I am an englishman 84 years old. I have long believed that neanderthals were more clever and cultured than I was taught. Thank you for this wonderful revelation. Keep up the good work!
Me, too. I thought years ago that we would find that they had art and they have. I believe that Neanderthals were human in every sense of the word, so I find it unsurprising that they were cultured. As I've told someone there are many ways of being human. and this was one.
@@robertstradling4772 Well, they found what some think was a Neanderthal flute but the find is controversial because other researchers think it may have been a bone with holes made by some predator's teeth. However, it wouldn't surprise me if Neanderthals had music if only chanting and singing and maybe percussion and clapping..
@@harrietharlow9929 I should imagine that a predator's teeth impacting a bone should cause the bone to splinter apart longitudinally, the way a screw splits apart a block of wood unless a pilot hole is drilled first. That suggests that the round holes in the fragile bird bone flute were drilled or bored. We know Neanderthals had a way of voting holes based upon beads they constructed.
I've been telling folks for decades that Neanderthals were much smarter and more "human" than most people thought possible. It's awesome that science has begun to prove that, and I am so glad that you are promoting this.
@@mrbaab5932 I was using common sense, mostly. 1) The evidence we had way back when was that the initial "recreations" of Neanderthal appearance were based primarily on a skeleton of an elderly man who was not in the best physical condition (an indication that his fellows took care of him in his old age, if nothing else). 2) Evidence showed that Neanderthals had successfully survived for many thousands of years in a wide variety of climates and environments, some very harsh ones indeed. And 3) there was obvious prejudice against "primitive" humans; too many people had, and still have, a compulsion to want to think of modern humans as infinitely superior to any previous (or current) "sub-humans". It was intuitively obvious to me that Neanderthals had to have been highly advanced and competent people, even if they were eventually eliminated by our slightly more competent ancestors. I hope that is logical and well reasoned enough.
Amazing, the more we learn about Neanderthals the more we reslize that they had capabilities well beyond the earlier studies and results show. They must have conversed also in a more advanced manner to be able to build these kinds structures. Thank you for the information you present to us. Love it.
You are too good for these shorter videos, honestly. Your ability to delve deeply into subject material, may not be realized by some of your newer viewers. I know life has changed for you, driver's license, new paramour, and who knows what else, but you are really good! Anyway, I am glad to see your work.
Oh stop it vegan fighter. You’re not doing her any favors by lying to her. She needs to improve. You’re sacrificing her success just so you get a shot at it.
Thanks for this video. I am writing my dissertation about the ring circles at Bruniquel cave (and as second case study the deposition of the dead by H naledi in the Rising Star Cave). The evidence in Bruniquel cave certainly points not only to cognitive sophistication but also a complex social and cultural structure. Quite possible with some early cosmology thrown in as motivational driver for the time-consuming and labour intensive undertaking to built the structures. It is interesting to note that Jaubert and his team determined that half of the broken stalagmite pieces were taken from the middle of the calcite structures, leaving the root in place, and removing the tip. The geologist Hubert Camus explains that the creators of the structure knew exactly how to create the shape of pieces they sought. If a stalagmite is hit from the side only an outer part breaks off. If the stalagmite is hit from above the shock wave so created delivers a clean horizontal break (Auf den Spuren der Neanderthaler, 2018). This is clearly visible evidence of active problem solving by early Neanderthals.
Learning to make some sort of calendar would be perhaps a strong motivation for the people of the time. There also could be an element of navigation involved. If you imagine a hunter going out some distance to find game, they would need to know a route back home and also may want a method to tell others where they are going and how long they expect the trip to take. This could be part of teaching the new generation of hunters.
@@billmiller4972 I was referring to rings up at the surface not down in a cave. The one in the cave may be for a different purpose but the idea of a stone ring could be in the culture.
My own guess is that they were basically dance-floors in which they would dance, sing and chant, perhaps inducing alternate states of consciousness that they would interpret as having healing consequences for their Clan. Ever read 'The Singing Neanderthals ' by Steven Mithen? Amazing book! Highly recommend! Keep the awesome videos coming! X
When I saw the image, it reminds me of a structure created for ceremony. In our culture here in Canada, Alberta specifically, we create circular structures where the individual would sit to fast, or participate in a vision quest. It makes sense. It enclosed from the elements and the potential,dangers. It’s for ceremony!
Oh your best Yet, which is saying a lot. At first I was saying 'Oh come on, not 175K years ago, no way. Then I watched and was just blown away, thank you so so much. Almost brings a tear to your eye when you stop and think about it, so long ago.
Utterly fascinating. To think the widespread symbolic use of stone circles as sacred spaces by Homo Sapien's - across multiple continents - may actually have been borrowed from the pre-existing beliefs of Neanderthals, is, anthropologically speaking, a bit of a game changer imo.
I am not convinced they borrowed these ideas though because I don't think I ever seen anything even remotely similar. This is something that looks completely alien to me (not in the word that spacemen built it though). I think there are examples of Homo Sapiens borrowing ideas from Neanderthals, the worlds oldest string is made by neanderthals and so is some cave paintings but we have a pretty wide gap between these odd looking stone circles and the oldest we know humans created in places like Karahan Tepe and Boncuklu Tarla (like 160 000 years or so in difference). It might well be that neanderthals created other more familiar looking stone circles outside caves and that Homo sapiens did so way earlier as well but if that is the case, we haven't found those yet so we lack any evidence to claim any kind of relationship. But boy is it an interesting and weird construction. Why did they build it? Was it a religious project? Something to tell following generations they were there? Some kind of rite that meant everyone who became an adult had to go down there and place one or more stones? Or maybe it was some kind of art? It is rather impossible to tell with the information we have. It clearly had some purpose, it is way too far down the cave to be some kind of game for kids and a bit too labor intensive too for that.
