My mom has an AK player that can handle DSD256 so we bought one of the octave records and it’s amazing. I actually have the gaincell dac that plays only 128 so I called them and they sent me the smaller files and I hooked the USB out from the AK player into the DAC and WOW! The sound quality is awesome. The difference from 64 to 128 was noticeable so in the future getting a DAC that will play the 256/512 would be awesome.
@@paulkerr9128 Thanks for your comment. Some time ago I used the Onkyo HF player but wasn't too happy with it so I forgot about it. Nowdays I use the USB Audio Player Pro which I just realized is capable of playing DSD files... and it's free! Not sure how it works for other DACs or integrateds, but for the PS Audio Sprout 100 and the other external DAC I have, I can only send DSD signal to them through USB, so it works well.
I use Foobar too through an Audiolab M Dac plus which handles DSD 256 and then on through Naim amplification to Focal Kanta speakers. It's frickin' fantastic - I'm not kidding!
I never remeber it and use it all the time :P Its prob cause its to close to FUBAR... :P something an eng would say if receives back an amp that someone shorted out by allowing the speaker cables to fall into a powerboard :)
Sony music center for PC can play DSD files and is free, also it will act as server to Sony Blu-ray player that is capable of play DSD files. For a Mac pine player will also and is free.
I wish I could’ve came there last weekend and visited with you guys. Had a chance to listen to those amazing speakers that you have. Unfortunately my family came first and had to help them learn how to ski at Breckenridge on Monday last week I was going to come by, but never got the time maybe one day I’ll come there
I use DSD player like Audirvana. MACs are simpler as it does not need any drivers for the DAC. DSD files in thumb drive also works great on my Marantz SACD 30n using HEOS without any special software beyond what came from Marantz. Limited to DSD 256 I believe.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but...I don't want my thumb drive in the signal path unless it has to be for some reason. Copy those files to drive C before any serious listening. Play from drive C not the thumb drive.
@@lexicon612 I store files into the hard drive of the computer and use Audirvana vis USB to the DAC. My suggestion of putting the DSD files into thumb drive is only to use the USB input of the Marantz SACD30n which HEOS (the app from Marantz) recognizes. I do both but thumb drive is so much easier and the computer is not tethered to the DAC. Lots of good options.
@@ptg01 Ah I see. You system sounds amazing. I run a PS audio stack powered by an Intel Nuk with windows 10 stripped down to basic function, no browser etc. EPOS Epic 2's but in the market looking to upgrade my speakers. What do you suggest.
@@lexicon612 Speakers are so critical and yet so personal, it’s a tough one to answer. Since you have some PSAudio gear I would start with their FR20’s or even the FR10’s when released.
@@lexicon612 LOL.. I use to strip down Windows years ago. 👍 Get all the crap out of the OS and the Registry. The Windows OS like Apple OS now is bloate. I have not used Windows since w-Vista first came out. I wiped that piece of crap off a brand new computer and installed Linux in two days of using Vista.
@Willy Leavitt Foobar now has SACD built in just go to File > Prefrences > Tools and you will see SACD when click on this on the right hand side you will see Type in the dropdown box there is DSD+PCM this is DSD over PCM that Paul was talking about and some USB speakers / Dacs support then there is DSD which is Native DSD if you have a DAC that supports direct DSD then select this and what ever format the DSD file is eg 1bit. 64 128 256 etc it will send it direc to the dac. If the dac doesnt support it you will get an error. If your Dac has drivers eg XMOS this will allow you to enable ASIO under Playback > Output which is needed for DSD (direct) Support
Hi Paul, after watching this video I downloaded The Art of Hifi: Bass in 176.4/24-bit FLAC and it sounds fantastic! I play it on a FLAC Player through my stereo components and this was my first Octave Records purchase and I think more will follow! Cheers
Paul, I get white noise when trying to play dsd files. I use volumio running on a pi connected to a project pre box s2 dac which is capable of playing dsd. Any ideas?
@@JingoLoBa57 I've heard great DSD but it's not in the genre I enjoy. Like watching 8K nature videos, great picture quality but it's not entertainment content.
