Inside the Chieftain's Hatch: M47 Patton II Part 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 เม.ย. 2016
- We're back! Part 2 of 2.
NA forum discussion thread
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Asian thread:
forum.worldoftanks.asia/index....
Console:
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I'm off to Detroit to get mine now, thanks chieftain!
"An interesting thing about the M1 is that it doesn't have a belly hatch"
I've had people try to tell me that the tank in the opening of "The Walking Dead" is supposed to be an M1 Abrams not a Chieftain, my counterpoint has always been "If it was supposed to be an M1 then Rick would have died under it because M1's don't have escape hatches, ergo it must be *supposed* to be something else"
Or the writers don't know much about tanks
@@sillysailor5932 Or.. and hear me out, Rick is a god and punched a hole through the tank.
It doesn't have the belly hatch because of the NBC system. Also having a solid piece of armor for the floor makes the tanks more mine resistant
Poor bow gunner, had nothing to do and than he was suddenly kicked out for more things that go boom.
Looking at the placement of the turret rain channels makes me think they were necessary due to the variable vertical curvature of the casting causing heavy rain sheeting down and launching off the acute curve and making an airborne stream landing on the drivers periscope. The channels would not carry away all the runoff but would kill the sheet launching.
Couple years late, but it was mentioned in the previous video's comments that the "rain channels' were for moving burning Molotov Cocktail ingredients away from vital bits.
A bit of speculation by this Artilleryman about the breach lever being on the gunner's side. It could be intentional in order for the gunner to have full control of the gun. Or it could be because of the guns lineage to howitzers of the time which operated from the right side of the gun, while the trigger was on the left. The breech block also looks very similar to the breech on the M102 howitzer I used to work with.
Absolutely terrific videos. A professional job with the best production values anywhere on TH-cam.
Chieftain--in your opinion, among the major post-WW2 tank producers which country has the best human engineering? By that I mean things like equipment placement and ease of use, maintainability, crew safety and comfort (interior space!)--all those things that allow crew and vehicle to become an effective, sustainable combat system. Which country do you think does the best job?
23:43 the use of hex socket bolts in the bow gun caught my eye. They are probably put in during restoration and not what it originally had?
Do you think you can get a look at some of the upgraded M47s?
The 105mm must have been "interesting" for the loader, and ISTR there were at least two different diesel conversions...
Seemed to be having some trouble with flies buzzing you on that one. Another great video, either way ;-)
This is a tank that actually I was inside. Many years ago we in the school visited a open day in Spanish army.
The space in both the M47 and M48 seemed me roomy. Likely because I was young and slim.
2:08 i remember a story of Sherman picking up the wounded in the pacific by driving over them and pulling them in thru the belly hatch
3:18 the hand controls look like some awesome video game! A 30 cal machine gun may have been more desirable because the rounds being smaller than the 50 caliber guns,you could get a lot more rounds into the space allotted. There obviously was not much room at all,every inch would of been used.
I would prefer to go for broke and have one of each. The 30 for the infantry, the 50 for light vehicles. The 105 is when you want to really get their attention.
1:44 - I am not sure why.
But I really like this panel.
It looks so unique and beefy.
So the M4 Shermans had the turret ring ready ammo removed as one of the first safety improvements.
Interesting to see rounds there again in the M47.
Could you possibly do a few videos on M4 Sherman? A standard, short 75mm, classic one? It would be really awesome to see one from the perspective of a real tanker.
I want to see the E8 actually, or any Sherman besides the Firefly.
A friend told me the biggest problem with the lack of an escape hatch in the belly, was he had to get out of the tank to take a piss
Two tanks you have to try and get permission to feature: the T28 Gun Motor Carriage (or T95, as we WoT players know it) that's currently presiding on a large stone platform at Fort Benning, and the T29. According to Wikipedia. two T29s are at Fort Benning "in preparation for an armor exhibit," which to me, means they're probably not there anymore, but it also states that one is in Warren, Michigan.
