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This is why I always set up my kits with the kick off to the right, because I always have my snare to the center. Even in a 1 up 2 down set up I do. I've been told it looks odd, but it helps a lot in both my ability to play as well as keeping my spine and muscles from getting more distorted, overall prolonging how late into my life I can play. I have scoliosis so not only does it keep my back from hurting, it also helps me keep posture during the complex stuff like fills, rolls, and fast kicks.
It's all about personal preferences and what's comfortable and natural for you but I agree you're way is better for me as well it does look weird but thats because so many have been caught up setting up the drumset with the bass drum center for decades so people naturally assume that's how it has to go
I'm 62, still playing rock, moved from double bass drum kits to single bass drum with a double pedal, i've tried angling the bass drum over to the right, but it pushed the 1st floor tom a tad more behind which affected some fills i'm used to, i now have the bass drum straight like everyone, still sitting well centered but with offset rack toms to the left which allows the ride to be moved inward over the bass drum, i play heel up on the bass drum, so my foot is slightly angled and not totally straight with the pedal foot plate, no speed or power issues with the right pedal...
I’ve been drumming on and off stage for over 20 years and i dont twist my back have my kick faceing straight forward.. this is 100% personal preference. This video gets a c- rating
With the kick off to the right? Wow thats odd (Every setup ever has the kick off to the right/or mirrored left if left handed) So weird. Is the snare between your knees, cuz that'd be real unique of you to do
@@NintenDub I am going to make the assumption that the commenter is a woman and since they have wider hips it’s probably more off to the right than normal, but you’re right snare in the middle is unheard of lol
I remember making this realization a few years ago. Once I set up facing forwards, my playing just opened up and flowed naturally as opposed to before when I was all jammed up. The sound of your instrument (and you, by extension) should always take precedent over what it looks like on stage, but I usually work this into the stage set up. I’ll set up upstage left and the bass player will set up upstage right and angle left, so it’s like we’re making a little semicircle. It’s always struck me as a more intimate, less pretentious sort of feel.
I agree with you. Much ado about nothing. "Symmetrical Posture" - this is not about the appearance of the drummer It's about the music. I've been playing since the 1960's, from rock to jazz in all size kits. I never worried about which direction my body was facing and I never twisted my back. It's about the music and not about how the audience sees my body or my face. I've even had to face the audience at a 90-degree angle because of the small bandstand and I had to fit into the contour of the grand piano. This is not a big deal. When I get hired to play with a trio, quartet or big band, I am never asked about how my drums look. I do get asked about my playing abiity. I always faced the bass drum towards the audience, or wherever the band leader wanted. As long as my body is positioned ergonomically for my comfort AND efficiency, I am happy. As a matter of interest, most drummers who read music (if right-handed), will have their head facing to their left and looking down while reading.
@@Groov3lab that's poor advice, because when you are a beginner and muscles in the fingers/wrists are weak you will learn bad habits like using your strong fore arm muscles only. Learning correct technique is never going to be "comfortable" bit its a necessary progression to getting good
People have always asked me if I angle my kick on stage just because it looks cool, and I say "no, everyone else has just got it wrong". Thanks for putting the truth out into the world!
I’ve been playing drums for almost 15 years and I’ve never thought about it, I always thought the bass drum was the middle of the drumkit, but after watching this, I think my back and my posture will thank you 100,000 times thank you so much ❤
5:39. Ergonomics are critical. So is stretching, warming up, hydration and nutrition if you want to play full throttle for long shows. Great topic. Love your Samba and Bossa Nova lessons!
I've just give my friends 11 year old kids my drum kit and was trying to explain how to do it and I've shared this because it explains very well what I was trying to do. Cheers 👍 @4:43 is the set up 💚💛❤️
I recently switched back to running my kick drum straight after a couple of years of angling it, with my body positioned around 11 o’clock, and it feels like it’s really opened up my playing plane. When you angle your kick drum to the right, the more you do so, the farther your floor tom will be, which can throw off your setup. Even with the kick drum facing forward, you can still maintain the natural position of your feet as they rest when you’re seated on the throne. The key is to first position your kick drum forward, then adjust your body angle-around 11 o’clock or wherever your feet naturally rest-to match the angle of the kick drum. This way, you achieve better alignment and comfort while playing.
Absolutely correct. I discovered this concept a few years ago by accident playing a very small stage. So much more comfortable and really helped my mobility around the kit. Brilliant video sir.
Absolutely correct. I figured it out in my early twenties when I put together my first double bass drum kit. All of a sudden everything was balanced and ergonomic. It all made sense. I was no longer fighting against my body. When I went back to a single bass drum kit after many years of playing double bass drums nothing changed with my seating position except that I took away one of the bass drums. I've had musicians and sound people ask me why my bass drum isn't facing forward which always amazes me because a lot of times these are shows at fairly decent sized festivals and they should know better. I tell them the bass drum facing forward is not a natural position for playing drums. That I want to do as little twisting as possible and want to have everyone on stage to be at a minimum easily within my peripheral vision. I've also sat in on drum kits where the drummer has insisted the bass drum face forward. I look at them and wonder why they never ask themselves why their foot is hanging off the edge of the bass drum pedal at a weird angle. Or why their hi hat pedal is way over to their far side at a weird angle to compensate for their primary problem of having set the kit up in a way that doesn't conform to the human body.
BRAVO. I have been saying this for years. I start my kit setup as a tripod, with my seat being one leg, and my feet the other two. Thus, with my feet planted on the ground in the most comfortable position, I place the kick pedal and hi hat pedal under my feet. Bass drum is setup where the kick pedal was placed. My snare drum and first rack tom are directly forward. Hi hat and bass drum at angles right and left. Very comfortable and efficient !
Your advice about the "center" instantly improved my simple 4/4 time roll around my 4 piece kit. I have such a long way to go but you helped me solve one mystery,,,thank you. Back to practice!
Perfect! shoved the bass drum over a bit and not only did it line up better but as I use a double bass pedal it brought the hi hat pedal closer and more accessible! Cheers!
I just bought a set of Tama Swingstars. I like them a lot. I am new to drumming, but I discovered I love it! It is very important to me that I start out right, and do not develop poor habits. And the set-up, that is elemental. Essential. The bed-rock. Thank you so much!! Mark
That's fantastic, Mark! Welcome to the drumming community. Starting with the right foundation is crucial, and I'm glad you're emphasizing set-up. If you have questions along the way, don't hesitate to ask!
