My first birthday i celebrated as an exJW ( i know it's birthday and not christmas but still ) with my Methodist wife, as an adult, they threw a surprise birthday party with theme of 1st birthday. They had 1st birthday cards, and decorated with kids decorations and had tinkerbell plates and themed stuff, and it was glorious and wonderful and I loved every minute of it.
@@temporarilyimmortal795 it rly was and my in-laws were awesome for throwing it for me and I have the most amazing wife for organizing it all, even going so far as to call my boss and have her swap my shift so I'd have that night off for the surprise party.
aw, poor kids :(. my headcanon is that Sophia leaves at 18 and goes to college and helps Caleb get out too bc those kids deserve to live a more fulfilling life than this
@bettyvan1213 I don’t think the op or anyone else who replied here is unaware of that. No one said they imagine Sophia or Caleb moving on to live a normal, unaffected life, just a more fulfilling one. Owen himself is a living example of what they are imagining for both of them, as someone who left the religion at around 18 and is now living a better life, free of the cult into which he was born and raised.
I have an aunt that was supposed to a be a born again Christian and every time I would call her to vent, her solution to everything was Jesus. I literally had to tell her once that I was just calling because I needed someone to listen and she told me that if I was unwilling to be born again then she had no solutions. I really did not speak to her that much for a few years until her husband, my uncle, died from medical complications due to dementia. She is now damn near an atheist. So when my father, her brother, died a year and a half ago she was able to approach it with logic and common. We both got through my father's passing and we are speaking again.
@@Itsaplatypuse wasn't the whole problem religion to begin with? Being a born-again Christian never brings anything good and I have a hard time believing that the aunt and OP ever reconciled. Like good for the aunt for finally snapping out of her phase and all, but I think it's just too little too late.
Sophia totally preyed on Zoe at her grandmother's death. It's all she knew to do of course. But now, Zoe's entire thing is based around her mourning. And now she's feeling all kinds of guilt, and it's utterly obvious. And now, she's working on her own MOM! Ugh.
That episode you played really pissed me off. It’s child abuse: “don’t have fun. Don’t be a kid. Be a loner.” No kid deserves to live like that! For what?! Or else God won’t like you anymore??? Is he that vengeful that he wants you to spend your life in the shadows OR ELSE? I spent 25 years in that organization and now after 15 years of being out, I am even more disgusted by the way things are.
The first time we celebrated christmas after having kids ( im an exJW ), wife and I sat down and she said it was time to stuff stockings, and I sat there waiting for stuff to put in her stocking and my wife was like "you didnt go out and get stuff to put in my stocking?" I was like "i didnt know i was supposed to?" and she was like "did you think santa claus was going to?" I just was like "i didnt even know we stuffed them until now." it never dawned on her that I didnt know stockings got stuff with anything to begin with. I had no idea how any of it worked. told the story to my sister and her husband and he started laughing and she turned red because literally the same thing happened with them. she didnt know stuff went in the stockings and hadnt gone out to get anything to put in his stocking, either.
There actually pre-made stockings that you can buy that have stuff inside them, so you can go that route if you don't want the hassle. Also the concept of Santa is a bit confusing for those that don't know it works. "Santa" is an adult and/or other child. What happens is after the kids are put to bed, you spend the night wrapping the presents that are from "Santa", and filling the stockings, and leaving evidence of your presence (like eating the cookies and carrots and drinking the milk, maybe even leaving a thank you). In my family we went a bit further. Of course we got presents from "Santa" and family and what not. But I also got presents from the Nutcracker Prince, and The Sugar Plum Fairy, and Aslan (who is a character in the Narnia book series, and is seen by some Christians as being an allegory? for Jesus), and Jesus, and the Three Wise Men, and such like that. It was a fun time. One of the The Nutcracker Prince gifts I got was especially memorable, because it was a VHS tape of the Nutcracker which was by the Pacific Northwest Ballet troupe (doesn't exist anymore; disbanded) the very same year that my school went to see the play live by the same troupe. It was great because my Mom and Brother (older) had been humming the Sugar Plum Fairy song at me days before, and it drove me nuts because I recognized the tune, but couldn't place why it was so familiar. It wasn't until I opened the gift that I realized why they had been doing so. I felt stupid, but also I laughed, because "you got me" prank was funny. It became a running joke that if you were humming the Sugar Plum Fairy song, you were being sneaky and secretive and a surprise was coming. Also it is just fun to hum sometimes because it's a catchy tune.
It honestly varies from family to family, region to region, faith to faith. Everyone has their own traditions and rule sets. I know that some folks will open 1 present Christmas Eve and the rest on Christmas Day. @@naysneedle5707
Zoe: "I wanna do the RIGHT thing." How infuriating. Making it akin to not stealing another kids lunch, or not committing murder. Have fun playing Jenga, Zoe. Have fun with the prospect of a lifetime of being lonely, weird, and outcast. I wonder what she did when her family celebrated Christmas that year? Did she lock herself up in her room? Did she think God aka "Jehovah" would hate her all of a sudden if she spent that time of joy and love with her family? Poor kid.
I would love to an episode where Zoe’s parents confront her and tell her that they aren’t Jehovah’s witnesses because her parents know that it’s all a cult. So they tell Zoe to let Sofia and Caleb down gently and that the kids have a falling out. But I know that will never happen. Being creative or thinking outside the box is not allowed.
I would love that episode. I would be so worried about my children. My daugther bought a rosary and just like that wanted to be catholic. It was a few weeks thing. Kids are easy to brainwash.
Holy shit that bit where you mentioned how JWs view outsiders was a major lightbulb moment for me. I'm an Ex JW myself, and I'm also black and queer. I have a bad habit of assuming people will be racist or transphobic or homophobic toward me, and I can get way over defensive if I feel like someone looks at me weird or says something that comes out wrong. It's almost definitely because of the whole JW rhetoric that others will judge or persecute you. It's crazy that Im still finding mindsets and rhetorics that I need to grow past.
My husband does the same thing without realizing it. I keep having to remind him that no one's out to get him. The paranoia is so ingrained in him that even though he's been out almost 20 years, I don't think it will ever go away.
I was homeschooled until seventh grade. It took me two whole years to realize most people won't hate me just for liking other women. I still get anxiety whenever I mention it, but at least it's not as bad as it was.
Yeah but it also exists because people don't know how to leave others the fuck alone. Why would a person want to spend their precious time with judgemental,mentally and physically abusive,hypocritical,condescending,incompetent BULLIES. The world is the way it is because we made it that way. :/
Your experience with watching live TV reminds me of another youtuber who grew up in a different religion/cult. She was homeschooled and said it was so isolating that she would pretend that the kids in the homeschool education videos were her friends and she would make up backstories for them. I can't even imagine how hard it must've been being so isolated from others.
I never grew up in a cult, however, as a child who grew up with abuse from my parents. I became stunted, as a 21 year old, as a trauma response, I still catch myself asking for things, like “can I do this” or “can I do that” or “will you let me…” like a child would, I still feel like I need to ask for permission because in my mind I still feel like a kid, and im afraid to do things of my own free will, so seeing Michael Jackson do the same, “can I open this?” Which was a clear childhood trauma response, made me feel so seen. I thought I was so weird, but realising it was a trauma response made me break down my responses and help me help myself. ❤ thank you Owen. I adore your videos, i look up to you a lot, and I feel an affinity with you despite me not growing up in a cult or having religious trauma myself, I feel in a way connected to you, I too, struggled and I still struggle with a heroin addiction which has made my life incredibly difficult and has caused me even more trauma, but I’m also a victim of childhood abuse so watching your videos comfort me greatly. I feel less alone and less unusual when I know that someone like you exists, and how you’re pulling through your hardships every day and making life better for yourself. I love you and I’m proud of you ❤
I've never been abused, but my mom was controlling. In my 30s, I still feel weird when I do something without telling her, including very innocent things (for example, going shopping, even though I'm careful when I spend money). I can feel your discomfort when reading your comment, even though I'm far away to have your trauma. I wish you the best!
I still think it's completely reasonable to say that parts of Christmas tradition were borrowed from Yule, because some elements are identical and Yule is older.
@@pigeoncoop_zs2759 Right, me too. My husband and I are both Pagan and absolutely everything has Pagan symbolism - from mistletoe with white berries representing the issue of The God and the red holly berries representing the blood of The Goddess - to wreaths, trees etc. The church even placed the date around winter solstice, celebration of Yule - or the Natalis Sol Invicti - birth of the invincible Sun, when The God reappears and the cycle begins once again. The church changed that to mean the birth of the SON. Bottom line is that the church was having a hard time stamping out Pagans (and we're still here lol) so they set many of their "holy days" to coincide with Pagan festivals, hoping to make their religion more palatable to our heathen ancestors. I like this guy, I actually was involved with the witnesses for a few years. The best part of the experience was leaving. Absolutely awful cult. And this guy is definitely very good at telling it like it is. I understand his dislike of ANYTHING the witnesses taught - but Pagan origins of things are simply history. My husband is Swedish (so his preference is the Norse pantheon) and my people were Native American and Irish, so Celts and indigenous people were my forefathers. We come from a long line of proud Pagans. So while I do overall like this fellow and this channel I do wish he would stop stating with such conviction something that simply is not true. Just because the witnesses believe it does not automatically make it untrue. Really so far as I know the only holiday of ours they didn't hijack is Samhain. Blessings to all )O(
I'm the quirky person I am today because of me leaving this brutal religion behind me. I'm sooooo grateful for your videos Owen. Very very grateful. I don't feel alone because of people like you.
You are drastically wrong on the origin of Christmas. Saturnalia is not the only festivity, in North Europe there was Yule, and so on. Every culture had a festivity around the period of the solstice. The church tired to suppress every festivity, until they decided to accept and give a christian connotation. Other examples are the various carnival (when nature is waking up), or Pentecost, or May 8th, or Assumption on August 15h (Feria of Augustus), etcetera. On January 6th is the Epiphany, which is still celebrated in a lot of places.
As a Norwegian, thank you! We still call it by the Old Norse name here too. Most of what people think of as xmas decorations is literally thanks to the nordic Jul. Like, snow, pine/mistletoe/holly decorations, reindeer etc.
