Loud and clear. Black and white. Point Made. No clutter, confusion, football rants...you hit the nail on the head. Thanks for saying what millions think.
Yes, except we don't know the history of McQueary at PSU. He could have easily been assaulted at the institution when he was there. PSU was wrong for having him coach the next game. But I can't blame MQueary for not stepping in because he could have some victim's guilt from that happening to him. It is easy for me to say I would step it and beat the shit out of Sandusky. But we all don't know everything that happened. The shame of McQueary and everything else that came with it. But I agree with May on 99.99% of this. And 110% that McQueary needed to be separated for the program. As a witness, as a former player, being directly involved...etc. It is inexplicable he was still there.
Okay let me defend McQuerry for a second okay let’s say you find something horrific, you don’t know what to do you call the person you trust more than anyone he trust his dad. Know his dad didn’t know would paterno would just pass the Buck. There is no good people in this situation, there is no winner now if I was McQuerry I would break it up first and when the situation is cleared then go to the person I trust most after something was done.
Football culture can get out of hand very quickly when there is no oversight. Ohio State is at least a large enough media market in a large city that there is some level of moderation that tempers the intensity. At Penn State there is no such moderating force.
Probably, but the point is that a scandal like this wouldn't happen there. Ohio State's culture runs deep, but it's tempered by a few moderating factors. If it got as extreme and perverted as Penn State's, I'd do my best to run away quickly, as long as I recognized it in time. I pray that I don't end up in the same brainwashed, demented state as most Penn State fans defending something truly disgusting.
But the core of the problem is the existence of Penn State culture itself right now. As I see it, the perversion has become so deeply linked with the culture that there's really no separating them now. And you're there. You've chosen to be part of the culture rather than to disown it. You're just one person, but that doesn't mean you didn't have an important choice to make. And you chose to do nothing.
The defense you just gave is the same defense that the Paterno defenders offered. you've asserted that you aren't part of the football culture, and thus this has nothing to do with you. That's weak, a lame defense. There are two options that would have allowed you to save your dignity: 1) run as far and as fast away from PSU as you can. OR 2) Work with every ounce in your body to change the culture. You haven't done either, and that makes you as guilty as the rest.
Keep in mind, at the time, Sandusky was a semi-deity in Happy Valley. McQueary was a young man, and I'm sure that he was intimidated by Sandusky. McQueary went through channels, and I don't fault him for that. Joe Paterno quashed the matter. If we're going to blame anybody else, let's look at "holier than thou" Joe.
avaxtakaka Lucky for Joe Pa that he died before he could face justice. Joe Pa was a practicing Catholic so he probably died believing that he would be held accountable by his maker.
Those were some enormous leaps you just made in your comment...."People like me"....to "large issues in this country" to being "sad when we vote" to "you are an insecure person". There's an eerie similarity between your apparent remarkable ability to reconcile such huge and obscure leaps in logic like those you just asserted and the remarkable twisting of understanding that's been taken up by the people who have stuck with Penn State through all of this.
As a man who truly despised Penn State as a commentator, Mark May is right on this one. Mike McQuery should have never been allowed to stay at the time. He was perhaps the most culpable and cowardly for not doing anything, when he allegedly heard and saw Sandusky in the shower with the boy victim, but walked away without confronting the alleged crime. Nuff said.
I'm not sure what you mean by "stick with". I cheer for their teams to win, and beyond that am unassociated with the state or the school. Given that the OSU scandal was contained to rule violations within the sports, and not a greater institutional moral issue, I was disappointed it happened because I assumed the athletic department leadership would be better at covering up rule violations than they were. It shook my fandom for a time because it caused the teams to win less, temporarily.
The problem wasn't Sandusky and McQueary. In fact, that's a laughably idiotic statement. It's like applying a band aid and saying you've cured the cancer.
