We made a HUGE Beekeeping Mistake!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- After finding out the news, I really had to wait almost 5 days before I filmed this video. It really bothered me that this happened. Even more so, that I feel like it was totally my fault. It would be one thing to find your bees dead in the middle of winter, but just 2 weeks ago there were all alive and quite feisty!
One thing I didn't really cover in this video, is how many dead bees I found on the ground in front of the hive, and inside the bottom of the brood chambers. This is what makes me think they died, but there's a chance I suppose, that they just absconded. If you have any thoughts on this, please share them down in the comments below.
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If you have any other thoughts, on what you think we did wrong, please share them in the comments below. One thing I did not really cover in the video, is how many dead bees there were on the ground, and in the bottom of the boxes. Which makes me think, they didn't abscond... but then again, maybe they did. Share your thoughts please. If you want to see more "BEE" videos from us, here's a link to our playlist: th-cam.com/video/uG0jQun1dcY/w-d-xo.html
That 1870's Homestead sorry about the loss. I think the timing on quilt boards is easy misjudge. The optimism of Spring. I am in Colorado and keep on until end of May. Our weather is nuts. Good luck catching a swarm this year.
I don’t think I would have switched the bottom to the top you could have stacked both hives on top of each other to build your bees up or to make your hives stronger
I’d say the dead bees on the outside was from the remaining bees in the hive cleaning/moving them out….usually it’s a much farther distance but they were being depleted to extension….no bees-no heat….
You are spot on sir. They starved. The one thing people don't anticipate when getting through their first winter as new beekeepers is, March and April is the time in which the hive consumes the most honey to ramp up for spring. It is the most critical time of hive health. I'm not familiar with your climate, but the very FIRST day that hits the low 40's you need to check their supply. All you have to do is try and lift the hive and get a good guess as to how heavy it is. You can get so much information from just that one thing, without even getting into them. As soon as you see flight. Do a bee count check. If you have a large amount of bees, time for feed. If the top box still feels heavy, I can guarantee they will need feed within 2-4 weeks after the temps getting to 40. It is the most critical time to check them on a weekly if not biweekly schedule. All you need to do is every 3-4 days check the weight of the top brood box. I promise you will feel a change in it's weight. It is the best way to check on them without chilling the brood from opening the hive up. Wish you the best of luck next go round.
@precognative maiden Wrong.
Black Label Homestead yep I agree
Yup, starvation. You have to really keep an eye on their food supply at all times. Obviously, more so in fall and spring. Spring is actually when most bees starve. On a bright note, you have an awesome supply of drawn comb to get a huge jump on your next hive. Good luck brother.
So sorry to hear that. It's very easy and tempting to take honey in the fall. Something we also will be more aware of for ourselves. Out of our 6 hives, 2 died of starvation this March. Really sad :( Our first year of beekeeping, we got over 800 lbs of honey from TWO hives! Unbelievable!! God just blessed us and answered our prayers! We are looking forward to this year's honey harvest. All the best with your swarm traps!
We are hopeful that we catch a swarm. 80lbs if honey is alot!!
😩🐝🐝🐝😢It’s very clear that you have a tender heart for your bees. I encourage you to keep growing and learning so these little lives didn’t die needlessly... You will be the best bee papa around after learning from them! God bless❤️🕊❤️
Sorry about your loss. 3rd Year Beekeeper from Niagara, Ontario, east of you. Don’t beat yourself up about the loss. Can happen to any of us. My humble 2 cents worth: likely too early removal of the Vivaldi and sugar feed (candy boards). I think you were doing all the right things. I do the same things...mine came off about same time as yours. We might be just a bit warmer?. I suspect it was just a bit too cool for the bees to take the sugar water feed with your hive top feeders. As you suggest, starvation is one key factor. I still have my quilt boards on. One different thing I do is use wraps-over the winter (at least I did not hear you mention them). They are called “Wellington wraps” made from plastic cardboard material like political signs. Black inn colour. Keeps out wind well, and allows for some thermal heating in winter. Might help the bees conserve some energy/reserves over the winter. While I did a Varroa treatment in August using MAQs, i also did 2 Oxalic acid treatments late in October. Even though I treated in August prior to development of winter bees, I still found a huge mite drop in October/early Nov. I attribute that last action as a key action to allow all of my 5 hives to survive the winter. I found a great low cost Oxalic acid vaporizer called “Easy Vap” that works in a manner similar to Provap 110, but for about $150US made by Johno Oliver. Check it out. Good luck wth swarm traps. I have about a dozen out. 2 of my best hives are feral bees caught in swarm traps. I like your idea of burning the insides. My traps are about 40 L volume, some are old deeps, and others are taller 5 frame models, also 40 L. I did add propolis and wax to the insides of them this year to increase their attractiveness to bees.
