I’ve really appreciated the way Ivy tries to support Harley to leave her abusive relationship in BTAS. It works well with her “girl power” motifs from the time, in an actual good way
@@SourRobo8364 This. Ivy was Harley's anchor and friend I can see the lines blurring, but that would be kind of toxic. It would be a rebound for Harley, and taking advantage of someone who is vulnerable for Ivy. I think it can work if they play up some of the toxic elements. Harley wanting to go straight (lol) with Ivy, but being tempted to go back to Joker, which hurts Ivy's feelings and pride. And Ivy being a deranged plant lover that doesn't love Harley as much as her plants. Modern Harley is basically a different character anyway, and Modern Ivy is kind of in her shadow due to their relationship.
BTAS Ivy stands out because it's basically the ONLY adaption of Classic Poison Ivy(who's only super power was being poison resistant and was otherwise a normal human). She's the only animated ivy with normal human skin and the only one who can't spawn giant plant monsters to fight for her. Most of the episodes either involve her using plant toxins(Pretty Poison or Eternal Youth) or running some sort of experiment(House and Garden) or focus on her relationships with other characters (Harley and Ivy). TNBA went with the modern IVY, in comes the plant powers and in-human skin, and every show since has done some variety of that.
I don't recall where I read it, but I believe Paul Dini and the Fox censors had a discussion on whether to reveal Ivy's sterility in the House and Garden episode. It would have been a serious shame if that was not included, because that added so much to her anguish at the end of the episode when she laments losing everything she gained with her 'family'.
TBH I find it hard to sympathize with Ivy in that episode, considering she mind-controlled a man into marrying her, kept him trapped in a tube and used his body to create "sons" for herself, which is... ew.
I really, really like her plant vampire look in the later shows. Lots of standing around looking unfussed while the room gets taken over by green Zerg. The extra contrast is good for that.
Oh I dunno about that, her current ongoing series has had very little Harley in it. I think she has been in three issues out of the 16 or so that have been published so far.
@@SerumLakethat’s only one series and one barley anyone knows exists. That user is right,ivy only purpose now and days is Harley’s girlfriend/savior which is just cringe. I want Ivy to have her own leg to stand on.
@@keeferkifflom360 As much as people love these characters, I think a lot of people would be better off making their own original works, even if it looks like they took a character and filed off the serial numbers. People get attached to singular aspects of a character and flanderize them into something unrecognisable, which is what has happened with a lot of Superheroes, from DC to Marvel. There's a point where you have to ask why you're riding somebody's coattails when you can be the one wearing them.
I love the fact that Poison Ivy may be a villain, she still cares about her plants especially roses and of course she's like a big sister figure to Harley Quinn especially giving her advice to leave a toxic relationship like with The Joker. Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn are both amazing best friends!🌹🥀
Speaking of how Poison Ivy cares about her plants, I wondered if contextualizing her plant monsters’ existence in this alternate way could further highlight how she genuinely cares about Nature’s treatment (if an adaptation has not already tried this approach yet). Instead of implying that she created the plant monsters herself, what if there was a version of Pamela Isley who detested such experiments as a crime against Nature and only “adopted” those plants as her own “children”, after a different mad scientist villain created them? For example, a version of Poison Ivy’s origin could have Pamela working for a genetics company, originally with the intent to clone extinct plant species back to life and create gene-modifying agents to strengthen plants’ resilience amidst climate change and pollution. But she finds out that her boss was also secretly contracted to create grotesque plant monsters, as an area denial weapon for jungle warfare, etc. She considers those experiments a crime against Nature and even feeds her boss to those plants he created. Yet she cannot bring herself to destroy the plant monsters, believing that they are alive now and deserve her care too.
@@SerumLake I got you boo! I’ll go digital, but a real copy is so much more aesthetically pleasing to me. Imma try looking up her very first one and see how she does
Poison Ivy was one of the best-written and best-performed characters on the show. Diane Pershing's vocal performance was a sensation, capturing Ivy's entire personality from her stereotypically feminine manipulations to the raving hag she always inevitably revealed herself to be. And that voice - SO seductive! I was surprised to learn that Pershing not only does not at all resemble Ivy physically, but - to put it delicately - is not exactly a good-looking woman. To me, this just makes her performance all the more impressive. I've always appreciated - and still do - the fact that Ivy underwent quite a bit of character development on the animated series, progressing from a slutty psychopath to an actually somewhat sympathetic character. It was an interesting progression that she went from hating the entire human race to simply hating men due to seeing the Joker's bullying treatment of Harley Quinn. I first saw Ivy's role as protector of and mentor to Harley as a campy joke, but over time I've come to take it seriously and find it VERY touching. I now consider Ivy to be a central figure in Harley Quinn's life. I even argue that Harley would not be the person she is today without Ivy's compassion and friendship. When we first see Harley, she is a frightened and weaselly young woman, but over the years she has become strong and courageous. When the Joker (temporarily) murders Ivy on the "Harley Quinn" series, it's a heartbreaking loss of Harley's best friend due to the monstrousness of a man she has come to hate. Unfortunately, Ivy has also suffered what is arguably the worst villain portrayal in Batman history. No, not Uma Thurman, whom I actually found appealing in a "guilty pleasure" sort of way. It was Alyssa Milano's vocal performance of Ivy in the "Young Justice" cartoon. Boy, did she phone it in - and I can't really blame her, since it was definitely a poor choice of a role for her. Milano would make an excellent Harley Quinn, but Poison Ivy? A resounding no.
Don't forget about Gotham (TV Show)version of poison Ivy worst portrayal of my one of favorite batman villain in bat rogues never understood why they age her up on the show just confusing. Anyway best version of character is of course BTAS-Diane Pershing's, and want to bring Arrowverse poison Ivy played by Bridget Regan defiantly best live-action version which is saying much.
