the explanation is completely wrong and inaccurate. Starting from the point that A1 is connected first, and A2 connected second, thats why it named A1 and A2. and not A2 and A1.
@@kag46 yes about the weird behavior on daisy topology probably. And also an exposed A2 slot creates huge interference for the A1 slot, because of the Open Circuit effect (where A2 is that circuit). Since all termination comes from ramsticks.
Dude, you have no idea how many videos I've been trying to find just for this simple answer. There was no over-talk at all; you got straight to the point. Simply amazing dude the example was perfect. Thank you so much
the explanation is completely wrong. You have to put sticks in A2 and B2 for the "channel termination", since Terminators are placed om ram sticks itself. When sticks are in A1 and B1, A2 and B2 will work as an open circuit and cause interference.
So unfortunate that DDR5 was so expensive when I had to upgrade to AM5, now I’m at 2x16GB and can’t really upgrade without making it worse or throwing the old kit away 😂
@@chaotus Nope. Ryzen benefits from 4 sticks of ram. Its important to know if your motherboard is daisy chain ram sticks or T-topology. This little detail is not mentioned in the video. What he is talking about is probably about daisy chain ram topology. If you have T-topology, you can reach high ram speeds with all slots filled.
I succesfully clocked 128GB to a decent speed. 4 x 32GB of ddr5 to 5600mhz. I used two Teamgroup T-Created 2x32GB kits. They use Hynix A-die. I am on am MSI Tomahawk z790 and have an I9-13900k. So far I have been unable to post with RAM clocked past 6000mhz and I'm pretty sure that's the limit of the motherboard according to the spec sheet.
Very nice explanation. I didn't want to return my RAM so I just decided to stick with 64 GB at 5200mhz even though they are 6000mhz ram. I did a bunch of testing and the FPS was negligible
I purchased a new PC a month ago which had two DD5 sticks for a total of 32gb. I purchased the same type of memory and added another two sticks so I now have 4 sticks for a total of 64gb. I was so pleasantly surprised the computer booted like normal and in task manager it showed 64gb running at 6000 speed which is what they were rated at.
I wish I saw this video before I went through the headache with my DDR5 4 sticks @ 6400 for the last 2 days. I couldn't run it in XMP without my games crashing to desktop...So I'm running 4x16gb not using XMP until my 2x32gb comes in on Tuesday lol.
@@Jalex8975 yo man, i just bought some 2x32gb ddr5 kit for my ryzen 9 7900x. It comes with xmp and expo compatibility at 6400cl32. You think running at xmp/expo settings is going to work without issues? i have the latest bios which seems to have improved this stability problems. I just want to use 64gb 6400.
@LethaR_YT can't speak too much on AMD but I know these intel CPUs don't like for sticks of ram @xmp settings. Constantly was crashing to desktop mid game. Got the same ram but 2x32gb at the same speed of 6400 and its worked flawlessly. I'll take function over looks from now on lol
Multiple DDR5 memory chips can be mounted on a circuit board to form memory modules. For use in personal computers and servers, DDR5 memory is usually supplied in 288-pin dual in-line memory modules, more commonly known as DIMMs. As with previous memory generations, there are multiple DIMM variants available for DDR5. Unbuffered memory modules (UDIMMs) directly expose the memory chip interface to the module connector. Registered or load-reduced variants (RDIMMs/LRDIMMs) use additional active circuitry on the memory module in order to buffer the signals between the memory controller and the DRAM chips. This reduces the capacitive load on the DDR5 bus. DDR5 RDIMMs/LRDIMMs use 12 V and UDIMMs use 5 V input. In order to prevent damage by accidental insertion of the wrong memory type, DDR5 UDIMMs and (L)RDIMMs are not mechanically compatible. Additionally, DDR5 DIMMs are supplied with management interface power at 3.3 V,and use on-board circuitry (a power management integrated circuit and associated passive components) to convert to the lower voltage required by the memory chips. Final voltage regulation close to the point of use provides more stable power, and mirrors the development of voltage regulator modules for CPU power supplies. Almost everything in this video is absolutely wrong. Like I mean no just disrespect whatsoever. Since ASUS BIOS version 700 I've been able to run four sticks of udim SDRAM at 6, 400m/t without touching the single timing without adjusting any voltages right out the box. When the new a Agesa came out then every benchmarker in the world was now able to do 2t instead of just 1t. And people were able to do 8,000 9,000 mega transfers stable because of nitro. Personally I run 1t with an f clock raise to 2167 64 GB 6400 mega transfers and raising that infinity clock was really the main difference here that's what created a 15 to 20 FPS boost in every AAA game I own across the board. We've been able to do 64gb and 96 GB at above 6,400 to 6600 1T right out the box without adjusting timing. The only thing here is if you want to run above 6400 out the box with primaries you have to adjust the voltage. SD RAM or synchronous dynamic random access memory has its own on board circuitry on the memory module. This is the first time in human history that we've ever been able to do this. But this is a huge misconception but where most people go wrong is where you use dual rank or single rank That's where the people go wrong cuz if you're running four dims of dual rank that is so redundant. Then you're just wasting two lanes of your entire four-channel integrated memory controller. Hope this helps and enjoy And I mean zero disrespect I'm just trying to show information that is right in front of my face on a hardware level and then usable and stable in the OEM.
So breaking it down so a newbie pc builder can understand it. Should I concern myself with picking 4x16 vs 2x32 (ddr5) or doesn't it matter which i choose?
You gotta play with voltage and manual timings to get up to 6000, with 4 sticks, it's possible but takes a lot of tinkering, very much not a plug and play situation
I had used non QLV 2 stick rams and added 2 more same code, never had problems but depends how much performance you get more than 4 sticks, if it's worth it or not over RGB 4 sticks looking awesome 🙌
I'm pretty sure it's the opposite reasoning for a2 and B2, it goes through a1 first the a2, but when it comes back from an empty slot it is more likely to get corrupted, that's what I thought, not better performance but more stability.
