P B Plumber Customer refused to pay me
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- A day in the life video blog of a plumber and gas engineer.
A story about the first job i did where the customer refused to pay
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/ @pbplumber
Hi Pete, your apprenticeship sounds just like mine. Worked for my dad and started when I was 17 but payed 16 year old wages . Like that until I was 21. Passed all my exams with distinctions and in my final won an award from the copper development association along with 18 other students throughout the UK and only me at the college I attended Never once did he congratulate me or give me any praise. I’m 72 now and retired with bad knees that mean I can’t really do any job below waist height without shuffling around on my bum. I enjoy watching your videos and seeing all the new technology. I enjoyed my working life and never thought I was in the wrong job, most jobs went well but there were the odd ones that didn’t go to plan. Most of the people I worked with were good eggs along with most of my customers but there again the bad ones would be given a wide berth . Keep up the good work and don’t stop posting the videos 👍👍
Great @D MARRIOTT. Really glad you left your background. Shows that the world isn't too bad and we can get on 😃
So glad you pursued them and got your stuff back. Had a builder mate who had a firm of solicitors not paying 15k for a full office refurb back in the 90s. He knew they would get nowhere with the courts, as the customers were too legally savvy (obv). He still had keys and alarm codes so he and his guys went back on a Sunday and put it all back how it was. Took stud walls and doors away, desks, sockets, office loo, the lot. I would've loved to see their faces on Monday morning.........!!
I work on my own doing bathroom and kitchen refurbs. A lot of the jobs are back to brickwork, renewing the whole lot. I always get the customers to buy the suite/kitchen, tiles flooring etc. I only supply the materials required to fit the items such as pipe/fittings, plastering,electrics etc. I always get a deposit that covers some of the labour but all of the materials. I then get the customer to pay stage payments at the end of each week. Never had a customer screw me over. If the customer even quibbled paying a Deposit I would rather have the time off. Never ever fund a customers job for them. If you doubt them at all walk away. At least if you are paid as you go you are always in control. No stage payment on time, no more work carried out until paid in full up front. If you do good work the customer should always pay. Your standard of work is right up there and nobody should treat you like crap.
Last job I got stung on was a barn conversion for a builders own house. Builder (who was also a local politician) was milking the final payments as 'retentions' on the job to fund his Johnny big boloxx lifestyle and not paying it to his subbies. Anyway we accidentally filled his septic tank with concrete. Whoops. Accidentally knocked a Jerry can full of diesel onto his fresh concrete slab. Whoops. And the QS on the job also hooked me up with a specialist hot shot arbitrator who pi55ed all over his contract which enabled me to bankrupt him personally. Because he was a big shot with flashy friends he ignored my letters. Whoops again. The bankruptcy proceedings also exposed him as a fraudster. Whoops. So fk around and find out punters👍💪
Good man for leaving warnings to future tradesmen regarding this wrongan!
I think you and your dad were very reasonable. I know a few guys who might not have bothered to drain down before ripping it out. I know of a guy who got bounced on payment, he mixed up a bucket of rapid set. Popped round to the house at 3am, popped open the water meter in street. Turned the water off. Filled the inspection chamber with the rapid set. Job done. Obviously there’s been a fair few gas meters mysteriously filled by expanding foam over the years as well. God knows how garden hoses end up in the air intake of balanced glue boilers over night, bloody drunks wandering past late at night I guess. All stuff I’ve been told over the years. When I got bounced by a builder for a grand, I used a superb debt recovery company. The idiots bill ended up being 4K. The moral is just pay, and If you can’t then just try to come to an arrangement with people. 99% of installers/engineers are decent people who will understand. I bet there’s not one of us that hasn’t been really skint at some point in our lives. I had a lady a few years back that was struggling to pay me. She was genuine and up front about it. She clearly wasn’t trying to scam me, things had just gone a bit wrong for her at that point in her life. We agreed an amount she could afford each month. Once she’d made a few payments I told the office to tell her that was enough. She’d made the effort and was good for her word. So that was ok by me.