Yeah, Christmas traditions are definitely just a cover-up layer put over older pagan traditions, that were indeed connected to the cycles of the year and important days like winter solstice. There's not even a debate about that, it's just a widely accepted fact. I think that he sometimes tries bit too hard to prove JW being wrong, resulting in him going for various sketchy interpretations as long as they are against what JW claim.
when i was about 12 i had a best friend that was JW, i didn't know anything about it yet but it is what got me into this channel, now it all makes sense, how we never got to hang out after school, how she was always put in the hallway during any celebrations, i don't have any contact with her anymore sadly, but i hope she's doing ok now :/
I'm a former Baptist. I have a fascination with people shedding their repressive religions. I watch so many fundie recovery channels, and really appreciate yours. I'm not sure what my point is other than to say my heart really connects to anyone struggling to understand the religion that raised them Thanks for your videos
The only time I’ve ever heard that a child wanted to be all alone….and never see another person again, was in the documentary “Shoah” when the Jewish survivor of Chelmo shared how he dreamed as a child to only want three loaves of bread and to never see another person again….so sad💔
I would say many things rn,but ill just say this: This sofia and caleb episode breaks my heart and brings me some sourly memories from when i was in my teen,in highschool and now that im on college at 18 and being pimo,ive decided that if ive ever get to be an mother someday,ill never make them feel the guilt i have. Especially when being bisexual and knowing that ur parents dont acept u (simply because god says is wrong) and being one of the main reasons im struggling rn to not feel so much guilt abt my own identity. This cult is taking everything from innocent ppl,we need to send awarness to others abt the dangers of this cult. Edit:And yes im gonna leave the cult when i can be financially idependent,rn i have some financial struggles
Okay, get off your guilt trip. God does not say it's wrong. The Old Testament does not and never did apply to us (gentiles). It was rules for only Jewish people. And it is mostly about Israelite life, sort of Jewish history. Jewish law was for the Jews like Greek law was for the Greeks and Roman law was for Romans. Quit feeling guilty for being yourself.
@@phillipstephens4522 well,imagine being bombarded with the cultist message that u cant be bi or any sexuality bc god hates that "lifestyle" since childhood and trying to overcome it. Its not that simple
@@SofieXDD What I'm trying to tell you there is no reason to feel any guilt whatsoever. The best way is to realize that people are notorious for weaponizing the scriptures against people they just don't like. Show me one scripture where God or Christ said anything about gay, bisexuality, or whatever. You can't because it's just NOT in the Bible. And they are the only ones you should be listening too. When you strip the Bible to its bare essence we have ONE law to live by. It is in Galatians, I forget the exact verse, but it says in effect, This is the whole of the law -- love one another. Please note it says "the whole of the law" -- not one of more laws. Not several laws but one law. That is it! So try to wipe away the guilt and revel in the fact that you are uniquely you no matter what anyone else says. You have a right to live your own life in your own way and nobody else has the right to say otherwise!
Is it? Genuinely asking as a disabled bullied former kid. I think it was more dangerous to be on the brink of game over from all the bullying all the time. I loved not being around the horrible people (kids and adults) in school. I loved just being alone to read. Five extra hours of Goosebumps or Animorphs XD I'm a lonely adult but I'm keeping out of the abled's way so who cares? I'm not on the brink anymore so it's less dangerous as far as I can see. I can't keep friends but I know that's my fault because I'm disabled and I expect nothing less. I'm being calmly (albeit confusedly) informative, not emotionally manipulative, before anyone yells at me. Am I doing something wrong in not understanding? I am open to being corrected.
@@Roadent1241 in a general sense, social isolation like what's shown in the video can have some pretty significant negative effects on kids well into adulthood. A good example is "Karens" aka adults who throw temper tantrums over minor inconveniences and demand everyone bend to their will. Often (though not always), children who behave like this will incur the social ire of their peers, and grow out of the behavior as an adaptation. In simple terms, they stop acting like little snots because nobody wants to be around them, and they want friends. Good behavior = friends. Now in the case of disability, things get tricky since many nondisabled kids aren't taught about disabilities or how to befriend someone who is visibly very different from them. And with disabilities, obviously they can't just...stop being disabled. So if the nondisabled children aren't corrected early in life and protocols aren't put in place to foster a safe environment for all, things just get worse and worse. I'm speaking in general terms here, of course, but hopefully you get the idea. That said, you aren't naturally just doomed to be alone because you're disabled. One of my best friends has a variety of chronic illnesses, another is autistic, and three have ADHD. They're some of my best friends, and their disabilities don't change that for me at all. I hope one day you find people who see the value you bring to the world, if that's what you would like. You are worthy and deserving if friendship, just like everyone else.
@@Roadent1241 well, one sign you're doing something wrong is how casually you express your internalized ableism. You also say you're lonely and "on the brink." It's okay to not be struggling in fact it is possible to thrive. Isolation is not okay. Saying this as a once disabled bullied human. I was bullied straight from primary school to my first job. I never isolated myself through, I don't struggle with loneliness, even though I fear I might be getting in the way or slowing down the rest they've embraced me and we've nurtured enough community for me to know they don't mind and it's an acceptable consequence they want to meet, I do get the usual bouts of low self esteem and depressive episodes but have never tolerated the notion of "barely not being on the brink." You matter more than this tolerable level of discomfort you've lived in. You can start making a change even if infinitesimally small. But always remember it is hard making that change and making things better for yourself. Things will always be harder for us disabled folk.
@@availanila I am well aware I have internalised ableism, which shouldn't be true because I am a disabled myself but I guess that's what happens when you're forced to live in the opposite world. No idea what to do about it especially since I hate myself. People keep telling me to make changes. I don't know what changes to make. I have no options in the middle of nowhere. You'd think with my creativity and 25 years to think with TV and internet for inspiration I'd've come up with something. But I've come up with nothing realistic. I can't take buses because they stopped going past my house. I'm not rich so I can't just take a taxi which would cost a lot just to come to the middle of nowhere. I can't walk anywhere because I'd be walking on the road and hearing people have said they wouldn't dare, why should I when I can't hear for crap? I can't drive because I'm a fricking dwarf and dad's twice my height so obviously can't see the problem of me trying to follow the rules and not being able to anything in front but the sky. Not that I have anywhere to go anyway or anyone to see. If they're not 5 hours away they're overseas.
@@Izzy-cp8yt Thanks, but I'm genuinely curious and sorry if I offend, how do you keep being friends with them? How do they not annoy you or how do you move past being annoyed? I'm trying to see this friendship problem from both mine and everybody else's perspective. Is driving them away something I'm doing? Do they just get bored waiting for me to decide I can actually hear and think like a normal person and know how humans work the same way they do?
With MJ, it just floors me every holiday season when Jackson 5 Christmas songs come on. The parents didn't care about anything but the $$$ their kids could make for them. No, you can't *celebrate* Christmas, but you're going to make this Christmas album because.... money. Makes me sick.
There are people who believe it will make a stronger person; if a child suffers to an extent, it also just justifies some really messed up behavior for jaded adults who were raised the same.
@@shawnkerner2923CPTSD is complicated. It can make people stronger in some regards, but it can infantalize, weaken EQ and make their world views small.
@@brittvaughn9447 That's not really relevant, if you're ruining the life of a child who cannot help themselves, or setting them up for intense ridicule later on. I firmly believe families who do this are abusing their children, even if not outright beating them. Same with indoctrination.
From the weirdest kid at my school, to the weirdest kid at your school; You're right. Only we can understand the intensity of the trauma of being raised a jehovah's witness.
Hey owen, i doubt you read this but i still wanna say this. Even though I'm not raised into a cult i still kinda understand you because i was considered weird as well, but for a different reason. My reason, i am autistic. My brain just works differently and thus people didn't understand me and i didn't understand them. Now over the years i learned to understand them better but it still stays difficult. So yeah i think i understand what you're going through. Keep up the good work you're doing and know you have people that support you.
My first birthday after I left was from a my coworkers at the coffee shop I worked on.. I bawled. It was just a cake, but that they thought of me and cared and could show it.. I felt extremely loved and a little scared. I didn't celebrate Christmas for nearly a decade.. I wasn't against it but didn't have the connection or anyone to celebrate with. Now it's one of my favorite times of the year and I still get pretty emotional about it.
Donald Glover is also in Community, and his character in the show (Troy) is depicted as growing up JW. There's some scenes in the show where they make fun of it. In one of the episodes, Troy has a great line regarding JWs: "We don't celebrate birthdays or Christmas, and we can't drink, but it helps."
There’s also the cake that Annie buys him for his birthday: Hello during a random dessert, the month and day of which coincide numerically with your expulsion from the uterus
I wasn't a jehova's wintness but because of the cult I was raised in I was always an outsider in the same types of fashion, which made me weird to others. As a younger adult, after I had left, I would always tell the same "I grew up in a cult" to help explain a lot of things. That was a weird sort of comfort, to hear someone else has also simply laid it out like that as well.
Yep. Left without the normal social skills and not knowing any normal media references means you've got to say something to people. It's so gross that people do this to their kids.
Yeah, I had the "Oh, your grandma died, do you want to join Jehovah so you can see her in paradise" from a random lady, I took my grandma's death really hard, and I had one of those random cry session at the time when she came by and asked what was going on, thought she was just gonna try to comfort me like a normal person, nope, let's just say it took me everything not to rip her apart, the only thing that came out of my mouth was a very hissy "fuck you" between bouts of crying and the dirtiest look I've ever given a person, could have handled it better, but it did get the point across that I was having none of her shit
Thank you for SUCH a heartfelt video. Anyone watching can see and feel the pain you are practically reliving. I think this is an extremely important topic, overlooked by most.
My Aunt is christian and we always go to her house during christmas. We're helping preparing meals and house-sitting while they're praying. When they got home, we have meals together and sing together, it's nice, warmfelt moment.
most of my family are muslim. after my mother joined the JWs, my grandmother, great-aunt and uncle started giving me gifts around christmastime despite not celebrating themselves. i always thought that was interesting, lol
LOL that's kinda what my mom would do but she'd also put in a magazine of some kind (hunting and trapping for my dad, Mad Magazines or coloring books-when I was little i got coloring books- or small hard covered books for me. One year she even put in some good quality pencils because I draw, and at the time my friends thought it was lazy but at the time it was a great gift because I appreciated the smooth lead while I drew comics. Nowadays you could still give me that and it would send me into a wave of nostalgia😂
My family always put fruits, nuts, small candies and small gifts... like chapstick, hot wheels, a necklace, watch, rings, a thing to decorate the tree .. things that you can generally fit in a stocking or a sock. Maybe a gift card or some sort of envelope with money (in Asian countries getting red envelopes have money in them during the new year IIRC). We always put the stuff in a certain layered manner too.
Mormons did a bunker exercise that traumatized me. Simply because I need to use the restroom and the ones in my bunker just stared at me they wouldn't help me at all with the following of the bunker rules... which was we couldn't leave our room or if we did we had to make sure not to get caught or we'd die... so I was like okay.... I need to use the restroom but they didn't help me make a makeshift portapotty or anything, no suggestions were even made even though I was begging to come up with a solution that would risk me leaving the bunker.... so I left the room risking getting caught.... and thought well if I just explained that I needed to potty that I would be just putting the exercise on time out.... but they insisted that I got caught, and that I was dead in the exercise which I felt was unfair. As such I fear going to the bathroom during work hours unless it's specifically one of my 15's or my lunchbreak. Also I think they didn't want to come up with a solution because I wasn't a Mormon, I was just a friend of someone who was, now that think about it.
As an exomo you not being helped in the pretend emergency situation they created because you weren't mormon is the most mormon thing ever. Sorry you went through that.
