1000 runs at Windrock is definitely enough of a durability test!!! Lol! Doubt a lot of bikes out there can handle that abuse! Bike is looking sick!! Once you get it the way you want it... please put them in the Windrock rental fleet! I'd love to ride one!
Great to hear about the refinements. Interesting that the separate links gives you better compliance. I'd bet you're on the right track thinking about joining the links forward of the seat tube. That bit about gussets - I went to UBI's CrMo brazing school in '03. We touched a bit on gussets and the thought offered to us students was to avoid creating a worse stress riser than what you're trying to alleviate. Open gussets were suggested (like your "fingernail" type), rather than closed. The closed kind create a beer can opener effect on the tube at the distal end. The other thing stressed at UBI was to incorporate gussets wisely by keeping the tube's butt length in mind -- don't join a gusset past the butt's enhanced thickness.
Thanks for being so open with your information and learning process. I'm new to mountain bikes (August 2022) and very keen on building some frames and suspension components using some of my ideas from motocross racing. The shock bolt and linkage plates may actually be solved by engineering a bit more flex into your seat-stays and running the rigid link. You could change the design of the tabs on those seat-stays so that they are inboard of the link plates. The offset in those tabs could form a wishbone when assembled. If narrow enough, you could run a spherical bearing there to reduce rigidity further and take the bending stresses off the bolt.
With the unconnected rocker and the fact that you're bending shock bolts, I would be paying attention to the coil shock. They've been known to wear at a faster rate when there's side to side flex (such as on yoke driven bikes, notoriously the stumpjumper)
Frank used to do the finger nail gussets with no weld on the end when he made the Sinister R9's. It's interesting to me that he didn't start your version 1 that way. Also, could you bring the front of your rocker pivot arms together a bit (like the RAAW frames). I know it would be a lot more machining work, but might be worth it if you are final on the pivot geometry. Anyways, love the videos and the geekyness. I'm definitely living through you. Would be a dream to design my own frame one day!
Neko, have you considered a spherical bearing on the shock eyelet and each side of the rocker arm? It should ad a bit of a moment release on that 10mm bolt and reduce bending loads
Love seeing this project thrive. Super glad to see that uptube got fixed. You should absolutely put a brace between the rocker main pivot and shock eye mount to stop bending those bolts.
In your next video can you touch on what kind of brakes you've been running for the race season and what changes you made along the way? I noticed a Shimano/TRP set up in one of your videos and am surely not the only curious person out there. Thanks for the awesome content and deep nerdery!
Neko - I had a HT gusset with a cross weld on an old steel frame. The frame snapped across the frame through the HAZ of the gusset weld. I am guessing this is why no one welds across HT gussets as it creates a weakness across the frame.
I find it so interesting that you and the team at RAAW came up with a design that looks very similar from afar. I’m sure there are differences in the details, but have you ever picked their brains at the races to see if they’re having similar challenges (shock bolts as an example)? At any rate, keep up the great work and I’m excited for next season!
You may want to try joining the 2 links with some sort of hard rubber or a flexible material? Would allow them to flex (and tunable by width) but may be just enough ridgidness for the bolt not to break.
500 runs! You'll be riding it plenty hard enough 😂 What about a 'keyed' rocker link bolt? Kinda like the session. Keeps those links in line. Plus Linkage hardware prob stays tight better...? Also just curious are you using a Oneup axle? They're solid 7075, total game changer for me, especially on the yeti, has enough frame flex and tire rub LOL Cheers dude. Awesome work!
Coming from a FSAE background many teams run custom shock eyes. maybe thats something to consider regarding the shockbold problem. you could also use spherical bearings on the shock to minimize bending loads on the damper-rod. would definitely result in a more sensitive shock. edit: on the new fox-shocks that could be more difficult with the adjuster but its definitely not a huge issue
@@jakubgabris6901 if you manufacture the shock-eye yourself you can easily make it a16mm bore instead of 15mm and fit a standard spherical bearing. (if you need a bigger shock-bolt youd have to use a bigger diameter obviously) that was my whole point 😅
Big companies have multiple ambassadors/athletes they can get a new bike under, and they have test rigs that can subject the bike to thousands of cycles of testing in a relatively compressed timeframe because they can run 24/7. The Fox Dialed series showed one of their development facilities and they have a unit setup that simulates a fork running down a world cup DH course at race pace, and they just let it go for thousands of repetitions.
![ภาพนี้ก็ฮาเหมือนกันนะเนี้ย #1 SS8 [ พากย์นรก MEME.EXE ] | easy boy](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ytc50m91QK8/mqdefault.jpg)
absolutely love this series man as someone currently pursuing engineering really appreciate the detail and transparency.
1000 runs at Windrock is definitely enough of a durability test!!! Lol! Doubt a lot of bikes out there can handle that abuse! Bike is looking sick!! Once you get it the way you want it... please put them in the Windrock rental fleet! I'd love to ride one!
I put the order in on day one.
@@seanleader can I buy it off demo?
Great to hear about the refinements. Interesting that the separate links gives you better compliance. I'd bet you're on the right track thinking about joining the links forward of the seat tube.
That bit about gussets - I went to UBI's CrMo brazing school in '03. We touched a bit on gussets and the thought offered to us students was to avoid creating a worse stress riser than what you're trying to alleviate. Open gussets were suggested (like your "fingernail" type), rather than closed. The closed kind create a beer can opener effect on the tube at the distal end. The other thing stressed at UBI was to incorporate gussets wisely by keeping the tube's butt length in mind -- don't join a gusset past the butt's enhanced thickness.