But past reviews by other channels show games "run better" on systems using 4 sticks vs 2 with same total memory size. This pretty much contradicts your opinion, which also doesn't prove anything either
But if you run 4 single rank sticks they become duel rank and memory interleaving enters the equation. Ryzen 5000 loves interleaving memory. Gamer Nexus demonstrated good increases in frame rates in games using 4 sticks for dual rank that more than make up for the added latency.
On the DDR4 Intel boards: I can't get DDR4 4000 @ CL18 to work when using 4x432GB on my Z790 board but 128GB of 3600 CL18 will run XMP in gear 1 just fine.
Hey, i have a b550f I have 2 sticks of ram in a2-b2. Because in a1-b2 doesn’t turn on the pc. Not sure if that happen to you too. I was thinking into buy 2 more and have 4 (but from different brands because the mine is discontinued) but not sure if with 4 will turn off it too like if use only two in the not proper slots
I am sorry. This is completely wrong. Daisy Chain Topology connects a data wire from CPU socket pin to A1 pin first then to A2 pin. Same for B1 first, and B2 second. You have to populate A2 and B2 first because these slots are at the END of the Wire, and ram sticks will work there as Terminators. Empty A2 and B2 will cause interference, by creating an open circuit, while empty A1/B1 does not. Literally Everything Wrong in this video. DDR4 has no problems on Daisy Chain wiring (DDR4 4xR1 and 2xR2 works the same), so this video does not explain why DDR5 why 2xR2 is better than 4xR1, and how it possibly have to do with the wiring topology Inside the Dual Rank module and DDR5 memory controller itself. Read about Daisy Chain Topology and T-Topology yourself and how wires really placed on motherboards, and the difference between dual rank and single rank. Information in this video may get you into troubles.
I was about to write the same thing myself, but figured I'd check the comments first. You can quite literally see the traces on some motherboards, and its clear as day that daisy chain doesnt go to A2\B2 first. And on T-topology boards you can see the trace split up in order to get the same tracelength on both dimms. I got no idea where this guy got his information from, but it really isnt great.
In the real world, 4 sticks gives more fps in games. 2 sticks is good for stable ram at very high speeds which should cancel out the 4 stick advantage....in theory.
I have 4x16GB 3200 cl 16 on Intel z690, I couldnt get xmp to work on 3200, only could do xmp 2 for 3000, what you say makes sence. I also later heard getting 4 sticks on the exact xmp often causes issues. My 2 kits are the same, the timings are identical. You live and you learn, 3000 isnt the end of the world, the greed in me wants some 4000 cl 16 g.skill-s.
If I get this right. I'm currently looking at 16GB sticks, x2, they are single rank. It will be fine to later get 2 more. Case that will get to 4 ranks total. And the current struggle is if you have 2 dual rank sticks. Adding will be an issue.
Isnt running 4 single rank rams equal to runing 2 dual rank rams sticks in am5 Then y there is 6800mhz dual rank sticks and i couldnt get same speed with 4 single rank sticks???
in theory Dual Rank implements different Topology, if u place 4 sticks in motherboard, u follow the motherboard topology, and this topology is usually the Daisy Chain one. But Dual Rank memory stick creates something close to T-Topology. Probably DDR5 really likes T-Topology, while DDR4 does not care. Also on vid the Daisy Chain Topology should go from A1 to A2, not the other way, and its only connects pins (its not like 1 stick sits on 1 wire xd)
Honestly, at this point I wish they'd just sell "dummy"-sticks, so ONCE in my life I could have that 4-sticks-optic. It's always been "maybe I want to double RAM at some point" which never happens before buying a new CPU.
I read that on the 7800X3D, running 4 sticks is better, not just for fps, but more importantly for the 1% and 0.1% drops. If it is only a 1-2 fps drop by increasing to 4 sticks but you are also improving your 1 and 0.1% drop it seems extremely worth it to me. Some of these increases seem to be more evident in multiplayer games. I also read, that people were getting even more benefits by installing dual sticks. I know DDR5 is already dual rank, but by installing ram that has chips on both sides of each stick you would effectively be at 4 ranks. Note, I'm not concerned about my accuracy on what ranks are. I was just trying to explain what I meant, simply. Anyways, I would love your thoughts on using the "7800X3D" with 4 sticks and/or each stick having chips on both sides. AMD has stated that the sweet spot for ram on the 7800X3D is 6000MHz, so I might as well focus my efforts elsewhere, rather than overclocking. If any of those configurations net even small increases it would be worth it to me. Thank you very much.
Brother let me ask you one thing if we use Corsair platinum dominater ddr5 which design is single ranked it's not dual ranked .. So can I use 4x16 ??? Will it be good ..than using 2x32 gb ? As many also had errors while running it ... Also the CPU and motherboard is high end
I wonder, with slightly looser timings could that help with the longer delay getting to A1/B1? I know that'd hurt performance but if you could get enough extra speed out of it, it could be worth the trade. Although, on my 4790k/DDR3 build- 4 sticks of pretty much the same speed outdoes 2 sticks, maybe that it was x4 4gb vs x2 8gb and that lower capacity makes a difference. I even still have the number 2 firestrike CPU score for a 4790k/5700xt combo using 4 sticks. I know I could have gotten #1 if I'd just tweaked a little more but I'd been overclocking for a couple Weeks and was ready to move on.
Came across this whole researching to build a hybrid VFX and production PC that will be for gaming whenever I'm not working. For new X870e AM5 boards with the latest BIOS, is doing 4x32 DDR5 6000 CL30 still not possible? Has this improved sonce the video is posted? What ram kit(s) do you recommend for this if possible?
Is that the fastest ur ram will go mhz wise? Or is it capped because u use 4 slots? Im asking because i have 2x16gb ddr5 at 6000 mhz but i want to go to 4x16gb
Oh? Then how do you explain the 96g 4x24 of ram I have running 6000, on AM5 of all things? Corsair CMP96GX5M4B6000C30 works perfectly fine for me at 6000 and "tight" timings. Yes it was a pain in the a$$ to get working, but it works perfectly stable, every time. Previously I had 2x32 running at 7200 and it was mostly stable with tight timings, but CL36 rather than CL30. MSI B650 G+W R7 7800X3D RX 7900XTX Sapphire N+
i have ACER Predator Orion 3000 Intel Core™ i7 14700F Prozessor, 16 GB RAM ddr5 (64 Bit) should i buy 8 x 2 and use all four slots or buy 16 x 2 new and use only 2 slots?