@@mrbaab5932 Lol, sorry. Not what I am saying at all, just that the timespan between the earliest Homo Spaiens stone circles we found and this one is 160 000 years so we have zero evidence they are related. This cave were not accessible when those places were built so they couldn't have seen them either and even if they somehow could, they look nothing alike either.
Yeah That's the hypothesis!! But nobody's got evidence that all the different ancient circles were used for the same practices, In most places archeologists haven't got a any form of evidence of what could have been going on there. So I'm gonna stick with protection for the elements to begin with and that is what's being imitated and maybe much later something else.
Love your channel. Very informative and educational. I love learning about history. Thank you for knowing your stuff and making it easy to understand. Your very good at what you do!
It looks like a "hut", or a tent outline to me. Smart and fuel efficient. They secured the sides with the broken stalagmites and the 2 smaller structures in the middle were supporting poles that were propping the tent up. Would be so much easier to heat up just this section, rather than the whole portion of the cave.
Wow. We learn more all the time about our ancestors. I would never have called a species that survived for as long as Neanderthals stupid or dumb. They are obviously more complex than many thought. But time has erased a lot of the evidence unfortunately. So these types of finds are so very important to help correct the record .
The dating method could be flawed. If they relied on the thickness of the coating of minerals since the stalagmites were placed, it could be off if the area saw significantly higher precipitation in the past, which it likely did.
The mind boggles at the possible uses these circular structures witnessed 😉👍 Definitely cool find for those 1st cavers...!!! Hoping the next HUGE find surfaces soon, but these relatively new finds add so much to the equation👍👍 😎✌👍❤🖖
The better pronunciation would be "Neandertal", not "-thal". The reason is that the species is named after the Neander valley in Germany, where "Tal" means "valley". "Thal" is an older spelling of the same word, but was always pronounced as "Tal". Germany has simplified a few language details in recent years (such as getting rid of the Eszett or scharfes S - ß), and this change from Thal to Tal was intended to spell it as it should be pronounced. So there is good reason to recommend this pronunciation - it's not just me being pedantic. :o)
Interesting development, looks like we have significantly underestimated what Neanderthals were capable of doing. Hopefully more finds will shed additional light on them.
You are truly a respite in the online panoply of archaeologists. I know this isn't really your bailiwick, but would you ever be interested in doing a series on the Sauromatians, Scythians, and all their extended tribes? There's some amazing evidence coming forth that indicate they have/had a large genetic contribution to most "European" populaces. Anyhow, keep on creating brilliant content.
Thank you for this. I am interested in these stone circles and standing stones. We visited the circles and other standing stones in Senegal and Gambia some years ago, but missed seeing the standing stones in Nigeria. Perhaps you could do a video about the African standing stones some day?
Fascinating - thank you for this video ! I noticed that the circles were laid horizontally, while later (astrological) circles tended to be built of uprights. Underground would be unlikely to be an astrological/astronomical structure, and I don't see the point in building a habitation hut underground (especially not that deep and far from light). I'm a great believer in the idea that many of our oldest ideas go back a lot further than we think. Is it possible that this cave system had a spiritual significance and that the circles, perhaps with a perishable structure over them to make them like a sweat lodge, represented the womb and the cave entrance a birth canal. Initiates could be guided into the cave to spend time in the pitch darkness and (perhaps with the help of hallucinogenic mushrooms or similar) emerge a few days later suitably enlightened to take up the role of a shaman. But this is just a wild guess of course - hopefully more research might pride better clues.
Some nice feng shui going on with those stone circles. A little paint, some throw pillows and that's one heck of a happening little cave. Reminds me of the limestone caves down in the Limburg area.
I suspect that the circles had a practical purpose. Deep in a cave is likely a safe place to be out of the weather and away from dangerous animals. If you left even a small fire burning in that space, after a while it would be quite warm. Brunt bones does suggest that they cooked dinner. All that really calls the idea into doubt is the question of whether there was enough air circulation to take the smoke away so as to not poison the people with gasses from the fire. If there was then continuous use would be practical for them.
Agreed, a big fire would not be feasible due to smoke,CO and need to get enough wood. Maybe the walls were just a protection against the draft of cold air created by the warm air rising from the fire, so a small-ish fire would have sufficed, as heat radiating from it would be reflected from the stones too.
@@billmiller4972 Also, stone is not a very good thermal conductor so over time the surface of the stone walls would warm up even with a small fire. On the air circulating in and out of the cave would carry away much heat.
The more we learn about the Neanderthals the more apparent it becomes they weren’t very different from us at all. It’s possible that culturally they were hardly more different from early modern humans than prehistoric proto-Celts were from Mycenaeans. Since Neanderthals and early modern humans interbred, the transition from one culture to the other clearly wasn’t insurmountable.
You are a lovely young woman with a great intelligence. The recent stone circles found throughout Africa, some in South America and even in North America is remarkable. I wonder what stories were shared around the fires?
Many years ago I read the Jean M. Auel books. Since then it has been discovered that her way of describing the Neanderthals was not correct, they were much closer to us than previously thought, so much so that we even mixed with them ... Thank you for your excellent video ....
They sure as hell werent dumb they made tools outta rocks, bone and sticks to help fashion clothing outta animal skins. And they were hunter gatherers, which means id say they ate better than most people of today. And they left their mark on humanity. Sorry Keyleigh I got a habit of reading some introductions and right away commenting before listening. Keep up with the videos young lady I dig it.👍😎
Ate better is a bit doubtful since we have found a lot of bones with signs of starvation, hunter gatherers tend to eat whatever they can find. Sometimes they ate a varied diet but other times they were pretty much stuck with eating a very limited diet as well, particularly in the winter. That certainly doesn't make them stupid or dumber then we are, it takes a lot of skill and brain power to survive using only tools you made yourself and finding food or starving. It is what it is, and there are still some hunter gatherers left on the planet even if they get fewer and fewer. Their math skills were likely not very good but it also takes a lot of brain power to turn a piece of flint into a useful tool without accidentally hurting yourself (which can lead to infection and death without antibiotics). Hunting large animals also takes more then a little skill and thinking and we know for a fact that they did that.