I've had this happen a couple of times in the past and a hard lesson to learn at times. I've moved to NC now and the climate here is much more favorable to bees all year around. You need to watch for the time at the end of the year when there is no food flowing but the bees are still active.
As you were opening the first box it looked to me like a starve out. Many beekeepers like to let 60 to 100 pounds of honey on the hive for winter.
I too have made that mistake in the past. If you take honey be sure to feed a lot of 2 to 1 sugar water before weather gets cold so they have the equivalent of 60 to 100 pounds of stores. Rick in Pa.
The old timers would put their bees into an underground bee cellar for the winter months and never took a honey harvest the first year, that's how they determined how much to harvest from the second year and on. Also, they located the hives under the apple trees (it was a commercial apple farm) for the shade. Domesticated bees apparently need even temperatures all year. The free, online, Gutenberg Library published bee manuals also, lots more good info there. Hope this is helpful.
That's interesting thank you for sharing
Brown's Bees and Beef has the best video on swarm traps, also there is a guy called "Dr Leo" who is from Russia but living in America who talks about swarm traps and what size they should be, etc.. Sorry to hear about the loss of your hives, a friend had six and is down to two.
Hello, first, I'm sorry if I make mistakes but I'm not a native English speaker (I'm living in Belgium, a very small country above France).
I also suspect starvation but with something unusual.
When a colony starves, you find a lot of dead bees down in the box (the tongue pulled) and others, dead, the head inside the cells.
In your case, the boxes were empty.
There is a quite unknown explanation : if bees experience a long term lack of food, they wish to leave but have not enough food to sustain their journey and die. When you fed them two weeks before, you gave them what they needed : enough fuel to go away.
This explains why you have nothing left in both boxes. As I told before, in most cases starvation = the whole colony dead on the floor.
Keep in mind that, depending on the race, bees need to store between 15 and 20 kg (33 to 44 pounds ?) of honey to survive until fruit trees bloom (april).
I suggest you give them back a part of what you take from them next time. Their honey is much better for their health than suggar.
And keep doing the treatment against varroa mite, this is the N°1 reason for CCD.
Stick to beeking, you seem to love bees and it's a real pleasure to watch them fly and live.
According to my experience, you need at least 3 seasons to do things approximately right ;)
hi fred. what did you mean by "when you feed them 2weeks before..."?
I agree with Fred, they absconded rather than died. The sugar feed was enough for them to find somewhere else to live. If they starved there would be a LOT of dead bees in the box.
So sorry to hear your bees are gone, Todd and Rachel. I don't know much about bees but there are plenty of people on TH-cam that do. I like watching Jeff Horchoff Bees and Backyard Bees. Maybe you could reach out to one of them to see if they know what happened. Or even a local apiary might have some thoughts that pertain more to your geographic area. Good luck 👍
What did you use for treatment and when?
I start treatment for mites in the late summer here in N.C. This treatment is aimed to get healthy winter bees that will be raised .
OA four times every 5 days. I repeat every month til late august early September where I switch to Apivar which is a month treatment.