But I was Christian, so to me, though I was told that Mormonism was a cult, but I wasn't convinced. I was more of the mind at the time (I was in my 20's) that Mormons were just another part of the body of Christ, and there's a verse about how there was in-fighting in early days of Christianity about how they were saying that other groups weren't really Christian because they weren't doing things exactly the same as they were. Like The eye telling the hand that the hand isn't really part of the body because it's not an eye. That sort of thing. And although the event did traumatize me, and did put me off from attending that location for years, their actions lost a potential member. Because if I had stayed and continued, I might have become Mormon at some point, but we'll never know because they alienated me at a pivotal point. Christianity that I practiced also did alienating things that caused me to leave, without realizing what they were doing, and without me be able to communicate it to them. I think a lot of Mormons, JWs and Christians are well meaning, but they just get so wrapped up in their own little focal points that they become the very thing they claim they are fighting against. Like they become modern day Pharisees and Sadducees. Claiming to follow a living god and that the book is a living book, then treating it in a dead manner is just so silly to me now. @@amberinthemist7912
My experience growing up was so much like yours Owen. My mom took me out of school in the 6th grade and didn’t have me do any school work at all. I was trapped and isolated. I had one friend in the Kingdom Hall that I actually got along with. My mom was so jealous of her mom we were not aloud to hang out anymore. So until I turned 17 I had nobody at all then I got my first job and I got to experience what the real world is like. To this day it is incredibly difficult for me to socialize and make genuine connections. Growing up as a jehovah witness has impacted my life for the worse in so many different ways. No one I talk to has any idea what it was like and can’t understand so I thought I would share it here.
Caleb and Sophia are fictional but why do I care so much for them and their mental wellbeing? I guess because they represent, to me, the poor kids stuck in this cult, and I want them to be free to have a happy childhood.
When I was in 5th grade my grade took a field trip to the local high school to watch the band play a Christmas concert. I had no interest in watching 14 year olds play Jingle Bells, so I just... never got my permission slip signed. But I wasn't the only one left at the school. A boy from another class stayed with me, but he actually seemed sad to miss the concert. I wasn't sure why his parents never signed his permission slip, but now I think I know the reason. :( They didn't make us sit in the hall, though. My 2nd grade teacher recruited us to help her students.
Yep, that's Zoe. Same Zoe that Sophia shoved a fucking bible story book/whatever the hell that book was because she was emotionally vulnerable due to losing family (Zoe's gran died) and well, Cults target those who are emotionally vulnerable. So yes, this girl is a 'conversion in progress'
I feel you brother ❤ i hope you're finding time in your weeks to get some good social contact. Saying you were watching live news to feel a connection made me feel a lot. It kind of sounded like a good idea... i think i need to spend more time around people.
I'm imagining the future of this universe. I think Sophia leaves to become a scientist of some sort, but she's alone. The fact she never really learned social skills as a kid holds her back romantically, but she has hopes this relationship with her current partner will work out. Caleb is too far gone, and would remain with the Jehovah's Witnesses, shunning his apostate sister. He'd be attending the local kingdom hall, with his wife, Zoe. Recruiting her to the cult is Dr Sophia's biggest regret. She wasn't even invited to the wedding of Caleb and Zoe.
My personal head Cannon is that Sophia becomes an atheist and Caleb leaves the JWs and becomes a Methodist minister, still needing some of the structure in a relationship with god. They don't get along well because they never learned how to tolerate beliefs that are different from thiers.
In my opinion this is your best discussion so far. A person can leave the religion but for a person ‘ born into it ‘ it takes years and years to peel away the layers of indoctrination if indeed one is ever free from the guilty feelings of just trying to fit in with society and do the normal things that everyone else does. A JWs whole life is about pleasing Jehovah, fearing Jehovah, not disappointing Jehovah, serving Jehovah, thanking Jehovah, praising Jehovah, loving Jehovah, phew! I could go on but I think you get the idea. These things are taught from infancy and all the while one has to be no part of the world.
Like 30 years ago, my mom had a JW friend that she, as well as the friend group, adored. One day, they planned a surprise birthday party for him and he was SO excited. He was so happy that his friends did something nice for him. Unfortunately his parents found out and got really really upset (mind you, he was an ADULT.) But he just kinda snapped at them. She doesn't talk to this friend anymore (just drifted apart) but last she hears, he is no longer a JW and happily celebrates Christmas with his family
To be honest, JWs aren't even that good at making propaganda videos. Their animation is objectively good, but their dialogue and narrative feel forced and bland. They make the holidays seem fun and themselves seem pretty boring, even when they're trying to do the exact opposite.
@@GreenHotDogz They need beliefs that don't suck. Even if someone is a good writer, there's only so much you can do for a storyline that's centered around bad ideas. It's like putting lipstick on a pig.
I like how you can tell the bully girl is the bully because she has black hair and wears red. In school I had black hair and wore red but I wasn't a bully. I was the one who got bullied.
I relate so much. It hurts to remember my isolated childhood. Children have it the worst. They feel something is wrong but there is no where to go. You are stuck trying to make it work all the while feeling so lonely and isolated. I thought something was wrong with me. I raised my daughters free and clear. And imagine they turned into amazing good people. They didnt need all the ridiculousness of jws to be good descent people.
Actually we were told that we took it from Norse celebrations where the oak tree was used.... but to Christianize it we used evergreens to rep Jesus eternal life whereas the oak tree is deci'. Also it is said that in all reality Jesus was born closer to Easter/Spring due to when historically census was taken. But we celebrated it earlier to compete against pagan beliefs and get converts yada yada. -Source, me growing up Christian.
Same. I feel too shy to do a lot of normal things. like its not even guilt anymore just pure embarrasment over the fact that i've never done this before and im too socially anxious to do it
I totally agree, i dont believe Michael actually did anything to kids, there has been zero proof ive found other than what the parents said and every kid who has since spoken out has said he never did anything to them.
A small note on the Greek Calendar. In Greece we celebrate christmas on the 25th as the Gregorian Calendar is accepted both by the State and the official church bodies (Ecumenical Patriarchate, Holy Synod). The only people who celebrate on the 7th belong to a small unofficial and unrecognised schismatic church. We call them παλαιοημερολογίτες (lit. oldcalendarists), they are very extreme and toxic. They are generaly hated by everyone else.
Hmm interesting... So in Greece by and large you don't celebrate the 12 Days of Christmas or the Feast of Stephen? (Which falls or ends on the 6th, which is close enough to the 7th)
@@DigiVixen Generaly in Greece name days are a big deal. People who have a saint's name, celebrate at the saint's day and receive wishes by family,friends etc. Christmas holidays' "official" start is at the 6th December, which is St.Nicholas' day. It's the day we decorate the christmas tree. (Before globalization, because St.Nicholas is the patron saint of sailors, people decorated a miniature ship/boat). On Christmas day, besides christ's birth, people with names that have the word Χριστός (Christ) are honored. The 26th of December is usually refered just as: "the second day of christmas" which is a feast anyways, so St.Stephen's day is a bit overlooked. January 5 is St.John the Baptist's day and January 6 we celebrate the Epiphany. That day, priests bless the water, by thwrowing a cross at a body of water. Also people who have the word Φως (Light) in their name are honored that day. That's the official end to Christmass hollydays. The next ones are at Easter.
Thanks for making content on this subject. I was raised in a Catholic school since preschool and my experience with religion has never, ever, been positive. I actually fear going to church because all I can remember is how I was treated going into service, like I was a dirty little worm that didn’t deserve life (yes my catholic principal told me this verbatim.) It’s very refreshing and inspiring to see so many people in this community simply talking about their experience and how it affected them. I never thought I could live life without some kind of overbearing god predetermining how I live, coming through the words of a malicious pastor. I still believe in some kind of god, like a creator, but I just don’t know what he is or what religion is most truthful. Any time I ask about god or try to discuss these topics I either get looked at like I’m a ghost, or people tell me I’m wrong and that god is this, god is that. And NONE of it has been constructive. Thanks again, Owen, for bringing these interesting videos and beliefs to the light so we can all talk about it. We will never understand anything or anyone without conversation. I’ve learned how to live my life without fear of going to hell after watching your videos for a while. Some part of me still holds this fear but I’m slowly letting it go. Thanks to everyone else for sharing your experiences and I hope y’all have a wonderful year. ❤
Owen, I always appreciate you talking about your experiences with JW because it resonates so deeply with me. I wasn’t raised JW, but the cult my family grew up in is closely related in their belief system; we never celebrated holidays, my parents never celebrated their birthdays, and feeling completely isolated from the world as a result. We also weren’t allowed to eat meat aside from beef, chicken, turkey, salmon, and tuna, so that added an extra layer of feeling different and weird. The three of us are out now, but those beliefs have their hooks still so deep in all of us, and even after years of celebrating holidays and trying to branch out with food, there is still this lingering GUILT of doing perfectly normal things that the rest of the world does and has done for centuries. It’s so comforting to hear you and the others in the comments sharing your experiences with it, because it is very easy to feel like the only person who has gone through this nightmare. Thank all of you endlessly for everything you do, and for being a big part of how I can accept that I was part of a cult and know there is a light at the end of the tunnel❤
I worked with a 70yo JW who was always a grouch about holidays, the first and only Christmas party we had that both me and him were both present at work was held, and when everyone was leaving I asked if he was ok. He looked up at me and went "huh? Oh yeah, fine. I just feel sorry for all of you" I said "why?" And he said "because you're all morons." I was speechless, when I turned around to leave I glanced back and said "Merry Christmas, Dave". He quit like a month later.
I just had a flashback to a forgotten memory in elementary school. Everyone was talking about one kid who didn’t stand right after the pledge and eventually I stopped standing too. I want to say it was a “im not going to pray to a flag” thought process but that sounds too deep for 4th grade me or whatever haha I do remember we pretty much became eachothers only friend there that year. We’d bs and I got a pet for him on nintendogs for my ds xD In hindsight he was probably a JW. Part of me feels bad, I hope I never got him in trouble with his family or anything
True. I had a friend who was NOT allowed in my house and I wasn’t supposed to be in his house. I went to their church once and didn’t like it. Never talked to him again. 😢
I once attended a discussion group at a friend's non-denominational Christian church, and there was a teenaged boy in the group who was very distressed. He was upset that his friend wouldn't accept Jesus, and he clearly believed that his friend would be doomed if he somehow failed in his conversion mission. His friend's behavior- going by the boy's own account- sounded to me like that of a person who was willing to listen politely, but who was disinterested in the proselytizing. I remember thinking that this poor kid was on the verge of losing a friendship rather than saving a soul, though I kept my mouth shut about that.
I know a JW. Until high school he didn’t participate in anything. In high school he started accepting gifts from friends, and after graduation he booked it.
They are cruel and use psychological underhanded techniques to scare you and to ruin you if you leave? Oh my god . Wow that is criminal Terrible, terrible 😞religion.
