I believe the "I believe in you, Sora. You don't give up." is also reference to something Riku says after the defeat of Xemnas in 2. Riku is about to give up in the Nothing Void. Sora basically tells him it isn't over, and carries him by the arm. Riku knows Sora.
Maaan, I had NO idea how dirty they did Kairi in MoM with that minor line chage. The plot going forward, I had a feeling that whatever future game she was going to appear in, she was going to be dealing with some sort of survivor's guilt for being the "reason" that Sora sacrificed himself like that. That Japanese dialogue basically confirms my suspicions. I wonder how many other mistranslations are there, I'll definitely be more critical of the english dub now.
Yooo, I didn't even realize they even changed some of the facial expressions, that's so weeeeird. & all the stuff with Kairi makes me so upset! Like, she was more of a character in the JPN version just for the ENG version to flatten her out so much. I mean, I get her voice acting for the "once we set sail" does sound sad & not actually looking forward to it, but it's difficult to pick up. Poor Kairi. I've seen people talk about her anxiety about change just for people to call them a Kairi hater for even bringing it up. It's just, really annoying.
12:50 I noticed this for the first time with the UX translations. When I read the localization, I was always confused because MoM's explanations, as you said, were muddled, making it seem overly complicated in a way that didn't make sense. Then I'd read the english translations by blessed goldpanner; suddenly things started making sense. It felt like I could _understand_ what the heck MoM was talking about. Wouldn't be surprised if the issues with DDD and KH3's time travel was due to muddled translations. It appears to be more obvious with the more "I know more than you" type of characters. But, damn what a shame about Kairi. I knew it was bad, but I didn't know the localization basically made her character the stereotypical love interest and "tough girl" from the start.
@@indedgames4359 It’s fine if you personally like that kind of character archetype, but in conversations about what direction the series is going in, the localization changing how she’s characterized from the original language gives the audience false expectations of the writers’ intentions for her character arc and her role in the story.
@@indedgames4359 Oh Nomura definitely used the assumption that Kairi is Sora’s light as a red herring, because characters keep _saying_ that she’s his light, yet Riku is the one who is consistently associated with the sun, who appears as a ball of light when the KH3 tutorial recreates the KH1 opening… who Sora calls out to the first time he flies through the tunnel of light to save everyone’s hearts in KH3… who is over and over again framed in the narrative as Sora’s most important person, the one who he needs by his side in order to feel at home. In contrast, Kairi is associated with sunset and in KH1 indicates a fondness for dark, musty places away from the sun like the Secret Place on Destiny Islands or the underground waterway in Traverse Town.
@@The_Violet_Howler Understandable, she's a ginger! Sun bad! Jokes aside though, I get what you mean. Sora/Riku is quite similar to Zack/Cloud: One needs someone to bring them out of their shell, while the other needs stability in an ever-changing world. And, to quote your own words, we're all free to interpret the story however we like. Unless Nomura specifies anything, all we can do is guess what his plans are based on our own individual understanding of the narrative.
I feel so bad for Kairi fans. Her insecurity and fear of change make her a deeper character. Knowing this actually makes me interested in her as a character (FOR ONCE). But I guess the localization team thought that the west wouldn’t like that or something??? And this isn’t even getting into the ENG localization entirely removing Riku referring to Sora as his most important person. In my KH interpretation, Riku is undeniably in love with Sora. The only matter of debate is whether Sora reciprocates. Honestly, I hope KH ends with a Sora, Riku, Kairi OT3. Because why not lmao
Some of those hard transitions of narrative from game to game that feel disjointed make a lot more sense to me now. I had no idea that there were so many changes to the translations between games especially as early as the first game with the term "keyblade master" being a total misrepresentation of Sora's role in the series.
I think a really important aspect that you touched on in your video is that "accurate" doesn't always mean "direct." But that the importance should be on making sure the correct feeling, emotions, sentiments, and characterization / character moments get through. Excellent job on this!
There's a lot to be said not just on the subject of translating, but also the importance of localizing (taking translated text and making it make sense for a different culture). All sorts of things can have an affect on it; the localization team's experience, the team's familiarity with the story and characters, how much the original team is willing to share about future developments, personal biases of the team, more importantly, time constraints. And it's amazing just how much of it comes down to lack of time and, unfortunately, personal bias. f not for Nomura stressing the importance that the message of the story needs to be translated as accurately as possible, ENG KH could've gotten away with some of its shenanigans a little more. Some people may wonder what exactly could be so important about that, and I'd like to point out pretty much anything dubbed by 4Kids (ex: Yu-Gi-Oh) versus the original content. While the general ideas more or less came across, a lot of people do agree that the story and often even the characters were completely different from the original to the dubbed version. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it certainly does shake up a lot about how those stories/characters are perceived as.
I know this video is a little old but it kinda hit me after rewatching this series for the billionth time: You mention that Xehanort’s plan was to turn the world into a blank slate, where there is neither Light nor Darkness. Which is very similar to how Quadratum is described as in MelMem and Union X. But also also, Xehanort’s wants and desire to do so is EXTREMELY similar to MoM’s (who also wanted to end the war of Light vs Darkness) but was doing his plan in a more Light based manner (“the needs of the many out weigh the few” aka “we can’t afford to get sentimental”). And we KNOW that Xehanort met MoM (which we’ll hopefully see more of in Dark Road next month), so it’s not farfetched to suggest not only did MoM encourage Xehanort to go on his journey, but also influenced Xehanort’s wants and desires to match his own. tl;dr: Xehanort and MoM have the same goal but MoM is going about it in a selfless (Light) approach while Xehanort did his in a selfish (darkness) approach. And, like you said in episode 10, with MoM’s plans ruined maybe at the end of KH4, he (and everyone) will learn that Love (the perfect balance of Light and Darkness) is possible with the tools they have now
First It's so unfortunate that the scene in the tunnel of light with Kairi and Sora was changed in the way that it was. It finally showed Sora and Kairi seeing each other as helpful, equal, allies, even if it was only for a split second. That line would've meant so much for Kairi in the ENG translation. It doesn't even sound romantic, it sounds selfish and like Constructing Kingdoms said, cheezy.
With the benefit of hindsight, it only really sounds romantic if you aren’t paying attention to the context of the story around it (Which I was admittedly guilty of on my first playthrough). Even if you don’t know it’s mistranslated, Sora just said a few minutes ago that he felt worthless alone. “I feel strong with you” is just saying the same thing but with a smile to distract from his own pain. Knowing that it wasn't what he said in Japanese and that it was changed at the expense of recognizing and focusing on Kairi's strength makes it even worse.
I’m just replying because I genuinely got confused because I thought I posted this. I’ve just never seen anyone else use this particular iron before. Lol
I didn’t like KH2 that much. I am doing my own take. I believe we were supposed to get a few playable kaira segments. Including Destiny island’s mainland
@@indedgames4359 I personally disagree (I think the translators fell for something that was meant to be a red herring and couldn’t comprehend the idea of a boy and a girl _not_ ending up together due to their own heteronormativity), but you’re welcome to interpret the story however you like. Unless Nomura says anything about his intentions, all we can do is guess what his plans are based on our own individual understanding of the narrative.
@@eddog6666 You're not the only one. Kairi's scene at the end of KH2 when Riku *hands her a Keyblade* feels... unearned. Rushed, like an after-thought.
