Interesting sorting out of some issues. Given the plated wheels on the model, this would indicate the model is from the era when Rovex Scale Models at Margate ceased using the Triang name and started using the Hornby name only. Although Rovex was still in the company title for many years. So not from the Triang production era but a later production. The only ones I own and have seen reference to with plated wheels are from the early eighties Rocket boxed train pack with three coaches. Initially the Rocket was available with a smoke unit or a less expensive version without a smoke unit. My sixties production Triang Rocket had the resistor instead of a smoke unit. Non plated wheels. The idea behind the resistor was that almost all Triang and later Hornby controllers were cheap resistance mat controllers designed for the standard current draw ranges of their products. At the lowest setting this was not enough resistance to drop the voltage enough for the low current draw of the X500 motor. So extra resistance added in the model. As per Ohms law. Almost all Triang controllers were resistance based except the very good Australian Triang P5T transistorised controller from the mid sixties. If the model is being run with a good controller capable of delivering low voltages then the chimney resistor is not needed. That is if you can resist running at the higher top speeds that removing the resistor gives. The Magnadhesion feature these models originally had did improve the electrical pick up of the models when running on the original Triang steel track. So not just an adhesion feature but effectively giving the model more weight. Nickel Silver track has lots of advantages but not the Magnadhesion bonus.
Hello Bill, good to see you working on this. The resister is 43 ohm and I use a .5 watt metal film one of good quality. I do always use the resister, it doesn't matter so much if you are using newer controllers but if you run a vintage setup I recommend refitting it. By the way I always fix the rear bearing to the magnet with a bit of non hardening glue too really helps with smoother running. Best regards to you
I never tire of these repair videos Bill. I’m storing up knowledge and techniques for when I can get all my locos back into operation on a new layout… thanks and keep them coming! Rob
It will be the model Triang issued with the smoke generator in the chimney. No doubt that's why the chimney is getting hot. Ah I see its a resistor :-) The X500 motors in the Stephensons Rocket were originally developed for Minic/Scaletrix cars.
Bill, Lovely little model. I would have replaced the resistors with the correct ones. They will drop the voltage to the motor and limit the current. This will limit the speed. That tiny motor might not last long without them!
Great job Bill. I've got an early version but I was lucky my Mother's sister worked for Triang in Margate so I did get a few Triang models as a sprog. Unfortunately my Rocket suffers from mazak rot which has dogged a lot of Triang locos over the years.
On your first trial there was visible wheelspin from the outset and throughout the run. That would be a likely contibutor to any uneven movement. I was wondering, as I watched, if that could be the original reason for the resistor in the chimney... but the magnet adjustment certainly seems to have done the trick. Nice work!
Hi Bill, I would always replace the resistor which will limit overcurrent to what is a very delicate motor. The resistor is a sacrificial component which has the benefit of limiting current to the motor winding. Clearly its Rocket by name and rocket by nature so limiting speed is not a bad thing perhaps so long as the motor torque is enough to pull the Triang tender and carriages..
With track that does not have iron in it, the model struggles due lack of contact with track, so I am planning to radio control with the r/c gear in a coach.
Hi Bill. Take a look at the channel called 'That Model Railway Guy'. On there, is a video about a year old in which he reviews the latest Rocket from Hornby. There is no wheel slip or any running problems while she pulls all three carriages with ease. And what a beautiful presentation package it comes in. Well worth a look matey! Paul.
It looks like it would give a HST a run for it's money. But seriously : the resistor would be a 'Dropping resistor' and would 'drop' the voltage going to the motor by means of dissipating heat (hence the hot chimney) the smoke unit would also do this job so when they deleted the unit, they had to put the resistor in it's place (and slow the motor down) resistors sometimes fail and in the process change their value so by dissipating too much heat (burning out) ! You can find out the value of the resistor by use of the resistor colour code and replace it which should then be good for the next 50 years !
It very well could be a case of the motor getting too gunked up and pulling too much current to run, which in turn puts more power across the resistor which those may be no more than a 1/4 watt rated resistor in which case yeah they burn out.
