timmy literally says the miorby was assuming the intent behind his actions and that is bad, but then proceeds to assume the intent behind sue’s actions
And yet he still ignored the main point of the response video: What is the accountability he wants? What does he want Susan to do? Also, the last few minutes were just...so childish.
I might have missed it, but I'm also curious why ONLY the mom? Is it because she did the TED talk? He had a dad. So this is kind of interesting; even if you google the dad, Thomas Klebold, Sue's wiki is one of the first results.
@@xelectrixYep. After studying the case alot I've come to see that Sue is one of the few parents in the history of these incidents that HAS come out and taken accountability. Because of that the people that just want someone to throw their frustration at since the culprits are gone use Sue as an easy target, I agreed far more with this side of the argument after watching both sides and even being misled by the original piece
It seems like Timmy thinks she should have been able to predict Columbine and throw herself in front of Dylan’s gun despite being deliberately kept in the dark. It’s like blaming the airport where the terrorists who committed 9/11 got on board. They definitely should’ve been more vigilant but also how the fuck could they have seen that coming?
so mad, I was thinking about this earlier this week and looked to see if he made a response. Then I saw Miorby's second video and his comment about the video being deleted before he put his response up, and I had to find a version of it somewhere@@mollymyers4173
I'm annoyed by the fact that people act as if this didn't happen in 1999 and was one of the first major mass shootings. So yes, how would you know/assume that your child would do this?
Agreed. If you listen to older people talk about pre and post incident the feeling was very distinct. Before it happened, everyone sort of knew it had happened before and was a possibility but you weren't really worried too much about it happening to you, but after 99 both students and parents are constantly aware and in fear of something like this happening to their families...
I graduated in 95, so I was still young enough that high school wasn't a far gone concept and was very into the times. What a lot of folks will simply say is how it's not one of the first shootings and therefore that shouldn't be used to excuse her ignorance. However, to put it succinctly, it was the first to receive the immediacy of modern media. Everyone knew it all at once and immediately as it happened. They didn't find out in tomorrow's paper or during the evening news, and then, only if you happened to absorb either of those two mediums. No. This was interrupted broadcasts, this was early internet blogs and forwarded email chains with the articles. Everyone spoke about this like none had ever before. And why? Because this wasn't on anyone's radar, that's why.
Videos like this are the reason I don’t completely hate reaction channels. Cause now I can watch this video without giving this guy the views he so desperately wants.
Wow, I was not expecting him to take down his response. This is getting pretty pathetic at this point. If he's not even confident enough in his own defense to keep the response video up for longer than 48 hours then I don't see why he doesn't just delete the original video. No one would be talking about Timmy right now if he just swallowed his pride and deleted his initial video, or even if he just remade the video with more honest reporting. It's not like he's isn't entitled to his opinion. Hell, he would have had a better time if he didn't do the right thing and just ignored the criticism all together. But he chose to fight, and then he chose to hide that fight. That tells you about all you need to know about where he's coming from.
I don’t get this guys fixation with Sue Klebold. I’m still not convinced that the tragedy was her doing in any way, shape, or form. So why did Timmy target her like this, for no apparent reason? Does he get off on ripping unsuspecting people to shreds just so he can feel better about himself?
She's basically building a career and brand around being the mother of the most famous school shooter in history. Whatever you want to say about Timmy, that's pretty messed-up, and it's kinda messed-up that people are like "Oh, she deserves a second chance, she did nothing wrong." But, that's the problem. She did nothing, and she was the closest person to Dylan, yet despite being told about the website, the pipe bombs, not the journals but was told that Eric Harris was a dangerous kid that other parents didn't want their children hanging around with, she did nothing. She let him drink and smoke heavily in her house as well, and her other son turned out bad as well. She was absolutely a very neglectful parent, and she should not be encouraged to continue building a brand for herself around the atrocious actions her son did. Honestly, this pro-Sue Klebold thing gives me flashbacks to when John Swan tried to do a pro-Onision thing and build a whole community supporting Onision in the fight against the evil Chris Hansen. That community kinda ended when people realised "Hey, uh, wait. Are we really supporting Onision over Chris Hansen? What's wrong with us?" which I think is gonna happen here when people are like "Wait, are we really saying that the mother of one of the Columbine shooters was a good mother that did nothing wrong, and encouraging her to continue to build a career around being the mother of a school shooter? What's wrong with us?"
@@qty1315She wasn't told about any of that. She was specifically not told. The friends parents told the school and the police and that was it. There is video of them saying this. Timmy flat out lied about that.
That's what I don't understand either. I understand not liking Sue Klebold, everyone can have their opinion. All the things he said about her are things I've heard other people say before. Except these people don't go out of their way and spend time and effort to maliciously misrepresent information to try to paint her in a certain light to get other people on board the Sue hate train like Timmy.