@@celineosthaus8032 I never thought of that before but it makes sense. Not only would translating something from English be easier than translating it from Japanese, but I also assume most places probably have more English translators than Japanese ones. Though it does suck because that means it wasn't just the EN translation wrong but that they set off an entire domino effect of making all the translations wrong.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Thank you so much for this video. As someone who has understanding of Japanese and usually watches the cutscenes in both languages, I've always noticed the inconsistencies and weird changes that the English localization does. You pointed out the most damaging ones, that affect the story, but I also find many that hurt some dialogues and change the intended meanings of what the characters are saying or give us a different image of them. For me personally, one of the biggest problems is Vanitas. He's one of my favorite characters so I've watched his cutscenes many times. I can't help but notice how in English they make him sound more violent and aggressive, even outright insulting other characters sometimes (like calling Ven an "idiot" when they first fight, which is not in Japanese). While he is violent and aggressive in his actions, his dialogue in Japanese makes him sound way more calm and collected, he doesn't swear or say direct insults, and he doesn't scream as much as in English. He sounds interesting and intriguing, not like an angsty teen.
The points that surprised me the most in this video, fantastic job btw, were about Kairi. I never knew in kh1 she was literally afraid if they were even going to make it... And I knew she said she was weak in khmom, but I somehow never connected it to that being why she chose to continue training, that makes that moment of her showing agency that much more important.
Her acknowledgement of still being weak is something that is actually touched upon some more in the KH3 novels. In the second volume, Kairi says things like this in her letter (it's called Intermission (Letter II) : "Training is going OK. Both Axel and I can make our keyblades appear right away now, and we face off against each other every day. Not only was Axel originally a member of Organization XIII, but he’s also stronger than me, so he’s teaching me a lot. Though he’ll ask me, “Got it memorized?” and I do, I’m having a hard time moving my body so readily." So here we can see that Kairi is acknowledging that she isn't quite up to par yet and still has some weakness. She also takes note of how much Riku has changed (physically). Then she wonders if Sora has too, indicating how she feels a bit distanced from them: "Come to think of it, how is Riku doing? Riku, he’s gotten so tall, hasn’t he. I wonder if you’ve grown too, Sora. I look forward to the day when I can reunite with you both." In the KH3 novel, Vol. 3, it is also made clear through a novel only scene that Kairi cut her own hair. Her thought process here is rather interesting: "Kairi looks over the new clothes, peers at herself in the mirror one more time, and then clutches a few strands of her hair. Thinking about it now, 'Why did Riku cut his hair?'* During her time training with Axel, her hair had a grown a bit longer. Which would Sora like better, long hair or short hair? Kairi takes out a pair of scissors from the draw of a desk in the corner of the room and moves the blade, staring at it for a bit. Then she moves in front of the mirror and grabs the tips of her hair. 'Hmm, would shoulder length be good?' 'I just hope I don't mess it up.'" There's another letter that she seems to be writing too. This time it seems to be to both Sora and Riku. Once again, it shows how she feels distant from them, but also how she wants to become more involved. Her language (in the actual Japanese) is more speculative and hesitant though, usually ~kana and ~darou to show uncertainty: "I think I'll cut my hair. A new journey is about to begin after all. Or, perhaps it's already starting. Where are you two right now? What are you doing? Just as you both have helped me, I think I'll set out to help you. The people you'll meet along the way, the people you've met along the way, the people who need your help. I wonder if I can be one of those people too?*** Please take care of yourself until the day we meet again. I'm doing fine." I know many, many people consider the novels to be non-canon, but these extra bits with Kairi makes her character arc in KH3 and KHMOM seem more complete and understandable. Like, these moments really fill in the gaps. It makes me wish that they had been included into the game via Remind or the like.
@@LilyGinnyBlack35 oh ehy, TH-cam didn't notify me on this lovely comment, thank you!! I thankfully already knew about the fantastic additions the novels do, especially the kh3 one with Kairi. The best ones has to be however the gut wrenching Vanitas secret backstory in the bbs one! Oh boy, who doesn't like physical abuse and a child vomiting out their own anguish in a Disney product??
Wow your explanation of Kairi's mistranslations actually makes a lot more of the hints that I was getting about her character seem more solid while also making her more likable then I was giving her credit for.
@Inded Games There is, because that is a _theory_ , not a fact. A large percentage of the fandom _assumes_ that Sora and Kairi are the intended romance because of their own personal impressions of the story and the lack of any comment from Nomura that directly says anything one way or the other. We’re all free to interpret the narrative however we like. But until Nomura or any of the other writers say anything definitive in interviews or explicitly define Sora and Kairi’s connection as mutually romantic in the script, any claims about their intentions are just speculation based on our own individual views of the series.
dang, the vid was this long and you didn't even mention the whole "taisetsu na hito" vs "strength to protect what matters" watering down of riku's feelings! really goes to show how squareNA needs to get it together
That, to be fair, is a bit of a tough one. Saying "what matters" is much vaguer than "people important to me", but I wonder what a better translation might be that'd still fit the lip flaps (or at least timing of the line - honestly, I'd much rather have mismatched lip movement if it means better translation) I'm not a translator (and I'm also very tired at the time I'm writing this lol) and having trouble thinking of a good wording that wouldn't sound awkward or make the voice actors have to speed read the line
@@zingodoom They translated the same phrase two other times as the person Hercules/Elsa loves, when it's a direct parallel. Not to mention, don't they re-record the lip syncing for the en version?
I have this issue with the manga; when I read them I compare all three translations (tokyopop, yenpress, and the aku-tenshi fan translation) and the differences are wild sometimes
SENA top manager: "It is necessary to eliminate any reference to religion." SENA employee: "But the foretellers have the names of the 7 deadly sins, how do we get around that?" SENA top manager: "Ah don't worry, the US don't know Latin." SENA employee: "There remains the problem of the Ark." SENA top manager: "Just call it a Lifeboat and we've solved it." All kidding aside, great video as always Howler. You've made the localization and translation issues clear. The truth is that these poor translators/adapters aren't given much time to do their best work, often don't know the previous installments at all, and get paid very little. That's why it's right to point out these inconsistencies, SENA must realize what they are doing.
Holy hell, I did NOT realize so many of the issues western audiences have with the story can be chalked up (at least partially) to incorrect localization. The way I rolled my eyes at "I feel strong with you, Kairi" just to finally find out that's not what he should be saying is MADDENING.
I knew there was something off about Kairi. So it was the localization after all. There were a lot more than I expected too. I knew about Riku in KHI and Xehanort in KHIII but the one with Roxas makes it sound like he either calls the keyblade a he, which is ridiculous, or he’s cursing God for favoring Sora, which is admittedly a big stretch.
Honestly cursing god for favouring someone else while he suffers is something I really wouldn't it put past Roxas to do lmao. big Lucifer energy, fallen angel style
More like he is realizing, because he is in Sora's Heart, that Riku's Light (a Meta Angel) chose Sora. (Because of Love). And the Book of Prophecies is about them, So God/Destiny, yes.
@@Fragmentsinfractals488 I think that is a bit of a stretch. After all, why would he care if Riku chose Sora over him? He doesn't know Riku. So why get all, "Why did he choose you?!" as if it is some personal betrayal? The original translation where he is referring to the keyblade makes the most sense.
I imagine the scene where Kairi confronts the illusory Xehanort was done so that she didn’t appear too weak as a response to how people reacted with 3.