Keep wondering if the 1:1 version also had no counterbalances in the spokes.. + If any model loco needs a crew it's this one !! I think for a non-skewed motor and having no fly wheel she runs quite nice.. Shallower flanges would help the visual..
Back in the day when Tri-ang first introduced the Rocket, I purchased one with three carriages. Using the old reostat controller the x500 motor was only 3 pole and very jerky at slow speed. I replaced it with a 5 pole motor and it ran beautifully, but I can’t remember where I purchased it from.
Just a thought on the 'lightness' of the model, does it have the old magnahesion? I ask because of the bright metal 'horseshoe that sits between the wheels when viewed from underneath, seems to be a bright steel rather than mazak, and would be in the right position to effect the magnahesion attraction.
I have one of these, sadly it lives in its box with the coaches, as it does not run very well if it runs at all! Will done for getting this one working again!
Found with my one it hates modern nickel track, especially with the carriages attached. Model is so small and light it suffers from wheels slip. Only runs well on the older iron track as the motor magnet also acts to grip the track and the newer track doesn't have the same magnetic qualities.
Yes that's an issue. Too light and no traction. If I had one I'd look to put pickups in the tender and maybe a coach. Adding some plasti dip to the drive wheels would maybe then help with traction.
108 Ohms according to a Model Rail Forum article - hornby-triang-rocket.23780 Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 12, 2012 I measured the resistance of the Rocket's resistor that I have with a Multimeter. Just by itself (unsoldered from the loco), the resistor produces a reading averaging 108 Ohms, measuring from one side of the resistor to the other using a digital multimeter (that is around 1 year old). Does this sound right? I also noted that the reading kept changing between around 110 and 106 Ohms. I am not too sure how resistors should be measured, but I was surprised as the variation.
Well done a tricky little model . I’ve got the newest Hornby one which is a completely new model . I’m frightened to touch it ! God knows how it works ! The new one is lighter still ,and actually more to scale , it’s s bit smaller . Watch out which version you get if in the market for one .
I suspect that the resistor was used to give a more realistic scale running speed by dropping the voltage to the motor. Todays controllers would work fine but 'back in the day' they were a bit rough and ready and their lower voltage settings would not be as stable as todays devices.
i have 2 broken ones that could be made into 1 just to small for me to repair these days one of the motors need a rewind if you want to make 2 plus 1 has play on main axle - the other has play on the rear axle was why i said make 1 out of 2 - plue i have 2 more now running ok
Nearly missed this video.......you could fit a larger wattage resistor of the same resistive value, mounting it in the chimney probably wouldn't work and because of the size of the loco, trying to find space might not be possible......Bill, is it possible to get the camera in closer. The small detail is hard to see when you explain what's going on.....you could add a few lead shot down the chimney to add weight, now that the resistor is not there. Also adding some extra lead in spaces, if any exist under the body might help.
Yes I'm thinking of a 2W 120 ohm. Not sure really I will experiment. Chimney is the only place for it really. At least if it blows there it's not going to do much harm. If it was housed under the loco body it could melt it! Adding weight to the chimney would cause the loco to be very front heavy. I really need the tender to be able to see about sorting that out. It might be possible to ensure the tender is weighting down the loco while also adding pickup. Multiple camera angles really complicates making these videos especially as I just use my phone. But we'll see.
@@oobill the only thought with larger resistors is having a good airflow around them regardless of whether they are quarter watt or 5watt. Airflow helps stop overheating. What is the chimney made from? If its metal you could sleeve the resistor in a metal plug that snuggly fits the chimney pipe helping to conduct heat away especially as and when the train is moving. Just a thought.
if i could ask a general question bill please (oo gauge)? with all your repairs what do you reckon the best locos are in various categories and price ranges please?. i am a budget man, i started off with my child related stuff, trix and tri-ang but got frustrated with points, track, motors, poor running until by accident hit upon lima, great value for money and not too difficult to get running nicely. i also have a mainline loco that i like but really it is a fiddle to keep from jumping truck wheels, the class 45 i think it is. i have not tried airfix but think they are probably like mainline and thus so far avoided.