Why did the NCAA rescind Penn State's sanctions after only 1 year given the heinous nature of these offenses? When SMU gets the death penalty and USC loses 30 sholarships because Reggie Bush's stepdad accepts a house it is hard to have any respect for the NCAA.
Oscar Banuelos that was the problem i had with this entire issue but if I was Mike mcquerry I would have done the same thing I would have beaten him up first but second thing is that you saw ur hero fuck a child a lot of people would have done what that wr coach did
@avaxtakaka not quite. My comment was mainly in reference to violent crimes, especially those involving children. When it comes to child abuse, I'm a firm believer that if you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem. Should Mcqueary be charged with child abuse? No. However, the school has a responsibility to hold staff accountable for all actions (or lack thereof) that perpetuate criminal activity.
You're obviously not critical of yourselves, though. You can't act as though you are and then offer no evidence for it. Otherwise you would have left the school long ago.
The media, unfortunately, hasn't talked about PSU in months. I wish they would, because like with so many things the media covers, once the glitzy story disappears they disappear. Unfortunately at PSU the core problems still persist, but those aren't fun for the media to cover.
No, but I think everyone must still fault the Germans who stood idly by. They're not innocent. I don't expect every one of them to have been a martyr, but I would expect them afterward to disown themselves and feel bad that they were there as it happened. Nearly every German who knew what was right, and knew what was going on, now feels terrible that they stood by before, during, and after.
That's exactly the problem, though, and I'm still unclear why you don't get it. It doesn't matter if you're appalled at Sandusky or the board. The issue wasn't what they did....that was obviously bad and indefensible. The root cause was the very culture you are a part of....the sort of place that inherently expects a level of accommodation for things like that. PSU "standing together" is exactly the problem. The more that term gets thrown around, the sicker everyone else gets about it.
There are a couple of points here, the first of which is that it's not really about whether you actively did anything wrong. In the aftermath, you've willfully sided with something that is institutionally terrible, and that is what I see as most wrong about what you've done. But that aside, most certainly you contributed to the lead-up. In your own small way, but no doubt you contributed.
I certainly don't think others are perfect. And when it's written, it's called libel. Slander is verbal. But no, none of it's "false". A lot of it is based on assumptions, but none of it is "false".
I can't stand Mark May under normal circumstances. There is nothing normal about this situation. I tip my hat to Mr. May for what he said. I will from now on view this man differently.
Yes, but those two things also have nothing to do with one another and I'm not sure why you're trying to connect them. You obviously fail to understand the point that everyone outside of State College has been trying to direct in your direction for the last year and a half, and that in itself vindicates our point.
The problem's been fixed. Sandusky is in prison. McQueary got fired. What's the problem? People like you can't let it go. Apologies have been made, the board have been replaced.
No, but it's a bigger issue than that. You can't look at it at the level of yourself as an individual. You have to think in terms of a bigger picture. It's a culture that is truly problematic to an irreconcilable level. You have the choice as an individual to be a part of that or not. Your individual decision won't change it, but it's a moral imperative that you pick a side, and by sticking around you've affirmed that you're ok with that culture. That's my problem with individuals like you.
No, I'm better than you because I recognize that I'm a coward, and that I at least wouldn't stand by and say it's ok. I'd probably run away and tell someone else to fix it. I'm an imperfect person, but I'm not so delusional to assume that just because I was there and I view myself as a good person that I didn't contribute to something terrible.
You jumped right into attack mode. You wrote off my logic before you even knew what it was, as I'm assuming you likely also wrote off all logic that has been critical of Penn State. It's really bizarre how defensive the PSU folks have been in all of this, and it screams to me that you likely do realize there's something much bigger that's awry at Penn State.
Says the man who was arrested twice for DUI's as an adult. Also, arrested as a college student for inciting a riot, jumping on cars, threatening police officers, encouraging others to attack the police. He who is without sin cast the first stone !