If you aren't using the rams total capacity, then yes 2 sticks is better. If your workload requires that much ram than you gotta deal with the slower speeds. Having more ram than you need to have 4 slots filled isn't better than 2 sticks running faster.
@@okioki1131oh ok. Now I understood. For gods sake I had to find the answer to my question in an reply to a random comment under a TH-cam video of a TH-camr with 10k followers lol Thanks bro
Sorry for a dumb question, but can it be really so significant that the wire length to pass through A2 and B2 slots? As far as I know, the electricity runs as fast as the speed of light which can fly around the Earth 7.5 times in a single second.
the explanation on video is incorrect. Wire goes tru A1 and B1 slot first, and A2 and B2 slots second, NOT the other way around. A wire from CPU socket goes from left to right. And crosses A1 pin first, and A2 pin second. Thats why we must place ram sticks in A2 and B2, because this wire needs termination at the END of the wire.
Okay a bit confused and need help. I originaly bought 2 x 16gb GSkill Z5 DDR5 6800 RAM but as it was so cheap, I bought fanother 2 of the exact same ram for £130 once I installed all 4 sticks I could not get 6800 to run under XMP but it worked perfectly with XMP at 6000Mhz. Is there a way to get them to run at 6800Mhz or have I reached the limit for 4 sticks..RAM settings are so confusing. Also on Z790
@@GameTechReviews thank you for the answer. But is it more like 1-2fps or 10-20? I am just a little worried to spend too much money for a very small improvement.
@@GameTechReviewsI wish it was possible for me, I have the x670 Hero and 4 x Corsair dominator titanium 6000 CL30 and I cannot get it past 3600. Works fine with 2 sticks on EXPO for full speed on 6000 and 6200 profile without issue. I’ve spent days trying different settings and termination values to get 4 sticks and a decent speed and it says nope every time. No idea what I can do other than to get rid of this memory and buy something else! Any suggestions?
@@darvamehleran786 That's incorrect. I'm talking about 02:08 onwards. My own (and all) x670e are wired the same...one stick use goes into A2, 2 sticks A2 and B2. Physically, A1 is closest (and B1 on the B channel).
@@ChrisM541 this video is incorrect, the wire from CPU goes to A1 first, then it goes to A2. That's why they have numbers 1 and 2, and not 2 and 1. Its called Daisy Chain Topology, you can read about it. You place sticks in A2 and B2 because memory sticks also works as line Terminators, and you have to put Terminators at the END of the line, otherwise "exposed" END will cause interference.
Well my friend, please help me here because I have been having some real trouble for months now trying to run 4x16 on ASUS x670E Hero with a 7950x3D. I have tried several combinations, whet do you syuggest?
It has to do with signal quality and the wire bus termination. The DDR5 memory provide adjustable bus terminations (this is user configurable in the bios) and putting the only active DIMM for each channel on each channel's last slot (A2 and B2) puts them at the end of the bus where those bus terminations will be most effective at mitigating signal reflections. This should give the best chance at trouble-free operation. The unterminated bus stub from an unpopulated DIMM slot before the bus termination is less disruptive than a 10-15mm stub at the end of the bus from the extra PCB trace distance and connector. The short of it is, because of signal integrity.
@@GameTechReviewswhy doesn't they just flip A1 and B1 180deg?.. so they don't have to do longer traces? I just solved the 1mil dollar question, pay me motherboard makers 😂
@@GameTechReviews you just explained urself, that A2 and B2 are at the end of the bus (at the end of the Wire), and A1 goes first, and A2 goes second. Why did you draw lines on the video in opposite order? Daisy Chain should go from Cpu to A1 first, and A2 second, not the other way around.
the drawing on vid is wrong, motherboards don't run traces to A2 first, its A1 first and A2 second, because its silly. They just ask u to insert memory in slot 2 instead of slot 1.
I was looking for some quantitative results on the DDR5 dual rank config, still looking. This discussion was interesting but also incorrect as it uses DDR4 design which doesn't apply to DDR5 and other misleading concepts, RAM is a confusing technology that we often take for granted. The main thing is that everything we think we know about dual channel needs to be tossed out with DDR5 because each module is dual channel by itself and the IMC 'channels' are now connected across the sockets in a mesh. RAM slots needing to be populated 2 slots at a time to achieve dual channel is a DDR4 (and lower) concept. Two main changes in DDR5 is doubling of banks (not the same as ranks) and dual channel on one module. nobody is running 6000MHz RAM, that is 6000MT RAM running at 3000MHz (similar for DDR4), ram vendors are pushing the MHz notation. I was looking for a trace laout but I suspect the traces don't go to the further slot first to explain why that slot is the 'faster' slot. I think it has to do with the electrical termination and reflections rather than trace distance. the further one is easier to control the signal quality because its the end of the trace and termination is on the module. Adding a 2nd module in the middle of the daisy chain degrades the signal clarity and pushes the eye-charts outside acceptible ranges. all MB I've used you can put the RAM in any slot so there's no 'open circuits' as noted in the design. maybe there are some, I've never seen them. The excess load on the IMC is a real limiter to overall speed when you add more modules / ranks.
4 sticks gets you about half the mhz as 2 sticks. Go with 2 sticks of higher speed and capacity over 4 sticks running slower speeds unless you actually need that much ram. Unless your computer is a workhorse for rendering or production, most people don't need 4 sticks.
2x16 is trash I have 8000mhz 2x16 but reduced the frequency to 7200mhz and tightened the Timmings my average fps and 1% low fps are good but my 0.1 fps is so bad this shit was driving me crazy so just ordered a 2x32 6800mhz ram kit
I'm sorry but unless you are only running benchmarks who cares. Your talking about maybe losing 2fps because of 4 sticks but dramatically increase your bandwith 4 sticks is way better in-fact quad channel is even better actually increasing fps in AMD TR wx cpus by like 40+ fps
Currently running 2 sticks of 16Gb DDR5 and was looking to upgrade to a total of 64Gb. Your saying I'm better off just buying a kit with 2 sticks of 32Gb than buying another of the same kit i already have right?