Any particular dept recovery company you used? Asking cos I've been shafted for 8k and have no clue what to do
@@MrHukd I’m guessing it’s ok to name them here. I don’t have any tie in with them. They were just bloody helpful. They are called Thomas Higgins. From memory I just registered with them and they handled everything. I’d have absolutely no hesitation in using them again. Good luck with your case. I hope they can help you.
@@Lutonman2010 thanks brother👍
Wayne griffen,
That was very nice of you to forgive her, her debt!
I bet your kindness shows up in your workmanship. (I couldn't put into words exactly what I was trying to say there, but it's close.) 😁
Sincerely
Ed
I had a customer who didn't pay, she had her full house refurbished and either didn't pay or paid very little to all the trades, she owed me £3500, it cost me £1600 in legal fees and I also had a barrister as she knew the system better than I did, as I was Still a bit green, I did it out of principle and enjoyed watching her cry her heart out (if she had one, think it was an act), when she told the judge she didn't have any funds, got half of it at least.
Good video Pete, and take note all you new lads to the trade...... don't trust anyone, no matter how friendly they come across.
I'm a hgv mechanic by trade we had it all the time where lorry companies wouldn't pay there outstanding balance so we would wait for 1 or 2 lorries of there's to come in and lock them in the garage and tell them they could have them back when they'd paid what they owed normally got payment within the hour
Never work for friends or family. I once quoted to fit a second hand bathroom suit for a friend. He agreed to the price but half way through the job decided he wanted an electric shower for which there was no pipework or electrics laid on. When I presented my bill he refused to pay saying it was almost three times what I had quoted. I quickly pointed out that I had, at his request, done almost three times the work that I had quoted for and that if he wanted any more work done than that quoted for, it would cost him. It cut no ice. When I eventually took him to the small claims court we fell out big time. It also came to my attention that he was putting it about that I was a 'rip-off merchant' so I had to tell him if he kept it up he would find himself in court again. Thank god I am now retired.
It's called a "retention of title" clause in the terms, pretty standard. Also you say she agreed to let you take it, so she'd have no claim against you anyway.
Really enjoyed this video mate. As a 19 year old apprentice myself it’s nice to hear stories like this from an experienced engineer like you. Would be great to hear about more stories/lessons you’ve learned over the years👍
Title retention is a thing but that just means you still own it.
You cannot remove it without owners or courts consent as you cannot enter the property.
You must leave if asked to do so.
Best course of action a charging order on the property, quicker is to write to their mortgage lender as they generally hold legal title as sum insured.
With all larger jobs check who owns the property on the Title deeds.
You can do this online for less than £10.
It will give you their’s and their mortgage lenders details too.
If you issue the invoice the lender and name them on pre court docs in 99% of cases they will pay you and add it to the mortgage with a chunk of fees.
Without a mortgage your best bet is to secure a charging order on the property.
Taken once by a company for 22k you learn fast!
I think taking the cost of materials upfront helps. Ive never understood why a tradesmen should act like a credit lender, if the customer wants a job done they pay for it. I tell people that payments is made on day of completion. If they don't agree with it I don't do the work. Any larger jobs I take payment of the next stage before I start.
Good advice
Agreed as a builder im not there to finance the clients build they are im never in for anymore than a weeks money and will always make sure the financial side of the agreement is sorted out prior to start of works , if at any point a payment isn't made or there is any ambiguity the job stops and the tools go back in the van!!! That way it looks after both myself and the client.
Why would the customer pay for materials upfront? The tradesman has a credit account with the merchant.
Can't stand those ones that don't pay. They know exactly what they are up to. How it works is that you are entitled to take back or knockdown anything you have done if you supplied the materials.
Got one in court at moment, judge has found in my favour 3 times and each time they appeal it, still waiting for the decision from last court appearance, soul destroying and time wasting
I worked for my dad and one thursday night I went to a stag night and was so pissed I was unconscious, got home about 5.30a.m and at 6 me dad came in said I had 5 mins to get in van we were leaving early, which we never did ever before or after. We did every diesel oil boiler this side of the northern hemisphere, i was hoopin up every job and he kept me out till about 11p.m that night. Long story short I learned a lesson that day.
We also got knocked once, you can take the rads but not the brackets because it is criminal damage leaving holes in the wall, likewise the boiler.