You’re seriously comparing all of that to children being sexually assaulted, really? I’m not condoning any of that nonsense, but as long as nobody was seriously injured or killed I could forgive all that, especially since it was a young kid who did it. I will NEVER forgive a grown ass man sexually molesting children
I'm a student, that makes me associated with the university. What is this point that you guys try to direct in our direction? The only point I get is being told I'm a disgrace for still attending my school, and having my degree's value diminished.
But the same problem here still comes up. The majority of people are still punished for the mistakes of the few. That's the real crime here! this happens all the time!
trying to ruin someone's life? that's an absurd claim. i'm not sure what "blindly following the media" even means, but i can assure you that is certainly not what i am doing.
Actually that's pretty much exactly what happens in small towns that get obsessed with football. Football gives them hope, something to grow attached to, and that attachment can twist morals in amazing ways. In your case, it's not that you were a football fanatic, but you also didn't have to be. PSU is a cultural entity. You fed it, and continue to feed it, and so long as it exists unchanged it will permit the same perversions.
I can’t stand Mark May he’s right in my opinion Joe Pa got blasted for the cover up & not doing more but other then Jerry Sandusky Mike McQuirey was the worst one here cause he saw an assault happening I would probably have gotten my ass kicked & fired but I would have done my best to stop it. I don’t need to go home & talk to my dad about sexual assault of a child being wrong. I’m amazed how Mike McQuirey didn’t suffer more media backlash then he did cause he saw something.
We just exist here, in the midst of a scandal that we had no part in. I was here before it happened. It has nothing to do with my integrity as a person. I'm not staff.
People followed hitler blindly because they were in a state of poverty so bad due to WWI, most of them couldn't eat. He gave them hope. It's not like that here; I for one did not blindly follow someone with hope.
Penn state students are critical of themselves; we don't appreciate the "stupidity " that others call all the criticism they brought into this problem.
It all comes down to blatantly insulted the "wrong-doers". That's what I'm mad about. No one says anything intelligent. And most of them don't even understand the issue.
that's what happened though, someone was told to fix the problem and it never happened. and that's what you're saying you would do. that makes you worse of a person than me because if I were in a position to do so, I would have taken hold of the problem and snuffed it at the core.
I know nothing about Ohio State. Since it also has a football culture-mentality, I had no doubt it wouldn't act the same if this scandal happened there.
Yes, none of you said anything until 40 kids got raped. Yes, saying nothing in the face of a rampant cultural problem is bad. What's worse is that you've instinctively and relentlessly defended the indefensible: a culture and community that is so sick and twisted that the rest of the country barely can even digest knowledge of it.
You are correct in principle. However, I notice people are (inadvertently) holding even the students accountable. I'm tired of people telling me that go to "Ped State," and I should be ashamed of myself for attending this school. That said, even IF Joe Paterno had the chance to make a move, does that make him an evil person that can be compared to Hitler?
I think we have deeply differing viewpoints on how this all happened. I think you view it as a single isolated mistake. I've tried to explain my understanding, which is that things like this are almost never isolated mistakes. In the case of PSU, it clearly wasn't, and writing it off as an isolated mistake recklessly and perhaps lazily shirks the bigger issue because that's the easy answer. And that's really unfortunate, and it tells me there's a high level of selfishness in the air at PSU.
I support a team and a culture that I know full well is corrupt in many ways. I can live with that. If it were so extreme as to accommodate rape or murder, I'd think twice about it.
I'm bashing you because you're intentionally ignoring an obvious major institutional problem to which you have yourself contributed merely by being a part of it, while instead trying to write it off as the crime of one or two individuals and thereby claim victimhood.
That's a silly argument. Run away? We had nothing to do with the scandal, personally, why should we leave? Because people think negatively of our university? For your information, ALL of us are appalled by the actions of Sandusky and the Board of Trustees. We don't support what happened, but we support our fellow students and football players because they had nothing to do with this mess. The university has to stand together in hard times, not break apart and flee like spineless groundhogs.