I had 2 JW sisters as classmates starting around 2nd grade, they felt guilty about hanging out with me. I was too wild with my ideas for having fun... One time they told me that's what their parents thought. I will never forget this day, I was around 10. Halloween was the worst for them I think 😑 that was my favorite and I would feel guilty being happy around them. I always knew it was very traumatic for those kids, even as a kid.
Owen, I think you are amazing!! I’m not religious at all but I’ve gained so much knowledge about JW by watching your videos. You are intelligent, articulate, knowledgeable and amusing!! I’m so very sorry you went through that shit in your childhood 😢 If it’s any consolation, I grew up in a very toxic family with no religious belief at all. My point, here we are today despite it all and we can still smile 😊 Look forward to your future videos. Love from Australia 🇦🇺
The fun thing about the show Community where Donald Glover is on there for the first couple of seasons. Is that his character is sort of based on Donald Glover as a person where is the character also grew up being Jehovah Witness and they talk a little bit about how left out you get and they have a whole episode if I remember right about how they didn't celebrate birthdays
when i was a kid, all the classes would have their parties at the same time, so our parents would pick us up and take us to tastee freeze. But i do remember a time or two sitting in the hallway....
Even as a little kid you weren’t allowed to play with the neighborhood kids or kids from your school. Hanging out after high school, also a no go. But then your family looks at you weird when you don’t get out of your room or are extremely shy. Fk em
I grew up as a Mormon and I started watching your videos because there’s so many parallels. I didn’t go through the exact same things but I can still say I understand.
Did you have people who couldn't associate with you? Or were you banned from association with people? I wasn't good enough for a lot of my ward, so people weren't allowed to hang out with me.
I started watching you when my youngest was just a baby, probably 6 or 7 years ago. Love how far you have come, I liked watching your drawings back then. Much love!❤️
it doesnt border on child abuse, it is child abuse. Kids who do not socialize with their peers do not do well amongst them and therefor are far less likely to do well in general. Sometimes religious beliefs should be addressed as the mental illness theyre borne from.
I had to walk home by myself. I remember hurrying because I was so ashamed to be different I didn't want anyone to see me. I still hate being seen and wish I was invisible.
I'm 30 and I JUST started having a genuine personality and likes/hobbies. I left at 14 but that feeling of being "alien" and it isn't even the truth really does a number on how you perceive yourself. Being a witness is like customer service 100% with worldly people, and you're not allowed righteous anger or frustration because "don't bring opprobrium to the organization." You're also always in danger of being reprimanded within the congregation because someone might be "offended" or THINK it's "ungodly. " Like being on lookout 24/7/365. I'm so glad i saved myself.
This was so eye opening, thanks for sharing. I must in spite of your isolated upbringing wisdom of experience walks with you and you made it out, intact.🎉
My ex-best friend was always the one that had to sit in a corner while we all celebrated others birthday, Christmas and so on. And this video helped me so much! I understand now that it was made to be a temporary friendship, because I never wanted to be a JW. I think if I would´ve went to one of their meeting, we wouldn´t be separated, but I didn't knew and I think if I would´ve went there and didn´t liked it we would be separated earlier. So it was a loose loose situation. It´s still hurting.
Religious extremism really is the worst and Caleb and Sophia really makes my blood boil because of it encouraging traumatizing children. I'm not a former JW and I wasn't really deeply traumatized, but I suppose it was enough trauma being baptized Catholic and only going to private Christian schools (Baptist and Evangelical after elementary because my parents feared public schools). Given the religious narratives surrounding many things, but especially around introversion, women, and LGBT+, I grew up feeling like a monster and I still have guilt accepting myself and adults would scold me for my personality and interests, even tell me I wasn't a real Christian for not giving up all of myself for their denominational teachings. I don't know how to date, and am too afraid to because the religious folk around it just set women up to be vulnerable to abuse, basically. It's taken me many years to undo all of that and has hindered me socially for sure. Religious extremism aimed at kids is evil, the baggage and trauma from it sticks with people for life. I don't think the people in that level of religious indoctrination will ever understand how monstrous their actions are, and it's sad. I am not religious now, for sure. Isolation is horrible, and I do remember "isolate yourselves from the world" although it wasn't like JW levels. It's crazy.
When it showed the Animated Dog at first I immediately thought “Mr. Fluff you believe in the great Jehovah right? Answer quickly your place in this home depends on it.”
The Early Christians couldn’t convince people to not celebrate Saturnalia, so, they culturally assimilated it. Though, Christmas trees are Germanic in origin. Also, the term yuletide originates from the Germanic pagan deity yule. Also, mistletoe is a sacred bush in Druidism.
I was not born into a Jehovah's Witness family as a child, but this video shares eery parallels to my upbringing in a christian sect called the RCUS (Reformed Church of the United States). I was told from a very young age that christians were "not of this world" and that christians were "IN the world, but not OF the world.". My parents homeschooled me for this reason and so that the world wouldn't "corrupt" me. I rarely had social interaction until I was 15 when I finally went to a public high school. Throughout my life, I've struggled to form close bonds with anyone because of this belief that I was never part of the world and that part of the video where Caleb imagined himself blasting off into space to sever his connection to this world really hit home with me because I took psychedelics to do the same thing.
i rarely comment on these videos but i'm just here to say that this is the first time i ever heard of RTS, i did some quick research and i'm literally in tears because i finally understood so many messed up things in my life. i'd never given my experiences with JW too much weight regarding my current issues because i left when i was relatively young and unbaptized, also i blocked out a lot of it, i basically feel like my life outside is entirely dissociated, but now i'm actually tracing the dots and it makes so much sense. i don't know if it's relief/comfort or frustration/helplessness, but i literally started crying.
I always ask my kid's teachers if there are any kids that can't participate in activities just incase I need to make a special "not holiday" bag for them.
chistmas takes a lot of inspiration from a norse holiday though, yule. and they did, in fact, take over our yule celebration with christmas. so it's not entirely false to claim christmas has pagan elements, because they took over a north germanic celebration. there's literally a whole saga about it 😭
“It’s good to be different”. It’s not. Kids just want to be like their peers - that’s natural behaviour, learning to conform to the group. We’re basically pack animals; we need the pack to survive.
(So for context I lived with my grandparents until I was like 11 and my grandma would specifically tell my teachers to not let me celebrate anything) and I will never forget being in kindergarten and staying for the weekend at my moms house and her getting me little valentines lollipops to hand out to my class and my teacher taking them away from me and calling my grandma to basically report me. That shit was humiliating
Owen, my little sister had a stillborn. this was years ago when I was still full in the cult. It was horrible and almost unbearable. Especially for my sister and her husband. But, you know what one of my 'elder' brothers said to her? He said, " this is why my wife and I aren't having kids in this system." Isn't that a comforting thing to say to ones little sister who is lying in the hospital bed? Hours after having to deliver her dead child. This is why I push back against this doomsday, destructive cult. It ruins lives.
Thank you for your insight in your videos. I grew up as a JW during the 60s and 1970s and was called weird too, because of my efforts of not being part of the world. I got some comfort in believing I was pleasing Jehovah. In addition to being molded by a high controlled cult, my parents were verbally, emotionally and physically abusive. All of this affected my self -esteem, especially as a female. I was a loner throughout my childhood and, along with the lifelong JW indoctrination , was ill-prepared and inexperienced in my 30s. A vulnerable position to be in for a sheltered individual. I didn't know how to recognize predators, and the experience confirmed what JW taught that the world was wicked and couldn't be trusted. So I went back to the organization. But I woke up in 2017 and left again. This time for good. From many ex JW broadcasts, I saw I wasn't the only one who felt alienated from everyone in school and on the job. I look back now and understand now how many of the things I said and did, made me different or "weird" to others who weren't JW.
My first birthday i celebrated as an exJW ( i know it's birthday and not christmas but still ) with my Methodist wife, as an adult, they threw a surprise birthday party with theme of 1st birthday. They had 1st birthday cards, and decorated with kids decorations and had tinkerbell plates and themed stuff, and it was glorious and wonderful and I loved every minute of it.
That’s so sweet
Happy belated 1st birthday
I’m sure that is so exciting for you!, Extremely happy to hear you are finding fulfillment and enjoying life to the fullest my friend❤️
🎉🥰💜
I love this story. Most people don't remember their first birthday. Hope it was everything you imagined it to be.
@@temporarilyimmortal795 it rly was and my in-laws were awesome for throwing it for me and I have the most amazing wife for organizing it all, even going so far as to call my boss and have her swap my shift so I'd have that night off for the surprise party.
aw, poor kids :(. my headcanon is that Sophia leaves at 18 and goes to college and helps Caleb get out too bc those kids deserve to live a more fulfilling life than this
I think there's a fan series called "Caleb & Sophia: All Grown Up" where they left the JW and are trying to live a normal life
My headcannon is emancipation for both at 16 😅
Zoey too
The point Owen is making is what you went through makes it so you can never live a normal life.
@bettyvan1213 I don’t think the op or anyone else who replied here is unaware of that. No one said they imagine Sophia or Caleb moving on to live a normal, unaffected life, just a more fulfilling one. Owen himself is a living example of what they are imagining for both of them, as someone who left the religion at around 18 and is now living a better life, free of the cult into which he was born and raised.
I have an aunt that was supposed to a be a born again Christian and every time I would call her to vent, her solution to everything was Jesus. I literally had to tell her once that I was just calling because I needed someone to listen and she told me that if I was unwilling to be born again then she had no solutions. I really did not speak to her that much for a few years until her husband, my uncle, died from medical complications due to dementia. She is now damn near an atheist. So when my father, her brother, died a year and a half ago she was able to approach it with logic and common. We both got through my father's passing and we are speaking again.
Please accept my condolences.
I'm glad religion didn't manage to destroy your relationship)
I can't even vent to my mum anymore, cuz she just says, well, you need to trust in the lord. What does that even mean?
Damn, a happy ending. Wasn’t expecting that.
@@Itsaplatypuse wasn't the whole problem religion to begin with? Being a born-again Christian never brings anything good and I have a hard time believing that the aunt and OP ever reconciled. Like good for the aunt for finally snapping out of her phase and all, but I think it's just too little too late.
As an ex christian myself, it is a terrifying realization that there is no afterlife 😭
Sophia totally preyed on Zoe at her grandmother's death. It's all she knew to do of course. But now, Zoe's entire thing is based around her mourning. And now she's feeling all kinds of guilt, and it's utterly obvious. And now, she's working on her own MOM! Ugh.
I saw Caleb and Sophia playing at a (new) JW booth at my local flea market yesterday and it was such a jumpscare.
Always nice to see your favourite anime in public
@@realdragon😂
Is this a new thing? I've never seen a JW booth at a flea market before. I might check out my local flea markets just to see if I can find one there.
@@cryptbeast3222 I go to this one nearly every weekend and while other religious movements have had booths I didn't see a JW til now.
@@JuliaDelbel Maybe it's a desperation thing. They lost too many people.
