your assessment of gloomhaven is 100% accurate. i bought it, was so excited, then my friends and i played it. it was less an adventure game, and more of a puzzle solver. they packed everything in that box except the fun. it just felt like work, with no excitement whatsoever. i sold it at a loss
So many people rave about Gloomhaven and Kyle does not see why, for the reasons you named. It’s nice to hear someone else had the same experience. Thanks for the comment!
Have you all played through the D&D Adventure games, Sword & Sorcery and Shadows and Brimstone? I'm not saying any of those games should be on your list, but just curious to know your experience, since all of those games are pure co-ops and not out of print or unobtainable Kickstarters.
Kyle has not played any of the D&D dungeon crawlers but they look very interesting. The fact that you build the dungeon with puzzle-like piece seems fun. He knows there is pressure to keep moving because extra monsters come out if you hang around too long. They sound pretty fun!
What a great list! I have M&M, Coraquest and Wander Barnacle Bay as well and they are amazingly fun games. I also Backed LaClucks revenge and cant wait it to arrive.
It makes me so happy to see someone else that rates Wander as their #1 like me. It has its flaws (rulebook needed a little more love, it doesn't balance well for lower player counts, and there were a number of mistakes) but regardless, I get such a buzz whenever I have played the game. I'm really excited to sink my teeth into LaCluck's Revenge.
14:00 I’m curious if you like card management as mechanic…the reason I say that is because it seems you did not like or appreciate the aspect of card management in Gloomhaven. That is one of the most appealing parts of Gloomhaven! The decision of what to keep and what to discard. Of this is the time you want to use one of your super abilities, or you are going knuckle down and bide your time. I think saying you don’t have choices in Gloomhaven is unfair. There are a ton of choices, you just don’t like the choices you have to make. Gloomhaven is about taking optimal turns (and that’s before your characters upgrade and get new more powerful cards and abilities). The mechanics in Gloomhaven are similar to many classic Euros, just like Scythe, and Orange Nebula Games. It is about being efficient and optimizing your moves.
You're right. In Gloomhaven you have to make really tough choices, but Kyle felt you ended up throwing away your good card just to move and just end up doing a basic attack. Kyle never felt like his character was very effective and all of his choices were, "which one is the least worst", and not, "which is the best." In four and a half games Kyle never got any of his combos to work because of his partner getting in the way, the enemy did something unexpected or he didn't have the cards he needed to pull off the combo. Kyle saw all this potential in his hand but, in nearly five games, the opportunity never happened. Gloonhaven is not a bad game. It's just not for Kyle because he didn't have a good experience with it. If you enjoy it, we don't want to take that away from anyone. So, quest on, adventure!
i wasnt a fan either. i got the game, but it was a slog. just not one bit of excitement or suspense. and he said you knew halfway through if you were going to succeed, which i agree with. yawn
Easy fix for Mice and Mystics: roll for attacks against you, yourself? And just have another player check so there’s no cheating (if that’s even necessary). Then you don’t have to feel like you’re hurting another player 🤔
"You get cursed by a witch and you turn into little mice." That's not what happens in Mice and Mystics. They turn themselves into mice to be able to escape.
I once nearly made a buddy of mine rage quit the D&D fantasy adventure boardgame. It's a co-op dungeoncrawl like HeroQuest. My character had found an item that let me summon another player's character on an adjacent square next to my character. So what I did was: Walk up to a locked door. Summon my buddy's character on the other side of that door in an unxeplored room that ended up containing 3 orcs. It could have been worse, but a 3 on 1 fight isn't ideal. What made it worse was that he had already taken his turn and the monsters still had to take their turn. What made it even worse was that after the monster turn we'd have to shuffle the turn order cards meaning the monsters could get another turn before he finally had a go! Ah good times.
These are other Dungeon Crawlers that can compete with Barnacle (not fiddly, cooperative and fun), are you familiar with these: Massive Darkness 2, Kinfire Chronicles, Tales from the Red Dragon inn.
Kyle has watched play-throughs and reviews on all of these. All three of those games are good, but for theme, simplicity and fun factor, he personally believes Barnicale Bay is the superior game.
Kyle tried it 3 and a half times (he gave up halfway through the third). His dislike for the game and its card mechanics is in no way a condemnation of the game itself. It only means there is a really popular game that a lot of people like, that just doesn’t tickle his fancy. We don’t want to take anything away from people who love it. Kyle is just not one of those people. Has there ever been a movie that everyone seemed to like, but then when you saw it, you were like, “meh?” That’s what Gloonhaven is for Kyle. A difference of or unpopular opinion about a game should not make one think that a person is out of sync with the overall community. If you like it, play on!
I wish zombicide didn't cost an arm and a leg. There's no reason that base game should cost well over 100 euros. That's why I only have the night of the living dead version.
League of Dungeoneers, dungeon Universalis, Descent, Sword and Sorcery, Middara, Shadows of Brimstone, HeroQuest, Dungeon Crusade, Dark Souls, Bardsung, Tainted Grail, all 3 Resident Evils, Chronicles of Drunagor, D&D series, Mansions of Madness, Escape the dark castle, Hellboy, Warhammer quest, Secrets of the lost tomb, and I’m sure I missed a bunch more…none of these on the list???