I just realized Roxas's "Tell me why he picked you" still works, you just have to think about it harder. Sora was unchosen Chosen. And Riku unconsciously pick him. That is what the palm up, hand out gesture is. It is the "offer to connect Hearts". The become One gesture. Riku also does this unconsciously when he becomes a Dream Eater. So, Sora was chosen because Riku's Heart picked him. It is also implied Roxas recognizes the Child of Destiny properties Sora and Riku have when he sees Sora's stained glass (Sora's Heart). Roxas just doesn't know how to articulate that. I also just figured out the "Tell me why he picked you" leads from "Riku? I defeated a Riku once...." with insinuation that Riku is the "He". Then, this fight is basically Roxas testing to see if Riku was correct in his unconscious belief in Sora. When Sora wins, Roxas confirms his belief in Sora to "Axel", too, and gives himself to Sora.
Yeah the majority of interpretations you'll see of that line from english fans are that "he" means either Riku, bc of the previous dialogue, or Axel, bc of his death minutes prior that prompted Roxas to come forth and attack Sora in the first place. "Tell me why he picked you" to live and continue existing in the waking world, instead of picking Roxas. Like he's asking why he isn't just as entitled to his own existence, why is Sora so much more special and he isn't. And then he sees all the images of people in Sora's heart station, all the friends in his heart, all the connections he has to so many other people, and realises that it Has to be Sora. Buuuuut turns out he was talking about Sora's keyblade all along lol. The reason is the same though so hey
honestly, this makes me want to go through the entire series again with the japanese version, translated by someone other than square enix. i feel like i’d understand the story of the series much better than what the official English translation gives us.
i found the first episode a week ago and ive been looking forward to this one! its fantastic. it really shines a light on scenes that seemed off without me being able to put my finger on why. thank you for uploading and i am hoping these next two weeks fly by 🤩
I had no idea that the localization had actually CHANGED FACIAL EXPRESSIONS AND ANIMATIONS The claim it was only ever for the lip flaps is bogus. I can’t believe they actually toned down Eraqus’s smile in the final scene with Xehanort. THATS LITERALLY THE CONCLUSION OF BOTH OF THEIR ARCS!!! And holy hell does this explain a lot of plot holes. The “blank canvas” motivation of Xehanort makes SO MUCH MORE SENSE. Wtf, localization team 😭😭😭
The thing with Xehanort's final speech is not per se the mistranslation but more that the translation used a metaphor for what he said. In a series where the concepts of light and darkness are the main plot points and are constanly being discussed and talked about by the characters, you can't make a metaphor with these plot points. It leads to confussing because the audience thinks that what the character said as a metaphor is to be taken at face value.
Really interesting video! Something I’ve always though might be a translation error is how in KH1 the characters make destiny island sound like the only island, obviously from context clues like the boats and there being no possible place for Sora’s house to be there you know this isn’t true but it always seemed a little confusing (though I can see where that error originated from, since you can’t see another island from anywhere on destiny islands in KH1)
I just realized that "The Keyblade Master" could be read as "The X-blade Master" and the Child of Destiny will probably wielded it. The Truth is what you see. The Kingdom Key in Two is part of The X Blade that "opens the Door and changes the World." (Riku and Sora)
Wow, this is a fantastic analysis. Would wanting the Japanese version of KH with English subs circumvent this issue? Or am I stuck with watching the English version and then an analysis video pointing out the mistakes? I wish this video were not necessary, but I thank you for opening my eyes. The issue of translations is so much worse than I thought it was...
This is really interesting, I'd never really looked much into the JP versions story and didn't realise so much had changed. Subbed, would love to see more stuff like this as a deep dive
what an absolutely important video, thank you so much for making it! i wish this would've gone viral instead of that dream realm theory thing, honestly. i feel like the fandom would've been a better place if it did since it explains so many bizarre lines, specially from kairi.
I mean, the dream realm theory mentioned and included a lot of these mistranslations corrections as well, but it's true that this vid specifically centered on em would make a lot of good, yeah
I really appreciate the time and effort you've put into this series! It's a breath of fresh air to see actual analysis of the story that's taking fact, text, and subtext into consideration when talking about the characters and plot of the games
Really wish they'd properly re-translate Kingdom Hearts honestly, but with how large of a franchise it is by now, this would either have to be in increments, or would be forced all at once at a large cost that I don't think anyone would be on board with. It's just too bad, because the mistranslation actively undermines the story, themes and characters.
They could put on accurate subtitles when putting on the japanese version or something, that would not be as great a cost and the fans would appreciate it
This video series changed my view on kingdom hearts and really expanded my horizons of my understanding of this game. Thank you for making such in depth and insightful essays on the hidden but vital elements of the games! I would like to know, is there any way of checking out their original Japanese scripts that you know of? If so is there a version where they happen to have been more literally translated to English like the Union X fan subs? If not, that’s ok. I’m just being a lazy ass for not understanding Japanese myself ^w^;
Thank you so much for this video. I really enjoyed the comparison between the correct japanese skript and the mistranslated english version, since it was really hard to find this information on the internet by myself!!! ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
The Noah's arc thing is probably not really at all the translators fault, America is extremely touchy about Religious references, and so if something isn't targeted at an older audience, they kinda have to take out any religious references that aren't literal Christianity happening in a story
1st observation: Huh. So I suppose the better translation, given the context of the Japanese dialogue, would have been for him to say something like "a clean slate" rather than "pure and bright", since that's what he's actually describing. 2nd observation: Yeah, that scene would have been so much better if they had Riku lift Sora up rather than reject his pain like that. 3rd observation: Of course the shippers and pseudo-feminists have to step in and ruin a good female character. *pout* 4th observation: Ah yes. We can't make the blatant Biblical references in a video game. That would be *gasp* offensive to radical conservatives who probably won't play the game anyway! 5th observation: Okay, that last one with the Master of Masters is just plain funny as a screw up. No less frustrating, but one that's easier to poke fun at. Kind of like the infamous "I am Error" line from Legend of Zelda.
I can only speculate that the reason for some of these localization changes is because they want to keep it kid friendly. But the whole point of why this series ended up being darker in the first place is because they wanted to avoid seeming kid-friendly. It's a real shame that these localizers seem to want to avoid making these games Seem more mature than they really are, showing that they completely misunderstand their audience. It's like four kids, although not nearly as bad.
One of Xemnas's battle quotes is "We shall go together" isn't it? Riku and Xemnas are both vessels for Xehanort, and that scene in Dream Drop where Riku flashes over Young Xehanort leads to Sora almost becoming one so that makes sense.
You are a fucking saint. Thank you so much for this it’s so Important I hope this video gets more attention. I’m so glad this video appeared on my fyp.
I remember a huge google document coming out a few months after KH3's release and a part that sticks out to me is how the English translators basically really didn't like how open Sora & Riku's relationship is, e.g. in the frozen world when Sora is comparing Riku to Elsa he literally says he loves in, in Japanese they have a bunch of different words to describe love, like you love your friends or family members is different from romantically saying "I love you" but in our English western world we can say "I love you" to basically anyone, friends, family, partners or something else. As you also brought up, they also rewrote Riku's last words to Sora so you can't compare him with Kairi and made Sora's scene with Kairi way more romantic then originally written. This isn't my shipping side talking, I'm just sad apparently a dude can't say he loves his guy friends or even being positive him while he's grieving and also be just friends with a girl.
Man I love being a English only speaker who likes a Japanese thing that getting everything wrong in it's Translations. It makes it feel like I've been in love with this whole damn thing for the wrong reason now.