The T28 super heavy tank was renamed the T95 GMC so.. Just T95
+Aaron Turner They're still in Benning. They're trying to make a museum there.
+TheChieftainWoT Would it be possible to make a video on "The Doom Turtle"?
+Aaron Turner Oh yes, i would love to see at least T29, the best tier 8..ehm 7, heavy :D
TheChieftainWoT So any chance of you coming down here to Georgia to give them some time in the spotlight at some point?
I would really like to see this tank being driven and the other controls working
Nice jab at Patton (not a bad film to be fair) and Battle of the Bulge (bleh) towards the end there.
In both movies they use Spanish Army tanks. A bunch of M47 (and some M48) was given to the Spanish army. For many years, these were the most modern tanks that they can get, so they improved them several times, they changed the motor and gun to made it similar to M-60
As he points out,the Germans weren't afraid of Patton because none of them knew who he was! LOL!
@@josemigarrido do not forget that Italy received about 2,480 M-47 but as Germany (quite understandably) refused to lease their tanks for the film...
I dread the thought of having to go through the escape hatch, unless you are dwarf sized. My god, the mans shoes are almost big enough to cover it.
If the Chieftain is 6'5", those are probably size 14 shoes minimum. And as he said in the Jagdpanzer 38 video, if you need the hatch, you will figure out how to get through.
+Vnx 12, actually.
Ah, same size as me then. I'm only 6' though.
+TheChieftainWoT i have a request what about the swedish artillery bkan 1 (bandkanon 1) or the swedish strv 103 (stridsvagn 103) i think both of them i avalible in a museum in boden, sweden.:-)
I'm a tank inspector (storage tank), and the minimum sized hatch (we call them "manways") that I can easily ingress and egress is an 18". A 16" hatch and my shoulders start getting in the way. I've done a 14" hatch before, it was tricky. I'm 6'2, 210lbs. So the main part of your body (if you are in reasonable shape) that is going to hinder you going through a hatch is your shoulders.
1:11 - estimate exactly , sounds like an oxymoron.
- love your stuff
.
I always get a twitch starting when I hear him call the 50 or 30 cals as caliber 50 or caliber 30 etc. I am an old artilleryman from the early 80s so it's possible some terms may have changed since then. About pivot steering I drove an M577 command post carrier, it used an old M113 style system with the two lateral handles. Push both forward to go forward, both back to go backwards. Pull on the right one only for a right turn. To pivot steer you locked one place and pulled the other handle thus the track could basically spin in place. I saw this done by an M60 tank in Germany on the Autobahn in the fog. It was a three lane stretch of road. The tank was part of a platoon(5 tanks) that got separated from the others when the first three took an off ramp. When the last two figured out what happened instead of looking for the next off ramp they pivot steered in place this at one point blocking all three Lanes and in the fog behind them we heard a horrid screech and crash as about twenty or so cars were turned into scrap. I was driving the battery commanders jeep that day and we just pulled off to the shoulder luckily none of our battery was involved. It cost us half a day while the polizei sorted out the mess and cleared the road so all the rest of us could get by. That occured during one eventful Reforger where a couple of gamma goats flipped over a other with it's antenna still up frying everyone in the cab. We managed to crush a few little European cars and damage parts of historic towns, as well as tear up a couple of farmers fields when we set up to fire (pretend). There were these public relations kind of officers who would drive around writing numbers on a slip of paper that either made some old guy happy or insulted his family that had been farming that land since before before Fredrick the Great. As a side note my unit was training in Grafenwohr when the german singer Nena came to make the video for 99 red balloons. We had no idea who they were but they borrowed some of our powder bags to simulate explosions. Whenever I see that video I go back in time. I used to love to pivot steer in the motor pool it would leave these circles reminded me of the handbrake turns top gear would do years ago. Enjoy the videos always
on the m1 pivot steer is controlled with brake. neutral steer is controlled by throtle
Do you think you'll get a look around the Valiant A38 in the future?
