfully mind you. If I new this stuff years ago I would have ko’d way more people.
I'm not so sure I believe this at all
Lipitorforall don’t, go test it
You shouldn’t “just believe it” lol
Telegraphing is always bad no matter what range, the demonstration is a gimmick because well the other person can be less experienced which it seems he is, by hitting yourself and then hitting the other person you use yourself as a brake when you hit yourself in the chest if you didn't and hit yourself but stopped in mid air it would be much slower, this makes it faster hitting the smaller guy by using your chest as a brake. And you can tell the smaller guy was relaxed not expecting you to do it while your talking, you might say "But you don't get warnings in the street when they will hit you" Yes but he's trying to prove a point it's a demonstration.
Why demonstrate this weird slap and just demonstrate it with a punch I am sure it will be slower 50% and will see it coming, how doesn't it matter when your taking longer to punch me and lose power while doing so.
Now when you do that punch saying "Now we need to stop thinking about punching someone from dead still without making any movement to there" Well you won't be dead still you will move with the punch moving your hip to increase the power and no Bruce Lee is not the only one to not telegraph it requires a lot of training because naturally people telegraph which is why we train this natural habit out to be more unpredictable, faster, and hit stronger close range long range whatever range I don't care. Now yes people still get hit even when telegraphed you know what that means! they didn't react quick enough now put a experienced fighter he will utilise that weakness to his hearts content he sees you twitch that arm back to load the punch he will be prepared to block counter whatever, when your not telegraphing you get from point A your guard to Point B the opponents face let's say much faster it's common sense if you think of it that way and this matters yeah maybe not if your opponent is inexperienced or is drunk or blind but yeah it does matter because that weakness will be exploited by many experienced fighters even inexperienced actually.
Now you saying boxers telegraph every shot they throw well they must be bad boxers then, no not every boxer loads a punch that is just false. Thai boxer no they actually definitely don't load punches their punches are actually short and snappy because they use their punches for interference and follow with a kick again if they telegraph they are just bad at punching. Now using MMA fighters as a example yeah they telegraph like crazy But MMA fighters have always been sloppy what do expect.
Saying people still get hit when somebody is running across the room with their hand in the air running to hit that person and still land just means that guy must definitely be drunk blind or plan stupid or froze because he is scared I challenge anyone to run at me from half way across the room with your hand in the air coming at me and I bet 100% I will move, make a cup of tea and come back that doesn't help your argument at all.
So yes Telegraphing does matter no matter what range your showing your opponent where your going to hit before you do hit also making you slower, weaker unless you use it as a fake which is nice.
Good video explaining point A to Point B punch and difference between non-telegraphed punch and a telegraphed one.
th-cam.com/video/oCW_Pf30ddU/w-d-xo.html
Smilekajo so without addressing each point because quite frankly I couldn’t be bothered. Watch any fight, street ring whatever they load up and have great success.
Yeah that doesn't prove telegraphing doesn't matter it just proves the other person wasn't ready or the attacker is faster more experienced that doesn't prove anything. Not telegraphing will always be better because it's faster and not telling the opponent where your going to hit, it's common sense mate Watch the video that I put it explains it perfectly.
It's like for example where boxers think they are cocky so they dance around with their guard down and punch the guy and not get hit and win does that prove that having your guard down is better than having a guard because a boxer won with it well multiple boxers have and so have MMA fighters that have been cocky. it's the opponent fault for not exploiting that mistake he has done. Do you see how ludicrous your argument is?
Oh and saying "I couldn't be bothered" is a great argument.
@@WesternCombatives : Absolutely pathetic counter-argument. Smilekajo already explained why, so I won't bother.
Smilekajo do you get all your fighting info from actors?
@@WesternCombatives : Are you too stupid to read usernames?
PHYSICS WILL TELL YOU ITS BS.. NOW BACK UP YOUR HAND AND GIVE THE GUY TIME TO REACT.. COS A REAL FIGHTER WILL CREATE DISTANCE.. 🙏
Wanna talk about that?
@@TPSTraining WHAT part of RESISTANCE YOU DONT UNDERSTAND..
@@MAl-xz7lc All of it, thats why im asking, sir!
Do you agree, that action beats reaction in this demo? So pulling back works in this example, although its only 1 variable. Do we agree here, sir? Thanks for your kind reply!