I found interesting how Ivy look in BTAS and TNBA reflect she becoming less human and more plant-creature,showing how her obsession affected her not just mentally but also physically as well.
I hate her descent into She-Hulk. Green Ivy, completely assassinated one of her core aspects as a villain, which was her beauty and feminine charm. She looks horrible now, and I can't wait for a new version of the character to become popular and get rid of it completely.
@@ligeiasiren4290 Since she hulk is consider by many fans to be one the most sexy and beautfil characters, I don't see why this is problem for Poison Ivy. Artist can still drawn her with green skin and still gorgeus
@@ligeiasiren4290I kinda agree with you, more for the fact green ivy is usually the point she just has plant manipulation powers/the green and such. I personally just like it more that she is creating these plant monstrosity using her botany expertise and such rather than just a super powered ability. Also I do feel it makes it a little too obvious as to what she is, shes meant to look like this beautiful starlit but in reality is filled with pure poisons (like poison ivy itself)
Fun fact in a tie in comic it’s revealed the tnba ivy is actually a plant clone and the real BTAS ivy went into hiding after home and garden, and that’s the reason behind the major design change & why TNBA ivy has more plant powers. Sad they never did more with that idea, that seems like it would make for a really interesting story about stuff like identity, becoming your own being as well as seeing two ivy diverge in what they want in life
@@ligeiasiren4290I think Ivy looks better green. It makes her stand out and more unique, since there is already Catwoman and Talia which both characters are also beauties with feminine charm.
@@nunka34ify I wouldn't go that far. The comics version (if you ignore her backstory) is pretty great. Mr Rogues made 2 top 5 stories of the best Poison Ivy comics on his channel.
If anyone doubts that BtAS gave Ivy a massive popularity boost, just have them read Knightfall; she's one of the jobber villains used to wear down Batman, only rating the same threat level as no-names like Amygdala, Cornelius Stirk, and the Cavalier.
Excellent point. I was reading the 1997 Poison Ivy special that was released to coincide with Batman & Robin the other day and that seems to be the very first time they explicitly made her an eco warrior
Poison Oaky (reference to Harley Quinn there lol) I mean Ivy is my favourite Batman villain (if you can still call her a villain) It was the Batman the animated series that got me into Poison Ivy and made her my favourite. I liked her character, her design and background origins, and her stories for that animated series, like when she teams up with Harley Quinn. I like the meta powers that she has now that I'm guessing she got in recent years since the animated series, then when she was first created back in the 60s. I also love that she isn't really a villain anymore but just wants to save the planet only kind of doing it in the wrong way leading Batman to come up against her to stop her. Also she's one of the best because in the Arkham games even though you have to fight her in the first game, in the third game she teams up with Batman (even if it's to save the plants and not Gotham or its people) she still makes the ultimate sacrifice, using all her powers to give to the ancient tree and in doing so kills her in the end. (She doesn't get enough credit for that in the game) So yeah there's just something about Poison Ivy that I love, and along with Batgirl you gotta love those redheads lol 😂
@@SerumLake hey there I've got a question for you, are you primarily focused on analysis videos or are you open to the idea of making hypothetical videos on the subject of Batman like who can play him best in live action or in animation?, the latter part is sadly relevant since the passing of Kevin Conroy. any great content and a great accent you have to boot.
@@thegladve Thanks! I'm mostly sticking to analysis videos for the foreseeable future (one day I'm bound to run out of topics to cover) but never say never. I plan on talking about Caped Crusader when that eventually starts airing, given that it's BTAS adjacent.
@@SerumLake good luck with that and what not, I don't put much stock into it since some of the cast aren't around anymore, especially the main attraction for lack of better words
In TAS Ivy still remained with her depiction of the Silver Age where she did not have any superpowers. She was just a person that really knew a lot about plants, their poison, how to use them, and also how to genetically modify them to do whatever she wanted them to do. Now she has green skin and superpowers that allow her to control them with her very mind. My question is: At what moment did that change happen? Did it happen in the comics first? And what writer was responsible for that change?
One of the tie-in comics revealed that the Ivy we see in TNBA is actually a plant-person duplicate who thinks she’s Ivy. The real Pamela Isley last appeared in “House and Garden” and is still living abroad.
Probably very similar to the comic book version - femme fatale, driven by vanity, that had a plant theme. She was used in the Batman 66 sequel comics, but I haven’t read them.
I grew with animated series a 9 year old can't really get their hands on comics. But Ivy was and had been my favorite DC character. I never saw her as a villan, just an extremist. 30 years later she still is my favorite character (Uma Thurman version. I didn't like it but I was happy she was shown) I am not a fan of her dating Harley Quinn. Not because of the being gay thing. She could date the dame race. I don't like the couple because it seems as though Harley isn't right for her. It feels like a forced relationship just because they were close friends. I can see the close friendship working but I can't see the romantic relationship.
This is why Batman TAS is legendary and will always be on a high pedestal he fleshed out the villains and gave them their signature traits that carried over in future adaptions
Just found your channel out and started going through your videos! As far as Poison Ivy goes, I always thought she worked best as a femme fatale like she was depicted in Pretty Poison. I always felt she lost that part of her character in the other episodes. House and Garden and Chemistry were great episodes though!
Easily the best version of Ivy. I hated Her redesign in TNBA and the green skin designs for her since them. I also wish the series kept the clear lust she had for Batman in her pre Harley episodes. I think that is something Ivy should always have. Personally I think she wanted to make Batman her sex slave.