@@loke6664 what i meant was they didnt have freakin FDA and cancer causin preservatives everything was natural Take todays fruit for instance in the 1960s when you ate any fruit or vegetable your body got a certain amount of vitamin Today you got to eat atleast 3 or 4 of the same fruit or vegetable to acquire the same nutrition, and im sure the animals didnt have chronic wasting disease or any other or similar diseases, now lets get to the toxicity of life sustaining water, in 60s when I was kid I would out of pretty much any stream creek or river in Appalachia, I wont fu%& around like that any more
I believe ancient humans and humanoids haven't evolved as much in intelligence up to today. I like to believe tools have advanced instead of intelligence. My belief is that we are just as intelligent as we have been thousands maybe even millions of years ago, but though sharing knowledge amongst eachother (humanoids in general) we became what we are today. This is what fascinates me the most
Not really. Making plans for the future needs the ability of abstract thought. This was developed by the use of entheogens, mind shifters, consciousness changers. Present UK laws have outlawed their use.
"I like to believe tools have advanced instead of intelligence." Indeed. An 'educated man' isn't smarter, but simply more experienced toward specific tasks in a limited field of experience - and modern metrics like the 'Intelligence Quotient' reinforce that assumption when simply practicing the specific mathematical problem solving, 'makes people smarter' (see e.g. 'Effects of Practice on the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale-IV Across 3- and 6-Month Intervals' in 2012). There appear to be _always_ 'outliers' in the 'bellcurve' of cognitive ability who are _physiologically handicapped_ in their ability to focus, resulting in a state of 'retarded' development, but ancient empires and their level of practized abstraction (the strategic planning of a 'Fiscal-Military State' that was defined only for the 17th century) - or the rapid modernization of overwhelmingly illiterate populations 19th century Mandschu China - with the longest tradition of institutionalized meritocracy before the Nomadic military occupation - could simply not be explained if 'colonial modernity' were the actual standard of intelligence...
Hi Kayleigh! I'm a newcomer and loved your video. A question raised is: what the purpose of such thing? We probably never know. Greetings from Brasil (with an "s" as we brazilians name the country)..
Well done Kayleigh. As always, your narrative is fresh and open to new ideas and not stuck in the 19th century fixed opinion on everything history... :-)
First time I've seen this incredible find, thanks! Given its location and size, is it possible that the planning and work were done by a single artisan/artist? A Neanderthal Da Vinc whose work can only now be appreciated ?
Kayleigh, modern humans were here long before 175,000 years ago so it can not be said that modern humans could not have possibly had a hand in the stone circles in the cave. Now I am happy to accept that Neanderthals were the creators the stone displays deep within the cave in question but lets not misstate modern humanity's timeline and say that modern humans could not have possibly been in this area 175,000 years ago. Frankly, our currently accepted concept of just when "modern humans" made their way into the European continent is not so iron clad as to support that kind of statement. While I totally agree that the Neanderthal hypothesis in the most likely explanation in this particular case, I would nonetheless caution you against declaring that to be an unassailable fact. After all, you may one day need a little wiggle room should new details come to light down the long and dimly lit road of history.
THANKS FOR THE VIDEO! And showing that Neanderthals were not just big brutes! After all, they did have bigger brains! I hope you are having a great weekend!
Just a guess but maybe the stalactites were collected into a ring as a sort of foundation. The idea would be to support branches to get their sleeping gear/animal skins off the floor of the damp cave. The fires may have been a collecting place for embers or heated stones brought form bigger fires outside so the cave didn't fill with CO2. Maybe the smoldering embers kept dangerous animals from entering the cave as well. Once you were resigned to living in a cave it would only take a few miserable nights to motivate you to get off the damp ground.
Stalagmites form on a cave floor and they "might" reach the cave ceiling. Stalactites are stuck "tight" to the ceiling and may reach the cave floor. Kayleigh got it right (of course), I wanted to give a handy memory aid to those who aren't familiar with cave geology.
Hardly a useful memory aid. You could equally well say Stalagmites form on a cave ceiling and they "might" reach the floor, while. Stalactites are stuck "tight" to the cave floor and may reach the ceiling! Actually neither is true, as ultimately stalactite meets a stalagmite. It's much simpler to notice the g in stalagmite which reminds us of the ground, while the c in stalactite could refer to the ceiling or the t to the top.
@@gramail2009 Well it worked for me. I learned that as a grade schooler 45+ years ago and it's still with me. Also, if stalactites weren't tight to the ceiling, they'd fall down.
Neanderthals have historically been depicted as dumb and brutish rather than intelligent, creative and social as the second description shows that there is nothing special about us - which some religious people would find hard to reconcile with. The first time I read about these structures I couldn't help but think of Lovecrafts "Rats in the Walls" - anyone else reminded of this?
Very interesting, and food for a question that has long been on my mind. How can we actually be sure that Neanderthals weren't as intelligent, or even more intelligent than us (Homo Sapiens Sapiens)? They could have disappeared for a number of other reasons, such as being outcompeted by sheer force of numbers.
hi, Kayleigh! i had heard of this discovery but, at that time they weren't sure who had made these structures. pretty cool that Neanderthals were the creators. another nail in the coffin of the "brutish apeman" theory of our close cousin. they had art, music, language and created glue, rope and clothing. now, we see, they were capable of abstract thought and expression of said thoughts. Neanderthals were an extremely successful lineage, evidenced by the long time-span of their existence. Homo Sapiens have only been around for a fraction of that time. yes, our lineage has become more technologicaly advanced in that time but, that is a function of evolution; our descendants may consider us to be primitive, in 50,000 yrs. anyhoo, another great episode in your human evolution series, Klee! thank you! also, enjoy your new found freedom on the road! but, be vewy, vewy caewful! please?!?!