She was not told about the journals, tapes, websites or pipe bomb until after the shooting, you have been misinformed. As well, she donated the proceeds of her book and was not paid for the ted talk. As well, she DID try to prevent her son from hanging out with the other shooter by forbidding him from doing so, but this proved difficult since they went to the same school. This is why people are mad at Timmy, because he did not represent the actions she took fairly.@@qty1315
timmy2cents is so hell bent on this point it’s actually odd lol well, i guess we’ll see what kind of parent he turns out to be, seeing as he wants to be the arbiter of good parenting and whatnot. he’s also COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that when Columbine happened, school shootings were nowhere near as common as they are now. Columbine certainly wasn’t the first incident, but it was one of few incidents compared to what we have today. people just weren’t thinking about that kind of crime so much and as such, they weren’t looking at their kids’ behavior for red flags of becoming a school shooter. and the internet was relatively new at the time, so Sue not knowing about that website is PERFECTLY REASONABLE given that no one told her about it and back then, everybody didn’t have four different personal webpages up and running at the same time like we do now (social media), it simply wasn’t a part of the culture of the day to look up your kids on the internet to see what they were doing. my parents were strict af about my internet usage and even they didn’t know about all the dumb little geocities websites i used to make about my favorite bands and whatnot lol. Timmy is trying to interpret Sue and her son and Columbine through a modern-day lens, just completely taking it for granted that she should have known all these things and recognized all the signs her son was showing despite the fact that there just wasn’t as much known about school shootings back then bc it wasn’t happening as much. we have the benefit of decades of research now and advanced understanding of child psychology and what the signs are that parents should be looking for that their child is at risk of becoming a shooter. Sue didn’t have all that and she is still taking accountability for the things that she reasonably could have known and seen but simply missed bc she loved her kid and probably thought too highly of him in spite of his bad behavior to ever conceive of the idea that he could become a mass killer. any parent is going to give their child more credit than to assume that they’re harboring violent, evil thoughts unless they’ve already displayed a history of violent behaviors. i’m sure she could have done better, we all can, but she did the best she could with what she had at the time and is still trying to reach people to encourage them to be more vigilant since she no longer has the opportunity, fully knowing that people like Timmy are going to come out and pick her apart and shit all over her as she’s continuing to work through the worst thing that’s ever happened in her life. i’d say that’s taking accountability.
Timmy's argument that he never SAID Sue knew about the website and the videos, as if it is unreasonable to infer that from him saying Judy knew about Erics website and that Judy warned Sue about Eric being dangerous while knowing about the website and threats, is such a ridiculously weasel take. I'm not surprised he took the video down. It's like if I said "Bob has no black friends in his facebook photos; Bob's great-uncle happened to be part of the KKK" and then go "BUT I NEVER SAID THAT" if someone said 'hey, pointing out that Bob doesn't have black friends in his facebook photos and has a family member in the KKK seems to be implying Bob is a racist.' You do not need to LITERALLY SAY THE WORDS to be making the point. It's why people go absolutely insane if you say 'Make America Great Again.' What, do you have a problem with America being great? Timmy is just mad Miorby has some basic media literacy.
@@TheRoosterofDoomyeah I think just under 48 hours. Then added a pinned comment to the original video with “corrections”. Timmy is hell bent on trying to ignore this.
Thank you for reacting to his video because now, my comment calling him out is lost now that he has privated this video. Timmy finds the benefit of hindsight absolutely glorious.
Love how he skipped over the part where Sue literally grounded Dylan with the condition he wasnt allowed to see Eric 😂 Edit - nevermind its even worse he tried to make that part support his position with weasel words 😂
I know this isn't the main point, but Timmy is really bad at hiding how dogshit his arguments are. He goes from emphatically, definitively saying that that one guy "was the first person in history to correctly threat assess a modern school shooter" to basically goin "Awe geez well he knew Dylan was gonna harm his kid in some way, so yknow he DID assess a threat!" Edit: I just finished the video and noticed the very convenient fact that Timmy says that all he ever did was claim that Sue is a bad mom, while conveniently leaving out all the times he claimed she was a narcissist banking on the tragedy for personal gain, in basically those exact words.
21:30 it’s irrelevant whether or not she had a robust understanding of psychology given that even therapists and psychiatrists need professionals to help them with their own mental health issues and that family members can be a blind spot… therapists do not treat their own children and when they do they probably often overcorrect or overlook behaviors due to parental bias in other words being a therapist doesn’t automatically mean you can predict whether or not your son will shoot up a school and also, to build on what i think you’re already saying here, child educators aren’t qualified to diagnose children like timmy2cents isn’t even acknowledging the fact he never established that she was an art therapist-i also don’t think he is now stating that she “taught psychology to kids” rather he seems to think that regular teachers who teach regular curriculum to children are automatically psychologists
Pretty sure he deleted or privated the video. I was really eager to see what the community feedback was gonna be. I think anyone with basic level of understanding and contextualization could understand what Sue was trying to say. So crazy this guy decided to double down like this
it was rough... i commented saying he should at least read the fuking book before slandering someone involved in such a horrific tragedy and it got like 50 likes pretty quickly, literally no one was on his side
Yeah nobody was on his side. From what i remember people were putting blame to both miorby and timmy, but they were more sided with miorby. People also were calling him out even further.
Also, at the time school ahootings were fairly unknown and due to the more primitive technology it didnt apread much before. They were local events and never sensationalized liked columnbine, at the time it was uninaginable that a kid would do shit like that.
bahahaha - I had to turn the off when I was on my own because I couldn't stomach it. It's super funny with you! Thanks. This is unbearable without you Papa. I agree with everything you are saying so far! subbed. Timmy should just apologise and fade away quietly. I find Sue's insight very valuable. I don't have any particular opinion about her as a person at all. But she doesn't deserve this dude slandering her. This dude thinks he has more to offer than her. What a joke! Someone was also trying to link this dudes video to Sue's book's wiki page. smh. He compares his three weeks of research to her decades of introspection and processing and thinks he knows best.