The police came to our house and my dad said he was putting the rads and boiler under test he said he wasn't happy with them. The police said so you will refit them, oh yes replied when the test is finished. Police said when will that be, dad replied when the c##t pays me
I know someone who had a customer that found it was more expensive to have your car resprayed than pay 🤣
Hi Pete, like you worked within a family business, had several dodgy customers in that 30 year period and my dad always said "rogue traders they should do a programme on rogue customers!"
Hi Pete , i know exactly what you mean with customers who have no intention of paying you . I did my apprenticeship with my dad & your story about your apprenticeship mirrors mine exactly 😂 my dad passed away very recently, but it made me smile hearing you say you dropped off at a job & had to get on with it !! Ahh the good old days
My dad electrocuted me once, told me to rip out a house and that the sockets had to come off etc.
crow bar straight into a surface mounted double socket and shot me across the room, he’d not turned all the power off!
My grandad gave him a bollocking 🤣
I remember asking my dad what ptfe meant ! He proudly told me that ptfe stood for plumbers tape for everything, so when we were asked at college what ptfe stood for I eagerly put my hand up & said “plumbers tape for everything “ the tutor was not impressed 🤣🤣🤣
@@PBPlumber
My grandad and I were lifting off a huge heavy cast iron radiator in a school one time .where he just let his side drop and my side landed right on my foot .of course it nearly broke my foot and couldn't walk for two days. Docked me two days wages and said I should of been faster 😄
@@christodd1445 🤣🤣🤣 Chris love that one
This should be on I fucked up but !!
Dad left me to install a heating system & I cracked on with it . The boiler was going to be installed in the garage. I did all of the work in the main house & just had to put the flow & return pipe work into the garage. I proceeded to drill the holes for the pipework back into the garage & I thought it was a cavity wall 🤔🤔 I went through the first block & kept drilling until 5pm came . Packed up & went home 😩 my dad called me & said “what the fuck have you done ?? I said “ I don’t know what you mean! What ?? He said you’ve drilled straight though his freezer & into a leg of lamb they saving for Sunday lunch 😂😂😂
Thank you for sharing this. Nothing worse than a customer who doesn’t want to pay.
Second worst is probably 1st fixing a bathroom where the builder has ripped it out, the floor is just about pieced together with odd bits of flooring and scaffold board. The walls have been taken back to the brickwork and the customer comes in with her new loo roll holder complete with a loo roll on it asking "whereabouts will this go?"
A shame dude. Good idea with snapping the pipes and leaving a note though, hope it saved another poor soul 🤜
I love it when customers say are you going to send me an invoice? And I see their faces look like slapped behinds when I get my debit/credit card reader out and say no you are going to pay me now🤭
Any reviews for card reader?
@@JAlexanderltd I've had one for a number of years, I think they are all pretty similar. I have an original izettle machine and app on my phone. 1.75 flat transaction fee no other costs. I email a receipt straight to customer upon payment. It even comes with some handy accounting tricks such as my wife just loads it all straight onto excel. I think Sumup are less commission but I do a lot of under a hundred jobs and it's worth a pound a pop to get paid and not have to send invoices etc
My dad had the same problem a few years ago, he returned with the key and removed the boiler. The homeowner called the police. Fortunately my dad invoice stated that all materials are his untill paid in full, so he was able to remove his property without breaking and entering or causing criminal damage
Well done you!! They were so lucky to have had you and your dad to do the job. 😊
A friend of the wife had a flood in her back yard. Asked me to take a look.
The buckingham trap on a drain had broken. Took me 3 days to dig it out and sort it.
When i finished she gave me an envelope. So not too appear rude put it strait in my pocket. When I got home found a £5 note in the envelope. Gutted
All parts and materials costs up front, labour when job complete. As a sole trader can't take that risk.
It amazes me how some people have the audacity to try this on and look the contractor etc in the face whilst telling them after you can see the work carried out. You have to have something missing.
Hey PB great advice especially about trying to warn fellow trades. You can write materials retainer into your T&C’s it certainly would not hurt. However the courts have long recognised when title passes in goods, which is normally upon full payment or when the parties agreed title should pass! For anyone starting out if a customer offers you part payment take it and then pursue any outstanding amounts due. We have all been knocked and it hurts. Part payment is never full consideration under English law so do not think you have to accept a reduced amount for your efforts guys! Take lots of photos and cover your 6. Have good T & C’s to start with and you will avoid some heartache. Heating engineer 15 years and an aspiring Barrister for 10 Years :) PB keep up the good work, stay safe everyone.