I’ve tried this on my iPhone 15 Pro Max with a USB dac, an iFi Audio Go Link. I use a player called Scylla and in it, I can set DoP. The dac is supposed to show cyan or blue light for DSD but it shows yellow as for PCM. I am not sure if it is that way it is supposed to be. I was thinking that it should show blue light when it recognizes that it is DSD but then I thought that maybe it shows yellow light because it is DSD over PCM and that it is the PCM container that determines the color of the light on the dac. It sounds fine though and yellow is higher bitrate but as it is not blue, I can’t be certain weither it is DSD within a PCM container or DSD converted to PCM. If I turn off DoP in the app and set a bitrate, I get green light for lower bitrate PCM. It says in the app that if DoP is activated, the set bitrate is overlooked which is quite assuring in that even if I have low bitrate set AND DoP activated, the dac shows yellow light instead of green light.
I have Roon Core installed on my MAC which is only connected via Ethernet to my Hegel H390 amp. Can I send DSD from my computer to amp with this setup?? I would really like to try DSD and se how it sounds.
I know this is already 1 year old, but wanted to comment anyway. I am playing DSF, DSD, SACD and UHQR flac audio files on a raspberry pi with HiFiBerry DAC2 Pro and Volumio without any problems
Or just skip all the added work and software costs and installs and just get the high-resolution PCM file that your equipment can play natively. After all the DSD file is just a copy of a high-resolution PCM file anyway right Paul?
The question was not directed to me, but I'd like to say that no, it isn't. High resolution PCM is fine, and so is DSD, but they are different things. Different audio encoding technologies.
So what if my DAC doesn’t support DSD? Can I use Roon/Audirvana/etc. to convert DSD to PCM for listening? If so, this worse than just buying straight PCM?
Any software that can play the file extensions used by DSD (.dsf, .dff etc.) will either play DSD natively or convert it to PCM (DoP) to play the file. You will hear differences, trust me. Search and try free DSDs before you commit to buying if you are skeptical (which you should be xD), but give it a try. Make sure you try good either DSD native recordings or conversions from Vinyl. Edit: Sorry, DoP (DSD-over-PCM) does not actually convert the DSD (PDM) bitstream to PCM format but only puts it into a PCM container. The DSD bitstream remains unchanged however, at least that is my understanding and has been Paul's as well. The net result, at any rate, is that the sound is phenomenal :D.
Roon doesn't know anything about making it easy to download DSD files. It's a living nightmare for me and my system. Several people in the know have confirmed that it's not easy to download DSD using Roon.
Or run a simple version of Linux. The bit perfect playback software will be free. It is so efficient that any old Laptop that you retired years ago will be more than capable of running your system. Ubuntu Lite is a fine example. You download it free and put it onto a usb stick. You can boot up your computer from the usb stick and see if you like it. It has windows interface similar to Microsoft so it is completely intuitive. If you like it you can put it on the hard drive.
Linux also has “Wine” a Windows emulator ✅ I never used Wine. It had some limitations. Microsoft now uses web online software you can run on Linux. The Windows Edge browser is now re -coded using Chromium OS. It was changed awhile ago.
Any digital production of music outputs PCM and I’ll prefer the native PCM output (incl. DXD) rather than a lossy transcoded DSD version, if I really have to deal with downloads. Streaming lossless up to 192kHz 24 bits is standard already and I’m not all convinced our hearing can differentiate anything better. Certainly 24 bits are already overkill for what is audible. DSD-64 is equivalent to 96kHz 20 bits PCM. Does more than 192kHz even make sense? It’s like 8K vs 16K TVs. Human perception is limited
Not all "digital productions" output PCM. A few (I know just a few) studios are using DSD to natively capture and mix the music in DSD. Yes, mixing is not easy for today's computer processors, but they will continue to get better and one day DSD can be mixed reasonably well. That might not happen for another 10 years or so though. Then you have companies taking ANALOG tapes and directly capturing them with DSD to get the "best" out of them possible and for archiving purposes. Archiving was the original purpose for DSD, but now we see that some are pushing for it to be a consumer medium. Maybe someday, but studios are heavily invested in PCM and all the schools are teaching engineers how to deal with it, so until it gets cheaper and engineers come along who understand it, it will always be a niche product.