I forgot that this is the same guy that did the wiggle video. That was such a great video. Maybe he should use his sociology degree to find out where he went wrong with his content and his ego.
This guy & his fam went to the same church I went to growing up in the early 2000s … it’s odd seeing him pop up in my TH-cam feed. Hope he’s doing alright these days aside from this spat.
I watched the video like 16 hours after it came out. Went back to see the like-dislike ratio and it's gone? Did he delete it? Man's must have been getting reamed in the comments and realized it was over for him
He has a popular gaming channel and this was his attempt at branching out to commentary. I'm going to suggest to him that he sticks to escape to Tarkov videos 😂
Just as you said - whether you like Sue or not is irrelevant. I read her book and while I was glad she wrote the book as a footnote to the Columbine case, I did have problems with the book. I watched the video by Timmy2cents, and I was very off put by it. It felt very unfair and his "nice guy" demeanor and all that just added to it. it just felt very disingenuous and maniplative and then that other guy made a response video and I stayed up to date on the whole thing for 2 months or so. In his video, he does say bullying, the police, etc were a part of it, but then DOWNPLAYS it and even says calls Sue Klebold's parenting the most signifant reason for Columbine. Which is not only insane but laughably wrong.He also admitted at one point that he holds her up to a higher standard. Which again is insane and unreasonable. First off, from my understanding the worse person to diagnosis a family member is another family member. So that blows that argument out of the water even if she had a degree in psychiatry [which she didn't] and from what she knew and from the outside looking in - I can't find a single reason as to why she should of known this would of happened. I ask my self "Would I of known?" and the answer is no and EVERYONE agrees. Every single person who knew them was not at all shocked at Eric's involvement, but they were absolutely dumb founded when they heard Dylan was involved. Brookes Brown said when they named Dylan as the second shooter "That floored me." His parents who knew about the website, knew what a danger Eric Harris was, etc they have also admitted "it's hard for me to still believe Dylan was involved." Not only did Sue not see it, but those with BETTER F**KING INFORMATION then she had were shocked by it. I mean, what did she know? That her son vandalized a locker because he was bullied, was being bullied, stole from a van, hung out with a friend who got him into minor trouble, smoked a joint with his brother.....THAT IS LITERALLY IT. So that makes me ask the question "if your son broke into a van, committed theft, did drugs....are you gonna assume he's gonna COMMIT MASS MURDER?!" If so, then your out of your mind Timmy2cents!!!! This would be like blaming John Wayne Gacy's wife, mother, and sister for "not knowing" Gacy was a serial killer because "The smell from the crawlspace, Gacy hiring only teenage boys for his company, and homosexual magazines." His neighbors and the police who heard his teenage victims SCREAMING in agony and pain and they called the police and the police did nothing and they did nothing. They hold far more accountability then his wife, sister, and mother. Sure, his wife suspected something. She found a mattress in his garage and saw the magazines, etc. Something fishy was going on, but probably not SERIAL MURDER. "You acknowledged that they existed, but you downplayed the severity of their mistakes." exactly and he also admitted he holds Sue to a "higher standard" because she's a parent?! And implies that we are holding her to a different standard, because she's a parent?! I don't hold Sue Klebold or any parent to a different standard. The reason why this is an issue is because YOU HAVE NO IDEA. John Wayne Gacy's father - he was heavily to blame for the murders. Gacy's father brutally beat him for the most trivial things. Richard Chase, his mother was mentally ill, abused her son, and when she caught him in the act of his vampirism when it came to animals - she didn't do anything. She also lead the police to an animal cemetery her son made, of all his animal victims when he was a child and once he was in institutionalized he was medicated and she weened him off the medication and then he went and killed 6 people to "drink their blood". She knew what he was capable of, knew what he was doing to animals, knew he was schizophrenic, got him off his pills, etc - Sue Klebold "He stole from a fan, vandalized lockers, smoked a joint.." THAT'S IT?! Now if she had actually done something wrong, then you have some argument, but Timmy2cents has nothing or little of nothing. Even if I can grant you "Should of kept him from Eric." and Timmy even goes so far as to imply "They should of just packed up and moved" LIKE THAT'S REASONABLE. LIKE EVERYONE CAN DO THAT and why move? "Because my friend told me his friend was "dangerous" but didn't give me anymore information, and because they did some minor crimes like vandalism and stealing? I'm gonna MOVE because of that?" By the way...let's take this even further...if Sue was such a bad parent and yet she didn't know a lot of things and yet she's still a bad parents regardless and she should of moved, or done this and that because "Eric was dangerous' she was told, etc......WHAT ABOUT THE ACCOUNTABILITY OF THE BROWNS?! They didn't go "Look at this website" and showed Sue Eric's website. Aren't they WORSE then Sue Klebold? Then why didn't he attack them?! ....Oh because she isn't the killer's parent. That's why. "You suggested the argument. Which is what a lot of his video is full of. Suggestions." Exactly, which is what makes it so sleazy and dishonest. Doesn't f**king matter if you explicitly said it. You implied it and you omitted context. This is going "Hey, Tony. Go and take care of this for me." and then when charged with murder and the recording is played in court going "I didn't tell Tony to kill him." "it's just lawyer speak and it just makes perfect sense" Exactly. I made this same point. There is a difference between First agree murder, second degree murder, and third degree murder and apparently Timmy2cents would seem to go "Wrong, they f**king committed a felony. That's downplaying the crime." No it isn't.