A minor quibble, turret ventilators don't evacuate fumes, they actually pull in exterior air thus pushing fumes out of the turret. That's why the T55 lost the ventilator dome from the T54. When the T55 got an NBC system it just wouldn't do to have a ventilator pulling in noxious air. Thus the T55 lost a ventilator but gained a bore evacuator. It is for that same reason that the M1A1 lost the turret blower from the earlier M1.
+drkjk Fair enough. I admit to never having looked into it.
The rain channels are clearly there to prevent water pouring into the driver and bow gunners hatches if They're open (do they do that when it's raining?). Or would the cascading water affect anything to do with the driver if the hatch was closed....
In your myths of American armor video you pointed out the different hatches of tanks. With the Tiger you mentioned how the seat and hatch were not aligned. Did the Germans just chose the placement of the hatch as an afterthought?
Wow Mr. Moran you're really tall! That's tall as my dad... 195 cm.. And I always thought you looked only about 6'
They used them for making the "Battle of the Bulge"... When I was very young and did not know better I actually thought they were the Tiger II's, lol...
"Breech handle next to gunner" Maybe so the gunner pulls the handle, allowing loader to more easily use both arms to catch shell?
Ever considered doing an episode for the ELC?
+The InfinitySkull I think he would give up trying to demonstrate the inside of that thing
It small, but it can't be as bad as a T-34, right?
+The InfinitySkull The driver sits half in the turret and half in the hull. So, yeah
Question, could you please explain the acronym GAT in reference to the 50 Cal Browning mounted on the turret of Shermans in WWII.Thanks for your great work too Chieftain.
+MrLeo2A6 Not really, but one's 'gat' is one's weapon. Comes from 'Gatling gun', but I don't believe it's a term used in the US much. More a British one. You have an example of its use?
Thanks for the quick response sir, a slight mistake, it was referred to on a forum when some one asked what the terms/names are for the weapons stations on WW II tanks, it was in reference to a M4A3E8 and it was the commanders 30 cal actually, my mistake. Love your work.
Not quite on topic, but this series would be great if extended to artillery, especially anti-tank guns and the techniques used.
When will implement mass production type of M47 Patton II in US branch? Since I saw it in 25th infantry division boot camp at 2012, I always want it but There is no true M47 Patton on this game.
and What name of 90mm M41 armed M47?
So is neutral steer the one where it rotates in place, or the one where it rotates around a track? That tangent was really difficult to follow.
Neutral steer is one track reverse one track forward(i.e. rotate about the center of the 'tank'[your rotates in place]), whilst pivot steer is one track braked one track forward (i'e' track 'pivots' about one track).
Question, why don't you mention armor specs or anything? Curious, because some of these tanks look like they have very little protection.
+Ben S He's mentioned before that stuff like specs the viewer either knows or can look up. He is more interested in giving the viewer an idea of what it was like for the crew members day to day operation of the tank or what ideas when in to designing the tank.
Ah the foot switch high beams, found in almost every american car up into the 80s, not surprised they found their way into tanks but its pretty damn cool.
I still find myself stomping the floor on the left.
Estimate exactly. Funny choice of words.
The "assistant driver" must have been a position reserved for Specialist/E-4's
Nope, PV2 right out of AIT. PFC loaders. SP4 drivers. SGT gunners. SSG tank commanders.
Hey chief are you going to do the Centurion? (mark of your choice), because you've only done FV4201 chieftain, comet, FV214 conqueror and M10 GMC Achilles for British vehicles. (is it because you don't not have easy access to that Type of Vehicle or do you just schedule what tanks your going to do Next?)
Estimate exactly, indeed
Yeah the Patton movie had m47s as german tanks lol. It was so funny.
M24 Chaffee were the Shermans
Chieftain, will you ever review FV4004 Conway?? :D
Spare 50 cal barrels OUTSIDE on the side of the turret? Bet those things got a LOT of rust from exposure to the elements.