Well put, Floyd. One point. Our apparent rapid rise to technology may not be evolutionary per se, but more a function of opportunity and luck. We have enjoyed almost 20,000 years with out getting smacked down by some global catastrophe. As we are learning this may actually be a rare situation in the overall history of man. Fox out
@@barrywalser2384 well, hey, Barry! missed ya in the chat! truly interesting characters, Neanderthals. i think i've known a few, maybe even related to some.
@@vulpesvulpes5177-- Technology wasn't rapid at all until around 12,000 years ago when humans started farming and building permanent settlements. Prior to that technology remained primarily stagnant for hundreds of thousands of years.
Thanks. Is there any evidence of structures of similar complexity associated with any other Neanderthal sites, or even just structures created around the same time period?
Great, really interesting. I am undecided if these structures were ritualistic or for a sense of coziness that most species look for when they want to enjoy a good sleep.
Such a beautiful smart girl that talks about things I love hearing about all my life. Wish I was younger. 54 seems so old these day....Even if I think Im 25 still lol.
Well, maybe we can do some “Process of Elimination”. Being so far underground, I doubt that it was used as an Astronomical Calendar as so many Henges around the world were. Maybe it was used as a “Common” for Group Activities, while “Private”spaces were random nooks and crannies used for Sleeping, storage, etc. Food for Thought.
Ik zou best wel eens terug gefilts willen worden naar die tijd maar helaas bestaat er geen teletijdmachine zo als die van dokter barabas uit suske en wiske . Ik ben er zo nieuwsgierig naar om met je eigen ogen hoe deze mensen leefden. Groetjes uit Vlaardingen 🇳🇱🇳🇱🤩
"Pre-history with Kayleigh" is more accurate. You can't rule out natural causes to the pattern - could be cave flooding, seismic activity - flooding can create some debris patterns that look thought out. Nevertheless - your program always offer interesting speculation - thanks.
Neanderthals didn't really disappear. We are in fact part Neanderthal. I think they were highly intelligent, much more adaptable and resourceful than they are credited for.
An old, highly visual, memory aid: The mites go up and the tites go down. You have to bring along a "stalag" for the mites (apparently some sort of foundation), or a "stalac" for the tites (probably a hanger of sorts) to complete the word after you figure out which one you are referring to. Does Amazon carry those?
I am an englishman 84 years old. I have long believed that neanderthals were more clever and cultured than I was taught. Thank you for this wonderful revelation. Keep up the good work!
Me, too. I thought years ago that we would find that they had art and they have. I believe that Neanderthals were human in every sense of the word, so I find it unsurprising that they were cultured. As I've told someone there are many ways of being human. and this was one.
@@harrietharlow9929 I have wondered whether they made music too.
@@robertstradling4772 Well, they found what some think was a Neanderthal flute but the find is controversial because other researchers think it may have been a bone with holes made by some predator's teeth. However, it wouldn't surprise me if Neanderthals had music if only chanting and singing and maybe percussion and clapping..
@@harrietharlow9929 I should imagine that a predator's teeth impacting a bone should cause the bone to splinter apart longitudinally, the way a screw splits apart a block of wood unless a pilot hole is drilled first. That suggests that the round holes in the fragile bird bone flute were drilled or bored. We know Neanderthals had a way of voting holes based upon beads they constructed.
It was the experts that first told us of Neanderthals that told us they were brutish.
I've been telling folks for decades that Neanderthals were much smarter and more "human" than most people thought possible. It's awesome that science has begun to prove that, and I am so glad that you are promoting this.
Same here. The evidence has been staring us the face for decades.
So, if you were not using science to shoe that Neanderthals were more human than thought, what were you using? Your imagination?
Meet too, by all accounts.
@@mrbaab5932 I was using common sense, mostly. 1) The evidence we had way back when was that the initial "recreations" of Neanderthal appearance were based primarily on a skeleton of an elderly man who was not in the best physical condition (an indication that his fellows took care of him in his old age, if nothing else). 2) Evidence showed that Neanderthals had successfully survived for many thousands of years in a wide variety of climates and environments, some very harsh ones indeed. And 3) there was obvious prejudice against "primitive" humans; too many people had, and still have, a compulsion to want to think of modern humans as infinitely superior to any previous (or current) "sub-humans". It was intuitively obvious to me that Neanderthals had to have been highly advanced and competent people, even if they were eventually eliminated by our slightly more competent ancestors. I hope that is logical and well reasoned enough.
Everyone has been saying this for 20+ years. Kayleigh thinks she's talking to people from the 1900's.
Having practiced historical technology re-creation for 30 years I completely believe ancient humans knew and accomplished far more than we know
Amazing, the more we learn about Neanderthals the more we reslize that they had capabilities well beyond the earlier studies and results show. They must have conversed also in a more advanced manner to be able to build these kinds structures. Thank you for the information you present to us. Love it.
The map of these structures look like an early copy of Gobekli Tepi ;) . Nice video.
You are too good for these shorter videos, honestly. Your ability to delve deeply into subject material, may not be realized by some of your newer viewers. I know life has changed for you, driver's license, new paramour, and who knows what else, but you are really good! Anyway, I am glad to see your work.
I love the short format, I'd actually stopped watching the in depth ones.