To give credit where it’s due, the translators for KH generally do a decent job of accurately conveying the meaning of what they’re translating most of the time. It’s just that the moments when they don’t can result in audiences getting a different impression of a scene or story element than what the original writers actually intended.
A little before 4:18 that makes me curious about a hypothetical AU. Marluxia wasn't after power for its own sake, by your words. What if, instead of using Namine to manipulate Sora, Marluxia was instead upfront about his coup to Sora, and offered him transport across the worlds in exchange for his help?
It’s not that the localization is bad per se. While the focus of this video is on the negatives, for the most part the English versions of KH honestly does a decent job of conveying everything. But from a literary analysis perspective it’s important to recognize that the translators are not perfect and that people shouldn’t just take the versions in languages other than the original at face value as always 100% accurate. Because even when the translation conveys the right ideas, there can still sometimes be subtext, symbolism, or other nuances contained within the word choice used in the original language that don’t translate well. Which are valuable to know when analyzing the story to determine those original writers’ intentions for the story.
Wow... I already knew that the translation isn't completely accurate, but that it is this bad... even changing facial expressions? Really!? Why are they doing that? ... I wish I could speak japanese... maybe I'll learn it and play every single game again, this time in japanese.
man this kind of stuff makes me sick... the amount of disrespect to fans and the art. But thank you, you made me reealize something big about xehanorts plan and ill be using that in my future video :)
"You don't believe that. I know you don't" is something we tell others when we want them to see their belief was wrong, poorly thought out, or reached under the wrong circumstances. It doesn't literally mean "you don't believe this". Riku was expressing support, same as the JP version, just in a way that wouldn't read as cheesy for English audiences.
Not gonna lie, most of your complaints are a matter of good localisation being treated as more important than directly exact translation. It doesn't help that they're ptesented as a petty rant
If I had to make this video over again, I would definitely redo the audio a few times to make sure my frustration with how some fans on twitter and tumblr put the localization team on a pedestal doesn’t come through so much in my performance, so that it sounds more professional and less like a rant. But my point in this video is that things like “insight into Marluxia’s motivations being thrown out in favor of him speculating about Axel's even though it contradicts his own characterization” or “changing Sora’s recognition of Kairi’s strength in KH3 to be about how she makes HIM feel strong” are NOT good localization. One of the easiest ways to identify patterns and recurring ideas in a story, particularly one that builds up over multiple installments like KH does, is through using repeated phrases of dialogue as a way to signal to the audience that there’s a connection between certain characters/scenes/events. When a line or word is localized in two different ways in two different scenes to convey two different ideas that were meant to be the same, it becomes much easier for more casual fans to miss those narrative connections. To use the same example you brought up, I will grant that “You don’t believe that, I know you don’t” might convey Riku expressing support for Sora. However the English line loses its oomph because it’s meant to be part of a specific pattern of Riku expressing that HE believes in Sora. So while the localized line is fine by itself, when placed into the larger pattern it’s like a band playing every few notes of a song off-key. The whole reason I made this video is because I've seen too many people in the KH fanbase act like the localization is perfect as is, and always correctly reflects the developers’ original intent 100% of the time, and that the localization team is above criticism... But just because the localization is good most of the time doesn’t mean that it’s good ALL of the time, and I wanted to have a single video explaining why theories/analysis shouldn’t take it for granted that every change the localization team made is a good one so that I wouldn’t write out a whole essay to respond whenever I mention the original meaning of a line in the JP version and someone in the comments tries to argue that the difference between the versions don't matter.
To be fair, I think KH is kinda different from the usual video game franchise. In order to do truly proper translations of the game, you *need* to know the lore behind it really well, since all of the games are very interconnected. That's something you usually find with a TV series, book series, or movie franchise rather than with video games. It would be nice though, if going forward, SENA got translators for future KH games that are fully aware of and fully understand the pre-established lore of the series and would be able to spot callbacks and etc. Also, translating a game directly...is not a good thing to do. The issues with these translations aren't that they are loose translations, but that they are failing to capture the right nuances, call backs, and etc. A translation becoming direct will result in really unnatural and stilted dialogue, which isn't a good thing. Basically, the ideal here is to maintain loose translations that still highlight character moments properly and maintain the proper feelings, emotions, sentiments, and lore of the characters and series as a whole.
The examples given about Kairi aren't the only mistranslations about her, right? Seeing a less confident Kairi, acknowledging her lack of strength and try to become a better version of herself sounds like a great idea to me! And I find Sora complimenting her wholesome. But, seeing an overconfident character getting beaten by the script makes me take them less seriously and see them as comic relief at worst.
Good job ^^ It's a shame that SENA tends to fck up the localisation for kh since it shapes the way westerners perceive the series and nomura. Also it sucks what they've done to kairi (she doesnt have to be a Tough Girl! Sora doesnt know what love is!). After reading the tumblr essay on Pooh's Grand Adventure (and watching the film), i have the feeling sora's jp line might be brought up again. Oh and have you read the character files (both the official eng and jp)?? It sounds like the eng version should've spent more time making the content sound better and simpler lol
Is there a way to watch all the cutscenes of the series with those most 1 to 1 translation possible or better yet a way for english fans to play rhe game english sub with good subtitles modded in. If not that's something that would be fantastic for this fandom i think.
unfortunately to my knowledge there aren't any mods for something like that. At least, not that I or any of my friends have heard of. But it's definitely a really cool idea!
While you did make some interesting (and definitely valid in some cases) points, I do wholeheartedly disagree with a lot of what you said here. Keep in mind that a localization team's job is not to literally directly translate everything 1:1 in the Japanese script. I originally wrote out a longer comment here, but it's clear that you put a lot of effort into this video. Keep it up. Even if I disagree, seeing passionate Kingdom Hearts fans making content is really awesome. :)
I dont ship Sora with Riku b/c i hate Kairi, i ship him with Riku cuz hes not good enough for Kairi!!! Everytime she interacts with him feels like its all about him >:(
If you know any Japanese yourself, your best bet is one of those online Japanese translation sites using fan translation blogs, online transcripts of the game, or even listening and writing it down yourself to get the text to plug into the translation site.
I believe the "I believe in you, Sora. You don't give up." is also reference to something Riku says after the defeat of Xemnas in 2. Riku is about to give up in the Nothing Void. Sora basically tells him it isn't over, and carries him by the arm. Riku knows Sora.
Maaan, I had NO idea how dirty they did Kairi in MoM with that minor line chage. The plot going forward, I had a feeling that whatever future game she was going to appear in, she was going to be dealing with some sort of survivor's guilt for being the "reason" that Sora sacrificed himself like that. That Japanese dialogue basically confirms my suspicions. I wonder how many other mistranslations are there, I'll definitely be more critical of the english dub now.
Yooo, I didn't even realize they even changed some of the facial expressions, that's so weeeeird.
& all the stuff with Kairi makes me so upset! Like, she was more of a character in the JPN version just for the ENG version to flatten her out so much. I mean, I get her voice acting for the "once we set sail" does sound sad & not actually looking forward to it, but it's difficult to pick up. Poor Kairi. I've seen people talk about her anxiety about change just for people to call them a Kairi hater for even bringing it up. It's just, really annoying.
Agreed. We lose important bits of her character.