Vendredi 05 mai 2023 Hello, je suis français and i don't speak english..... very sorry C'est dommage car cc j'aurais voulu savoir se tu as fais pour ameliorer la rocket I very very like this machine Ma 1rer m a ete offerts pour mon noel de mes 7 ans en1964 j'ai eu une des premières sorties, elle roule toujours sans problèmes ( je ne comprend pas ) Depuis j en ai plusieurs, mais sur certaines jai des soucis de contact , donc it run very bad Je ne sais pas quoi faire , et je ne comprends pas pourquoi ca bug ..... et toutes celles que jai achetés, lellesont été vendu car elles roulaient tres mal voir pas du tout I wach it..... huile etc.....rien ...pas d'amélioration Si tu as.le courage de me repondre , j'en serais ravi, sinon pas grave, vu les dates je comprends que la page soit tournée Dommage que je ne comprenne pas les commentaires des autres pationnes 😢 j'aurais appris sûrement drs choses Bonnes continuation et tres bien ta vidéo
Interesting sorting out of some issues.
Given the plated wheels on the model, this would indicate the model is from the era when Rovex Scale Models at Margate ceased using the Triang name and started using the Hornby name only. Although Rovex was still in the company title for many years. So not from the Triang production era but a later production. The only ones I own and have seen reference to with plated wheels are from the early eighties Rocket boxed train pack with three coaches.
Initially the Rocket was available with a smoke unit or a less expensive version without a smoke unit.
My sixties production Triang Rocket had the resistor instead of a smoke unit. Non plated wheels.
The idea behind the resistor was that almost all Triang and later Hornby controllers were cheap resistance mat controllers designed for the standard current draw ranges of their products. At the lowest setting this was not enough resistance to drop the voltage enough for the low current draw of the X500 motor. So extra resistance added in the model. As per Ohms law.
Almost all Triang controllers were resistance based except the very good Australian Triang P5T transistorised controller from the mid sixties.
If the model is being run with a good controller capable of delivering low voltages then the chimney resistor is not needed. That is if you can resist running at the higher top speeds that removing the resistor gives.
The Magnadhesion feature these models originally had did improve the electrical pick up of the models when running on the original Triang steel track. So not just an adhesion feature but effectively giving the model more weight. Nickel Silver track has lots of advantages but not the Magnadhesion bonus.
Hello Bill, good to see you working on this. The resister is 43 ohm and I use a .5 watt metal film one of good quality. I do always use the resister, it doesn't matter so much if you are using newer controllers but if you run a vintage setup I recommend refitting it. By the way I always fix the rear bearing to the magnet with a bit of non hardening glue too really helps with smoother running. Best regards to you
I never tire of these repair videos Bill. I’m storing up knowledge and techniques for when I can get all my locos back into operation on a new layout… thanks and keep them coming!
Rob
It will be the model Triang issued with the smoke generator in the chimney. No doubt that's why the chimney is getting hot. Ah I see its a resistor :-) The X500 motors in the Stephensons Rocket were originally developed for Minic/Scaletrix cars.
Well done I had this model and it was not working thanks to this video I have managed to get it running ..... well chuffed as they say many thanks
Bill,
Lovely little model. I would have replaced the resistors with the correct ones. They will drop the voltage to the motor and limit the current. This will limit the speed. That tiny motor might not last long without them!
Great job Bill. I've got an early version but I was lucky my Mother's sister worked for Triang in Margate so I did get a few Triang models as a sprog. Unfortunately my Rocket suffers from mazak rot which has dogged a lot of Triang locos over the years.
On your first trial there was visible wheelspin from the outset and throughout the run. That would be a likely contibutor to any uneven movement. I was wondering, as I watched, if that could be the original reason for the resistor in the chimney... but the magnet adjustment certainly seems to have done the trick. Nice work!
Hi Bill,
I would always replace the resistor which will limit overcurrent to what is a very delicate motor. The resistor is a sacrificial component which has the benefit of limiting current to the motor winding.