That episode you played really pissed me off. It’s child abuse: “don’t have fun. Don’t be a kid. Be a loner.” No kid deserves to live like that! For what?! Or else God won’t like you anymore??? Is he that vengeful that he wants you to spend your life in the shadows OR ELSE? I spent 25 years in that organization and now after 15 years of being out, I am even more disgusted by the way things are.
The first time we celebrated christmas after having kids ( im an exJW ), wife and I sat down and she said it was time to stuff stockings, and I sat there waiting for stuff to put in her stocking and my wife was like "you didnt go out and get stuff to put in my stocking?" I was like "i didnt know i was supposed to?" and she was like "did you think santa claus was going to?" I just was like "i didnt even know we stuffed them until now." it never dawned on her that I didnt know stockings got stuff with anything to begin with. I had no idea how any of it worked. told the story to my sister and her husband and he started laughing and she turned red because literally the same thing happened with them. she didnt know stuff went in the stockings and hadnt gone out to get anything to put in his stocking, either.
That's SO sad 😢 I commend you for breaking the cycle, making sure YOUR kids don't have to go through what y'all went through.
There actually pre-made stockings that you can buy that have stuff inside them, so you can go that route if you don't want the hassle.
Also the concept of Santa is a bit confusing for those that don't know it works. "Santa" is an adult and/or other child. What happens is after the kids are put to bed, you spend the night wrapping the presents that are from "Santa", and filling the stockings, and leaving evidence of your presence (like eating the cookies and carrots and drinking the milk, maybe even leaving a thank you).
In my family we went a bit further. Of course we got presents from "Santa" and family and what not. But I also got presents from the Nutcracker Prince, and The Sugar Plum Fairy, and Aslan (who is a character in the Narnia book series, and is seen by some Christians as being an allegory? for Jesus), and Jesus, and the Three Wise Men, and such like that. It was a fun time.
One of the The Nutcracker Prince gifts I got was especially memorable, because it was a VHS tape of the Nutcracker which was by the Pacific Northwest Ballet troupe (doesn't exist anymore; disbanded) the very same year that my school went to see the play live by the same troupe. It was great because my Mom and Brother (older) had been humming the Sugar Plum Fairy song at me days before, and it drove me nuts because I recognized the tune, but couldn't place why it was so familiar. It wasn't until I opened the gift that I realized why they had been doing so. I felt stupid, but also I laughed, because "you got me" prank was funny. It became a running joke that if you were humming the Sugar Plum Fairy song, you were being sneaky and secretive and a surprise was coming. Also it is just fun to hum sometimes because it's a catchy tune.
My parents used to put small toys in mine, and a real Mandarin Orange that only came at Christmas.
Adults get stockings from their spouses in the US? Interesting. I feel like filling stockings is just for your kids where I live.
It honestly varies from family to family, region to region, faith to faith. Everyone has their own traditions and rule sets. I know that some folks will open 1 present Christmas Eve and the rest on Christmas Day.
@@naysneedle5707
Zoe: "I wanna do the RIGHT thing."
How infuriating. Making it akin to not stealing another kids lunch, or not committing murder.
Have fun playing Jenga, Zoe. Have fun with the prospect of a lifetime of being lonely, weird, and outcast.
I wonder what she did when her family celebrated Christmas that year? Did she lock herself up in her room? Did she think God aka "Jehovah" would hate her all of a sudden if she spent that time of joy and love with her family? Poor kid.
I would love to an episode where Zoe’s parents confront her and tell her that they aren’t Jehovah’s witnesses because her parents know that it’s all a cult. So they tell Zoe to let Sofia and Caleb down gently and that the kids have a falling out. But I know that will never happen. Being creative or thinking outside the box is not allowed.
I'd rather see an episode where Zoey helps them realize they don't have to follow in their parents footsteps and that they can have freedom
I would love that episode. I would be so worried about my children. My daugther bought a rosary and just like that wanted to be catholic. It was a few weeks thing. Kids are easy to brainwash.
@@aceclopsame here. zoe leaving caleb and sofia behind would just isolate them in the cult even further
Now that's asking too much of cult propaganda
Holy shit that bit where you mentioned how JWs view outsiders was a major lightbulb moment for me. I'm an Ex JW myself, and I'm also black and queer. I have a bad habit of assuming people will be racist or transphobic or homophobic toward me, and I can get way over defensive if I feel like someone looks at me weird or says something that comes out wrong. It's almost definitely because of the whole JW rhetoric that others will judge or persecute you. It's crazy that Im still finding mindsets and rhetorics that I need to grow past.
My husband does the same thing without realizing it. I keep having to remind him that no one's out to get him. The paranoia is so ingrained in him that even though he's been out almost 20 years, I don't think it will ever go away.
I was homeschooled until seventh grade. It took me two whole years to realize most people won't hate me just for liking other women. I still get anxiety whenever I mention it, but at least it's not as bad as it was.
It's crazy that religion in general can do that.
The isolation is what keeps JWs in their bubble.
Truth
.. and give opportunity to exploit Jehovah's Witnesses community members forever...
That’s the worst part to me, that they can just label everything as persecution and so JWs will take it personally and cling to the flock even more.
Yeah but it also exists because people don't know how to leave others the fuck alone. Why would a person want to spend their precious time with judgemental,mentally and physically abusive,hypocritical,condescending,incompetent BULLIES. The world is the way it is because we made it that way. :/
I’ll call it SIE. Self Isolation Echochamber
Your experience with watching live TV reminds me of another youtuber who grew up in a different religion/cult. She was homeschooled and said it was so isolating that she would pretend that the kids in the homeschool education videos were her friends and she would make up backstories for them. I can't even imagine how hard it must've been being so isolated from others.
I never grew up in a cult, however, as a child who grew up with abuse from my parents. I became stunted, as a 21 year old, as a trauma response, I still catch myself asking for things, like “can I do this” or “can I do that” or “will you let me…” like a child would, I still feel like I need to ask for permission because in my mind I still feel like a kid, and im afraid to do things of my own free will, so seeing Michael Jackson do the same, “can I open this?” Which was a clear childhood trauma response, made me feel so seen. I thought I was so weird, but realising it was a trauma response made me break down my responses and help me help myself. ❤ thank you Owen. I adore your videos, i look up to you a lot, and I feel an affinity with you despite me not growing up in a cult or having religious trauma myself, I feel in a way connected to you, I too, struggled and I still struggle with a heroin addiction which has made my life incredibly difficult and has caused me even more trauma, but I’m also a victim of childhood abuse so watching your videos comfort me greatly. I feel less alone and less unusual when I know that someone like you exists, and how you’re pulling through your hardships every day and making life better for yourself. I love you and I’m proud of you ❤
I've never been abused, but my mom was controlling. In my 30s, I still feel weird when I do something without telling her, including very innocent things (for example, going shopping, even though I'm careful when I spend money).
I can feel your discomfort when reading your comment, even though I'm far away to have your trauma. I wish you the best!
don't feel to bad about asking permission...it also shows other people you respect their space and being polite instead of arrogance.
I still think it's completely reasonable to say that parts of Christmas tradition were borrowed from Yule, because some elements are identical and Yule is older.
Yeah, its strange Zoe's parents aren't objecting to her bringing home JW propaganda books from her "friends."
It’s strange her parents aren’t suspicious of it, but they were also targeted at a very low point in their life. Sometimes that’s all it takes.
@@wildgrapesoda Honestly didn't even know she had parents.
@@3of6mylove to be fair I’ve only seen the mom lol
At least for us Scandinavians, Jul is pagan. It's literally from our viking ancestors, we even kept the Old Norse name. 😅
Scrolled to see if anyone else was saying about this.
I've seen videos of scandinavian Jul parades...creepy stuff!
God jul
@@pigeoncoop_zs2759 Right, me too. My husband and I are both Pagan and absolutely everything has Pagan symbolism - from mistletoe with white berries representing the issue of The God and the red holly berries representing the blood of The Goddess - to wreaths, trees etc. The church even placed the date around winter solstice, celebration of Yule - or the Natalis Sol Invicti - birth of the invincible Sun, when The God reappears and the cycle begins once again. The church changed that to mean the birth of the SON. Bottom line is that the church was having a hard time stamping out Pagans (and we're still here lol) so they set many of their "holy days" to coincide with Pagan festivals, hoping to make their religion more palatable to our heathen ancestors.
I like this guy, I actually was involved with the witnesses for a few years. The best part of the experience was leaving. Absolutely awful cult. And this guy is definitely very good at telling it like it is. I understand his dislike of ANYTHING the witnesses taught - but Pagan origins of things are simply history. My husband is Swedish (so his preference is the Norse pantheon) and my people were Native American and Irish, so Celts and indigenous people were my forefathers. We come from a long line of proud Pagans.
So while I do overall like this fellow and this channel I do wish he would stop stating with such conviction something that simply is not true. Just because the witnesses believe it does not automatically make it untrue. Really so far as I know the only holiday of ours they didn't hijack is Samhain.
Blessings to all )O(
I'm the quirky person I am today because of me leaving this brutal religion behind me. I'm sooooo grateful for your videos Owen. Very very grateful. I don't feel alone because of people like you.
You are drastically wrong on the origin of Christmas.
Saturnalia is not the only festivity, in North Europe there was Yule, and so on.
Every culture had a festivity around the period of the solstice.
The church tired to suppress every festivity, until they decided to accept and give a christian connotation.
Other examples are the various carnival (when nature is waking up), or Pentecost, or May 8th, or Assumption on August 15h (Feria of Augustus), etcetera.
On January 6th is the Epiphany, which is still celebrated in a lot of places.
As a Norwegian, thank you! We still call it by the Old Norse name here too. Most of what people think of as xmas decorations is literally thanks to the nordic Jul. Like, snow, pine/mistletoe/holly decorations, reindeer etc.
Yeah, Christmas traditions are definitely just a cover-up layer put over older pagan traditions, that were indeed connected to the cycles of the year and important days like winter solstice. There's not even a debate about that, it's just a widely accepted fact.
I think that he sometimes tries bit too hard to prove JW being wrong, resulting in him going for various sketchy interpretations as long as they are against what JW claim.
when i was about 12 i had a best friend that was JW, i didn't know anything about it yet but it is what got me into this channel, now it all makes sense, how we never got to hang out after school, how she was always put in the hallway during any celebrations, i don't have any contact with her anymore sadly, but i hope she's doing ok now :/
should look her up
I'm a former Baptist. I have a fascination with people shedding their repressive religions. I watch so many fundie recovery channels, and really appreciate yours.
I'm not sure what my point is other than to say my heart really connects to anyone struggling to understand the religion that raised them
Thanks for your videos
The only time I’ve ever heard that a child wanted to be all alone….and never see another person again, was in the documentary “Shoah” when the Jewish survivor of Chelmo shared how he dreamed as a child to only want three loaves of bread and to never see another person again….so sad💔
I would say many things rn,but ill just say this:
This sofia and caleb episode breaks my heart and brings me some sourly memories from when i was in my teen,in highschool and now that im on college at 18 and being pimo,ive decided that if ive ever get to be an mother someday,ill never make them feel the guilt i have.
