My first reaction after seeing Dune was "The Stormlight Archive movie or series that will eventually come out must have the same scale and beauty of DUNE." You could really tell that Denis Villeneuve took DUNE extremely seriously and that's all I want for Stormlight.
Honestly, seeing that Denis Villenueve managed to bring to screen so many of Dune's hard to understand concepts and ideas, the Stormlight Archive might not be so far off. Maybe the technology still needs to be a little bit more advanced to have convincing effects for the lashings and all of that, but it COULD be possible, although we would need people that really know what they are doing, otherwise it could end up being a disaster trying to bring such a huge story to screen
@@cyrussmith4744 What I think will be the hardest thing is condensing down a lot of the things in Stormlight to make it to tv and the fact that you need an insane budget. If the Wheel of Time adaptation does super well and it gets finished, I imagine that there will be a demand for more of something like it and then the Sanderson era where I imagine the first thing will either be a Stormlight Archive adaptation or Mistborn adaptation first.
Honestly, as someone who's not read Dune (it's on my list, and has been for a while), I felt like I understood perfectly what was going on in the movie. Even things said/shown in passing ~like the shields line and then Paul testing it with his knife to make sure it's working properly, the human calculator guys, etc ~ were enough to explain concepts so even a leek could follow along easily. And yes, at the end I too thought the Fremen believed Paul was toying with his opponent because he was hesitant to kill him, not because of his specialized fighting style, but the scene still works perfectly fine. Also, I loved the music! Such an amazing score.
"It's going to be hard for me to not spend 45 minutes gushing about how much I love this movie." *taps progress bar* 1:30/45:48 He barely made the cutoff lol
Dan's looking very distinguished in this one. Regarding Muad'Dib, they weren't calling him that with a weird pronunciation. They called him "Mahdi," the Fremen word for "savior," which is accurate to the book.
I picked up on that too (the director using the word "Mahdi" in the movie), which is now kind of funny to me, considering how careful Brandon was being with regard to Islamic sensibilities and how disappointed Dan was with the lack of overt Bedouin cultural references. If there is a word in the Islamic world that is charged with meaning and symbolism, "Mahdi" is definitely it.....
Valid response--I should have caught that. I think their pronunciation of Harkonnen (which might also be accurate, but different from the way I've always said it) might have thrown me off in this regard.
@@pavelowjohn9167 My only real complaint there (and less a complaint, and more an observation) is that I wished there had been actors representing Bedouin culture--I didn't think they erased the culture. More, it was an odd choice to not use any main actors for the Fremen who would represent that background.
@@BrandSanderson Oh gosh, I did not expect you to respond! That explanation makes total sense to me. I am really looking forward to your Dune review, whenever it's able to be released.
@@BrandSanderson I am in complete agreement with you that it would have been more satisfying to use Arab/Middle Eastern actors to represent the Fremen and to have included more of Herbert's words and phrases that were derived from Arabic and other ME languages (Lisan al Gaib, for instance). Who knows, he may feel a bit bolder and be more faithful to that part of the book in Part 2. I really liked the movie and had no real problems with any of it (my biggest critique is the fact that no one in the far future wears eye protection, apparently. I've been caught in a sand storm in Kuwait and can attest that you definitely need it in that environment). It is most certainly a 10/10 film, can't wait for the sequel (and I also count the 1984 Dune as a guilty pleasure - it's kind of bad, but I can't help but like it, warts and all ....)
I went to see the movie with a bunch of friends that have never read the book. They all loved the movie and their questions afterwards weren't for explanation of what they watched already but rather expansionist questions, looking for more from the universe. What a positive experience
at the 30 minute mark in the movie, Reverend Mother tells Jessica "We have other prospects, if he fails his promise." This says to me that we WILL see Feyd in second movie. NO WAY Rabban could be a potential Kwisatz Haderach.
I am late to watching this, but it made me think of Count Fenring when she said that. He was the failed alternate in the book. Paul could not *see* him. But given he is a very specific sort of minor character, they may do the combo thing of him to Feyd.
All the people I talked with about Dune (who haven't watched it) understood everything perfectly. Most of the things that needed explanation were explained. I heard fans of the book complaining about the film never explaining mentats (or even calling them by their name), but when I asked about them, my friends just went "oh yeah, those guys are like human machine or something right?". I think the film did a great job condensing a sometimes information heavy book into an accessible experience.
Absolutely! I haven't read Dune and it was very obvious that those guys were different from other people and they had super math powers 😁 They used film language to show rather than tell with so much world building and character and political intrigue. I loved it SO MUCH!
My go to answer to my favorite movie of all time is usually Arrival or Your Name, so you guys bringing them up back to back at 6:30 had me doing a double take lol. Was especially not expecting the Your Name shoutout!
Sting's absence was quite noticeable. One of my earliest memories is of seeing Dune and my brothers saying "Whoa, it's Sting!" I somehow knew this was the "free free set them free" guy.
28:00 I haven't read the books, but I thought the abrupt ending was fine, even if it did leave me a little unsatisfied. But I am happy with this, over what most "Part 1" movies do, where it feels like that I just watched a 1-2 hour trailer for the next movie. I was excepting that going into it, but was pleasantly surprised
According to Lynch's biography, you're basically right about how Lynch became attached to Dune, but it wasn't specifically his weirdness that attracted the producers. He was just the hottest young director in or out of Hollywood. The producers just had TONS of money, they got the hottest young director and gave him whatever he needed. Then the producers did the final edit, in which they utterly destroyed the movie. Lynch's cut would have been over 3.5 hours long, and they chopped it down to 100 mins or so. It was to Lynch's benefit, in the end. He'd signed a three film deal with DeLaurentiis and gave him total creative control over the next two movies, which were Blue Velvet and (I think) Wild at Heart.
A shame that Lynch's actual vision was never achieved. Honestly could've been one of the greatest sci-fi films ever produced. Although that would leave a lesser chance for Villeneuve's vision to be achieved. It'd be interesting to see how exactly Dune 1984 would've panned out if Lynch got all creative control on the final cut.