I think that's true, but the whole issue is a lot bigger than that. On a base level, yeah, one person fucks up so everyone gets punished is a terrible way to operate. But societies are also very fragile. I think it is everyone's duty to contribute to shaping norms that are good and decent that can moderate extremes. When something like PSU culture snowballs into a twisted society, it does then become the responsibility of every member to do his small part to fix it. It becomes a societal issue.
You don't know that, do you? You speak for everyone there? You know what all the people there are thinking at all times? You can't say that for sure because you don't know. We didn't know there were people here capable of doing such horrible things.
I understand where you're coming from. I would love to debate with you, and I did enjoy the debate we had, however I have an exam tomorrow morning and a lot of things to take care of between now and then! I think we can agree live civil humans to call it a draw? What do you think? Don't worry about the insults, in a way it's part of a good debate.
mark may is being one hell of a monday mornng quaterback saying how he would have handled the situation if he were mike mcqueary. it's easy to say that, but nobody knows how they'd handle something so shocking.
You wouldn't know. I think there's a certain level of pride associated with defending one's school being whatever the crime, and you've also demonstrated that tonight. so what's your point? you haven't proven to me that anything I did was wrong.
I'm not a private investigator. I don't know the details of every second for the individuals immediately involved. If your assertion is that I'm criticizing you but assume someone like Mike McQueary is innocent, I'm most certainly not. But as I've said over and other it's not about the minutia of individual people. It's about a huge and perverse cultural problem in State College that, for some bizarre reason, is propagated by people like you who continue to irrationally defend it, and yourself.
I understand you are pissed off at me, but I really do have a point here, and I wouldn't be on here annoying the hell out of you if it were just an effort to troll you. I really do see this as a moral imperative, and you've chosen what I see as a very cowardly side of that choice. I'm happy to have the full debate with you, but I think we need to either agree to stop now, or both be a bit more civil. I'll stop with the insults, but I need you to stop as well or otherwise we can just quit now.
Loud and clear. Black and white. Point Made. No clutter, confusion, football rants...you hit the nail on the head. Thanks for saying what millions think.
This is the ONE time, that I completely agree with Mark May. Preach it Mark.
Yes, except we don't know the history of McQueary at PSU. He could have easily been assaulted at the institution when he was there. PSU was wrong for having him coach the next game. But I can't blame MQueary for not stepping in because he could have some victim's guilt from that happening to him. It is easy for me to say I would step it and beat the shit out of Sandusky. But we all don't know everything that happened. The shame of McQueary and everything else that came with it. But I agree with May on 99.99% of this. And 110% that McQueary needed to be separated for the program. As a witness, as a former player, being directly involved...etc. It is inexplicable he was still there.
@@astubbornmick9656 6 years?
@@carywhitt how long after the video was produced was your comment?
@@astubbornmick9656 Not 6 years. 😳
@@astubbornmick9656 He's womanizer...he cheated on his ex wife with every women in town
Joe Paterno: '' HEAVY IS THE HEAD THAT WEARS THE CROWN '' !
This whole thing started in 1976 if this is true wow
McQuery could have called the police immediately
As an Ohio State fan I despise Mark May, but this is one of the few times I agreed with him.
Thank you. I laughed my ass off during that episode of Seinfeld.
Mark May. You sum up how I feel about this 100%. They need to clean house.
Okay let me defend McQuerry for a second okay let’s say you find something horrific, you don’t know what to do you call the person you trust more than anyone he trust his dad. Know his dad didn’t know would paterno would just pass the Buck. There is no good people in this situation, there is no winner now if I was McQuerry I would break it up first and when the situation is cleared then go to the person I trust most after something was done.
Football culture can get out of hand very quickly when there is no oversight. Ohio State is at least a large enough media market in a large city that there is some level of moderation that tempers the intensity. At Penn State there is no such moderating force.