Please do the M-60,, M-60A1 and M-60-A3 Back in the 1970ies we were in them I was in the 2/337 85DIV and they were our tanks..
No M60A2?🤣
@@JohnRodriguesPhotographer No we did not use them that 152mm gun launcher was no good on the m60 a2 0r on the Sheridan we all dislike it!
@@emmetttaylor1739 I know, just giving you a hard time. Even the Israelis said he'll no to them. I have a newspaper clipping from Fort Dix, I think it was 1960. I would have to go look at the clipping. My dad was commanding the first M60 to arrive on base. It's definitely the original M60 with the fish bowl turret. He is standing up in the hatch. He was an E7 at the time I believe, and then he was promoted to e8 master and then a year before he retired he was made a top sergeant. He got out on August 30 of 1966 at Fort Devens. He had orders for September the 1st to embark for Vietnam. He had already done his time in World War II and some in Korea so he figured he had done enough and did not rovoke his retirement papers
Couldn't the breech operator's handle be operated by the gunner since the gunner is beside it and the loader would be in danger behind the gun?
+junsengjs In theory, but it shouldn't be his job, and I'm not sure he'll have a great angle for leverage given where he's seated.
Nice. One question how does a turret rotate 360 in the same direction multiple times but no wires get tangled? How do devices in the turret get power without a cable attaching from the hull and that cable not snapping when the turret rotates 360 in the same direction?
+The Standard Gamer That's a very good question, and i would also like to know the correct answer to that question. The only system i have any experience of is basically conducting the electricity by use of a brush. The rotating object would have a ring around it's support that conducts electricity and at the end of the wire on the stationary object you would find a metal brush that is always in contact with the ring. Mind you, i have no idea when this system was popular, or if it is even used anymore.
gamma7897 But that seems like a lot of sparks would fly and it would be dangerous. But I wonder what it's like now
+gamma7897 In effect, that's exactly what happens. Though I believe it's mounted in a 'pylon' at the center of the turret, as opposed to around the ring. www.vmmv.org/tanktk/m4turret/images/tur01.jpg cnet4.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2013/07/09/f2de954b-f07a-11e2-8c7c-d4ae52e62bcc/resize/1170xauto/fc81786877bafc773d7eb1bbbd8f6f17/Systems_inside_hull_1.jpg
TheChieftainWoT Thanks Cheif
+gamma7897 They are known as "Slip Rings"
How do you estimate exactly? lol
Belly hatch.... IED.... I'll stick with my old belly hatchless M1A1. Does the Bradley still have the troop seat behind the driver? People used to store stuff there because it was useless as a troop seat. Bradley driver drowned in Hohenfells in the 80's after nosing into water and could get out through the back cause of this.
4:17 Didnt Pattons 37th Tank Battalion-4th Armored Div. friend, fave commander & later M.A.C.V Overall Commander, -Gen. Creighton Abrams run co-ax 50's?
-His unit armorer/Field WorkshopCo's fab'd up some custom made coaxial mount(s) to replace/YUPgrade the 30'06/30cal Browning 1919 with M2/50 cals?...
-Pretty certain Ive read Abrams & tanks in his unit had 'em up n' runnin in his M4A3E8 Sherman "ThunderBolt VII"...
-His ThunderBolt VII also wearing a field mod'd full size glacis plate, turret cheeks & additional sponson "Box" armor made from a wrecked Panther tanks the former crewmen had zero uses for @ the time...
18:45 that's incorrect. You can use nututal gear to pivot. All you have to do is rotate the steering and apply the gas and the tank will pivot.
There is a warning printed on the control handle in the M1 that the tank will still move in neutral if the handle is turned, yes, but for reliable controllable steering, the selector must be placed in PVT.
