Look, I'm gay. I've been bombarded by a strictly heterosexual imagery my whole life to the point where seeing depictions of homosexuality is weird to me despite that being what I'm into. In ancient Greece, dudes had sex all the time because there were all sorts of cultural expectations that in certain common situations young men were obligated to have sex with older men. There are gays all through history, but people's feelings about men having sex with men is heavily determined by cultural norms. In modern American culture the norm is still that homosexual sex is taboo despite some thawing on that in recent years, so the only thing pushing men to want to have sex with other men is homosexual desire. Any conservatives that lament the loss of their ability to have "the Greek lifestyle" or whatever in modern America are gay (or bi, but they tend to consider those the same thing).
It seems like what they really miss is the opportunity to carry out affairs with other closeted men while their wives have to suffer in silence and cover for them.
@@sacrificezone It's never been easier to download an app and have a tryst but that would require these tradcaths to be somewhat conventionally attractive and in decent shape.
I am impressed you guys keep up with black people gossip. it is wild what is happening politics wise, pascal Roberts has his finger on the pulse of what is happening
There's a really fascinating trend in photography of male friendship throughout history, where you can see that basically post WW1 (as psychological definitions of homosexuality as a mode of being came into public consciousness) men stop holding hands and holding each other in these photographs. It is terribly sad that such closeness was destroyed by the fear of being perceived as gay, and remarkably stupid that Peg would think it was on account of homosexuality being more ACCEPTED rather than more shunned.
it's not gay to die with your bff. they did it in the excellent film first cow. but that skeletons holding hands twitter thing sounded gay and beautiful.
The category he's trying to talk about is platonic love. He's sabotaging his argument by trying to do historical revisionism about various ancient Greek soldiers. This is particularly a problem for Christians because platonic love is at the heart of Christ's message, and what the church seeks to engender between its members, aka the love of God. Once you slap one or multiple sexuality designations on everything, the universal love, which is also the ultimate objective of Gautama's Noble Eight-Fold Path, gets compartmentalised and alienated, especially when people are routinely making false sexuality assertions about other people to write off their faith. It relativises the universal love and makes it therefore appear non-real, or impossible, as just being some fools' denial about some particular sexuality, in the same way that relativising faith makes monotheism appear non-real or impossible, since anyone's One God is treated as being just another god, and just another consumer choice. You're wrong about the masculine trope of emotionlessness and reserve being peculiar to America. Us Brits invented the idea of the stiff upper lip during the Napoleonic Wars, which was associated with General Lord Wellington, in the turn away from the cult of sensitivity of the Romantic poets and non-redistributive elite poverty tourism to show how much you cared and showed it openly in your face and tears while changing nothing, and which was embodied by Admiral Lord Nelson and the simultaneous turn away from the Fop fashion to the Dandy fashion of male attire we still largely wear. It's been a standard trope of masculinity across the former British Empire to differing degrees ever since. If anything it's the present cult of (equally non-redistributive) sensitivity and public emotional displays, what we used to call vulgar schmaltz, that has been fostered by Hollywood and US TV shows since the 1980s.
I never really thought about how strict categories of sexuality does end up alienating you from the idea of universal platonic love or at least its primacy. Unless your polysexual, I guess.
@@patrickholt2270 Hey no problem, you earned it. It's kind of weird to realize that our society does basically consider romantic love the end all and be all with non-sexual and non-marital love as lesser because... I dunno. The concept of community is slowly dying, I guess.
I’ve got to say, there was definitely an “gay identity” in Ancient Greece. There were a lot of people who were bi, but even plato’s symposium directly references gay male, lesbian and straight love, during socrates’ musings on the origins of love.
I also want to point out as chapo did, that the cultures with the “greatest male fraternity” are very repressive towards homosexuality. They cite China (John Wu) but I would add the Middle East too. Lots of male fraternization but homosexuality is so taboo that it’s “allowed” in straight circles
I mean, I love modern America in terms of our sexual openness, I feel a great deal of comradery with people regardless of sex. In an age of trans and non-binary people, that PLATONIC comradery is not limited to the same sex.
@@SuperPal-tr3go I would say it’s hard to say because cultural distinctions as they exist today were in their infancy in a place and time like Ancient Greece. Pedastery was a cultural institution in some Greek states. Not to be confused with pedophilia as most Greek states had strict laws for underage sex. Ironically, Athens, which is often remembered in our media as “boy lovers” to quote 300, was actually very sexist and homophobic, with only a few stand outs like Pericles and Aristophanes (elites).