@@rosswarren436 DSD of course is an excellent recording format. How do you mix DSD? It's a 1 bit sigma delta based format. You can calculate the PCM equivalent level and add multiple channels but what you do is still PCM mixing and the output is PCM. I don't even say that is bad provided your sample rate is adequate to not lose resolution in the time domain. DXD got its name to obfuscate the fact that it is just plain PCM (352.8kHz). The reason SACDs were using DSD on the disc was that it was more data efficient relative to time domain resolution and also easily compatible with 1 bit sigma delta DACs. Since then the world has changed and we heavily rely on PCM in the consumer distribution of audio due to a range of reasons. And while DSD helped SACD sound better than CD, the truth is that the DSD tracks were transcoded from DXD with lossy conversion and the native DXD therefore is superior. Nowadays we have much higher sample rate PCM allowing us the benefits of DSD without the limits of DSD. Studios simply run their PCM at higher sample rates to gain better audio quality as PCM is easily scalable to well beyond human perception. I believe we should keep recording in DSD tracks and utilize the great improvements in PCM resolution on the consumer side. Streaming in native DXD is definitely possible with a modern internet connection and my current Amazon Music HD subscription already does 192kHz 24 bits lossless well. A track like Africa by Toto plays as well in 192kHz 24 bits on Amazon as it does on my SACD version. I'm not sure I can convince myself the DSD version is any better than the streamed version, while I know it's better than the CD version.
@@ThinkingBetter yes, as more people get access to faster Internet hopefully better formats can be streamed (if they are made available to the streaming services). With labels being the way they are I doubt we'll see very many older albums be released in DSD....they'll feel that either CD quality or better in PCM is "good enough" for the masses. We'll see how it all goes in the next few years. I know the studios are heavily invested in PCM, just as they were in analog gear, and finding engineers that know much about how to work with the necessary equipment to do DSD is a hard task. Hopefully that will improve over time. The thing is most people simply don't have systems (or ears) resolving enough to probably notice a difference between PCM 24-bit/192KHz and DSD256. Heck I bet 6 out of 10 people randomly picked can't tell 320 Kbps mp3 from CD quality even on a good system, let alone higher resolutions. In some ways is it just a technicality but knowing that you are being served the best that can be done "state of the art" and for future preservation will be a good thing.
But all Linux operating systems run native DSD and can easily be booted from a USB drive dongle, and if you really want to quiet in the machine down run a dedicated Linux audio file operating system like AP-Linux or snake oil Linux and work flawlessly and a lot better than windows better and smoother streaming speeds
Linux Operating System is a great OS 👍✅ All open source ✅ You ca run in Duel boot or Virtual Machine.✅ There is no such thing as end of life on Linux OS. ✅ System 76 computers run Linux right out of the box.✅ Linux PopOS is pre installed.✅ You don’t have Microsoft or Apple telling you what you can and cannot do. Linux is yours to do whatever you want. ✅
Yes, Linux is beautiful, thank you very much, except 99.9% of the world does not use it. Instead, there should be user friendly apps for the most popular platforms that are capable of playing native DSD. Yeah, I get it 99.9% of the music market do not use DSD... BUT... companies supporting and promoting the format could provide simple but easy free software to run their product. In my search for that solution I realized how frustrating it is for DSD enthusiasts to find ways to play the format, and many give up because of that.
You are not "fooling" your computer. Computers are a combination of hardware and software. The hardware, without the software, is a paperweight. Every piece of hardware has software embedded into it, in order for that hardware to serve its function. Your keyboard, for example, would not function, without the software that lets it communicate with a controller that is built-in to your motherboard (typically your USB controller). That controller also has software, and on and on. DSD is not a special case that "fools" your computer (or where you have to fool your computer), any more than a a "pdf" file fools your computer. Once you have an Adobe Acrobat program or any number of other pdf reader/writer type programs installed, then your computer will process "pdf" files. Until your computer is given instructions on how to handle a "pdf" file, your computer will not know how to handle a "pdf" file. The same goes for all files, including DSD files. DSD files are not a special, magical exception to the world of computers, where trickery, mirrors, and slight-of-hand gimmickry takes place. Install a program that is designed to use DSD files, and you can use DSD files, the same as any other file type and its associated programs. I use "keepass" as my password manager. It saves its encrypted vault of passwords in a "kdbx" file. If I were to copy that "kdbx" file to a computer that does not have "keepass" installed, then that computer would not know what to do with that "kdbx" file -- the same as it would not know what to do with a DSD file. When I install "keepass", I am not fooling the computer into using the "kdbx" file. The same goes for DSD files. Install a program that is designed to use DSD files, and that is it. DSD files are not a special case where sorcery takes place.