The localization did her dirty, man 😭 She’s so much more interesting in the original JP
12:50 I noticed this for the first time with the UX translations. When I read the localization, I was always confused because MoM's explanations, as you said, were muddled, making it seem overly complicated in a way that didn't make sense. Then I'd read the english translations by blessed goldpanner; suddenly things started making sense. It felt like I could _understand_ what the heck MoM was talking about.
Wouldn't be surprised if the issues with DDD and KH3's time travel was due to muddled translations. It appears to be more obvious with the more "I know more than you" type of characters.
But, damn what a shame about Kairi. I knew it was bad, but I didn't know the localization basically made her character the stereotypical love interest and "tough girl" from the start.
@@indedgames4359 It’s fine if you personally like that kind of character archetype, but in conversations about what direction the series is going in, the localization changing how she’s characterized from the original language gives the audience false expectations of the writers’ intentions for her character arc and her role in the story.
@@indedgames4359
Oh Nomura definitely used the assumption that Kairi is Sora’s light as a red herring, because characters keep _saying_ that she’s his light, yet Riku is the one who is consistently associated with the sun, who appears as a ball of light when the KH3 tutorial recreates the KH1 opening… who Sora calls out to the first time he flies through the tunnel of light to save everyone’s hearts in KH3… who is over and over again framed in the narrative as Sora’s most important person, the one who he needs by his side in order to feel at home.
In contrast, Kairi is associated with sunset and in KH1 indicates a fondness for dark, musty places away from the sun like the Secret Place on Destiny Islands or the underground waterway in Traverse Town.
@@The_Violet_Howler Understandable, she's a ginger! Sun bad!
Jokes aside though, I get what you mean. Sora/Riku is quite similar to Zack/Cloud: One needs someone to bring them out of their shell, while the other needs stability in an ever-changing world.
And, to quote your own words, we're all free to interpret the story however we like. Unless Nomura specifies anything, all we can do is guess what his plans are based on our own individual understanding of the narrative.
@weridplusho Hello, if you can, could you provide the link to the translations of blessed goldpanner?
I feel so bad for Kairi fans. Her insecurity and fear of change make her a deeper character. Knowing this actually makes me interested in her as a character (FOR ONCE). But I guess the localization team thought that the west wouldn’t like that or something???
And this isn’t even getting into the ENG localization entirely removing Riku referring to Sora as his most important person.
In my KH interpretation, Riku is undeniably in love with Sora. The only matter of debate is whether Sora reciprocates.
Honestly, I hope KH ends with a Sora, Riku, Kairi OT3. Because why not lmao
Some of those hard transitions of narrative from game to game that feel disjointed make a lot more sense to me now. I had no idea that there were so many changes to the translations between games especially as early as the first game with the term "keyblade master" being a total misrepresentation of Sora's role in the series.
I think a really important aspect that you touched on in your video is that "accurate" doesn't always mean "direct." But that the importance should be on making sure the correct feeling, emotions, sentiments, and characterization / character moments get through. Excellent job on this!
There's a lot to be said not just on the subject of translating, but also the importance of localizing (taking translated text and making it make sense for a different culture). All sorts of things can have an affect on it; the localization team's experience, the team's familiarity with the story and characters, how much the original team is willing to share about future developments, personal biases of the team, more importantly, time constraints. And it's amazing just how much of it comes down to lack of time and, unfortunately, personal bias.
f not for Nomura stressing the importance that the message of the story needs to be translated as accurately as possible, ENG KH could've gotten away with some of its shenanigans a little more. Some people may wonder what exactly could be so important about that, and I'd like to point out pretty much anything dubbed by 4Kids (ex: Yu-Gi-Oh) versus the original content. While the general ideas more or less came across, a lot of people do agree that the story and often even the characters were completely different from the original to the dubbed version.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, but it certainly does shake up a lot about how those stories/characters are perceived as.
I know this video is a little old but it kinda hit me after rewatching this series for the billionth time:
You mention that Xehanort’s plan was to turn the world into a blank slate, where there is neither Light nor Darkness. Which is very similar to how Quadratum is described as in MelMem and Union X.
But also also, Xehanort’s wants and desire to do so is EXTREMELY similar to MoM’s (who also wanted to end the war of Light vs Darkness) but was doing his plan in a more Light based manner (“the needs of the many out weigh the few” aka “we can’t afford to get sentimental”). And we KNOW that Xehanort met MoM (which we’ll hopefully see more of in Dark Road next month), so it’s not farfetched to suggest not only did MoM encourage Xehanort to go on his journey, but also influenced Xehanort’s wants and desires to match his own.
tl;dr: Xehanort and MoM have the same goal but MoM is going about it in a selfless (Light) approach while Xehanort did his in a selfish (darkness) approach. And, like you said in episode 10, with MoM’s plans ruined maybe at the end of KH4, he (and everyone) will learn that Love (the perfect balance of Light and Darkness) is possible with the tools they have now
First
It's so unfortunate that the scene in the tunnel of light with Kairi and Sora was changed in the way that it was. It finally showed Sora and Kairi seeing each other as helpful, equal, allies, even if it was only for a split second. That line would've meant so much for Kairi in the ENG translation. It doesn't even sound romantic, it sounds selfish and like Constructing Kingdoms said, cheezy.
With the benefit of hindsight, it only really sounds romantic if you aren’t paying attention to the context of the story around it (Which I was admittedly guilty of on my first playthrough). Even if you don’t know it’s mistranslated, Sora just said a few minutes ago that he felt worthless alone. “I feel strong with you” is just saying the same thing but with a smile to distract from his own pain. Knowing that it wasn't what he said in Japanese and that it was changed at the expense of recognizing and focusing on Kairi's strength makes it even worse.
I’m just replying because I genuinely got confused because I thought I posted this. I’ve just never seen anyone else use this particular iron before. Lol
I didn’t like KH2 that much. I am doing my own take. I believe we were supposed to get a few playable kaira segments. Including Destiny island’s mainland
@@indedgames4359 I personally disagree (I think the translators fell for something that was meant to be a red herring and couldn’t comprehend the idea of a boy and a girl _not_ ending up together due to their own heteronormativity), but you’re welcome to interpret the story however you like. Unless Nomura says anything about his intentions, all we can do is guess what his plans are based on our own individual understanding of the narrative.
@@eddog6666 You're not the only one. Kairi's scene at the end of KH2 when Riku *hands her a Keyblade* feels... unearned. Rushed, like an after-thought.
I do wish there were more accessible fan translations of entries besides UX.
I would like to say that the English versions impact the other linguistic versions such as the French version
Yes, since most languages translate from english (for example german).
@@celineosthaus8032 I never thought of that before but it makes sense. Not only would translating something from English be easier than translating it from Japanese, but I also assume most places probably have more English translators than Japanese ones. Though it does suck because that means it wasn't just the EN translation wrong but that they set off an entire domino effect of making all the translations wrong.
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Thank you so much for this video. As someone who has understanding of Japanese and usually watches the cutscenes in both languages, I've always noticed the inconsistencies and weird changes that the English localization does. You pointed out the most damaging ones, that affect the story, but I also find many that hurt some dialogues and change the intended meanings of what the characters are saying or give us a different image of them.
For me personally, one of the biggest problems is Vanitas. He's one of my favorite characters so I've watched his cutscenes many times. I can't help but notice how in English they make him sound more violent and aggressive, even outright insulting other characters sometimes (like calling Ven an "idiot" when they first fight, which is not in Japanese). While he is violent and aggressive in his actions, his dialogue in Japanese makes him sound way more calm and collected, he doesn't swear or say direct insults, and he doesn't scream as much as in English. He sounds interesting and intriguing, not like an angsty teen.