Probably, but the point is that a scandal like this wouldn't happen there. Ohio State's culture runs deep, but it's tempered by a few moderating factors. If it got as extreme and perverted as Penn State's, I'd do my best to run away quickly, as long as I recognized it in time. I pray that I don't end up in the same brainwashed, demented state as most Penn State fans defending something truly disgusting.
But the core of the problem is the existence of Penn State culture itself right now. As I see it, the perversion has become so deeply linked with the culture that there's really no separating them now. And you're there. You've chosen to be part of the culture rather than to disown it. You're just one person, but that doesn't mean you didn't have an important choice to make. And you chose to do nothing.
The defense you just gave is the same defense that the Paterno defenders offered. you've asserted that you aren't part of the football culture, and thus this has nothing to do with you. That's weak, a lame defense. There are two options that would have allowed you to save your dignity: 1) run as far and as fast away from PSU as you can. OR 2) Work with every ounce in your body to change the culture. You haven't done either, and that makes you as guilty as the rest.
Keep in mind, at the time, Sandusky was a semi-deity in Happy
Valley. McQueary was a young man, and I'm sure that he was
intimidated by Sandusky. McQueary went through channels, and
I don't fault him for that. Joe Paterno quashed the matter. If we're
going to blame anybody else, let's look at "holier than thou" Joe.
avaxtakaka Lucky for Joe Pa that he died before he could face justice. Joe Pa was a practicing Catholic so he probably died believing that he would be held accountable by his maker.
Those were some enormous leaps you just made in your comment...."People like me"....to "large issues in this country" to being "sad when we vote" to "you are an insecure person". There's an eerie similarity between your apparent remarkable ability to reconcile such huge and obscure leaps in logic like those you just asserted and the remarkable twisting of understanding that's been taken up by the people who have stuck with Penn State through all of this.
The Steubenville high school case is eerily similar right now.
As a man who truly despised Penn State as a commentator, Mark May is right on this one. Mike McQuery should have never been allowed to stay at the time. He was perhaps the most culpable and cowardly for not doing anything, when he allegedly heard and saw Sandusky in the shower with the boy victim, but walked away without confronting the alleged crime. Nuff said.
I'm not sure what you mean by "stick with". I cheer for their teams to win, and beyond that am unassociated with the state or the school. Given that the OSU scandal was contained to rule violations within the sports, and not a greater institutional moral issue, I was disappointed it happened because I assumed the athletic department leadership would be better at covering up rule violations than they were. It shook my fandom for a time because it caused the teams to win less, temporarily.
Mark May has good values
he was like 90 when he died. life destroyed my ass. 90 years of an awesome life. get real.
Much respect to Mark May..NO respect to Franco Harris who was upset they fired Paterno.
The problem wasn't Sandusky and McQueary. In fact, that's a laughably idiotic statement. It's like applying a band aid and saying you've cured the cancer.
Mark May, you were right.
Narrator: he was not
Will you run from every place in which a huge problem occurs? If you do, you'll have no where left to go, if that's how you handle your problems.
Really, even the students? Because ALL of us knew?
I'm a student here, and I didn't even know who Sandusky was until this scandal. Get real.
Why did the NCAA rescind Penn State's sanctions after only 1 year given the heinous nature of these offenses? When SMU gets the death penalty and USC loses 30 sholarships because Reggie Bush's stepdad accepts a house it is hard to have any respect for the NCAA.
Oscar Banuelos that was the problem i had with this entire issue but if I was Mike mcquerry I would have done the same thing I would have beaten him up first but second thing is that you saw ur hero fuck a child a lot of people would have done what that wr coach did
It's not your "fault" so much as it's a choice you've made that I see as cowardly and indefensible.
@avaxtakaka not quite. My comment was mainly in reference to violent crimes, especially those involving children. When it comes to child abuse, I'm a firm believer that if you're not a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem.