Great advice thanks mate 🙏🏽
We’re after some good T & C’s for our plumbing business. Where do we start in writing some or does anyone have a good right up we could use to help us cover ourselves?
I always state on my quotes that accepting this quote is acceptance of attached t & c's but wondering now if that would cover me or do you have to actually have the customer sign to say they accept?
Always worries me this as it would cripple a new business like mine.
Well done for getting word out will be double checking my ts and cs
Similar story too me .I work for my grandad .he's 73 now .worked with him since i was 15 .I'm 32 now .long line of plumbers in my family. Business started in 1862. We do alot of work for builders and I reckon about 4 of them have went bust owing us thousands. Most went bust on purpose some folk are just scum .i know a few other plumbers that take 50% up front when quoting boilers etc . Anyway really enjoy your videos, cheers
Great video ,i remember being dropped off in my second year no mobile phones just waiting on the stairs at 6pm waiting to be picked up lol
Thanks fir sharing Pete, please ask all the plumbers you know whatvtheir T&Costs are then compile the most protective version that all us new plumbers can use to stop this awful things happening to others
Nice reminiscing. PB plumber you've got some memories. I've had a laugh working with my Dad and still do. Last job I did with him several weeks ago we didn't get paid. The labourer is worthy of his reward. Love my trade even when I don't get paid. You live and learn.
I get all material money up front plus percentage. If they don't like it I don't work for them. Only ever had one refuse.
Very upsetting. I have been self employed for 34years and only happened to me once. Luckily my customers are all nice. People worry about being ripped off by cowboy plumbers,but it works both ways. I have developed a sixth sense in sniffing difficult customers.
Even PB started from the bottom! Legend
Thank you, interesting story, sorry it happened to you and your family!!
Hold on.....I thought only electricians don’t get paid
Going back in and taking it out must of been such an uncomfortable situation well handled tho
Sounds like standard contract terms but my understanding is that once something is fitted to the property it becomes part of the fixtures and fittings so you can't just go and remove it without going to court first - no matter what your terms and conditions are!
when i have a tradesmen in my house always pay at the end of the job i work hard for my money and so does that tradesman
By default as soon as materials are delivered to site they become the property of the bone owner unless you explicitly say otherwise so in you’re T&C’s.
You can have a retention of title clause in your T&C which gives you the right to remove materials if not paid for. I’m not sure you have any legal right to enter the property unless they slow you to and there can be complications around disability etc. My understanding is it’s not quite a simple as ripping it out.
Also, any damage intentional or otherwise done to their property may be considered be criminal damage.
I was also a dropped off kid myself.
Dropped off with your tools and yer lunch and left too it.
Years ago we had a new start join us . He said he had worked for himself he obviously was still doing a bit for himself as he used to get regular phone calls ,I asked him why when he obviously had customers he had packed it in and he said he had not been paid for a couple of full systems and he just not go on .It's reasonable I think to ask people to pay for the material as it gets delivered. Especially if you do not know them , different if it is repeat business and you know there will probably be no problems with payment.
FairPlay for leaving the notes for other traders.. People like her should be named and shamed in a local paper and prosecuted. Absolute disgusting to know she done it before.
Can you give me some tips on pulling heat through a large central heating system.
I've filled the system and bled each radiator, I've balanced the system properly but the 3x radiators furthest away from the boiler are not getting the heat
Try turning off all those which are getting heat. Just leave the ones which aren't working well on full belt both sides.