The points that surprised me the most in this video, fantastic job btw, were about Kairi. I never knew in kh1 she was literally afraid if they were even going to make it...
And I knew she said she was weak in khmom, but I somehow never connected it to that being why she chose to continue training, that makes that moment of her showing agency that much more important.
Her acknowledgement of still being weak is something that is actually touched upon some more in the KH3 novels. In the second volume, Kairi says things like this in her letter (it's called Intermission (Letter II) :
"Training is going OK. Both Axel and I can make our keyblades appear right away now, and we face off against each other every day. Not only was Axel originally a member of Organization XIII, but he’s also stronger than me, so he’s teaching me a lot. Though he’ll ask me, “Got it memorized?” and I do, I’m having a hard time moving my body so readily."
So here we can see that Kairi is acknowledging that she isn't quite up to par yet and still has some weakness. She also takes note of how much Riku has changed (physically). Then she wonders if Sora has too, indicating how she feels a bit distanced from them:
"Come to think of it, how is Riku doing? Riku, he’s gotten so tall, hasn’t he. I wonder if you’ve grown too, Sora. I look forward to the day when I can reunite with you both."
In the KH3 novel, Vol. 3, it is also made clear through a novel only scene that Kairi cut her own hair. Her thought process here is rather interesting:
"Kairi looks over the new clothes, peers at herself in the mirror one more time, and then clutches a few strands of her hair.
Thinking about it now, 'Why did Riku cut his hair?'*
During her time training with Axel, her hair had a grown a bit longer.
Which would Sora like better, long hair or short hair?
Kairi takes out a pair of scissors from the draw of a desk in the corner of the room and moves the blade, staring at it for a bit. Then she moves in front of the mirror and grabs the tips of her hair.
'Hmm, would shoulder length be good?'
'I just hope I don't mess it up.'"
There's another letter that she seems to be writing too. This time it seems to be to both Sora and Riku. Once again, it shows how she feels distant from them, but also how she wants to become more involved. Her language (in the actual Japanese) is more speculative and hesitant though, usually ~kana and ~darou to show uncertainty:
"I think I'll cut my hair. A new journey is about to begin after all. Or, perhaps it's already starting.
Where are you two right now? What are you doing?
Just as you both have helped me, I think I'll set out to help you. The people you'll meet along the way, the people you've met along the way, the people who need your help. I wonder if I can be one of those people too?***
Please take care of yourself until the day we meet again.
I'm doing fine."
I know many, many people consider the novels to be non-canon, but these extra bits with Kairi makes her character arc in KH3 and KHMOM seem more complete and understandable. Like, these moments really fill in the gaps. It makes me wish that they had been included into the game via Remind or the like.
@@LilyGinnyBlack35 oh ehy, TH-cam didn't notify me on this lovely comment, thank you!! I thankfully already knew about the fantastic additions the novels do, especially the kh3 one with Kairi. The best ones has to be however the gut wrenching Vanitas secret backstory in the bbs one! Oh boy, who doesn't like physical abuse and a child vomiting out their own anguish in a Disney product??
honestly its good there are videos like these because lines in kh can be so vague to reference another important scene.
Wow your explanation of Kairi's mistranslations actually makes a lot more of the hints that I was getting about her character seem more solid while also making her more likable then I was giving her credit for.
@Inded Games There is, because that is a _theory_ , not a fact. A large percentage of the fandom _assumes_ that Sora and Kairi are the intended romance because of their own personal impressions of the story and the lack of any comment from Nomura that directly says anything one way or the other. We’re all free to interpret the narrative however we like. But until Nomura or any of the other writers say anything definitive in interviews or explicitly define Sora and Kairi’s connection as mutually romantic in the script, any claims about their intentions are just speculation based on our own individual views of the series.
dang, the vid was this long and you didn't even mention the whole "taisetsu na hito" vs "strength to protect what matters" watering down of riku's feelings! really goes to show how squareNA needs to get it together
That, to be fair, is a bit of a tough one. Saying "what matters" is much vaguer than "people important to me", but I wonder what a better translation might be that'd still fit the lip flaps (or at least timing of the line - honestly, I'd much rather have mismatched lip movement if it means better translation)
I'm not a translator (and I'm also very tired at the time I'm writing this lol) and having trouble thinking of a good wording that wouldn't sound awkward or make the voice actors have to speed read the line
@@zingodoom They translated the same phrase two other times as the person Hercules/Elsa loves, when it's a direct parallel. Not to mention, don't they re-record the lip syncing for the en version?
I have this issue with the manga; when I read them I compare all three translations (tokyopop, yenpress, and the aku-tenshi fan translation) and the differences are wild sometimes
SENA top manager: "It is necessary to eliminate any reference to religion."
SENA employee: "But the foretellers have the names of the 7 deadly sins, how do we get around that?"
SENA top manager: "Ah don't worry, the US don't know Latin."
SENA employee: "There remains the problem of the Ark."
SENA top manager: "Just call it a Lifeboat and we've solved it."
All kidding aside, great video as always Howler. You've made the localization and translation issues clear. The truth is that these poor translators/adapters aren't given much time to do their best work, often don't know the previous installments at all, and get paid very little.
That's why it's right to point out these inconsistencies, SENA must realize what they are doing.
Plus they want the translation to match the lip movements to avoid breaking immersion, which can muddle things up if you don't do it right.
Holy hell, I did NOT realize so many of the issues western audiences have with the story can be chalked up (at least partially) to incorrect localization.
The way I rolled my eyes at "I feel strong with you, Kairi" just to finally find out that's not what he should be saying is MADDENING.
I knew there was something off about Kairi. So it was the localization after all. There were a lot more than I expected too. I knew about Riku in KHI and Xehanort in KHIII but the one with Roxas makes it sound like he either calls the keyblade a he, which is ridiculous, or he’s cursing God for favoring Sora, which is admittedly a big stretch.
Honestly cursing god for favouring someone else while he suffers is something I really wouldn't it put past Roxas to do lmao. big Lucifer energy, fallen angel style
More like he is realizing, because he is in Sora's Heart, that Riku's Light (a Meta Angel) chose Sora. (Because of Love). And the Book of Prophecies is about them, So God/Destiny, yes.
@@Fragmentsinfractals488 I think that is a bit of a stretch. After all, why would he care if Riku chose Sora over him? He doesn't know Riku. So why get all, "Why did he choose you?!" as if it is some personal betrayal? The original translation where he is referring to the keyblade makes the most sense.
I imagine the scene where Kairi confronts the illusory Xehanort was done so that she didn’t appear too weak as a response to how people reacted with 3.
I just realized Roxas's "Tell me why he picked you" still works, you just have to think about it harder. Sora was unchosen Chosen. And Riku unconsciously pick him. That is what the palm up, hand out gesture is. It is the "offer to connect Hearts". The become One gesture. Riku also does this unconsciously when he becomes a Dream Eater. So, Sora was chosen because Riku's Heart picked him.
It is also implied Roxas recognizes the Child of Destiny properties Sora and Riku have when he sees Sora's stained glass (Sora's Heart). Roxas just doesn't know how to articulate that.