For me, they sure did her excellently in the DCAU, implied clones "post-House & Garden" included. Would also think that her chemistry with Harley should stay ambiguous in this continuity. Can't exactly say why, apart from me not minding speculative subtext. (Here's to hoping she's a key posthumous element in the upcoming Arkhamverse game Kill the Justice League, regardless if that'll end up surprisingly good or expectedly terrible.)
Rocksteady and WB have already doomed that by making it an always online live service game. And it looks more like a 3rd person team shooter that happens to have DC characters than an actual DC game.
The best Poison Ivy without a doubt is the one pre-Batman #400. That issue and the ones before were her best where she was after Batman. I can’t stand Harley and so wish Poison Ivy would get away from her.
I get confused about her in the animated series. She doesn't seem to have any powers, she's just a plant biologist, but in other cartoons and comics she can control plants with her mind.
Think of the BTAS version of her as being a bit more grounded - she poisons people, she grows exotic plants, but she doesn’t control plants until much until later on
5:44 to 5:57 I can understand the reason for this change, making Ivy more her own character and not connect to others, but I feel having Pamela being manipulated by Jason Woodrue in her origin gives her development a sort of irony, since she became a femme fatale, using seduction to manipulate others just like Woodrue did to her.
An excellent video. The BTAS Poison Ivy is probably my favorite iteration. I prefer her original look over the greenskin redesign, but I love all the episodes she's in. I think House and Garden is just as landmark an episode for Ivy as Heart of Ice is for Mr. Freeze. It's dark and twisted but also heartbreaking. One gets the sense that Ivy really does want a fresh start and something wholesome, but her desire to have it all on her own terms robs her of the ability to truly turn over a new leaf.
It is kinda funny yet sad how BTAS did better vulva metaphors and the HQ show. But, that show is too busy with making 29 penis jokes per minute to even consider anything else exists. (I'll just unceremoniously mention the green giant.) But, such is the role of modern cartoons... some things are still forbidden.
Until now I never knew about Haley and Ivy becoming a couple, but I do have to admit it- I do prefer to see Harley in a relationship that’s not so toxic. Great video as always btw!
3:46 I miss auburn haired Ivy. I grew up reading old issues of dc comics from the 80s. This is how I always remembered her before she got green skin and fire engine hair. I like both versions, but this will always be nostalgic. I also love the comparison to the may queen from pagan religions.
This is one of those villains where, while I absolutely love the design and concept, the execution has always felt lacking. She’s supposedly utterly committed to being an “eco-warrior”, yet she has no issue with warping her “beloved” plants into unnatural abominations. She is at best indifferent to other people and at worst takes a sadistic glee in killing them with poison or turning them into trees, regardless of whether those people have actually done anything wrong. (Seriously, after Harvey was dead, would she have tracked down every construction worker and killed them too? And she’s utterly indifferent to whether Alfred and Maggie had actually done anything to warrant getting tree-ified) Yet somehow she’s got amazing empathy for *Harley Quinn* of all people, to the point of them becoming a couple that’s *somehow* less toxic than Harley and the Joker? I’m sorry, but there’s just too many conflicting ideas going into this character for me to like her. If they wanted me to feel for her, maybe they shouldn’t have done such a good job at hammering home how willing she would be to wipe humanity from the face of the planet if it would mean “saving the rainforest” or whatever.
THANK YOU! I never understand how Ivy was always this person who hates humanity and gleefully kills people, innocent people and especially anyone who harms the environment, yet Ivy has sympathic for a mass murderous clown lady who I’m sure has 100% messed up the environment with her and joker’s crazy antics.
Also Ivy is straight up commits countless acts of SA in order to brainwash people, including innocent people. Ivy is a 🍇ist, idc how many times people or DC try to justify it, she sees her victims as pawns to do her biding and get them killed. Honestly Ivy would make a terrible partner for Harley or anyone for that matter because Ivy is very sexually abusive. It’s no wonder why DC HAS to make Ivy so inconsistent, because otherwise Ivy would treat Harley horribly.
I never realized how incomplete some of these villains were before the show. Ivy as more of a plant person than a real human being was the take I had seen as being most important. Her relationship with Harley seem not to fit with that, though. It seems inspired by the feminist angle Neil Gaiman introduced.
Up until now, I didn’t know Ivy was a more minor villain. I always saw her as a villain on par with Two Face and Penguin in how important she was to Batman. I don’t know what caused this - maybe it was the Batman comic encyclopedia I had as a child? Probably.
often i ask myself why does poison ivy is a batman villain i really couldn't see the same personal connection most of the other have the batman, while most of the others are fun house reflection of batman strengths and traumas ,she always appear to me as just the plant lady
Without spoiling this video too much, I think the thing that the BTAS crew did very well was make Poison Ivy a mirror of Batman. She has her own crusade and unconventional methods of dishing out justice, it’s just that she’s also completely unhinged.
@@SerumLake Exactly. Environmentalism is a normally benevolent cause. But filtered through her insanity and sadism it's turned into something dark, ugly and horrifying.
@@SerumLake Yeah, also her reform episode makes her obsession with plants a perfect mirror to Bruce obsession and how his mission always gets in the way of attemtps to have normal life (as showcase in Mask of the Phantasm).
I think Harley got overhyped after that AWFUL Margot Robbie version period. Ugh. I've always found Ivy's character havin so much range. "I'm really waitin for an in-depth of her mystical connection to the green. A plant-perspective is something that I can't even perceive but that attempts at it imagine can get CRAZY! And Ivy def taps into to "crazy" aspect. lol
I prefer this Ivy over the rubbish version from the awful Harley Quinn cartoon. Frankly, Ivy was a better off without Quinn, but sadly, due to the popularity of the team in TAS, writers insist on making Ivy Quinn's love interest, depriving the world of a once great female villain.