As a time served plumber now.. I just thought I'd chime in to say I'm finished with being mister nice guy plumber.. since I was 18 till now at 51.. I've tried my best to be honest with my customers.. but over the last 20 years I've seen that people have changed and the usual trick is to draw you in with the first instalment and then completely use every excuse in the book to not pay.. hence from this day on.. I only do Domestic jobs and the smaller the better.. wether it be Big building firms or that piss taking couple who have know intention of paying, I've seen it all.. ya to nice Pete and unfortunately I see more customers taking you for a mug in the future.. But I hope not 😎👍
wow that’s so sad…
Fantastic video despite the unexpected problems you encountered. Strange setup with breach of water regs. No wonder there was crap in that tank
That was a bad experience I’ve been in business since 1972 have learned a lot I allways get the materials up front and labour on completion
Cash or card there and then on completion, no exceptions. The times I've been promised bank transfers have always led to me constantly chasing and threatening to come and collect my goods, I can't be arsed with the hassle anymore so it's cash or card or I don't leave.
Foss Road South I grew up in Braunstone and remember being left on my own for one of the first times down there to swap a rad and add another in the lounge did the job all went well put everything back then realised I'd left my brand new crescent grips underneath the floor evertime I drive down there I think I bet there still there lol I'm lucky to have never been ripped off but learned the hard way about terms, I helped out converting a pub and everything went smooth the guy owed me and my brother 11k we told him we work on 30 days payment terms but we never had it written in quotes or invoices, the pub opened up for Christmas trade like the owner wanted, he even told us trade was amazing but then didn't pay, he then turned around and said it just wouldn't help his cash flow to pay us at the minute I was baffled he took about 3 months but he paid but that was stressful and lesson learned, great video pb these things need talking about so people can take steps to try to prevent this happening to them and I'd off deffinatly snapped all the rad drops aswell 😀
I was supposed to do a job around ten years ago. I had the bathroom and en-suite delivered on the Friday before I was starting the Monday. On the Sunday I got a message to say she was poorly and I couldn’t start. Then she blocked my calls. I had to get a solicitor to write a letter before she let me get the materials back.
Was probably fhuming with your 8 hour long video when you was supposed to be grafting
Lol
Interesting story. Thanks for sharing with us. I always try to get money to cover materials.
I just got taken for 12,647$ doing refrigeration in a large company. I've made contact with the company who installed all the panels an they told me that this company owes them 80,000$. Should we go to court together?
Love your vids starting my own pluming company on the first of januari in Holland Will get info this as well Nice tip
Must have this in terms and conditions signed before works starts. Also put in a clause that if payment is not made within 30 days you will raise an additional invoice for £150 to cover the immediate cost of debt recover. The total due should be subject to a 3% interst charge per Month compound after 30 days. This will clarify the mind of non payers or those who try to renegoitiate after the work.
Good story, people are scum, damn it annoys me so much when I hear this happening. I always make the customer sign my terms and conditions before a job starts.
My policy is customer pays 100% for materials before job then on completion pay the labour. You do a job you get paid
I’m not Sherlock homes .. but I think the guy sitting next to u ,has some thing to do with it .. I’m sure that’s her brother 😂
I always wrote in my terms all material values to be payed for upon site delivery prior to commencing any work and labour payed upon completion. … it was successful for me and I never was knocked in 30 years .. After all if they intend to renege on the deal all material is yours untill payed for and if there is any disagreement after they paid for materials it all belongs to them and you only have any labour todate to account for etc !
I know was traumatic P.B for you and your dad but you just telling the story has helped or even stopped this happening to your followers. So remember any videos you don’t think are of interest to us could save someone’s company or livelihood in the future. Hope dad doing ok at moment and hope still aiming for them goals of yours lol
Hi Pete. Do you not take staged payments so that you are never indebted for the full amount? 🤔
Yes interesting story thanks for that, all i can add is got done twice one with a full heating system, and one with a bathroom install, the frustration apart from losing a lot of cash is that both jobs, were for bookmakers, and yes I wondered if they were mate,s On the heating system yes I did at least get a deposit, but it's just so sickening , thanks for your video.
Good share there mate. Hope people take this and learn from it. As always mate great video
This is disgusting behaviour. I have learned from stories like this and won’t start a job until i have received half the money up front to cover the cost of materials for jobs that are over £500. The frustrating part for me is I wouldn’t want to remove something i spent hard time installing or waste the time to go back and remove it either.
Problem is Samuel, if you ask for payment up front you will not get the job. There are so many stories out there of tradesmen taking money, doing a runner and not completing the job.