I also just figured out the "Tell me why he picked you" leads from "Riku? I defeated a Riku once...." with insinuation that Riku is the "He". Then, this fight is basically Roxas testing to see if Riku was correct in his unconscious belief in Sora. When Sora wins, Roxas confirms his belief in Sora to "Axel", too, and gives himself to Sora.
Yeah the majority of interpretations you'll see of that line from english fans are that "he" means either Riku, bc of the previous dialogue, or Axel, bc of his death minutes prior that prompted Roxas to come forth and attack Sora in the first place. "Tell me why he picked you" to live and continue existing in the waking world, instead of picking Roxas. Like he's asking why he isn't just as entitled to his own existence, why is Sora so much more special and he isn't. And then he sees all the images of people in Sora's heart station, all the friends in his heart, all the connections he has to so many other people, and realises that it Has to be Sora.
Buuuuut turns out he was talking about Sora's keyblade all along lol. The reason is the same though so hey
honestly, this makes me want to go through the entire series again with the japanese version, translated by someone other than square enix. i feel like i’d understand the story of the series much better than what the official English translation gives us.
i found the first episode a week ago and ive been looking forward to this one! its fantastic. it really shines a light on scenes that seemed off without me being able to put my finger on why. thank you for uploading and i am hoping these next two weeks fly by 🤩
I NEVER knew any of this, Holy crap your opening my eyes to a whole knew part of my favorite game series.
I had no idea that the localization had actually CHANGED FACIAL EXPRESSIONS AND ANIMATIONS
The claim it was only ever for the lip flaps is bogus. I can’t believe they actually toned down Eraqus’s smile in the final scene with Xehanort. THATS LITERALLY THE CONCLUSION OF BOTH OF THEIR ARCS!!!
And holy hell does this explain a lot of plot holes. The “blank canvas” motivation of Xehanort makes SO MUCH MORE SENSE.
Wtf, localization team 😭😭😭
Just discovered this channel - excellent work on these first two videos, I'm looking forward to the next ones!
The thing with Xehanort's final speech is not per se the mistranslation but more that the translation used a metaphor for what he said. In a series where the concepts of light and darkness are the main plot points and are constanly being discussed and talked about by the characters, you can't make a metaphor with these plot points. It leads to confussing because the audience thinks that what the character said as a metaphor is to be taken at face value.
Really interesting video! Something I’ve always though might be a translation error is how in KH1 the characters make destiny island sound like the only island, obviously from context clues like the boats and there being no possible place for Sora’s house to be there you know this isn’t true but it always seemed a little confusing (though I can see where that error originated from, since you can’t see another island from anywhere on destiny islands in KH1)
I just realized that "The Keyblade Master" could be read as "The X-blade Master" and the Child of Destiny will probably wielded it. The Truth is what you see. The Kingdom Key in Two is part of The X Blade that "opens the Door and changes the World." (Riku and Sora)
Wow, this is a fantastic analysis. Would wanting the Japanese version of KH with English subs circumvent this issue? Or am I stuck with watching the English version and then an analysis video pointing out the mistakes?
I wish this video were not necessary, but I thank you for opening my eyes. The issue of translations is so much worse than I thought it was...
dude these videos are so articulate and wonderful so far! its amazing to see someone talk about the importance of accurate translation :D
This is really interesting, I'd never really looked much into the JP versions story and didn't realise so much had changed. Subbed, would love to see more stuff like this as a deep dive
what an absolutely important video, thank you so much for making it!
i wish this would've gone viral instead of that dream realm theory thing, honestly. i feel like the fandom would've been a better place if it did since it explains so many bizarre lines, specially from kairi.
I mean, the dream realm theory mentioned and included a lot of these mistranslations corrections as well, but it's true that this vid specifically centered on em would make a lot of good, yeah
I really appreciate the time and effort you've put into this series! It's a breath of fresh air to see actual analysis of the story that's taking fact, text, and subtext into consideration when talking about the characters and plot of the games
Really wish they'd properly re-translate Kingdom Hearts honestly, but with how large of a franchise it is by now, this would either have to be in increments, or would be forced all at once at a large cost that I don't think anyone would be on board with. It's just too bad, because the mistranslation actively undermines the story, themes and characters.
They could put on accurate subtitles when putting on the japanese version or something, that would not be as great a cost and the fans would appreciate it
This video series changed my view on kingdom hearts and really expanded my horizons of my understanding of this game. Thank you for making such in depth and insightful essays on the hidden but vital elements of the games! I would like to know, is there any way of checking out their original Japanese scripts that you know of? If so is there a version where they happen to have been more literally translated to English like the Union X fan subs? If not, that’s ok. I’m just being a lazy ass for not understanding Japanese myself ^w^;
Thank you so much for this video. I really enjoyed the comparison between the correct japanese skript and the mistranslated english version, since it was really hard to find this information on the internet by myself!!! ❤🧡💛💚💙💜
Oooh, I didn't know about some of these mistranslations! :0 very interesting
The Noah's arc thing is probably not really at all the translators fault, America is extremely touchy about Religious references, and so if something isn't targeted at an older audience, they kinda have to take out any religious references that aren't literal Christianity happening in a story
1st observation: Huh. So I suppose the better translation, given the context of the Japanese dialogue, would have been for him to say something like "a clean slate" rather than "pure and bright", since that's what he's actually describing.
2nd observation: Yeah, that scene would have been so much better if they had Riku lift Sora up rather than reject his pain like that.
3rd observation: Of course the shippers and pseudo-feminists have to step in and ruin a good female character. *pout*
4th observation: Ah yes. We can't make the blatant Biblical references in a video game. That would be *gasp* offensive to radical conservatives who probably won't play the game anyway!
5th observation: Okay, that last one with the Master of Masters is just plain funny as a screw up. No less frustrating, but one that's easier to poke fun at. Kind of like the infamous "I am Error" line from Legend of Zelda.
I can only speculate that the reason for some of these localization changes is because they want to keep it kid friendly.
But the whole point of why this series ended up being darker in the first place is because they wanted to avoid seeming kid-friendly.
It's a real shame that these localizers seem to want to avoid making these games Seem more mature than they really are, showing that they completely misunderstand their audience.
It's like four kids, although not nearly as bad.
One of Xemnas's battle quotes is "We shall go together" isn't it? Riku and Xemnas are both vessels for Xehanort, and that scene in Dream Drop where Riku flashes over Young Xehanort leads to Sora almost becoming one so that makes sense.
You are a fucking saint. Thank you so much for this it’s so Important I hope this video gets more attention. I’m so glad this video appeared on my fyp.
I remember a huge google document coming out a few months after KH3's release and a part that sticks out to me is how the English translators basically really didn't like how open Sora & Riku's relationship is, e.g. in the frozen world when Sora is comparing Riku to Elsa he literally says he loves in, in Japanese they have a bunch of different words to describe love, like you love your friends or family members is different from romantically saying "I love you" but in our English western world we can say "I love you" to basically anyone, friends, family, partners or something else. As you also brought up, they also rewrote Riku's last words to Sora so you can't compare him with Kairi and made Sora's scene with Kairi way more romantic then originally written.
This isn't my shipping side talking, I'm just sad apparently a dude can't say he loves his guy friends or even being positive him while he's grieving and also be just friends with a girl.
Normalize saying love you to your homies
and you know if he says he loves him, that means he sees him as his signifigant other
Got a link to the Google document?
Man I love being a English only speaker who likes a Japanese thing that getting everything wrong in it's Translations. It makes it feel like I've been in love with this whole damn thing for the wrong reason now.