Especially when being bisexual and knowing that ur parents dont acept u (simply because god says is wrong) and being one of the main reasons im struggling rn to not feel so much guilt abt my own identity.
This cult is taking everything from innocent ppl,we need to send awarness to others abt the dangers of this cult.
Edit:And yes im gonna leave the cult when i can be financially idependent,rn i have some financial struggles
I escaped Islam in much the same way. You DESERVE peace in your mind and joy in your heart. I wish you the very best in life. ❤
Okay, get off your guilt trip. God does not say it's wrong. The Old Testament does not and never did apply to us (gentiles). It was rules for only Jewish people. And it is mostly about Israelite life, sort of Jewish history. Jewish law was for the Jews like Greek law was for the Greeks and Roman law was for Romans. Quit feeling guilty for being yourself.
@@phillipstephens4522 well,imagine being bombarded with the cultist message that u cant be bi or any sexuality bc god hates that "lifestyle" since childhood and trying to overcome it.
Its not that simple
@@zeeaurora6264 im trying to do my best with the situation im currently at even tho that the guilt sometimes dosent go away
@@SofieXDD What I'm trying to tell you there is no reason to feel any guilt whatsoever. The best way is to realize that people are notorious for weaponizing the scriptures against people they just don't like. Show me one scripture where God or Christ said anything about gay, bisexuality, or whatever. You can't because it's just NOT in the Bible. And they are the only ones you should be listening too. When you strip the Bible to its bare essence we have ONE law to live by. It is in Galatians, I forget the exact verse, but it says in effect, This is the whole of the law -- love one another. Please note it says "the whole of the law" -- not one of more laws. Not several laws but one law. That is it! So try to wipe away the guilt and revel in the fact that you are uniquely you no matter what anyone else says. You have a right to live your own life in your own way and nobody else has the right to say otherwise!
Thank you for keeping up with Caleb and Sophia, i am concerned about these kids 😢😢😢😢
I hope they both grow to be Atheists.
Isolation is dangerous. They bring this out in therapy.
Is it? Genuinely asking as a disabled bullied former kid.
I think it was more dangerous to be on the brink of game over from all the bullying all the time. I loved not being around the horrible people (kids and adults) in school. I loved just being alone to read. Five extra hours of Goosebumps or Animorphs XD
I'm a lonely adult but I'm keeping out of the abled's way so who cares? I'm not on the brink anymore so it's less dangerous as far as I can see.
I can't keep friends but I know that's my fault because I'm disabled and I expect nothing less.
I'm being calmly (albeit confusedly) informative, not emotionally manipulative, before anyone yells at me.
Am I doing something wrong in not understanding? I am open to being corrected.
@@Roadent1241 in a general sense, social isolation like what's shown in the video can have some pretty significant negative effects on kids well into adulthood. A good example is "Karens" aka adults who throw temper tantrums over minor inconveniences and demand everyone bend to their will. Often (though not always), children who behave like this will incur the social ire of their peers, and grow out of the behavior as an adaptation. In simple terms, they stop acting like little snots because nobody wants to be around them, and they want friends. Good behavior = friends.
Now in the case of disability, things get tricky since many nondisabled kids aren't taught about disabilities or how to befriend someone who is visibly very different from them. And with disabilities, obviously they can't just...stop being disabled. So if the nondisabled children aren't corrected early in life and protocols aren't put in place to foster a safe environment for all, things just get worse and worse.
I'm speaking in general terms here, of course, but hopefully you get the idea. That said, you aren't naturally just doomed to be alone because you're disabled. One of my best friends has a variety of chronic illnesses, another is autistic, and three have ADHD. They're some of my best friends, and their disabilities don't change that for me at all. I hope one day you find people who see the value you bring to the world, if that's what you would like. You are worthy and deserving if friendship, just like everyone else.
@@Roadent1241 well, one sign you're doing something wrong is how casually you express your internalized ableism. You also say you're lonely and "on the brink."
It's okay to not be struggling in fact it is possible to thrive. Isolation is not okay.
Saying this as a once disabled bullied human. I was bullied straight from primary school to my first job. I never isolated myself through, I don't struggle with loneliness, even though I fear I might be getting in the way or slowing down the rest they've embraced me and we've nurtured enough community for me to know they don't mind and it's an acceptable consequence they want to meet, I do get the usual bouts of low self esteem and depressive episodes but have never tolerated the notion of "barely not being on the brink."
You matter more than this tolerable level of discomfort you've lived in. You can start making a change even if infinitesimally small. But always remember it is hard making that change and making things better for yourself. Things will always be harder for us disabled folk.
@@availanila I am well aware I have internalised ableism, which shouldn't be true because I am a disabled myself but I guess that's what happens when you're forced to live in the opposite world. No idea what to do about it especially since I hate myself.
People keep telling me to make changes. I don't know what changes to make. I have no options in the middle of nowhere.
You'd think with my creativity and 25 years to think with TV and internet for inspiration I'd've come up with something. But I've come up with nothing realistic. I can't take buses because they stopped going past my house. I'm not rich so I can't just take a taxi which would cost a lot just to come to the middle of nowhere. I can't walk anywhere because I'd be walking on the road and hearing people have said they wouldn't dare, why should I when I can't hear for crap?
I can't drive because I'm a fricking dwarf and dad's twice my height so obviously can't see the problem of me trying to follow the rules and not being able to anything in front but the sky.
Not that I have anywhere to go anyway or anyone to see. If they're not 5 hours away they're overseas.
@@Izzy-cp8yt Thanks, but I'm genuinely curious and sorry if I offend, how do you keep being friends with them? How do they not annoy you or how do you move past being annoyed?
I'm trying to see this friendship problem from both mine and everybody else's perspective. Is driving them away something I'm doing? Do they just get bored waiting for me to decide I can actually hear and think like a normal person and know how humans work the same way they do?
With MJ, it just floors me every holiday season when Jackson 5 Christmas songs come on. The parents didn't care about anything but the $$$ their kids could make for them. No, you can't *celebrate* Christmas, but you're going to make this Christmas album because.... money.
Makes me sick.
Since MJ's death, The Jackson family's networth has increased to a couple of billions. I read that somewhere. They've had a cash-grab! Ching-ching!
And that's show biz, kid.
They will claim him too
How is this not child abuse?!
There are people who believe it will make a stronger person; if a child suffers to an extent, it also just justifies some really messed up behavior for jaded adults who were raised the same.
Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean it's not child abuse.
@@shawnkerner2923CPTSD is complicated. It can make people stronger in some regards, but it can infantalize, weaken EQ and make their world views small.
@@brittvaughn9447 That's not really relevant, if you're ruining the life of a child who cannot help themselves, or setting them up for intense ridicule later on. I firmly believe families who do this are abusing their children, even if not outright beating them. Same with indoctrination.
It is!
From the weirdest kid at my school, to the weirdest kid at your school; You're right. Only we can understand the intensity of the trauma of being raised a jehovah's witness.
Look at you still self absorbed and think you’re special. Guess the religion is ingrained until death, huh
Hey owen, i doubt you read this but i still wanna say this.
Even though I'm not raised into a cult i still kinda understand you because i was considered weird as well, but for a different reason.
My reason, i am autistic.
My brain just works differently and thus people didn't understand me and i didn't understand them.
Now over the years i learned to understand them better but it still stays difficult.
So yeah i think i understand what you're going through.
Keep up the good work you're doing and know you have people that support you.
Isolation has become too normal for too many people
My first birthday after I left was from a my coworkers at the coffee shop I worked on.. I bawled. It was just a cake, but that they thought of me and cared and could show it.. I felt extremely loved and a little scared.
I didn't celebrate Christmas for nearly a decade.. I wasn't against it but didn't have the connection or anyone to celebrate with. Now it's one of my favorite times of the year and I still get pretty emotional about it.
Donald Glover is also in Community, and his character in the show (Troy) is depicted as growing up JW. There's some scenes in the show where they make fun of it. In one of the episodes, Troy has a great line regarding JWs: "We don't celebrate birthdays or Christmas, and we can't drink, but it helps."
There’s also the cake that Annie buys him for his birthday:
Hello during a random dessert, the month and day of which coincide numerically with your expulsion from the uterus
I wasn't a jehova's wintness but because of the cult I was raised in I was always an outsider in the same types of fashion, which made me weird to others. As a younger adult, after I had left, I would always tell the same "I grew up in a cult" to help explain a lot of things. That was a weird sort of comfort, to hear someone else has also simply laid it out like that as well.
Yep. Left without the normal social skills and not knowing any normal media references means you've got to say something to people. It's so gross that people do this to their kids.
Yeah, I had the "Oh, your grandma died, do you want to join Jehovah so you can see her in paradise" from a random lady, I took my grandma's death really hard, and I had one of those random cry session at the time when she came by and asked what was going on, thought she was just gonna try to comfort me like a normal person, nope, let's just say it took me everything not to rip her apart, the only thing that came out of my mouth was a very hissy "fuck you" between bouts of crying and the dirtiest look I've ever given a person, could have handled it better, but it did get the point across that I was having none of her shit
You did just fine.🥲
Thank you for SUCH a heartfelt video. Anyone watching can see and feel the pain you are practically reliving. I think this is an extremely important topic, overlooked by most.
I'm Muslim and Don't celebrate Christmas but I don't mind when someone invites for a meal because it's polite. JW are too strict
My Aunt is christian and we always go to her house during christmas. We're helping preparing meals and house-sitting while they're praying. When they got home, we have meals together and sing together, it's nice, warmfelt moment.
most of my family are muslim. after my mother joined the JWs, my grandmother, great-aunt and uncle started giving me gifts around christmastime despite not celebrating themselves. i always thought that was interesting, lol
It's free food XP Can't turn down a meal made with love.
Makes me wonder why Scrooge declined in CC...
I'm not religious, but I'd feel pleased and flattered to be invited to any religious celebrations.
I don’t know what goes into a stocking. I just randomly threw in small stuff I didn’t feel like wrapping and some candy.
Hahaha! me too!!
That's what I always do and what I got as a kid in my stocking --small toys and treats/candy
LOL that's kinda what my mom would do but she'd also put in a magazine of some kind (hunting and trapping for my dad, Mad Magazines or coloring books-when I was little i got coloring books- or small hard covered books for me. One year she even put in some good quality pencils because I draw, and at the time my friends thought it was lazy but at the time it was a great gift because I appreciated the smooth lead while I drew comics. Nowadays you could still give me that and it would send me into a wave of nostalgia😂
My family always put fruits, nuts, small candies and small gifts... like chapstick, hot wheels, a necklace, watch, rings, a thing to decorate the tree .. things that you can generally fit in a stocking or a sock. Maybe a gift card or some sort of envelope with money (in Asian countries getting red envelopes have money in them during the new year IIRC). We always put the stuff in a certain layered manner too.