I also start feeding sugar water with an boardman feeder. I like those things because I can see how much the bees consume. When it gets to cold the bees can not get to the feeder which I think is good because of the extra moisture that the sugar syrup may put into the hive. Remember that the syrup is just a supplement and not the main food. I also put sugar cakes in the hive which is just sugar mixed with a few drops of water that hardens when it gets dry. Remove your queen excluder in the winter so the queen can move around when the bees move to a warmer spot, so the queen will not be left behind. You may need to condense the bees by removing an extra box.
My first few years my hives died over winter, The first year it was mites and starvation and the second year it was strictly mites . The bottom board was filled with dead bees and mites.
It may have been starvation (who knows), but if a hive dies, then robber bees will take the opportunity to take the leftover resources and clean the frames out.
I'm not a bee keeper but I'm looking into keeping bees myself, this is an idea on little knowledge but I would double up your brood boxes so you have twice as much storage and breed area for the bees and definitely feed until both boxes are well established .. I highly doubt the cold affected your bees to abscond but if In doubt you can insulate the hive too using foam sheets like celotex or kingspan.. hope to see a successful recovery and busy hive in your next videos.. God bless
Don't get discouraged, it happens. 2017/2018 we went into winter with 10 hives, came out with 1, 2018/2019 into winter with 5, still have 2 as of now. This is the critical time for starving now that it is warming up and they are becoming more active. Swarms or NUCs are the way to go, I've never had any luck with packages. The more "local" the bees and queen, the better luck you should have.
Sorry for your loss. I'm not a bee keeper, but I absorb lots of bee info. I find it interesting that, out of all the creatures people keep as food producing livestock, bees are the only critters allowed to leave the homestead to go out into the world and forage on their own. Keepers trust that the bees will safely return to the hive by sunset. Mankind has managed to domesticate chickens, ducks, rabbits, pigs, cows, goats, and sheep, but bees remain more or less wild. If they find the local living conditions unacceptable, they can just fly away. Even so, mankind has had a successful relationship with bees for hundreds of years. I hope you can capture a local swarm!
Quite an interesting take on things. Our laying chickens are in a pen, our meat chickens are in a chicken tractor, and goats in a paddock. Yet bees, very much the true meaning of free-range. Thank you for the thoughtful response.
I tend to agree with you. The strength of your bees on the fall is critical to make sure you have strong winter bees.
its important when you get new bees, and your in the spring time when there are food resources outside, to not give them pollen. They could use that inside of foraging and it brings troubles.
So sorry about your bees! I get sad when I see even drones dead. Maybe robbing occurred. You said you had a lot of bees going crazy the last time you checked you had to wear your suit. Maybe robbing was going on. Strange bees could invade a weak hive and kill your whole hive in no time.
Start feeding when food becomes scarce around end of August-Sept. Never pull honey after Sept. They need all they can. Especially first year bees. And check the hives regularly every couple weeks to detect problems. Hope you have better luck next time. Again, so sorry that happened to you guys!
A queenless hive usually is more aggressive.
Oh, and another thing that someone else mentioned is to burn the inside of the box, this is supposed to simulate the inside of a burnt hollow tree. Neither Brown or Dr Leo mention this but it is worth considering.
Oh no! I've been working through your beekeeping playlist and thought you had it sorted.
If they starved, you'd see dead bees head-first into the cell so I'm not convinced that was the problem. It's very unusual to see no food stores at all though. Often, they just move an inch or two away from the food to stay in cluster and can't move back to it in the cold.
If the queen had died, they'd have tried to generate a new one from an egg/larva (at least if they're able).
The thing that puzzles me is that you said you'd seen lots of bees in both hives 3 weeks previously. Were they residents or robbers? If they zig-zag from side to side at the entrance as if trying to evade defenders they weren't residents. They were robbers from another colony. Another tell-tale sign is the state of the comb. Robbers tend to leave it a mess but your's looked nice and clean. There were no ragged edges to the cells.