To give credit where it’s due, the translators for KH generally do a decent job of accurately conveying the meaning of what they’re translating most of the time.
It’s just that the moments when they don’t can result in audiences getting a different impression of a scene or story element than what the original writers actually intended.
A little before 4:18 that makes me curious about a hypothetical AU. Marluxia wasn't after power for its own sake, by your words. What if, instead of using Namine to manipulate Sora, Marluxia was instead upfront about his coup to Sora, and offered him transport across the worlds in exchange for his help?
Thank you for bringing attention to this. I had no idea it was this bad.
It’s not that the localization is bad per se. While the focus of this video is on the negatives, for the most part the English versions of KH honestly does a decent job of conveying everything. But from a literary analysis perspective it’s important to recognize that the translators are not perfect and that people shouldn’t just take the versions in languages other than the original at face value as always 100% accurate. Because even when the translation conveys the right ideas, there can still sometimes be subtext, symbolism, or other nuances contained within the word choice used in the original language that don’t translate well. Which are valuable to know when analyzing the story to determine those original writers’ intentions for the story.
Go off King 👑
Wow... I already knew that the translation isn't completely accurate, but that it is this bad... even changing facial expressions? Really!? Why are they doing that? ... I wish I could speak japanese... maybe I'll learn it and play every single game again, this time in japanese.
man this kind of stuff makes me sick... the amount of disrespect to fans and the art. But thank you, you made me reealize something big about xehanorts plan and ill be using that in my future video :)
"You don't believe that. I know you don't" is something we tell others when we want them to see their belief was wrong, poorly thought out, or reached under the wrong circumstances. It doesn't literally mean "you don't believe this". Riku was expressing support, same as the JP version, just in a way that wouldn't read as cheesy for English audiences.
Not gonna lie, most of your complaints are a matter of good localisation being treated as more important than directly exact translation. It doesn't help that they're ptesented as a petty rant
If I had to make this video over again, I would definitely redo the audio a few times to make sure my frustration with how some fans on twitter and tumblr put the localization team on a pedestal doesn’t come through so much in my performance, so that it sounds more professional and less like a rant.
But my point in this video is that things like “insight into Marluxia’s motivations being thrown out in favor of him speculating about Axel's even though it contradicts his own characterization” or “changing Sora’s recognition of Kairi’s strength in KH3 to be about how she makes HIM feel strong” are NOT good localization.
One of the easiest ways to identify patterns and recurring ideas in a story, particularly one that builds up over multiple installments like KH does, is through using repeated phrases of dialogue as a way to signal to the audience that there’s a connection between certain characters/scenes/events.
When a line or word is localized in two different ways in two different scenes to convey two different ideas that were meant to be the same, it becomes much easier for more casual fans to miss those narrative connections.
To use the same example you brought up, I will grant that “You don’t believe that, I know you don’t” might convey Riku expressing support for Sora. However the English line loses its oomph because it’s meant to be part of a specific pattern of Riku expressing that HE believes in Sora. So while the localized line is fine by itself, when placed into the larger pattern it’s like a band playing every few notes of a song off-key.
The whole reason I made this video is because I've seen too many people in the KH fanbase act like the localization is perfect as is, and always correctly reflects the developers’ original intent 100% of the time, and that the localization team is above criticism... But just because the localization is good most of the time doesn’t mean that it’s good ALL of the time, and I wanted to have a single video explaining why theories/analysis shouldn’t take it for granted that every change the localization team made is a good one so that I wouldn’t write out a whole essay to respond whenever I mention the original meaning of a line in the JP version and someone in the comments tries to argue that the difference between the versions don't matter.
i feel betrayed
Is there a place where I can find all of the Translation errors cause Id love to see Kairi's, Namine and Xion's real dialogue
Very good video
The international translators need to get it together like just translate the game directly and leave it at that please.
To be fair, I think KH is kinda different from the usual video game franchise. In order to do truly proper translations of the game, you *need* to know the lore behind it really well, since all of the games are very interconnected. That's something you usually find with a TV series, book series, or movie franchise rather than with video games. It would be nice though, if going forward, SENA got translators for future KH games that are fully aware of and fully understand the pre-established lore of the series and would be able to spot callbacks and etc.
Also, translating a game directly...is not a good thing to do. The issues with these translations aren't that they are loose translations, but that they are failing to capture the right nuances, call backs, and etc. A translation becoming direct will result in really unnatural and stilted dialogue, which isn't a good thing. Basically, the ideal here is to maintain loose translations that still highlight character moments properly and maintain the proper feelings, emotions, sentiments, and lore of the characters and series as a whole.
The examples given about Kairi aren't the only mistranslations about her, right? Seeing a less confident Kairi, acknowledging her lack of strength and try to become a better version of herself sounds like a great idea to me! And I find Sora complimenting her wholesome.
But, seeing an overconfident character getting beaten by the script makes me take them less seriously and see them as comic relief at worst.
I would love to compare the official translations, i wish i knew japanese.
Honestly, in my opinion, Kingdom Hearts needs a rewrite from the ground up with most of the localization team fired.
I guess it's time to look up the raw translations of the scripts so I can more accurately yell about these games and characters. Augh
Good job ^^ It's a shame that SENA tends to fck up the localisation for kh since it shapes the way westerners perceive the series and nomura.
Also it sucks what they've done to kairi (she doesnt have to be a Tough Girl! Sora doesnt know what love is!). After reading the tumblr essay on Pooh's Grand Adventure (and watching the film), i have the feeling sora's jp line might be brought up again.
Oh and have you read the character files (both the official eng and jp)?? It sounds like the eng version should've spent more time making the content sound better and simpler lol
Is there a way to watch all the cutscenes of the series with those most 1 to 1 translation possible or better yet a way for english fans to play rhe game english sub with good subtitles modded in. If not that's something that would be fantastic for this fandom i think.
unfortunately to my knowledge there aren't any mods for something like that. At least, not that I or any of my friends have heard of. But it's definitely a really cool idea!
Unfortunately you'll have to learn Japanese lol
Riku is also gayer in the Japanese than the English, and Sora and Kairi's relationship is more platonic.
did they ruin any Axel lines?
I can't remember any off the top of my head but i'm sure there's probably at least a couple somewhere in the series that didn't get translated right
@@The_Violet_Howler those fiends
While you did make some interesting (and definitely valid in some cases) points, I do wholeheartedly disagree with a lot of what you said here.
Keep in mind that a localization team's job is not to literally directly translate everything 1:1 in the Japanese script.
I originally wrote out a longer comment here, but it's clear that you put a lot of effort into this video.
Keep it up. Even if I disagree, seeing passionate Kingdom Hearts fans making content is really awesome. :)
I'm curious on what points you disagree with him.
I dont ship Sora with Riku b/c i hate Kairi, i ship him with Riku cuz hes not good enough for Kairi!!! Everytime she interacts with him feels like its all about him >:(
This is an interesting video but man relax the rage is alot
15:10 How do I go about doing that?
If you know any Japanese yourself, your best bet is one of those online Japanese translation sites using fan translation blogs, online transcripts of the game, or even listening and writing it down yourself to get the text to plug into the translation site.
@@The_Violet_Howler I don't...
Wait, so is kingdom Hearts a Japanese take on the Bible- with Sora being JESUS?
GO DISNEY JESUS- SHOW HOW DISNEY SHOULD BE!