@@GameTechReviews Thanks man appreciate your help. Now I can just get another kit instead of a whole new 2 stick 64Gb kit. Hey just out of curiosity I went in to HWinfo and saw this... "[16 GB] DDR5-5600 / PC5-44800 DDR5 SDRAM UDIMM, B-Die, 1R, PMIC: Richtek Power" Assume the 1R means single rank?
Multiple DDR5 memory chips can be mounted on a circuit board to form memory modules. For use in personal computers and servers, DDR5 memory is usually supplied in 288-pin dual in-line memory modules, more commonly known as DIMMs. As with previous memory generations, there are multiple DIMM variants available for DDR5. Unbuffered memory modules (UDIMMs) directly expose the memory chip interface to the module connector. Registered or load-reduced variants (RDIMMs/LRDIMMs) use additional active circuitry on the memory module in order to buffer the signals between the memory controller and the DRAM chips. This reduces the capacitive load on the DDR5 bus. DDR5 RDIMMs/LRDIMMs use 12 V and UDIMMs use 5 V input. In order to prevent damage by accidental insertion of the wrong memory type, DDR5 UDIMMs and (L)RDIMMs are not mechanically compatible. Additionally, DDR5 DIMMs are supplied with management interface power at 3.3 V, and use on-board circuitry (a power management integrated circuit and associated passive components) to convert to the lower voltage required by the memory chips. Final voltage regulation close to the point of use provides more stable power, and mirrors the development of voltage regulator modules for CPU power supplies. I mean no disrespect but almost everything in this video is absolutely wrong for synchronistic dynamic double data rate random access memory. From launch from Asus bios like 700 or 600 I forget I've been able to run 64 and 96g @ 6400 without touching timings in the slightest only thing I changed is the voltage. I run 6400 at 2167 f clock when the new a Agesa came out AMD was able to do 8,000 to 9,000 mega transfers in 2t mem==uclk l/2. They also introduced nitro in a later Agesa. Each channel of RAM each dim of RAM has a visual electric circuitry going directly to the memory module.... So unless if you running dual sticks of dual rank RAM that would be horribly redundant and stupid I don't know who would even try that. Nonetheless it's the first time we've ever been able to do this in human history so it's quite a misconception and I'm in communication with the best overclockers on the planet for RAM configuration. And this is just the biggest misconception. So I mean zeeeeroooo direspect it's just not correct anymore Yes it was correct with DDR4 it's not correct with DDR5 it's completely different. But raising the FLCK is the biggest improvement I've ever seen with RAM get a 15 to 20 FPS booth on every AAA game I own across the board.
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![4 STICKs DDR5 + XMP = NO BOOT .... Why It's still an issue! [+ tips & Workarounds]](/img/n.gif)
This was the best video I've seen explaining the 2 vs 4 stick debate.
yes definitely. i feel like i went through all of youtube and then finally found this after weeks of looking
Yeam same, awesome clip.
the explanation is completely wrong and inaccurate. Starting from the point that A1 is connected first, and A2 connected second, thats why it named A1 and A2. and not A2 and A1.
@@darvamehleran786 yeah, its not about length, its about processing speed/maximum frequency available to read signal on1 wire from 2 sources.
@@kag46 yes about the weird behavior on daisy topology probably. And also an exposed A2 slot creates huge interference for the A1 slot, because of the Open Circuit effect (where A2 is that circuit). Since all termination comes from ramsticks.
Dude, you have no idea how many videos I've been trying to find just for this simple answer. There was no over-talk at all; you got straight to the point. Simply amazing dude the example was perfect. Thank you so much
Exactly
Perfectly stated. ✅✅✅✅
the explanation is completely wrong. You have to put sticks in A2 and B2 for the "channel termination", since Terminators are placed om ram sticks itself. When sticks are in A1 and B1, A2 and B2 will work as an open circuit and cause interference.
But having all 4 slots filled up looks better than having 2 empty slots.
True
@@Justakatto looking good doesn't mean its gonna perform better in terms of read & write, performance wise its better A2, B2 only
You can buy a fake Ram 😁 just RGB
No it doesn’t… when you have 2 empty slots you have space for an upgrade, with 4 slots you don’t…….
Is like it's missing half a brain. I pay for them slot's you bet I'm using them
Definitely much needed info! Appreciate the amount of time that I know it took you to test all of this on both platforms!
I love the way you explained the issue of placing 2 sticks vs 4 sticks and the A2 and B2 for only 2 sticks. Very good job, Sir.
Fast, concise, and straight to the point. Much appreciated.
BEST answer I've found, thank you for breaking it down simply.
So unfortunate that DDR5 was so expensive when I had to upgrade to AM5, now I’m at 2x16GB and can’t really upgrade without making it worse or throwing the old kit away 😂
That's incorrect. If you do 2 more 16. It works fine.
@@TheSkepticSkwerl Weren’t there performance issues with using more than 2 sticks?
@@chaotus Nope. Ryzen benefits from 4 sticks of ram. Its important to know if your motherboard is daisy chain ram sticks or T-topology. This little detail is not mentioned in the video. What he is talking about is probably about daisy chain ram topology. If you have T-topology, you can reach high ram speeds with all slots filled.
I succesfully clocked 128GB to a decent speed. 4 x 32GB of ddr5 to 5600mhz. I used two Teamgroup T-Created 2x32GB kits. They use Hynix A-die. I am on am MSI Tomahawk z790 and have an I9-13900k. So far I have been unable to post with RAM clocked past 6000mhz and I'm pretty sure that's the limit of the motherboard according to the spec sheet.