You can probably tell that Kyle does not prefer the really “crunchy” games. He likes things a bit more streamlined and quick. All of the ones you mentioned are great, but not his cup of tea. We also tried to stay away from the ones EVERYONE mentions.
Yeah I get that was the approach. My definition of dungeon crawl includes that it has to be crunchy…character leveling (real leveling not zombicide leveling) and it has to have rules and conditions for everything. D&D in a box…
We did mention Hero Quest early in the video, and dungeon crawls have come a long way since then. While we certainly understand that everyone has their own personal preference, for Kyle, the other games you mentioned don't even crack his top 20 for various reason touched on in the video. Warhammer in particular is notorious for its unforgiving complexity and crunchy mechanics, which is against what we find enjoyable in board games.
"It's ADORABLE body horror." That is the phrase of the day!
Kyle is full of them!
your assessment of gloomhaven is 100% accurate. i bought it, was so excited, then my friends and i played it. it was less an adventure game, and more of a puzzle solver. they packed everything in that box except the fun. it just felt like work, with no excitement whatsoever. i sold it at a loss
So many people rave about Gloomhaven and Kyle does not see why, for the reasons you named. It’s nice to hear someone else had the same experience. Thanks for the comment!
Massive Darkness 2 is the best. Easiest to get to table. Unique player mini games for each. One shot or campaign. Tons of expansions and monsters.
Awesome! Thanks for the comment!
i play the first one, and its fun. the second one is supposed to be better, so im excited to try
Haven't heard of some of these games, now I gotta look into them to play with my friends.
Absolutely you do!
Have you all played through the D&D Adventure games, Sword & Sorcery and Shadows and Brimstone? I'm not saying any of those games should be on your list, but just curious to know your experience, since all of those games are pure co-ops and not out of print or unobtainable Kickstarters.
Kyle has not played any of the D&D dungeon crawlers but they look very interesting. The fact that you build the dungeon with puzzle-like piece seems fun. He knows there is pressure to keep moving because extra monsters come out if you hang around too long. They sound pretty fun!
What a great list! I have M&M, Coraquest and Wander Barnacle Bay as well and they are amazingly fun games. I also Backed LaClucks revenge and cant wait it to arrive.
You are a person of impeccable taste, then!
@@mirrortwins9694 Why thank you! And might i add, didnt care for Gloomhaven or JOTL for almost the same reasons you described 😄
Barnacle Bay is excellent! Get it if you can. I highly recommend it.
Yeah, what he said!
Love Zombiecide! I have to see if my kids would be into Cora Quest!
It is a good game!
It makes me so happy to see someone else that rates Wander as their #1 like me. It has its flaws (rulebook needed a little more love, it doesn't balance well for lower player counts, and there were a number of mistakes) but regardless, I get such a buzz whenever I have played the game.
I'm really excited to sink my teeth into LaCluck's Revenge.
Kyle loves this game and Justin enjoyed it immensely when he played it. Glad to hear other people rank it at the top as well. Thanks for the comment!
I believe the video game Monkey Island 2 is subtitled "La Chuck's Revenge". I like seeing board games make parodies/references to non board games.😁
Oh wow! We didn’t realize that! Thanks for the comment!
14:00 I’m curious if you like card management as mechanic…the reason I say that is because it seems you did not like or appreciate the aspect of card management in Gloomhaven. That is one of the most appealing parts of Gloomhaven! The decision of what to keep and what to discard. Of this is the time you want to use one of your super abilities, or you are going knuckle down and bide your time.
I think saying you don’t have choices in Gloomhaven is unfair. There are a ton of choices, you just don’t like the choices you have to make. Gloomhaven is about taking optimal turns (and that’s before your characters upgrade and get new more powerful cards and abilities). The mechanics in Gloomhaven are similar to many classic Euros, just like Scythe, and Orange Nebula Games. It is about being efficient and optimizing your moves.
You're right. In Gloomhaven you have to make really tough choices, but Kyle felt you ended up throwing away your good card just to move and just end up doing a basic attack. Kyle never felt like his character was very effective and all of his choices were, "which one is the least worst", and not, "which is the best." In four and a half games Kyle never got any of his combos to work because of his partner getting in the way, the enemy did something unexpected or he didn't have the cards he needed to pull off the combo. Kyle saw all this potential in his hand but, in nearly five games, the opportunity never happened. Gloonhaven is not a bad game. It's just not for Kyle because he didn't have a good experience with it. If you enjoy it, we don't want to take that away from anyone. So, quest on, adventure!
i wasnt a fan either. i got the game, but it was a slog. just not one bit of excitement or suspense. and he said you knew halfway through if you were going to succeed, which i agree with. yawn
@@mirrortwins9694 Respect.
Wow, those Mice and Mystics minis look great!
They certainly do!
love this game. it has been in my top dungeon crawl list on both iterations of my top 10 lists. Wander is great
Yes! It is an excellent game!