Thanks for being so open with your information and learning process.
I'm new to mountain bikes (August 2022) and very keen on building some frames and suspension components using some of my ideas from motocross racing.
The shock bolt and linkage plates may actually be solved by engineering a bit more flex into your seat-stays and running the rigid link.
You could change the design of the tabs on those seat-stays so that they are inboard of the link plates. The offset in those tabs could form a wishbone when assembled. If narrow enough, you could run a spherical bearing there to reduce rigidity further and take the bending stresses off the bolt.
With the unconnected rocker and the fact that you're bending shock bolts, I would be paying attention to the coil shock. They've been known to wear at a faster rate when there's side to side flex (such as on yoke driven bikes, notoriously the stumpjumper)
Frank used to do the finger nail gussets with no weld on the end when he made the Sinister R9's. It's interesting to me that he didn't start your version 1 that way.
Also, could you bring the front of your rocker pivot arms together a bit (like the RAAW frames). I know it would be a lot more machining work, but might be worth it if you are final on the pivot geometry.
Anyways, love the videos and the geekyness. I'm definitely living through you. Would be a dream to design my own frame one day!
Neko, have you considered a spherical bearing on the shock eyelet and each side of the rocker arm? It should ad a bit of a moment release on that 10mm bolt and reduce bending loads
Great series! I always enjoy these in-depth explanations! Thanks for posting
A very interesting in-depth explanation of everything!! Love this so much! All the best for the future!!!
Good stuff Neko! Cant wait to see what your testing in the upcoming vids!
Love seeing this project thrive. Super glad to see that uptube got fixed. You should absolutely put a brace between the rocker main pivot and shock eye mount to stop bending those bolts.
Best series on TH-cam.
In your next video can you touch on what kind of brakes you've been running for the race season and what changes you made along the way? I noticed a Shimano/TRP set up in one of your videos and am surely not the only curious person out there.
Thanks for the awesome content and deep nerdery!
Thanks for another great vid!!!
Great work,keep it going
Neko - I had a HT gusset with a cross weld on an old steel frame. The frame snapped across the frame through the HAZ of the gusset weld. I am guessing this is why no one welds across HT gussets as it creates a weakness across the frame.
I seriously love you
Loving this series. Looking forward to the opportunity to buy one of these babies 🔥
100 runs in a day is a hell of a day!
I find it so interesting that you and the team at RAAW came up with a design that looks very similar from afar. I’m sure there are differences in the details, but have you ever picked their brains at the races to see if they’re having similar challenges (shock bolts as an example)?
At any rate, keep up the great work and I’m excited for next season!
You may want to try joining the 2 links with some sort of hard rubber or a flexible material? Would allow them to flex (and tunable by width) but may be just enough ridgidness for the bolt not to break.
500 runs! You'll be riding it plenty hard enough 😂
What about a 'keyed' rocker link bolt? Kinda like the session. Keeps those links in line. Plus Linkage hardware prob stays tight better...?
Also just curious are you using a Oneup axle? They're solid 7075, total game changer for me, especially on the yeti, has enough frame flex and tire rub LOL
Cheers dude. Awesome work!
Coming from a FSAE background many teams run custom shock eyes. maybe thats something to consider regarding the shockbold problem. you could also use spherical bearings on the shock to minimize bending loads on the damper-rod. would definitely result in a more sensitive shock.
edit: on the new fox-shocks that could be more difficult with the adjuster but its definitely not a huge issue
There is not enough space to fit spherical bearing, but there is pretty smart looking alternative called fixshock that does the same thing.
@@jakubgabris6901 if you manufacture the shock-eye yourself you can easily make it a16mm bore instead of 15mm and fit a standard spherical bearing. (if you need a bigger shock-bolt youd have to use a bigger diameter obviously) that was my whole point 😅
@@jakubgabris6901 i cant find anything googling "fixshock" do you have a link to it or something?
Chumba was known to leave their gussets open like that. Allows the tubes to flex a bit.
Take it to Rampage. Good durability test.
Looking at my Nicolai frames they certainly have those gussets welded all the way around.
Interesting - see my comments above but maybe this is more for steel frames with thin tubes than Aluminium frames with thicker tubes.
@@martinshortt7750 could be, I think if anyone asked Nicolai guys why they are doing it the way they do they would answer it no problem.
On a side note, what's the name of the new shuttle park you're working on 🤗
When you go fishing, do you use a Neko rig?
I think 1000 runs is a pretty good test
Have you ever reached out to Devinci for advice, testing or even material?
Sic
If you've still got problems with cracking - why not make the frame from steel instead of aluminium?
I'd say 500 runs a year. But I ebike a lot lol!
200-300 at Sunpeaks is thee average id say for. People who are committed
When can I buy a frame?
i just hope big bike companies do at least as much testing there bikes before selling them .
Big companies have multiple ambassadors/athletes they can get a new bike under, and they have test rigs that can subject the bike to thousands of cycles of testing in a relatively compressed timeframe because they can run 24/7.
The Fox Dialed series showed one of their development facilities and they have a unit setup that simulates a fork running down a world cup DH course at race pace, and they just let it go for thousands of repetitions.
Suggestion on the rear shock just press a tube thing on the shock. Remember like on the iintense m1 look at rear shock, probably run a lighter bolt
at least 666 decent descents for a dh bike.....
Have you consider running ohlins ?