I started reading Dune again recently and I had to reflect on my own criticism of Jessica's emotions early on in the movie. The subtleties in the book between her and Paul would have been impossible to properly convey on the screen in the Bene Gesserit scene. "Jessica's hand went to Paul's shoulder, tightened there. For a heartbeat, fear pulsed through her palm." I personally feel that Denis Villeneuve did a good job lowering the barrier of entry to Frank Herbert's universe, everyone I've talked with that have seen it without reading the book thought it was amazing. I agree with your point on journalists in regards to the white saviour narrative, it's more accurately the effect of the trope. My only criticism after reflection is the pride of Leto, Paul, and Jessica not represented well.
YES on the sound mixing. Super frustrating. And also when Paul overhears the conversation about Kwisatz Haderach - SO important, but you can't hear half of it.
A big thing that I just learned about the bullfighting imagery that was inserted into the early part of Dune is that the name Harkonnen is based on a Finnish word for bull. So grandpa Paulus and the bull is actually foreshadowing that I had no idea existed after 10+ years of reading the series and existing within the fandom. The only thing that I'm really disappointed about getting left out of the movie is a closer look at mentats and why they exist in the first place. I could very easily see many people making it out of the movie without ever even realizing that David Dastmalchian is playing another mentat. I've read in interviews with Stephen McKinley Henderson that claim there was a cut scene after the fall of House Atreides in which Piter and Thufir meet up and talk about their long rivalry, and I wish it could have been kept along with some sort of explanation of the banning of computers. I wish this movie had about 30min more runtime so we could explore the "who's the traitor" plotline and some other stuff like that, but I'm not super worried about it.
I finally got to see this movie, I wanted to take my dad because he loved the book. I've never read it, and I don't think it was difficult to follow. The film language is crystal clear, so exceptional, this is for sure a 10/10 for me. It was fun to share it with a fan of the book for decades.
I love (most of) the Dune books, I loved the David Lynch Dune, and I love this one. I too miss Sting as Feyd. :) I went into the movie with very few preconceptions because I watched the trailers but avoided EVERYTHING else. I knew Jason Momoa was Duncan, but I was oblivious about Kynes. (She did an excellent job!) I’m really hoping that Dune Messiah gets made. It would make an excellent trilogy with parts one and two. But yeah, I think everything past that is just too weird to work as a mainstream movie, and I would like the universe to end on a high note. It took me THREE tries to finish God Emperor, then I went straight to Heretics. That was left unfinished for a long time, and it took me forever to read Chapterhouse, too. I think the visual effects team deserves some serious recognition for the sandworms. It’s epic and menacing, and avoids being too phallic. They created somethingthat felt plausible, as if it could really exist, but still original. Creating a sandworm mouth swallowing the desert that didn’t feel like a Sarlaac ripoff couldn’t have been easy!
No way guys. God Emperor is the best one. It's the culmination of the entire first arc of Dune and the beginning of the second arc! (wish we could have seen the second arc as frank herbert meant it) Top tier political philosophy, its great
The scene with the Gom Jabbar, giving Jessica the line had me thinking about it like this: Jessica may have been saying the words aloud, but I think Paul was saying the words to himself simultaneously; when we see Jessica say the lines, it's cut between her and Paul going through the trial. At the end, the "Only I will remain", you see the effect of the words on Paul's face, which is, in my opinion, what's giving the reverend mother her moment of fright. She knows he's thinking the words, and she believes she's standing in front of the Kwisatz Haderach. Something similar happens when Paul is landing the crippled Ornithopter later in the movie.
One non sci-fi/fantasy person I talked to said he understood this movie way more than The Lord of the Rings movies because unlile the latter, it slowed down enough.
Hold up... Bladerunner 2049 is anything but vapid. Neander Wallace is a Luciferian allegory, a blind man that can only see through the surrogate eyes of his machines, hell bent on expanding humanity into the stars ad infinitum to "take back Eden" by force. That movie is so densely packed with this sort of symbolism, brilliantly nodding toward the religious undertones of it's source material. Yes, it's a very pretty movie, but it's much more substantive than you're giving it credit for, Dan, and I challenge you to an arm wrestling match.
Everyone is pretty human looking on Caladan too, militaristic, sure, but human. The Harkonnen's are very alien, the emissaries for the Spacing Guild are very alien. This is such a good observation, I didn't even connect those dots yet, but there is an inhuman quality to those cultures. People evolved and specialized to the industrial planet Giedi Prime have been transformed by it, similarly the Spacing Guild having specialized in zero gravity have grown less and less "human". Nature keeps us human by sheer force. It's an interesting observation Herbert made over half a century ago.
Showing the shields working through visual, sequential narrative was a stroke of brilliance. I'm so glad they didn't bog the movie down with endless exposition and rather just visualized the physics.
Ridley Scott was originally slated to direct the 80s Dune movie. His brother died and because production on Dune wouldn't start for a while, Scott wanted to move to a more immediate project to cope with his grief. That's how we got Blade Runner. He talks about it in this clip from a behind-the-scenes featurette for Blade Runner: th-cam.com/video/iU5auv6E6iU/w-d-xo.html.
I saw it with my brother, he has the read the book and I haven’t. I was able to follow along and enjoy the movie a lot but knew there were deeper things about it that I was probably missing and that was okay. Both of us loved it and afterward my brother was able to fill me in on all the subtle stuff of the movie from the book. Only big question I had for him afterward was “What’s so important about the girl?”
Haven't scanned the comments to see if someone already mentioned this, but Denis Villeneuve did confirm in an interview that Feyd Rautha would be introduced in part 2
@4:07 I feel the same way as you two. I didn't understand why it was so bad until I watched a documentary that I checked out from the Library, "Jodorowsky's Dune", but even so, I loved the film and wanted more Sci-Fi and Fantacy. I would highly recommend this documentary to anybody who has any feelings at all about the David Lynch Dune. Jodorowsky did all of the work to make a film of Dune, then the studio took his work, cut him out and handed the problem to Lynch, probably for all of the reasons that Brandon described @4:35, except they didn't have to go only on book sales, but on having the groundwork done by Jodorowsky. My biggest lament, after watching that documentary is that I wish I could see the movie that Jodorowsky wanted to make. I think we all would have loved it even more.