@@drumdog Thank you so much. I have cymbol, high hat, base, snare 3 toms, cowbell... So big tom to the left? I want to arrange the furniture correctly. There has to be a floor-plan, I ain't got one because I know nothing, other than I want my setup correct before I really get into it and develop all the bad habits and reflexes... Really, thanks! Mark
Having played for 35 years myself and reluctant to change anything, as I felt it would be like trying to figure out something but after watching this video I feel set free and going to make the change because I felt some low back stiffness and my left arm starting to bother me some so thank you very much !!!
A great video, it’s something I tried after some guitar lessons where the teacher explained about the ergonomics of the guitar. Moving the bass drum to the right made an immediate difference, comfort and control over the kick improved right away.
I've been playing drums for over 40 years and I've never really thought much about positioning my kit. I realize now that my back hurts a lot less when I do. Thank you for sharing!
I followed your tip and i played the coolest, smoothiest, continuous 10 minute jam around all my kit for the first time since i started (less tham 2 months ago), god bless you!
Thank you for this video. i knew i wasn’t just being odd with how ive felt over egonomocs. Being only a beginner for a few months but play at a level a little bit further ahead than the time ive been learning. I am slowly convincing my teacher to take angling the kit like this as a precedent over how it would look on stage. As it looks far worse if i am sitting over far left if i dont move the kit. Hard when its just a kit not setup to me but years of doing weightlifting and being aware of my core and body definitely lets me debate my point across stronger with posture and how well i play in a lesson. Get the need for some level of adaptability but ultimately how youre setup and play should be key. Sometimes convention and tradition really does fly in the face of what makes sense.
Thanks Drum Dog. That was excellent. Like Ms. Jessica, I've been setting up like you suggest for years. It was purely selfish on my part because I wanted to face forward. I still get asked a lot why the kick isn't facing forward. The easy answer is, then I would by facing stage left. Drums are pretty omni-directional anyway.
And yet we still twist ourselves up by crossing our hands/arms over to play the hihat and snare which makes even less sense than facing our bass drum forward. The best thing I ever did for my playing was to start playing the hihat and snare open handed, not only does it take all of the remaining stress off of your spine, it will work wonders on you left/weak hand! I started doing this about ten years ago and the change in my weak hand is tremendous!
I’m a beginner, shifted my kick right, and adjusted everything accordingly to the new position. This has made a huge difference, and doesn’t feel as alien as the kick directly in the center seemed to be, in my opinion. Thanks for the heads up 👍
The important thing is to align yourself with your set up. In most of the pubs and venues ive played in over the years sometimes i am squeezed into the back of the small area weve been given to play in and often the placing of the bass drum is the key to space management and sound projection. Whilst i agree with what you are saying ,to align yourself central to the rest of the band, sometimes its just important to set up the kit in the best way possible then sit behind it correctly. If that means facing slightly left, or right if you sre a left hooker, then so be it. The audience wont give a stuff anyway as they will be focused on the singer mainly!! Good video though.
your drum still takes up the same space. if you do this kind of set up in a small venue, the only difference is that you wont be looking at the audience straight, which is a small price to pay for a non twisted back
After almost 40 years of playing 4 piece I pulled that other rack tom out of moth balls and decided to go 2 up one down for fun like I did in the 1970s. Using the double tom mount on the bass drum like I did back in the day didn't cut it so I ended up mounting both rack toms on a stand just to the side of the bass drum. I didn't really consider it at the time but it does put me centered over the snare drum instead of the bass drum as Mr. Drum Dog describes and it's definitely easier to get around the kit now.
When I set up I put the snare between my legs and my pedals under the corresponding feet and then build around that. As an old guy, you gotta be comfortable
I just ran across this video today. However, I figured this out myself a few weeks ago. I have a double tom stand that I use. Before I set anything else up, I set that up, put my two toms on it and then center my snare on them. My kick is angled slightly to the right now, but it feels just fine. : )
LOVE THIS POST! THANK YOU! I would like to add a second item: NEVER handle cymbals with bare hands. It's just about IMPOSSIBLE to get fingerprints OUT of them once they're IN the grooves of them.
I get it. I really do. But the result of moving the kick to the right is floor Tom moving more to the rear. Look at the video here and see how he’s now hitting the floor Tom off center. If you’re ok with that, then good on ya. But if you’re a drummer who likes to hit the floor Tom in the center, you’ll likely have to pull your right arm back more to hit the center. Me? I keep my kick facing forward and centered and just pivot my body to the left.
I'm a retired fireman and former policeman and Naval Petty Officer and have just chosen to become a drummer at 57. I have the kit and will practicing alot. I liken this to my cycling tech hobbie. I hope to be on the GCN cycling Rock Concert event with my fellow road cyclists someday. #peace
Nice to see a thought out approach to this. I actually figure this out back in about 1986. As my budget and kit grew I ended up with a big 9 piece, double kick Pearl Export (the classic chrome finish, very 80’s) setup. The natural way a double kit sets its itself up, especially with the four up one or two down, is both kicks angle to your feet with the snare in the centre. Now, I just simply removed the left kick (got sick of varying two kicks about) and there it was. The natural seating position. My kit shrunk back to my original kit with 1 up two down but I’ve always retained the doubles kick layout. The actually make for a nice snare and tom central to each other with the ride sitting nicely over the kick. I see too many one up two down with the tom kicked over to one side of the snare which then makes it bloody awkward to get from the tom to the first floor. Still, after all that waffle it is 100% down to personal choice. Whatever make you fell comfortable, just watch your back. After 43 years of playing it’s imperative you keep your posture correct.
After 43 years of playing you should keep your back straight. So what’s your advice for the 43 years before that ?! Lean to the left? Hunch forward?! Bend it backwards ?!
@@johnmcisaac7905 I'd been playing this central way since 1986, as in I figured this out back then about the central positioning. Not sure you got my point in the original post.
Did this for years. When I started singing more leads, I set-up on the side of the stage and faced left. It was weird for the band at first but we grew to love it. The big point is don't kill your posture for the sake of 'tradition'.
I think the bass drum became the center of the kit because in the early days of rock ’n’ roll, bands often put their name across the bass drum head. It was natural then that they wanted the majority of the audience to see it.
most drummer still have the bass drum facing toward the front of the stage for the same reason, it just means you as a person aren't facing the front of the stage, but it;s not like you are far off.