At about the 13 minute mark you stated (incorrectly) that the M3 90mm gun "obviously will not fire the later ammunition such as the T33". This is incorrect. The M3 90mm (as mounted in the Pershing) did fire T33 ammunition. In fact it was the second round fired at the Cologne Panther in the famous video. This is documented in Hunnicutt's book on the Pershing (page 20). He goes on to state T33 was used to knock out 2 MarkIVs at 1200 yards. It is also listed in the "Armor Piercing Ammunition for Gun, 90mm, M3" publication dated January 1945. Don't mean to nit-pick but ammunition seems to be a largely ignored subject when most people discuss tank features - when in fact the projectiles are where the rubber meets the road. How about a special show on the physics of armor penetration? It would be fascinating. I'd love to hear a metallurgist or physicist (try to) explain what is happening when different hardness steels collide, or when a HEAT round goes off. Or related to this topic - delving into how during WW2 America standardized on capped AP ammo (M82, M61, M62, M86) for all its guns when in fact the Germans had long since stopped using face hardened armor (thus the success of T33). Scandalous!... Keep up the great work!
Projectile yes, but fired at a lower charge.
Check this out navweaps.com/index_nathan/index_nathan.php#Articles_on_Armor_Penetration_and_the_Properties_of_Armor_Plate
Why are those T33 rounds missing their ballistic cap?
SHOT, FIXED, A.P.-T., 90mm, T33.
DESCRIPTION. The 90mm Armor Piercing Shot T33 is issued as a fixed complete round for the Gun, 90mm, M3 mounted in Heavy Tank, T26E3 and Gun Motor Carriages, M36 and M36B1. The shot is a modification of the standard AP, M77 which has been reheat-treated and to which a ballistic windshield has been attached. From "Armor-Piercing Ammunition for Gun 90-mm M3" January 1945www.lonesentry.com/manuals/90-mm-ammunition/Which will tell you more than you ever wanted to know about the subject
www.lonesentry.com/manuals/90-mm-ammunition/
"estimate exactly" ???
''see your local Detroit Arsenal or Alco Dealer'' lol
Unfortunately, ALCO went belly up in December 1969. It had been number two loco maker to GM, then GE entered the field and pushed them to number three. Sales were dropping and they couldn't compete in terms of resources so they packed it in. I remember reading the story in Trains magazine and being saddened - I had a soft spot for ALCO since it was the underdog. It was the last of the Big Three steam loco builders - Lima, Baldwin and American - to die.
1 meter 98 Europeans !! More like 1meter 98 the rest of the world
I didn't know you knew about the Abrams. I'm guessing you can't really do a review on that one because maybe the army wouldn't want that information going around, and world of tanks won't be adding the m1a2 anytime soon. Although it would be very funny.
He's actually a US tanker, and runs in the 'M1A2. But I would agree I'd love to see him do a tank review of the Abrams. But some wouldn't like that too much...
+TwisterTLT T
There is very little about the M1A1 that isn't already public knowledge.
+drkjk M1A1, yes, but the M1A2, no. It has some highly classified materials in it that they require the tankers carry thermite just in case they need to abandon the tank.
Tank panic? what event was that?
during the Korean war
blacklupos
Oh I thought the Shermans did fairly well during the Korean War
***** He did, and the Pershing did even better. But at the start of the war the American's were afraid of Soviet intervention, and they didn't have anything as good as the IS-3.
blacklupos
Ah IS3......a damn monster that is.
Actually, the West was in a panic that WW3 was about to begin and all they had were left overs from the last war. Korea was thought to be a feint to draw US attention away from Europe while Britain was tied down in Malaya and France in Indochina (There was no new German Army yet, just some lightly armed border guards). That's reason the M47 never fought in Korea, they first went to Germany and then reequipped the active army in CONUS. Reserve components soldiered on with the M4 to 55-57.
so is it Slugger or Jackson? Because i have known it all my life as Slugger.
Uh, neither?
+exactinmidget92 It was officially designated Jackson in 1944
The_Chieftain wrote a hatch article about the document he found proving it
+Legiondude this is the m47, not the m36
+Funkidyo He segues onto the Jackson for a bit when talking about the gun because, surprise surprise, it's designated as "M36."
