Hi Zach! I love your videos so much as they are super helpful and informative. I've seen very few composers do this and I've always wondered why. What are the short midi regions at the beginning of the score used for? Are those just for CC messages or used for something different? Also are you inputting those yourself or is that an option that you can toggle in Logic Pro?
@@nealpolitan_6thI always leave four bars on everything. So my downbeat is always bar 5. This leaves lots of room for rolls in, harp gliss, backwards sounds, midi messages for older hardware synths etc.
Very true. I was also scared of using Reverb although I don't like dry sound at all, but now I am not afraid of reverb anymore. The different instruments of an orchestra just blend so much better when you add a nice reverb. I just don't like to use different reverbs on different instruments. I use one reverb for the whole orchestra.
I think getting it to sound more "realistic" is a good first step for people new to orchestration. That's what I'm working on right now. And reverbs just don't come naturally to me. I'll hear some mixes that sounds great using a lot of it, so it isn't that I don't like it, it's more that I can't seem to get it right.
I'm almost a complete newcomer so I apologize in advance if my question is overly basic. I may have a misunderstanding about a certain aspect of this that I hope you all can help me with. I'll try to ask this as simply as I can. I am using two reverbs for an orchestral project. 1. Convolution reverb bus for placing the instrument groups in the same room, using different amounts of pre-delay based on depth in the orchestra. I have 4 buses in total. More pre-delay for close groups and progressively less as depth in the orchestra increases. This sounds the most natural to my ears. 2. Algorithmic reverb bus for the tail. I have all instruments/tracks going independently to this bus on a separate send. What I'm struggling with understanding and have heard differing opinions on regarding the tail reverb is; should the individual instruments/tracks be sent to the tail reverb as I am doing now or should the convolution reverb busses be sent to the algorithmic reverb bus instead? Lastly, should the tail reverb have pre-delay on it? If so, how much? Much thanks in advance!
Hey Ron! There's really no right answer--what sounds best is usually what is best, so if what you've got sounds good to you then stick with it :) But generally I send the instruments to the algorithmic and conciliation reverbs. Some people use separate reverbs for each instrument group, using shorter predelays for instruments farther back in the room (perc, brass). But if you're sending all instruments to the same reverbs, try starting with 20ms predelay and go from there 👍🏻
AH--no, you're actually correct, I misspoke! I edited the original post for other readers... a long predelay for close instruments is correct, that way there's clarity before the reflections hit 👍🏻 This proves I'm a go-by-feel kind of mixer 😉
Hy Zach ! Thank you for this video and your invaluable work! I would have liked to know what you thought about using plugins such as precedence and breeze for VSTs like CSS, Spitfire etc... It this really a game changer or the mic positions on these VSTs more than enough to reproduce all sorts of configurations? Because my biggest fault is not knowing how to add depth. Thanks in advance ;)
Thank you for your explaination and advice to us. Regarding the point of differences between live orchestras and VSTs I wonder how long it will be until there won't be any audible differences anymore, because of technological progress. Libraries like Spitfire's BBCSO already provide 21 mic positions and sounds stunningly realistic in my perception so I think it won't be a long way to bring that to perfection.
Hey thanks for this! If I work with sends though, I can´t just send the same signal to the convolution room and the long tail right? I would have to send it to the convolution room and then send that convolution signal to the long tail valhalla reverb? Thanks again, very insightful :)
Great video! How do you feel about sending the whole orchestra through one/three reverbs as opposed to doing it instrument by instrument or section by section?
To my ears, the 2CB2 sounds nice but rather colorless. It reminds me a bit of Waves’s old Trueverb in that way. The settings you’re using make it a lot denser than Trueverb, which is why a little goes a long way, and why it tends to sound dreamy. But it’s similarly kind of gray in tone rather than colorful like Lexicon or Cinematic Rooms. It should be a good choice when you want something unobtrusive.
Hey Zach, nice content. Really has been helpful and i only discovered your channel early this year. I have question about reverbs. Whats your take on Eastwest Spaces 2? Would you use that to create Conv. Space than add algorithmic space?? - Josh
Thanks for another awesome video Zach! Been needing some clarity on this topic for a while now. Side question: do you add 'Fresh Air' and a compressor to all your tracks? Or maybe just the strings or melodic instruments? Wondering how you make use of that in your template. Appreciate it 🤙
I feel like this is gonna be the one people have been waiting for. Do you think it's possible to get a more small broadway pit band sound using reverb? I know people mostly rely on the reverb hiding certain elements making it more real, the larger room size helps especially with the tail. I wish there was more intimate librarys out there for this kinda stuff, where a splash of reflection verb and it's perfect. Have you ever dived into older musical films, such as the sound of music, mary poppins and chitty chitty bang bang. They have a delightful sound to them all
Hi all! I asked this question directly to Zach but in case he misses it or can't respond, I thought I'd open the question up to you all. I've seen very few composers do this and I've always wondered why. What are the short midi regions at the beginning of the score used for? Are those just for CC messages or used for something different? Would you input those yourself or is that an option that you can toggle within Logic Pro?