How does he nit realize he is making the argument from hindsight. I was more willing to give Timmy a pass when he and Miorby had their convo. I don't like how Miorby handled it, but this response was awful. Also, his seatbelt analogy at the end was goofy. You can still die in an accident while wearing a seatbelt too. Turns out it isn't the only factor in whether or not tragedy happens....
25:22 This whole point he makes about Sue "seeing wounds on her son that she wishes she could fix" literally makes no sense for the point hes try to make, being that Sue thinks her son was just always like this from birth. Because if he had basic middle school reading comprehension he'd understand that its widely understood a "wound" is generally inflicted upon someone and not just there from birth, which you'd rather describe as a "disfigurement" or something to that effect. With that being said it wouldn't even matter since we as a society understand people can be predisposed to mental illness from birth due to a number of biological factors. This guys just an idiot across all subjects, from linguistics to sociology.
Also the locker shit is a good example of the narrative of he's trying to push Miorby pointed out specifically that Dylan only had 2 incidents on his criminal record, keyword there is Criminal, the locker hacking shiz never went past expelled from school it wasn't a criminal offense on his criminal record
i fear that timmy's narrative will set back the conversation regarding school shooters. i think we are finally comfortable enough to frame the epidemic of mass shootings as a cultural and political issue rather than an individual issue, but timmy insists that sue's individual parenting is the issue. this does nothing to address how we frame masculinity and violence, gun control, etc. i don't think he realizes how damaging is video really is.
How could she have known that her son was going to go as far as he did then? Just because she could have realized that he is depressed, he did his best to hide his plans from her. There was literally nothing left for her to make that inference that her son was going to do something that horrific. If she couldn't make that conclusion, how could she have stopped it from happening?
@@Chaos-om4oh I don’t disagree it’s just everything she says papa gut is taking in the most charitable light possible. He was reaching so hard on some of the statements
@@Absorbedtoast I recommend taking a look at Miorby's videos on Timmy2cents original video to get a better understanding of why Papa Gut is being very defensive of Sue Klebold. Timmy2cents lied and omit information that might change your point of view on this. Plus, that's really who Timmy2Cents making the video about so that context is important
@@Chaos-om4oh They did not hide their plans. I suggest you take a look at the evidence. There were several substantial cries for help that went unnoticed by a teacher and another parent. There was a lot of homicidal ideation. Harris was quite disturbed, it sounds like the family life was harsh and perhaps overly regimented. Klebold suffered from depression, but did have a girlfriend. The boys had a couple skirmishes, but the “relentless bullying” thing is a myth meant to explain that without any singular explanation. It was a perfect storm, the boys’ worked on each other as have other murderous pairings have done. There’s been a lot of FBI analysis of the case.
timmy literally says the miorby was assuming the intent behind his actions and that is bad, but then proceeds to assume the intent behind sue’s actions
And yet he still ignored the main point of the response video: What is the accountability he wants? What does he want Susan to do? Also, the last few minutes were just...so childish.
I might have missed it, but I'm also curious why ONLY the mom? Is it because she did the TED talk? He had a dad.
So this is kind of interesting; even if you google the dad, Thomas Klebold, Sue's wiki is one of the first results.
@@xelectrixYep. After studying the case alot I've come to see that Sue is one of the few parents in the history of these incidents that HAS come out and taken accountability. Because of that the people that just want someone to throw their frustration at since the culprits are gone use Sue as an easy target, I agreed far more with this side of the argument after watching both sides and even being misled by the original piece
It seems like Timmy thinks she should have been able to predict Columbine and throw herself in front of Dylan’s gun despite being deliberately kept in the dark.
It’s like blaming the airport where the terrorists who committed 9/11 got on board. They definitely should’ve been more vigilant but also how the fuck could they have seen that coming?
Timmy already privated the video... the guy is a joke. So disingenuous.
literally! i wanted to see the comments and it’s already gone!
@mollymyers4173 most of them were trashing his points even further
soft
@@pinkguy0 that’s good to know. if only i could’ve gotten to read them and cackle
so mad, I was thinking about this earlier this week and looked to see if he made a response. Then I saw Miorby's second video and his comment about the video being deleted before he put his response up, and I had to find a version of it somewhere@@mollymyers4173
I'm annoyed by the fact that people act as if this didn't happen in 1999 and was one of the first major mass shootings. So yes, how would you know/assume that your child would do this?
EXACTLY
Agreed. If you listen to older people talk about pre and post incident the feeling was very distinct. Before it happened, everyone sort of knew it had happened before and was a possibility but you weren't really worried too much about it happening to you, but after 99 both students and parents are constantly aware and in fear of something like this happening to their families...