That is on Intel. For AM5, things are a little different for now
You're using dual rank sticks? 4x16gb single rank sticks and 6000mhz works like a charm.
very good and easy to understand explanation, thanks :D
Agreed. Click Subscribe. hope he do explanation on other parts pc also
Clear explanations. Great job ❤
This is the best way it's ever been explained 👍🏾
Very nice explanation. I didn't want to return my RAM so I just decided to stick with 64 GB at 5200mhz even though they are 6000mhz ram. I did a bunch of testing and the FPS was negligible
I purchased a new PC a month ago which had two DD5 sticks for a total of 32gb. I purchased the same type of memory and added another two sticks so I now have 4 sticks for a total of 64gb. I was so pleasantly surprised the computer booted like normal and in task manager it showed 64gb running at 6000 speed which is what they were rated at.
Apparently there was a update this summer
Wow you really gave me some knowledge today lol 😂. Thanks
lul
I wish I saw this video before I went through the headache with my DDR5 4 sticks @ 6400 for the last 2 days. I couldn't run it in XMP without my games crashing to desktop...So I'm running 4x16gb not using XMP until my 2x32gb comes in on Tuesday lol.
Update: 2x32gb works perfectly
also dont forget the mhz also
@solo6965 right, been working perfectly with 2 sticks at 6400 mhz
@@Jalex8975 yo man, i just bought some 2x32gb ddr5 kit for my ryzen 9 7900x. It comes with xmp and expo compatibility at 6400cl32. You think running at xmp/expo settings is going to work without issues? i have the latest bios which seems to have improved this stability problems. I just want to use 64gb 6400.
@LethaR_YT can't speak too much on AMD but I know these intel CPUs don't like for sticks of ram @xmp settings. Constantly was crashing to desktop mid game. Got the same ram but 2x32gb at the same speed of 6400 and its worked flawlessly. I'll take function over looks from now on lol
Multiple DDR5 memory chips can be mounted on a circuit board to form memory modules. For use in personal computers and servers, DDR5 memory is usually supplied in 288-pin dual in-line memory modules, more commonly known as DIMMs. As with previous memory generations, there are multiple DIMM variants available for DDR5.
Unbuffered memory modules (UDIMMs) directly expose the memory chip interface to the module connector. Registered or load-reduced variants (RDIMMs/LRDIMMs) use additional active circuitry on the memory module in order to buffer the signals between the memory controller and the DRAM chips. This reduces the capacitive load on the DDR5 bus.
DDR5 RDIMMs/LRDIMMs use 12 V and UDIMMs use 5 V input. In order to prevent damage by accidental insertion of the wrong memory type, DDR5 UDIMMs and (L)RDIMMs are not mechanically compatible. Additionally, DDR5 DIMMs are supplied with management interface power at 3.3 V,and use on-board circuitry (a power management integrated circuit and associated passive components) to convert to the lower voltage required by the memory chips. Final voltage regulation close to the point of use provides more stable power, and mirrors the development of voltage regulator modules for CPU power supplies.
Almost everything in this video is absolutely wrong. Like I mean no just disrespect whatsoever.
Since ASUS BIOS version 700 I've been able to run four sticks of udim SDRAM at 6, 400m/t without touching the single timing without adjusting any voltages right out the box. When the new a Agesa came out then every benchmarker in the world was now able to do 2t instead of just 1t. And people were able to do 8,000 9,000 mega transfers stable because of nitro. Personally I run 1t with an f clock raise to 2167 64 GB 6400 mega transfers and raising that infinity clock was really the main difference here that's what created a 15 to 20 FPS boost in every AAA game I own across the board. We've been able to do 64gb and 96 GB at above 6,400 to 6600 1T right out the box without adjusting timing. The only thing here is if you want to run above 6400 out the box with primaries you have to adjust the voltage. SD RAM or synchronous dynamic random access memory has its own on board circuitry on the memory module. This is the first time in human history that we've ever been able to do this. But this is a huge misconception but where most people go wrong is where you use dual rank or single rank That's where the people go wrong cuz if you're running four dims of dual rank that is so redundant. Then you're just wasting two lanes of your entire four-channel integrated memory controller. Hope this helps and enjoy And I mean zero disrespect I'm just trying to show information that is right in front of my face on a hardware level and then usable and stable in the OEM.
So breaking it down so a newbie pc builder can understand it. Should I concern myself with picking 4x16 vs 2x32 (ddr5) or doesn't it matter which i choose?
Now I understand why EVGA released a K|NGP|N mobo with only two slots.
You gotta play with voltage and manual timings to get up to 6000, with 4 sticks, it's possible but takes a lot of tinkering, very much not a plug and play situation
I had used non QLV 2 stick rams and added 2 more same code, never had problems but depends how much performance you get more than 4 sticks, if it's worth it or not over RGB 4 sticks looking awesome 🙌
TH-cam algorithm really worked for once. Was searching for a simple explanation on google for weeks.
I'm pretty sure it's the opposite reasoning for a2 and B2, it goes through a1 first the a2, but when it comes back from an empty slot it is more likely to get corrupted, that's what I thought, not better performance but more stability.
thats correct. exposed A2 and B2 creates an open circuit, that can damage the signal. While exposed A1 and B1 does not create an open circuit.
Seems like motherboard makers should stop releasing 4 slot RAM boards on anything but business-class boards.
well explained good video
You can do way more than 6000 on 4x16GB depending on timings
he said on 128 and 192 big sticks haha
thank you bro ;)
But past reviews by other channels show games "run better" on systems using 4 sticks vs 2 with same total memory size. This pretty much contradicts your opinion, which also doesn't prove anything either
Thank you.
But if you run 4 single rank sticks they become duel rank and memory interleaving enters the equation. Ryzen 5000 loves interleaving memory. Gamer Nexus demonstrated good increases in frame rates in games using 4 sticks for dual rank that more than make up for the added latency.
On the DDR4 Intel boards: I can't get DDR4 4000 @ CL18 to work when using 4x432GB on my Z790 board but 128GB of 3600 CL18 will run XMP in gear 1 just fine.
My rig hates 4x16 DDR5, gets real quirky. Works but RGB doesn't control correctly. So I run 32gb and it's fine, just hate the empty slots.
Check out the video I did in January about 192gb DDR5.
I've built 2 PCs and finally understand why the book says to use 2 particular slots if you're running 2 sticks.
Hey, i have a b550f
I have 2 sticks of ram in a2-b2.