Great overview and basic lesson that, I'll bet, a lot of us drummer's just by pass on the road to playing fast rudiments and fills etc. Great content, as usual. Thanks.
We do the same thing except the left (from the drummer's perspective) kick is totally for show. Double kick pedal on the right kick, just keeps that consistency in sound, plus rather than wasting another mic pre and processing and another microphone just to have 2 kick sounds that don't match, nah.
@@djjazzyjeff1232 I personally find that acoustically two ever so slightly different sounding bass drums gives a pleasant result to my ears. In the rare instances I'd have my two bass drums live I use triggers.
Now can someone explain how to keep the bass drum facing straight out towards the audience but also apply this method? Does that mean tweaking the drum stool and snare placement?
I take a similar approach to drum kit setup, however I actually place the hi-hat and bass drum pedals parallel to each other so that I face foward and I don't have to turn my body to reach around the drum kit. To be fair, I only use 1 floor tom usually, and I don't use many cymbals either, but it means the kit and myself can face forwards and everything can be close together!
I recently replaced my round-topped drum throne with a saddle style and found that this issue came to the fore again. The focus on a previous “parallel” set-up; where the high toms, then and high-hat, snare and floor tom, and then you are facing the same forwards direction but are centred badd drum-breadthwise was the original way I’d play. Now with the saddle seat, placing my legs on a more fixed meridian either side of the snare at equal angles to each of the hh and bd pedals is the norm.
I've been setting up my kit this way for 30+ years. My first kit had two kick drums. When I went to double pedal, I just left my main kick where it had always been.
Yeah. I just started thinking about this recently - always thinking previously, "well, as a drummer, I just sort of set up with my body oriented toward the left. It's crazy when you think about it! Double Bass players (with two bass drums) have basically always had this figured out!!!
Good video. And yes, actually the center of the kit also soundwise should be the snare. I have been playing many small stages with space being less than what wee need to add 3 cabinets for guitars and bass, we've always started with me positioning my carpet and the drum chair. I've always tried to be as much on the center of the stage and with my body facing straight towards the audience. Than i put the kick, pedals high hat, snare and so on. Naturally we end up with two amps on my left, first the bass than a guitar, and on my right, the other guitar. We've played on a skate ramp many times, with not more than 3-4 meters flat part and that was the only possible set up.
Im used to playing a 1 up 2 down setup. I love having my hi hats right to my left and its also why i used to not play double bass. I found a 2 leg hh stand and now ive been pearning double bass. With my current band and music im playing im upgrading my kit im refirbishing an old 8 pc i have its got 4 racks and 2 floors. I think im going to set up the 2 lower racks off of my 2 main right and left crash stands and get a double tom stand to add the other 2 to my left. Im willing to adjust cymbal height im going to try to set up the highest tom a bit over my hi hat. I refuse to move my hi hats over to accommodate for any tom toms thats just stupid to me. I look at neal pearts set up for a guage. Also seems nick menzas setup is pretty nice but i think his hi hats are put a little much to the left for me.
I see the way he has it set up in this video im going to do basically the same with one more tom more slanted over my hi hat. If it doesnt work out ill give up on that last tom
You seem to be assuming that facing just slightly to the left is a bad thing because you'd have to look back to your right!!! That entirely depends on the stage setup. In a big band the drummer often sets up to the right of the drop and thus looking a bit to the left is useful. Also, often we have musicians on both sides of us that we need to make eye contact with, thus it may not really matter that much exactly where you're pointed as long as you can access your kit comfortably and effectively.
I have been playing since I was 5. I am now 75. I have never had any issues with keeping my bass drum centered while my body faces slightly left (as a right handed drummer) with the snare between my legs. I use 2 floor toms so if I need to twist slightly to my right lets not forget that's why the drum throne swivels!
Thanks. It did make a big difference for me. I always wanted the band logo on the bass facing forward, but after readjusting I'm thinking the audience can turn their bodies to see the band logo.
I had this very epiphany just last week! Everything felt immediately more natural the second I rearranged my kit with the snare as my center. I found myself smiling because it felt right for the first time. Great video!
i set my drums exactly like that without any lessons. it is just the most natural way if you think about it. the only difference I have is that I see the player/drum throne as the absolute center instead of the snare drum but it is still the same principle at work
Awesome video. I play with a 28 inch kick and 14 inch rack and 18 inch floor so my kick faces straight ahead of me and my snare is nearly in the center of it, rack tom is as far to the left as the floor is to the right just cause of the size of the drums.
This is an great, very informative video and I especially love the visuals you showed, my brain works visually... well... when it works, it works visually 😊😂 I'm 50, hubby 53, and had been keeping our sons huge nice mapex set he's been building up since he saved and bought it on his own at 15. But was also just sorta teaching himself as we didn't have the money for lessons😢🤦🏻♀️🥺 so, I'd just play around in them here n there... I'm a lefty, ambidextrous in everything including my art.... so I just played on his, he's right handed, but while I could get 2 things going together, adding the 3rd🥵🤯🤬🤬🤬🤬🤯😬 but, in a visit home a song came on i love and as always I don't have a choice but to drop the dishes (slowly of course... somewhat anyway 😬) and pound out the beat with my hands on the counter.... so my son and I were side by side when he realized which hand I tended to keep time... not sure that's the correct terminology, probably not, sorry😊, but but I did so with my left. I had mentioned before that my doing things with both hands makes things easier in most ways, I think it made it a bit difficult on the drums because, for example, I just wanted to be able to do the opening to the Disturbed song Down with the Sickness... I know I know, y'all are like "oy!! SO simple!" 😊 but, I'm old with very significant health issues so my brain is pretty foggy, and now oxygen deprived due to a surgeon that seemed to forget how to surgeon in the middle of my dangerous one... so, now oxygen tanks forever, but, at least I worked my 🤬 off and got most of the use of the arm back after he killed it😬 Anyway... so, I'd find my rhythm with it, but then my other hands would try to go first one time and of course mess me up. But once he saw me drumming fast on the counter, plus I've been using it as both exercise, physical & mental & getting out aggression with very loud noises no matter how bad i suck at it :) But, he finally found a place to store his drums to play up with him.... and I realized how much I'd miss being able to do downstairs on a good day when I could walk,, and pound on them😊 So, even though drowning in debt due to my new medical needs, my hubby is an awesome guy and he likes drums too, so we just yesterday got a used 5 piece Tama, but an upgraded snare and good heads. But we need a stool and better cymbals (one day) and cymbal stands, now... for $200... we tried to do as much research as possible but also what we could afford, well, forcefully afford, and what was close-ish.... so hopefully it's a good one😬 But, our son learning on his own 15 yrs ago, yea, he set it up kick straight out and once he added a ton to his kit, its real hard .. I think, but he won't admit🙄😏... to twist so far around to hit that 2nd (3rd?🤷🏻♀️) floor tom. My lower back i all titanium, with many other injuries, so, too hard for me. But, everyone just said that was the way :/ So, I'm glad to know it doesn't have to be the way. So... first off...sorry fornthe long comment, but I'm an over-explainer, clearly, and I'm excited/nervous so, babble ensues 😊 Next... does having the kick off to the side affect the sound a lot? I'm guessing no since it works. We're trying to figure out how to set our up... as I said, I'm a lefty, though I'd gotten used to the toms on my right so that will be an adjustment, but not bad. But also trying to set it up to somewhat easily flip it for occasionally when my hubby wants to play... so... we'll see :) I'm not looking to be a pro or anything near, and with my health practice will be as often as possible, so, just learning. So I appreciate these videos SO much!! Any advice is awesome!!! Thank you!!😊
@@drumdog ...i made the adjustment..i feel more comfortable after...funny thing is i thought i was comfortable before i moved the bass drum over...but now i realize i had been fighting poor posture...thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Watching this video makes me so glad the remote hi hat stand was invented. This is a fantastic guide to setting up a kit to be comfortable, but I hope we won't need it forever. I really think the only reason drum kits are set up the way they are is because of how regular hi hat stands work.