Have you read Dune? Jodorowsky still hasn't... "Jodorowsky's Dune" wouldn't have been Dune at all! It would have been a weird creation out of his own mind Don't get me wrong, I like his weirdness, and I'm a fan of his "Meta Barons" and "The Incal". But his "Dune" would have been crap, seen from a book fans pov.
It has been a few years, but yes, I have read the first 5 books, making Heretics of Dune the last one that I read. My understanding is that Jodorowsky did read Dune. He just didn't read it until after he decided to take the project. If you must be a purist and nothing but the book is good enough, I might suggest that you stick to the books and leave the films alone. The film will never be the book and you already have the book. so leave it at that. If, on the other hand, you want something that will take from the book and make something that you can enjoy, that makes you think in a new way, or any number of other things that you look for from your entertainment, then the films may be a good supplement to the books. The fact is that Lynch's work was based off of what Jodorowsky had made a start to. If Jodorowsky was so misguided, Lynch's work would have been doomed before it started. If you find that you can like wat Lynch created, you have to accept that the work it was based on was viable. Jodorowsky may not have made a better film. Since he didn't make it at all, we will never know. From the presentation in the documentary, it seems that it would have been better than what we had. Still, as I said in my original comment, I was glad to have what I did, and wanted more than had been produced at the time.
I don't like what Lynch created. But even then, it was a hell lot better than what Jodorowsky was planning with his storyline according to that documentary!
A couple notes but I largely agree with both Brandon and Dan on Dune! I think the movie should have been in 3 parts though so they could expand some of the subplots more. The first would have ended with the escape of Paul and Jessica to the desert. The second movie would be them starting in the desert and then becoming part of the Fremen. Then the third movie would be the jihad ending with the knife fight and Paul as emperor.
I also would love to play the Dune RPG!! I’m a GM normally but love playing as well. How many sessions are you thinking of doing? I imagine you’ll get hundreds of requests lol
Melhor programa de todos! Henrique e Juliano, simplesmente os melhores! Não é apenas questão de voz, fama, sucesso, talento...É muito amor e autenticidade envolvidos! Eles realmente são diferenciados! Amooo!!!
I loved this podcast. Especially with Brandon Sanderson; a writer whom I admire. Beautiful conversation and I agree with that of David Lynch, an unintelligible film, but we appreciate it being there. Greetings from Argentina.
SO glad Brandon recognizes the split in middle of the book was right. Paul’s initial arc of discovering his calling is fulfilled in the first half. Also, the Atreides experience of betrayal is complete in its arc. Perfect point in story to split movies.
16:44 ha, I was thinking exactly the same thing at the same time - how didn´t they had the conversation "hey could you make a guardians of the galaxy ripp off?"
For the record, the book *Dune* by Frank Herbert contains 34 occurrences of the word "jihad." At least, that is what Kindle for the PC tells me. A number of those references are connected to the Butlerian Jihad (which was what got rid of thinking machines).
I remember in the late 90s the sci fi channel had a promo for Dune and the movie announcer guy says "Welcome to Arrakis, where combat is the Spice of life".
Thank you, Brandon! This made me look up at my copies of Dune on my bookshelf, and realise the cats had climbed it, and all the Dune books were about a minute from falling off.
I can't wait for Brandon's Dune review!!!! Dune is my favorite book of all time and Villeneuve is my favorite director so this movie was such a once in a lifetime experience for me. I can't wait for part 2.
6:10 WAIT he did Arrival too??? No wonder I loved that movie as much as I loved Blade Runner: 2049. I guess I should be paying more attention to who directs the movies I love. 😆
6:02 Please go watch Hello Future Me's video essay about Blade Runner: 2049 and you will understand why I ADORE that movie. So much. I cried my eyes out over the ending and I couldn't explain why until I watched Hello Future Me's essay. Please go watch it. It just might change the way you see that movie.
I SO love new Dune, it's such an immersion in the universe. Even though I don't like what they did with Harkonnens, and miss some scenes from the book (the dinner scene, YES, I also adore it, it's so great), I absolutely dig the atmosphere, I felt so damn high when I watched it and I still am every time I watch it again. By the way, the thing about Paul hearing Jamis's voice is a REALLY great thing, because in the book, there's a belief among freemen that Jamis intentionally let Paul kill him and thus was ranked among saints, and using this in the movie made me just so damn like "OH! OH! YES! THAT'S DAMN RIGHT!"
It was one of my favorite books of all time. I have read all of them and you should know, they end well. Duncan Idaho is the best part and they did him justice in the movie.
The book doesn't end where it does because it then jumps into the future. We still have the Water of Life ceremony and Paul's sister Alia being born. I think it ends where it does because it shows the point at which Paul goes ALL IN with the Fremen. They show so much of Caladan to show us that he has given up all this - his past life, heritage, and identity - and becomes Fremen.
I loved the movie so much. I knew nothing about Dune going into it. I was so engrossed that when the movie was about to end I thought we were only half way through lol 2.5 hours never went by so fast.
Dune is hands down one of my favorite books and this movie was just incredible. I would love to see Feyd in part 2. I think he is important to the story as that opposite to Paul as you both talked about. I also kind of hope that they at least give the Emporer and his daughter an appearance. We named our daughter Irulan and I'd love it if she got a chance to see that character in one of the newer movies when she is older.
The arc I missed seeing was the one between Jessica and Leto. They didn't much explore their feelings for one another, their marriage (or lack there of), and the whole business of the Harkonnen seeding the idea that Jessica is the traitor and Leto pretending to believe it in order to protect her and play them for fools. I understand you need to make concessions and trim the book down, but that would have made the loss of Leto that much harder to swallow. Considering the Duke is here for only a single movie, might as well give him fore focus.
I'm saying this because you might appreciate the perspective of a muslim woman on this, I didn't think there was a muslim culture erasure problem in the movie. The Fremen were still recognizably inspired by muslims, not only in how they dress and talk but also in how they behave. And I think it was pretty succesful at doing this without making it seem stereotypical. Also I'm glad they didn't go as far as the book does when it comes to this subject, because like you said, I don't think the book is completely innocent there. I'm really happy they left out the word "Jihad", for example. This is the kind of movie that's bound to be misunderstood by a lot of people and leaving such a buzz word out of it will help with that in the future. However I agree with the point about casting some middle eastern actors. Having black,white and asian people together might mean diversity in the Americas but I think they can sometimes forget that a huge part of the world doesn't identify with any of those 3 words. Also I think we will have Feyd Rautha in part 2, if I remember correctly Villeneuve even said so.