Both Ivy and Harley deserve girlfriends but I don't think they should date each other. Harley is currently one of DC's most popular characters, and Ivy being next to her makes her play second fiddle. And since Harley is becoming more of an anti-hero so Ivy is just following her lead, and that means Batman's rogues gallery is losing their two strongest female villains. Not to mention while Ivy was less abusive than Joker in btas she still didn't treat Harley well.
Honestly I say that they are more heroes together and villains apart, they I have noticed in their thematic elements have the backbone of helping the less fortunate but approach it in very equally toxic methods, ivy being particularly aware of the harm humans do and take it too far to gain retribution, and Harley barely seeing the harm the joker does to her out of too strong of a blind devotion to help, both would be blind to the insight of the other side if they never had a relationship with each other in the first place, that’s something that I believe why those two have been paired up in the series, being that their fundamentals are the same but their perspectives could not be any more different and in that relationship they learned from the other to be their best selves
This is definitely an unpopular opinion but I think that Ivy and Harley getting together was a terrible idea. not because its gay but because it ruins the message of Harley. Harley for so long was a message and warning about toxic relations and her being together with anyone but "the big J" would ruin that warning.
Yeah, Ivy herself is extremely toxic. It doesn’t matter if she’s hot or has “good” intentions, she’s still very toxic and does some pretty awful stuff to her victims. She SA’s and mindwarps people.
To be honest, looking back BTAS Ivy feels like she had hints of queer coding even outside of her interactions with Harley. It started with a general "girl power" vibe by her having only henchwomen in her premiere episode, but ultimately it's the episode where she tried to create a plant family (which still creeps me the f**k out) that turned my thoughts this way. She wanted a taste of a normal life, so she created a false narrative around herself heavily steeped in hetero-normative ideals. In the end though, that fantasy didn't line up with who she was, and in the end she mourned not her creations, but the loss of that fantasy.
I think the lesbian stuff demeans the sorority side. In the episode, far from seeing love in Ivy, Harley is constantly talking about the Joker. This tencency continues all the way to Joker's Millions.
do you mean from the comics to btas or that after btas she was gay cuz there were definitely subtle hints with harley and ivy, just like with clayface and his "friend" in his origin episode.
She isn't even gay, she still is occasionally attracted to men, her relationship with Harley is her current one, if you're going to be inaccurate, don't
I’ve really appreciated the way Ivy tries to support Harley to leave her abusive relationship in BTAS. It works well with her “girl power” motifs from the time, in an actual good way
Most versions of Ivy understandably hate Joker for his treatment of Harley.
I hate so much that they made them a couple. It's always weird. It's like dating your sponsor.
@@SourRobo8364 This. Ivy was Harley's anchor and friend I can see the lines blurring, but that would be kind of toxic. It would be a rebound for Harley, and taking advantage of someone who is vulnerable for Ivy.
I think it can work if they play up some of the toxic elements. Harley wanting to go straight (lol) with Ivy, but being tempted to go back to Joker, which hurts Ivy's feelings and pride. And Ivy being a deranged plant lover that doesn't love Harley as much as her plants.
Modern Harley is basically a different character anyway, and Modern Ivy is kind of in her shadow due to their relationship.
The best of friends.
@@SourRobo8364 "And they were only Roommates"
The idea of Poison Ivy as a lesser known batman villian is ao alien to me! To me shes one of his most enduring and major antagonists.
Well obviously you weren’t around 30 years ago….
Catwoman, Riddler and Penguin were C-list villains at some point. the TV show is what brought them to the limelight.
BTAS Ivy stands out because it's basically the ONLY adaption of Classic Poison Ivy(who's only super power was being poison resistant and was otherwise a normal human). She's the only animated ivy with normal human skin and the only one who can't spawn giant plant monsters to fight for her. Most of the episodes either involve her using plant toxins(Pretty Poison or Eternal Youth) or running some sort of experiment(House and Garden) or focus on her relationships with other characters (Harley and Ivy).
TNBA went with the modern IVY, in comes the plant powers and in-human skin, and every show since has done some variety of that.
I don't recall where I read it, but I believe Paul Dini and the Fox censors had a discussion on whether to reveal Ivy's sterility in the House and Garden episode. It would have been a serious shame if that was not included, because that added so much to her anguish at the end of the episode when she laments losing everything she gained with her 'family'.
TBH I find it hard to sympathize with Ivy in that episode, considering she mind-controlled a man into marrying her, kept him trapped in a tube and used his body to create "sons" for herself, which is... ew.
I really, really like her plant vampire look in the later shows. Lots of standing around looking unfussed while the room gets taken over by green Zerg. The extra contrast is good for that.
Same
I like both for different reasons, but I prefer that one as well.
not me i prefer her orgianl BAS look
@@Revkorme too
4:14 Most people forget that Ivy was part of the Suicide Squad before Harley was even invented. I still need to read that run.
It's a shame Ivy hardly gets stories of her own these days and is mostly just Harley's girlfriend.
Oh I dunno about that, her current ongoing series has had very little Harley in it. I think she has been in three issues out of the 16 or so that have been published so far.
@@SerumLakethat’s only one series and one barley anyone knows exists.
That user is right,ivy only purpose now and days is Harley’s girlfriend/savior which is just cringe.
I want Ivy to have her own leg to stand on.
@@keeferkifflom360 As much as people love these characters, I think a lot of people would be better off making their own original works, even if it looks like they took a character and filed off the serial numbers. People get attached to singular aspects of a character and flanderize them into something unrecognisable, which is what has happened with a lot of Superheroes, from DC to Marvel. There's a point where you have to ask why you're riding somebody's coattails when you can be the one wearing them.