Nah. Don't want this. Seems like she can't decide if she is an Only Fan model or Serious.
Oh stop it vegan fighter. You’re not doing her any favors by lying to her. She needs to improve. You’re sacrificing her success just so you get a shot at it.
I prefer the short ones to start off on a subject
Thanks for this video. I am writing my dissertation about the ring circles at Bruniquel cave (and as second case study the deposition of the dead by H naledi in the Rising Star Cave). The evidence in Bruniquel cave certainly points not only to cognitive sophistication but also a complex social and cultural structure. Quite possible with some early cosmology thrown in as motivational driver for the time-consuming and labour intensive undertaking to built the structures.
It is interesting to note that Jaubert and his team determined that half of the broken stalagmite pieces were taken from the middle of the calcite structures, leaving the root in place, and removing the tip. The geologist Hubert Camus explains that the creators of the structure knew exactly how to create the shape of pieces they sought. If a stalagmite is hit from the side only an outer part breaks off. If the stalagmite is hit from above the shock wave so created delivers a clean horizontal break (Auf den Spuren der Neanderthaler, 2018). This is clearly visible evidence of active problem solving by early Neanderthals.
Thanks for adding that info!
And good luck with your dissertation!
Yeah, I'd love to read that dissertation. Sounds fascinating.
Learning to make some sort of calendar would be perhaps a strong motivation for the people of the time. There also could be an element of navigation involved. If you imagine a hunter going out some distance to find game, they would need to know a route back home and also may want a method to tell others where they are going and how long they expect the trip to take. This could be part of teaching the new generation of hunters.
@@kensmith5694 1000 ft deep in a cave. How would this work?
@@billmiller4972 I was referring to rings up at the surface not down in a cave. The one in the cave may be for a different purpose but the idea of a stone ring could be in the culture.
My own guess is that they were basically dance-floors in which they would dance, sing and chant, perhaps inducing alternate states of consciousness that they would interpret as having healing consequences for their Clan. Ever read 'The Singing Neanderthals ' by Steven Mithen? Amazing book! Highly recommend! Keep the awesome videos coming! X
Interesting. We need to research this more.
When I saw the image, it reminds me of a structure created for ceremony. In our culture here in Canada, Alberta specifically, we create circular structures where the individual would sit to fast, or participate in a vision quest. It makes sense. It enclosed from the elements and the potential,dangers. It’s for ceremony!
Oh your best Yet, which is saying a lot. At first I was saying 'Oh come on, not 175K years ago, no way. Then I watched and was just blown away, thank you so so much. Almost brings a tear to your eye when you stop and think about it, so long ago.
Utterly fascinating.
To think the widespread symbolic use of stone circles as sacred spaces by Homo Sapien's - across multiple continents - may actually have been borrowed from the pre-existing beliefs of Neanderthals, is, anthropologically speaking, a bit of a game changer imo.
I am not convinced they borrowed these ideas though because I don't think I ever seen anything even remotely similar. This is something that looks completely alien to me (not in the word that spacemen built it though). I think there are examples of Homo Sapiens borrowing ideas from Neanderthals, the worlds oldest string is made by neanderthals and so is some cave paintings but we have a pretty wide gap between these odd looking stone circles and the oldest we know humans created in places like Karahan Tepe and Boncuklu Tarla (like 160 000 years or so in difference).
It might well be that neanderthals created other more familiar looking stone circles outside caves and that Homo sapiens did so way earlier as well but if that is the case, we haven't found those yet so we lack any evidence to claim any kind of relationship.
But boy is it an interesting and weird construction. Why did they build it? Was it a religious project? Something to tell following generations they were there? Some kind of rite that meant everyone who became an adult had to go down there and place one or more stones? Or maybe it was some kind of art?
It is rather impossible to tell with the information we have. It clearly had some purpose, it is way too far down the cave to be some kind of game for kids and a bit too labor intensive too for that.
@@loke6664 It sounds like you are saying Karahan Tepe is 160,000 years old.
@@mrbaab5932 Lol, sorry. Not what I am saying at all, just that the timespan between the earliest Homo Spaiens stone circles we found and this one is 160 000 years so we have zero evidence they are related.
This cave were not accessible when those places were built so they couldn't have seen them either and even if they somehow could, they look nothing alike either.
@@loke6664 what we have is zero evidence that homo sapiens were responsible for the construction of ANY of the megaliths.
Yeah That's the hypothesis!! But nobody's got evidence that all the different ancient circles were used for the same practices, In most places archeologists haven't got a any form of evidence of what could have been going on there. So I'm gonna stick with protection for the elements to begin with and that is what's being imitated and maybe much later something else.
@Kayleigh / @HistorywithKayleigh, I HOPE YOU ARE GOING TO THE COSMIC SUMMIT 2023 !!!
That was dope that you made a play list, you're a good content creator. I'm sure your community appreciates that, I know I do.
This is a Big information.
Is there Somewhere a vidéo showing the circle, his orientation, etc...?
Kayleigh - I have been away but it’s good to know you’re still making history sexy. ❤️👍🏼👍🏼
Thanks, Kayleigh. Fascinating, as always.
And speaking of beautiful cricles . . .Nice presentation, Kayleigh. You're obviously increasing the number of history fans with your channel.
This is great stuff, very reasoned out and well presented! Looking forward to learning from more of your expertise in the next one.
Love your channel. Very informative and educational. I love learning about history. Thank you for knowing your stuff and making it easy to understand. Your very good at what you do!
Excellent video Kayleigh, and I can't wait to see how old the next set of foot prints will be. 10/10
It looks like a "hut", or a tent outline to me. Smart and fuel efficient.
They secured the sides with the broken stalagmites and the 2 smaller structures in the middle were supporting poles that were propping the tent up.