I wouldn't call the Fremen a "muslim" people/culture. Remember that the events in Dune are supposed to take place over 20k years in the future. The Fremen are decendents of the Zensunni wanderers (a mixture of future Budhist, Christian and Islamic culture). Also, if you have a knowledge of Arabic you would know that it isn't really used gramatically or contextually correct in Frank Herbert's "Duniverse". Which doesn't really matter, since it is set so far into the future that it is logical to assume that also languages change. So I really don't see the criticism of either "whitewashing" or "stereotyping".
@@eddiepolo6047 So in your opinion, any story that takes place in a different reality/time are completely insignificant and unrelated to our own reality and our time because "it's not real"? So I guess we shouldn't even discuss this book and what it's trying to say because it's not real, right? Let's say there's this sci-fi story that happens in a made up planet, and on this planet only pink and yellow people live. And yellow people tend to think that the pink ones are less deserving of human rights because of their color, and when you look at the events of the book the actions of the yellow people reflect this belief of theirs. So, in your opinion, I guess we can't say that this movie is about racism because they're not black and white people, right? Even though there are obvious parallels between the racism in our world and in this made up world?
No, that is not what I'm saying. Frank Herbert was, aside from the dunes in Oregon, obviously also inspired by Lawrence of Arabia, the colonial history of the middle east, and his travels in the region. But his story takes place in a world were "old earth" is forgotten, and the world of man have had 20k years of evolution. So for example criticizing the movie for not having arabic people in its leading roles makes no sense in this context.
Dan telling a bout bullfighters bove also gave me chills. Devil is in the details, I am waiting for cinemas to open up again to see Dune one more time, as a refresher.
Actually, Duncan as a Ghola is a very important character in each of the following books. So if he does get around to Dune Messiah, Jason could very well be returning for a Dune Messiah and Children of Dune adaptations.
I am a DUNE 1984 fan and was full of fear Hollywood would blow it with this remake, but they managed to hit it out of the park. The one thing I truly missed in this movie was the Weirding Way with weapons, although, I realize they were not in the book.
After watching some of the reaction videos, I'm convinced that everything happening in the movie is explained sufficiently for anyone that's paying attention.
I do kind of see what you're saying with regards to Lady Jessica, but I think they went several steps too far. With the single solitary exception of the scene when they're in the thopter with the Harokonnen soldiers, she comes off as a helpless, weepy woman. That's about as far from her character in the novel as possible.
My wife picked up on that right away (she read the book a while ago and is re-reading it now). I think her exact quote was "Wow, I remember Paul's mom being a lot more formidable than that".
Is Dan talking about the 2d20 DUNE rpg that Mordiphius just published? I was part of the play-test for that system and it....is interesting and fun, but definitely requires an experienced GM and experienced players and probably needs some tweaking and house-rules to make it actually playable as anything beyond a one-shot.
I haven't read Dune yet, but I loved the movie. I definitely didn't struggle to keep up with what was going on, but I also love movies that tell me nothing. It's definitely my favorite movie from recent years and I am 100% going to read it!
I was thinking: Who is this cool guy who chats with Brandon Sanderson? Hmm... Dan Wells... oh wow he wrote "I Am Not a Serial Killer"? I loved that movie! I'll have to hunt out some more of his books.
My first reaction after seeing Dune was "The Stormlight Archive movie or series that will eventually come out must have the same scale and beauty of DUNE." You could really tell that Denis Villeneuve took DUNE extremely seriously and that's all I want for Stormlight.
Honestly, seeing that Denis Villenueve managed to bring to screen so many of Dune's hard to understand concepts and ideas, the Stormlight Archive might not be so far off. Maybe the technology still needs to be a little bit more advanced to have convincing effects for the lashings and all of that, but it COULD be possible, although we would need people that really know what they are doing, otherwise it could end up being a disaster trying to bring such a huge story to screen
@@cyrussmith4744 What I think will be the hardest thing is condensing down a lot of the things in Stormlight to make it to tv and the fact that you need an insane budget. If the Wheel of Time adaptation does super well and it gets finished, I imagine that there will be a demand for more of something like it and then the Sanderson era where I imagine the first thing will either be a Stormlight Archive adaptation or Mistborn adaptation first.
Like 8 to 10 episodes could work, you just need a very good showrunner who knows what specifically to keep and cut out.
First experience I want on screen for SA is Szeth's assassination. I think that would make the best trailer.
Hit the nail on the head
Honestly, as someone who's not read Dune (it's on my list, and has been for a while), I felt like I understood perfectly what was going on in the movie. Even things said/shown in passing ~like the shields line and then Paul testing it with his knife to make sure it's working properly, the human calculator guys, etc ~ were enough to explain concepts so even a leek could follow along easily. And yes, at the end I too thought the Fremen believed Paul was toying with his opponent because he was hesitant to kill him, not because of his specialized fighting style, but the scene still works perfectly fine.
Also, I loved the music! Such an amazing score.
"It's going to be hard for me to not spend 45 minutes gushing about how much I love this movie."
*taps progress bar*
1:30/45:48
He barely made the cutoff lol
Dan's looking very distinguished in this one. Regarding Muad'Dib, they weren't calling him that with a weird pronunciation. They called him "Mahdi," the Fremen word for "savior," which is accurate to the book.
I picked up on that too (the director using the word "Mahdi" in the movie), which is now kind of funny to me, considering how careful Brandon was being with regard to Islamic sensibilities and how disappointed Dan was with the lack of overt Bedouin cultural references. If there is a word in the Islamic world that is charged with meaning and symbolism, "Mahdi" is definitely it.....
Valid response--I should have caught that. I think their pronunciation of Harkonnen (which might also be accurate, but different from the way I've always said it) might have thrown me off in this regard.
@@pavelowjohn9167 My only real complaint there (and less a complaint, and more an observation) is that I wished there had been actors representing Bedouin culture--I didn't think they erased the culture. More, it was an odd choice to not use any main actors for the Fremen who would represent that background.