Should Mcqueary be charged with child abuse? No. However, the school has a responsibility to hold staff accountable for all actions (or lack thereof) that perpetuate criminal activity.
No one has said it better so far than Mark May!!!... His comments are my feelings to a T.
You're obviously not critical of yourselves, though. You can't act as though you are and then offer no evidence for it. Otherwise you would have left the school long ago.
The media, unfortunately, hasn't talked about PSU in months. I wish they would, because like with so many things the media covers, once the glitzy story disappears they disappear. Unfortunately at PSU the core problems still persist, but those aren't fun for the media to cover.
Land Speculation yep and it still exists there to this day which is why I hate penn state.
No, but I think everyone must still fault the Germans who stood idly by. They're not innocent. I don't expect every one of them to have been a martyr, but I would expect them afterward to disown themselves and feel bad that they were there as it happened. Nearly every German who knew what was right, and knew what was going on, now feels terrible that they stood by before, during, and after.
That's exactly the problem, though, and I'm still unclear why you don't get it. It doesn't matter if you're appalled at Sandusky or the board. The issue wasn't what they did....that was obviously bad and indefensible. The root cause was the very culture you are a part of....the sort of place that inherently expects a level of accommodation for things like that. PSU "standing together" is exactly the problem. The more that term gets thrown around, the sicker everyone else gets about it.
There are a couple of points here, the first of which is that it's not really about whether you actively did anything wrong. In the aftermath, you've willfully sided with something that is institutionally terrible, and that is what I see as most wrong about what you've done. But that aside, most certainly you contributed to the lead-up. In your own small way, but no doubt you contributed.
I certainly don't think others are perfect. And when it's written, it's called libel. Slander is verbal. But no, none of it's "false". A lot of it is based on assumptions, but none of it is "false".
That's quite a scary reality, don't you think?
The players are not to blame for all this.
It’s even more sick since his wife says he’s not guilty… that witch deserves to be in prison with him.
Way to Go Mark
Then fix it. Don't stand around diddling and saying it's not your fault. Man up and take some fucking responsibility.
How was the Attorney General involved in this case?
and THAT my dear friend is how most of us feel. I can just as easily bash something that isn't mine.
I can't stand Mark May under normal circumstances. There is nothing normal about this situation. I tip my hat to Mr. May for what he said. I will from now on view this man differently.
Where I come from, when something is broken, you fix it.
Yes, but those two things also have nothing to do with one another and I'm not sure why you're trying to connect them. You obviously fail to understand the point that everyone outside of State College has been trying to direct in your direction for the last year and a half, and that in itself vindicates our point.
Yes, unless those opinions intentionally harm another human being or incite panic.
The problem's been fixed. Sandusky is in prison. McQueary got fired. What's the problem? People like you can't let it go. Apologies have been made, the board have been replaced.
No, but it's a bigger issue than that. You can't look at it at the level of yourself as an individual. You have to think in terms of a bigger picture. It's a culture that is truly problematic to an irreconcilable level. You have the choice as an individual to be a part of that or not. Your individual decision won't change it, but it's a moral imperative that you pick a side, and by sticking around you've affirmed that you're ok with that culture. That's my problem with individuals like you.
I agree; he knows when to be serious and what's actually important.
I lost all respect for Penn State after this scandal
No, I'm better than you because I recognize that I'm a coward, and that I at least wouldn't stand by and say it's ok. I'd probably run away and tell someone else to fix it. I'm an imperfect person, but I'm not so delusional to assume that just because I was there and I view myself as a good person that I didn't contribute to something terrible.
You jumped right into attack mode. You wrote off my logic before you even knew what it was, as I'm assuming you likely also wrote off all logic that has been critical of Penn State. It's really bizarre how defensive the PSU folks have been in all of this, and it screams to me that you likely do realize there's something much bigger that's awry at Penn State.
Says the man who was arrested twice for DUI's as an adult. Also, arrested as a college student for inciting a riot, jumping on cars, threatening police officers, encouraging others to attack the police. He who is without sin cast the first stone !
