One point to make is, yes, Cooper has played in a weaker ACC than other Duke greats - but *every* year there have been some weak teams in ACC…and no other Duke player dropped 42 against those weak teams! Also, when Cooper went up against the now number one team in America…he had 20+ against them! p.s. If we are gonna have discussion of top Duke freshmen of all time…Grant Hill’s name *has* to come up as one of them!
@ Which was a miracle considering the fact that at the time the best players didn’t leave and so he had NBA level juniors and seniors on team who hogged shots and minutes (including laettner who averaged 21 per game) - and yet Grant STILL started 30 plus games as a freshmen and played a key role in Duke’s first ever championship. So…respectfully…he DOES belong in that discussion.
This is the reason why surface level fans should do more than just box score scout. If you were ever able to watch the games when Grant Hill played, he had major impact on those games and was definitely a game changer. He played during an era where freshman rarely got to see the floor, because most teams value their senior leadership as most players stayed at least 3 years before going into the NBA. Therefore, being the title that he had as a freshman and was able to actually start and be a major contributoring factor in the championship run shows how important he was as a freshman. So unless you understand the time frame and the context of the situation, please keep your Grand Hill opinions to yourself about him not belonging as a all-time Duke great freshman@@nabacon
I agree with most of what you said respectfully. But being able to put up 40 points doesn't make you the greatest of all time. In my opinion, Zion was definitely the best. Duke prospect and Blue devils history. Cooper flag has a more consistent outside jumpshot than Zion did. But I believe Zion was absolutely unstoppable. He was more of a menace on defense. And his athleticism was unmatched even by Cooper flag. This is not to denigrade Cooper any. I love the kid. But I don't think he is the best because he put up 42 against inferior opponents and no one else did.
@ Well, putting up 42 is not all Cooper has done. He also happens to lead, a vert talented team no less, in every major statistical category and is a hell of a defender! Also, he still had more time to add to his legacy. If he gets player if the year and wins a chip (and these are still major ifs) - I think he is best freshmen all time at Duke.
When comparing freshmen you kinda have to separate the one and done guys from the pre one and done era guys. Some of those freshmen from the earlier era could have put up serious numbers if they didn’t have some of the top upperclassmen in the country on the roster with them.
I'm not even sure about number two, for those of you that didn't get to see Grant Hill. Believe me he was amazing. Also. Kyrie, was going to be a game changer but his season was cut short due to injury. But when he was on the court there was an obvious difference in the level of talent. And then there was Jason Tatum who started the year injured, and was actually supposed to be the second highest recruit in that class behind Harry Giles who never turned out to be what he was projected to be.
Listen man.. I watched every Duke game during Grant Hill's freshman year and if you are saying he did anywhere near what Flagg is doing this year you just arent being truthful. Grant Hill wasn't even the best player on his team, and he may have been the 3rd best behind Laettner & Hurley; especially during his freshman year. He came on strong during the tourney but his numbers (especially across the board) and the impact he had is nowere near comparable to what Flagg is doing this year. Not to mention, Grant Hill played on a team full of Seniors, Juniors and All-Americans and probably barely ever saw a double team all year while starting and seeing big minutes. Flagg is doubled and sometimes tripled on almost every play.. Just be honest...
@garethmurphy8235 and you said it, he was on a team full of seniors in a time when freshman battle saw the floor. He didn't get the chance to do the things Cooper is doing, nor did he need to. Truth is, do we really know how good Grant Hill was as a freshman? Coach k had super seniors he was not about to sit for a freshman. That's how that era was. But Hill was phenomenal in the moments we was able to shine. He should be in the consideration was basically what I was saying because he was sensational in limited minutes
One point to make is, yes, Cooper has played in a weaker ACC than other Duke greats - but *every* year there have been some weak teams in ACC…and no other Duke player dropped 42 against those weak teams!
Also, when Cooper went up against the now number one team in America…he had 20+ against them!
p.s. If we are gonna have discussion of top Duke freshmen of all time…Grant Hill’s name *has* to come up as one of them!
Grant Hill averaged 11/5/2 as a freshman. Respectfully, he doesn't belong in these convos.
@ Which was a miracle considering the fact that at the time the best players didn’t leave and so he had NBA level juniors and seniors on team who hogged shots and minutes (including laettner who averaged 21 per game) - and yet Grant STILL started 30 plus games as a freshmen and played a key role in Duke’s first ever championship. So…respectfully…he DOES belong in that discussion.
This is the reason why surface level fans should do more than just box score scout. If you were ever able to watch the games when Grant Hill played, he had major impact on those games and was definitely a game changer. He played during an era where freshman rarely got to see the floor, because most teams value their senior leadership as most players stayed at least 3 years before going into the NBA. Therefore, being the title that he had as a freshman and was able to actually start and be a major contributoring factor in the championship run shows how important he was as a freshman. So unless you understand the time frame and the context of the situation, please keep your Grand Hill opinions to yourself about him not belonging as a all-time Duke great freshman@@nabacon
I agree with most of what you said respectfully. But being able to put up 40 points doesn't make you the greatest of all time. In my opinion, Zion was definitely the best. Duke prospect and Blue devils history. Cooper flag has a more consistent outside jumpshot than Zion did. But I believe Zion was absolutely unstoppable. He was more of a menace on defense. And his athleticism was unmatched even by Cooper flag. This is not to denigrade Cooper any. I love the kid. But I don't think he is the best because he put up 42 against inferior opponents and no one else did.
@ Well, putting up 42 is not all Cooper has done. He also happens to lead, a vert talented team no less, in every major statistical category and is a hell of a defender! Also, he still had more time to add to his legacy. If he gets player if the year and wins a chip (and these are still major ifs) - I think he is best freshmen all time at Duke.
Zion is definitely the #1 freshman. Cooper is on pace for the #2 spot, but if he can win a title, you can argue him as #1 ahead of Zion.
When comparing freshmen you kinda have to separate the one and done guys from the pre one and done era guys. Some of those freshmen from the earlier era could have put up serious numbers if they didn’t have some of the top upperclassmen in the country on the roster with them.
I'm not even sure about number two, for those of you that didn't get to see Grant Hill. Believe me he was amazing. Also. Kyrie, was going to be a game changer but his season was cut short due to injury. But when he was on the court there was an obvious difference in the level of talent. And then there was Jason Tatum who started the year injured, and was actually supposed to be the second highest recruit in that class behind Harry Giles who never turned out to be what he was projected to be.
Listen man.. I watched every Duke game during Grant Hill's freshman year and if you are saying he did anywhere near what Flagg is doing this year you just arent being truthful. Grant Hill wasn't even the best player on his team, and he may have been the 3rd best behind Laettner & Hurley; especially during his freshman year. He came on strong during the tourney but his numbers (especially across the board) and the impact he had is nowere near comparable to what Flagg is doing this year. Not to mention, Grant Hill played on a team full of Seniors, Juniors and All-Americans and probably barely ever saw a double team all year while starting and seeing big minutes. Flagg is doubled and sometimes tripled on almost every play.. Just be honest...
@garethmurphy8235 and you said it, he was on a team full of seniors in a time when freshman battle saw the floor. He didn't get the chance to do the things Cooper is doing, nor did he need to. Truth is, do we really know how good Grant Hill was as a freshman? Coach k had super seniors he was not about to sit for a freshman. That's how that era was. But Hill was phenomenal in the moments we was able to shine. He should be in the consideration was basically what I was saying because he was sensational in limited minutes
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