@@BrandSanderson Oh gosh, I did not expect you to respond! That explanation makes total sense to me. I am really looking forward to your Dune review, whenever it's able to be released.
@@BrandSanderson I am in complete agreement with you that it would have been more satisfying to use Arab/Middle Eastern actors to represent the Fremen and to have included more of Herbert's words and phrases that were derived from Arabic and other ME languages (Lisan al Gaib, for instance). Who knows, he may feel a bit bolder and be more faithful to that part of the book in Part 2.
I really liked the movie and had no real problems with any of it (my biggest critique is the fact that no one in the far future wears eye protection, apparently. I've been caught in a sand storm in Kuwait and can attest that you definitely need it in that environment). It is most certainly a 10/10 film, can't wait for the sequel (and I also count the 1984 Dune as a guilty pleasure - it's kind of bad, but I can't help but like it, warts and all ....)
I went to see the movie with a bunch of friends that have never read the book. They all loved the movie and their questions afterwards weren't for explanation of what they watched already but rather expansionist questions, looking for more from the universe. What a positive experience
I've never read the book or watched Lynch's movie. I've been watching expansionist videos ever since 😆
at the 30 minute mark in the movie, Reverend Mother tells Jessica "We have other prospects, if he fails his promise." This says to me that we WILL see Feyd in second movie. NO WAY Rabban could be a potential Kwisatz Haderach.
Maybe talking about her being pregnant?
I'll admit, the more I think about it, the more a stretch this would be.
I am late to watching this, but it made me think of Count Fenring when she said that. He was the failed alternate in the book. Paul could not *see* him. But given he is a very specific sort of minor character, they may do the combo thing of him to Feyd.
All the people I talked with about Dune (who haven't watched it) understood everything perfectly. Most of the things that needed explanation were explained. I heard fans of the book complaining about the film never explaining mentats (or even calling them by their name), but when I asked about them, my friends just went "oh yeah, those guys are like human machine or something right?". I think the film did a great job condensing a sometimes information heavy book into an accessible experience.
Absolutely! I haven't read Dune and it was very obvious that those guys were different from other people and they had super math powers 😁
They used film language to show rather than tell with so much world building and character and political intrigue.
I loved it SO MUCH!
I thought it was a shame that they never discussed Paul being trained as a mentat.
My go to answer to my favorite movie of all time is usually Arrival or Your Name, so you guys bringing them up back to back at 6:30 had me doing a double take lol. Was especially not expecting the Your Name shoutout!
Right? Such good movies
Sting's absence was quite noticeable.
One of my earliest memories is of seeing Dune and my brothers saying "Whoa, it's Sting!" I somehow knew this was the "free free set them free" guy.
Javier Bardem KILLED IT as Stilgar. He was so good.
this aged so well, considering Butler's outstanding performance
28:00 I haven't read the books, but I thought the abrupt ending was fine, even if it did leave me a little unsatisfied. But I am happy with this, over what most "Part 1" movies do, where it feels like that I just watched a 1-2 hour trailer for the next movie. I was excepting that going into it, but was pleasantly surprised
According to Lynch's biography, you're basically right about how Lynch became attached to Dune, but it wasn't specifically his weirdness that attracted the producers. He was just the hottest young director in or out of Hollywood. The producers just had TONS of money, they got the hottest young director and gave him whatever he needed. Then the producers did the final edit, in which they utterly destroyed the movie. Lynch's cut would have been over 3.5 hours long, and they chopped it down to 100 mins or so.
It was to Lynch's benefit, in the end. He'd signed a three film deal with DeLaurentiis and gave him total creative control over the next two movies, which were Blue Velvet and (I think) Wild at Heart.
A shame that Lynch's actual vision was never achieved. Honestly could've been one of the greatest sci-fi films ever produced. Although that would leave a lesser chance for Villeneuve's vision to be achieved. It'd be interesting to see how exactly Dune 1984 would've panned out if Lynch got all creative control on the final cut.
I started reading Dune again recently and I had to reflect on my own criticism of Jessica's emotions early on in the movie. The subtleties in the book between her and Paul would have been impossible to properly convey on the screen in the Bene Gesserit scene. "Jessica's hand went to Paul's shoulder, tightened there. For a heartbeat, fear pulsed through her palm." I personally feel that Denis Villeneuve did a good job lowering the barrier of entry to Frank Herbert's universe, everyone I've talked with that have seen it without reading the book thought it was amazing. I agree with your point on journalists in regards to the white saviour narrative, it's more accurately the effect of the trope. My only criticism after reflection is the pride of Leto, Paul, and Jessica not represented well.
YES on the sound mixing. Super frustrating. And also when Paul overhears the conversation about Kwisatz Haderach - SO important, but you can't hear half of it.
A big thing that I just learned about the bullfighting imagery that was inserted into the early part of Dune is that the name Harkonnen is based on a Finnish word for bull. So grandpa Paulus and the bull is actually foreshadowing that I had no idea existed after 10+ years of reading the series and existing within the fandom.
The only thing that I'm really disappointed about getting left out of the movie is a closer look at mentats and why they exist in the first place. I could very easily see many people making it out of the movie without ever even realizing that David Dastmalchian is playing another mentat. I've read in interviews with Stephen McKinley Henderson that claim there was a cut scene after the fall of House Atreides in which Piter and Thufir meet up and talk about their long rivalry, and I wish it could have been kept along with some sort of explanation of the banning of computers. I wish this movie had about 30min more runtime so we could explore the "who's the traitor" plotline and some other stuff like that, but I'm not super worried about it.
I finally got to see this movie, I wanted to take my dad because he loved the book.
I've never read it, and I don't think it was difficult to follow. The film language is crystal clear, so exceptional, this is for sure a 10/10 for me. It was fun to share it with a fan of the book for decades.
I could listen to you two talk about Dune for hours.
I love (most of) the Dune books, I loved the David Lynch Dune, and I love this one. I too miss Sting as Feyd. :)
I went into the movie with very few preconceptions because I watched the trailers but avoided EVERYTHING else. I knew Jason Momoa was Duncan, but I was oblivious about Kynes. (She did an excellent job!)