I immediately said "NAW! Not the kick it's the snare!" But that's where you were headed. It's also the center of the beat! If you can JUST keep the snare (or get it back) on time you can do whatever you want elsewhere.
I have been setting up this way for years. When I sit in on someone else's kit which has been set up in the "traditional" way -- kick drum facing straight ahead-- I find it rather uncomfortable. Also, I'm in my sixties and I have long standing neck issues. So I find the traditional set limits my view of the right side of the stage. I usually wind up with a very sore neck if I play for any length of time in this position. I didn't come up with the idea of centering the snare drum so that my body naturally faces straight forward. I read an article dealing with this concept in Modern Drummer Magazine some twenty years ago. I regret I cannot recall the name of the author. But I do remember him calling it the twisted torso problem. Anyway, I tried it and have played that way ever since. Six years I got an OffSet double pedal. It basically has two slave pedals with the drive shafts meeting in the middle where the beaters are located. This allows the base drum to set up facing the front while still maintaining the snare drum in the middle. It's not as quick to set up as there are three pieces instead of the usual two in a double pedal system. But it's fun to be able to sit in my favourite position and still have the base drum also centered and facing forward so that people can see the artwork on the resonant head.
While I adhere to the mechanics you layer out, as it makes more sense ergonomically, I do keep my bass drum in the center, perpendicular to the stage, as is traditional. It not only looks more symmetrical, it also looks more pleasing and the the two are actually linked here. Because when things are not symmetrical in some way, it tends do be distracting. (Which is why a double kick setup doesn’t phase anyone: two kicks mean symmetry). The other disadvantage (and I know from experience) is that bandmates which see a kit with an angled bass drum as taking up more space in tighter spaces, and they tend to not like it as much. So it’s something to avoid, it possible. As to me, I just pivot to the left so I’m comfortable and it’s ergonomical. And that’s it.
Love that blue set of yours. That first generation of 100% birch stage customs have slightly deeper shells than the current generation and sound fuller imo.
I solved the problem with a Offset double pedel. It centers the kick infront of you and allows a symetrical, or partaly symetrical layout. side benifet is no left pedal lag.
I´ve been setting my kit this way for almost 20 years, since I´ve see Korn´s David Silvera setting up this way. It feels more confortable not to be facing slightly sidewise, apart from from being aesthetically more pleasant.
Drum dog! Great vid. Please let me know, If you would consider doing a review of a new and different way to set up a kit, please let me know. I think I may have something you would really find fascinating. It’s in some ways similar to Daru Jones, but with some key unique things going on.
Drum ergonomics are very important but it depends on genre a Lil. If your playing light rock then a standard setup is OK. Twist and all. But if your playing metal or punk or something, ergonomics is a must
Not sure I'd agree with you there, I'd say a twist is a bad thing no matter the genre. Even the lightest of playing benefits from a solid and stable core.
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This is why I always set up my kits with the kick off to the right, because I always have my snare to the center. Even in a 1 up 2 down set up I do. I've been told it looks odd, but it helps a lot in both my ability to play as well as keeping my spine and muscles from getting more distorted, overall prolonging how late into my life I can play. I have scoliosis so not only does it keep my back from hurting, it also helps me keep posture during the complex stuff like fills, rolls, and fast kicks.
It's all about personal preferences and what's comfortable and natural for you but I agree you're way is better for me as well it does look weird but thats because so many have been caught up setting up the drumset with the bass drum center for decades so people naturally assume that's how it has to go
I'm 62, still playing rock, moved from double bass drum kits to single bass drum with a double pedal, i've tried angling the bass drum over to the right, but it pushed the 1st floor tom a tad more behind which affected some fills i'm used to, i now have the bass drum straight like everyone, still sitting well centered but with offset rack toms to the left which allows the ride to be moved inward over the bass drum, i play heel up on the bass drum, so my foot is slightly angled and not totally straight with the pedal foot plate, no speed or power issues with the right pedal...
I’ve been drumming on and off stage for over 20 years and i dont twist my back have my kick faceing straight forward.. this is 100% personal preference. This video gets a c- rating
With the kick off to the right? Wow thats odd
(Every setup ever has the kick off to the right/or mirrored left if left handed)
So weird. Is the snare between your knees, cuz that'd be real unique of you to do
@@NintenDub I am going to make the assumption that the commenter is a woman and since they have wider hips it’s probably more off to the right than normal, but you’re right snare in the middle is unheard of lol
As a beginner drummer, this video helped me a lot! Thanks for straight to the straight-to-the-point content and great drumming!