The issue here is that audio is more than about interpreting file types in any modern computer. Under every operating system of today you'll find an audio architecture where the audio flows from some source to some output. A source could be some streaming service, for example. The operating system takes care of any attenuation, sample rate conversion, mixing etc. to manage the audio from multiple sources and optionally several outputs. Operating systems always rely on PCM in this internal audio architecture as doing math to the audio streams is vital for the functionality. DSD is not compatible through the OS audio architecture and if you play it from a source, it will get transcoded to PCM. Same goes for other formats e.g. MP3 (I still remember that...) playback will also result in PCM. Usually, an operating system, works with a certain PCM clock such as 48kHz and that streamlines all playback to this clock frequency. Nowadays you can run your OS in exclusivity mode where the audio stream can be allowed to go lossless through the OS to the DAC incl. at high sample rates. I use that on my Macs to allow lossless playback of up to 192kHz 24 bits from Amazon Music HD. Playing DSD as files of course is possible as you describe, but it's quite a yesterday approach to playing music. There is a diminishing return of investment as you go above CD specs. 192kHz 24 bits seems already at a level beyond human perception. Most certainly 24 bits is already 4 bits more than you can actually use (due to thermal noise) and 192kHz allows much superior time precision than 44.1kHz. Does DSD-256 sound better than 192kHz 24 bits PCM? I don't think so and unless someone can prove it in a blind test, don't buy it.
You are wasting your time with these people. Having a financial interest in getting people to buy expensive audio hardware. It’s all a con. DSD is just another example of a Gimmick making people think it’s something out of this World technology..LOL DSD is a file format that will play on a phone. No Alien 👽technology involved..LOL.
Well thats incorrect when the entire windows audio stack is built around PCM, if you know anything about DSD youll know its fundamentally and completly different hence all the faffing around to output a Dsd stream for the dac to recognise.
@@MrDingaling007 "Well thats incorrect..." That is incorrect. "...the entire windows audio stack is built around PCM..." Hence any program that has the coding to perform the operations for a DAC to process the data stream will play your music files. It is not magic. It is software. Everything that runs on a computer is software driven. "...if you know anything about DSD youll know its fundamentally and completly different..." Do you think that people that play mp3 files know anything about audio stacks? Or anything, whatsoever, about what is involved to get an mp3 (or any music file) to play? There is no need for the customer to know. They click on the file, and it plays. The computer is not scratching its head, wondering how that happens. You can run Windows on a Mac, or run a Mac on Linix, or run Linux on Windows, etc. Was Windows designed to run IOS? Was Linux designed to run Windows? There is no magic involved; just software what is written to make it work. Our host is told by his staff that it is some sort of magic. Our host knows little about computers. So he is impressed with that magic, and he conveys as much by stating how his team fools the computer. If our host found out that NTFS has alternate data streams, he might believe that that is a secret door into a magical land of data storage.
I know. Lets ask Greta Thundberg what her opinion is on playing DSD files. Paul trusts her on climate science so how hard could this be for a high school drop out.
My mom has an AK player that can handle DSD256 so we bought one of the octave records and it’s amazing. I actually have the gaincell dac that plays only 128 so I called them and they sent me the smaller files and I hooked the USB out from the AK player into the DAC and WOW! The sound quality is awesome. The difference from 64 to 128 was noticeable so in the future getting a DAC that will play the 256/512 would be awesome.
I use JRiver through a Cambrige DacMagic 200M that outputs pure DSD with no processing (unless I want to). Sounds great.
Smartphones and tablets can also play DSD through a DAC. There are free applications on Android and iOS for this.
Such as? It would be a great service to this community to find an app capable of playing NATIVE DSD in an Android device.
@@carlosalvarez7445 Onkyo HF player. Its about 10$ though the App store. Plays native dsd and also does DoP. It is great for the money.
All you really need on any decive is a DSD codec and a player that supoorts the use of third party codecs or has native DSD codec.
@@paulkerr9128 Thanks for your comment. Some time ago I used the Onkyo HF player but wasn't too happy with it so I forgot about it. Nowdays I use the USB Audio Player Pro which I just realized is capable of playing DSD files... and it's free! Not sure how it works for other DACs or integrateds, but for the PS Audio Sprout 100 and the other external DAC I have, I can only send DSD signal to them through USB, so it works well.
@@carlosalvarez7445 good to know, thanks.