@@TPSTraining NOPE 👈
@@TPSTraining IF THE ACTION FAILS CHANCE IS THE REACTION WILL BEAT IT ITS JUST A GAMBLE, NOW IF YOU TOLD ACTION IS FASTER THEN REACTION I AGREE COS YOU NEED ACTION TO CREATE REACTION 👈.. BECAUSE ACTION REACTS FIRST THAT IS FACT.. 👈
SO ACTION IS HARD TO INTERCEPT..BUT BRUCE LEE.. TOLD US LISTEN AND FEEL.. EVEN BEFORE THE ACTION COMES YOU HAVE TO ANTICIPATE.. BY SENSING WHAT YOUR OPPONENT IS GOING TO DO AND WHIT THAT YOU CREATE DISTANCE.. WICH BUY, S YOU VERY IMPORTEND TIME.. 👈
WHIT THIS AND GOOD TRAINING.. YOU CAN BEAT REACTION... COS IN FIGHTING ITS ALL ABOUT MOTION.. YO GET POINT A AS FAST TO POINT B... MEANING THE MOMENT YOU WANT TO MOVE AND THE MOMENT OF IMPACT... SO IF YOU REACT, IT DOESNT MEAN YOUR FASTER AND BEAT MY REACTION TO IT... COS REACTION IS ABOUT TIME PLACE AND DISTANCE 👈... AND EVERYBODY IS FREE TO PLAY IN IT.. BUT ONLY WHO UNDERSTANDS THIS WILL BEAT ANY REACTION OR ACTION... THERE IS ENOUGH PROOF BRUCE LEE SHOWING IT... A GUY PUNCH HIM YET BEFORE THE GUY EVEN REACH HIS FACE.. BRUCE LEE, S FIST IS ALLREADY THERE... SORRY FOR MY BAD ENGLISH HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND.. GR KARMA 🙏 🙏 🙏
Everyone "Loads them up" because they have to. Loading your punch is the only way to exert enough power to knock your opponent out. Sure you can get lucky with one of his strikes, but 99% of the time this type of striking becomes a slap fight that an adrenaline-laden opponent can shrug off. Look at early UFC and you'll witness countless JKD guys with the same principles as Coup lose out to more effective striking.
calling center-line slap telegraphic? reaction time of 2 hands vs one?? blocking with (2!?) arms going towards your body? why not add a unicycle?, it would be a nice circus act.
Had this stand-in guy had any real training, he would have known how to block or parry that shot. That demo was a bit off. As much as I appreciate the occasional bashing of long held myths, here it´s BS. You telegraph, you stand less of a chance of hitting your target clean. All it takes for your strike to not be efficient is your opponent ducking or slipping or raising his arm ever so slightly, and that´s your shot missed because you gave it away by telegraphing. And what he said about boxers constantly telegraphing - bullshit. They are rotating their hips, shjifting their body weight, but it´s not the hands that move. And a shift can turn into anything, a block or a counter, so he does not know really what goes on in boxing.
Watch boxing in slomo
th-cam.com/video/XHxNnpd3NIU/w-d-xo.html
he demonstrates how a telegraphed strike an hit an opponent.... by NOT telegraphing. the strike was NOT telegraphed.
great idea IF you're the guy initiating. useless for self defense.
angrychickin so you are never offensive ie throwing strikes in self defence?
@@WesternCombatives not when the guy is just standing in front of you passively
I just realized how stupid this demo is since mick gets to show off a simple movement while the other guy has do something outlandish and impractical/untrained/unorthodox like putting his hands on his chest. His response time is tripled. I bet it's a different outcome if he asks the guy to hit him instead.
angrychickin if the guy is standing passively in front of you what are you defending yourself from?
@@WesternCombatives exactly, so this is useless from how he explains it. when someone has ill will toward you they are already en route to you. so why would some asshole attacking you have their hands up in a defensive posture like in this video??
Jy praat te veel en doen vok ol
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!! Nice gimmick. His test is flawed and rigged so he could make it work. Very intelligent teaching that, hey, be telegraphic, it still works! Might as well also teach kicks to the head against a knife attack, same logic lol.
How would you disprove his modell of showing how the action vs reaction gap actually is?
I think i'll listen to a bloke that has been in pretty much every combat situation imaginable, from government rescue missions to the special forces, over some fat guy in the comment section.
@@bonkling Thats an argument from authority and doesnt help us here.
The three guys he is teaching will never win any fight
Actually I watched one tear a guy apart in a pub & one of the others is a mental health nurse who restrains people daily. Shows your ignorance.
Come on people, this is obviously a piss take.
Knob
C0de46 great constructive argument, you proved him wrong