I remember making this realization a few years ago. Once I set up facing forwards, my playing just opened up and flowed naturally as opposed to before when I was all jammed up. The sound of your instrument (and you, by extension) should always take precedent over what it looks like on stage, but I usually work this into the stage set up. I’ll set up upstage left and the bass player will set up upstage right and angle left, so it’s like we’re making a little semicircle. It’s always struck me as a more intimate, less pretentious sort of feel.
Playing drums professionally for 50 years I will save y'all alot of time...set everything up where you can reach everything easily. That's it.
100% Same goes for stick technique. Do whatever is most comfortable and effective for you.
@@Groov3lab Yes do. But learn different techniques so you can make an informed decision.
I thought your supposed to set em up and than go outside
I agree with you. Much ado about nothing. "Symmetrical Posture" - this is not about the appearance of the drummer It's about the music.
I've been playing since the 1960's, from rock to jazz in all size kits. I never worried about which direction my body was facing and I never twisted my back. It's about the music and not about how the audience sees my body or my face. I've even had to face the audience at a 90-degree angle because of the small bandstand and I had to fit into the contour of the grand piano. This is not a big deal. When I get hired to play with a trio, quartet or big band, I am never asked about how my drums look. I do get asked about my playing abiity.
I always faced the bass drum towards the audience, or wherever the band leader wanted. As long as my body is positioned ergonomically for my comfort AND efficiency, I am happy.
As a matter of interest, most drummers who read music (if right-handed), will have their head facing to their left and looking down while reading.
@@Groov3lab that's poor advice, because when you are a beginner and muscles in the fingers/wrists are weak you will learn bad habits like using your strong fore arm muscles only. Learning correct technique is never going to be "comfortable" bit its a necessary progression to getting good
People have always asked me if I angle my kick on stage just because it looks cool, and I say "no, everyone else has just got it wrong". Thanks for putting the truth out into the world!
Beginner here, learning on my own w/o lessons. This was *extremely* useful.
All the best to you! 🤘rock on. How's it going?
I’ve been playing drums for almost 15 years and I’ve never thought about it, I always thought the bass drum was the middle of the drumkit, but after watching this, I think my back and my posture will thank you 100,000 times thank you so much ❤
Snare drum is.
5:39. Ergonomics are critical. So is stretching, warming up, hydration and nutrition if you want to play full throttle for long shows.
Great topic. Love your Samba and Bossa Nova lessons!
Thanks for joining us again Saroja! 😊
I've just give my friends 11 year old kids my drum kit and was trying to explain how to do it and I've shared this because it explains very well what I was trying to do. Cheers 👍 @4:43 is the set up 💚💛❤️
Nice man. I gave my old pearl exports to a friend's kid.
I recently switched back to running my kick drum straight after a couple of years of angling it, with my body positioned around 11 o’clock, and it feels like it’s really opened up my playing plane. When you angle your kick drum to the right, the more you do so, the farther your floor tom will be, which can throw off your setup. Even with the kick drum facing forward, you can still maintain the natural position of your feet as they rest when you’re seated on the throne. The key is to first position your kick drum forward, then adjust your body angle-around 11 o’clock or wherever your feet naturally rest-to match the angle of the kick drum. This way, you achieve better alignment and comfort while playing.
Absolutely correct. I discovered this concept a few years ago by accident playing a very small stage. So much more comfortable and really helped my mobility around the kit. Brilliant video sir.
Absolutely correct. I figured it out in my early twenties when I put together my first double bass drum kit. All of a sudden everything was balanced and ergonomic. It all made sense. I was no longer fighting against my body. When I went back to a single bass drum kit after many years of playing double bass drums nothing changed with my seating position except that I took away one of the bass drums. I've had musicians and sound people ask me why my bass drum isn't facing forward which always amazes me because a lot of times these are shows at fairly decent sized festivals and they should know better. I tell them the bass drum facing forward is not a natural position for playing drums. That I want to do as little twisting as possible and want to have everyone on stage to be at a minimum easily within my peripheral vision. I've also sat in on drum kits where the drummer has insisted the bass drum face forward. I look at them and wonder why they never ask themselves why their foot is hanging off the edge of the bass drum pedal at a weird angle. Or why their hi hat pedal is way over to their far side at a weird angle to compensate for their primary problem of having set the kit up in a way that doesn't conform to the human body.
BRAVO. I have been saying this for years. I start my kit setup as a tripod, with my seat being one leg, and my feet the other two. Thus, with my feet planted on the ground in the most comfortable position, I place the kick pedal and hi hat pedal under my feet. Bass drum is setup where the kick pedal was placed. My snare drum and first rack tom are directly forward. Hi hat and bass drum at angles right and left. Very comfortable and efficient !
Ty! Just started drums, got my first drum set, setting it up. This will help tons.
Great to hear!
Your advice about the "center" instantly improved my simple 4/4 time roll around my 4 piece kit. I have such a long way to go but you helped me solve one mystery,,,thank you. Back to practice!
Arguably the most important fundamental when starting to play the drums!!! Well done!
I love this! I have been playing snare-centric for about 3 years and I have seen a shift in my posture and my playing!
Perfect! shoved the bass drum over a bit and not only did it line up better but as I use a double bass pedal it brought the hi hat pedal closer and more accessible! Cheers!
I just bought a set of Tama Swingstars. I like them a lot.
I am new to drumming, but I discovered I love it!
It is very important to me that I start out right, and do not develop poor habits.
And the set-up, that is elemental. Essential. The bed-rock.
Thank you so much!!
Mark
That's fantastic, Mark! Welcome to the drumming community. Starting with the right foundation is crucial, and I'm glad you're emphasizing set-up. If you have questions along the way, don't hesitate to ask!
@@drumdog Thank you so much.
I have cymbol, high hat, base, snare 3 toms, cowbell...
So big tom to the left?
I want to arrange the furniture correctly.
There has to be a floor-plan, I ain't got one because I know nothing, other than I want my setup correct before I really get into it and develop all the bad habits and reflexes...
Really, thanks!
Mark
Having played for 35 years myself and reluctant to change anything, as I felt it would be like trying to figure out something but after watching this video I feel set free and going to make the change because I felt some low back stiffness and my left arm starting to bother me some so thank you very much !!!
A great video, it’s something I tried after some guitar lessons where the teacher explained about the ergonomics of the guitar. Moving the bass drum to the right made an immediate difference, comfort and control over the kick improved right away.
Thanks! I'm going to try this after 41 years of playing.