I graduated in 95, so I was still young enough that high school wasn't a far gone concept and was very into the times.
What a lot of folks will simply say is how it's not one of the first shootings and therefore that shouldn't be used to excuse her ignorance.
However, to put it succinctly, it was the first to receive the immediacy of modern media. Everyone knew it all at once and immediately as it happened. They didn't find out in tomorrow's paper or during the evening news, and then, only if you happened to absorb either of those two mediums. No. This was interrupted broadcasts, this was early internet blogs and forwarded email chains with the articles. Everyone spoke about this like none had ever before. And why? Because this wasn't on anyone's radar, that's why.
Videos like this are the reason I don’t completely hate reaction channels. Cause now I can watch this video without giving this guy the views he so desperately wants.
“She’s a teacher at Harvard”
“Oh so she’s a lawyer? WOW! She should have known the law better”
“I never implied she was a law professor”
🤦🏻♂️
Timmy "I use out of context evidence to make bad points to support the narrative I already believe" 2 cents
Wow, I was not expecting him to take down his response. This is getting pretty pathetic at this point. If he's not even confident enough in his own defense to keep the response video up for longer than 48 hours then I don't see why he doesn't just delete the original video. No one would be talking about Timmy right now if he just swallowed his pride and deleted his initial video, or even if he just remade the video with more honest reporting. It's not like he's isn't entitled to his opinion. Hell, he would have had a better time if he didn't do the right thing and just ignored the criticism all together. But he chose to fight, and then he chose to hide that fight. That tells you about all you need to know about where he's coming from.
I don’t get this guys fixation with Sue Klebold. I’m still not convinced that the tragedy was her doing in any way, shape, or form. So why did Timmy target her like this, for no apparent reason? Does he get off on ripping unsuspecting people to shreds just so he can feel better about himself?
I think he might just genuinely be stupid
She's basically building a career and brand around being the mother of the most famous school shooter in history.
Whatever you want to say about Timmy, that's pretty messed-up, and it's kinda messed-up that people are like "Oh, she deserves a second chance, she did nothing wrong."
But, that's the problem. She did nothing, and she was the closest person to Dylan, yet despite being told about the website, the pipe bombs, not the journals but was told that Eric Harris was a dangerous kid that other parents didn't want their children hanging around with, she did nothing. She let him drink and smoke heavily in her house as well, and her other son turned out bad as well.
She was absolutely a very neglectful parent, and she should not be encouraged to continue building a brand for herself around the atrocious actions her son did.
Honestly, this pro-Sue Klebold thing gives me flashbacks to when John Swan tried to do a pro-Onision thing and build a whole community supporting Onision in the fight against the evil Chris Hansen. That community kinda ended when people realised "Hey, uh, wait. Are we really supporting Onision over Chris Hansen? What's wrong with us?" which I think is gonna happen here when people are like "Wait, are we really saying that the mother of one of the Columbine shooters was a good mother that did nothing wrong, and encouraging her to continue to build a career around being the mother of a school shooter? What's wrong with us?"
@@qty1315She wasn't told about any of that. She was specifically not told. The friends parents told the school and the police and that was it. There is video of them saying this. Timmy flat out lied about that.
That's what I don't understand either. I understand not liking Sue Klebold, everyone can have their opinion. All the things he said about her are things I've heard other people say before. Except these people don't go out of their way and spend time and effort to maliciously misrepresent information to try to paint her in a certain light to get other people on board the Sue hate train like Timmy.
She was not told about the journals, tapes, websites or pipe bomb until after the shooting, you have been misinformed. As well, she donated the proceeds of her book and was not paid for the ted talk. As well, she DID try to prevent her son from hanging out with the other shooter by forbidding him from doing so, but this proved difficult since they went to the same school. This is why people are mad at Timmy, because he did not represent the actions she took fairly.@@qty1315
getting back into papa gut after having a papa gut detox is so much fun
similar to crack
@@istanbool amen
@@istanboolpapa gut = a lot of crack.
timmy2cents is so hell bent on this point it’s actually odd lol well, i guess we’ll see what kind of parent he turns out to be, seeing as he wants to be the arbiter of good parenting and whatnot. he’s also COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that when Columbine happened, school shootings were nowhere near as common as they are now. Columbine certainly wasn’t the first incident, but it was one of few incidents compared to what we have today. people just weren’t thinking about that kind of crime so much and as such, they weren’t looking at their kids’ behavior for red flags of becoming a school shooter. and the internet was relatively new at the time, so Sue not knowing about that website is PERFECTLY REASONABLE given that no one told her about it and back then, everybody didn’t have four different personal webpages up and running at the same time like we do now (social media), it simply wasn’t a part of the culture of the day to look up your kids on the internet to see what they were doing. my parents were strict af about my internet usage and even they didn’t know about all the dumb little geocities websites i used to make about my favorite bands and whatnot lol. Timmy is trying to interpret Sue and her son and Columbine through a modern-day lens, just completely taking it for granted that she should have known all these things and recognized all the signs her son was showing despite the fact that there just wasn’t as much known about school shootings back then bc it wasn’t happening as much. we have the benefit of decades of research now and advanced understanding of child psychology and what the signs are that parents should be looking for that their child is at risk of becoming a shooter. Sue didn’t have all that and she is still taking accountability for the things that she reasonably could have known and seen but simply missed bc she loved her kid and probably thought too highly of him in spite of his bad behavior to ever conceive of the idea that he could become a mass killer. any parent is going to give their child more credit than to assume that they’re harboring violent, evil thoughts unless they’ve already displayed a history of violent behaviors. i’m sure she could have done better, we all can, but she did the best she could with what she had at the time and is still trying to reach people to encourage them to be more vigilant since she no longer has the opportunity, fully knowing that people like Timmy are going to come out and pick her apart and shit all over her as she’s continuing to work through the worst thing that’s ever happened in her life. i’d say that’s taking accountability.