Because in a1-b2 doesn’t turn on the pc. Not sure if that happen to you too.
I was thinking into buy 2 more and have 4 (but from different brands because the mine is discontinued) but not sure if with 4 will turn off it too like if use only two in the not proper slots
the most useful video ever made
I am sorry. This is completely wrong.
Daisy Chain Topology connects a data wire from CPU socket pin to A1 pin first then to A2 pin. Same for B1 first, and B2 second. You have to populate A2 and B2 first because these slots are at the END of the Wire, and ram sticks will work there as Terminators. Empty A2 and B2 will cause interference, by creating an open circuit, while empty A1/B1 does not. Literally Everything Wrong in this video.
DDR4 has no problems on Daisy Chain wiring (DDR4 4xR1 and 2xR2 works the same), so this video does not explain why DDR5 why 2xR2 is better than 4xR1, and how it possibly have to do with the wiring topology Inside the Dual Rank module and DDR5 memory controller itself.
Read about Daisy Chain Topology and T-Topology yourself and how wires really placed on motherboards, and the difference between dual rank and single rank.
Information in this video may get you into troubles.
I was about to write the same thing myself, but figured I'd check the comments first.
You can quite literally see the traces on some motherboards, and its clear as day that daisy chain doesnt go to A2\B2 first. And on T-topology boards you can see the trace split up in order to get the same tracelength on both dimms. I got no idea where this guy got his information from, but it really isnt great.
In the real world, 4 sticks gives more fps in games. 2 sticks is good for stable ram at very high speeds which should cancel out the 4 stick advantage....in theory.
I have 4x16GB 3200 cl 16 on Intel z690, I couldnt get xmp to work on 3200, only could do xmp 2 for 3000, what you say makes sence.
I also later heard getting 4 sticks on the exact xmp often causes issues. My 2 kits are the same, the timings are identical. You live and you learn, 3000 isnt the end of the world,
the greed in me wants some 4000 cl 16 g.skill-s.
He's talking about DDR5 not DDR4
This is the case only for motherboards with daisy chain ram topology. I don't think it applies to T-topology.
If I get this right. I'm currently looking at 16GB sticks, x2, they are single rank. It will be fine to later get 2 more. Case that will get to 4 ranks total. And the current struggle is if you have 2 dual rank sticks. Adding will be an issue.
Yes, 4 single rank is fine. The challenge is with 4x32gb or 4x48gb (128 or 192gb).
Isnt running 4 single rank rams equal to runing 2 dual rank rams sticks in am5
Then y there is 6800mhz dual rank sticks and i couldnt get same speed with 4 single rank sticks???
in theory Dual Rank implements different Topology, if u place 4 sticks in motherboard, u follow the motherboard topology, and this topology is usually the Daisy Chain one. But Dual Rank memory stick creates something close to T-Topology. Probably DDR5 really likes T-Topology, while DDR4 does not care.
Also on vid the Daisy Chain Topology should go from A1 to A2, not the other way, and its only connects pins (its not like 1 stick sits on 1 wire xd)
Very nice to learn nothing new. 😊 ty
what about latency tightening? cant we just do 4x16gb 4800/5200mhz but tighten it to cl21 or lower if possible?
I didn't know that about PCs. I thought all slots had their own traces, not two sharing from two others. Maybe I don't want an Matx board.
Honestly, at this point I wish they'd just sell "dummy"-sticks, so ONCE in my life I could have that 4-sticks-optic. It's always been "maybe I want to double RAM at some point" which never happens before buying a new CPU.
I read that on the 7800X3D, running 4 sticks is better, not just for fps, but more importantly for the 1% and 0.1% drops. If it is only a 1-2 fps drop by increasing to 4 sticks but you are also improving your 1 and 0.1% drop it seems extremely worth it to me. Some of these increases seem to be more evident in multiplayer games. I also read, that people were getting even more benefits by installing dual sticks. I know DDR5 is already dual rank, but by installing ram that has chips on both sides of each stick you would effectively be at 4 ranks. Note, I'm not concerned about my accuracy on what ranks are. I was just trying to explain what I meant, simply. Anyways, I would love your thoughts on using the "7800X3D" with 4 sticks and/or each stick having chips on both sides. AMD has stated that the sweet spot for ram on the 7800X3D is 6000MHz, so I might as well focus my efforts elsewhere, rather than overclocking. If any of those configurations net even small increases it would be worth it to me. Thank you very much.
Two dual rank DIMMS still offer the best experience. Less latency, more memory bandwidth. 2x32gb DDR5 is similar to 4 channels of DDR4.
Brother let me ask you one thing if we use Corsair platinum dominater ddr5 which design is single ranked it's not dual ranked .. So can I use 4x16 ??? Will it be good ..than using 2x32 gb ? As many also had errors while running it ... Also the CPU and motherboard is high end
I wonder, with slightly looser timings could that help with the longer delay getting to A1/B1? I know that'd hurt performance but if you could get enough extra speed out of it, it could be worth the trade.
Although, on my 4790k/DDR3 build- 4 sticks of pretty much the same speed outdoes 2 sticks, maybe that it was x4 4gb vs x2 8gb and that lower capacity makes a difference. I even still have the number 2 firestrike CPU score for a 4790k/5700xt combo using 4 sticks. I know I could have gotten #1 if I'd just tweaked a little more but I'd been overclocking for a couple Weeks and was ready to move on.
If your running 128 or 256 gigs of ram. You arent as worried about ram speed.
Came across this whole researching to build a hybrid VFX and production PC that will be for gaming whenever I'm not working. For new X870e AM5 boards with the latest BIOS, is doing 4x32 DDR5 6000 CL30 still not possible? Has this improved sonce the video is posted? What ram kit(s) do you recommend for this if possible?
Awesome explanation👍👍👍
im running 4x16gb at 5600 mhz
7800x3d
Is that the fastest ur ram will go mhz wise? Or is it capped because u use 4 slots?