Those are MIDI flags! Anne Kathryn Dern has a great video on it--they're just MIDI CC messages to serve as a reset for the beginning of a piece, primarily so CC7 and CC11 are reset (controlling MIDI volume/expression)
Fantastic video Zach, thank you. Curious to know if and what eq curves you apply before and/or after your reverbs on Aux channels if using sends from tracks. This is important so that the essence of the reverb presence remains but does not cause muddiness in the mix. I think something like the Abbey Road trick takes too much away from the reverb so curious what your settings are. Cheers.
@@ZachHeyde Hi there a bit of a delayed reply to your kind reply, can I ask how low do you roll off/slope type when you cut? im starting to think that too it might be better to roll off no more than 200-250hz?? otherwise the reverb tends to lose its purpose and you could adversely impact the low orchestral instruments which can benefit from the reverb .. is it better to send less reverb for low instruments but dont roll off too much, as opposed to rolling off more but also sending more? thanks in advance for your advice.
Hi Zack, thanks for Your insightful video. Do You also use the much discussed „final glue“ reverb on the master bus? My experience is more ambivalent : if You set to much of it , everything sounds washed out and loses definition, if You take too less it seems to make no difference so You could just leave it out.
Good question! I don't put anything on the master bus, as it would get lost when sending individual track stems. I try to keep everything on the grouped busses, and only apply little touches for the mastering process of the soundtrack release!
Thank You for this amazing helpfull video Zach ! If i could may small request , would be really great if You could do tutorial like thas about Orchestra EQ settings You like , You know from Woodwinds to harp and percussion , that would be really great im always struggle with that i guess not only me :) Anyway thank You and looking forward for more .
If you'd like me to cover a specific video topic, be sure to check out my Patreon in the description!
Hi Zach! I love your videos so much as they are super helpful and informative.
I've seen very few composers do this and I've always wondered why. What are the short midi regions at the beginning of the score used for? Are those just for CC messages or used for something different?
Also are you inputting those yourself or is that an option that you can toggle in Logic Pro?
@@nealpolitan_6thI always leave four bars on everything. So my downbeat is always bar 5. This leaves lots of room for rolls in, harp gliss, backwards sounds, midi messages for older hardware synths etc.
Very true. I was also scared of using Reverb although I don't like dry sound at all, but now I am not afraid of reverb anymore. The different instruments of an orchestra just blend so much better when you add a nice reverb. I just don't like to use different reverbs on different instruments. I use one reverb for the whole orchestra.
Jeremey Soule loves his reverb. I think Oblivion's OST is even more reverberant than Skyrim's.
I think getting it to sound more "realistic" is a good first step for people new to orchestration. That's what I'm working on right now. And reverbs just don't come naturally to me. I'll hear some mixes that sounds great using a lot of it, so it isn't that I don't like it, it's more that I can't seem to get it right.
7:18 I agree! 2c-Audio stuff is the best and under-discussed!
Very clearly explained and nicely demonstrated. We’ll done! Thank you!
Thanks for your explanation... really useful. Subscribed and liked ! Cheers from Mexico !
Thanks you for doing this video 😊🙏
I'm almost a complete newcomer so I apologize in advance if my question is overly basic. I may have a misunderstanding about a certain aspect of this that I hope you all can help me with. I'll try to ask this as simply as I can. I am using two reverbs for an orchestral project.
1. Convolution reverb bus for placing the instrument groups in the same room, using different amounts of pre-delay based on depth in the orchestra. I have 4 buses in total. More pre-delay for close groups and progressively less as depth in the orchestra increases. This sounds the most natural to my ears.
2. Algorithmic reverb bus for the tail. I have all instruments/tracks going independently to this bus on a separate send.
What I'm struggling with understanding and have heard differing opinions on regarding the tail reverb is; should the individual instruments/tracks be sent to the tail reverb as I am doing now or should the convolution reverb busses be sent to the algorithmic reverb bus instead? Lastly, should the tail reverb have pre-delay on it? If so, how much? Much thanks in advance!
Hey Ron! There's really no right answer--what sounds best is usually what is best, so if what you've got sounds good to you then stick with it :) But generally I send the instruments to the algorithmic and conciliation reverbs. Some people use separate reverbs for each instrument group, using shorter predelays for instruments farther back in the room (perc, brass). But if you're sending all instruments to the same reverbs, try starting with 20ms predelay and go from there 👍🏻
@@ZachHeyde Wow, what service! ;)
AH--no, you're actually correct, I misspoke! I edited the original post for other readers... a long predelay for close instruments is correct, that way there's clarity before the reflections hit 👍🏻 This proves I'm a go-by-feel kind of mixer 😉
@@ZachHeyde Ah - thank you for the clarification!
Hy Zach ! Thank you for this video and your invaluable work!
I would have liked to know what you thought about using plugins such as precedence and breeze for VSTs like CSS, Spitfire etc... It this really a game changer or the mic positions on these VSTs more than enough to reproduce all sorts of configurations?
Because my biggest fault is not knowing how to add depth.