Clearly its Rocket by name and rocket by nature so limiting speed is not a bad thing perhaps so long as the motor torque is enough to pull the Triang tender and carriages..
With track that does not have iron in it, the model struggles due lack of contact with track, so I am planning to radio control with the r/c gear in a coach.
Hi Bill.
Take a look at the channel called 'That Model Railway Guy'. On there, is a video about a year old in which he reviews the latest Rocket from Hornby. There is no wheel slip or any running problems while she pulls all three carriages with ease. And what a beautiful presentation package it comes in. Well worth a look matey!
Paul.
Love the 08 doing it's job 👌 👍
Only nine seconds in and I already love this vid just because of this guys accent
It looks like it would give a HST a run for it's money.
But seriously : the resistor would be a 'Dropping resistor' and would 'drop' the voltage going to the motor by means of dissipating heat (hence the hot chimney) the smoke unit would also do this job so when they deleted the unit, they had to put the resistor in it's place (and slow the motor down) resistors sometimes fail and in the process change their value so by dissipating too much heat (burning out) !
You can find out the value of the resistor by use of the resistor colour code and replace it which should then be good for the next 50 years !
The colours would have disappeared due to the heat !
It very well could be a case of the motor getting too gunked up and pulling too much current to run, which in turn puts more power across the resistor which those may be no more than a 1/4 watt rated resistor in which case yeah they burn out.
@@samspade5962 Yup. It's just a blackened lump.
There are specialised bearing lubes - bit thicker to alleviate some of the "slop" of worn bearings.
Thanks for the video.
Keep wondering if the 1:1 version also had no counterbalances in the spokes.. + If any model loco needs a crew it's this one !!
I think for a non-skewed motor and having no fly wheel she runs quite nice.. Shallower flanges would help the visual..
Back in the day when Tri-ang first introduced the Rocket, I purchased one with three carriages. Using the old reostat controller the x500 motor was only 3 pole and very jerky at slow speed. I replaced it with a 5 pole motor and it ran beautifully, but I can’t remember where I purchased it from.
hi Bill, great video good to see the 08 doing its job,the triang rocket is a brute to mend, will stick with my Davy Crockett wild west loco,
Too bad it's missing the tender. So happy to see when you've uploaded.
Just a thought on the 'lightness' of the model, does it have the old magnahesion? I ask because of the bright metal 'horseshoe that sits between the wheels when viewed from underneath, seems to be a bright steel rather than mazak, and would be in the right position to effect the magnahesion attraction.
Im still on the lookout for a x500 motor for mine since mine has destroyed itself
I have one of these, sadly it lives in its box with the coaches, as it does not run very well if it runs at all! Will done for getting this one working again!
Found with my one it hates modern nickel track, especially with the carriages attached. Model is so small and light it suffers from wheels slip. Only runs well on the older iron track as the motor magnet also acts to grip the track and the newer track doesn't have the same magnetic qualities.
Yes that's an issue. Too light and no traction. If I had one I'd look to put pickups in the tender and maybe a coach. Adding some plasti dip to the drive wheels would maybe then help with traction.
108 Ohms according to a Model Rail Forum article - hornby-triang-rocket.23780
Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 12, 2012
I measured the resistance of the Rocket's resistor that I have with a Multimeter.
Just by itself (unsoldered from the loco), the resistor produces a reading averaging 108 Ohms, measuring from one side of the resistor to the other using a digital multimeter (that is around 1 year old).
Does this sound right?
I also noted that the reading kept changing between around 110 and 106 Ohms. I am not too sure how resistors should be measured, but I was surprised as the variation.
Well done a tricky little model . I’ve got the newest Hornby one which is a completely new model . I’m frightened to touch it ! God knows how it works ! The new one is lighter still ,and actually more to scale , it’s s bit smaller . Watch out which version you get if in the market for one .