Timmy 2 Cents deleted the video response...something seems fishy
Started deleting any and all critical comments on the original video too.
Just to clarify the website was Eric’s, not Dylan’s (Dylan is Sue’s son)
I'm so glad a 3rd person on TH-cam is weighing in on this, like an unbiased bystander. Thank you.
Timmy's argument that he never SAID Sue knew about the website and the videos, as if it is unreasonable to infer that from him saying Judy knew about Erics website and that Judy warned Sue about Eric being dangerous while knowing about the website and threats, is such a ridiculously weasel take. I'm not surprised he took the video down.
It's like if I said "Bob has no black friends in his facebook photos; Bob's great-uncle happened to be part of the KKK" and then go "BUT I NEVER SAID THAT" if someone said 'hey, pointing out that Bob doesn't have black friends in his facebook photos and has a family member in the KKK seems to be implying Bob is a racist.' You do not need to LITERALLY SAY THE WORDS to be making the point. It's why people go absolutely insane if you say 'Make America Great Again.' What, do you have a problem with America being great?
Timmy is just mad Miorby has some basic media literacy.
Holy shit. Timmy2Cents already privated this response video? Anybody know how long this recent video lasted on his channel before he privated it?
Bout 2 days, I think.
@@TheRoosterofDoomyeah I think just under 48 hours. Then added a pinned comment to the original video with “corrections”. Timmy is hell bent on trying to ignore this.
Thank you for reacting to his video because now, my comment calling him out is lost now that he has privated this video.
Timmy finds the benefit of hindsight absolutely glorious.
Thank god you reacted to this, wouldn’t have been able to watch it otherwise. Hero
You probably vote Green Party, when we have a democracy to save.
@@bigplanslittledrive4791found Timmy’s burner account
Love how he skipped over the part where Sue literally grounded Dylan with the condition he wasnt allowed to see Eric 😂
Edit - nevermind its even worse he tried to make that part support his position with weasel words 😂
HE JUST PRIVATED THE VIDEO 🤣🤣
Dude privated his response. Thanks for uploading this 🙏
Its crazy how he immediately starts the video doing exactly what he was criticized for
TimmyNoSense.
I know this isn't the main point, but Timmy is really bad at hiding how dogshit his arguments are. He goes from emphatically, definitively saying that that one guy "was the first person in history to correctly threat assess a modern school shooter" to basically goin "Awe geez well he knew Dylan was gonna harm his kid in some way, so yknow he DID assess a threat!"
Edit: I just finished the video and noticed the very convenient fact that Timmy says that all he ever did was claim that Sue is a bad mom, while conveniently leaving out all the times he claimed she was a narcissist banking on the tragedy for personal gain, in basically those exact words.
21:30 it’s irrelevant whether or not she had a robust understanding of psychology given that even therapists and psychiatrists need professionals to help them with their own mental health issues and that family members can be a blind spot… therapists do not treat their own children and when they do they probably often overcorrect or overlook behaviors due to parental bias
in other words being a therapist doesn’t automatically mean you can predict whether or not your son will shoot up a school
and also, to build on what i think you’re already saying here, child educators aren’t qualified to diagnose children like timmy2cents isn’t even acknowledging the fact he never established that she was an art therapist-i also don’t think he is now stating that she “taught psychology to kids” rather he seems to think that regular teachers who teach regular curriculum to children are automatically psychologists
Pretty sure he deleted or privated the video. I was really eager to see what the community feedback was gonna be. I think anyone with basic level of understanding and contextualization could understand what Sue was trying to say. So crazy this guy decided to double down like this
it was rough... i commented saying he should at least read the fuking book before slandering someone involved in such a horrific tragedy and it got like 50 likes pretty quickly, literally no one was on his side
@@lovelybones8179I think the only one I saw supporting him was one that said that Miorby was simping for Sue.
@@digimonlover1632Oh yeah, the Timmy stans. They are so insufferable.
Yeah nobody was on his side. From what i remember people were putting blame to both miorby and timmy, but they were more sided with miorby.
People also were calling him out even further.
Its so easy to overlook ones own faults or the faults of close family. Its why you have full blown therapists with undiagnosed neuroses
He already deleted this response 😂
wait, did he delete it??? i cant find it
I think so. Seems like he made it private
Also, at the time school ahootings were fairly unknown and due to the more primitive technology it didnt apread much before.