I've been playing drums for over 40 years and I've never really thought much about positioning my kit. I realize now that my back hurts a lot less when I do. Thank you for sharing!
I followed your tip and i played the coolest, smoothiest, continuous 10 minute jam around all my kit for the first time since i started (less tham 2 months ago), god bless you!
Such a useful tutorial for a newbie. Getting it right from the jump! Thx
I too have been playing for many years and never gave this a thought. It’s blindingly obvious now. Can’t wait for a new beginning this week. Thank you
Thank you for this video. i knew i wasn’t just being odd with how ive felt over egonomocs. Being only a beginner for a few months but play at a level a little bit further ahead than the time ive been learning. I am slowly convincing my teacher to take angling the kit like this as a precedent over how it would look on stage. As it looks far worse if i am sitting over far left if i dont move the kit. Hard when its just a kit not setup to me but years of doing weightlifting and being aware of my core and body definitely lets me debate my point across stronger with posture and how well i play in a lesson. Get the need for some level of adaptability but ultimately how youre setup and play should be key. Sometimes convention and tradition really does fly in the face of what makes sense.
Thanks Drum Dog. That was excellent. Like Ms. Jessica, I've been setting up like you suggest for years. It was purely selfish on my part because I wanted to face forward. I still get asked a lot why the kick isn't facing forward. The easy answer is, then I would by facing stage left. Drums are pretty omni-directional anyway.
And yet we still twist ourselves up by crossing our hands/arms over to play the hihat and snare which makes even less sense than facing our bass drum forward. The best thing I ever did for my playing was to start playing the hihat and snare open handed, not only does it take all of the remaining stress off of your spine, it will work wonders on you left/weak hand! I started doing this about ten years ago and the change in my weak hand is tremendous!
I've been doing this for years. An added benefit is the kick is usually aimed at the guitarist which helps him feel it more.
just made the switch over the weekend and a much better feeling
Awesome 😎
I’m a beginner, shifted my kick right, and adjusted everything accordingly to the new position. This has made a huge difference, and doesn’t feel as alien as the kick directly in the center seemed to be, in my opinion. Thanks for the heads up 👍
Came here for the info but stayed for his playing. Outstanding groove and tasty fills. Prace from California, brah.
Gotta say i loved the drumming while showing the changes made correctly. Those were slick af
Man man.. you're too good❤🎉..with explanations and with your drumming as well
The important thing is to align yourself with your set up. In most of the pubs and venues ive played in over the years sometimes i am squeezed into the back of the small area weve been given to play in and often the placing of the bass drum is the key to space management and sound projection. Whilst i agree with what you are saying ,to align yourself central to the rest of the band, sometimes its just important to set up the kit in the best way possible then sit behind it correctly. If that means facing slightly left, or right if you sre a left hooker, then so be it. The audience wont give a stuff anyway as they will be focused on the singer mainly!!
Good video though.
your drum still takes up the same space. if you do this kind of set up in a small venue, the only difference is that you wont be looking at the audience straight, which is a small price to pay for a non twisted back
I am so glad this was the first video I looked at before I set up the kit for the first time.
After almost 40 years of playing 4 piece I pulled that other rack tom out of moth balls and decided to go 2 up one down for fun like I did in the 1970s. Using the double tom mount on the bass drum like I did back in the day didn't cut it so I ended up mounting both rack toms on a stand just to the side of the bass drum. I didn't really consider it at the time but it does put me centered over the snare drum instead of the bass drum as Mr. Drum Dog describes and it's definitely easier to get around the kit now.
When I set up I put the snare between my legs and my pedals under the corresponding feet and then build around that. As an old guy, you gotta be comfortable
I just ran across this video today. However, I figured this out myself a few weeks ago. I have a double tom stand that I use. Before I set anything else up, I set that up, put my two toms on it and then center my snare on them. My kick is angled slightly to the right now, but it feels just fine. : )
I love the sound of your toms!
LOVE THIS POST! THANK YOU! I would like to add a second item: NEVER handle cymbals with bare hands. It's just about IMPOSSIBLE to get fingerprints OUT of them once they're IN the grooves of them.
I get it. I really do. But the result of moving the kick to the right is floor Tom moving more to the rear. Look at the video here and see how he’s now hitting the floor Tom off center. If you’re ok with that, then good on ya. But if you’re a drummer who likes to hit the floor Tom in the center, you’ll likely have to pull your right arm back more to hit the center. Me? I keep my kick facing forward and centered and just pivot my body to the left.
I have been playing drums for many years, but never considered this. Thanks.
Thanks for the video. I had never thought of this, and found it very useful!
Glad it was helpful!
I'm a retired fireman and former policeman and Naval Petty Officer and have just chosen to become a drummer at 57. I have the kit and will practicing alot. I liken this to my cycling tech hobbie. I hope to be on the GCN cycling Rock Concert event with my fellow road cyclists someday. #peace
Cycling drummer myself. Stamina and cardio not an issue. Looks like you retired just in time. Keep on rockin.
I’ve been doing this for years. Great explanation.
Nice to see a thought out approach to this. I actually figure this out back in about 1986. As my budget and kit grew I ended up with a big 9 piece, double kick Pearl Export (the classic chrome finish, very 80’s) setup. The natural way a double kit sets its itself up, especially with the four up one or two down, is both kicks angle to your feet with the snare in the centre. Now, I just simply removed the left kick (got sick of varying two kicks about) and there it was. The natural seating position. My kit shrunk back to my original kit with 1 up two down but I’ve always retained the doubles kick layout. The actually make for a nice snare and tom central to each other with the ride sitting nicely over the kick. I see too many one up two down with the tom kicked over to one side of the snare which then makes it bloody awkward to get from the tom to the first floor. Still, after all that waffle it is 100% down to personal choice. Whatever make you fell comfortable, just watch your back. After 43 years of playing it’s imperative you keep your posture correct.
After 43 years of playing you should keep your back straight.
So what’s your advice for the 43 years before that ?!
Lean to the left? Hunch forward?! Bend it backwards ?!
@@johnmcisaac7905 I'd been playing this central way since 1986, as in I figured this out back then about the central positioning. Not sure you got my point in the original post.
Okay Mr. Drum professor : and now you start learning me these great rolls you do in between. 😊🙏
Did this for years. When I started singing more leads, I set-up on the side of the stage and faced left. It was weird for the band at first but we grew to love it.
The big point is don't kill your posture for the sake of 'tradition'.