Would be so much easier to heat up just this section, rather than the whole portion of the cave.
Wow. We learn more all the time about our ancestors. I would never have called a species that survived for as long as Neanderthals stupid or dumb. They are obviously more complex than many thought. But time has erased a lot of the evidence unfortunately. So these types of finds are so very important to help correct the record .
Very cool presentation Kayleigh. Thank you ❤❤ from Texas
Thankyou Kayleigh ❤
Thanks Kayleigh for other outstanding video learned alot today 🥰😺
Thank you Josh!!
Stop fapping...euh , fibbing.
Lovely work, expansive implications and a fun delivery, thank you!
Love your technique and delivery very entertaining... Plus, I'm interested in most all of your topics... Thank you. 😊
As with any discovery. Adds more questions than answers.
The dating method could be flawed. If they relied on the thickness of the coating of minerals since the stalagmites were placed, it could be off if the area saw significantly higher precipitation in the past, which it likely did.
Excellent, thank you!
Thanks again
Kayleigh, i always enjoy your thoughtful videos and your delightful accent! Cheers!
thank you
Another awesome video. Thanks K.
😍❤👍 Thanks for this video.
A truly fascinating vlog! Well done Neanderthals. And thankyou Kayleigh for bring it to light for us!
Thank you for covering this subject! I was hoping you would. And thanks for the reference links.
The mind boggles at the possible uses these circular structures witnessed 😉👍
Definitely cool find for those 1st cavers...!!!
Hoping the next HUGE find surfaces soon, but these relatively new finds add so much to the equation👍👍
😎✌👍❤🖖
Your channel was recommended by the yt algorithm and I gotta say I love every single video you post, thank you!
Now you can Subscribe
@@alechorn1109 i did subscribed !
The better pronunciation would be "Neandertal", not "-thal". The reason is that the species is named after the Neander valley in Germany, where "Tal" means "valley". "Thal" is an older spelling of the same word, but was always pronounced as "Tal". Germany has simplified a few language details in recent years (such as getting rid of the Eszett or scharfes S - ß), and this change from Thal to Tal was intended to spell it as it should be pronounced. So there is good reason to recommend this pronunciation - it's not just me being pedantic. :o)
Thank you for your fascinating update on our ancestors. . 👍👍
Very interesting! Thank you for your hard work and excellent presentations.
Interesting development, looks like we have significantly underestimated what Neanderthals were capable of doing. Hopefully more finds will shed additional light on them.
remember .. SMASH LIKE BUTTON .. 🔬😁👍 .. Go Kayleigh !
How big were Neanderthal social groups? Was social group member size limited by higher levels of interactive aggression?
Awesome Informative video, once again. Bravo!
Love your intro. It has a strong 'early Tomb Raider' vibe to me. Thanks for reminding me!
Great job!
Thanks for these information!
Thank you. A map of the system might be useful, because you made it sound as if they were far from the surface. This presents even more questions!
You are truly a respite in the online panoply of archaeologists.
I know this isn't really your bailiwick, but would you ever be interested in doing a series on the Sauromatians, Scythians, and all their extended tribes? There's some amazing evidence coming forth that indicate they have/had a large genetic contribution to most "European" populaces.
Anyhow, keep on creating brilliant content.
Great work as always.
Gotta love the 21st Century. We are learning so much!
Great information for us amateurs out here.
:)
Another great video ,thanks.
Hi Iove watching yr videos 🎉
Thank you for another great presentation. Exciting time!
Thank you Kayleigh, very interesting.
Thank you Keyleigh! This is way cool!
Thanks!
Good video
Thank you for this. I am interested in these stone circles and standing stones. We visited the circles and other standing stones in Senegal and Gambia some years ago, but missed seeing the standing stones in Nigeria. Perhaps you could do a video about the African standing stones some day?
Amazing content as always. Thank you for the update.
Kayleigh … what is your sister up to these days? Her interview was so interesting! Have a great Summer!
She recently spoke at TedX in Stockholm, it's on their TH-cam channel 🤗
Fascinating - thank you for this video ! I noticed that the circles were laid horizontally, while later (astrological) circles tended to be built of uprights. Underground would be unlikely to be an astrological/astronomical structure, and I don't see the point in building a habitation hut underground (especially not that deep and far from light).
I'm a great believer in the idea that many of our oldest ideas go back a lot further than we think. Is it possible that this cave system had a spiritual significance and that the circles, perhaps with a perishable structure over them to make them like a sweat lodge, represented the womb and the cave entrance a birth canal. Initiates could be guided into the cave to spend time in the pitch darkness and (perhaps with the help of hallucinogenic mushrooms or similar) emerge a few days later suitably enlightened to take up the role of a shaman.
But this is just a wild guess of course - hopefully more research might pride better clues.
Fascinating! Farther and farther we are looking back.
Thank you :)
Some nice feng shui going on with those stone circles. A little paint, some throw pillows and that's one heck of a happening little cave. Reminds me of the limestone caves down in the Limburg area.
I suspect that the circles had a practical purpose. Deep in a cave is likely a safe place to be out of the weather and away from dangerous animals. If you left even a small fire burning in that space, after a while it would be quite warm. Brunt bones does suggest that they cooked dinner. All that really calls the idea into doubt is the question of whether there was enough air circulation to take the smoke away so as to not poison the people with gasses from the fire. If there was then continuous use would be practical for them.
Agreed, a big fire would not be feasible due to smoke,CO and need to get enough wood.
Maybe the walls were just a protection against the draft of cold air created by the warm air rising from the fire, so a small-ish fire would have sufficed, as heat radiating from it would be reflected from the stones too.
@@billmiller4972 Also, stone is not a very good thermal conductor so over time the surface of the stone walls would warm up even with a small fire. On the air circulating in and out of the cave would carry away much heat.