I'm not exactly sure what the problem was actually. What did they weigh going into winter? I feed mine until I can't heft (lift) a corner. They feel like they're welded to the ground.
It's a pity this happened but, at least, you have drawn comb and should attract a swarm easily.
I know I'm playing "catch-up" watching these a while after the event but I'm keen to see how things turned out for you.
My thoughts…..were there dead bees in the box…..were there any honey in the box…..was there signs of moisture….
If there was a good supply of bees-food-and no moisture issue….the bees can withstand any amount of cold weather…
I typically check the weight of my over-winter-hives….not by scale….only by lifting up the back of the boxes….make sure they fill like 60 lb or more
Make your mite treatments late in the year….I try to do my last one in November….when there’s hardly any brood going on…
I have 50-hives….and usually lose 5-6 each winter….usually I can tell my population was too low….and unless I made a split too late for them to populate….I can always see food stores….that means -I had mite issues…
I saw one video about making the bee hives out of thicker wood so they can stay warmer. In Il. this may be an idea. Have you ever heard of horizontal hives. I was watching Stacy and Doug. There was a man named Dr Leo. He seemed so smart
These things happen, we need to leave our bees well enough alone. The bees know best and they migrate through the hive for food, however we should be ready to intervene when needed. Look on the bright side with this learning experience, you have some nice comb for your new bees and the queen to lay in straight away.
yep...with our hives in easter pa. 2 strong hives with lots of honey did not make the last stretch of winter. weird thing though no sign of a queen in either of them, no eggs or brood. hmmm...they were very strong hives overwintered last year just fine.
Possibility since you rotated the boxes that robbing could have happened. The hive is totally empty of everything!
I didn't see any dead bees, this reminds me of when they just leave and robbed out. Most of the time you'll have a dead cluster and bees in the comb when you starve them. See local beekepers and ask for information it will help
The bottoms of the boxes were a couple inches deep with dead. I dumped most of them out in the grass before filming. Many of the frames were all filled with dead bees, with their heads buried in the cells - some frames with 75+ like that. I will keep seeking advice, and will keep learning & growing.
Your a good man, stay on the path of bees they will teach you alot, mostly patients and respect (upset them and they will make you pay lol)
That 1870's Homestead That is such a horrible experience! I would be devastated too. But unfortunately we all learn from our failures. We had four boxes full of honey in our hives, included the brood box. We took five frames of honey back in September and left them with three boxes full. Two weeks ago they had consumed almost a box full. We feed them heavily now with honey water and pollen. We are in SC so the weather in winter is warm enough but we still worry about them.
Try again. I’m sure you will do fine. The more we experience the better we become.
Doing much better this year. My two strong hives, I feel really good about. Didn't take any honey at all this year.
@@1870s
The last two winters I lost all my bees because of starvation and mites before December came around.
This year is the first year where I got all my 5 hives past new year and they are all doing good except one the way it looks.
I started to feed all of them mountain camp style sugar and little pollen 2 weeks ago.
I treated for mites with apivar from mid october to mid november and I will start with OA this week.
Looks so much better so far this winter than the two winters before that. I even put some entrance feeder, which they really consume very very little of it, so moister is not much of a problem.
No upper/brood box entrances may have done it too. Many bees may have starved and blocked the lower entrance.
That is such a bummer. Many lessons learned in your first year though. Hopefully the next try goes a lot better
Local nucs from reputable beekeepers might be a good way to go. That is how I got started and I think established nucs are a great way to get a head start. Of course swarms can also be awesome. I have never tried packages.
brucesbees we got two packages last March and they are doing really great! Both very strong hives. Nucs are a great way too
So sorry to hear about your bees. Hope all is well otherwise. Super busy here @ZiegenVineHomestead.... not sure if we mentioned to you - We became certified foster parents!!! Why? Because we felt the calling to make a difference in at least one childs life. Hopefully we will get around to making some videos while I am off work for 2 months.
How exciting! Any child would be lucky to have you and Randy as foster parents!