@@keeferkifflom360i literally had no idea there was an ongoing series. Whats it called?
@@Starboy21003Poison Ivy, written by G. Willow Wilson with art from Marcio Takara (I think). It's pretty good.
I love the fact that Poison Ivy may be a villain, she still cares about her plants especially roses and of course she's like a big sister figure to Harley Quinn especially giving her advice to leave a toxic relationship like with The Joker. Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn are both amazing best friends!🌹🥀
Speaking of how Poison Ivy cares about her plants, I wondered if contextualizing her plant monsters’ existence in this alternate way could further highlight how she genuinely cares about Nature’s treatment (if an adaptation has not already tried this approach yet).
Instead of implying that she created the plant monsters herself, what if there was a version of Pamela Isley who detested such experiments as a crime against Nature and only “adopted” those plants as her own “children”, after a different mad scientist villain created them? For example, a version of Poison Ivy’s origin could have Pamela working for a genetics company, originally with the intent to clone extinct plant species back to life and create gene-modifying agents to strengthen plants’ resilience amidst climate change and pollution. But she finds out that her boss was also secretly contracted to create grotesque plant monsters, as an area denial weapon for jungle warfare, etc. She considers those experiments a crime against Nature and even feeds her boss to those plants he created. Yet she cannot bring herself to destroy the plant monsters, believing that they are alive now and deserve her care too.
@@markcobuzzi826 That would be very interesting!😮
Diane Pershing is a national treasure for givin us the definitive version of Ivy
Did you know that she is also a romance novelist? I haven’t read any of her books, but I’m considering getting some
@@SerumLake Omg! What?! Imma do it, too. Thank you honey ❤
Let me know if they’re any good. I saw some digital copies for sale on Amazon but I don’t know where to start…
@@SerumLake I got you boo! I’ll go digital, but a real copy is so much more aesthetically pleasing to me. Imma try looking up her very first one and see how she does
Well No wonder she is THE Definite Poision ivy.@@SerumLake
Poison Ivy was one of the best-written and best-performed characters on the show. Diane Pershing's vocal performance was a sensation, capturing Ivy's entire personality from her stereotypically feminine manipulations to the raving hag she always inevitably revealed herself to be. And that voice - SO seductive! I was surprised to learn that Pershing not only does not at all resemble Ivy physically, but - to put it delicately - is not exactly a good-looking woman. To me, this just makes her performance all the more impressive.
I've always appreciated - and still do - the fact that Ivy underwent quite a bit of character development on the animated series, progressing from a slutty psychopath to an actually somewhat sympathetic character. It was an interesting progression that she went from hating the entire human race to simply hating men due to seeing the Joker's bullying treatment of Harley Quinn. I first saw Ivy's role as protector of and mentor to Harley as a campy joke, but over time I've come to take it seriously and find it VERY touching. I now consider Ivy to be a central figure in Harley Quinn's life. I even argue that Harley would not be the person she is today without Ivy's compassion and friendship. When we first see Harley, she is a frightened and weaselly young woman, but over the years she has become strong and courageous. When the Joker (temporarily) murders Ivy on the "Harley Quinn" series, it's a heartbreaking loss of Harley's best friend due to the monstrousness of a man she has come to hate.
Unfortunately, Ivy has also suffered what is arguably the worst villain portrayal in Batman history. No, not Uma Thurman, whom I actually found appealing in a "guilty pleasure" sort of way. It was Alyssa Milano's vocal performance of Ivy in the "Young Justice" cartoon. Boy, did she phone it in - and I can't really blame her, since it was definitely a poor choice of a role for her. Milano would make an excellent Harley Quinn, but Poison Ivy? A resounding no.
I'm not sure if I'd say best written or performed, but only because there's so much competition for that in this show. That's a hard call to make.
Don't forget about Gotham (TV Show)version of poison Ivy worst portrayal of my one of favorite batman villain in bat rogues never understood why they age her up on the show just confusing. Anyway best version of character is of course BTAS-Diane Pershing's, and want to bring Arrowverse poison Ivy played by Bridget Regan defiantly best live-action version which is saying much.
Wasn't young justice Poison Ivy just for like that fake injustice league diversion plot?
“Not exactly good looking” dude she looks like a regular old classy woman😭
She looked mad fine when she was young
I found interesting how Ivy look in BTAS and TNBA reflect she becoming less human and more plant-creature,showing how her obsession affected her not just mentally but also physically as well.
I hate her descent into She-Hulk. Green Ivy, completely assassinated one of her core aspects as a villain, which was her beauty and feminine charm.
She looks horrible now, and I can't wait for a new version of the character to become popular and get rid of it completely.
@@ligeiasiren4290 Since she hulk is consider by many fans to be one the most sexy and beautfil characters, I don't see why this is problem for Poison Ivy.
Artist can still drawn her with green skin and still gorgeus
@@ligeiasiren4290I kinda agree with you, more for the fact green ivy is usually the point she just has plant manipulation powers/the green and such. I personally just like it more that she is creating these plant monstrosity using her botany expertise and such rather than just a super powered ability. Also I do feel it makes it a little too obvious as to what she is, shes meant to look like this beautiful starlit but in reality is filled with pure poisons (like poison ivy itself)
Fun fact in a tie in comic it’s revealed the tnba ivy is actually a plant clone and the real BTAS ivy went into hiding after home and garden, and that’s the reason behind the major design change & why TNBA ivy has more plant powers. Sad they never did more with that idea, that seems like it would make for a really interesting story about stuff like identity, becoming your own being as well as seeing two ivy diverge in what they want in life
@@ligeiasiren4290I think Ivy looks better green. It makes her stand out and more unique, since there is already Catwoman and Talia which both characters are also beauties with feminine charm.