Lol idk why Matt said “quote-unquote democratic” in that context. Ranked choice does objectively make it more democratic thank first past the post. It’s a very good thing, even if in that particular case bad political forces gamed it. It doesn’t single-handedly make our system not a plutocracy, sure, but it’s a simple, immediate step that can literally break the “YOU HAVE TO VOTE FOR A NEOLIBERAL CENTER-RIGHT DEM OR ELSE A REPUBLICAN WILL WIN, SO SCREW WHAT YOU ACTUALLY WANT.”
Me and my bros always bump fists or hug all the time. My husband agrees it's totally platonic.
Underrated comment.
Look, I'm gay. I've been bombarded by a strictly heterosexual imagery my whole life to the point where seeing depictions of homosexuality is weird to me despite that being what I'm into. In ancient Greece, dudes had sex all the time because there were all sorts of cultural expectations that in certain common situations young men were obligated to have sex with older men. There are gays all through history, but people's feelings about men having sex with men is heavily determined by cultural norms. In modern American culture the norm is still that homosexual sex is taboo despite some thawing on that in recent years, so the only thing pushing men to want to have sex with other men is homosexual desire. Any conservatives that lament the loss of their ability to have "the Greek lifestyle" or whatever in modern America are gay (or bi, but they tend to consider those the same thing).
It seems like what they really miss is the opportunity to carry out affairs with other closeted men while their wives have to suffer in silence and cover for them.
@@sacrificezone It's never been easier to download an app and have a tryst but that would require these tradcaths to be somewhat conventionally attractive and in decent shape.
I was just thinking about today the first time I saw gay people in media at all was in family guy.
First 3 words of this comment made me think i was in a Cumtown video for a sec
@@sacrificezone Exactly that.
I am impressed you guys keep up with black people gossip. it is wild what is happening politics wise, pascal Roberts has his finger on the pulse of what is happening
pascal Roberts from @thisisrevolution podcast
"When I said 'destroy the ring' that's not what I meant" - Tolkein probably
Jesus died for the love of his homies. Clearly the gayest man in history
There's a really fascinating trend in photography of male friendship throughout history, where you can see that basically post WW1 (as psychological definitions of homosexuality as a mode of being came into public consciousness) men stop holding hands and holding each other in these photographs.
It is terribly sad that such closeness was destroyed by the fear of being perceived as gay, and remarkably stupid that Peg would think it was on account of homosexuality being more ACCEPTED rather than more shunned.
Men having romantic relationships with each other since time immemorial: I sleep
Calling it the word 'gay': Real Shit
God damn the boys are popping off in this one
it's not gay to die with your bff. they did it in the excellent film first cow. but that skeletons holding hands twitter thing sounded gay and beautiful.
matt is popping off on this one
52:00 top tier rant, I felt all of that
Matt Christman at his best.
conservatives resenting gay sex is one of the funniest things ever, Happy Pride!
i am ashamed to say that i audibly cheered in my car when i knew the crank was coming
The point about Eisenhower was flat-out incorrect. He had a female chauffer while he was Supreme Commander.
"DE-ROG-O-TYPE" dude I'm so glad Amber didn't have the hear that lmao!!!
26:50 for those who want to relive that
Gay episode. Really gay episode guys. Keep at it.
44:36 this mf said "Dilbert and Sullivan" 😭
The category he's trying to talk about is platonic love. He's sabotaging his argument by trying to do historical revisionism about various ancient Greek soldiers. This is particularly a problem for Christians because platonic love is at the heart of Christ's message, and what the church seeks to engender between its members, aka the love of God. Once you slap one or multiple sexuality designations on everything, the universal love, which is also the ultimate objective of Gautama's Noble Eight-Fold Path, gets compartmentalised and alienated, especially when people are routinely making false sexuality assertions about other people to write off their faith. It relativises the universal love and makes it therefore appear non-real, or impossible, as just being some fools' denial about some particular sexuality, in the same way that relativising faith makes monotheism appear non-real or impossible, since anyone's One God is treated as being just another god, and just another consumer choice.