I use Foobar too through an Audiolab M Dac plus which handles DSD 256 and then on through Naim amplification to Focal Kanta speakers. It's frickin' fantastic - I'm not kidding!
I’ve a few DSD albums in Roon, they play natively on my Hegel H390 from my Synology NAS - nice to have but not much choice in the music I like.
Why does Paul never remember foobar2000? 😀
Because I never use it and I should. Sorry about that.
Senior Moment?
I find it a bit quirky under Windows (my work machine), but it's my favourite despite that :-)
Foobar is the best as the customization is unrivaled.
I never remeber it and use it all the time :P Its prob cause its to close to FUBAR... :P something an eng would say if receives back an amp that someone shorted out by allowing the speaker cables to fall into a powerboard :)
Sony music center for PC can play DSD files and is free, also it will act as server to Sony Blu-ray player that is capable of play DSD files. For a Mac pine player will also and is free.
I wish I could’ve came there last weekend and visited with you guys. Had a chance to listen to those amazing speakers that you have. Unfortunately my family came first and had to help them learn how to ski at Breckenridge on Monday last week I was going to come by, but never got the time maybe one day I’ll come there
I use Foober2000 and the plugins needed for it to play DSD. My Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M can handle 512x DSD, and it sounds amazing.
wish someone could help me!
I use DSD player like Audirvana. MACs are simpler as it does not need any drivers for the DAC. DSD files in thumb drive also works great on my Marantz SACD 30n using HEOS without any special software beyond what came from Marantz. Limited to DSD 256 I believe.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong but...I don't want my thumb drive in the signal path unless it has to be for some reason. Copy those files to drive C before any serious listening. Play from drive C not the thumb drive.
@@lexicon612 I store files into the hard drive of the computer and use Audirvana vis USB to the DAC. My suggestion of putting the DSD files into thumb drive is only to use the USB input of the Marantz SACD30n which HEOS (the app from Marantz) recognizes. I do both but thumb drive is so much easier and the computer is not tethered to the DAC. Lots of good options.
@@ptg01 Ah I see. You system sounds amazing. I run a PS audio stack powered by an Intel Nuk with windows 10 stripped down to basic function, no browser etc. EPOS Epic 2's but in the market looking to upgrade my speakers. What do you suggest.
@@lexicon612 Speakers are so critical and yet so personal, it’s a tough one to answer. Since you have some PSAudio gear I would start with their FR20’s or even the FR10’s when released.
@@lexicon612
LOL.. I use to strip down Windows years ago. 👍 Get all the crap out of the OS and the Registry.
The Windows OS like Apple OS now is bloate. I have not used Windows since w-Vista first came out. I wiped that piece of crap off a brand new computer and installed Linux in two days of using Vista.
@Willy Leavitt Foobar now has SACD built in just go to File > Prefrences > Tools and you will see SACD when click on this on the right hand side you will see Type in the dropdown box there is DSD+PCM this is DSD over PCM that Paul was talking about and some USB speakers / Dacs support then there is DSD which is Native DSD if you have a DAC that supports direct DSD then select this and what ever format the DSD file is eg 1bit. 64 128 256 etc it will send it direc to the dac. If the dac doesnt support it you will get an error. If your Dac has drivers eg XMOS this will allow you to enable ASIO under Playback > Output which is needed for DSD (direct) Support
Hi Paul, after watching this video I downloaded The Art of Hifi: Bass in 176.4/24-bit FLAC and it sounds fantastic! I play it on a FLAC Player through my stereo components and this was my first Octave Records purchase and I think more will follow! Cheers
Paul, I get white noise when trying to play dsd files. I use volumio running on a pi connected to a project pre box s2 dac which is capable of playing dsd. Any ideas?
I'm using Colibri on my Mac to play DSD, it's awesome. It sends .dsf files via DoP to my DAC. Works perfect.
DSD is DOA IMHO. I used to love DSD and I owned the $5000 Sony SCD-1 SACD player.
Until you hear a well recorded DSD track or album…
@@JingoLoBa57 I've heard great DSD but it's not in the genre I enjoy. Like watching 8K nature videos, great picture quality but it's not entertainment content.
I’ve tried this on my iPhone 15 Pro Max with a USB dac, an iFi Audio Go Link.
I use a player called Scylla and in it, I can set DoP.
The dac is supposed to show cyan or blue light for DSD but it shows yellow as for PCM.