Im asking because i have 2x16gb ddr5 at 6000 mhz but i want to go to 4x16gb
Im running four sticks at 5600 Mhz
thanx
Oh? Then how do you explain the 96g 4x24 of ram I have running 6000, on AM5 of all things? Corsair CMP96GX5M4B6000C30 works perfectly fine for me at 6000 and "tight" timings. Yes it was a pain in the a$$ to get working, but it works perfectly stable, every time. Previously I had 2x32 running at 7200 and it was mostly stable with tight timings, but CL36 rather than CL30.
MSI B650 G+W
R7 7800X3D
RX 7900XTX Sapphire N+
As I don't want to get into to this too deep, can someone just tell me if it's wise/ beneficial to upgrade my 2x16gb to 4x16gb ddr5?
i have
ACER Predator Orion 3000 Intel Core™ i7 14700F Prozessor, 16 GB RAM ddr5 (64 Bit) should i buy 8 x 2 and use all four slots or buy 16 x 2 new and use only 2 slots?
So which is best latency 2x16gb or 2x32gb?
4x32gb both running in dual channel is much quicker
So what if you got 4 sticks of 16 would it be better to run only 32 total gigs or all 4 for 64gb
I have the same question. I was told it's better 2 have rams of 32 than having 4 of 16.
If you aren't using the rams total capacity, then yes 2 sticks is better. If your workload requires that much ram than you gotta deal with the slower speeds. Having more ram than you need to have 4 slots filled isn't better than 2 sticks running faster.
@@okioki1131oh ok. Now I understood. For gods sake I had to find the answer to my question in an reply to a random comment under a TH-cam video of a TH-camr with 10k followers lol
Thanks bro
Sorry for a dumb question, but can it be really so significant that the wire length to pass through A2 and B2 slots?
As far as I know, the electricity runs as fast as the speed of light which can fly around the Earth 7.5 times in a single second.
the explanation on video is incorrect. Wire goes tru A1 and B1 slot first, and A2 and B2 slots second, NOT the other way around. A wire from CPU socket goes from left to right. And crosses A1 pin first, and A2 pin second. Thats why we must place ram sticks in A2 and B2, because this wire needs termination at the END of the wire.
wow no wonder my quest 2 stucks on ATS i have 4x8=32
4x4gb vs 2x8gb vs 1x16gb DDR4 ?
What about quad channel?
I use amd 7950X 3d mainboard just B650 edge. 4 stick 16X4 only run stable 3600MHZ. I can't get (4800~6000)XMP or Expo running stable >
Are you on the latest bios?
Okay a bit confused and need help. I originaly bought 2 x 16gb GSkill Z5 DDR5 6800 RAM but as it was so cheap, I bought fanother 2 of the exact same ram for £130 once I installed all 4 sticks I could not get 6800 to run under XMP but it worked perfectly with XMP at 6000Mhz. Is there a way to get them to run at 6800Mhz or have I reached the limit for 4 sticks..RAM settings are so confusing. Also on Z790
i payed for 4 slots i am going to use 4 slots
Will I notice a difference in gaming between 2x32gb ddr5 6000 and 4x16gb ddr5 6000?
Yes. In general 2x32 will outperform 4x16.
@@GameTechReviews thank you for the answer. But is it more like 1-2fps or 10-20? I am just a little worried to spend too much money for a very small improvement.
@@LosHoleshottos It's more like 1-2 fps. I wouldn't worry about it if you are already running 4x16.
@@GameTechReviews perfect, thank you!!
So if i use Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 64 GB (4 x 16 GB) DDR5-6200 CL32 on my Asus ROG Crosshair X670E Hero it would be fine?
Yes.
@@GameTechReviewsI wish it was possible for me, I have the x670 Hero and 4 x Corsair dominator titanium 6000 CL30 and I cannot get it past 3600. Works fine with 2 sticks on EXPO for full speed on 6000 and 6200 profile without issue. I’ve spent days trying different settings and termination values to get 4 sticks and a decent speed and it says nope every time. No idea what I can do other than to get rid of this memory and buy something else! Any suggestions?
Is there such a thing as 2 x 64GB and is that even a good idea? Maybe on an M-ATX or ITX board? Thank you.
Currently only goes up to a 48g stick put out by Crucial...
And yet, physically, A1 is closest to the CPU - why didn't they wire that first? Same for B1? Even better, make A2 B1? ;)
because A1 is wired first, and A2 wired second, I have no idea where the picture on video came from.
@@darvamehleran786 That's incorrect.
I'm talking about 02:08 onwards. My own (and all) x670e are wired the same...one stick use goes into A2, 2 sticks A2 and B2. Physically, A1 is closest (and B1 on the B channel).
@@ChrisM541 this video is incorrect, the wire from CPU goes to A1 first, then it goes to A2. That's why they have numbers 1 and 2, and not 2 and 1. Its called Daisy Chain Topology, you can read about it.
You place sticks in A2 and B2 because memory sticks also works as line Terminators, and you have to put Terminators at the END of the line, otherwise "exposed" END will cause interference.
Well my friend, please help me here because I have been having some real trouble for months now trying to run 4x16 on ASUS x670E Hero with a 7950x3D. I have tried several combinations, whet do you syuggest?
Are you on the latest bios?
try manual set for the rams, and down clock it abit
4x32 it is!
Question: Why do they run the traces to A2/B2 first instead of A1/A2 since they are closer?
It has to do with signal quality and the wire bus termination. The DDR5 memory provide adjustable bus terminations (this is user configurable in the bios) and putting the only active DIMM for each channel on each channel's last slot (A2 and B2) puts them at the end of the bus where those bus terminations will be most effective at mitigating signal reflections. This should give the best chance at trouble-free operation. The unterminated bus stub from an unpopulated DIMM slot before the bus termination is less disruptive than a 10-15mm stub at the end of the bus from the extra PCB trace distance and connector.
The short of it is, because of signal integrity.
@@GameTechReviewswhy doesn't they just flip A1 and B1 180deg?.. so they don't have to do longer traces? I just solved the 1mil dollar question, pay me motherboard makers 😂
@@GameTechReviews you just explained urself, that A2 and B2 are at the end of the bus (at the end of the Wire), and A1 goes first, and A2 goes second. Why did you draw lines on the video in opposite order? Daisy Chain should go from Cpu to A1 first, and A2 second, not the other way around.
the drawing on vid is wrong, motherboards don't run traces to A2 first, its A1 first and A2 second, because its silly. They just ask u to insert memory in slot 2 instead of slot 1.