You're wrong about the masculine trope of emotionlessness and reserve being peculiar to America. Us Brits invented the idea of the stiff upper lip during the Napoleonic Wars, which was associated with General Lord Wellington, in the turn away from the cult of sensitivity of the Romantic poets and non-redistributive elite poverty tourism to show how much you cared and showed it openly in your face and tears while changing nothing, and which was embodied by Admiral Lord Nelson and the simultaneous turn away from the Fop fashion to the Dandy fashion of male attire we still largely wear. It's been a standard trope of masculinity across the former British Empire to differing degrees ever since. If anything it's the present cult of (equally non-redistributive) sensitivity and public emotional displays, what we used to call vulgar schmaltz, that has been fostered by Hollywood and US TV shows since the 1980s.
Tm; dc
Too masculine, don't care
@@justcommenting4981 Whatever.
I never really thought about how strict categories of sexuality does end up alienating you from the idea of universal platonic love or at least its primacy. Unless your polysexual, I guess.
@@SuperPal-tr3go Thanks very much.
@@patrickholt2270 Hey no problem, you earned it. It's kind of weird to realize that our society does basically consider romantic love the end all and be all with non-sexual and non-marital love as lesser because... I dunno. The concept of community is slowly dying, I guess.
Pretty funny to hear Christman call someone a human 8 ball with hindsight.
Holy shit my time has come! First! Finally!!
Congratulations Comrade
Yea, great starter series to first. We all mostly get up at 7:00pm, of course episodes post at 7:30pm while most are still jerking off.
Daedalus flew at a middling height, in contrast to Icarus, who flew to high and had the wax melt.
im second and a black female
as a mixed race person, i disagree
I don't see color. Or people.
“Would you give a guy a foot massage?” 🙈💦
I’ve got to say, there was definitely an “gay identity” in Ancient Greece. There were a lot of people who were bi, but even plato’s symposium directly references gay male, lesbian and straight love, during socrates’ musings on the origins of love.
I also want to point out as chapo did, that the cultures with the “greatest male fraternity” are very repressive towards homosexuality. They cite China (John Wu) but I would add the Middle East too. Lots of male fraternization but homosexuality is so taboo that it’s “allowed” in straight circles
I mean, I love modern America in terms of our sexual openness, I feel a great deal of comradery with people regardless of sex. In an age of trans and non-binary people, that PLATONIC comradery is not limited to the same sex.
but muh transposed western philo/judeo-christian values
Was that a distinct cultural identity or just the admittance that different types of pairings existed?
@@SuperPal-tr3go I would say it’s hard to say because cultural distinctions as they exist today were in their infancy in a place and time like Ancient Greece. Pedastery was a cultural institution in some Greek states. Not to be confused with pedophilia as most Greek states had strict laws for underage sex. Ironically, Athens, which is often remembered in our media as “boy lovers” to quote 300, was actually very sexist and homophobic, with only a few stand outs like Pericles and Aristophanes (elites).
hug your bros
Lol idk why Matt said “quote-unquote democratic” in that context. Ranked choice does objectively make it more democratic thank first past the post. It’s a very good thing, even if in that particular case bad political forces gamed it. It doesn’t single-handedly make our system not a plutocracy, sure, but it’s a simple, immediate step that can literally break the “YOU HAVE TO VOTE FOR A NEOLIBERAL CENTER-RIGHT DEM OR ELSE A REPUBLICAN WILL WIN, SO SCREW WHAT YOU ACTUALLY WANT.”
THEBAN SACRED BAAAAAAND!!!
where tf is chauncey sullivan ???
Really wondering how you spell "de blunglero" or w/e their nickname for de Blasio is lmao
“de bungler” Joe de Bungler
What's the deal with these Virgil Texas allegations? Reading some not so good things these last couple of days...
They're not substantiated in anyway whatsoever.
Red Scare did a little bit about it, and it sounds pretty vague.
Who fucking cares.
What was said?
I mean. He *is* a gamer. I purchased $5 of bathwater 2 months ago and nothing. NAME AND SHAME!
The Biden dogs are sort of the Baron Trump of the current administration
Wish I could clip and share this
There’s nothing sexy about the past. Everyone smelled bad
That's hot.
@@slickstufneatstuf geez never considered that
Like, I would like to say like, that I did it like this and like that with like a wiffle ball bat like, you know like for real.
Champ is dead?!
This Peg guy reminds me a lot of these guys.
Chris's production is so lame, bring back Brendan
Hey c'mon. His mom reads these comments.