I’m really hoping that Dune Messiah gets made. It would make an excellent trilogy with parts one and two. But yeah, I think everything past that is just too weird to work as a mainstream movie, and I would like the universe to end on a high note.
It took me THREE tries to finish God Emperor, then I went straight to Heretics. That was left unfinished for a long time, and it took me forever to read Chapterhouse, too.
I think the visual effects team deserves some serious recognition for the sandworms. It’s epic and menacing, and avoids being too phallic. They created somethingthat felt plausible, as if it could really exist, but still original. Creating a sandworm mouth swallowing the desert that didn’t feel like a Sarlaac ripoff couldn’t have been easy!
I do think that the rest could work as a tv series, although the production quality dip will probably be noticeable.
I'm astonished someone could love Arrival and hate BR2049. That film is out of this world.
45:00
President of sand planet
Includes:
Sand snake suit
Spicy meringue
Quart of sand
I want that costume so badly lol.
😆😆
My favorite part of this review was the fact that neither of them can pronounce Villeneuve's name either.
No way guys. God Emperor is the best one. It's the culmination of the entire first arc of Dune and the beginning of the second arc! (wish we could have seen the second arc as frank herbert meant it) Top tier political philosophy, its great
I couldn’t believe their reaction to God Emperor! Hands down best in the series. My favorite book of all time.
Absolutely agree
Doing Dune Messiah as the third movie makes sense. Completes Paul's arc that way.
To add to the bull fight formula, we also see Gurney do the same move to Paul in the training scene the first time Paul lunges at him.
woooow I never would've made the connection between the fight at the end of the movie and bull fighting. amazing detail
The scene with the Gom Jabbar, giving Jessica the line had me thinking about it like this: Jessica may have been saying the words aloud, but I think Paul was saying the words to himself simultaneously; when we see Jessica say the lines, it's cut between her and Paul going through the trial. At the end, the "Only I will remain", you see the effect of the words on Paul's face, which is, in my opinion, what's giving the reverend mother her moment of fright. She knows he's thinking the words, and she believes she's standing in front of the Kwisatz Haderach.
Something similar happens when Paul is landing the crippled Ornithopter later in the movie.
SPOILER:
The Fear Litany is a Bene Gesserit mantra. Jessica taught it to Paul, so I didn't mind her saying it. I do wish he would have said it though.
One non sci-fi/fantasy person I talked to said he understood this movie way more than The Lord of the Rings movies because unlile the latter, it slowed down enough.
Hold up... Bladerunner 2049 is anything but vapid. Neander Wallace is a Luciferian allegory, a blind man that can only see through the surrogate eyes of his machines, hell bent on expanding humanity into the stars ad infinitum to "take back Eden" by force. That movie is so densely packed with this sort of symbolism, brilliantly nodding toward the religious undertones of it's source material. Yes, it's a very pretty movie, but it's much more substantive than you're giving it credit for, Dan, and I challenge you to an arm wrestling match.
Everyone is pretty human looking on Caladan too, militaristic, sure, but human. The Harkonnen's are very alien, the emissaries for the Spacing Guild are very alien. This is such a good observation, I didn't even connect those dots yet, but there is an inhuman quality to those cultures. People evolved and specialized to the industrial planet Giedi Prime have been transformed by it, similarly the Spacing Guild having specialized in zero gravity have grown less and less "human". Nature keeps us human by sheer force. It's an interesting observation Herbert made over half a century ago.
Showing the shields working through visual, sequential narrative was a stroke of brilliance. I'm so glad they didn't bog the movie down with endless exposition and rather just visualized the physics.
Oh man... the bull fight thing. I never would have caught that. Brilliant.
Completely agree on BR2049
@@aaryanbhardwaj40 I’m glad to hear it!
I don’t believe Paul ever gets the name Maud’dib. He should get both names when they reach Sietch Tabr.
You’re right. They did show the Maud’dib desert mouse a few times though.
Mind blown on the bullfight connection on the Jamis fight. I'm even more sad now that we have to wait till next year for Part II.
Ridley Scott was originally slated to direct the 80s Dune movie. His brother died and because production on Dune wouldn't start for a while, Scott wanted to move to a more immediate project to cope with his grief. That's how we got Blade Runner. He talks about it in this clip from a behind-the-scenes featurette for Blade Runner: th-cam.com/video/iU5auv6E6iU/w-d-xo.html.
Wow
"Oh yeah, we gonna spoil this one." 🙂
Awesome 👍
I saw it with my brother, he has the read the book and I haven’t. I was able to follow along and enjoy the movie a lot but knew there were deeper things about it that I was probably missing and that was okay. Both of us loved it and afterward my brother was able to fill me in on all the subtle stuff of the movie from the book. Only big question I had for him afterward was “What’s so important about the girl?”
Hey dudes. They didn't say muadib yet actually. That was "Mahdi" which I believe is a middle east religious term.
Cheers!
My daughter is 16, never read Dune. I asked if she understood what was happening, she told me she did, and that she really enjoyed the movie.
I never expected Your Name to be mentioned in the same conversation as frigging Dune, but now that I think about it?
I'm glad it did XD
I believe they do acknowledge the mouse in the hologram scene with the hunter seeker. Love the pod as always
Did I just hear Dan call the new bladerunner "vapid" ... bruh the fk. Literally one of the best movies ever made
Haven't scanned the comments to see if someone already mentioned this, but Denis Villeneuve did confirm in an interview that Feyd Rautha would be introduced in part 2
@4:07 I feel the same way as you two. I didn't understand why it was so bad until I watched a documentary that I checked out from the Library, "Jodorowsky's Dune", but even so, I loved the film and wanted more Sci-Fi and Fantacy. I would highly recommend this documentary to anybody who has any feelings at all about the David Lynch Dune. Jodorowsky did all of the work to make a film of Dune, then the studio took his work, cut him out and handed the problem to Lynch, probably for all of the reasons that Brandon described @4:35, except they didn't have to go only on book sales, but on having the groundwork done by Jodorowsky. My biggest lament, after watching that documentary is that I wish I could see the movie that Jodorowsky wanted to make. I think we all would have loved it even more.
Have you read Dune?
Jodorowsky still hasn't...
"Jodorowsky's Dune" wouldn't have been Dune at all!