I always look forward to your content. Thank you. Stay curious.
The more we learn about the Neanderthals the more apparent it becomes they weren’t very different from us at all. It’s possible that culturally they were hardly more different from early modern humans than prehistoric proto-Celts were from Mycenaeans. Since Neanderthals and early modern humans interbred, the transition from one culture to the other clearly wasn’t insurmountable.
Interesting thank you
You are a lovely young woman with a great intelligence. The recent stone circles found throughout Africa, some in South America and even in North America is remarkable. I wonder what stories were shared around the fires?
Probably the same bullshit as today.
Many years ago I read the Jean M. Auel books. Since then it has been discovered that her way of describing the Neanderthals was not correct, they were much closer to us than previously thought, so much so that we even mixed with them ... Thank you for your excellent video ....
They sure as hell werent dumb they made tools outta rocks, bone and sticks to help fashion clothing outta animal skins.
And they were hunter gatherers, which means id say they ate better than most people of today. And they left their mark on humanity.
Sorry Keyleigh I got a habit of reading some introductions and right away commenting before listening. Keep up with the videos young lady
I dig it.👍😎
Ate better is a bit doubtful since we have found a lot of bones with signs of starvation, hunter gatherers tend to eat whatever they can find. Sometimes they ate a varied diet but other times they were pretty much stuck with eating a very limited diet as well, particularly in the winter.
That certainly doesn't make them stupid or dumber then we are, it takes a lot of skill and brain power to survive using only tools you made yourself and finding food or starving. It is what it is, and there are still some hunter gatherers left on the planet even if they get fewer and fewer.
Their math skills were likely not very good but it also takes a lot of brain power to turn a piece of flint into a useful tool without accidentally hurting yourself (which can lead to infection and death without antibiotics). Hunting large animals also takes more then a little skill and thinking and we know for a fact that they did that.
@@loke6664 what i meant was they didnt have freakin FDA and cancer causin preservatives everything was natural
Take todays fruit for instance in the 1960s when you ate any fruit or vegetable your body got a certain amount of vitamin
Today you got to eat atleast 3 or 4 of the same fruit or vegetable to acquire the same nutrition, and im sure the animals didnt have chronic wasting disease or any other or similar diseases, now lets get to the toxicity of life sustaining water, in 60s when I was kid I would out of pretty much any stream creek or river in Appalachia, I wont fu%& around like that any more
I believe ancient humans and humanoids haven't evolved as much in intelligence up to today. I like to believe tools have advanced instead of intelligence. My belief is that we are just as intelligent as we have been thousands maybe even millions of years ago, but though sharing knowledge amongst eachother (humanoids in general) we became what we are today. This is what fascinates me the most
I agree about homo species being intelligent and technology is the only thing that has advanced through time.
Yes, I also think so. I see no reason why it can't be this way. Except if one cannot get rid of dated convictions.
I absolutely agree. I think the only real difference between us and a homo sapiens of 50k yrs ago lies in the knowledge base we have to draw from.
Not really. Making plans for the future needs the ability of abstract thought. This was developed by the use of entheogens, mind shifters, consciousness changers. Present UK laws have outlawed their use.
"I like to believe tools have advanced instead of intelligence."
Indeed.
An 'educated man' isn't smarter, but simply more experienced toward specific tasks in a limited field of experience - and modern metrics like the 'Intelligence Quotient' reinforce that assumption when simply practicing the specific mathematical problem solving, 'makes people smarter' (see e.g. 'Effects of Practice on the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale-IV Across 3- and 6-Month Intervals' in 2012).
There appear to be _always_ 'outliers' in the 'bellcurve' of cognitive ability who are _physiologically handicapped_ in their ability to focus, resulting in a state of 'retarded' development, but ancient empires and their level of practized abstraction (the strategic planning of a 'Fiscal-Military State' that was defined only for the 17th century) - or the rapid modernization of overwhelmingly illiterate populations 19th century Mandschu China - with the longest tradition of institutionalized meritocracy before the Nomadic military occupation - could simply not be explained if 'colonial modernity' were the actual standard of intelligence...
Hi Kayleigh! I'm a newcomer and loved your video. A question raised is: what the purpose of such thing? We probably never know.
Greetings from Brasil (with an "s" as we brazilians name the country)..
Hahah de plotse "stalagmieten" geweldig! Keep up the good work!
Circles seems a bit of a stretch. Perhaps enclosures would be more apt. Earthworks certainly.
Fascinating. Is there any accessible data available on the site?
Well done Kayleigh. As always, your narrative is fresh and open to new ideas and not stuck in the 19th century fixed opinion on everything history... :-)
First time I've seen this incredible find, thanks!
Given its location and size, is it possible that the planning and work were done by a single artisan/artist? A Neanderthal Da Vinc whose work can only now be appreciated ?
Kayleigh, modern humans were here long before 175,000 years ago so it can not be said that modern humans could not have possibly had a hand in the stone circles in the cave. Now I am happy to accept that Neanderthals were the creators the stone displays deep within the cave in question but lets not misstate modern humanity's timeline and say that modern humans could not have possibly been in this area 175,000 years ago. Frankly, our currently accepted concept of just when "modern humans" made their way into the European continent is not so iron clad as to support that kind of statement. While I totally agree that the Neanderthal hypothesis in the most likely explanation in this particular case, I would nonetheless caution you against declaring that to be an unassailable fact. After all, you may one day need a little wiggle room should new details come to light down the long and dimly lit road of history.
Yes I agree totally!! But you've forgotten one fundamental thing and that's Having Ones Own Opinion And No Being Afraid Of Saying Such Things. lol
THANKS FOR THE VIDEO! And showing that Neanderthals were not just big brutes! After all, they did have bigger brains! I hope you are having a great weekend!