I am not sure if it is that way it is supposed to be. I was thinking that it should show blue light when it recognizes that it is DSD but then I thought that maybe it shows yellow light because it is DSD over PCM and that it is the PCM container that determines the color of the light on the dac.
It sounds fine though and yellow is higher bitrate but as it is not blue, I can’t be certain weither it is DSD within a PCM container or DSD converted to PCM.
If I turn off DoP in the app and set a bitrate, I get green light for lower bitrate PCM. It says in the app that if DoP is activated, the set bitrate is overlooked which is quite assuring in that even if I have low bitrate set AND DoP activated, the dac shows yellow light instead of green light.
I have Roon Core installed on my MAC which is only connected via Ethernet to my Hegel H390 amp. Can I send DSD from my computer to amp with this setup??
I would really like to try DSD and se how it sounds.
I know this is already 1 year old, but wanted to comment anyway. I am playing DSF, DSD, SACD and UHQR flac
audio files on a raspberry pi with HiFiBerry DAC2 Pro and Volumio without any problems
Would it be possible for Microsoft/Apple/Linus to code in native support for DSD, I wonder?
Yes
My Eweat DMP50 audio player will play DSD512 files.
You basicly just need a DSD codec (aka plug-in) for any player that supports third party codecs
Or just skip all the added work and software costs and installs and just get the high-resolution PCM file that your equipment can play natively.
After all the DSD file is just a copy of a high-resolution PCM file anyway right Paul?
The question was not directed to me, but I'd like to say that no, it isn't. High resolution PCM is fine, and so is DSD, but they are different things. Different audio encoding technologies.
So what if my DAC doesn’t support DSD? Can I use Roon/Audirvana/etc. to convert DSD to PCM for listening? If so, this worse than just buying straight PCM?
Not worse necessarily, but no better, so you might as well buy native PCM.
@@rosswarren436 if no worse then why not just buy the DSD and then I’ll have it for a future DAC that might support it? Or am I missing something?
Any software that can play the file extensions used by DSD (.dsf, .dff etc.) will either play DSD natively or convert it to PCM (DoP) to play the file.
You will hear differences, trust me. Search and try free DSDs before you commit to buying if you are skeptical (which you should be xD), but give it a try. Make sure you try good either DSD native recordings or conversions from Vinyl.
Edit: Sorry, DoP (DSD-over-PCM) does not actually convert the DSD (PDM) bitstream to PCM format but only puts it into a PCM container. The DSD bitstream remains unchanged however, at least that is my understanding and has been Paul's as well.
The net result, at any rate, is that the sound is phenomenal :D.
@@chrisladouceur4093 I'd recommend the DSD for exactly that reason. Down the road, you'll have access to the extended info in the DSD.
Ill give it a like because of Paul but I’m fed up with listening to 192 hz dsd etc
Roon doesn't know anything about making it easy to download DSD files. It's a living nightmare for me and my system. Several people in the know have confirmed that it's not easy to download DSD using Roon.
Doesn't Audacity also play DSD?
Or run a simple version of Linux. The bit perfect playback software will be free. It is so efficient that any old Laptop that you retired years ago will be more than capable of running your system.
Ubuntu Lite is a fine example. You download it free and put it onto a usb stick. You can boot up your computer from the usb stick and see if you like it. It has windows interface similar to Microsoft so it is completely intuitive. If you like it you can put it on the hard drive.
Linux also has “Wine” a Windows emulator ✅ I never used Wine. It had some limitations. Microsoft now uses web online software you can run on Linux. The Windows Edge browser is now re -coded using Chromium OS. It was changed awhile ago.
Any digital production of music outputs PCM and I’ll prefer the native PCM output (incl. DXD) rather than a lossy transcoded DSD version, if I really have to deal with downloads. Streaming lossless up to 192kHz 24 bits is standard already and I’m not all convinced our hearing can differentiate anything better. Certainly 24 bits are already overkill for what is audible. DSD-64 is equivalent to 96kHz 20 bits PCM. Does more than 192kHz even make sense? It’s like 8K vs 16K TVs. Human perception is limited
Not all "digital productions" output PCM. A few (I know just a few) studios are using DSD to natively capture and mix the music in DSD. Yes, mixing is not easy for today's computer processors, but they will continue to get better and one day DSD can be mixed reasonably well. That might not happen for another 10 years or so though.