@@DigiVixen chap stick hits different
I can attest that as far back as the late 50’s JW’s were using the “you will be together in paradise…” line. Disgusting! 😢
Mormons did a bunker exercise that traumatized me. Simply because I need to use the restroom and the ones in my bunker just stared at me they wouldn't help me at all with the following of the bunker rules... which was we couldn't leave our room or if we did we had to make sure not to get caught or we'd die... so I was like okay.... I need to use the restroom but they didn't help me make a makeshift portapotty or anything, no suggestions were even made even though I was begging to come up with a solution that would risk me leaving the bunker.... so I left the room risking getting caught.... and thought well if I just explained that I needed to potty that I would be just putting the exercise on time out.... but they insisted that I got caught, and that I was dead in the exercise which I felt was unfair. As such I fear going to the bathroom during work hours unless it's specifically one of my 15's or my lunchbreak. Also I think they didn't want to come up with a solution because I wasn't a Mormon, I was just a friend of someone who was, now that think about it.
As an exomo you not being helped in the pretend emergency situation they created because you weren't mormon is the most mormon thing ever.
Sorry you went through that.
But I was Christian, so to me, though I was told that Mormonism was a cult, but I wasn't convinced. I was more of the mind at the time (I was in my 20's) that Mormons were just another part of the body of Christ, and there's a verse about how there was in-fighting in early days of Christianity about how they were saying that other groups weren't really Christian because they weren't doing things exactly the same as they were. Like The eye telling the hand that the hand isn't really part of the body because it's not an eye. That sort of thing.
And although the event did traumatize me, and did put me off from attending that location for years, their actions lost a potential member. Because if I had stayed and continued, I might have become Mormon at some point, but we'll never know because they alienated me at a pivotal point. Christianity that I practiced also did alienating things that caused me to leave, without realizing what they were doing, and without me be able to communicate it to them.
I think a lot of Mormons, JWs and Christians are well meaning, but they just get so wrapped up in their own little focal points that they become the very thing they claim they are fighting against. Like they become modern day Pharisees and Sadducees. Claiming to follow a living god and that the book is a living book, then treating it in a dead manner is just so silly to me now.
@@amberinthemist7912
Isaiah 36:12 comes to mind while reading your story.😊
Are you saying that my story is BS? Are you making a claim that I bring false witness?@@visaman
@@DigiVixen no, that you had no place to defecate.
My experience growing up was so much like yours Owen. My mom took me out of school in the 6th grade and didn’t have me do any school work at all. I was trapped and isolated. I had one friend in the Kingdom Hall that I actually got along with. My mom was so jealous of her mom we were not aloud to hang out anymore. So until I turned 17 I had nobody at all then I got my first job and I got to experience what the real world is like. To this day it is incredibly difficult for me to socialize and make genuine connections. Growing up as a jehovah witness has impacted my life for the worse in so many different ways. No one I talk to has any idea what it was like and can’t understand so I thought I would share it here.
Caleb and Sophia are fictional but why do I care so much for them and their mental wellbeing? I guess because they represent, to me, the poor kids stuck in this cult, and I want them to be free to have a happy childhood.
I agree that this is child abuse.
When I was in 5th grade my grade took a field trip to the local high school to watch the band play a Christmas concert. I had no interest in watching 14 year olds play Jingle Bells, so I just... never got my permission slip signed. But I wasn't the only one left at the school. A boy from another class stayed with me, but he actually seemed sad to miss the concert. I wasn't sure why his parents never signed his permission slip, but now I think I know the reason. :(
They didn't make us sit in the hall, though. My 2nd grade teacher recruited us to help her students.
So I assume the black girl is a "conversion in progress" otherwise sophia wouldn't be interacting.
Yep, that's Zoe. Same Zoe that Sophia shoved a fucking bible story book/whatever the hell that book was because she was emotionally vulnerable due to losing family (Zoe's gran died) and well, Cults target those who are emotionally vulnerable. So yes, this girl is a 'conversion in progress'
@@DarkCrystalSage Yeah I totally forgot about that. JWs are a strange and insidious lot.
"Leper found Jesus." The literal comedy there got me. Even if not indended, that was funny.
And it's not 25th for everyone else :) In Scandinavia we celebrate on the 24th. Love your episodes. Keep up the good work!
I feel you brother ❤ i hope you're finding time in your weeks to get some good social contact. Saying you were watching live news to feel a connection made me feel a lot. It kind of sounded like a good idea... i think i need to spend more time around people.
I'm imagining the future of this universe. I think Sophia leaves to become a scientist of some sort, but she's alone. The fact she never really learned social skills as a kid holds her back romantically, but she has hopes this relationship with her current partner will work out. Caleb is too far gone, and would remain with the Jehovah's Witnesses, shunning his apostate sister. He'd be attending the local kingdom hall, with his wife, Zoe. Recruiting her to the cult is Dr Sophia's biggest regret. She wasn't even invited to the wedding of Caleb and Zoe.
That is now my official head canon.
My personal head Cannon is that Sophia becomes an atheist and Caleb leaves the JWs and becomes a Methodist minister, still needing some of the structure in a relationship with god. They don't get along well because they never learned how to tolerate beliefs that are different from thiers.
In my opinion this is your best discussion so far. A person can leave the religion but for a person ‘ born into it ‘ it takes years and years to peel away the layers of indoctrination if indeed one is ever free from the guilty feelings of just trying to fit in with society and do the normal things that everyone else does. A JWs whole life is about pleasing Jehovah, fearing Jehovah, not disappointing Jehovah, serving Jehovah, thanking Jehovah, praising Jehovah, loving Jehovah, phew! I could go on but I think you get the idea. These things are taught from infancy and all the while one has to be no part of the world.
Like 30 years ago, my mom had a JW friend that she, as well as the friend group, adored. One day, they planned a surprise birthday party for him and he was SO excited. He was so happy that his friends did something nice for him.
Unfortunately his parents found out and got really really upset (mind you, he was an ADULT.) But he just kinda snapped at them.
She doesn't talk to this friend anymore (just drifted apart) but last she hears, he is no longer a JW and happily celebrates Christmas with his family
To be honest, JWs aren't even that good at making propaganda videos. Their animation is objectively good, but their dialogue and narrative feel forced and bland. They make the holidays seem fun and themselves seem pretty boring, even when they're trying to do the exact opposite.
Right? Like they dont realize the videos are actually horrifying and sad. They are so deep in to it they just dont realize.
They need better writers who can come up with better lines and story direction.
@@GreenHotDogz They need beliefs that don't suck. Even if someone is a good writer, there's only so much you can do for a storyline that's centered around bad ideas. It's like putting lipstick on a pig.
Imagine loathing pornography and yet still somehow managing to produce content with considerably worse dialogue/acting than it like these guys.. 💀
I like how you can tell the bully girl is the bully because she has black hair and wears red. In school I had black hair and wore red but I wasn't a bully. I was the one who got bullied.
They're "villain colors" or something. Obviously that's dumb, but it's basically Disney color coding.
I relate so much. It hurts to remember my isolated childhood. Children have it the worst. They feel something is wrong but there is no where to go. You are stuck trying to make it work all the while feeling so lonely and isolated. I thought something was wrong with me. I raised my daughters free and clear. And imagine they turned into amazing good people. They didnt need all the ridiculousness of jws to be good descent people.
Thank you for telling it like it is!. Truth matters. These children always have problems and they are very lonely.
Actually we were told that we took it from Norse celebrations where the oak tree was used.... but to Christianize it we used evergreens to rep Jesus eternal life whereas the oak tree is deci'. Also it is said that in all reality Jesus was born closer to Easter/Spring due to when historically census was taken. But we celebrated it earlier to compete against pagan beliefs and get converts yada yada. -Source, me growing up Christian.
Norwegian here, yeah for us the it is pagan, we still call it by the Old Norse name even, Jul.
Nice! My memory isn't horribly degraded then. I come from Ballard, so Nordic stuff is in my formative interests. @@ChrissyCat87
Zoe!! Run away as fast as you can and BRING SOPHIA AND HER BROTHER WITH YOU 😭
I still isolate myself to some extent. I'm slowly working on making friends but I'm working on it.
Same. I feel too shy to do a lot of normal things. like its not even guilt anymore just pure embarrasment over the fact that i've never done this before and im too socially anxious to do it
I totally agree, i dont believe Michael actually did anything to kids, there has been zero proof ive found other than what the parents said and every kid who has since spoken out has said he never did anything to them.
A small note on the Greek Calendar. In Greece we celebrate christmas on the 25th as the Gregorian Calendar is accepted both by the State and the official church bodies (Ecumenical Patriarchate, Holy Synod). The only people who celebrate on the 7th belong to a small unofficial and unrecognised schismatic church. We call them παλαιοημερολογίτες (lit. oldcalendarists), they are very extreme and toxic. They are generaly hated by everyone else.
Hmm interesting... So in Greece by and large you don't celebrate the 12 Days of Christmas or the Feast of Stephen? (Which falls or ends on the 6th, which is close enough to the 7th)
@@DigiVixen Generaly in Greece name days are a big deal. People who have a saint's name, celebrate at the saint's day and receive wishes by family,friends etc. Christmas holidays' "official" start is at the 6th December, which is St.Nicholas' day. It's the day we decorate the christmas tree. (Before globalization, because St.Nicholas is the patron saint of sailors, people decorated a miniature ship/boat). On Christmas day, besides christ's birth, people with names that have the word Χριστός (Christ) are honored. The 26th of December is usually refered just as: "the second day of christmas" which is a feast anyways, so St.Stephen's day is a bit overlooked. January 5 is St.John the Baptist's day and January 6 we celebrate the Epiphany. That day, priests bless the water, by thwrowing a cross at a body of water. Also people who have the word Φως (Light) in their name are honored that day. That's the official end to Christmass hollydays. The next ones are at Easter.
Thanks for making content on this subject. I was raised in a Catholic school since preschool and my experience with religion has never, ever, been positive. I actually fear going to church because all I can remember is how I was treated going into service, like I was a dirty little worm that didn’t deserve life (yes my catholic principal told me this verbatim.) It’s very refreshing and inspiring to see so many people in this community simply talking about their experience and how it affected them. I never thought I could live life without some kind of overbearing god predetermining how I live, coming through the words of a malicious pastor. I still believe in some kind of god, like a creator, but I just don’t know what he is or what religion is most truthful. Any time I ask about god or try to discuss these topics I either get looked at like I’m a ghost, or people tell me I’m wrong and that god is this, god is that. And NONE of it has been constructive. Thanks again, Owen, for bringing these interesting videos and beliefs to the light so we can all talk about it. We will never understand anything or anyone without conversation. I’ve learned how to live my life without fear of going to hell after watching your videos for a while. Some part of me still holds this fear but I’m slowly letting it go. Thanks to everyone else for sharing your experiences and I hope y’all have a wonderful year. ❤
I hope you have a wonderful future also❤
Owen, I always appreciate you talking about your experiences with JW because it resonates so deeply with me. I wasn’t raised JW, but the cult my family grew up in is closely related in their belief system; we never celebrated holidays, my parents never celebrated their birthdays, and feeling completely isolated from the world as a result. We also weren’t allowed to eat meat aside from beef, chicken, turkey, salmon, and tuna, so that added an extra layer of feeling different and weird.