The BTAS Poison Ivy is one of my favorite versions of Poison Ivy. 🌹☣️💀
Yeah she was pretty good, especially early on
It’s the only good version
@@nunka34ify I wouldn't go that far. The comics version (if you ignore her backstory) is pretty great. Mr Rogues made 2 top 5 stories of the best Poison Ivy comics on his channel.
The best illustration of Poison Ivy in the comics has to be Shadows of the Bat Annual #3 (1995)
Same
If anyone doubts that BtAS gave Ivy a massive popularity boost, just have them read Knightfall; she's one of the jobber villains used to wear down Batman, only rating the same threat level as no-names like Amygdala, Cornelius Stirk, and the Cavalier.
Excellent point. I was reading the 1997 Poison Ivy special that was released to coincide with Batman & Robin the other day and that seems to be the very first time they explicitly made her an eco warrior
The BTAS crew worked hard to make Ivy imto a strong character that modern creators stripped away to make her nothing more than Harley's girlfriend.
To be fair, that started with the crew behind BTAS as well
Poison Oaky (reference to Harley Quinn there lol) I mean Ivy is my favourite Batman villain (if you can still call her a villain) It was the Batman the animated series that got me into Poison Ivy and made her my favourite. I liked her character, her design and background origins, and her stories for that animated series, like when she teams up with Harley Quinn. I like the meta powers that she has now that I'm guessing she got in recent years since the animated series, then when she was first created back in the 60s. I also love that she isn't really a villain anymore but just wants to save the planet only kind of doing it in the wrong way leading Batman to come up against her to stop her. Also she's one of the best because in the Arkham games even though you have to fight her in the first game, in the third game she teams up with Batman (even if it's to save the plants and not Gotham or its people) she still makes the ultimate sacrifice, using all her powers to give to the ancient tree and in doing so kills her in the end. (She doesn't get enough credit for that in the game)
So yeah there's just something about Poison Ivy that I love, and along with Batgirl you gotta love those redheads lol 😂
After watching the premiere I realised I called Stonegate Penitentiary "Blackgate Penitentiary" - I've clearly been reading too many comic books!
I'm amazed Stonegate has seemingly never carried over into the comics.
Somehow I read that as black mesa penitentiary, but maybe that’s just because I like half life
Worth the wait.
Easily one of the best deep dives into TAS Ivy that I've ever watched.
Too kind!
@@SerumLake hey there I've got a question for you, are you primarily focused on analysis videos or are you open to the idea of making hypothetical videos on the subject of Batman like who can play him best in live action or in animation?, the latter part is sadly relevant since the passing of Kevin Conroy. any great content and a great accent you have to boot.
@@thegladve Thanks! I'm mostly sticking to analysis videos for the foreseeable future (one day I'm bound to run out of topics to cover) but never say never. I plan on talking about Caped Crusader when that eventually starts airing, given that it's BTAS adjacent.
@@SerumLake good luck with that and what not, I don't put much stock into it since some of the cast aren't around anymore, especially the main attraction for lack of better words
@@thegladve Yes, we'll have to see how it goes. But I have faith in Bruce Timm, James Tucker, and Ed Brubaker.
In TAS Ivy still remained with her depiction of the Silver Age where she did not have any superpowers. She was just a person that really knew a lot about plants, their poison, how to use them, and also how to genetically modify them to do whatever she wanted them to do.
Now she has green skin and superpowers that allow her to control them with her very mind.
My question is: At what moment did that change happen? Did it happen in the comics first? And what writer was responsible for that change?
One of the tie-in comics revealed that the Ivy we see in TNBA is actually a plant-person duplicate who thinks she’s Ivy. The real Pamela Isley last appeared in “House and Garden” and is still living abroad.
Poison Ivy is such a great villain. I liked Uma Thurman's portrayal. Karen Gillan could be playing Poison Ivy in the DCU and I hope she will.
Thanks!
No, thank you 🫡
Love your run through of the comic histories. Wonder what form Ivy would have taken if she had been used for the Adam West show
Probably very similar to the comic book version - femme fatale, driven by vanity, that had a plant theme. She was used in the Batman 66 sequel comics, but I haven’t read them.
@SerumLake I've read a few of those comics, they're very good if you already a fan of the Adam West series.
I grew with animated series a 9 year old can't really get their hands on comics. But Ivy was and had been my favorite DC character. I never saw her as a villan, just an extremist. 30 years later she still is my favorite character (Uma Thurman version. I didn't like it but I was happy she was shown) I am not a fan of her dating Harley Quinn. Not because of the being gay thing. She could date the dame race. I don't like the couple because it seems as though Harley isn't right for her. It feels like a forced relationship just because they were close friends. I can see the close friendship working but I can't see the romantic relationship.
7:38 Those plant babies are creepy.
This is why Batman TAS is legendary and will always be on a high pedestal he fleshed out the villains and gave them their signature traits that carried over in future adaptions
BTAS ( Batman The Animated Series) lol i remember when it first came out that show was the reason she is my favorite female villain
I always have thought of Poison Ivy as something of a feminine fatality I character.
Just found your channel out and started going through your videos! As far as Poison Ivy goes, I always thought she worked best as a femme fatale like she was depicted in Pretty Poison. I always felt she lost that part of her character in the other episodes. House and Garden and Chemistry were great episodes though!
Terrific show review
Easily the best version of Ivy. I hated Her redesign in TNBA and the green skin designs for her since them.
I also wish the series kept the clear lust she had for Batman in her pre Harley episodes. I think that is something Ivy should always have.