They were local events and never sensationalized liked columnbine, at the time it was uninaginable that a kid would do shit like that.
bahahaha - I had to turn the off when I was on my own because I couldn't stomach it. It's super funny with you! Thanks. This is unbearable without you Papa. I agree with everything you are saying so far! subbed. Timmy should just apologise and fade away quietly. I find Sue's insight very valuable. I don't have any particular opinion about her as a person at all. But she doesn't deserve this dude slandering her. This dude thinks he has more to offer than her. What a joke! Someone was also trying to link this dudes video to Sue's book's wiki page. smh. He compares his three weeks of research to her decades of introspection and processing and thinks he knows best.
I forgot that this is the same guy that did the wiggle video. That was such a great video. Maybe he should use his sociology degree to find out where he went wrong with his content and his ego.
Wiggle video?
@@notiddypunkgf2246 The wiggle that killed Tarkov
yeah that video was great. it really makes me wonder why this one is so terrible.. or if the wiggle video was actually fabricated too
Timmy’s response video was deleted in less than a day lmao
Papa you should moderate Timmy v Miorby II if it ever happens youre fair minded enough
Did Timmy have more videos before? Only two videos exist on the channel now and this video you are reacting to has been made private.
Hell no
@@bennotallent1650 Ight man I was just ssking
@@Damacles1776 he actually does have a gaming channel
The sourced video is private now lol I assume he didn't get a great response to it ya think
Did he delete his response already?? I can't find it on either of Timmy's channels.
This guy & his fam went to the same church I went to growing up in the early 2000s … it’s odd seeing him pop up in my TH-cam feed. Hope he’s doing alright these days aside from this spat.
I watched the video like 16 hours after it came out. Went back to see the like-dislike ratio and it's gone? Did he delete it? Man's must have been getting reamed in the comments and realized it was over for him
He was, all the top comments were calling him out.
@@gabemissouri I saw one or two guys defending him to no end. Hate to see people blindly defend someone who shouldn't be defended
Damn this video after reading his comment on the last post is crazy 😂😂
Bro got popular with a couple Tarkov (ew) videos and he should've stayed there.
When did we start putting parents in prison for their mistakes?
Usually when people make bad videos and are called out go into hiding but this dude just doubled down for so long
Wasn’t this the guys first video too? Way to not fly even close to the sun
He has a popular gaming channel and this was his attempt at branching out to commentary.
I'm going to suggest to him that he sticks to escape to Tarkov videos 😂
Nice pfp. He got a lot of views on the original video, that's probably why he has such strong views about the narrative he built.
Funny that he claims others are making straw man arguments but then makes straw man arguments himself
Just as you said - whether you like Sue or not is irrelevant. I read her book and while I was glad she wrote the book as a footnote to the Columbine case, I did have problems with the book.
I watched the video by Timmy2cents, and I was very off put by it. It felt very unfair and his "nice guy" demeanor and all that just added to it. it just felt very disingenuous and maniplative and then that other guy made a response video and I stayed up to date on the whole thing for 2 months or so.
In his video, he does say bullying, the police, etc were a part of it, but then DOWNPLAYS it and even says calls Sue Klebold's parenting the most signifant reason for Columbine. Which is not only insane but laughably wrong.He also admitted at one point that he holds her up to a higher standard. Which again is insane and unreasonable. First off, from my understanding the worse person to diagnosis a family member is another family member. So that blows that argument out of the water even if she had a degree in psychiatry [which she didn't] and from what she knew and from the outside looking in - I can't find a single reason as to why she should of known this would of happened. I ask my self "Would I of known?" and the answer is no and EVERYONE agrees. Every single person who knew them was not at all shocked at Eric's involvement, but they were absolutely dumb founded when they heard Dylan was involved. Brookes Brown said when they named Dylan as the second shooter "That floored me." His parents who knew about the website, knew what a danger Eric Harris was, etc they have also admitted "it's hard for me to still believe Dylan was involved." Not only did Sue not see it, but those with BETTER F**KING INFORMATION then she had were shocked by it. I mean, what did she know? That her son vandalized a locker because he was bullied, was being bullied, stole from a van, hung out with a friend who got him into minor trouble, smoked a joint with his brother.....THAT IS LITERALLY IT. So that makes me ask the question "if your son broke into a van, committed theft, did drugs....are you gonna assume he's gonna COMMIT MASS MURDER?!" If so, then your out of your mind Timmy2cents!!!! This would be like blaming John Wayne Gacy's wife, mother, and sister for "not knowing" Gacy was a serial killer because "The smell from the crawlspace, Gacy hiring only teenage boys for his company, and homosexual magazines." His neighbors and the police who heard his teenage victims SCREAMING in agony and pain and they called the police and the police did nothing and they did nothing. They hold far more accountability then his wife, sister, and mother. Sure, his wife suspected something. She found a mattress in his garage and saw the magazines, etc. Something fishy was going on, but probably not SERIAL MURDER.