The three of us are out now, but those beliefs have their hooks still so deep in all of us, and even after years of celebrating holidays and trying to branch out with food, there is still this lingering GUILT of doing perfectly normal things that the rest of the world does and has done for centuries.
It’s so comforting to hear you and the others in the comments sharing your experiences with it, because it is very easy to feel like the only person who has gone through this nightmare. Thank all of you endlessly for everything you do, and for being a big part of how I can accept that I was part of a cult and know there is a light at the end of the tunnel❤
I worked with a 70yo JW who was always a grouch about holidays, the first and only Christmas party we had that both me and him were both present at work was held, and when everyone was leaving I asked if he was ok. He looked up at me and went "huh? Oh yeah, fine. I just feel sorry for all of you" I said "why?" And he said "because you're all morons." I was speechless, when I turned around to leave I glanced back and said "Merry Christmas, Dave".
He quit like a month later.
I just had a flashback to a forgotten memory in elementary school. Everyone was talking about one kid who didn’t stand right after the pledge and eventually I stopped standing too. I want to say it was a “im not going to pray to a flag” thought process but that sounds too deep for 4th grade me or whatever haha
I do remember we pretty much became eachothers only friend there that year. We’d bs and I got a pet for him on nintendogs for my ds xD
In hindsight he was probably a JW. Part of me feels bad, I hope I never got him in trouble with his family or anything
True. I had a friend who was NOT allowed in my house and I wasn’t supposed to be in his house. I went to their church once and didn’t like it. Never talked to him again. 😢
I once attended a discussion group at a friend's non-denominational Christian church, and there was a teenaged boy in the group who was very distressed. He was upset that his friend wouldn't accept Jesus, and he clearly believed that his friend would be doomed if he somehow failed in his conversion mission. His friend's behavior- going by the boy's own account- sounded to me like that of a person who was willing to listen politely, but who was disinterested in the proselytizing. I remember thinking that this poor kid was on the verge of losing a friendship rather than saving a soul, though I kept my mouth shut about that.
I know a JW. Until high school he didn’t participate in anything. In high school he started accepting gifts from friends, and after graduation he booked it.
I can't believe dogs are Jehovah witnesses converting kids by Travelling through time... Im a cat person now.
They are cruel and use psychological underhanded techniques to scare you and to ruin you if you leave? Oh my god . Wow that is criminal
Terrible, terrible 😞religion.
I had 2 JW sisters as classmates starting around 2nd grade, they felt guilty about hanging out with me. I was too wild with my ideas for having fun... One time they told me that's what their parents thought. I will never forget this day, I was around 10. Halloween was the worst for them I think 😑 that was my favorite and I would feel guilty being happy around them. I always knew it was very traumatic for those kids, even as a kid.
Owen, I think you are amazing!! I’m not religious at all but I’ve gained so much knowledge about JW by watching your videos. You are intelligent, articulate, knowledgeable and amusing!! I’m so very sorry you went through that shit in your childhood 😢 If it’s any consolation, I grew up in a very toxic family with no religious belief at all. My point, here we are today despite it all and we can still smile 😊 Look forward to your future videos. Love from Australia 🇦🇺
The fun thing about the show Community where Donald Glover is on there for the first couple of seasons. Is that his character is sort of based on Donald Glover as a person where is the character also grew up being Jehovah Witness and they talk a little bit about how left out you get and they have a whole episode if I remember right about how they didn't celebrate birthdays
I'm so surprised that caleb and sophia are both in public schooling
when i was a kid, all the classes would have their parties at the same time, so our parents would pick us up and take us to tastee freeze. But i do remember a time or two sitting in the hallway....
Even as a little kid you weren’t allowed to play with the neighborhood kids or kids from your school. Hanging out after high school, also a no go. But then your family looks at you weird when you don’t get out of your room or are extremely shy. Fk em
I grew up as a Mormon and I started watching your videos because there’s so many parallels. I didn’t go through the exact same things but I can still say I understand.
Did you have people who couldn't associate with you? Or were you banned from association with people? I wasn't good enough for a lot of my ward, so people weren't allowed to hang out with me.
You are a great teacher. You have taught me so much, thank you.
I started watching you when my youngest was just a baby, probably 6 or 7 years ago. Love how far you have come, I liked watching your drawings back then. Much love!❤️
it doesnt border on child abuse, it is child abuse. Kids who do not socialize with their peers do not do well amongst them and therefor are far less likely to do well in general. Sometimes religious beliefs should be addressed as the mental illness theyre borne from.
I had to walk home by myself. I remember hurrying because I was so ashamed to be different I didn't want anyone to see me. I still hate being seen and wish I was invisible.
I'm 30 and I JUST started having a genuine personality and likes/hobbies. I left at 14 but that feeling of being "alien" and it isn't even the truth really does a number on how you perceive yourself. Being a witness is like customer service 100% with worldly people, and you're not allowed righteous anger or frustration because "don't bring opprobrium to the organization." You're also always in danger of being reprimanded within the congregation because someone might be "offended" or THINK it's "ungodly. " Like being on lookout 24/7/365. I'm so glad i saved myself.
This was so eye opening, thanks for sharing. I must in spite of your isolated upbringing wisdom of experience walks with you and you made it out, intact.🎉
My ex-best friend was always the one that had to sit in a corner while we all celebrated others birthday, Christmas and so on. And this video helped me so much! I understand now that it was made to be a temporary friendship, because I never wanted to be a JW. I think if I would´ve went to one of their meeting, we wouldn´t be separated, but I didn't knew and I think if I would´ve went there and didn´t liked it we would be separated earlier. So it was a loose loose situation. It´s still hurting.
I just want to say that your coffee cup is absolutely EPIC!
Religious extremism really is the worst and Caleb and Sophia really makes my blood boil because of it encouraging traumatizing children. I'm not a former JW and I wasn't really deeply traumatized, but I suppose it was enough trauma being baptized Catholic and only going to private Christian schools (Baptist and Evangelical after elementary because my parents feared public schools). Given the religious narratives surrounding many things, but especially around introversion, women, and LGBT+, I grew up feeling like a monster and I still have guilt accepting myself and adults would scold me for my personality and interests, even tell me I wasn't a real Christian for not giving up all of myself for their denominational teachings. I don't know how to date, and am too afraid to because the religious folk around it just set women up to be vulnerable to abuse, basically. It's taken me many years to undo all of that and has hindered me socially for sure. Religious extremism aimed at kids is evil, the baggage and trauma from it sticks with people for life. I don't think the people in that level of religious indoctrination will ever understand how monstrous their actions are, and it's sad. I am not religious now, for sure. Isolation is horrible, and I do remember "isolate yourselves from the world" although it wasn't like JW levels. It's crazy.
Thank you so much for everything you said the last several minutes of this video
When it showed the Animated Dog at first I immediately thought “Mr. Fluff you believe in the great Jehovah right? Answer quickly your place in this home depends on it.”
The Early Christians couldn’t convince people to not celebrate Saturnalia, so, they culturally assimilated it. Though, Christmas trees are Germanic in origin. Also, the term yuletide originates from the Germanic pagan deity yule. Also, mistletoe is a sacred bush in Druidism.
I am shoveling mulch and had to stop because how fucked up that shit is. Watching the news just to see something real. Fucking horrifying.
I was not born into a Jehovah's Witness family as a child, but this video shares eery parallels to my upbringing in a christian sect called the RCUS (Reformed Church of the United States). I was told from a very young age that christians were "not of this world" and that christians were "IN the world, but not OF the world.". My parents homeschooled me for this reason and so that the world wouldn't "corrupt" me. I rarely had social interaction until I was 15 when I finally went to a public high school. Throughout my life, I've struggled to form close bonds with anyone because of this belief that I was never part of the world and that part of the video where Caleb imagined himself blasting off into space to sever his connection to this world really hit home with me because I took psychedelics to do the same thing.
i rarely comment on these videos but i'm just here to say that this is the first time i ever heard of RTS, i did some quick research and i'm literally in tears because i finally understood so many messed up things in my life. i'd never given my experiences with JW too much weight regarding my current issues because i left when i was relatively young and unbaptized, also i blocked out a lot of it, i basically feel like my life outside is entirely dissociated, but now i'm actually tracing the dots and it makes so much sense. i don't know if it's relief/comfort or frustration/helplessness, but i literally started crying.
I always ask my kid's teachers if there are any kids that can't participate in activities just incase I need to make a special "not holiday" bag for them.
I found your talk incredibly interesting. Thank you so much for opening up your heart.
chistmas takes a lot of inspiration from a norse holiday though, yule. and they did, in fact, take over our yule celebration with christmas. so it's not entirely false to claim christmas has pagan elements, because they took over a north germanic celebration. there's literally a whole saga about it 😭
My RTS is from never learning social skills from not being able to do normal things.
“It’s good to be different”. It’s not. Kids just want to be like their peers - that’s natural behaviour, learning to conform to the group. We’re basically pack animals; we need the pack to survive.
(So for context I lived with my grandparents until I was like 11 and my grandma would specifically tell my teachers to not let me celebrate anything) and I will never forget being in kindergarten and staying for the weekend at my moms house and her getting me little valentines lollipops to hand out to my class and my teacher taking them away from me and calling my grandma to basically report me. That shit was humiliating
Grew up with NO RELIGIN AND NO POLITICS. Had soo much fun back in rhe day. Love and Light, and so it is.💜 💜
That part about Christmas legit made me cry, I had no idea how bad it was.
Owen, my little sister had a stillborn. this was years ago when I was still full in the cult. It was horrible and almost unbearable. Especially for my sister and her husband. But, you know what one of my 'elder' brothers said to her? He said, " this is why my wife and I aren't having kids in this system." Isn't that a comforting thing to say to ones little sister who is lying in the hospital bed? Hours after having to deliver her dead child. This is why I push back against this doomsday, destructive cult. It ruins lives.
The blanket behind you in this photo looks like a Mitsubishi logo
Thank you for your insight in your videos.
I grew up as a JW during the 60s and 1970s and was called weird too, because of my efforts of not being part of the world.
I got some comfort in believing I was pleasing Jehovah.
In addition to being molded by a high controlled cult, my parents were verbally, emotionally and physically abusive. All of this affected my self -esteem, especially as a female. I was a loner throughout my childhood and, along with the lifelong JW indoctrination , was ill-prepared and inexperienced in my 30s. A vulnerable position to be in for a sheltered individual. I didn't know how to recognize predators, and the experience confirmed what JW taught that the world was wicked and couldn't be trusted. So I went back to the organization. But I woke up in 2017 and left again. This time for good. From many ex JW broadcasts, I saw I wasn't the only one who felt alienated from everyone in school and on the job. I look back now and understand now how many of the things I said and did, made me different or "weird" to others who weren't JW.