Personally I think she wanted to make Batman her sex slave.
I doubt Poison Ivy was actually pining for Batman. More likely, Ivy was merely manipulating Batman, as she did with Harvey Dent.
For me, they sure did her excellently in the DCAU, implied clones "post-House & Garden" included.
Would also think that her chemistry with Harley should stay ambiguous in this continuity. Can't exactly say why, apart from me not minding speculative subtext.
(Here's to hoping she's a key posthumous element in the upcoming Arkhamverse game Kill the Justice League, regardless if that'll end up surprisingly good or expectedly terrible.)
Rocksteady and WB have already doomed that by making it an always online live service game. And it looks more like a 3rd person team shooter that happens to have DC characters than an actual DC game.
@@Xehanort10 Depends, really. I actually still remember when Steam was once a memetically lambasted gaming site with too many rough patches.
It defined most of the setting
I love poison ivy
Any particular version, or all of them?
Batman TAS and the arkham games are my favorite versions
@@SerumLakeyes
The best Poison Ivy without a doubt is the one pre-Batman #400. That issue and the ones before were her best where she was after Batman. I can’t stand Harley and so wish Poison Ivy would get away from her.
I really loved poison ivy in the series and got into her from there but movies and shows cant seem to get her right
I get confused about her in the animated series. She doesn't seem to have any powers, she's just a plant biologist, but in other cartoons and comics she can control plants with her mind.
Think of the BTAS version of her as being a bit more grounded - she poisons people, she grows exotic plants, but she doesn’t control plants until much until later on
Poison Ivy is one of my all-time favorite Batman villains! Diane Pershing delivered an epic performance and the character became more popular!
5:44 to 5:57 I can understand the reason for this change, making Ivy more her own character and not connect to others, but I feel having Pamela being manipulated by Jason Woodrue in her origin gives her development a sort of irony, since she became a femme fatale, using seduction to manipulate others just like Woodrue did to her.
An excellent video. The BTAS Poison Ivy is probably my favorite iteration. I prefer her original look over the greenskin redesign, but I love all the episodes she's in. I think House and Garden is just as landmark an episode for Ivy as Heart of Ice is for Mr. Freeze. It's dark and twisted but also heartbreaking. One gets the sense that Ivy really does want a fresh start and something wholesome, but her desire to have it all on her own terms robs her of the ability to truly turn over a new leaf.
As a kid, her seductive wiles and deadly, faux-intimate kiss spooked me out.
Very much the iconic version of the character, and such a cool voice for her.
It is kinda funny yet sad how BTAS did better vulva metaphors and the HQ show.
But, that show is too busy with making 29 penis jokes per minute to even consider anything else exists.
(I'll just unceremoniously mention the green giant.) But, such is the role of modern cartoons... some things are still forbidden.
Villains with a point and good intentions gone wrong like Ivy and Magneto are great, especially for long form storytelling.
There is a theory that says that New Adventure Posion Ivy could be a plant clone or mutant? Because her experiments and her ability to control plants.
Until now I never knew about Haley and Ivy becoming a couple, but I do have to admit it- I do prefer to see Harley in a relationship that’s not so toxic. Great video as always btw!
Thanks, I appreciate it!
Problem is in more recent comics "Harley's girlfriend" is all there is to Ivy's character.
The most disturbing episode is when she kidnaps her doctor and then uses him to create sons that turn into planet monsters.
Poison Ivy’s BTAS design owes a lot to Red Hot Riding Hood.
3:46 I miss auburn haired Ivy. I grew up reading old issues of dc comics from the 80s. This is how I always remembered her before she got green skin and fire engine hair. I like both versions, but this will always be nostalgic. I also love the comparison to the may queen from pagan religions.
Best version of the character.
This is one of those villains where, while I absolutely love the design and concept, the execution has always felt lacking.
She’s supposedly utterly committed to being an “eco-warrior”, yet she has no issue with warping her “beloved” plants into unnatural abominations.
She is at best indifferent to other people and at worst takes a sadistic glee in killing them with poison or turning them into trees, regardless of whether those people have actually done anything wrong. (Seriously, after Harvey was dead, would she have tracked down every construction worker and killed them too? And she’s utterly indifferent to whether Alfred and Maggie had actually done anything to warrant getting tree-ified) Yet somehow she’s got amazing empathy for *Harley Quinn* of all people, to the point of them becoming a couple that’s *somehow* less toxic than Harley and the Joker?
I’m sorry, but there’s just too many conflicting ideas going into this character for me to like her. If they wanted me to feel for her, maybe they shouldn’t have done such a good job at hammering home how willing she would be to wipe humanity from the face of the planet if it would mean “saving the rainforest” or whatever.
THANK YOU! I never understand how Ivy was always this person who hates humanity and gleefully kills people, innocent people and especially anyone who harms the environment, yet Ivy has sympathic for a mass murderous clown lady who I’m sure has 100% messed up the environment with her and joker’s crazy antics.
Also Ivy is straight up commits countless acts of SA in order to brainwash people, including innocent people. Ivy is a 🍇ist, idc how many times people or DC try to justify it, she sees her victims as pawns to do her biding and get them killed.
Honestly Ivy would make a terrible partner for Harley or anyone for that matter because Ivy is very sexually abusive. It’s no wonder why DC HAS to make Ivy so inconsistent, because otherwise Ivy would treat Harley horribly.
I loved Mrs freeze and poizen
I never realized how incomplete some of these villains were before the show. Ivy as more of a plant person than a real human being was the take I had seen as being most important. Her relationship with Harley seem not to fit with that, though. It seems inspired by the feminist angle Neil Gaiman introduced.