Elephants and whales have much bigger brains than us. Generally, brain size is less important to intelligence.
Just a guess but maybe the stalactites were collected into a ring as a sort of foundation. The idea would be to support branches to get their sleeping gear/animal skins off the floor of the damp cave. The fires may have been a collecting place for embers or heated stones brought form bigger fires outside so the cave didn't fill with CO2. Maybe the smoldering embers kept dangerous animals from entering the cave as well. Once you were resigned to living in a cave it would only take a few miserable nights to motivate you to get off the damp ground.
This is really very interesting - i hope that more is found and possibly we can see some things that we took from the Neanderthals
Stalagmites form on a cave floor and they "might" reach the cave ceiling. Stalactites are stuck "tight" to the ceiling and may reach the cave floor. Kayleigh got it right (of course), I wanted to give a handy memory aid to those who aren't familiar with cave geology.
Hardly a useful memory aid. You could equally well say Stalagmites form on a cave ceiling and they "might" reach the floor, while. Stalactites are stuck "tight" to the cave floor and may reach the ceiling! Actually neither is true, as ultimately stalactite meets a stalagmite.
It's much simpler to notice the g in stalagmite which reminds us of the ground, while the c in stalactite could refer to the ceiling or the t to the top.
@@gramail2009 Well it worked for me. I learned that as a grade schooler 45+ years ago and it's still with me. Also, if stalactites weren't tight to the ceiling, they'd fall down.
Neanderthals have historically been depicted as dumb and brutish rather than intelligent, creative and social as the second description shows that there is nothing special about us - which some religious people would find hard to reconcile with.
The first time I read about these structures I couldn't help but think of Lovecrafts "Rats in the Walls" - anyone else reminded of this?
Very interesting, and food for a question that has long been on my mind. How can we actually be sure that Neanderthals weren't as intelligent, or even more intelligent than us (Homo Sapiens Sapiens)? They could have disappeared for a number of other reasons, such as being outcompeted by sheer force of numbers.
hi, Kayleigh! i had heard of this discovery but, at that time they weren't sure who had made these structures. pretty cool that Neanderthals were the creators. another nail in the coffin of the "brutish apeman" theory of our close cousin. they had art, music, language and created glue, rope and clothing. now, we see, they were capable of abstract thought and expression of said thoughts. Neanderthals were an extremely successful lineage, evidenced by the long time-span of their existence. Homo Sapiens have only been around for a fraction of that time. yes, our lineage has become more technologicaly advanced in that time but, that is a function of evolution; our descendants may consider us to be primitive, in 50,000 yrs.
anyhoo, another great episode in your human evolution series, Klee! thank you! also, enjoy your new found freedom on the road! but, be vewy, vewy caewful! please?!?!
Well put, Floyd.
One point. Our apparent rapid rise to technology may not be evolutionary per se, but more a function of opportunity and luck.
We have enjoyed almost 20,000 years with out getting smacked down by some global catastrophe. As we are learning this may actually be a rare situation in the overall history of man.
Fox out
Neanderthals were well adapted to their environment. We can only aspire to have their longevity.
@@vulpesvulpes5177 yep. i was thinking of the evolution of our brains but, i think you nipped it. lotsa luck involved, not getting clobbered.
@@barrywalser2384 well, hey, Barry! missed ya in the chat! truly interesting characters, Neanderthals. i think i've known a few, maybe even related to some.
@@vulpesvulpes5177-- Technology wasn't rapid at all until around 12,000 years ago when humans started farming and building permanent settlements. Prior to that technology remained primarily stagnant for hundreds of thousands of years.
Thanks. Is there any evidence of structures of similar complexity associated with any other Neanderthal sites, or even just structures created around the same time period?
Wow that was great , good to know!!
Great, really interesting. I am undecided if these structures were ritualistic or for a sense of coziness that most species look for when they want to enjoy a good sleep.
Would you create a tour to the cave and museum areas of France ? Like
That Egypt trip ?
I was only a cohost on that tour, I'm not the one to set things like that up 🙂
Such a beautiful smart girl that talks about things I love hearing about all my life. Wish I was younger. 54 seems so old these day....Even if I think Im 25 still lol.
Well, maybe we can do some “Process of Elimination”. Being so far underground, I doubt that it was used as an Astronomical Calendar as so many Henges around the world were. Maybe it was used as a “Common” for Group Activities, while “Private”spaces were random nooks and crannies used for Sleeping, storage, etc. Food for Thought.
Ik zou best wel eens terug gefilts willen worden naar die tijd maar helaas bestaat er geen teletijdmachine zo als die van dokter barabas uit suske en wiske . Ik ben er zo nieuwsgierig naar om met je eigen ogen hoe deze mensen leefden. Groetjes uit Vlaardingen 🇳🇱🇳🇱🤩
"Pre-history with Kayleigh" is more accurate. You can't rule out natural causes to the pattern - could be cave flooding, seismic activity - flooding can create some debris patterns that look thought out. Nevertheless - your program always offer interesting speculation - thanks.
Neanderthals didn't really disappear. We are in fact part Neanderthal. I think they were highly intelligent, much more adaptable and resourceful than they are credited for.
I mentioned this in many of my neanderthal videos 🙂
The more we learn , the more we must rethink history . Did you obtain your driving license yet ?
An old, highly visual, memory aid: The mites go up and the tites go down. You have to bring along a "stalag" for the mites (apparently some sort of foundation), or a "stalac" for the tites (probably a hanger of sorts) to complete the word after you figure out which one you are referring to. Does Amazon carry those?
I was taught, waaaay back when I was about 7 or 8, that stalactites hold tight to the ceiling, and stalagmites just might reach the top. 😊