You’re seriously comparing all of that to children being sexually assaulted, really? I’m not condoning any of that nonsense, but as long as nobody was seriously injured or killed I could forgive all that, especially since it was a young kid who did it. I will NEVER forgive a grown ass man sexually molesting children
And you should understand that too. Ohio staff members aren't innocent. It's an understanding that people can do horrible things.
we stand together for our name, not for the people that screwed up.
I'm a student, that makes me associated with the university. What is this point that you guys try to direct in our direction? The only point I get is being told I'm a disgrace for still attending my school, and having my degree's value diminished.
But the same problem here still comes up. The majority of people are still punished for the mistakes of the few. That's the real crime here! this happens all the time!
trying to ruin someone's life? that's an absurd claim. i'm not sure what "blindly following the media" even means, but i can assure you that is certainly not what i am doing.
It had to do with bribery. Bribery is a no-no and morally wrong.
Actually that's pretty much exactly what happens in small towns that get obsessed with football. Football gives them hope, something to grow attached to, and that attachment can twist morals in amazing ways. In your case, it's not that you were a football fanatic, but you also didn't have to be. PSU is a cultural entity. You fed it, and continue to feed it, and so long as it exists unchanged it will permit the same perversions.
That's what you don't understand. Not EVERYONE is like that. The whole school is not all about football.
I can’t stand Mark May he’s right in my opinion Joe Pa got blasted for the cover up & not doing more but other then Jerry Sandusky Mike McQuirey was the worst one here cause he saw an assault happening I would probably have gotten my ass kicked & fired but I would have done my best to stop it. I don’t need to go home & talk to my dad about sexual assault of a child being wrong. I’m amazed how Mike McQuirey didn’t suffer more media backlash then he did cause he saw something.
This was the first time I felt Mark 100%
We just exist here, in the midst of a scandal that we had no part in. I was here before it happened. It has nothing to do with my integrity as a person. I'm not staff.
People followed hitler blindly because they were in a state of poverty so bad due to WWI, most of them couldn't eat. He gave them hope.
It's not like that here; I for one did not blindly follow someone with hope.
Penn state students are critical of themselves; we don't appreciate the "stupidity " that others call all the criticism they brought into this problem.
It all comes down to blatantly insulted the "wrong-doers". That's what I'm mad about. No one says anything intelligent. And most of them don't even understand the issue.
that's what happened though, someone was told to fix the problem and it never happened. and that's what you're saying you would do. that makes you worse of a person than me because if I were in a position to do so, I would have taken hold of the problem and snuffed it at the core.
I know nothing about Ohio State.
Since it also has a football culture-mentality, I had no doubt it wouldn't act the same if this scandal happened there.
We're not responsible for the poor actions of the trustees and sandusky. I'm not their mother; leaving the university won't fix what happened.
I never said that it was "ok".
and honestly, no one will remember this scandal in a years time.
I do! Plenty of victims do as well
The university should not cease to exist for a mistake.
For the name on my degree. It's not my culture, I'm an individual. And I will not be grouped in with those who made the error of doing what they did.
Yes, none of you said anything until 40 kids got raped. Yes, saying nothing in the face of a rampant cultural problem is bad. What's worse is that you've instinctively and relentlessly defended the indefensible: a culture and community that is so sick and twisted that the rest of the country barely can even digest knowledge of it.
Calling me a gay boy? I don't go around stalking random guys on the internet. :)
I care nothing for Bill O'Brien. I have no ties to football, I told you. But it won't happen again.
What happened there? I haven't even heard of it.
That's a selfish view, but you're entitled to it.
You are correct in principle. However, I notice people are (inadvertently) holding even the students accountable. I'm tired of people telling me that go to "Ped State," and I should be ashamed of myself for attending this school. That said, even IF Joe Paterno had the chance to make a move, does that make him an evil person that can be compared to Hitler?