Thanks in advance ;)
Thank you for your explaination and advice to us. Regarding the point of differences between live orchestras and VSTs I wonder how long it will be until there won't be any audible differences anymore, because of technological progress. Libraries like Spitfire's BBCSO already provide 21 mic positions and sounds stunningly realistic in my perception so I think it won't be a long way to bring that to perfection.
Thank you for posting. Very helpful!
That was awesome and a very good tutorial! Now I know how to this is a beautiful genre that I have never heard of that I now love
Hey thanks for this!
If I work with sends though, I can´t just send the same signal to the convolution room and the long tail right?
I would have to send it to the convolution room and then send that convolution signal to the long tail valhalla reverb?
Thanks again, very insightful :)
Great video! How do you feel about sending the whole orchestra through one/three reverbs as opposed to doing it instrument by instrument or section by section?
Really helpful Zach, I’ve never blended Reverb’s before. I tend to use Altiverb or Valhalla but blending sounds amazing. Thanks for this.
To my ears, the 2CB2 sounds nice but rather colorless. It reminds me a bit of Waves’s old Trueverb in that way. The settings you’re using make it a lot denser than Trueverb, which is why a little goes a long way, and why it tends to sound dreamy. But it’s similarly kind of gray in tone rather than colorful like Lexicon or Cinematic Rooms. It should be a good choice when you want something unobtrusive.
Hey Zach, nice content. Really has been helpful and i only discovered your channel early this year. I have question about reverbs. Whats your take on Eastwest Spaces 2? Would you use that to create Conv. Space than add algorithmic space?? - Josh
Thanks for another awesome video Zach! Been needing some clarity on this topic for a while now. Side question: do you add 'Fresh Air' and a compressor to all your tracks? Or maybe just the strings or melodic instruments? Wondering how you make use of that in your template. Appreciate it 🤙
Thank you! I just add it to my strings and winds bus 👍🏻
Mmm got it got it... imma have to do some experimenting with this Thanks!@@ZachHeyde
I feel like this is gonna be the one people have been waiting for. Do you think it's possible to get a more small broadway pit band sound using reverb? I know people mostly rely on the reverb hiding certain elements making it more real, the larger room size helps especially with the tail. I wish there was more intimate librarys out there for this kinda stuff, where a splash of reflection verb and it's perfect. Have you ever dived into older musical films, such as the sound of music, mary poppins and chitty chitty bang bang. They have a delightful sound to them all
Definitely! I touch on several scenarios in this video so I think/hope it'll answer that question for you 😁
8 to 9 seconds?!?! That’s crazy, I would have never guessed you had something like that in your template. Sound great though.
Yeah it's SUPER buried in certain instruments though so you it's not in the foreground! I think Daniel Beijbom does something similar!
He didn't. He discovered his long was set to 3.5s.
I heard Ori and instantly knewI had to sub ha ha
Hi all! I asked this question directly to Zach but in case he misses it or can't respond, I thought I'd open the question up to you all.
I've seen very few composers do this and I've always wondered why. What are the short midi regions at the beginning of the score used for? Are those just for CC messages or used for something different?
Would you input those yourself or is that an option that you can toggle within Logic Pro?
Those are MIDI flags! Anne Kathryn Dern has a great video on it--they're just MIDI CC messages to serve as a reset for the beginning of a piece, primarily so CC7 and CC11 are reset (controlling MIDI volume/expression)
Hi What do you think of altiverb？
Fantastic video Zach, thank you. Curious to know if and what eq curves you apply before and/or after your reverbs on Aux channels if using sends from tracks. This is important so that the essence of the reverb presence remains but does not cause muddiness in the mix. I think something like the Abbey Road trick takes too much away from the reverb so curious what your settings are. Cheers.
Thanks! Mostly just a slight cut in the low end to reduce muddiness, as you mentioned.
@@ZachHeyde Hi there a bit of a delayed reply to your kind reply, can I ask how low do you roll off/slope type when you cut? im starting to think that too it might be better to roll off no more than 200-250hz?? otherwise the reverb tends to lose its purpose and you could adversely impact the low orchestral instruments which can benefit from the reverb .. is it better to send less reverb for low instruments but dont roll off too much, as opposed to rolling off more but also sending more? thanks in advance for your advice.
Hello, why is it better to put the reverb on the sends and not on the actual tracks?
Hi Zack, thanks for Your insightful video. Do You also use the much discussed „final glue“ reverb on the master bus? My experience is more ambivalent :
if You set to much of it , everything sounds washed out and loses definition, if You take too less it seems to make no difference so You could just leave it out.
Good question! I don't put anything on the master bus, as it would get lost when sending individual track stems. I try to keep everything on the grouped busses, and only apply little touches for the mastering process of the soundtrack release!
Realism is great. But of course recorded soundtracks also use copious amounts of artificial reverbs. 😄
Thank You for this amazing helpfull video Zach ! If i could may small request , would be really great if You could do tutorial like thas about Orchestra EQ settings You like , You know from Woodwinds to harp and percussion , that would be really great im always struggle with that i guess not only me :) Anyway thank You and looking forward for more .
Thanks for watching! It's on the to-do list 😁