I suspect that the resistor was used to give a more realistic scale running speed by dropping the voltage to the motor. Todays controllers would work fine but 'back in the day' they were a bit rough and ready and their lower voltage settings would not be as stable as todays devices.
i have 2 broken ones that could be made into 1 just to small for me to repair these days one of the motors need a rewind if you want to make 2 plus 1 has play on main axle - the other has play on the rear axle was why i said make 1 out of 2 - plue i have 2 more now running ok
Just the info I needed but still cant get mine running. What is the aerosol you use?
@00bill Hello Bill, I hope you can give me some advice on servicing an Airfix 67xx locomotive.
Great video Bill I have the new Hornby Rocket pack
Nearly missed this video.......you could fit a larger wattage resistor of the same resistive value, mounting it in the chimney probably wouldn't work and because of the size of the loco, trying to find space might not be possible......Bill, is it possible to get the camera in closer. The small detail is hard to see when you explain what's going on.....you could add a few lead shot down the chimney to add weight, now that the resistor is not there. Also adding some extra lead in spaces, if any exist under the body might help.
Yes I'm thinking of a 2W 120 ohm. Not sure really I will experiment. Chimney is the only place for it really. At least if it blows there it's not going to do much harm. If it was housed under the loco body it could melt it! Adding weight to the chimney would cause the loco to be very front heavy. I really need the tender to be able to see about sorting that out. It might be possible to ensure the tender is weighting down the loco while also adding pickup. Multiple camera angles really complicates making these videos especially as I just use my phone. But we'll see.
@@oobill the only thought with larger resistors is having a good airflow around them regardless of whether they are quarter watt or 5watt. Airflow helps stop overheating. What is the chimney made from? If its metal you could sleeve the resistor in a metal plug that snuggly fits the chimney pipe helping to conduct heat away especially as and when the train is moving. Just a thought.
if i could ask a general question bill please (oo gauge)? with all your repairs what do you reckon the best locos are in various categories and price ranges please?. i am a budget man, i started off with my child related stuff, trix and tri-ang but got frustrated with points, track, motors, poor running until by accident hit upon lima, great value for money and not too difficult to get running nicely. i also have a mainline loco that i like but really it is a fiddle to keep from jumping truck wheels, the class 45 i think it is. i have not tried airfix but think they are probably like mainline and thus so far avoided.
Bill how did you discharge the magnetism from the magnet?
Just remove it from the motor. These magnets lose power almost immediately after the magnetic circuit is broken.
@@oobill thanks Bill
Smoke generator on these, used to have one!
Only on some of the models. Lots sold without the smoke unit.
Should have been a surgeon Bill. Fitting electric pacemakers? All the best. Mick
how do you weaken the motor?
Certainly running at a good speed
Hi Bill, another great video, just one question, how did you manage to demagnetise the magnet?
Just remove it from the motor. These magnets lose power almost immediately after the magnetic circuit is broken.
Is there a lot of problams with those
As i was typing u were answering
Are* problems* those?*
nice vid bill thanks lee
There’s one on eBay at the moment £190
and thats where i feel it should stay didnt like the rocket at all
Goes like a . . . .'rocket'.
Vendredi 05 mai 2023
Hello, je suis français and i don't speak english..... very sorry
C'est dommage car cc j'aurais voulu savoir se tu as fais pour ameliorer la rocket
I very very like this machine
Ma 1rer m a ete offerts pour mon noel de mes 7 ans en1964 j'ai eu une des premières sorties, elle roule toujours sans problèmes ( je ne comprend pas )
Depuis j en ai plusieurs, mais sur certaines jai des soucis de contact , donc it
run very bad
Je ne sais pas quoi faire , et je ne comprends pas pourquoi ca bug ..... et toutes celles que jai achetés, lellesont été vendu car elles roulaient tres mal voir pas du tout
I wach it..... huile etc.....rien ...pas d'amélioration
Si tu as.le courage de me repondre , j'en serais ravi, sinon pas grave, vu les dates je comprends que la page soit tournée
Dommage que je ne comprenne pas les commentaires des autres pationnes 😢 j'aurais appris sûrement drs choses
Bonnes continuation et tres bien ta vidéo
They always ran fast never where good at low speed running.