Then you have companies taking ANALOG tapes and directly capturing them with DSD to get the "best" out of them possible and for archiving purposes. Archiving was the original purpose for DSD, but now we see that some are pushing for it to be a consumer medium. Maybe someday, but studios are heavily invested in PCM and all the schools are teaching engineers how to deal with it, so until it gets cheaper and engineers come along who understand it, it will always be a niche product.
@@rosswarren436 DSD of course is an excellent recording format. How do you mix DSD? It's a 1 bit sigma delta based format. You can calculate the PCM equivalent level and add multiple channels but what you do is still PCM mixing and the output is PCM. I don't even say that is bad provided your sample rate is adequate to not lose resolution in the time domain. DXD got its name to obfuscate the fact that it is just plain PCM (352.8kHz). The reason SACDs were using DSD on the disc was that it was more data efficient relative to time domain resolution and also easily compatible with 1 bit sigma delta DACs. Since then the world has changed and we heavily rely on PCM in the consumer distribution of audio due to a range of reasons. And while DSD helped SACD sound better than CD, the truth is that the DSD tracks were transcoded from DXD with lossy conversion and the native DXD therefore is superior. Nowadays we have much higher sample rate PCM allowing us the benefits of DSD without the limits of DSD. Studios simply run their PCM at higher sample rates to gain better audio quality as PCM is easily scalable to well beyond human perception. I believe we should keep recording in DSD tracks and utilize the great improvements in PCM resolution on the consumer side. Streaming in native DXD is definitely possible with a modern internet connection and my current Amazon Music HD subscription already does 192kHz 24 bits lossless well. A track like Africa by Toto plays as well in 192kHz 24 bits on Amazon as it does on my SACD version. I'm not sure I can convince myself the DSD version is any better than the streamed version, while I know it's better than the CD version.
@@ThinkingBetter yes, as more people get access to faster Internet hopefully better formats can be streamed (if they are made available to the streaming services). With labels being the way they are I doubt we'll see very many older albums be released in DSD....they'll feel that either CD quality or better in PCM is "good enough" for the masses.
We'll see how it all goes in the next few years. I know the studios are heavily invested in PCM, just as they were in analog gear, and finding engineers that know much about how to work with the necessary equipment to do DSD is a hard task.
Hopefully that will improve over time. The thing is most people simply don't have systems (or ears) resolving enough to probably notice a difference between PCM 24-bit/192KHz and DSD256. Heck I bet 6 out of 10 people randomly picked can't tell 320 Kbps mp3 from CD quality even on a good system, let alone higher resolutions.
In some ways is it just a technicality but knowing that you are being served the best that can be done "state of the art" and for future preservation will be a good thing.
@@rosswarren436 DSD just doesn’t make sense for music distribution anymore, considering PCM is upscalable to far beyond human perception.
@@ThinkingBetter maybe, but some purists (Paul among them) argue that DSD is "more analog" so why not use it if you can.
@1:53 Actually , your 'DAC' say's 'Ah Ha , .. I Know what that is !!!
But all Linux operating systems run native DSD and can easily be booted from a USB drive dongle, and if you really want to quiet in the machine down run a dedicated Linux audio file operating system like AP-Linux or snake oil Linux and work flawlessly and a lot better than windows better and smoother streaming speeds
Linux Operating System is a great OS 👍✅ All open source ✅ You ca run in Duel boot or Virtual Machine.✅ There is no such thing as end of life on Linux OS. ✅
System 76 computers run Linux right out of the box.✅
Linux PopOS is pre installed.✅
You don’t have Microsoft or Apple telling you what you can and cannot do. Linux is yours to do whatever you want. ✅
@@davidfromamerica1871
SPAM
Yes, Linux is beautiful, thank you very much, except 99.9% of the world does not use it. Instead, there should be user friendly apps for the most popular platforms that are capable of playing native DSD. Yeah, I get it 99.9% of the music market do not use DSD... BUT... companies supporting and promoting the format could provide simple but easy free software to run their product. In my search for that solution I realized how frustrating it is for DSD enthusiasts to find ways to play the format, and many give up because of that.
@@Bassotronics Linux spam well that's different.
You are not "fooling" your computer.
Computers are a combination of hardware and software.
The hardware, without the software, is a paperweight.
Every piece of hardware has software embedded into it, in order for that hardware to serve its function.
Your keyboard, for example, would not function, without the software that lets it communicate with a controller that is built-in to your motherboard (typically your USB controller). That controller also has software, and on and on.