It would have been a weird creation out of his own mind
Don't get me wrong, I like his weirdness, and I'm a fan of his "Meta Barons" and "The Incal".
But his "Dune" would have been crap, seen from a book fans pov.
It has been a few years, but yes, I have read the first 5 books, making Heretics of Dune the last one that I read.
My understanding is that Jodorowsky did read Dune. He just didn't read it until after he decided to take the project.
If you must be a purist and nothing but the book is good enough, I might suggest that you stick to the books and leave the films alone. The film will never be the book and you already have the book. so leave it at that. If, on the other hand, you want something that will take from the book and make something that you can enjoy, that makes you think in a new way, or any number of other things that you look for from your entertainment, then the films may be a good supplement to the books.
The fact is that Lynch's work was based off of what Jodorowsky had made a start to. If Jodorowsky was so misguided, Lynch's work would have been doomed before it started. If you find that you can like wat Lynch created, you have to accept that the work it was based on was viable.
Jodorowsky may not have made a better film. Since he didn't make it at all, we will never know. From the presentation in the documentary, it seems that it would have been better than what we had. Still, as I said in my original comment, I was glad to have what I did, and wanted more than had been produced at the time.
I don't like what Lynch created.
But even then, it was a hell lot better than what Jodorowsky was planning with his storyline according to that documentary!
Paul was also mouthing the litany against fear alongside Jessica.
10/10 review. Would watch again just for the outro.
A couple notes but I largely agree with both Brandon and Dan on Dune!
I think the movie should have been in 3 parts though so they could expand some of the subplots more. The first would have ended with the escape of Paul and Jessica to the desert. The second movie would be them starting in the desert and then becoming part of the Fremen. Then the third movie would be the jihad ending with the knife fight and Paul as emperor.
I also would love to play the Dune RPG!! I’m a GM normally but love playing as well. How many sessions are you thinking of doing? I imagine you’ll get hundreds of requests lol
I idea that 2049 being vapid is so just no, its the only time ive been left speechless after a film
Agreed. It's one of my all-time favorite movies.
Same. Also one of my all time favorites.
Melhor programa de todos! Henrique e Juliano, simplesmente os melhores! Não é apenas questão de voz, fama, sucesso, talento...É muito amor e autenticidade envolvidos! Eles realmente são diferenciados! Amooo!!!
I loved this podcast. Especially with Brandon Sanderson; a writer whom I admire.
Beautiful conversation and I agree with that of David Lynch, an unintelligible film, but we appreciate it being there.
Greetings from Argentina.
The dinner scene was cut but I hope we get to see it some day
SO glad Brandon recognizes the split in middle of the book was right.
Paul’s initial arc of discovering his calling is fulfilled in the first half. Also, the Atreides experience of betrayal is complete in its arc.
Perfect point in story to split movies.
16:44 ha, I was thinking exactly the same thing at the same time - how didn´t they had the conversation "hey could you make a guardians of the galaxy ripp off?"
For the record, the book *Dune* by Frank Herbert contains 34 occurrences of the word "jihad." At least, that is what Kindle for the PC tells me. A number of those references are connected to the Butlerian Jihad (which was what got rid of thinking machines).
I remember in the late 90s the sci fi channel had a promo for Dune and the movie announcer guy says "Welcome to Arrakis, where combat is the Spice of life".
You pronounce it like Denee Villaynoo. Yes, Arrival is one of the best movies I'd seen in the last ten years. Also on a flight.
Thank you, Brandon!
This made me look up at my copies of Dune on my bookshelf, and realise the cats had climbed it, and all the Dune books were about a minute from falling off.
I can't wait for Brandon's Dune review!!!! Dune is my favorite book of all time and Villeneuve is my favorite director so this movie was such a once in a lifetime experience for me. I can't wait for part 2.
6:10 WAIT he did Arrival too??? No wonder I loved that movie as much as I loved Blade Runner: 2049. I guess I should be paying more attention to who directs the movies I love. 😆
6:02 Please go watch Hello Future Me's video essay about Blade Runner: 2049 and you will understand why I ADORE that movie. So much.
I cried my eyes out over the ending and I couldn't explain why until I watched Hello Future Me's essay. Please go watch it. It just might change the way you see that movie.
I think they are 100% bringing Feyd into the second movie.
That look in 25:30, Brandon definitely was thinking about Hoid.
I went with a bunch of people and neither of them knew what any of Dune was about. And I think we got most of it.
35:24 I believe they actually used "Crusade" in one of the trailers.
I'd love to see Brandon check out Arcane and review it or analyze it.
I'd love to see mistborn done by the company that did the graphics for arcane
Same!
I was listening to this for thirty minutes and just realized that Brandon was writing signatures the entire time.
I SO love new Dune, it's such an immersion in the universe. Even though I don't like what they did with Harkonnens, and miss some scenes from the book (the dinner scene, YES, I also adore it, it's so great), I absolutely dig the atmosphere, I felt so damn high when I watched it and I still am every time I watch it again.
By the way, the thing about Paul hearing Jamis's voice is a REALLY great thing, because in the book, there's a belief among freemen that Jamis intentionally let Paul kill him and thus was ranked among saints, and using this in the movie made me just so damn like "OH! OH! YES! THAT'S DAMN RIGHT!"
Saw Hans Zimmer in concert where be played several Dune songs, including the singer. Goosebumps. Dont sleep on the soundtracks.
There was a moment of comic relive, when Paul spoke to Duncan in the hangar - and the mentats came very short, but else it was very very good
It was one of my favorite books of all time. I have read all of them and you should know, they end well. Duncan Idaho is the best part and they did him justice in the movie.
The book doesn't end where it does because it then jumps into the future. We still have the Water of Life ceremony and Paul's sister Alia being born. I think it ends where it does because it shows the point at which Paul goes ALL IN with the Fremen. They show so much of Caladan to show us that he has given up all this - his past life, heritage, and identity - and becomes Fremen.
Oh, I thought they were talking about the sword Sting
I loved the movie so much. I knew nothing about Dune going into it. I was so engrossed that when the movie was about to end I thought we were only half way through lol 2.5 hours never went by so fast.