I was looking for some quantitative results on the DDR5 dual rank config, still looking. This discussion was interesting but also incorrect as it uses DDR4 design which doesn't apply to DDR5 and other misleading concepts, RAM is a confusing technology that we often take for granted. The main thing is that everything we think we know about dual channel needs to be tossed out with DDR5 because each module is dual channel by itself and the IMC 'channels' are now connected across the sockets in a mesh. RAM slots needing to be populated 2 slots at a time to achieve dual channel is a DDR4 (and lower) concept. Two main changes in DDR5 is doubling of banks (not the same as ranks) and dual channel on one module. nobody is running 6000MHz RAM, that is 6000MT RAM running at 3000MHz (similar for DDR4), ram vendors are pushing the MHz notation. I was looking for a trace laout but I suspect the traces don't go to the further slot first to explain why that slot is the 'faster' slot. I think it has to do with the electrical termination and reflections rather than trace distance. the further one is easier to control the signal quality because its the end of the trace and termination is on the module. Adding a 2nd module in the middle of the daisy chain degrades the signal clarity and pushes the eye-charts outside acceptible ranges. all MB I've used you can put the RAM in any slot so there's no 'open circuits' as noted in the design. maybe there are some, I've never seen them. The excess load on the IMC is a real limiter to overall speed when you add more modules / ranks.
ddr4 channel work the same?
Yes
So is there a motherboard with A1, B1, C1 and D1? Just asking
No
@@thefacelessone74 why it is not possible 🤔
Threadripper
clickbait: you tested nothing and 4x can be improve it not much but can
Will it make difference in a high end pc?
4 sticks gets you about half the mhz as 2 sticks. Go with 2 sticks of higher speed and capacity over 4 sticks running slower speeds unless you actually need that much ram. Unless your computer is a workhorse for rendering or production, most people don't need 4 sticks.
extra fps why not, extra 20 multiplied by 5 different tuning is 100fps thats alot
2x16 is trash I have 8000mhz 2x16 but reduced the frequency to 7200mhz and tightened the Timmings my average fps and 1% low fps are good but my 0.1 fps is so bad this shit was driving me crazy so just ordered a 2x32 6800mhz ram kit
❤❤❤❤❤❤
Weldone
I'm sorry but unless you are only running benchmarks who cares. Your talking about maybe losing 2fps because of 4 sticks but dramatically increase your bandwith 4 sticks is way better in-fact quad channel is even better actually increasing fps in AMD TR wx cpus by like 40+ fps
Umm.. Quad channel has double memory bandwidth(256bit). Who cares about unnoticeable latency. Z790 & 4 sticks = this is the way
both speed and channel matter for intel ddr5 too
ddr4 isnt
What you on about I can run 128gb 4 sticks all at 6000mhz dual rank.
Currently running 2 sticks of 16Gb DDR5 and was looking to upgrade to a total of 64Gb. Your saying I'm better off just buying a kit with 2 sticks of 32Gb than buying another of the same kit i already have right?
4x16gb should work fine. It's once you go to dual rank that things like higher speed becomes unobtainable.
@@GameTechReviews Ah OK so its worth checking if current kit is single or dual rank?
@@nflikt If it's 16gb per stick it's single rank. If it's 32gb it's dual rank. 4x16gb is single rank 2x32gb is dual rank.
@@GameTechReviews Thanks man appreciate your help. Now I can just get another kit instead of a whole new 2 stick 64Gb kit.
Hey just out of curiosity I went in to HWinfo and saw this...
"[16 GB] DDR5-5600 / PC5-44800 DDR5 SDRAM UDIMM, B-Die, 1R, PMIC: Richtek Power"
Assume the 1R means single rank?
@@nflikt Yes, 1R means single rank.
Multiple DDR5 memory chips can be mounted on a circuit board to form memory modules. For use in personal computers and servers, DDR5 memory is usually supplied in 288-pin dual in-line memory modules, more commonly known as DIMMs. As with previous memory generations, there are multiple DIMM variants available for DDR5.
Unbuffered memory modules (UDIMMs) directly expose the memory chip interface to the module connector. Registered or load-reduced variants (RDIMMs/LRDIMMs) use additional active circuitry on the memory module in order to buffer the signals between the memory controller and the DRAM chips. This reduces the capacitive load on the DDR5 bus.
DDR5 RDIMMs/LRDIMMs use 12 V and UDIMMs use 5 V input. In order to prevent damage by accidental insertion of the wrong memory type, DDR5 UDIMMs and (L)RDIMMs are not mechanically compatible. Additionally, DDR5 DIMMs are supplied with management interface power at 3.3 V, and use on-board circuitry (a power management integrated circuit and associated passive components) to convert to the lower voltage required by the memory chips. Final voltage regulation close to the point of use provides more stable power, and mirrors the development of voltage regulator modules for CPU power supplies.
I mean no disrespect but almost everything in this video is absolutely wrong for synchronistic dynamic double data rate random access memory.
From launch from Asus bios like 700 or 600 I forget I've been able to run 64 and 96g @ 6400 without touching timings in the slightest only thing I changed is the voltage.
I run 6400 at 2167 f clock when the new a Agesa came out AMD was able to do 8,000 to 9,000 mega transfers in 2t mem==uclk l/2. They also introduced nitro in a later Agesa. Each channel of RAM each dim of RAM has a visual electric circuitry going directly to the memory module.... So unless if you running dual sticks of dual rank RAM that would be horribly redundant and stupid I don't know who would even try that. Nonetheless it's the first time we've ever been able to do this in human history so it's quite a misconception and I'm in communication with the best overclockers on the planet for RAM configuration. And this is just the biggest misconception. So I mean zeeeeroooo direspect it's just not correct anymore Yes it was correct with DDR4 it's not correct with DDR5 it's completely different. But raising the FLCK is the biggest improvement I've ever seen with RAM get a 15 to 20 FPS booth on every AAA game I own across the board.