Owed 6k installment on a heating system for a church renovation. Guys just disappeared. 😭
I am sorry to hear about what happened but before I fit the boiler in any job the costumer will already have paid for it that's the way I do it anyway.
Good old treacle towners, im a plumber over here myself, had a couple that have tried flaking me off with payment, I've always said the same, can't pay, il take it away. Still hurts you though 😑
I just went and lifted Charlie Mullins T&Cs and edited it for my business…
She got what she deserve me too I went through that wel done
Hi mate in all honesty, I wouldn’t start a job like that without a deposit. I get the customer to pay for the boiler and thermostat, while I’m with the merchant and all materials plus a bit on top, which leaves the labour cost due on completion.
This is why now we take deposits for everything, we had a builder try to take us for 20k a few years ago never again
If the people are strangers I get 65 percent up front as soon as material are delivered and balance on completion. Doesn't guarantee you won't get knocked for labour but materials are all paid for.
Not had the problem myself but a friend who is an electrician always takes 50% upfront
I would have take it out without draining it down
Thanks for the help there mate
It has happened to me many times 😔
I did a job and it was in a block of flats on the top floor and he would not pay till we did other work for him for free. WE had to do it just to get our money for the boiler. 😔
I’m having the same issue at the minute fitted a boiler for a so called mate of a many and now having trouble getting paid for it
You can pay a solicitor to send a letter of intent this will normally put enough fear into somone to pay or at least get in contact not expensive really either I think I paid £100 but that was a while, ago best of luck
You were dead right doing what you did pb some people are an absolute disgrace doing this and it still happens today in this day and age maybe even more so now.been caught a few times that's why some people I just do labour for customers as you can't trust certain people nowadays.
Thanks sad why do we pay for food before hand
Some people have no shame mate . I don’t know about the program Cowboy Builders etc they need to put a bloody program on about the Twats that don’t pay.
Shame on these people, even with some T&Cs it won't be much good if they do not let you into the property! You may still have to go via the courts to get access to the property and again, if they refuse to let you in even if you have been awarded costs it could be a long time before you recover anything; Best to take a material payment upfront first if you can. Easy to say after the event but try and see if it feels right (The Gut Feeling). I made a mistake with working for someone who did not pay the entire invoice and I did sense that something was not quite right but I did not listen to myself - Its easy to ignore this six sense and override it because that left analytical side of the brain takes over and you tell yourself it will be all right. Lesson learned
Unless you totaly trust the customer always get half the money up front and the rest when they are happy ..At least you are covered ... Obviously not for a quick £20 job ... Should be trust both ways ..
Man, what a story 😱
My dad and I got stung before aswell it's a poxy situation to be in.
Omg...screw through the bath...it happens in the beginning.
Wow hey dude good job Thnks for sharing this content New friend also me Plumber
Hi Peter
I happen to me 2 customer not paying me 1 install his boiler 2 years ago and
1 last years he paid me only deposit what I took after the his not paying me I have to do that way take out boiler from the property
Regards
Faruk
😡😡😡 can’t pay combis coming away
Ask kindly for 50 percent deposit to cover the hardware boiler, rads and pipework. If they don't like that move on.
I make my customers pay half down before the job starts so I don't get burned on any of the coast of the job do you do anything like that
Know idea what you are complaining about , I am a plumber in Ireland and believe me it's happens but NOONE would allow you to come in and take the stuff out lol . If you went in to do so you wouldn't be coming out
Well my friend.. it's actually Ur fault. The general rules before you start Ur job is 50% up front and you spread the balance on the days you going to spend. Basically money should be in Ur account before you fire the boiler. Secondly you can easy get done by gas Safe for fitting second hand boiler if gas Safe registered engineer as happened to lots of engineers. Make rules to Ur self u must secur materials money up front and the initial run then you ok.
Is "boys get sad too" still a thing on your channel? If so I'd like to know if you have a promotion code or anything to support you because I'm about to put an order in.
Cheers from Germany
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you cant rip it out once its fitted no matt6er whats in your terms we had the police stop us taking one out went to small claims 4 times and eventually got all our money bay 50 quid
I lost £1000 from a builder who decided to go bankrupt on purpose
If they haven't paid for it, it's still your property.
Can’t stand customers that don’t pay.