The fact that they still keep ammunition in the tanks gives me panic attacks
CAN ANYONE TELL ME.IF CHIEFTAIN. HAS DONE THE M-60A3,THANK'S
Yes, I can, and no, i have not
THANKS,MAYBE SOMEDAY..
DO IT! JUST DO IT!
That spare .50 barrel needs some cleaning & oiling, dammit [/NCO]
I had the same thought, my sense of what is right and proper kicked in. "That's a disgrace, clean it by yesterday! And Mr TC, I want to talk to you privately"
I picture most commanders not having a fifth man, and just using that spot on the tank to store crap.
Nichols, what is your nationality?.......it seems that your military service say American BUT you seem to have an Irish accent
Both, actually, but mainly US service. I'm an American by birth
Its hard to belive how much more comfortable is this tank in comparission to soviet ones.
Not that hard really, th-cam.com/video/RBqD7ZRwOtU/w-d-xo.html
a tanker should be build like a plug, 1.5 meters tall (or short) max. Xaxaxa.
hi
They used these in Darby’s Rangers as German tanks! Good old Hollywood wouldn’t know an M-47 from a Panther!
It wasn't even a matter of that. Even back then how many working German tanks were around to use for a movie? It was use other tanks or mock-ups (Kelly's Heroes "Tiger").
OK;... Six foot Five! Explains why every tank to him is cramped. Not fair coming from the M-1 Abrams that has enough room to party in.
But not every tank is cramped. Look at Sherman, Obj 216 for examples.
I remember the stories of British Spitfire pilots who encountered the Thunderbolt - the considered opinion was that if an enemy got on your tail, all you had to do was unbuckle your harness and run around the cockpit.
W.o.t. needs to boost this tank it's so un realistic
Thumb down just for the music, sorry.
Cheiftan is 1.98m?.. Im 1.80'ish.. Gosh im not gonna be able to be a tanker when i get near 20 y/o
+Valentine When I was in the army, most tankers seemed to be aroudn 165-170 cm tall. They really stood out at assemblies =P
Lavrentivs im a very tall 15 year old...
Valentine That's a drawback. We had one guy who was 210 cm tall. When he stood on the floor of a CV9040, his head stuck out of the turret. Not the best height for a crewman, so he got transferred^^
Lavrentivs oh well, if i can't be a tanker because of how tall i get, then the military might not be something for me
Valentine It's not for everyone, but just because you cannot work inside the tank doesn't mean you cannot work with the tank or in another part of the military =)
Using the M47 as a "King Tiger" i could get past,but the rest of the movie was utter bollox.It wasnt even a "secret weapon" by December,the allies knew the Tiger II well enough having destroyed or captured several in Normandy etc.
+19/-5? every source I could find (most notably hunnicut gives a max depression of -10.
+RoflSeal TM 9-718A, the operator's manual, states +19/-5. Page 19, if you go download it.
Seems there was some sort of stop to limit the depression to -5° (it could go to minus ten if this stop was removed) the stop was put in place (supposedly) to stop negative recoil effects if the gun was fired with this -10° depression
So the US sloughed off the crappy M-47 on NATO. Kelly's Heroes used a T-34 for a Tiger 1.
Chieftain, do you believe that the 'Underworld' movies could be real? Chieftain, people like to say things are "interesting" or "very interesting" or they say "that's very interesting". This video said "real tanks"... but of course they are real tanks and also of course very interesting, duh. Alan Watts says we are bewitched by words and likes to spell words out. He said there's a game of cat and mouse going on. Then I saw Sofilein and I believed him. That's very interesting.
Favorite tank of plastic army men. 😉
All of the guys at the tank museum are great but this Irish guy almost seems like he can't be arsed lol
second
So this vehicle is designed for a little man no more than 5ft’5 inches in height, built like a shit house and has an arm like Popeye? 😂