I think the bass drum became the center of the kit because in the early days of rock ’n’ roll, bands often put their name across the bass drum head. It was natural then that they wanted the majority of the audience to see it.
most drummer still have the bass drum facing toward the front of the stage for the same reason, it just means you as a person aren't facing the front of the stage, but it;s not like you are far off.
Thanks for the info..it solved my drum setup🎶🤗
Great overview and basic lesson that, I'll bet, a lot of us drummer's just by pass on the road to playing fast rudiments and fills etc.
Great content, as usual.
Thanks.
Thanks Jem 🙏
I've been playing with two bass drums for years, it kinda fixes the twisted back issue lol
Instant symmetry 🙌
We do the same thing except the left (from the drummer's perspective) kick is totally for show. Double kick pedal on the right kick, just keeps that consistency in sound, plus rather than wasting another mic pre and processing and another microphone just to have 2 kick sounds that don't match, nah.
@@djjazzyjeff1232 I personally find that acoustically two ever so slightly different sounding bass drums gives a pleasant result to my ears. In the rare instances I'd have my two bass drums live I use triggers.
Now can someone explain how to keep the bass drum facing straight out towards the audience but also apply this method? Does that mean tweaking the drum stool and snare placement?
You do not face the crowd.
Cool principle to build your set, thank you for the vid !
Great tip. Txs!
I take a similar approach to drum kit setup, however I actually place the hi-hat and bass drum pedals parallel to each other so that I face foward and I don't have to turn my body to reach around the drum kit.
To be fair, I only use 1 floor tom usually, and I don't use many cymbals either, but it means the kit and myself can face forwards and everything can be close together!
I recently replaced my round-topped drum throne with a saddle style and found that this issue came to the fore again. The focus on a previous “parallel” set-up; where the
high toms, then and high-hat, snare and floor tom, and then you are facing the same forwards direction but are centred badd drum-breadthwise was the original way I’d play. Now with the saddle seat, placing my legs on a more fixed meridian either side of the snare at equal angles to each of the hh and bd pedals is the norm.
Informative and useful. Thanks for sharing!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I've been setting up my kit this way for 30+ years. My first kit had two kick drums. When I went to double pedal, I just left my main kick where it had always been.
Yeah. I just started thinking about this recently - always thinking previously, "well, as a drummer, I just sort of set up with my body oriented toward the left. It's crazy when you think about it! Double Bass players (with two bass drums) have basically always had this figured out!!!
Do you have a video lesson on how to play that snare and hi hat riff you were doing? I really liked that a lot!
Good video. And yes, actually the center of the kit also soundwise should be the snare. I have been playing many small stages with space being less than what wee need to add 3 cabinets for guitars and bass, we've always started with me positioning my carpet and the drum chair. I've always tried to be as much on the center of the stage and with my body facing straight towards the audience. Than i put the kick, pedals high hat, snare and so on. Naturally we end up with two amps on my left, first the bass than a guitar, and on my right, the other guitar. We've played on a skate ramp many times, with not more than 3-4 meters flat part and that was the only possible set up.
Such good stuff! Thank you!
Im used to playing a 1 up 2 down setup. I love having my hi hats right to my left and its also why i used to not play double bass. I found a 2 leg hh stand and now ive been pearning double bass. With my current band and music im playing im upgrading my kit im refirbishing an old 8 pc i have its got 4 racks and 2 floors. I think im going to set up the 2 lower racks off of my 2 main right and left crash stands and get a double tom stand to add the other 2 to my left. Im willing to adjust cymbal height im going to try to set up the highest tom a bit over my hi hat. I refuse to move my hi hats over to accommodate for any tom toms thats just stupid to me. I look at neal pearts set up for a guage. Also seems nick menzas setup is pretty nice but i think his hi hats are put a little much to the left for me.
I see the way he has it set up in this video im going to do basically the same with one more tom more slanted over my hi hat. If it doesnt work out ill give up on that last tom
You seem to be assuming that facing just slightly to the left is a bad thing because you'd have to look back to your right!!! That entirely depends on the stage setup. In a big band the drummer often sets up to the right of the drop and thus looking a bit to the left is useful. Also, often we have musicians on both sides of us that we need to make eye contact with, thus it may not really matter that much exactly where you're pointed as long as you can access your kit comfortably and effectively.
I have been playing since I was 5. I am now 75. I have never had any issues with keeping my bass drum centered while my body faces slightly left (as a right handed drummer) with the snare between my legs. I use 2 floor toms so if I need to twist slightly to my right lets not forget that's why the drum throne swivels!
Thanks. It did make a big difference for me. I always wanted the band logo on the bass facing forward, but after readjusting I'm thinking the audience can turn their bodies to see the band logo.
Thankyou so much. Obvious when it's pointed out.👍
Thanks!
Great vid. Nice chops as well
I had this very epiphany just last week! Everything felt immediately more natural the second I rearranged my kit with the snare as my center. I found myself smiling because it felt right for the first time. Great video!
i set my drums exactly like that without any lessons. it is just the most natural way if you think about it. the only difference I have is that I see the player/drum throne as the absolute center instead of the snare drum but it is still the same principle at work
I've always preached this... start with the snare. Centre. That alone is a drum set.
Excellent video thank you
Glad you enjoyed it
Awesome video. I play with a 28 inch kick and 14 inch rack and 18 inch floor so my kick faces straight ahead of me and my snare is nearly in the center of it, rack tom is as far to the left as the floor is to the right just cause of the size of the drums.
Those are some serious drum sizes!! 💪
This is an great, very informative video and I especially love the visuals you showed, my brain works visually... well... when it works, it works visually 😊😂
I'm 50, hubby 53, and had been keeping our sons huge nice mapex set he's been building up since he saved and bought it on his own at 15. But was also just sorta teaching himself as we didn't have the money for lessons😢🤦🏻♀️🥺 so, I'd just play around in them here n there... I'm a lefty, ambidextrous in everything including my art.... so I just played on his, he's right handed, but while I could get 2 things going together, adding the 3rd🥵🤯🤬🤬🤬🤬🤯😬 but, in a visit home a song came on i love and as always I don't have a choice but to drop the dishes (slowly of course... somewhat anyway 😬) and pound out the beat with my hands on the counter.... so my son and I were side by side when he realized which hand I tended to keep time... not sure that's the correct terminology, probably not, sorry😊, but but I did so with my left. I had mentioned before that my doing things with both hands makes things easier in most ways, I think it made it a bit difficult on the drums because, for example, I just wanted to be able to do the opening to the Disturbed song Down with the Sickness... I know I know, y'all are like "oy!! SO simple!" 😊 but, I'm old with very significant health issues so my brain is pretty foggy, and now oxygen deprived due to a surgeon that seemed to forget how to surgeon in the middle of my dangerous one... so, now oxygen tanks forever, but, at least I worked my 🤬 off and got most of the use of the arm back after he killed it😬
Anyway... so, I'd find my rhythm with it, but then my other hands would try to go first one time and of course mess me up.