Dune is hands down one of my favorite books and this movie was just incredible. I would love to see Feyd in part 2. I think he is important to the story as that opposite to Paul as you both talked about. I also kind of hope that they at least give the Emporer and his daughter an appearance. We named our daughter Irulan and I'd love it if she got a chance to see that character in one of the newer movies when she is older.
Love the new “how’s that Ben” is sticking around. Have you considered “how’s that Ben as a title
5:44 Definitely connoisseur of French literature talking there.
Hmmm, how to write Denis Villeneuve phonetically... De-knee Veal Nerve? Please feel free to reply with better suggestions (slash corrections)
The arc I missed seeing was the one between Jessica and Leto. They didn't much explore their feelings for one another, their marriage (or lack there of), and the whole business of the Harkonnen seeding the idea that Jessica is the traitor and Leto pretending to believe it in order to protect her and play them for fools. I understand you need to make concessions and trim the book down, but that would have made the loss of Leto that much harder to swallow. Considering the Duke is here for only a single movie, might as well give him fore focus.
Too much shade towards God Emperor here. I love that book. Mind you it's like 30% story and 70% philosophy, but still a great book.
"Have Sting play him, you cowards." Fin.
Hard disagree with Blade Runner 2049 being in any way vapid. I found it just as loaded with ideas and emotions as something like Arrival.
I'm saying this because you might appreciate the perspective of a muslim woman on this, I didn't think there was a muslim culture erasure problem in the movie. The Fremen were still recognizably inspired by muslims, not only in how they dress and talk but also in how they behave. And I think it was pretty succesful at doing this without making it seem stereotypical. Also I'm glad they didn't go as far as the book does when it comes to this subject, because like you said, I don't think the book is completely innocent there. I'm really happy they left out the word "Jihad", for example. This is the kind of movie that's bound to be misunderstood by a lot of people and leaving such a buzz word out of it will help with that in the future.
However I agree with the point about casting some middle eastern actors. Having black,white and asian people together might mean diversity in the Americas but I think they can sometimes forget that a huge part of the world doesn't identify with any of those 3 words.
Also I think we will have Feyd Rautha in part 2, if I remember correctly Villeneuve even said so.
I wouldn't call the Fremen a "muslim" people/culture.
Remember that the events in Dune are supposed to take place over 20k years in the future.
The Fremen are decendents of the Zensunni wanderers (a mixture of future Budhist, Christian and Islamic culture).
Also, if you have a knowledge of Arabic you would know that it isn't really used gramatically or contextually correct in Frank Herbert's "Duniverse".
Which doesn't really matter, since it is set so far into the future that it is logical to assume that also languages change.
So I really don't see the criticism of either "whitewashing" or "stereotyping".
@@eddiepolo6047 So in your opinion, any story that takes place in a different reality/time are completely insignificant and unrelated to our own reality and our time because "it's not real"? So I guess we shouldn't even discuss this book and what it's trying to say because it's not real, right? Let's say there's this sci-fi story that happens in a made up planet, and on this planet only pink and yellow people live. And yellow people tend to think that the pink ones are less deserving of human rights because of their color, and when you look at the events of the book the actions of the yellow people reflect this belief of theirs. So, in your opinion, I guess we can't say that this movie is about racism because they're not black and white people, right? Even though there are obvious parallels between the racism in our world and in this made up world?
No, that is not what I'm saying.
Frank Herbert was, aside from the dunes in Oregon, obviously also inspired by Lawrence of Arabia, the colonial history of the middle east, and his travels in the region.
But his story takes place in a world were "old earth" is forgotten, and the world of man have had 20k years of evolution.
So for example criticizing the movie for not having arabic people in its leading roles makes no sense in this context.
@@eddiepolo6047 if the fictional people in question are obviously inspired by Arabic people and resemble them highly, then it makes perfect sense.
Dan telling a bout bullfighters bove also gave me chills. Devil is in the details, I am waiting for cinemas to open up again to see Dune one more time, as a refresher.
Actually, Duncan as a Ghola is a very important character in each of the following books. So if he does get around to Dune Messiah, Jason could very well be returning for a Dune Messiah and Children of Dune adaptations.
"How's that Ben?" ..... 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
I am a DUNE 1984 fan and was full of fear Hollywood would blow it with this remake, but they managed to hit it out of the park. The one thing I truly missed in this movie was the Weirding Way with weapons, although, I realize they were not in the book.
After watching some of the reaction videos, I'm convinced that everything happening in the movie is explained sufficiently for anyone that's paying attention.
I spent nearly an hour waiting for the "god emperor of dune" joke. worth it
Did you watch only murders in the building? It's great Sting content
I do kind of see what you're saying with regards to Lady Jessica, but I think they went several steps too far. With the single solitary exception of the scene when they're in the thopter with the Harokonnen soldiers, she comes off as a helpless, weepy woman. That's about as far from her character in the novel as possible.
My wife picked up on that right away (she read the book a while ago and is re-reading it now). I think her exact quote was "Wow, I remember Paul's mom being a lot more formidable than that".
Maybe it’s nostalgia, but I still love the Sci-fi miniseries version.
It was fun to watch you two discuss Dune.
This movie was sooooooo good! I watched it with two of my friends who don't really read anything and they followed it just fine
10/10 just for the epic quotes from gurney halleck
Is Dan talking about the 2d20 DUNE rpg that Mordiphius just published? I was part of the play-test for that system and it....is interesting and fun, but definitely requires an experienced GM and experienced players and probably needs some tweaking and house-rules to make it actually playable as anything beyond a one-shot.
I watched the old Dune with my dad and half the time it was just him fangirling about Sting 😂. I’m excited for this episode now.
Love “Your Name.”
I haven't read Dune yet, but I loved the movie. I definitely didn't struggle to keep up with what was going on, but I also love movies that tell me nothing. It's definitely my favorite movie from recent years and I am 100% going to read it!
15:10 what a fantastic observation!
and the bullfight observation! WOW!!!!
Thanks for this discussion, I love it
Kaladin, Caladan. Coincidence?
I was thinking: Who is this cool guy who chats with Brandon Sanderson? Hmm... Dan Wells... oh wow he wrote "I Am Not a Serial Killer"? I loved that movie! I'll have to hunt out some more of his books.