"You acknowledged that they existed, but you downplayed the severity of their mistakes." exactly and he also admitted he holds Sue to a "higher standard" because she's a parent?! And implies that we are holding her to a different standard, because she's a parent?! I don't hold Sue Klebold or any parent to a different standard. The reason why this is an issue is because YOU HAVE NO IDEA. John Wayne Gacy's father - he was heavily to blame for the murders. Gacy's father brutally beat him for the most trivial things. Richard Chase, his mother was mentally ill, abused her son, and when she caught him in the act of his vampirism when it came to animals - she didn't do anything. She also lead the police to an animal cemetery her son made, of all his animal victims when he was a child and once he was in institutionalized he was medicated and she weened him off the medication and then he went and killed 6 people to "drink their blood". She knew what he was capable of, knew what he was doing to animals, knew he was schizophrenic, got him off his pills, etc - Sue Klebold "He stole from a fan, vandalized lockers, smoked a joint.." THAT'S IT?! Now if she had actually done something wrong, then you have some argument, but Timmy2cents has nothing or little of nothing. Even if I can grant you
"Should of kept him from Eric." and Timmy even goes so far as to imply "They should of just packed up and moved" LIKE THAT'S REASONABLE. LIKE EVERYONE CAN DO THAT and why move? "Because my friend told me his friend was "dangerous" but didn't give me anymore information, and because they did some minor crimes like vandalism and stealing? I'm gonna MOVE because of that?"
By the way...let's take this even further...if Sue was such a bad parent and yet she didn't know a lot of things and yet she's still a bad parents regardless and she should of moved, or done this and that because "Eric was dangerous' she was told, etc......WHAT ABOUT THE ACCOUNTABILITY OF THE BROWNS?! They didn't go "Look at this website" and showed Sue Eric's website. Aren't they WORSE then Sue Klebold? Then why didn't he attack them?! ....Oh because she isn't the killer's parent. That's why.
"You suggested the argument. Which is what a lot of his video is full of. Suggestions." Exactly, which is what makes it so sleazy and dishonest.
Doesn't f**king matter if you explicitly said it. You implied it and you omitted context. This is going "Hey, Tony. Go and take care of this for me." and then when charged with murder and the recording is played in court going "I didn't tell Tony to kill him."
"it's just lawyer speak and it just makes perfect sense" Exactly.
I made this same point. There is a difference between First agree murder, second degree murder, and third degree murder and apparently Timmy2cents would seem to go "Wrong, they f**king committed a felony. That's downplaying the crime." No it isn't.
How does he nit realize he is making the argument from hindsight. I was more willing to give Timmy a pass when he and Miorby had their convo. I don't like how Miorby handled it, but this response was awful.
Also, his seatbelt analogy at the end was goofy. You can still die in an accident while wearing a seatbelt too. Turns out it isn't the only factor in whether or not tragedy happens....
I have never heard about this situation but his statement at 5:33 is insanely obtuse
25:22 This whole point he makes about Sue "seeing wounds on her son that she wishes she could fix" literally makes no sense for the point hes try to make, being that Sue thinks her son was just always like this from birth. Because if he had basic middle school reading comprehension he'd understand that its widely understood a "wound" is generally inflicted upon someone and not just there from birth, which you'd rather describe as a "disfigurement" or something to that effect.
With that being said it wouldn't even matter since we as a society understand people can be predisposed to mental illness from birth due to a number of biological factors. This guys just an idiot across all subjects, from linguistics to sociology.
Also the locker shit is a good example of the narrative of he's trying to push Miorby pointed out specifically that Dylan only had 2 incidents on his criminal record, keyword there is Criminal, the locker hacking shiz never went past expelled from school it wasn't a criminal offense on his criminal record
Papagut is best consumed in bursts
I totally agree with your analysis.
WHAT DID YOU SAY ABOUT CM PUNK
Timmy reminds me of illuminaughti.
You should debate
i fear that timmy's narrative will set back the conversation regarding school shooters. i think we are finally comfortable enough to frame the epidemic of mass shootings as a cultural and political issue rather than an individual issue, but timmy insists that sue's individual parenting is the issue. this does nothing to address how we frame masculinity and violence, gun control, etc. i don't think he realizes how damaging is video really is.
just wanna say at 45:06 you look very cute
papa gut calling cm punk a complainer is boogie levels of hypocrisy and stupidity
Running defense for her is so weird. It’s clear from the talk she’s trying to get across that there was nothing she could have done and no signs.
How could she have known that her son was going to go as far as he did then? Just because she could have realized that he is depressed, he did his best to hide his plans from her. There was literally nothing left for her to make that inference that her son was going to do something that horrific. If she couldn't make that conclusion, how could she have stopped it from happening?
@@Chaos-om4oh I don’t disagree it’s just everything she says papa gut is taking in the most charitable light possible. He was reaching so hard on some of the statements
@@Absorbedtoast I recommend taking a look at Miorby's videos on Timmy2cents original video to get a better understanding of why Papa Gut is being very defensive of Sue Klebold. Timmy2cents lied and omit information that might change your point of view on this. Plus, that's really who Timmy2Cents making the video about so that context is important
@@Chaos-om4oh They did not hide their plans. I suggest you take a look at the evidence. There were several substantial cries for help that went unnoticed by a teacher and another parent. There was a lot of homicidal ideation. Harris was quite disturbed, it sounds like the family life was harsh and perhaps overly regimented. Klebold suffered from depression, but did have a girlfriend. The boys had a couple skirmishes, but the “relentless bullying” thing is a myth meant to explain that without any singular explanation. It was a perfect storm, the boys’ worked on each other as have other murderous pairings have done. There’s been a lot of FBI analysis of the case.
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Don't watch and then comment, then ❤
@@RexofEctobius dislike
@@vomitfang Very poggers