That's good. Weak and cowardly, but good.
I think we have deeply differing viewpoints on how this all happened. I think you view it as a single isolated mistake. I've tried to explain my understanding, which is that things like this are almost never isolated mistakes. In the case of PSU, it clearly wasn't, and writing it off as an isolated mistake recklessly and perhaps lazily shirks the bigger issue because that's the easy answer. And that's really unfortunate, and it tells me there's a high level of selfishness in the air at PSU.
There are some things that people have no control over; there is nothing I can do to change what happened. Just to move in a direction to fix it.
why?
I support a team and a culture that I know full well is corrupt in many ways. I can live with that. If it were so extreme as to accommodate rape or murder, I'd think twice about it.
way to speak up Mark. my prayers to the victims. Hail to Pitt!!
I'm bashing you because you're intentionally ignoring an obvious major institutional problem to which you have yourself contributed merely by being a part of it, while instead trying to write it off as the crime of one or two individuals and thereby claim victimhood.
That's a silly argument. Run away? We had nothing to do with the scandal, personally, why should we leave? Because people think negatively of our university?
For your information, ALL of us are appalled by the actions of Sandusky and the Board of Trustees. We don't support what happened, but we support our fellow students and football players because they had nothing to do with this mess. The university has to stand together in hard times, not break apart and flee like spineless groundhogs.
I think that's true, but the whole issue is a lot bigger than that. On a base level, yeah, one person fucks up so everyone gets punished is a terrible way to operate. But societies are also very fragile. I think it is everyone's duty to contribute to shaping norms that are good and decent that can moderate extremes. When something like PSU culture snowballs into a twisted society, it does then become the responsibility of every member to do his small part to fix it. It becomes a societal issue.
If ANYTHING people like YOU are more eager to say something negative about Penn State. None of us said anything until others started insulting us.
You don't know that, do you? You speak for everyone there? You know what all the people there are thinking at all times?
You can't say that for sure because you don't know. We didn't know there were people here capable of doing such horrible things.
I understand where you're coming from. I would love to debate with you, and I did enjoy the debate we had, however I have an exam tomorrow morning and a lot of things to take care of between now and then! I think we can agree live civil humans to call it a draw? What do you think? Don't worry about the insults, in a way it's part of a good debate.
That's like grouping in all germans with hitler. you'd never do that, would you?
You agree; but will you change it? no. that means you're as guilty as me if that's what you claim.
mark may is being one hell of a monday mornng quaterback saying how he would have handled the situation if he were mike mcqueary. it's easy to say that, but nobody knows how they'd handle something so shocking.
But as you said, everyone is entitled to their opinions.
You wouldn't know. I think there's a certain level of pride associated with defending one's school being whatever the crime, and you've also demonstrated that tonight. so what's your point?
you haven't proven to me that anything I did was wrong.
Did you stick with Ohio State through their scandal too?
I'm not a private investigator. I don't know the details of every second for the individuals immediately involved. If your assertion is that I'm criticizing you but assume someone like Mike McQueary is innocent, I'm most certainly not. But as I've said over and other it's not about the minutia of individual people. It's about a huge and perverse cultural problem in State College that, for some bizarre reason, is propagated by people like you who continue to irrationally defend it, and yourself.
You are; you claim I do by just being a member of this university. isn't that what you said? it's my fault because I'm here?
I understand you are pissed off at me, but I really do have a point here, and I wouldn't be on here annoying the hell out of you if it were just an effort to troll you. I really do see this as a moral imperative, and you've chosen what I see as a very cowardly side of that choice. I'm happy to have the full debate with you, but I think we need to either agree to stop now, or both be a bit more civil. I'll stop with the insults, but I need you to stop as well or otherwise we can just quit now.
@angryamerican Wow I messed that up... Held the phone conversation dealing with the Syracuse scandal that should have read