Try natural beekeeping. I don't use pollen patties, not use chemicals of any kind and my bee thrive
sorry to hear, and I wish you the best. I am a firm believer in not treating for anything and only feeding from February to April, and then from Oct to nov.
I had a couple of questions before I can comment of the “perhaps why”. I just wanted to make sure I heard you correctly .... did you say that you rotated the boxes bottom (1st level) to the top and 2nd level to the bottom ?? If so, how many frames of bees were there in the second level BEFORE you roadster it to the bottom ?? Specifically when you looked at the second level before shifting it down to the bottom how many of the spaces between the frames were filled with bees ?? I ask bc you were so understandably upset that you did show or describe all the minor details ... which may be a significant clue(s) to understanding what happened. EG were there honey stores in that second level (that you switched out to become the first ?
Please let me know as I am curious as to why this happened. Thank you
Brett
Is there any chance that a neighbor sprayed a yard or field nearby for "pests"?
Just a back yard bee keeper here.
Considering a single brood chamber colony. I got this idea from UoG Honey Bee Resea... Wishing you well with your next colony. ✌
I watch quite a few videos I'm single brood chamber. It does seem promising.
I am so sorry! that does look like starving. When you find dead ones with heads in the comb thats a classic sign... I hope for better luck next time. I lost my first two in the fall during derth because i didn't feed... lesson learned.
I every year, I learn another lesson or two. By the time I'm gone I'll be an expert 😀 Best we can do is learn not only from out mistakes, but others as well - that's why we share these types of things.
I every year, I learn another lesson or two. By the time I'm gone I'll be an expert 😀 Best we can do is learn not only from out mistakes, but others as well - that's why we share these types of things.
I every year, I learn another lesson or two. By the time I'm gone I'll be an expert 😀 Best we can do is learn not only from out mistakes, but others as well - that's why we share these types of things.
Interesting. I'm up in Canada and use single brood box management . We take all the honey but we don't touch anything in the brood box. Once the supers are off and the queen pulls back on egg laying we offer a bit of 2-1 Then when she shuts down laying we have pails of syrup on the hive itself to allow them to rapidly back fill and cap the entire box. I don't even go in and check to see how much they have. I go by the weight of the box and want it at about 90lb. Just before I put them in the winter shed I throw some pollen patties on top just in case. No winter feeding. They came out of the shed march19th, so 4 months 19 days. After a few days cleansing flight I quickly went in. Each hive had frames of honey left. I scraped the bottom boards discarded any old patties added new, offered them some 2-1 open feed syrup an open feed dry supplement. If any had been short of honey I would have offered a pail of 2-1 on the hive
I find it interesting that folks farther south are using multi box management, feeding in the winter and still suffering starve outs. My bees used a bit over a frame and a half of honey per month. A hive with 7 full frames of bees had 2 1/2 frames of honey left. Each hive was as economical.
I like using weight to asses hives and single box management. In the shed or in the field it's easy to go out and just lift the box without opening it to asses remaining stores. Brood and empty comb don't weigh much. If the box is heavy you know if the box is light you know and can act. I also love indoor wintering. Takes all the weather extremes out of the equation. Bees are at +4 C day and night only the humidity is variable but even that change is dampered.
Maybe robber bees came and cleaned them out.
It's possible, they were REALLY wiped out.
Thanks for sharing
Heard a few had hives like yours except 1 had food that was Doug and Stacy there hive was really active just like yours bam gone they just a video out but anyway , at least you have the ideal what you did so it will help on next hive of bee's you both have awesome week God bless you both and your family
Love Doug and Stacy's top bar hive, very nice
So sorry for your bee loss :(
There is a reason the old timers called early spring the starving time.
That sucks! I don’t have much input, I had 2 hives starve, well, I think one starved, and one absconded. Sounds like maybe they needed a bit of pollen earlier in the late winter?
Earlier definitely would have been better for sure.