But once he saw me drumming fast on the counter, plus I've been using it as both exercise, physical & mental & getting out aggression with very loud noises no matter how bad i suck at it :)
But, he finally found a place to store his drums to play up with him.... and I realized how much I'd miss being able to do downstairs on a good day when I could walk,, and pound on them😊
So, even though drowning in debt due to my new medical needs, my hubby is an awesome guy and he likes drums too, so we just yesterday got a used 5 piece Tama, but an upgraded snare and good heads. But we need a stool and better cymbals (one day) and cymbal stands, now... for $200... we tried to do as much research as possible but also what we could afford, well, forcefully afford, and what was close-ish.... so hopefully it's a good one😬
But, our son learning on his own 15 yrs ago, yea, he set it up kick straight out and once he added a ton to his kit, its real hard .. I think, but he won't admit🙄😏... to twist so far around to hit that 2nd (3rd?🤷🏻♀️) floor tom. My lower back i all titanium, with many other injuries, so, too hard for me.
But, everyone just said that was the way :/
So, I'm glad to know it doesn't have to be the way.
So... first off...sorry fornthe long comment, but I'm an over-explainer, clearly, and I'm excited/nervous so, babble ensues 😊
Next... does having the kick off to the side affect the sound a lot? I'm guessing no since it works.
We're trying to figure out how to set our up... as I said, I'm a lefty, though I'd gotten used to the toms on my right so that will be an adjustment, but not bad.
But also trying to set it up to somewhat easily flip it for occasionally when my hubby wants to play... so... we'll see :)
I'm not looking to be a pro or anything near, and with my health practice will be as often as possible, so, just learning.
So I appreciate these videos SO much!! Any advice is awesome!!!
Thank you!!😊
5:24
great advice...thank you!
i will be adjusting mt kit.
Let us know what you think of the change! 🙌
@@drumdog ...i made the adjustment..i feel more comfortable after...funny thing is i thought i was comfortable before i moved the bass drum over...but now i realize i had been fighting poor posture...thank you for bringing this to my attention.
So awesome to hear that it's helped you 😁🙏
Watching this video makes me so glad the remote hi hat stand was invented. This is a fantastic guide to setting up a kit to be comfortable, but I hope we won't need it forever. I really think the only reason drum kits are set up the way they are is because of how regular hi hat stands work.
Great lesson, thanks.
Nice jams.
I immediately said "NAW! Not the kick it's the snare!" But that's where you were headed.
It's also the center of the beat! If you can JUST keep the snare (or get it back) on time you can do whatever you want elsewhere.
Fantastic vid
I will give this a try!
I have been setting up this way for years. When I sit in on someone else's kit which has been set up in the "traditional" way -- kick drum facing straight ahead-- I find it rather uncomfortable. Also, I'm in my sixties and I have long standing neck issues. So I find the traditional set limits my view of the right side of the stage. I usually wind up with a very sore neck if I play for any length of time in this position.
I didn't come up with the idea of centering the snare drum so that my body naturally faces straight forward. I read an article dealing with this concept in Modern Drummer Magazine some twenty years ago. I regret I cannot recall the name of the author. But I do remember him calling it the twisted torso problem. Anyway, I tried it and have played that way ever since.
Six years I got an OffSet double pedal. It basically has two slave pedals with the drive shafts meeting in the middle where the beaters are located. This allows the base drum to set up facing the front while still maintaining the snare drum in the middle. It's not as quick to set up as there are three pieces instead of the usual two in a double pedal system. But it's fun to be able to sit in my favourite position and still have the base drum also centered and facing forward so that people can see the artwork on the resonant head.
While I adhere to the mechanics you layer out, as it makes more sense ergonomically, I do keep my bass drum in the center, perpendicular to the stage, as is traditional. It not only looks more symmetrical, it also looks more pleasing and the the two are actually linked here. Because when things are not symmetrical in some way, it tends do be distracting. (Which is why a double kick setup doesn’t phase anyone: two kicks mean symmetry). The other disadvantage (and I know from experience) is that bandmates which see a kit with an angled bass drum as taking up more space in tighter spaces, and they tend to not like it as much. So it’s something to avoid, it possible. As to me, I just pivot to the left so I’m comfortable and it’s ergonomical. And that’s it.
Go ahead with that, leave the Bass perpendicular... but don't follow it.
Yeah, you will be out of perpendicular, not the Base.
Totally agree with this👍🏻
Love that blue set of yours. That first generation of 100% birch stage customs have slightly deeper shells than the current generation and sound fuller imo.
Well said and presented! Nice snare sound and playing, too 🙂.
Very useful thank you very much for your video
I sit straight on the kit..used to sit to the left..but since I have been open drumming it was a natural move..
Good video, good sounds.
I solved the problem with a Offset double pedel. It centers the kick infront of you and allows a symetrical, or partaly symetrical layout. side benifet is no left pedal lag.
This seems like it's going to be a gamechanger.
I´ve been setting my kit this way for almost 20 years, since I´ve see Korn´s David Silvera setting up this way. It feels more confortable not to be facing slightly sidewise, apart from from being aesthetically more pleasant.
Groovy thanks brother
Drum dog! Great vid.
Please let me know, If you would consider doing a review of a new and different way to set up a kit, please let me know. I think I may have something you would really find fascinating.
It’s in some ways similar to Daru Jones, but with some key unique things going on.
Always keen to hear new ideas! 💡 Shoot us a message at hello@drum.dog
Drum ergonomics are very important but it depends on genre a Lil. If your playing light rock then a standard setup is OK. Twist and all. But if your playing metal or punk or something, ergonomics is a must
Not sure I'd agree with you there, I'd say a twist is a bad thing no matter the genre. Even the lightest of playing benefits from a solid and stable core.