Yes, it's really clear that BTAS had a huge influence on Batman, especially his villains.
In Batman Beyond 2: Neo Gotham Forever, Mary Hamilton becomes Poison Ivy 2 when Pamela Isley passed away
these photos make me want to go on a certain website
We must stay focused brothers
Personally Arkham Ivy is my favourite but I appreciate BTAS for laying the foundation to the modern versions of Poison Ivy and Arkham Ivy.
2:05 I'M SORRY, WHAT LOOOL?!?!?!
Up until now, I didn’t know Ivy was a more minor villain. I always saw her as a villain on par with Two Face and Penguin in how important she was to Batman.
I don’t know what caused this - maybe it was the Batman comic encyclopedia I had as a child? Probably.
Ivy was so hot in TAS
often i ask myself why does poison ivy is a batman villain i really couldn't see the same personal connection most of the other have the batman, while most of the others are fun house reflection of batman strengths and traumas ,she always appear to me as just the plant lady
Without spoiling this video too much, I think the thing that the BTAS crew did very well was make Poison Ivy a mirror of Batman. She has her own crusade and unconventional methods of dishing out justice, it’s just that she’s also completely unhinged.
@@SerumLake Exactly. Environmentalism is a normally benevolent cause. But filtered through her insanity and sadism it's turned into something dark, ugly and horrifying.
@@SerumLake Yeah, also her reform episode makes her obsession with plants a perfect mirror to Bruce obsession and how his mission always gets in the way of attemtps to have normal life (as showcase in Mask of the Phantasm).
we need a movie about her
you usually go into depth about character design changes and etc... I was a bit underwhelmed this time around...
It took them that long to make the plant woman an environmentalist villain????????????
I thought that the scientist who she worked for in Batman And Robin was named Jason.
I don't understand the people whining about Harley and Ivy being a couple. A lot of LGBTQ+ people have embraced them, and I say good for them! 😊
I think Harley got overhyped after that AWFUL Margot Robbie version period. Ugh. I've always found Ivy's character havin so much range. "I'm really waitin for an in-depth of her mystical connection to the green. A plant-perspective is something that I can't even perceive but that attempts at it imagine can get CRAZY! And Ivy def taps into to "crazy" aspect. lol
Sometimes I'm #Bativy ship
I prefer this Ivy over the rubbish version from the awful Harley Quinn cartoon. Frankly, Ivy was a better off without Quinn, but sadly, due to the popularity of the team in TAS, writers insist on making Ivy Quinn's love interest, depriving the world of a once great female villain.
Both Ivy and Harley deserve girlfriends but I don't think they should date each other. Harley is currently one of DC's most popular characters, and Ivy being next to her makes her play second fiddle. And since Harley is becoming more of an anti-hero so Ivy is just following her lead, and that means Batman's rogues gallery is losing their two strongest female villains.
Not to mention while Ivy was less abusive than Joker in btas she still didn't treat Harley well.
Honestly I say that they are more heroes together and villains apart, they I have noticed in their thematic elements have the backbone of helping the less fortunate but approach it in very equally toxic methods, ivy being particularly aware of the harm humans do and take it too far to gain retribution, and Harley barely seeing the harm the joker does to her out of too strong of a blind devotion to help, both would be blind to the insight of the other side if they never had a relationship with each other in the first place, that’s something that I believe why those two have been paired up in the series, being that their fundamentals are the same but their perspectives could not be any more different and in that relationship they learned from the other to be their best selves
"Sapphic battle"?
...🌱...🌿...🌎...💚...
This is definitely an unpopular opinion but I think that Ivy and Harley getting together was a terrible idea. not because its gay but because it ruins the message of Harley.
Harley for so long was a message and warning about toxic relations and her being together with anyone but "the big J" would ruin that warning.
Yeah, Ivy herself is extremely toxic. It doesn’t matter if she’s hot or has “good” intentions, she’s still very toxic and does some pretty awful stuff to her victims. She SA’s and mindwarps people.
To be honest, looking back BTAS Ivy feels like she had hints of queer coding even outside of her interactions with Harley. It started with a general "girl power" vibe by her having only henchwomen in her premiere episode, but ultimately it's the episode where she tried to create a plant family (which still creeps me the f**k out) that turned my thoughts this way. She wanted a taste of a normal life, so she created a false narrative around herself heavily steeped in hetero-normative ideals. In the end though, that fantasy didn't line up with who she was, and in the end she mourned not her creations, but the loss of that fantasy.
I think the lesbian stuff demeans the sorority side. In the episode, far from seeing love in Ivy, Harley is constantly talking about the Joker. This tencency continues all the way to Joker's Millions.
And ruined her in the movie lol
■■■■
Would she hate or love vegans?
very good question - I think she'd hate them for eating plants, but some people write her as a vegan, sooooo...
Depends on how she feels about cannibalism
@@justzombie7594
Poison Ivy is not a plant. I think you're conflating her with Swamp Thing.
@@SerumLakeI think she hates it
Hate
I would have preferred she be written as a direct love interest for Batman
The episode "Chemistry" was pretty close to that. And she was a love interest to Harvey, at first.
@@HMNCLunar I meant similar to Cat Woman. A floral fatale trying to who Batman
..and then some clowns made her gay. Cause they cant understand much anything else.
Go back to watching Veggie Tales if B:TAS is too heathenistic for you.
do you mean from the comics to btas or that after btas she was gay cuz there were definitely subtle hints with harley and ivy, just like with clayface and his "friend" in his origin episode.
She isn't even gay, she still is occasionally attracted to men, her relationship with Harley is her current one, if you're going to be inaccurate, don't
I hope women remember that all these powerful female characters were made by men.