DSD is not a special case that "fools" your computer (or where you have to fool your computer), any more than a a "pdf" file fools your computer. Once you have an Adobe Acrobat program or any number of other pdf reader/writer type programs installed, then your computer will process "pdf" files.
Until your computer is given instructions on how to handle a "pdf" file, your computer will not know how to handle a "pdf" file. The same goes for all files, including DSD files.
DSD files are not a special, magical exception to the world of computers, where trickery, mirrors, and slight-of-hand gimmickry takes place.
Install a program that is designed to use DSD files, and you can use DSD files, the same as any other file type and its associated programs.
I use "keepass" as my password manager.
It saves its encrypted vault of passwords in a "kdbx" file.
If I were to copy that "kdbx" file to a computer that does not have "keepass" installed, then that computer would not know what to do with that "kdbx" file -- the same as it would not know what to do with a DSD file.
When I install "keepass", I am not fooling the computer into using the "kdbx" file. The same goes for DSD files. Install a program that is designed to use DSD files, and that is it.
DSD files are not a special case where sorcery takes place.
The issue here is that audio is more than about interpreting file types in any modern computer. Under every operating system of today you'll find an audio architecture where the audio flows from some source to some output. A source could be some streaming service, for example. The operating system takes care of any attenuation, sample rate conversion, mixing etc. to manage the audio from multiple sources and optionally several outputs. Operating systems always rely on PCM in this internal audio architecture as doing math to the audio streams is vital for the functionality. DSD is not compatible through the OS audio architecture and if you play it from a source, it will get transcoded to PCM. Same goes for other formats e.g. MP3 (I still remember that...) playback will also result in PCM. Usually, an operating system, works with a certain PCM clock such as 48kHz and that streamlines all playback to this clock frequency. Nowadays you can run your OS in exclusivity mode where the audio stream can be allowed to go lossless through the OS to the DAC incl. at high sample rates. I use that on my Macs to allow lossless playback of up to 192kHz 24 bits from Amazon Music HD. Playing DSD as files of course is possible as you describe, but it's quite a yesterday approach to playing music. There is a diminishing return of investment as you go above CD specs. 192kHz 24 bits seems already at a level beyond human perception. Most certainly 24 bits is already 4 bits more than you can actually use (due to thermal noise) and 192kHz allows much superior time precision than 44.1kHz. Does DSD-256 sound better than 192kHz 24 bits PCM? I don't think so and unless someone can prove it in a blind test, don't buy it.
You are wasting your time with these people. Having a financial interest in getting people to buy expensive audio hardware. It’s all a con.
DSD is just another example of a Gimmick making people think it’s something out of this World technology..LOL
DSD is a file format that will play on a phone. No Alien 👽technology involved..LOL.
Well thats incorrect when the entire windows audio stack is built around PCM, if you know anything about DSD youll know its fundamentally and completly different hence all the faffing around to output a Dsd stream for the dac to recognise.
@@MrDingaling007 "Well thats incorrect..."
That is incorrect.
"...the entire windows audio stack is built around PCM..."
Hence any program that has the coding to perform the operations for a DAC to process the data stream will play your music files. It is not magic. It is software. Everything that runs on a computer is software driven.
"...if you know anything about DSD youll know its fundamentally and completly different..."
Do you think that people that play mp3 files know anything about audio stacks? Or anything, whatsoever, about what is involved to get an mp3 (or any music file) to play?
There is no need for the customer to know. They click on the file, and it plays. The computer is not scratching its head, wondering how that happens.
You can run Windows on a Mac, or run a Mac on Linix, or run Linux on Windows, etc.
Was Windows designed to run IOS?
Was Linux designed to run Windows?
There is no magic involved; just software what is written to make it work.
Our host is told by his staff that it is some sort of magic. Our host knows little about computers. So he is impressed with that magic, and he conveys as much by stating how his team fools the computer.
If our host found out that NTFS has alternate data streams, he might believe that that is a secret door into a magical land of data storage.
@@MrDingaling007 The entire audio stack of every modern operating system is based on PCM. DSD was great 20 years ago for SACD beating CD.
I know. Lets ask Greta Thundberg what her opinion is on playing DSD files. Paul trusts her on climate science so how hard could this be for a high school drop out.
More like Greta Roonberg
DSD is just another Gimmick.