Easy fix for Mice and Mystics: roll for attacks against you, yourself? And just have another player check so there’s no cheating (if that’s even necessary). Then you don’t have to feel like you’re hurting another player 🤔
That’s a good idea
"You get cursed by a witch and you turn into little mice."
That's not what happens in Mice and Mystics. They turn themselves into mice to be able to escape.
Oops! One strike against Kyle. He does have a lot of games in his head, though, and he hasn’t played it in a while.
I once nearly made a buddy of mine rage quit the D&D fantasy adventure boardgame. It's a co-op dungeoncrawl like HeroQuest. My character had found an item that let me summon another player's character on an adjacent square next to my character. So what I did was: Walk up to a locked door. Summon my buddy's character on the other side of that door in an unxeplored room that ended up containing 3 orcs. It could have been worse, but a 3 on 1 fight isn't ideal. What made it worse was that he had already taken his turn and the monsters still had to take their turn. What made it even worse was that after the monster turn we'd have to shuffle the turn order cards meaning the monsters could get another turn before he finally had a go! Ah good times.
Hahaha! I hope you guys are still friends after all that! Great story. Thanks for sharing!
@@mirrortwins9694 Yeah don't worry, we're still good. And hey, he said " I'll play fighter I'll draw agrro." So I just helped him. 😁
Okay 😄! Good to hear!
These are other Dungeon Crawlers that can compete with Barnacle (not fiddly, cooperative and fun), are you familiar with these: Massive Darkness 2, Kinfire Chronicles, Tales from the Red Dragon inn.
Kyle has watched play-throughs and reviews on all of these. All three of those games are good, but for theme, simplicity and fun factor, he personally believes Barnicale Bay is the superior game.
My top 3:
Tales from the red dragon inn
Sword & sorcery
Dungeons of Doria
We’ve never played these. We’ll have to check them out!
Jaws of the Lion is a great game. Did you truly try it? Your strong stance against it makes me wonder if you’re out of sync with many board gamers.
Kyle tried it 3 and a half times (he gave up halfway through the third). His dislike for the game and its card mechanics is in no way a condemnation of the game itself. It only means there is a really popular game that a lot of people like, that just doesn’t tickle his fancy. We don’t want to take anything away from people who love it. Kyle is just not one of those people. Has there ever been a movie that everyone seemed to like, but then when you saw it, you were like, “meh?” That’s what Gloonhaven is for Kyle.
A difference of or unpopular opinion about a game should not make one think that a person is out of sync with the overall community. If you like it, play on!
i loathed it. felt like a puzzlesolver rather than an adventure game, and thats not what i was looking for
I wish zombicide didn't cost an arm and a leg. There's no reason that base game should cost well over 100 euros. That's why I only have the night of the living dead version.
Well, maybe that’s all you need. Kyle loves all those character expansion, though.
@@mirrortwins9694 They sure look nice. I got half a mind to pick up the Iron maiden ones.
They add an extra element of fun!
League of Dungeoneers, dungeon Universalis, Descent, Sword and Sorcery, Middara, Shadows of Brimstone, HeroQuest, Dungeon Crusade, Dark Souls, Bardsung, Tainted Grail, all 3 Resident Evils, Chronicles of Drunagor, D&D series, Mansions of Madness, Escape the dark castle, Hellboy, Warhammer quest, Secrets of the lost tomb, and I’m sure I missed a bunch more…none of these on the list???
You can probably tell that Kyle does not prefer the really “crunchy” games. He likes things a bit more streamlined and quick. All of the ones you mentioned are great, but not his cup of tea. We also tried to stay away from the ones EVERYONE mentions.
Yeah I get that was the approach. My definition of dungeon crawl includes that it has to be crunchy…character leveling (real leveling not zombicide leveling) and it has to have rules and conditions for everything. D&D in a box…
Remind me of the sonic commercial guys
Gotta check out this guy! th-cam.com/video/Cx8sl2uC46A/w-d-xo.htmlsi=6TztMp-aX8Dhcz-E
I collect dungeon crawlers and
Mice and mystics is probably the worst boardgame I've ever played.
What didn’t you like about it?
Are these Dungeon Crawls?
The definition for dungeon crawls is a little loose, but yes, all of these would be considered dungeon crawlers by most gamers.
Played almost all of these and shadows of brimstone is better
We’ve never played it. What do you like so much so about it? What makes it different and your favorite?
No Heroquest, Warhammer Quest, Descent or Darklight: Memento Mori? What's the point of even making a video like this if you leave all of the best out?
We did mention Hero Quest early in the video, and dungeon crawls have come a long way since then. While we certainly understand that everyone has their own personal preference, for Kyle, the other games you mentioned don't even crack his top 20 for various reason touched on in the video. Warhammer in particular is notorious for its unforgiving complexity and crunchy mechanics, which is against what we find enjoyable in board games.
Yes, of course. Objectively speaking.
Those are the best games according to you not him. Its his video and his opinion. And honestly I wish I owned Barnacle Bay after watching this.
Really boring list i think is the worst dungeon crawler list on You tube 😂
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I even if that opinion is wrong. 😂