I’m far from an expert, but my understanding is that the adult bees eat the honey, and the pollen is used to feed the developing brood. Not sure if that’s accurate, but I THINK it is???
put out as much swarm traps as you can as soon as you can..like fishing.
Sorry to hear i lost all3 hives this year, so i got 4 more and we go again cheers go get another 2 and move on
Did you feed protein patties? If so when? How many bees at the bottom of your hives?
That was a few years ago, so I don't remember all the timing / details. Sorry.
The best beekeepers lose bees. Sadly I am not a best beekeeper. I learn something new each season.
For me, that's part of the fun of beekeeping - the never ending process of learning.
Moister build up you need vent holes get rid quilt board in August pull honey drill 3/4 vent holes
We put the Patty's on our boxes once and they died or left the same way
good luck
my friend had the same problems. and his bee's starved to death. it was raining too much an he neglected them just couple of weeks. and he lost them.
Thanks, so far no bees in sight other than bumble bee
This has nothing to do with the problem but i heard the other day from a long time bee keeper not to put sugar water in fpr them! Something about the bees depending on that too much and fail to go out searching for pollen! I'm not a bee keeper i just know what this guy was saying!😁
A while into this, I swapped sugar water feeders for pollen patties. They are enjoying them much more.
Did you have a queen when you checked them 3 weeks ago?
Another thing: I never liked those patties:( ... we have been making our own.
I've been interested pollen feeder boxes lately. I'm going to have to do bit more research first thought.
3 Weeks ago when I added food, I was nervous about causing too much disturbance to the bees at the time, so I did not pull any frames. My suspicion though, is that she was already gone by then. Like I said, I don't think the starvation was in the last week or so, I think it was late Feb - end of March when thing got grim.
@@1870s it does look like queen was not laying when you first opened. You have no brood... They were slowly dying off:( Always check for queen and day old eggs, this is the key for the future of the hive. Also I think leaving the bees on 2 brood boxes into the winter is not always optimal, but also depends where territorial you are, down south is ok if your bees are strong, large , they will be able to heat them selves on both floors. Don't give up on bees, I hope you will catch a swarm this spring! With keeping bees you never stop learning:) Best to you!
How ever you get your bees .. Look up buckeye Queen .. I did and I never looked back .
Check your property in likely areas for the swarm...
I have two swarm traps set out now. Hopefully something will turn up.
It is cold and you disturb them all the time. Isn't that clear?
Check out Doug's video on his bees, made it through and died, cold smap for a few days. TH-cam channel is "Off Grid with Doug and Stacy", it is with in the last 2-3 weeks. He does an interview with a knowledgeable bee keeper.
Watched the WHOLE thing, was a great video. Always so much to learn. I'm a "learner" by nature, so I thrive on this stuff.
Good luck next time...we all make mistakes...
Yup. So long as you learn something, it's a positive in the end.
I am so sorry you lost your bees! We were so worried about ours! Our honey was empty also. Do you think it was the BIG cold snap we had?:( I know you guys are not far from Perrysburg Oh if you are looking for semi local bees this guy is GREAT! ramgeacres.com/
Did you get you food from another place?
mixed sugar water up myself, and the pollen patties came from MannLake - same place I always get them from.
Sorry for your loss. Try checking out Mr Ed's Bees or 628 Dirt Rooster both are great sources of information. th-cam.com/video/NP6psd0T8Js/w-d-xo.html. And Dirt Rooster. th-cam.com/video/FUgL5vH1JlA/w-d-xo.html. God Speed. ❤️🙏🏻💯
I am getting bees for the first time here in May and I will not be taking honey off of them there first year I want them to be strong going into the winter and I will be trying to catch some wild swarms
Good plan!
Too much obsession over the bees. Constant figetting with the bees leads to unwise decisions.
sugar cane
check out treatment free beekeeping before you treat or feed. they did not treat bees in the 1800's why should we now? good luck to you with your swarm traps!
I see you live on a farm , do you or any other farmer around you use GMO seeds for your crops ? GMO"s will kill Bee's !